Bonds to sign with the A's?
Front page material from the SF Chronicle. Written by Susan Slusser, no less. An earth-shattering move by the A's if so. Bonds is an unpopular personality right now. Then there's this pending appearance at the Federal Courts in SF tomorrow. Makes it a real headache. But Billy Beane, ever the genius, believes he can sort thru this madness and the team can come out a winner with this signing. If it ever happens.
Update [2007-12-7 1:34:31 by arch]: As much of a freak show Bonds is, we have to admit the guy generates tremendous buzz. He is a polarizing figure, but he electrifies enough to fill stadium seats and excite national media. Heck, the attention it'll bring will be great for the fans, the team and the owners.
Currently, we have nothing but a ho-hum team, but man, insert Bonds in the line-up and all of us get chills down our spine. Bonds even if vilified, will transform our team to an instant contender.
Bring it on.
0 recs |
347 comments
Comments
WOO HOO!!
(i have not read the story yet, only the headline)
by xbhaskarx on Dec 6, 2007 9:01 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
here it is, for those too lazy to click:
"There is no doubt in my mind that Oakland will sign Bonds," one major-league executive said Thursday as the winter meetings wound down. "I'd be shocked if it didn't happen."
Two other teams also have expressed interest in Bonds, an industry source said. Bonds is most likely a fit for an American League club, so that he could serve as a designated hitter. The A's, though, apparently have told Bonds that if he signs with them, he would appear in left field with some frequency. The home run king would be splitting DH duties with Jack Cust.
by xbhaskarx on Dec 6, 2007 9:02 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Best part
Beane also likes to make a splash. He didn't do so at the winter meetings, despite heavy speculation that he would trade Dan Haren and/or Joe Blanton. And though the GM still could decide to move one of those starters, if he does not, signing Bonds would dwarf most other offseason baseball news.
by arch on Dec 6, 2007 9:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Who are
the "other two teams" I wonder.
by IM4Oakgal on Dec 6, 2007 9:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
**** em
by xbhaskarx on Dec 6, 2007 9:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If we take our time
we can **** 'em all.
by grover on Dec 6, 2007 10:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Your next diary title
How to **** them all in three easy steps. :-)
by IM4Oakgal on Dec 6, 2007 10:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I was going to skip the foreplay...
but OK, 3 steps it is.
by grover on Dec 6, 2007 10:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
by IM4Oakgal on Dec 6, 2007 10:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Damn straight (pardon the pun)
I can get ready in a minute. And like them patriots of old I always hit the mark.
by grover on Dec 6, 2007 10:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Woohoo! totally called it!
My post from yesterday (scroll down about 4 diaries) just became a lot more relevant! Bring on Bonds.
I do fully accept that I'm endorsing a cheater, but I don't endorse the fact that Bonds is an asshole. A prick? probably, but I'd say its more likely that Kent and Sheffield are bigger jerks. I don't see Bonds being a cancer for a team like the A's that actually wants to win.
Projected Awesomeness now:
LF Buck (L)
CF Swisher (switch)
DH Bonds (L)
LF Cust (L)
2B Ellis (R)
1B Barton (L)
3B Chavez (L)
C Suzuki (R)
SS Crosby (R)
Seems lefty heavy....but when your lefties include Buck and Bonds, who can handle left-handed pitching, its okay that Chavez and Cust truly suck wind against them. Still, its too bad we don't have a righty power threat.
But...I think a Bonds signing would mean that the A's win the West, assuming the lineup stays healthy and just one of the following "IFs" comes true:
IF Harden stays healthy
IF Duke is an effective starter
IF Crosby produces
by SwisherSweet on Dec 6, 2007 9:07 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I'd say LF defense should be pretty good ...
by devo on Dec 6, 2007 9:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
With all that offense
who needs a RF?
by mikeA on Dec 6, 2007 9:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i think buck in CF not swisher
but hell, who cares.
and we have denorfia, hannahan, murphy and bowen on the bench, backing up key positions. that is acutally a pretty damn good offensive team.
by xbhaskarx on Dec 6, 2007 9:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Barton to AAA
If Beane signs Barry Bonds I won't be shocked if Barton starts the season at AAA, Swisher will play 1B, Cust LF, Kotsay/Denorfia CF and Buck RF...
