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Bonds to sign with the A's?

Front page material from the SF Chronicle. Written by Susan Slusser, no less. An earth-shattering move by the A's if so. Bonds is an unpopular personality right now. Then there's this pending appearance at the Federal Courts in SF tomorrow. Makes it a real headache. But Billy Beane, ever the genius, believes he can sort thru this madness and the team can come out a winner with this signing. If it ever happens.

Star-divide

Update [2007-12-7 1:34:31 by arch]: As much of a freak show Bonds is, we have to admit the guy generates tremendous buzz. He is a polarizing figure, but he electrifies enough to fill stadium seats and excite national media. Heck, the attention it'll bring will be great for the fans, the team and the owners.

Currently, we have nothing but a ho-hum team, but man, insert Bonds in the line-up and all of us get chills down our spine. Bonds even if vilified, will transform our team to an instant contender.

Bring it on.

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The 2007 A's Love Wednesdays!

Aug 2007 by louismg - 22 comments

Comments

Display:

WOO HOO!!

(i have not read the story yet, only the headline)

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 6, 2007 9:01 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

here it is, for those too lazy to click:

"There is no doubt in my mind that Oakland will sign Bonds," one major-league executive said Thursday as the winter meetings wound down. "I'd be shocked if it didn't happen."

Two other teams also have expressed interest in Bonds, an industry source said. Bonds is most likely a fit for an American League club, so that he could serve as a designated hitter. The A's, though, apparently have told Bonds that if he signs with them, he would appear in left field with some frequency. The home run king would be splitting DH duties with Jack Cust.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 6, 2007 9:02 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Best part

Beane also likes to make a splash. He didn't do so at the winter meetings, despite heavy speculation that he would trade Dan Haren and/or Joe Blanton. And though the GM still could decide to move one of those starters, if he does not, signing Bonds would dwarf most other offseason baseball news.

by arch on Dec 6, 2007 9:14 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Who are

the "other two teams" I wonder.

by IM4Oakgal on Dec 6, 2007 9:16 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

**** em
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 6, 2007 9:17 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

If we take our time

we can **** 'em all.

Yep. Warm and fuzzy... that's me.

by grover on Dec 6, 2007 10:09 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Your next diary title

How to **** them all in three easy steps. :-)

by IM4Oakgal on Dec 6, 2007 10:11 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I was going to skip the foreplay...

but OK, 3 steps it is.

Yep. Warm and fuzzy... that's me.

by grover on Dec 6, 2007 10:15 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

LOL
The ladies call guys like you "minute men".

by IM4Oakgal on Dec 6, 2007 10:40 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Damn straight (pardon the pun)

I can get ready in a minute. And like them patriots of old I always hit the mark.

Yep. Warm and fuzzy... that's me.

by grover on Dec 6, 2007 10:48 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Woohoo! totally called it!

My post from yesterday (scroll down about 4 diaries) just became a lot more relevant!  Bring on Bonds.

I do fully accept that I'm endorsing a cheater, but I don't endorse the fact that Bonds is an asshole. A prick? probably, but I'd say its more likely that Kent and Sheffield are bigger jerks.  I don't see Bonds being a cancer for a team like the A's that actually wants to win.

Projected Awesomeness now:

LF Buck (L)
CF Swisher (switch)
DH Bonds (L)
LF Cust (L)
2B Ellis (R)
1B Barton (L)
3B Chavez (L)
C Suzuki (R)
SS Crosby (R)

Seems lefty heavy....but when your lefties include Buck and Bonds, who can handle left-handed pitching, its okay that Chavez and Cust truly suck wind against them. Still, its too bad we don't have a righty power threat.

But...I think a Bonds signing would mean that the A's win the West, assuming the lineup stays healthy and just one of the following "IFs" comes true:

IF Harden stays healthy
IF Duke is an effective starter
IF Crosby produces

by SwisherSweet on Dec 6, 2007 9:07 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

and if

Haren continues pitching like he has the last couple of years.

by IM4Oakgal on Dec 6, 2007 9:20 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'd say LF defense should be pretty good ...
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Dec 6, 2007 9:21 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

With all that offense

who needs a RF?

The Warriors are so hot they set the KeyArena scoreboard on FIRE!-some espn commenter

by mikeA on Dec 6, 2007 9:22 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

i think buck in CF not swisher

but hell, who cares.

and we have denorfia, hannahan, murphy and bowen on the bench, backing up key positions.  that is acutally a pretty damn good offensive team.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 6, 2007 9:24 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Barton to AAA

If Beane signs Barry Bonds I won't be shocked if Barton starts the season at AAA, Swisher will play 1B, Cust LF, Kotsay/Denorfia CF and Buck RF...

Of course Barton will be ready to replace the first injury/slumping player for that group

by Olijerez77 on Dec 7, 2007 5:54 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Chavex vs lefties...

Chavez splits:

2003 .271 .403 .220 vs left, .387 .567 .312 vs right
2004 .412 .481 .306 vs left, .388 .514 .257 vs right
2005 .328 .421 .264 vs left, .329 .489 .271 vs right
2006 .311 .339 .197 vs left, .364 .469 .257 vs right
2007 .306 .446 .240 vs left, .314 .465 .244 vs right

I think it is hard to say that Chavez truly sucks against left handed pitching. He appears to have turned that around in 2004, 2005.  2006 and 2007 are hard to say due to the injuries.  I would like to see a 2004 Chavez.

Anyways, as I usually say about the lefty/righty thing. 2/3 of all at bats are vs right handed hitting.

by Donner on Dec 7, 2007 11:36 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

There is some reason to believe

that his platoon splits would be exacerbated by the particular injury he had.

Chavez's injuries seemed to slow his bat speed down as the primary influence on his actual performance at the plate. A lot more weak contact, a lot more swingthroughs on fastballs.

A slow bat is going to be more of an issue against pitchers of the same handedness. The reaction time has to be quicker because the ball is released from the pitcher's hand closer to where the player is standing.

Now, whether this effect is actually significant or not... you'd have to get a physicist and a doctor to tell you that.

In any event, Chavez has always had a fairly significant platoon split for his career. This is why in my article on platoons, I suggested that the A's at least open the season with Murphy getting the starts against left-handed pitching.

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Dec 7, 2007 12:11 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Hell yea

Im all for it. This could be the start of a sick lineup:

Buck
Swisher
Chavez
Bonds
Cust
Barton
Ellis
Suzuki
Short Stop(I just don't want to put down Crosby)

I think that with a lineup like this and our starting pitching, that we will more than contend in the AL west in 2008. Im not scared of the Angels lineup as it currently stands, and as ive seen mentioned in other diaries maybe Bonds will be the confidance factor that Chavez needs to finally put some real offensive numbers. Chavez has said on numerous occasions that he is a huge fan of Bonds, and would take the pressure off of Chavez to be the big bat in the lineup. He can be the good bat in the middle of the lineup surrounded by power, like he was during the Giambi and Miggy days...

"I Will Not Relent, I Am Driven"... Clutch
Bring Back The Bash!!!

by Shippee33 on Dec 6, 2007 9:12 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

all the b lamar b haters (both bonds and beane)

need to read the article before whining.  
bonds and the a's are an ideal fit for each other.

also consider this:
would you rather we trade haren and blanton and whoever else we can, totally blow up the team for prospects, and next compete in cisco field, or do you want the a's to sign bonds and maybe bartolo colon and try to win the west?  because unless you're a billionaire willing to buy the team right now and run it at a huge loss out of the goodness of your heart, those are really the only two viable options.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 6, 2007 9:16 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Get to work, Billy!
The Warriors are so hot they set the KeyArena scoreboard on FIRE!-some espn commenter

by mikeA on Dec 6, 2007 9:18 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I'd like the Bonds signing..

He is the bat that we have dreamed of...and I like that it will give a big FU to the media.

by IM4Oakgal on Dec 6, 2007 9:22 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

and the giants

maybe the a's could actually win over 71 games with him.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 6, 2007 9:25 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah and...

the signing would make Oz so happy.

by IM4Oakgal on Dec 6, 2007 9:27 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

see my reply above
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 6, 2007 9:29 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

If Bonds is signed, that means...

that we'll be seeing Swisher or Buck in Centerfield, and personally, I think I'd like to try Buck in Center. But whatever works.

Yeah, we'll have crappy OF defense, but we lived through Ben Grieve, didn't we? And hey, I'll take crap outfield defense for a good offense anyday, especially since we've sucked offensivly the last few years.

And if Bonds trial really will start AFTER the season, then all the better.

Since everyone else is throwing their everyday lineup out there, here's the lineup I would throw out there.

CF Travis Buck
1B Daric Barton
RF Nick Swisher
DH Barry Bonds
LF Jack Cust
3B Eric Chavez
2B Mark Ellis
C1 Kurt Suzuki
SS Bobby Murphy

Especially if Chavez bounces back, that is one hell of a Top 6. Ellis is solid enough for a #7 hitter, and Suzuki can probably hold his own in the 8th spot. And of course, we have the pitcher in the 9th spot.

by Zonis on Dec 6, 2007 9:31 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I bet

that Chavez can't even play until July. Or if he does he re-injures his shoulder immediately.

by IM4Oakgal on Dec 6, 2007 9:34 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

think positive thoughts please

save that for later, this is the most excited i've been about the a's in like two years.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 6, 2007 9:39 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

two years is a bit of a stretch
The Warriors are so hot they set the KeyArena scoreboard on FIRE!-some espn commenter

by mikeA on Dec 6, 2007 9:44 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The AlCS

In 2006 didn't excite you ? Frank didn't excite you ?

by IM4Oakgal on Dec 6, 2007 9:45 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

how many years ago was that?

i almost stopped following a's baseball entirely for like two months this summer, so 2006 is like three years ago for me.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 6, 2007 9:46 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

X?