Of course Barton will be ready to replace the first injury/slumping player for that group
by Olijerez77 on Dec 7, 2007 5:54 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Chavex vs lefties...
Chavez splits:
2003 .271 .403 .220 vs left, .387 .567 .312 vs right
2004 .412 .481 .306 vs left, .388 .514 .257 vs right
2005 .328 .421 .264 vs left, .329 .489 .271 vs right
2006 .311 .339 .197 vs left, .364 .469 .257 vs right
2007 .306 .446 .240 vs left, .314 .465 .244 vs right
I think it is hard to say that Chavez truly sucks against left handed pitching. He appears to have turned that around in 2004, 2005. 2006 and 2007 are hard to say due to the injuries. I would like to see a 2004 Chavez.
Anyways, as I usually say about the lefty/righty thing. 2/3 of all at bats are vs right handed hitting.
by Donner on Dec 7, 2007 11:36 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
There is some reason to believe
that his platoon splits would be exacerbated by the particular injury he had.
Chavez's injuries seemed to slow his bat speed down as the primary influence on his actual performance at the plate. A lot more weak contact, a lot more swingthroughs on fastballs.
A slow bat is going to be more of an issue against pitchers of the same handedness. The reaction time has to be quicker because the ball is released from the pitcher's hand closer to where the player is standing.
Now, whether this effect is actually significant or not... you'd have to get a physicist and a doctor to tell you that.
In any event, Chavez has always had a fairly significant platoon split for his career. This is why in my article on platoons, I suggested that the A's at least open the season with Murphy getting the starts against left-handed pitching.
by PaulThomas on Dec 7, 2007 12:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hell yea
Im all for it. This could be the start of a sick lineup:
Buck
Swisher
Chavez
Bonds
Cust
Barton
Ellis
Suzuki
Short Stop(I just don't want to put down Crosby)
I think that with a lineup like this and our starting pitching, that we will more than contend in the AL west in 2008. Im not scared of the Angels lineup as it currently stands, and as ive seen mentioned in other diaries maybe Bonds will be the confidance factor that Chavez needs to finally put some real offensive numbers. Chavez has said on numerous occasions that he is a huge fan of Bonds, and would take the pressure off of Chavez to be the big bat in the lineup. He can be the good bat in the middle of the lineup surrounded by power, like he was during the Giambi and Miggy days...
by Shippee33 on Dec 6, 2007 9:12 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
all the b lamar b haters (both bonds and beane)
need to read the article before whining.
bonds and the a's are an ideal fit for each other.
also consider this:
would you rather we trade haren and blanton and whoever else we can, totally blow up the team for prospects, and next compete in cisco field, or do you want the a's to sign bonds and maybe bartolo colon and try to win the west? because unless you're a billionaire willing to buy the team right now and run it at a huge loss out of the goodness of your heart, those are really the only two viable options.
by xbhaskarx on Dec 6, 2007 9:16 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Get to work, Billy!
by mikeA on Dec 6, 2007 9:18 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I'd like the Bonds signing..
He is the bat that we have dreamed of...and I like that it will give a big FU to the media.
by IM4Oakgal on Dec 6, 2007 9:22 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
and the giants
maybe the a's could actually win over 71 games with him.
by xbhaskarx on Dec 6, 2007 9:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah and...
the signing would make Oz so happy.
by IM4Oakgal on Dec 6, 2007 9:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
see my reply above
by xbhaskarx on Dec 6, 2007 9:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If Bonds is signed, that means...
that we'll be seeing Swisher or Buck in Centerfield, and personally, I think I'd like to try Buck in Center. But whatever works.