Then if you did that...you better not call the Giant's fans fairweather because ...well. Pot? meet Kettle. (g)

by IM4Oakgal on Dec 6, 2007 9:49 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

well you know me
even back then i was probably posting on AN 20 times a day...
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 6, 2007 9:55 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

QOTM, AN user meta-division
I recall it as if it were a pastiche of "yesterday"... --LAXile

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Dec 6, 2007 10:12 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

His infamous last words:

Santiago Casilla!

Conspiracy theory time.

I'm a little lad who loves berries and cream!

by JediLeroy on Dec 7, 2007 10:54 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

AN Favorite Will Caroll says...

that besides the A's, only the Cards had any interest in Bonds.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/ch...

by Zonis on Dec 6, 2007 9:39 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

...

Travis (San Diego): What are your thoughts on Rich Harden? Does he still have the potential to return to his dominating ways, or is he destined to a Prior-like future?

Will Carroll: Interesting binary possibility. I think Harden's more like Kerry Wood -- you have to give him one more spring to try and be a starter, but after that, he's got nowhere left to go but the pen. I've heard some really strange theories on how this will play out, but I think with the A's new medical staff, we'll see a standard spring for Harden with a lot of hope.

by Zonis on Dec 6, 2007 9:41 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

...

David (Woodland): How significant are the A's medical issues and the front office? Bobby Crosby seemed pretty upset over his myriad of issues and it was rumored he was looking into a lawsuit (very rumored). I have only heard good things about Walt Horn who was moved to Oakland from Sacramento.

Will Carroll: I think the changes will be a plus. Some of it's bad luck and some of it needs to be placed on the players themselves, but sometimes taking on risk will bite you. It just seemed to all bite at once with the A's last year. If there's any consolation, it's that the A's learn and adjust as quickly as anyone.

by Zonis on Dec 6, 2007 9:41 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

...

Manprin (Sacramento): Will - hope there is decent coffee to be found in Nashville. What is Chris Denofria's place with the A's? Will his rehab continue through Spring Training or could he break camp on the 25 Man Roster? What are the odds Eric Chavez moves to 1st base if he can swing a bat (rarely touch the ball...) but surgery to both shoulders hampering his throwing ability? I'd rather not ask about Bobby Crosby, Mark Kotsay or Rich Harden.

Will Carroll: Coffee stinks.

I think Denorfia's going to be ready. I haven't checked on him in a while, but no reason to believe that he won't be back from TJ. I'd say that Chavez could move, but that would limit the A's options in a lot of ways given their current roster. Like Scott Rolen, I think Chavez can probably stay at 3B.

by Zonis on Dec 6, 2007 9:48 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Rolen's quite opinionated...

about the A's handling of Chavez.

by Cutthemullet on Dec 7, 2007 9:41 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

In other news, LaRussa went on a 10-minute rant

about how Chavez needs to move to first.

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Dec 7, 2007 9:50 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

**** them and their drunk driving manager

also, no way the cardinals fans would tolerate bonds on their team (yes, irony).

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 6, 2007 9:42 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

If it happens this will be a great test

juxtaposing my general feeling that I want my team to sign great players not great choir boys with my opinion that Barry Bonds is the Alpha Dickhead of this generation of ballplayers.

One thought, though:  it sure would behoove his agent Jeff "the other" Borris to promote the idea that "industry sources" say there are multiple interested teams.

I recall it as if it were a pastiche of "yesterday"... --LAXile

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Dec 6, 2007 9:54 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

i hate barry bonds

he's a steroids user and an a-hole on just about every level.  but he's pretty damn good at baseball, and i hate rooting for a 70 win team way more than i hate bonds.

also, he would not be the first a-hole or the first steroids user to ever wear the oakland a's uniform.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 6, 2007 9:58 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

See, I don't care about the steroids part

just about the dickhead part.  And I suspect I'll yell myself hoarse for him when he steps up in the 9th down a run.  But of all the players the A's picked up in my lifetime of rooting for them, he would be by orders of magnitude the one I'd previously loathed the most.  Kenny Rogers isn't even close.

I recall it as if it were a pastiche of "yesterday"... --LAXile

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Dec 6, 2007 10:07 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

yeah but think about it this way

if bonds wasn't such a huge dickhead, there would be no chance of him signing with the a's next year.  
fact.  
obvious.com

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 6, 2007 10:39 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

points of rebuttal
  1. We only "know" that Bonds is a dickhead because he's been a dickhead to sportswriters. Given human nature; the societal license given to athletes, large (mostly) attractive men, wealthy men, and prominent successes; the sense of entitlement that comes from being a "legacy" or a Tony Montanaesque social striver; and a wealth of anecdotal and historical evidence, I think we can safely assume that Bonds is neither alone nor unparalleled in his dickheadedness.
  1. Kenny Rogers hadn't yet fully ascended Mt Dickhead when he was with the A's.
  1. Jose Canseco doesn't even give Bonds a run for his money?
I'm even surer that you're wrong. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 7, 2007 9:24 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I also hate Barry Bonds

but I'm really torn.  I want the A's to win very badly, but I'm going to have a very hard time rooting for Bonds.  If they do sign him, it's going to be fascinating to see how so many react.  So many people have hated him on this site for years.  I know I'm not going to wholeheartedly embrace him, but damn he's going to give our lineup some pop.  And the A's will be a the national stage in a way that they haven't been since the glory days of the Bash Brothers.  There will be swarms of media around and you can bet your bottom dollar that the A's will be featured on Sunday Night Baseball and the Fox game of the week all that time.

by Tyler Bleszinski on Dec 6, 2007 11:42 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

If he hits well

people will get over it and so will you. If he sucks... then we will all get into a hatin on Bonds  frenzy!

by IM4Oakgal on Dec 6, 2007 11:52 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

For me ...

it will probably be like when Canseco was on the team ... I hated the guy ... even when I was too young to understand the fairly good reasons to do so. So I booed him on and then celebrated as loudly as anyone when the A's won because of him.

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Dec 7, 2007 12:53 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Blez,

you'll hate him after he turns you down for that AN on-line interview for the 3rd consecutive time.. lol

Thank you Raider fan! We all get to watch the Pats/Colts game on TV.

by sf drift king on Dec 7, 2007 1:20 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe after he signs

Bonds will want to do a weekly write in for AN!

Yep. Warm and fuzzy... that's me.

by grover on Dec 7, 2007 1:46 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

This is such good news,

If it comes to pass. I was so dreading re-building. I just couldn't believe that Beane would do it with the kind of potential that the A's currently possess. I am too old to be enthusiastic about rebuilding for the future.

by IM4Oakgal on Dec 6, 2007 10:01 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I'm not sure that follows

though I want to believe it.  If Beane's able to get Bonds at a value price, and then factors in the buzz and attendance benefits, a Bonds deal pays off even if the A's are out of it by July.  And if the contract in turn lets Beane spin Bonds off in the summer to a contender for prospects, well, so much the better.

I recall it as if it were a pastiche of "yesterday"... --LAXile

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Dec 6, 2007 10:10 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I just don't want to believe that.

and so... at this point... I refuse to entertain that thought. So there!

by IM4Oakgal on Dec 6, 2007 10:13 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

If beane signs Bonds

I wonder what move(s) the Halos would make to counter it? Could that push them towards Santana maybe?

by IM4Oakgal on Dec 6, 2007 10:10 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

i think beane is counting on the angels

not being willing to give up the prospects necessary to get santana.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 6, 2007 10:13 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Probably right.

It seems that most of  the teams have decided not to give up their prospects for a proven ace. A good move for some , but not other teams IMO.

by IM4Oakgal on Dec 6, 2007 10:16 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Stoneman wouldn't

Reagins seems anxious to prove himself.

Santana, Lackey, Garland, Escobar and Weaver beats our starting 5.

They were willing to part with some choice pieces to get Cabrera, why wouldn't they do the same for Santana? They have the $$$ to keep him, to sign him to the extension he supposedly wants.

Yep. Warm and fuzzy... that's me.

by grover on Dec 6, 2007 10:21 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Remember, the Angels are arrogant

They think that they don't need power to win. They think that smallball beats big ball. They also think that "team chemistry" is everything. I expect the Angels to behave as though this is no upgrade for Oakland.

And, you know, they may be right. But not for the reasons they think.

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Dec 6, 2007 11:51 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Tjey will be right if...

Barry shrinks down to the size of Willie Mays without his PEDS. ;-)

by IM4Oakgal on Dec 6, 2007 11:54 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The Angels also think good pitching wins

Santana would improve anyone's rotation. I don't know if they do the deal or not. Two years ago, Stoneman sits on his hands. The new guy... we'll see.

Yep. Warm and fuzzy... that's me.

by grover on Dec 6, 2007 11:59 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe this is one reason the deal isnt done yet

Beane waits until  the Santana  deal is over, which effectively takes care of all the big pieces that everyone believes the Halo's can go after.

Then he swoops in to make his move.

by 5Aces on Dec 7, 2007 8:44 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Arch?

I will have to unrecommend your diary if it has no text.

by IM4Oakgal on Dec 6, 2007 10:20 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Sorry,

was just inserting some updates. It's amazing how much of a wildfire "Bonds to the A's" can bring. Hope it happens.

by arch on Dec 6, 2007 10:25 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

It's sad for our organization

that they can find no method of fielding a potentially winning team other than becoming the biggest fucking sellouts on the planet.