Yeah, we'll have crappy OF defense, but we lived through Ben Grieve, didn't we? And hey, I'll take crap outfield defense for a good offense anyday, especially since we've sucked offensivly the last few years.
And if Bonds trial really will start AFTER the season, then all the better.
Since everyone else is throwing their everyday lineup out there, here's the lineup I would throw out there.
CF Travis Buck
1B Daric Barton
RF Nick Swisher
DH Barry Bonds
LF Jack Cust
3B Eric Chavez
2B Mark Ellis
C1 Kurt Suzuki
SS Bobby Murphy
Especially if Chavez bounces back, that is one hell of a Top 6. Ellis is solid enough for a #7 hitter, and Suzuki can probably hold his own in the 8th spot. And of course, we have the pitcher in the 9th spot.
by Zonis on Dec 6, 2007 9:31 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I bet
that Chavez can't even play until July. Or if he does he re-injures his shoulder immediately.
by IM4Oakgal on Dec 6, 2007 9:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
think positive thoughts please
save that for later, this is the most excited i've been about the a's in like two years.
by xbhaskarx on Dec 6, 2007 9:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
two years is a bit of a stretch
by mikeA on Dec 6, 2007 9:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The AlCS
In 2006 didn't excite you ? Frank didn't excite you ?
by IM4Oakgal on Dec 6, 2007 9:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
how many years ago was that?
i almost stopped following a's baseball entirely for like two months this summer, so 2006 is like three years ago for me.
by xbhaskarx on Dec 6, 2007 9:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
X?
Then if you did that...you better not call the Giant's fans fairweather because ...well. Pot? meet Kettle. (g)
by IM4Oakgal on Dec 6, 2007 9:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
well you know me
by xbhaskarx on Dec 6, 2007 9:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah but you went by the name
Randy Bell back then.
by IM4Oakgal on Dec 6, 2007 9:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
QOTM, AN user meta-division
by FreeSeatUpgrade on Dec 6, 2007 10:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
His infamous last words:
Santiago Casilla!
Conspiracy theory time.
by JediLeroy on Dec 7, 2007 10:54 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
AN Favorite Will Caroll says...
that besides the A's, only the Cards had any interest in Bonds.
by Zonis on Dec 6, 2007 9:39 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
...
Travis (San Diego): What are your thoughts on Rich Harden? Does he still have the potential to return to his dominating ways, or is he destined to a Prior-like future?
Will Carroll: Interesting binary possibility. I think Harden's more like Kerry Wood -- you have to give him one more spring to try and be a starter, but after that, he's got nowhere left to go but the pen. I've heard some really strange theories on how this will play out, but I think with the A's new medical staff, we'll see a standard spring for Harden with a lot of hope.
by Zonis on Dec 6, 2007 9:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
...
David (Woodland): How significant are the A's medical issues and the front office? Bobby Crosby seemed pretty upset over his myriad of issues and it was rumored he was looking into a lawsuit (very rumored). I have only heard good things about Walt Horn who was moved to Oakland from Sacramento.
Will Carroll: I think the changes will be a plus. Some of it's bad luck and some of it needs to be placed on the players themselves, but sometimes taking on risk will bite you. It just seemed to all bite at once with the A's last year. If there's any consolation, it's that the A's learn and adjust as quickly as anyone.
by Zonis on Dec 6, 2007 9:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
...
Manprin (Sacramento): Will - hope there is decent coffee to be found in Nashville. What is Chris Denofria's place with the A's? Will his rehab continue through Spring Training or could he break camp on the 25 Man Roster? What are the odds Eric Chavez moves to 1st base if he can swing a bat (rarely touch the ball...) but surgery to both shoulders hampering his throwing ability? I'd rather not ask about Bobby Crosby, Mark Kotsay or Rich Harden.
Will Carroll: Coffee stinks.