One winning season brought to us by a hired gun like Bonds means nothing to me.  Even if they go all the way.  I want to see real change, I want to know why WE're not the ones to find the David Ortizes, to draft the Travis Hafners and the Albert Pujolses.  Hell, even the Dustin Pedroias.  We seem to top out at Chavez and Swisher, and as we can see, that's not enough, and it was a long time ago.

That's the only way I'm going to get excited about this club.  My biggest hope is that for whatever reason he ends up playing in about 15 games, we lose all of them, and Buck, Barton, Cust and Swisher step up and win a goddamn championship anyway.

And before you all go jumping on me for being a "hater" or whatever the fuck, just because I don't happen to agree with you that this is a good thing for the A's, go through my posting history and try to find something negative I've said about the guy.  I believe the only thing I've ever posted about Bonds on this site was actually positive after one of his radio interviews with Ray Taliaferro (or however the hell that's spelled).  It's not about him, to me, it's about the organization and what I really want to see out of it.

"BTW, this is ridiculous..." -- devo

by oblique on Dec 6, 2007 10:22 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Why "sellouts," though?

Seems to me that signing an HOF player for 25 cents on the dollar is pretty much exactly what the Athletics organization in the Beane era is all about:  finding value beyond their economic restrictions.  Whether that value comes through advanced player evaluation metrics, injury rehab projects, or embracing guys with bad reps is secondary...what they'd be doing, seems to me, is right in line with the franchise approach.  (and mind you, I don't like Bonds, do think the A's are better off rebuilding, and don't assume that a Bonds signing means going for it in 2008.)

I recall it as if it were a pastiche of "yesterday"... --LAXile

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Dec 6, 2007 10:30 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I respect that

you feel as unhappy as some of us do happy at the thought of Bonds. For me, I am past the point in my life where I sit in judgement of other  people and their weaknesses. Bonds broke the law. But after all it all boils down to what he put in his own body. that kind of mitigates the crime IMO. Yes, he lied and he deserves to be prosecuted for obstruction of justice but he doesn't deserve to be public enemy number 1... As for his personality flaws? We all have them and his are real and magnified by the press.
Bottom line = he helps the team.

by IM4Oakgal on Dec 6, 2007 10:32 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Actually I don't care about all that stuff.

It's the whole approach I'm sick of.

"BTW, this is ridiculous..." -- devo

by oblique on Dec 6, 2007 10:40 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

What?

Rebuilding  is overrated. The fan experience for that sucks bigtime.

by IM4Oakgal on Dec 6, 2007 10:43 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't believe I said anything about rebuilding.

And what's the fan experience for watching a 45 year old fat guy with a bad attitude, and knowing that the organization thinks that he's your last hope?

"BTW, this is ridiculous..." -- devo

by oblique on Dec 6, 2007 10:46 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I kind of liked...

...Watching an old fat guy named Frank Thomas on our ALCS team, but maybe that's just me.

by Travis Buck Nuckin on Dec 6, 2007 11:09 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

TBN? But but but...

Frank wasn't homegrown! How could you enjoy him? ( MkT? Now ..This is mockery).

by IM4Oakgal on Dec 6, 2007 11:16 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

don't ridicule mkt, hell don't even joke around

with him, he may harbor that shit for months...

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 6, 2007 11:19 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

and that's my point too.

This is just joking around with him...nothing malicious intended at all. That's why I said overly sensitive.

by IM4Oakgal on Dec 6, 2007 11:25 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm telling my therapist on you.

And maybe Nico will lend me a sheep for comfort.

"BTW, this is ridiculous..." -- devo

by oblique on Dec 6, 2007 11:40 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

LOL

See? Now that was funny. You lightened up...good for you.

by IM4Oakgal on Dec 6, 2007 11:45 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

<rolls eyes>
"BTW, this is ridiculous..." -- devo

by oblique on Dec 6, 2007 11:46 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You're officially in trouble with Santa.
"BTW, this is ridiculous..." -- devo

by oblique on Dec 6, 2007 11:41 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

1 player

doesn't make a winning team. But one player can provide the missing piece to get us back to the Win zone.

by IM4Oakgal on Dec 6, 2007 11:14 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

i'm confused...

how are the a's sellouts?  
is free agency not available to us, even when we're exploiting market inefficiencies to pick up an undervalued commodity completely in line with the organizational philosophy?
in fact, even if we paid full value for bonds, he's the epitome of the a's organizational philosophy in terms of plate discipline, obp, etc.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 6, 2007 10:38 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, it's available.

Probably if Bonds were associated with a team other than the Giants, I would not feel that this was a sellout.  I do feel that in our market, the SF Bay, it's a move worthy of ridicule.  Even if the A's win a championship, it'll be "Oh, well they had to sign the ultimate Giant to do it."  It's like a smaller version of why I can't understand how people root for the Yankees.

"BTW, this is ridiculous..." -- devo

by oblique on Dec 6, 2007 10:44 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

no, if the a's win it will be

"the giants had the best hitter since babe ruth (if not the best hitter ever) in possibly the best stretch of offensive production in baseball history, and couldn't win with him, whereas the a's picked him up when he was 43 and no one else wanted him, and won."

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 6, 2007 10:46 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Who cares?

We aren't in Jr. High school. Let them talk. and let us give them something to talk and whine about. Sour grapes  from the Giants fans would actually amuse me slightly.

by IM4Oakgal on Dec 6, 2007 10:46 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

and let's remember

this is mkt afraid of what giants fans will say if the a's win a championship while the giants are scoring 2.7 runs a game and going for 100 losses.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 6, 2007 10:48 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Get the f off my back dude.

I don't know why you insist on jumping all over me every time I post anything, but there is a legitimate alternate viewpoint here, and that's that some of us would rather root for a team of home grown talent than a team of old guys who earned their stripes elsewhere.  

"BTW, this is ridiculous..." -- devo

by oblique on Dec 6, 2007 10:51 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Calm down.

This is a place to discuss views. He's rebutting yours not denigrating YOU personally.
As for your comment...one old guy doesn't make a team full of old guys.

by IM4Oakgal on Dec 6, 2007 10:53 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

No, in his posts where he presented his view

or asked a question, I responded in kind.  If he's going to resort to mocking me for having an opposing viewpoint, I will call him on it.

"BTW, this is ridiculous..." -- devo

by oblique on Dec 6, 2007 10:54 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

you say i'm mocking you...

"this is mkt afraid of what giants fans will say if the a's win a championship while the giants are scoring 2.7 runs a game and going for 100 losses."

but isn't that exactly what you admit you're afraid of, based on your previous comment?

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 6, 2007 10:57 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

No.
"BTW, this is ridiculous..." -- devo

by oblique on Dec 6, 2007 11:39 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

how is that different from this

Probably if Bonds were associated with a team other than the Giants, I would not feel that this was a sellout.  I do feel that in our market, the SF Bay, it's a move worthy of ridicule.  Even if the A's win a championship, it'll be "Oh, well they had to sign the ultimate Giant to do it."

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 7, 2007 12:00 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

It's not about what fans will say to me.

When I wrote it, it was in response to the idea that the A's will get more media attention.  I don't think that's going to happen, at least, not in a positive way.

"BTW, this is ridiculous..." -- devo

by oblique on Dec 7, 2007 12:33 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Well your feelings about it are yours.

But IMO...you are being overly sensitive to teasing.

by IM4Oakgal on Dec 6, 2007 10:57 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

To each his/her own

I guess my line's in a different place than his and yours, but it's served me pretty well so far.

"BTW, this is ridiculous..." -- devo

by oblique on Dec 6, 2007 11:05 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

how am i jumping on your back?

of course it's a legitimate alternative viewpoint to be worried that fans of a big market 67-95 giants team will ridicule you if the a's happen to win a world series with a player their team discarded.

i mean, i guess i can't fully understand it because i don't live on the peninsula, but that scenario would be really really terrible, i'm sure everyone can see that clear as day...

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 6, 2007 10:54 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

It's not about their fans ridiculing me

as much as it is about what kind of team I would prefer to root for.

"BTW, this is ridiculous..." -- devo

by oblique on Dec 6, 2007 10:56 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

dude, me mocking you for having a viewpoint

giants fans ridiculing you for rooting for a championship team...  it's a hard life out there on the peninsula.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 6, 2007 10:58 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Must be nice.
"BTW, this is ridiculous..." -- devo

by oblique on Dec 6, 2007 11:02 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I hear that.

Homegrown teams are more fun...to me too...if they are winning. But give me some hired guns if they aren't.

by IM4Oakgal on Dec 6, 2007 11:20 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

It will be hard for the Giants fans to ridicule

a winning team. They have the money and yet  still cannot get it together and combine building and buying to make a winning team. So F them if we take their discard and use him to help our talented young men bring winning back to the bay area baseball fans.

by IM4Oakgal on Dec 6, 2007 11:01 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

and can you provide me with examples (ie links)

of where i have jumped all over you every time you post anything, please?

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 6, 2007 10:55 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

OK, so it was once

and I apologize for overstating it.

http://www.athleticsnation.com/comme...

That said, it was the last time I bothered to post a dissenting opinion on this site.

"BTW, this is ridiculous..." -- devo

by oblique on Dec 6, 2007 11:02 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe you were confusing yourself with

A's eh.

The Warriors are so hot they set the KeyArena scoreboard on FIRE!-some espn commenter

by mikeA on Dec 6, 2007 11:05 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Somebody call?

...anyone seen X-man? I can't find a sign of him anywhere!

Did the A's lose two games in a row?

by A s Eh on Dec 7, 2007 8:59 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

that's hilarious
i think the longest period i've gone without posting on AN when not on vacation is like three days.

and how are your efforts to turn hannahan into a CF based on his OPS coming along?

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 8, 2007 8:23 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not smart enough to come up with Hannahan
to CF all by myself.

...the A's mentioned they would try him in the OF towards the end of last season.

...I believe it was right after the 23rd 2007 A's outfield variation.

- He reacts to the ball quickly.
- Throws with accuracy.
- What little I saw of his footwork at 3B has looked good.
- Handled the foul areas well.
- He is 27 and the A's have 6 years contract control if the A's desire.
- Chavez looks to be our 3B defender through at least 3 of those years.
- If his hitting does not improve it looks great coming at CF.
- If his hitting does improve it looks great coming at CF.

Hannahan seems to fit the A's if he can add some versatility. Carlos Beltran, Torii, Wells, no one will mistake him for those guys but he can add value by backing up more than 3B.

IMO

by A s Eh on Dec 8, 2007 10:11 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

wow

that must have been terrible for you.  seriously.  everyone should read that as an example of how dissenting opinions are shouted down around here....

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 6, 2007 11:06 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

It was, man.

Years of therapy.  F*#$er.

"BTW, this is ridiculous..." -- devo

by oblique on Dec 6, 2007 11:20 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

well can you explain

what exactly was so terrible and traumatizing about that exchange?

if it's such a big deal that you think i insist on jumping all over you every time you post anything, and it was the last time you bothered to post a dissenting opinion on this site, i'd really like to know.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 6, 2007 11:29 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Who said terrible/traumatizing?

If it were "terrible and traumatizing" I would have addressed it immediately and directly.  It was annoying, as was your mocking tone with me today.

I did not intend to imply a causal relationship between that exchange and the fact that I haven't bothered to post my opinions here; the statement above ("that said...") was actually meant to be self-mocking since I could only find the one episode, after saying "every time" earlier.

"Years of therapy" was a joke (it could clearly only have been months, since then... ;-) ).

Anything else?

"BTW, this is ridiculous..." -- devo

by oblique on Dec 6, 2007 11:37 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

okay got it

so when you say

"I don't know why you insist on jumping all over me every time I post anything"

what you mean is

"I don't know why you annoyed me in one episode back in October"

glad we got that straightened out.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 7, 2007 12:20 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

And I did apologize for it

over an hour ago.  Why are you still stewing about it?

"BTW, this is ridiculous..." -- devo

by oblique on Dec 7, 2007 12:22 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

"still stewing about it"
QOTM irony division
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 7, 2007 12:33 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Especially when said old guys

are not particularly appealing.

"BTW, this is ridiculous..." -- devo

by oblique on Dec 6, 2007 10:51 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

from the article

Bonds fits the A's criteria in many ways. First, he'll be relatively cheap, given all the off-the-field issues around him, plus he's 43 and his playing time occasionally is limited by injuries. Second, Oakland almost annually brings in a prominent player on the downside of a good career: Mike Piazza, Frank Thomas, David Justice, Ron Gant, Eric Karros, et al. And as one insider said Thursday, "Bonds is the ultimate. Frank Thomas is a great player, but even he can't hold a candle to Bonds."

were the a's sellouts for signing justice, gant, karros, thomas, and piazza?

there's an interesting exchange in moneyball where lewis asks depodesta about justice and depo tells him justice is on the team as an experiment, to see how a good hitter at the end of his career performs.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 6, 2007 10:43 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

See my reply above
"BTW, this is ridiculous..." -- devo

by oblique on Dec 6, 2007 10:44 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I think you've made a lot of good points

on this issue but now you stretch too far. Bonds has a Hell of a lot more baggage than Piazza, Thomas, etc etc. It's the baggage that would have people calling the A's sell-outs. I think the term's a joke but those other players don't deserve to be cast in the same suspicious light that Bonds is in.

Yep. Warm and fuzzy... that's me.

by grover on Dec 6, 2007 10:54 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

yeah and it's also different because

"Bonds is the ultimate. Frank Thomas is a great player, but even he can't hold a candle to Bonds."

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 6, 2007 11:00 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, cause the whole "sell out"

issue is centered around how much gas those other guys had left in their tanks.

Bonds juiced. His head swelled up to twice its original size. Those other guys, well, you can't really say the same.

Yep. Warm and fuzzy... that's me.

by grover on Dec 6, 2007 11:13 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

well then the a's sold out a long time ago

with canseco, mcgwire, giambi, giambi, tejada, guillen....

guillen had HGH delivered to the oakland coliseum address just a few years ago.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 6, 2007 11:15 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

and he's a total asshole,

he's just not as good as bonds.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 6, 2007 11:17 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Do you hear me defending any of those guys?

Have I said anything (serious) about not signing Bonds? The closest I've come to doing that is saying folks would leave if it happened.

What I am complaining about is Bonds is dirty, those other guys (Piazza, Thomas, Justice and the rest) weren't. Or at least they were smart enough to not be obvious and get caught. You're smearing them in an attempt to defend Bonds and that, my friend, is complete and utter bullshit.

Yep. Warm and fuzzy... that's me.

by grover on Dec 6, 2007 11:20 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

wait, how am i smearing them?

justice, gant, karros, thomas, and piazza were compared to bonds in the article.  the only thing i ever implied they had in common with bonds was that they were good hitters at the end of their careers.  

then you mentioned juice, and i created a separate list of a's players: canseco, mcgwire, giambi, giambi, tejada, guillen.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 6, 2007 11:25 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

That's bullshit and you know it

Sell out isn't about Bonds being an asshole, it's about him being dirty. It's about steroids. Who do you think you're kidding, trying to hide behind that arguement? You were just referring to them as declining hitters.

You're comparing them to a guy who's facing a Federal inditement! And I think I spelled inditement wrong... oh well. I figured a guy going to law school might have heard something about it, the story has been in the news on occasion.

Yep. Warm and fuzzy... that's me.

by grover on Dec 6, 2007 11:39 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

i quoted an article
that compared bonds to those other players because they were all good hitters in decline.  when i did so, i specified that that was the reason i was quoting the article.

when you mentioned it was different because bonds used steroids, i agreed that it was different.
"yeah and it's also different because"
"yeah and it's also"
"yeah and"
"yeah"

YEAH
adv.   Informal
Yes.

but there are plenty of OTHER hitters who have been associated with both the oakland a's and steroids, and among them are canseco, mcgwire, giambi, giambi, tejada, guillen.  and guillen had HGH delivered to the oakland coliseum address a few years ago.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 7, 2007 12:09 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Raises hand...

I think the same of some of some of the other guys.

by IM4Oakgal on Dec 6, 2007 11:18 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You're not helping

You know what, I don't care. Bash 'em all. Accuse them of lying and cheating or whatever the Hell you want. They're all guilty.

Ellis, Chavez, Crosby, Hatty, Kendall, Swisher, Buck, Huddy, Zito, Mulder, Street, Eck, Stewart, Welch, Rickey, Hendu, Lansford, Brosius, Bordick, Steinbach, Parker, Reggie, Willie Wilson, Walt Weiss.

ACCUSE THEM ALL!

Anything less and you're a hypocrit.

Yep. Warm and fuzzy... that's me.

by grover on Dec 6, 2007 11:33 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

At this point...

I assume more use than don't. So I don't feel the same condemnation as you do so to use the word accuse  just isn't appropriate or accurate.  However,that's maybe a discussion for another time.

by IM4Oakgal on Dec 6, 2007 11:36 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Here's a concept

Better 10 guilty men go free than 1 innocent man be punished.

If you're comfortable dragging an innocent man through the mud then you're more callous than me.

Yep. Warm and fuzzy... that's me.

by grover on Dec 6, 2007 11:44 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You don't get it.

I don't care about who uses and who doesn't. I don't judge them for it.

by IM4Oakgal on Dec 6, 2007 11:48 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

OK

So if I don't judge whores, if I don't care that they sell their bodies or not, then it would be fine for me to call you a whore?

Or do you think the stigma attached to the term, to the accusation if you will, might cause you some grief from other people who have a different set of values then me?

Yep. Warm and fuzzy... that's me.

by grover on Dec 6, 2007 11:56 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

It would be fine to suspect that I was a whore.

It would not be fine to say I am absolutely certain that you are a whore. There's a difference.

by IM4Oakgal on Dec 7, 2007 12:00 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Sure there's a difference

xbhaskarx is making an accusation. You "raised your hand"... are you going to do the same?

Yep. Warm and fuzzy... that's me.

by grover on Dec 7, 2007 12:04 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

what accusation am i making?
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 7, 2007 12:05 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Gee, I wonder

Is this one of those deals where you've implied and suggested and insinuated but you haven't outright said the words therefore you're as pure as the driven snow?

That's cheap and I've always held you to a higher standard than that.

Yep. Warm and fuzzy... that's me.

by grover on Dec 7, 2007 12:10 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

can you at least quote the comment
where i implied, suggested, and insinuated?
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 7, 2007 12:12 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Sell outs

mkt calls the A's sell outs

Why? Because of Bonds. Not because he's a 1 year rental but because of the steroids.

Are the A's sell outs

Sell out has nothing to do with 1 year rentals of old baseball players and everything to do with knowingly signing a player or players who use steroids.

You compared Thomas and Piazza and Justice to Barry Bonds using "sell out". As I said the 1st time, none of those players come with the baggage or the legal troubles currently facing Bonds. He's been indicted (looked up the spelling) on perjury and obstruction charges that basically stem from his involvement with steroids.

Bonds is dirty. Sell out is a loaded term. Using it on those other old guys in wrong.