I think Denorfia's going to be ready. I haven't checked on him in a while, but no reason to believe that he won't be back from TJ. I'd say that Chavez could move, but that would limit the A's options in a lot of ways given their current roster. Like Scott Rolen, I think Chavez can probably stay at 3B.
by Zonis on Dec 6, 2007 9:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Scott Rolen thinks Chavez can stay at third base?
by monkeyball on Dec 7, 2007 9:18 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Rolen's quite opinionated...
about the A's handling of Chavez.
by Cutthemullet on Dec 7, 2007 9:41 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
In other news, LaRussa went on a 10-minute rant
about how Chavez needs to move to first.
by PaulThomas on Dec 7, 2007 9:50 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
**** them and their drunk driving manager
also, no way the cardinals fans would tolerate bonds on their team (yes, irony).
by xbhaskarx on Dec 6, 2007 9:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If it happens this will be a great test
juxtaposing my general feeling that I want my team to sign great players not great choir boys with my opinion that Barry Bonds is the Alpha Dickhead of this generation of ballplayers.
One thought, though: it sure would behoove his agent Jeff "the other" Borris to promote the idea that "industry sources" say there are multiple interested teams.
by FreeSeatUpgrade on Dec 6, 2007 9:54 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
i hate barry bonds
he's a steroids user and an a-hole on just about every level. but he's pretty damn good at baseball, and i hate rooting for a 70 win team way more than i hate bonds.
also, he would not be the first a-hole or the first steroids user to ever wear the oakland a's uniform.
by xbhaskarx on Dec 6, 2007 9:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
See, I don't care about the steroids part
just about the dickhead part. And I suspect I'll yell myself hoarse for him when he steps up in the 9th down a run. But of all the players the A's picked up in my lifetime of rooting for them, he would be by orders of magnitude the one I'd previously loathed the most. Kenny Rogers isn't even close.
by FreeSeatUpgrade on Dec 6, 2007 10:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah but think about it this way
if bonds wasn't such a huge dickhead, there would be no chance of him signing with the a's next year.
fact.
obvious.com
by xbhaskarx on Dec 6, 2007 10:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
points of rebuttal
- We only "know" that Bonds is a dickhead because he's been a dickhead to sportswriters. Given human nature; the societal license given to athletes, large (mostly) attractive men, wealthy men, and prominent successes; the sense of entitlement that comes from being a "legacy" or a Tony Montanaesque social striver; and a wealth of anecdotal and historical evidence, I think we can safely assume that Bonds is neither alone nor unparalleled in his dickheadedness.
- Kenny Rogers hadn't yet fully ascended Mt Dickhead when he was with the A's.
- Jose Canseco doesn't even give Bonds a run for his money?
by monkeyball on Dec 7, 2007 9:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I also hate Barry Bonds
but I'm really torn. I want the A's to win very badly, but I'm going to have a very hard time rooting for Bonds. If they do sign him, it's going to be fascinating to see how so many react. So many people have hated him on this site for years. I know I'm not going to wholeheartedly embrace him, but damn he's going to give our lineup some pop. And the A's will be a the national stage in a way that they haven't been since the glory days of the Bash Brothers. There will be swarms of media around and you can bet your bottom dollar that the A's will be featured on Sunday Night Baseball and the Fox game of the week all that time.
by Tyler Bleszinski on Dec 6, 2007 11:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If he hits well
people will get over it and so will you. If he sucks... then we will all get into a hatin on Bonds frenzy!
by IM4Oakgal on Dec 6, 2007 11:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
For me ...
it will probably be like when Canseco was on the team ... I hated the guy ... even when I was too young to understand the fairly good reasons to do so. So I booed him on and then celebrated as loudly as anyone when the A's won because of him.
by devo on Dec 7, 2007 12:53 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Blez,
you'll hate him after he turns you down for that AN on-line interview for the 3rd consecutive time.. lol
by sf drift king on Dec 7, 2007 1:20 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe after he signs
Bonds will want to do a weekly write in for AN!
by grover on Dec 7, 2007 1:46 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This is such good news,
If it comes to pass. I was so dreading re-building. I just couldn't believe that Beane would do it with the kind of potential that the A's currently possess. I am too old to be enthusiastic about rebuilding for the future.
by IM4Oakgal on Dec 6, 2007 10:01 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure that follows
though I want to believe it. If Beane's able to get Bonds at a value price, and then factors in the buzz and attendance benefits, a Bonds deal pays off even if the A's are out of it by July. And if the contract in turn lets Beane spin Bonds off in the summer to a contender for prospects, well, so much the better.
by FreeSeatUpgrade on Dec 6, 2007 10:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I just don't want to believe that.
and so... at this point... I refuse to entertain that thought. So there!
by IM4Oakgal on Dec 6, 2007 10:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If beane signs Bonds
I wonder what move(s) the Halos would make to counter it? Could that push them towards Santana maybe?
by IM4Oakgal on Dec 6, 2007 10:10 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
i think beane is counting on the angels
not being willing to give up the prospects necessary to get santana.
by xbhaskarx on Dec 6, 2007 10:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Probably right.
It seems that most of the teams have decided not to give up their prospects for a proven ace. A good move for some , but not other teams IMO.
by IM4Oakgal on Dec 6, 2007 10:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Stoneman wouldn't
Reagins seems anxious to prove himself.
Santana, Lackey, Garland, Escobar and Weaver beats our starting 5.
They were willing to part with some choice pieces to get Cabrera, why wouldn't they do the same for Santana? They have the $$$ to keep him, to sign him to the extension he supposedly wants.
by grover on Dec 6, 2007 10:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Remember, the Angels are arrogant
They think that they don't need power to win. They think that smallball beats big ball. They also think that "team chemistry" is everything. I expect the Angels to behave as though this is no upgrade for Oakland.
And, you know, they may be right. But not for the reasons they think.
by PaulThomas on Dec 6, 2007 11:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Tjey will be right if...
Barry shrinks down to the size of Willie Mays without his PEDS. ;-)
by IM4Oakgal on Dec 6, 2007 11:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The Angels also think good pitching wins
Santana would improve anyone's rotation. I don't know if they do the deal or not. Two years ago, Stoneman sits on his hands. The new guy... we'll see.
by grover on Dec 6, 2007 11:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe this is one reason the deal isnt done yet
Beane waits until the Santana deal is over, which effectively takes care of all the big pieces that everyone believes the Halo's can go after.
Then he swoops in to make his move.
by 5Aces on Dec 7, 2007 8:44 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Arch?
I will have to unrecommend your diary if it has no text.
by IM4Oakgal on Dec 6, 2007 10:20 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
It's sad for our organization
that they can find no method of fielding a potentially winning team other than becoming the biggest fucking sellouts on the planet.
One winning season brought to us by a hired gun like Bonds means nothing to me. Even if they go all the way. I want to see real change, I want to know why WE're not the ones to find the David Ortizes, to draft the Travis Hafners and the Albert Pujolses. Hell, even the Dustin Pedroias. We seem to top out at Chavez and Swisher, and as we can see, that's not enough, and it was a long time ago.
That's the only way I'm going to get excited about this club. My biggest hope is that for whatever reason he ends up playing in about 15 games, we lose all of them, and Buck, Barton, Cust and Swisher step up and win a goddamn championship anyway.
And before you all go jumping on me for being a "hater" or whatever the fuck, just because I don't happen to agree with you that this is a good thing for the A's, go through my posting history and try to find something negative I've said about the guy. I believe the only thing I've ever posted about Bonds on this site was actually positive after one of his radio interviews with Ray Taliaferro (or however the hell that's spelled). It's not about him, to me, it's about the organization and what I really want to see out of it.
by oblique on Dec 6, 2007 10:22 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Why "sellouts," though?