Yep. Warm and fuzzy... that's me.

by grover on Dec 7, 2007 12:32 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

well then i apologize
for not knowing that "sellout" as used by mkt was a direct reference to steroids when mkt's comment did not use any of the following words: steroids, juice, HGH, dirty, BALCO, cream, clear, THG, PED, etc.

but aside from not using a single term that would indicate he was talking about steroids, why did he say "I want to know why WE're not the ones to find the David Ortizes, to draft the Travis Hafners and the Albert Pujolses."

because everyone is so certain ortiz, hafner and pujols are NOT on steroids, unlike bonds?
wasn't pujols linked to a trainer who helped jason grimsley get HGH?

---

and either way, one thing i will NOT apologize for is
-You compared Thomas and Piazza and Justice to Barry Bonds using "sell out"
or
-Sell out is a loaded term. Using it on those other old guys in wrong.

i think it's clear to everyone but you that i did not imply the a's were sellouts for signing justice, gant, karros, thomas, and piazza.  i implied that the a's were NOT SELLOUTS for signing them. that is like the exact opposite.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 7, 2007 12:43 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I never said you were calling the A's sell outs!

I said you were painting Group 1 with the same muck covering Bonds.

Yep. Warm and fuzzy... that's me.

by grover on Dec 7, 2007 12:52 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

and unless at least one or two other ANers

say that i accused
-the a's of selling out for signing justice, gant, karros, thomas, and piazza
-justice, gant, karros, thomas, and piazza of being "sellouts" for whatever reason
-justice, gant, karros, thomas, and piazza of using steroids

i'm done arguing with you over your interpretation of what you think i implying.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 7, 2007 12:46 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Just so you're clear

You've accused Justice, Gant etc. of using steroids by linking them to Bonds. That's at least the 3rd time I've said that so maybe it'll sink in this time.

Yep. Warm and fuzzy... that's me.

by grover on Dec 7, 2007 12:57 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

No he didn't
The Warriors are so hot they set the KeyArena scoreboard on FIRE!-some espn commenter

by mikeA on Dec 7, 2007 1:01 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

thank you for understanding english, mikeA
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 7, 2007 1:05 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Who are you, Tom Tancredo?
The Warriors are so hot they set the KeyArena scoreboard on FIRE!-some espn commenter

by mikeA on Dec 7, 2007 1:07 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

hah

hey i understand english is a difficult language, more so than some others perhaps, because it was my second language.
but i'm fairly certain i did not misuse it above.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 7, 2007 1:09 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

and still waiting for a non-grover AN regular

to disagree, but i won't be waiting up...

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 7, 2007 1:07 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Not that big of a leap mike

Why would the A's be "sell outs" if they signed Bonds?

Because they sign an older player to a 1 year deal? You didn't hear anyone call the A's sell outs after Karros or Thomas or Piazza or Stewart.

OR

Because Bonds used steroids, is facing federal trial and is generally considered synonymous with almost everything wrong in professional sports. You don't hear much about him shooting a gun at strip clubs, I'll give him that.

Yep. Warm and fuzzy... that's me.

by grover on Dec 7, 2007 1:55 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The guys he mentioned

are not too controversial....

The Warriors are so hot they set the KeyArena scoreboard on FIRE!-some espn commenter

by mikeA on Dec 7, 2007 12:07 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

are we talking about the first or second list?

first: justice, gant, karros, thomas, and piazza

second: canseco, mcgwire, giambi, giambi, tejada, guillen

bonds belongs on both lists, for different reasons, but i'm genuinely not sure which one we are talking about right now...

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 7, 2007 12:14 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You're referring to the home grown batch I hope

And not Karros, Thomas, Gant, Piazza, Justice.

Yep. Warm and fuzzy... that's me.

by grover on Dec 7, 2007 12:16 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

yes

except I'm 100% sure that Gant was juicing.

The Warriors are so hot they set the KeyArena scoreboard on FIRE!-some espn commenter

by mikeA on Dec 7, 2007 12:25 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

He may have been

But I haven't heard of Ron Gant facing federal charges either. I think the case against bonds might be a little more damning than the one you could make against Gant.

Yep. Warm and fuzzy... that's me.

by grover on Dec 7, 2007 12:33 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I suspect some of those players.

That's what I meant. Anyway...it's midnight and I turn into a pumpkin now. So I will read any other remarks tomorrow.  I enjoyed the discussion with all of you. Nytol.

by IM4Oakgal on Dec 7, 2007 12:07 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I know I'm a little late

But I wanted to congratulate grover for using "then".

I'm a little lad who loves berries and cream!

by JediLeroy on Dec 7, 2007 5:04 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

and also,

"Hell, even the Dustin Pedroias.  We seem to top out at Chavez and Swisher"

are you implying dustin pedroia is better than swisher? maybe we should wait another year or two before comparing pedroia to mark ellis, and then we'll see about chavez after that.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 6, 2007 11:04 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

More happy thoughts

If Bonds joins the A's, there is 100% certainty he will be injured by April and play in fewer games than Rich Harden.

More than just ANtics: http://www.louisgray.com/live/

by louismg on Dec 6, 2007 10:32 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Mike Piazza?

Deja vu all over again?

by IM4Oakgal on Dec 6, 2007 10:34 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Bonds brings wins

I like wins.

Really, it's very easy for me to look past all the crap and just think of him as another Frank Thomas, a really good, really old hitter, coming to town to help us. His past is his past, and as long as it doesn't keep him out of the lineup and does keep us up in the standings, I'm fine.

RagingHarden: Yeah if you get 20 starts out of me I'll be shocked. Like, I'll wreck my drawers.

by walk off bunt on Dec 6, 2007 10:36 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, wins are awesome.
The Warriors are so hot they set the KeyArena scoreboard on FIRE!-some espn commenter

by mikeA on Dec 6, 2007 10:38 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Wi...wins?

Handshakes, Kool and the Gang, non-round numbers on the lower half of the line score?  I vaguely remember those.

I recall it as if it were a pastiche of "yesterday"... --LAXile

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Dec 6, 2007 10:43 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Wins rule.

In professional sports. Hands down.

by IM4Oakgal on Dec 6, 2007 10:44 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

But what about the A's soul?!?!

What about their innocence?!?!

Not that I know what those words mean, much less stand for.

If the A's aren't going to try and rebuild, if they're going to try and keep it together for one more year and go for a title, then I'll be damned if I can think of a better bat available than Barry Bonds.

Win the whole fucking thing.

Yep. Warm and fuzzy... that's me.

by grover on Dec 6, 2007 10:46 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Let's go Oakland!!!

Yeah, what grover said.

by IM4Oakgal on Dec 6, 2007 10:48 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I would like to point out, though

That I don't blame people if they're upset about the A's signing Bonds. People have different values. Quite frankly, I would sell my soul for a World Series.

Others aren't so cold, and that's fine.

RagingHarden: Yeah if you get 20 starts out of me I'll be shocked. Like, I'll wreck my drawers.

by walk off bunt on Dec 6, 2007 11:05 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I agree with you.

It's a perfectly valid viewpoint to feel revulsion for Bonds as an A . I just don't share it.

by IM4Oakgal on Dec 6, 2007 11:07 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

yeah, people are fans for different reasons,

want different things out of it, etc. So it's sort of pointless to argue about it. Just as long as people don't say absurd Ozian things about how Bonds sucks just because they don't like him...

The Warriors are so hot they set the KeyArena scoreboard on FIRE!-some espn commenter

by mikeA on Dec 6, 2007 11:08 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly

If they express revuslion because of the steroids...or his past affiliations...or his surly personality... I get that and respect it. But if they deny his numbers, his abilites then that I take umbrage with...and do not respect.

by IM4Oakgal on Dec 6, 2007 11:11 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The most important decision...

If Bonds joins the A's, what number does he get?

25 = McGwire
24 = Rickey

You tell me?

More than just ANtics: http://www.louisgray.com/live/

by louismg on Dec 6, 2007 11:19 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

25 would be amusing
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 6, 2007 11:21 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Or his cap size?
They could start with 8 1/2 and reduce it as the season goes on and his steroid use fades to the past (assuming blah blah blah).
More than just ANtics: http://www.louisgray.com/live/

by louismg on Dec 6, 2007 11:42 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

my guess is 25

not that suzuki wouldn't fork 24 over if given the chance, but 25 is already available and that's the number almost all people identify him with.

"He has no equivalent." -Paul DePodesta on Jeremy Brown

by flipgatey3 on Dec 7, 2007 6:14 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm hoping the

ML executive with doubt in his mind is Beane.

The Warriors are so hot they set the KeyArena scoreboard on FIRE!-some espn commenter

by mikeA on Dec 6, 2007 11:23 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Anyway...

I hope this isn't all just another rumor. I will be very disappointed.

by IM4Oakgal on Dec 6, 2007 11:26 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I can see it both ways

First of all, in terms of a baseball decision, signing Bonds is a fantastic decision.  He is the best hitter the A's could acquire this offseason, bar none.  As the article says, he is the ultimate.  This signing would be Moneyball at its finest.

On the other hand, I can understand the negativity towards this signing.  I myself am not a fan of him, and think his is the biggest asshole in baseball.  How do the Oakland faithful aka, season ticket holders react?  These people support and root for the A's no matter who is on the team.  The A's are a passionate part of their lives.  They are emotionally invested in the team.  I assume these die hard A's fans already hate Bonds with a passion.  It would be tremendously hard for these people to root for Bonds on the A's.

The potential is there for Bonds to be a "clubhouse cancer", and ruin team chemistry.  Also who knows what kind of unwanted results could come with Bonds.  What if Bonds blows up at Beane for "hating black people".  As ridiculous as this may sound, anything is possible with a guy like this.