Seems to me that signing an HOF player for 25 cents on the dollar is pretty much exactly what the Athletics organization in the Beane era is all about: finding value beyond their economic restrictions. Whether that value comes through advanced player evaluation metrics, injury rehab projects, or embracing guys with bad reps is secondary...what they'd be doing, seems to me, is right in line with the franchise approach. (and mind you, I don't like Bonds, do think the A's are better off rebuilding, and don't assume that a Bonds signing means going for it in 2008.)
by FreeSeatUpgrade on Dec 6, 2007 10:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I respect that
you feel as unhappy as some of us do happy at the thought of Bonds. For me, I am past the point in my life where I sit in judgement of other people and their weaknesses. Bonds broke the law. But after all it all boils down to what he put in his own body. that kind of mitigates the crime IMO. Yes, he lied and he deserves to be prosecuted for obstruction of justice but he doesn't deserve to be public enemy number 1... As for his personality flaws? We all have them and his are real and magnified by the press.
Bottom line = he helps the team.
by IM4Oakgal on Dec 6, 2007 10:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually I don't care about all that stuff.
It's the whole approach I'm sick of.
by oblique on Dec 6, 2007 10:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
What?
Rebuilding is overrated. The fan experience for that sucks bigtime.
by IM4Oakgal on Dec 6, 2007 10:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't believe I said anything about rebuilding.
And what's the fan experience for watching a 45 year old fat guy with a bad attitude, and knowing that the organization thinks that he's your last hope?
by oblique on Dec 6, 2007 10:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I kind of liked...
...Watching an old fat guy named Frank Thomas on our ALCS team, but maybe that's just me.
by Travis Buck Nuckin on Dec 6, 2007 11:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
TBN? But but but...
Frank wasn't homegrown! How could you enjoy him? ( MkT? Now ..This is mockery).
by IM4Oakgal on Dec 6, 2007 11:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
don't ridicule mkt, hell don't even joke around
with him, he may harbor that shit for months...
by xbhaskarx on Dec 6, 2007 11:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
and that's my point too.
This is just joking around with him...nothing malicious intended at all. That's why I said overly sensitive.
by IM4Oakgal on Dec 6, 2007 11:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm telling my therapist on you.
And maybe Nico will lend me a sheep for comfort.
by oblique on Dec 6, 2007 11:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
See? Now that was funny. You lightened up...good for you.
by IM4Oakgal on Dec 6, 2007 11:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
<rolls eyes>
by oblique on Dec 6, 2007 11:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You're officially in trouble with Santa.
by oblique on Dec 6, 2007 11:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i'm confused...
how are the a's sellouts?
is free agency not available to us, even when we're exploiting market inefficiencies to pick up an undervalued commodity completely in line with the organizational philosophy?
in fact, even if we paid full value for bonds, he's the epitome of the a's organizational philosophy in terms of plate discipline, obp, etc.
by xbhaskarx on Dec 6, 2007 10:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, it's available.
Probably if Bonds were associated with a team other than the Giants, I would not feel that this was a sellout. I do feel that in our market, the SF Bay, it's a move worthy of ridicule. Even if the A's win a championship, it'll be "Oh, well they had to sign the ultimate Giant to do it." It's like a smaller version of why I can't understand how people root for the Yankees.
by oblique on Dec 6, 2007 10:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
no, if the a's win it will be
"the giants had the best hitter since babe ruth (if not the best hitter ever) in possibly the best stretch of offensive production in baseball history, and couldn't win with him, whereas the a's picked him up when he was 43 and no one else wanted him, and won."
by xbhaskarx on Dec 6, 2007 10:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Who cares?
We aren't in Jr. High school. Let them talk. and let us give them something to talk and whine about. Sour grapes from the Giants fans would actually amuse me slightly.
by IM4Oakgal on Dec 6, 2007 10:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You don't live on the Peninsula, do you? :-)
by oblique on Dec 6, 2007 10:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
and let's remember
this is mkt afraid of what giants fans will say if the a's win a championship while the giants are scoring 2.7 runs a game and going for 100 losses.
by xbhaskarx on Dec 6, 2007 10:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Get the f off my back dude.