My opinion is to seperate myself from emotional decisions, and look at what is best for the team.  I was devastated when Hudson and Mulder were traded, but once the shock wears off, I got over it.  Winning makes it easier.  Its also hard because I do consider myself a passionate A's fan, and my hatred for the giants runs deep.  

Ultimately I guess it comes down to results, and I think with Bonds, the A's on paper have a very good shot at making the playoffs.  

Count me in.

"...we don't score six, seven runs. We score three, four runs and play defense and pitch" - Eric Chavez (2006)

by pickinmachine on Dec 6, 2007 11:40 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Excellent post.

Props to you, Pickin.

by IM4Oakgal on Dec 6, 2007 11:49 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Far be it from me

to defend Barry Bonds, but I have to say that your "What if Bonds blows up at Beane for 'hating black people'?" is a singularly bad example.

One of the few things to admire about Barry Bonds personally is that he doesn't play the race card.

"Ten times thy self were better than ten Hattebergs" -- Monkeyball, channeling Shakespeare

by iglew on Dec 7, 2007 12:41 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Which is deeply ironic

given that every poll ever done by anybody indicates that people's opinions toward him are massively influenced by race...

If ever anyone could point to race being a factor in his treatment, it's a guy who's had like 3 national Gallup polls demonstrate it explicitly.

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Dec 7, 2007 1:00 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

disagree

Have you seen any episodes of the reality show Bonds on Bonds?

Seriously you've never read anything about Bonds and race issues?

Regardless, the point I was trying to make was that Bonds is the type of player that could create some unwanted distraction within the organization.  Maybe I shouldnt have mentioned race as it is a touchy subject.

"...we don't score six, seven runs. We score three, four runs and play defense and pitch" - Eric Chavez (2006)

by pickinmachine on Dec 7, 2007 1:12 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Well, I haven't read everything about Bonds

but if race is one of his things, I missed it.  Seems like he was just a colorblind jerk all the time -- unlike, say, Milton Bradley, who seems to bring it up a lot.

So if Bonds plays the race card and I missed it, I stand corrected.

"Ten times thy self were better than ten Hattebergs" -- Monkeyball, channeling Shakespeare

by iglew on Dec 7, 2007 3:27 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn't call it the "race card"...

..But Bonds has openly talked about race before though. He has said things about Boston being a racist city for example.  (And I'm from Boston, and attest that there are a lot of racist morons there).

by Travis Buck Nuckin on Dec 7, 2007 4:05 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

he's brought up race more than once

The most memorable instance being when he pronounced Boston a racist city.

by Cutthemullet on Dec 7, 2007 9:42 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

well yeah but that's just an undeniable fact
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 7, 2007 6:45 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

and how do we know that?

Because it's undeniable.

I'm even surer that you're wrong. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 7, 2007 8:46 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I have mixed feelings about all this

After all, Bonds might go to jail!

Bonds' legal team, whenever it's fully assembled, faces a stiff challenge in keeping him out of jail, former federal prosecutors familiar with the case say.
{link}

It would be one thing if the media frenzy following Bonds was strictly a matter of the controversy surrounding his past steroid use, but his recent indictment takes things to a new level.

Before this latest indictment, I would have been all for bringing Bonds to the A's. After all, he's one of the greatest hitters in the history of the game. But, with this new, legally fraught chapter in the Bonds saga just about to begin, I'd really just assume the A's not have anything to do with it.

by kvn on Dec 7, 2007 12:03 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

clause or not

I don't like the whole jail or Oakland dynamic here. It's too messy for me. Maybe you can reconcile all this, but the gravity of Bonds' latest legal status makes it impossible for me to have any enthusiasm if Beane does sign him.

Can you imagine signing Bond, with the opt out clause, and then waiting to find out if he's going to jail. It's not like waiting to see if an injury heals. The stakes are way more intense.

by kvn on Dec 7, 2007 12:17 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

legal experts don't think he'll go to trial

until after the baseball season, and maybe not until 2009, and he can't go to jail until after he goes to trial.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 7, 2007 12:22 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

trials are disruptive, too
Plus, the legal-limbo is still a problem.

But, thanks for shedding light on the 2009 thing. It DOES change things a little to know he's not in any (unless he suddenly excepts a plea deal, I presume) risk of serving time next season.

But, a trial is even harder to avoid than jail time, since it's unavoidable. So, won't he be missing a stretch of time to stand trial during the 2008 season?

Then again, life is sloppy. If we sign him, we'll have to learn to live with uncertainty.

by kvn on Dec 7, 2007 12:51 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

excepts = accepts in my world

...not that I care to correct every error, that one just bugs me.

by kvn on Dec 7, 2007 12:54 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The experts think

that the trial won't even START until after next season.

People forget sometimes how glacially slow the legal system is. Believe me, I work in a law firm, and unless there's a special reason for it to be expedited, cases frequently take 2 years to get to trial-- and these are semi-routine cases where the attorneys aren't publicly going at it hammer and tongs over every last motion and objection.

Add in the (often) incredibly deferential attitude towards athletes on trial (see: Steven Jackson, last year) and I'd be genuinely stunned if Bonds had to make more than a token few court appearances between now and next November.

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Dec 7, 2007 1:07 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

There is nothing stopping the two sides

from making a deal that could impact his playing time for the A's.

From a more practical side; the thing that has made Bonds such a stand out is his eye & hand coordination first, his muscles second.

Near perfect eyesight is a benefit of HGH.

I don't know if the eyes revert to "normal" when you stop being a user or if you go to your grave with the eyesight of an eagle. I do know the eyes of men his age degrade instead of improve.

I wouldn't be surprised if Bonds starts looking really silly at the plate this year.

by A s Eh on Dec 7, 2007 10:14 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

way to use facts
to reach totally illogical conclusions.

yes, the two sides could make a deal that could impact his playing time for the a's...
the two sides, and in this case wouldn't one side NOT want to do that?

yes, eyesight improves with certain PEDs...
didn't bonds have pretty damn good eyesight before he started using PEDs?  is there any evidence that he was using PEDs over the last 2-3 years?  or that if he was, he wouldn't continue to do so now?

yes, eyesight degrades for 40+ year old men like bonds...
he led the NL in OPS in 2007, but one year later his eyesight will degrade to the point where he looks "really silly at the plate"?

jesus, where do you come up with this stuff...

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 8, 2007 8:35 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

some wagers are better than others

Bonds is a great wager.

Omar Minaya is Jim Bowden's beeatch.

by rebus on Dec 8, 2007 11:05 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Only if you like low risk, high reward wagers*...

but where's the sense of excitement in that?

*low risk assessment does not include the possibility of signing Bonds including selling our collective souls to the devil ...

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Dec 8, 2007 11:29 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Not much difference:
'07 vs righties they are even:
223ab  283  486  587   8 dbl  20 hr  88 bb Bonds
271ab  273  424  546  15 dbl  19 hr  72 bb Cust

'07 vs lefties Bonds has a little edge:
117ab  265  470  521   6 dbl   8 hr  44 bb Bonds
124ab  218  374  411   3 dbl   7 hr  33 bb Cust

- Bonds and Cust are basically even until salaries, at that point, Cust looks a lot better!

- Both Bonds and Cust in a lineup is impressive until you subtract the defense of the one in the field.

- An incentives based contract that mirrors Frank Thomas' is a safe contract considering Bonds negatives.

by A s Eh on Dec 8, 2007 3:11 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Ummm ...

that's a HUGE difference

v Righties, Bonds has 60 points of OBP and 40 points of SLG, for 100 points of OPS

v Lefties, Bonds has 100 points of OBP and 110 points of Slg, for 210 points of OPS -- for comparison's sake, that's roughly the difference between Bobby Crosby and Nick Swisher.

Both Bonds and Cust in the lineup is still impressive after you subtract defense. Adding Bonds, while hurting the defense will improve the team by about 2 wins.

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Dec 8, 2007 3:27 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

While Bonds represents the "feared hitter"
in comparisions to Mr. Cust. The 2007 stats don't bear that out. The better power numbers belong to Cust because of the better showing in extra base hits.

It is simply bases on balls that push Barry's 2007 averages beyond Cust's. The A's must decide who bats first knowing Barry will clog the bases.
With Barry behind Cust those XBHs should rise, and the Bondsesque walks.

The A's will need gazelles cheating towards LF at CF, SS, & 3B if Barry stands out there.

I saw your wins figures and agree. I do believe that 2 wins is conservative, the maximum being much greater and Esp. so if Beane improves the A's elsewhere and Bonds gets 450-500 abs.

I just don't like him, his associates, the media and Senate all over the A's.

Give him  Frank's deal and move on to new business.

PS
The funny thing here is with Barry behind Cust, Cust's stats will be the better 'twixt the two!

by A s Eh on Dec 8, 2007 10:36 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Wait, what?

in comparisions to Mr. Cust. The 2007 stats don't bear that out. The better power numbers belong to Cust because of the better showing in extra base hits.

Bonds had a 44.7% XBH percentage last season compared with Cust's 44.6%

It is simply bases on balls that push Barry's 2007 averages beyond Cust's.

Bonds had a better slugging percentage than Cust (completely independent of walks) and a better isolated slugging percentage (also completely independent of walks) than Cust.

by Nate on Dec 8, 2007 11:06 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Cust had more doubles & HRs
I said Cust had more extra base hits based on that.

Nice data though.

by A s Eh on Dec 9, 2007 10:45 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I find this highly unlikely

First, you are mistaken about eyesight; GH does not magically confer near perfect eyesight. GH has been shown to encourage neuronal regeneration, but there are a large number of etiologies that can cause a decrease in visual acuity that are probably not significantly affected by GH supplementation.

Secondly, although there is some evidence for target organ tolerance to GH, there is no evidence of catastrophic failure of any organ system following withdrawal of growth hormone.

by MrIncognito on Dec 8, 2007 12:47 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

What the suppliers claim:

Everyone is different, but generally after a complete six month therapy program you can expect significant results in your apperance, performance and well beign:

1st Month:
Increase in mental sharpness, enthusiasm for life and an elimination of a mild to moderate depression. More energy, better results from exercise and weight control efforts. Better sleep.

2nd Month:
Improved muscle tone, enhanced sexual function, improvement in nail growth, improvement in skin tone, better digestion, increased strength and weight loss. Improved hair growth-thickening of hair with a shiny and healthy appearance.

3rd Month:
Mental processes improve, including desire to do and complete projects, increased muscle size, especially if the individual works out, hair growth, reduction in post menstrual symptoms in women, increased sexual desire, greater body flexibility.

4th Month:
Same as 3rd Month: Generally most improvements are heightened and more consistent.

5th Month:
Impressive weight loss, reduction of inches, since fat is reduced and muscle tissue is increased, toned improvement to skin texture, reduced appearance of wrinkles, Vast improvements of hair growth.

6th Month:
This is a rather significant stage since cellulite greatly diminishes, body is more contoured,

eyesight is greatly improved,

stronger resistance to colds, flu, and other illnesses, some pain and soreness will disappear, old wounds have healed or are healing, excellent exercise tolerance, grayed hair begins to return to natural color, medical test show a reduction in cholesterol (LDL) and triglycerides, blood pressure normalizes, heart rate improves, some conditions due to disease vanish or are diminished and immune system improves.

Do you recommend replacing both HGH and Testosterone at the same time?
Hormones may be replaced separately or in any combination. Better results are obtained from taking a combination of hormones. We like to say there is a 1+1=3 relationship. We understand the cost limitation on growth hormone. The benefits far outweigh the cost.

Castastrophic failure probably never happens.

A regression to "normal sight" for our 44 year old might be more likely, and that is contrary to our interest in Mr. Bonds.

by A s Eh on Dec 9, 2007 11:07 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Kobe Bryant...

flew directly from court appearances in Eagle, CO to games.  One time he arrived after the start of the game, suited up, and put up like 30+ points.

The legal stuff means nothing to me.  I don't think it will affect Bonds' performance; if he was able to block out the media circuses of the past without asking for a restraining order against Pedro Gomez, I think he'll be fine.  For Kobe, the game was his sanctuary from his off-the-court problems; I suspect it will be a similar situation for a similarly narcissistic, amazingly talented athlete.

It also means nothing to me as far as having any impact on my opinion of the man--I'm no legalist, and, honestly, I don't have much respect for those who let the arbitrary arm of the government guide(or interfere with) their ethical judgments.  The law is/was derived from commonly held ethical principles, not the other way around....  

by Cutthemullet on Dec 7, 2007 9:24 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

we can admire his HRs while we wait...
The Warriors are so hot they set the KeyArena scoreboard on FIRE!-some espn commenter

by mikeA on Dec 7, 2007 12:26 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Opt out players have 0 OPS+

...couldn't resist

by A s Eh on Dec 7, 2007 9:37 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Sad sad sad

Sounds like this is going to happen, so I'm bracing myself to accept it. I'm glad Chavvy will be happy, and if we win more games I guess that's a silver lining, too.  I still think it's a bad thing.

I don't dislike Bonds as much as many here do.  Sure, he's a jerk and he did illegal drugs, but I realize that plenty of other players did that too but just aren't as well-known.  But it matters that Bonds is well-known.

We all have our reasons, and this is mine. I truly love the city of Oakland -- it's why I became an A's fan -- and I hate that Oakland has such an undeserved bad reputation. It pains me every time I see someone dismiss Oakland as the grubby and ugly runner-up in San Francisco's shadow. I hate that for so many people who don't know the city, when they think of Oakland all that comes to mind is crime, corruption, and violence.

One of the few things that Oakland had going for it, in terms of reputation, was the Oakland A's.  People who knew a little about baseball would think of the scrappy team of cheerful youngsters beating the odds, and that was good for Oakland.  But the A's also had some of the better known 'roiders -- McGwire, Canseco, Giambi.  That's a bad rap that's been tough to beat.

The day we sign Barry Bonds, all of that comes back, and instantly everyone in the country will be talking about how the A's are the team that loves steroid users, and everyone who already has a bad opinion of Oakland will think, "Yeah, that figures; that's the city with rapists and race riots and motorcycle gangs and political corruption, so what do you expect?"

That's why I will mourn when the A's sign Barry Bonds. Not because I hate Bonds, but because I love Oakland. I don't want to see Oakland's name dragged through the mud again. I know this is a baseball site and we're all supposed to care about baseball more than anything else, but truth to be told, I love Oakland more than I love the Oakland A's. I don't care how many wins it's be worth to the team, it's not worth it.

"Ten times thy self were better than ten Hattebergs" -- Monkeyball, channeling Shakespeare

by iglew on Dec 7, 2007 12:32 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

I truly don't mean to offend here

but why do you like Oakland so much?

I mean, famous people have been making fun of Oakland since at least the 1920s or so (Gertrude Stein)...

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Dec 7, 2007 12:57 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

ha

you weren't around for the 200 times someone mentioned Gertrude Stein and then it was pointed out that she wasn't dissing Oakland...

And not to answer for him, but: Oakland is a great city.

The Warriors are so hot they set the KeyArena scoreboard on FIRE!-some espn commenter

by mikeA on Dec 7, 2007 1:00 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Why is Oakland a great city?

Because it's a great city.

...ok.

What is this, Adventures in Tautologies?

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Dec 7, 2007 1:01 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

We debated tautologies before, remember?

Point taken, but if we're being semantic: the answer "because it's a great city" adds content and is not a tautology. There are many possible reasons that people like or dislike cities that have nothing to do with their quality.

The Warriors are so hot they set the KeyArena scoreboard on FIRE!-some espn commenter

by mikeA on Dec 7, 2007 1:05 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Not just cities.

Teams, baseball players, other people.  Love, like fandom, is not something that can be rationally explained.

"BTW, this is ridiculous..." -- devo

by oblique on Dec 7, 2007 1:07 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Dictionary.com:

"Needless repetition of an idea, esp. in words other than those of the immediate context, without imparting additional force or clearness, as in 'widow woman.'"

Most people like great cities. That's why they're called great. It has no explanatory value. It just (ahem) begs the question: why is the city great? Which is virtually the same question as "why do you like the city"?

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Dec 7, 2007 1:14 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

ah

but you question wasn't "why is Oakland great" (mdl never said it was great) but rather "why do you like it so much?" to which "because it is great" is a perfectly  good answer. For instance: why do I like Dan Haren? Because he's a great pitcher.

The Warriors are so hot they set the KeyArena scoreboard on FIRE!-some espn commenter

by mikeA on Dec 7, 2007 1:18 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Look

If I asked you "Why do you like Dan Haren," and you responded "Because he's a great pitcher," and then declined to elaborate, I would assume one of the following is true:

  1. You don't really know what you're talking about, or
  1. You're being truculent.

If it was an ESPN commentator talking, I'd assume #1. On this site, I'm going with #2.

Now, in the case of the OP, he DID elaborate, so it's okay.

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Dec 7, 2007 8:12 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

don't you want back the truculent?
I'm even surer that you're wrong. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 7, 2007 9:35 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

also

that's a terrible definition.

The Warriors are so hot they set the KeyArena scoreboard on FIRE!-some espn commenter

by mikeA on Dec 7, 2007 1:20 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Why is it a terrible definition?
"BTW, this is ridiculous..." -- devo

by oblique on Dec 7, 2007 1:24 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

because it's terrible
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 7, 2007 1:46 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

QOTM
I'm even surer that you're wrong. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 7, 2007 9:35 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

It's ok as a definition insofar as people

actually use the term that way, but people really shouldn't because it's just confusing. That definition is more or less the definition of "redundancy" which is a perfectly fine word to use. "Tautology" did not mean "redundancy" for most of it's existence.

"Bonds will either help or not help the A's" is a tautology.

"Bonds will help the A's because he will help them win ballgames" is redundant (and question-begging), but it is not a tautology. The key feature of tautologies is that they are always true regardless of the truth of their consituents.

The Warriors are so hot they set the KeyArena scoreboard on FIRE!-some espn commenter

by mikeA on Dec 7, 2007 1:56 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

sure, but i prefer my answer
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 7, 2007 2:09 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Dude, get the f off his back.
"BTW, this is ridiculous..." -- devo

by oblique on Dec 7, 2007 8:36 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I love Oakland ...
  • because no matter how long I've stayed away, it has always felt like home.
  • because who I am is overwhelmingly connected to having grown up there.
  • because there are endless amounts of fun things to do ... and drinks generally don't cost ten dollars (I'm looking at you, San Francisco, New York and the nicer parts of LA).
  • because people don't move there because they're on some silly bohemian chic kick and then pay $1400/mo for a room in a 5-bedroom apartment.
  • because, whether they've lived there their entire lives or are recent transplants, people take real pride in being from Oakland.
  • because it was the original home to the Hell's Angels and the Black Panthers.
  • because it still has quality jobs for real people and people like Nancy Nadel fighting to keep it that way.
  • because it is a city that celebrates its history and doesn't just turn it into some crappy tourist neighborhood.
  • because it is the most diverse city in America.

I could go on and on ... but, suffice it to say, I love Oakland because it's a great city.

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Dec 7, 2007 10:13 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

+1

and +1 more to #4.