I don't know why you insist on jumping all over me every time I post anything, but there is a legitimate alternate viewpoint here, and that's that some of us would rather root for a team of home grown talent than a team of old guys who earned their stripes elsewhere.
by oblique on Dec 6, 2007 10:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Calm down.
This is a place to discuss views. He's rebutting yours not denigrating YOU personally.
As for your comment...one old guy doesn't make a team full of old guys.
by IM4Oakgal on Dec 6, 2007 10:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No, in his posts where he presented his view
or asked a question, I responded in kind. If he's going to resort to mocking me for having an opposing viewpoint, I will call him on it.
by oblique on Dec 6, 2007 10:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
you say i'm mocking you...
"this is mkt afraid of what giants fans will say if the a's win a championship while the giants are scoring 2.7 runs a game and going for 100 losses."
but isn't that exactly what you admit you're afraid of, based on your previous comment?
by xbhaskarx on Dec 6, 2007 10:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No.
by oblique on Dec 6, 2007 11:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
how is that different from this
Probably if Bonds were associated with a team other than the Giants, I would not feel that this was a sellout. I do feel that in our market, the SF Bay, it's a move worthy of ridicule. Even if the A's win a championship, it'll be "Oh, well they had to sign the ultimate Giant to do it."
by xbhaskarx on Dec 7, 2007 12:00 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It's not about what fans will say to me.
When I wrote it, it was in response to the idea that the A's will get more media attention. I don't think that's going to happen, at least, not in a positive way.
by oblique on Dec 7, 2007 12:33 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well your feelings about it are yours.
But IMO...you are being overly sensitive to teasing.
by IM4Oakgal on Dec 6, 2007 10:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
To each his/her own
I guess my line's in a different place than his and yours, but it's served me pretty well so far.
by oblique on Dec 6, 2007 11:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
how am i jumping on your back?
of course it's a legitimate alternative viewpoint to be worried that fans of a big market 67-95 giants team will ridicule you if the a's happen to win a world series with a player their team discarded.
i mean, i guess i can't fully understand it because i don't live on the peninsula, but that scenario would be really really terrible, i'm sure everyone can see that clear as day...
by xbhaskarx on Dec 6, 2007 10:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It's not about their fans ridiculing me
as much as it is about what kind of team I would prefer to root for.
by oblique on Dec 6, 2007 10:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
dude, me mocking you for having a viewpoint
giants fans ridiculing you for rooting for a championship team... it's a hard life out there on the peninsula.
by xbhaskarx on Dec 6, 2007 10:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Must be nice.
by oblique on Dec 6, 2007 11:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I hear that.
Homegrown teams are more fun...to me too...if they are winning. But give me some hired guns if they aren't.
by IM4Oakgal on Dec 6, 2007 11:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It will be hard for the Giants fans to ridicule
a winning team. They have the money and yet still cannot get it together and combine building and buying to make a winning team. So F them if we take their discard and use him to help our talented young men bring winning back to the bay area baseball fans.
by IM4Oakgal on Dec 6, 2007 11:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
and can you provide me with examples (ie links)
of where i have jumped all over you every time you post anything, please?
by xbhaskarx on Dec 6, 2007 10:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
OK, so it was once
and I apologize for overstating it.
http://www.athleticsnation.com/comme...
That said, it was the last time I bothered to post a dissenting opinion on this site.
by oblique on Dec 6, 2007 11:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe you were confusing yourself with
A's eh.
by mikeA on Dec 6, 2007 11:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Somebody call?
...anyone seen X-man? I can't find a sign of him anywhere!
Did the A's lose two games in a row?
by A s Eh on Dec 7, 2007 8:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
that's hilarious
and how are your efforts to turn hannahan into a CF based on his OPS coming along?
by xbhaskarx on Dec 8, 2007 8:23 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not smart enough to come up with Hannahan
...the A's mentioned they would try him in the OF towards the end of last season.
...I believe it was right after the 23rd 2007 A's outfield variation.
- He reacts to the ball quickly.