I didn't grow up here, but I lived here from age 20 to age 37 (with a one-year interlude in Alameda) and it's overwhelmingly connected to my formation as an adult.  Same idea.

For many reasons, Seattle is the right place for me to live, and I made a deliberate decision to move away from Oakland, but in spite of that I always think of Oakland as my home town.

Oakland has a very cool history.  Part of my interest is idiosyncratic. For instance, I love that Darius Milhaud and Luciano Berio taught at Mills.  That will be completely meaningless to all but five or six members of AN, I think.

"Ten times thy self were better than ten Hattebergs" -- Monkeyball, channeling Shakespeare

by iglew on Dec 7, 2007 11:44 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Two questions

Here you ask me why I love Oakland. Later on you ask why it's a great city, which is quite different.

Way too late for me to give a thorough answer, but as for the love, I don't know, just because I made my home here and found it beautiful.  One doesn't need to justify love.  One just loves.

As for a great city, I'm not sure I'd even make that claim.  I would, however, insist that it's not nearly as bad as it's so often made out to be.  So much of the anti-Oakland stuff is a bad rap.

I like that Oakland has such a rich history, too, which so many of the cities around here don't. San Francisco is older, but by 1880 or so they were equals and remained so until the bridge.

I see you've already been corrected about Gertrude Stein. Oakland has been far more artistically fecund than it's generally given credit for, particularly with regard to literature and music. In classical music, it far outstrips San Francisco, though you'd never know it from how San Franciscans act now.

I also really like how Oakland has kept so much of its great architecture from the art deco era, which is rare to find anywhere else. Nothing in San Francisco or Seattle compares to Oakland's Paramount theater, in my opinion, but maybe that's just my bias again.

"Ten times thy self were better than ten Hattebergs" -- Monkeyball, channeling Shakespeare

by iglew on Dec 7, 2007 3:52 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Art deco ...

there's quite a bit of art deco architecture left in midtown Sacramento, if you're a fan of the stuff ...

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Dec 7, 2007 9:54 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Good to know, thanks
"Ten times thy self were better than ten Hattebergs" -- Monkeyball, channeling Shakespeare

by iglew on Dec 7, 2007 11:45 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

yeah...

because famous people's opinions should always be taken at face value.  By the logic of this post, you contradict yourself later when you deride the ignorance of ESPN commentators.

by Cutthemullet on Dec 7, 2007 9:32 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

First off...

I have very mixed feelings about this. If we won it all this year and Bonds was a big part of it, it just wouldn't taste as sweet as I'd like. But I understand that our chances of winning it all become much, much better with him in the lineup.

Secondly though (already getting over my qualms and thinking about how he could help us win),  I was curious about what you all would think about Bonds going to the opposite field. I know that nothing really needs to change; if puts up the same kind of numbers he did even just last year, that would be more than great. But, I've always wondered, he is such a skilled hitter, it doesn't seem like it would be too hard for him to just poke everything the other way. And with nobody on the left side of the infield because of the full shift, he could probably bat around .800, which would more than make up for the loss in power. I've seen him do a hard bunt into left field before and wondered: why not do that everytime? He'd have 3000 hits in no time.

It seems to me what would eventually happen is opposing teams would simply stop putting on the full shift, and then he could start pulling the ball again with fewer fielders on the right side, again raising his BA/OBP.

So why not?

Any thoughts?

by WhiteElephants on Dec 7, 2007 1:15 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Y did I check AN b4 going to bed, YYY...

now I won't be able to sleep. I'm so excited about the prospect of seeing Bonds in an A's jersey in the middle of our lineup. Funny thing is I decided not to re-up my season tix next yr because of too many commitments, but now I may have to rethink that...

WOW! this is un-bleeping-believable.

Thank you Raider fan! We all get to watch the Pats/Colts game on TV.

by sf drift king on Dec 7, 2007 1:30 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Unidentified Sources

Ahh, so the San Francisco Chronicle is going for a REAL big payday today huh?  Today is Bonds' first court appearance - big media frenzy - so the headline on the paper reads 'A's to sign Bonds' - story ends up reading that it's only a rumor.  It's all about selling newspapers.  Plain and simple.  

Who and what Barry Bonds has become goes against everything that the Oakland A's are, and everything that Oakland A's fans are.

Barry Bonds will never play for the A's.

by NewPosterMojo on Dec 7, 2007 1:35 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

it's susan slusser

i don't think she would want to hurt her credibility with the organization, so obviously the a's are at least interested in signing bonds.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 7, 2007 1:54 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Doesn't sound too good for Slusser...
A's GM Billy Beane wouldn't comment on reports that his team will likely sign free agent Barry Bonds.
An unnamed executive said Thursday that here was "no doubt" in his mind Bonds would land in Oakland. "I'm not going to justify something that somebody wants to make up because they talked to somebody who thinks they know what we're doing," Beane said. "It's a complete waste of my time."

by NewPosterMojo on Dec 9, 2007 12:19 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You don't like Bonds, fine.

I don't particularly like Bonds either.

But, are you saying that the people who want Bonds on the team are not "real" fans? Why? Because you say so?

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Dec 7, 2007 4:18 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

This is ridiculous

The A's have had plenty of high-profile steroid users. They've had plenty of moody, slugging assholes, too. (See: Kingman, Dave.)

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Dec 7, 2007 8:16 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I think you're deluded...

about what the Oakland A's are.  Who and what Barry Bonds has become, which is the greatest player ever, is actually exactly in line with what the A's front office's primary concern is--performance on the field.

by Cutthemullet on Dec 7, 2007 9:36 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Some might find this interesting.

There have been 198 posts in this diary up to this point by 21 different usernames.  Twenty-one.

by NewPosterMojo on Dec 7, 2007 2:11 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

What's your point?

That certain posters here are regular posters?

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Dec 7, 2007 4:20 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

22

Still not getting your point.

by Nate on Dec 7, 2007 8:36 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm pretty sure he just called me "fat."
"BTW, this is ridiculous..." -- devo

by oblique on Dec 7, 2007 8:38 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

one of us *must* be oaktoon
I'm even surer that you're wrong. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 7, 2007 9:37 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

oh yeah,

whatever happened to oaktoon?!?

by arch on Dec 7, 2007 12:03 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

...?

High post to user ratio, indicating hot-button topic?  Is that what you're implying?  Because I don't know of any significance of the number 21 in relation to Bonds otherwise...number of home runs he'll have by the ASB?

by Cutthemullet on Dec 7, 2007 9:38 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Why is this even news?

The headline of the Slusser article is completely misleading since there is absolutely nothing in the article to support it.  There's one GM who thinks Bonds will sign with the A's.  Wow, that's shocking.  There's also one GM that gave Kaz Matsui $16.5MM and yet another who thought GMJ was worth $50MM+.  Ya, great predictors of future performance of others these GM's.    

THERE IS NO NEWS HERE - JUST A PUFF PIECE WITH A BIG HEADLINE

Signatures? We don't need no stinking signatures.

by jubjub on Dec 7, 2007 5:54 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Kaz Matsui

Probably the most reasonable contract until Bonds signs.

by Cutthemullet on Dec 7, 2007 9:40 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

different definition of reasonable

a 32-year-old 2nd basemen with a .637 OPS away from Coors Field is worth $16.5MM??????  The Astros probably overpaid by about 2 years and $15MM.

Signatures? We don't need no stinking signatures.

by jubjub on Dec 7, 2007 12:17 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

fair point...fair point
I didn't look at the splits before I posted, wrongly assuming that they wouldn't have been all that great because a. Coors wasn't as much of a hitters' park this year and b. Kaz isn't exactly a power hitter.  Though Enron (it will always be Enron to me) is a hitters' park in its own right, I don't think he's going to make 'Stros fans forget Craig Biggio anytime soon (even late-career Biggio).

Also, I had him in fantasy, and I didn't recall catching onto that trend during the season, either.  Probably because he stole bases, and that's golden in fantasy.

by Cutthemullet on Dec 9, 2007 2:56 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus

by The Dogfather on Dec 7, 2007 7:37 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

NO BILLY!!!! NO!!!!!
I'll have a sandwich and a draft - Bill King (RIP) http://culinarymiscreant.blogspot.com/

by BleedGreen on Dec 7, 2007 8:07 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

FIRE MACHA NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry, got caught up in the screaming and I never got to say it when he was here....

by 5Aces on Dec 7, 2007 9:17 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yuppies are opposed.

The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus

by The Dogfather on Dec 7, 2007 8:43 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

I <3 Bonds

I'm a fan of the A's. I'm a fan of Bonds. I'm a fan of winning. I'm a fan of Beane. I'm a fan of smart, performance-vs-salary-optimizing acquisitions.

I'm even surer that you're wrong. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 7, 2007 9:40 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Christ, what an asshole.
"It is almost impossible to exaggerate the complete unimportance of almost everything."

by Poppy on Dec 7, 2007 9:51 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

heh heh heh
I'm even surer that you're wrong. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 7, 2007 10:01 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The clergy is aghast.

The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus

by The Dogfather on Dec 7, 2007 9:45 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Ban me for life ...
...for this comment if you must.

DO NOT put that piece of shit in an A's uniform.

I wish I had not sent in my money for season tickets yesterday.

2nd favorite team: WHOEVER IS PLAYING THE GIANTS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by ConcordFanSince1968 on Dec 7, 2007 9:50 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Even skunks are fleeing the stench.

The meaning of life is not so much 'found,' as it is 'made.' --Opus

by The Dogfather on Dec 7, 2007 10:03 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

rehashing old rumor?

Let's recap some events.

Nov. 7 ESPN publishes results from survey of 15 GM's.
The location most agreed on (only 3 mind you) is that Bonds will be in Oakland.