- Throws with accuracy.
- What little I saw of his footwork at 3B has looked good.
- Handled the foul areas well.
- He is 27 and the A's have 6 years contract control if the A's desire.
- Chavez looks to be our 3B defender through at least 3 of those years.
- If his hitting does not improve it looks great coming at CF.
- If his hitting does improve it looks great coming at CF.
Hannahan seems to fit the A's if he can add some versatility. Carlos Beltran, Torii, Wells, no one will mistake him for those guys but he can add value by backing up more than 3B.
IMO
by A s Eh on Dec 8, 2007 10:11 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
wow
that must have been terrible for you. seriously. everyone should read that as an example of how dissenting opinions are shouted down around here....
by xbhaskarx on Dec 6, 2007 11:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It was, man.
Years of therapy. F*#$er.
by oblique on Dec 6, 2007 11:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
well can you explain
what exactly was so terrible and traumatizing about that exchange?
if it's such a big deal that you think i insist on jumping all over you every time you post anything, and it was the last time you bothered to post a dissenting opinion on this site, i'd really like to know.
by xbhaskarx on Dec 6, 2007 11:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Who said terrible/traumatizing?
If it were "terrible and traumatizing" I would have addressed it immediately and directly. It was annoying, as was your mocking tone with me today.
I did not intend to imply a causal relationship between that exchange and the fact that I haven't bothered to post my opinions here; the statement above ("that said...") was actually meant to be self-mocking since I could only find the one episode, after saying "every time" earlier.
"Years of therapy" was a joke (it could clearly only have been months, since then... ;-) ).
Anything else?
by oblique on Dec 6, 2007 11:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
okay got it
so when you say
"I don't know why you insist on jumping all over me every time I post anything"
what you mean is
"I don't know why you annoyed me in one episode back in October"
glad we got that straightened out.
by xbhaskarx on Dec 7, 2007 12:20 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And I did apologize for it
over an hour ago. Why are you still stewing about it?
by oblique on Dec 7, 2007 12:22 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
"still stewing about it"
by xbhaskarx on Dec 7, 2007 12:33 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Especially when said old guys
are not particularly appealing.
by oblique on Dec 6, 2007 10:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
from the article
Bonds fits the A's criteria in many ways. First, he'll be relatively cheap, given all the off-the-field issues around him, plus he's 43 and his playing time occasionally is limited by injuries. Second, Oakland almost annually brings in a prominent player on the downside of a good career: Mike Piazza, Frank Thomas, David Justice, Ron Gant, Eric Karros, et al. And as one insider said Thursday, "Bonds is the ultimate. Frank Thomas is a great player, but even he can't hold a candle to Bonds."
were the a's sellouts for signing justice, gant, karros, thomas, and piazza?
there's an interesting exchange in moneyball where lewis asks depodesta about justice and depo tells him justice is on the team as an experiment, to see how a good hitter at the end of his career performs.
by xbhaskarx on Dec 6, 2007 10:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
See my reply above
by oblique on Dec 6, 2007 10:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you've made a lot of good points
on this issue but now you stretch too far. Bonds has a Hell of a lot more baggage than Piazza, Thomas, etc etc. It's the baggage that would have people calling the A's sell-outs. I think the term's a joke but those other players don't deserve to be cast in the same suspicious light that Bonds is in.
by grover on Dec 6, 2007 10:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah and it's also different because
"Bonds is the ultimate. Frank Thomas is a great player, but even he can't hold a candle to Bonds."
by xbhaskarx on Dec 6, 2007 11:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, cause the whole "sell out"
issue is centered around how much gas those other guys had left in their tanks.
Bonds juiced. His head swelled up to twice its original size. Those other guys, well, you can't really say the same.
by grover on Dec 6, 2007 11:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
well then the a's sold out a long time ago
with canseco, mcgwire, giambi, giambi, tejada, guillen....
guillen had HGH delivered to the oakland coliseum address just a few years ago.
by xbhaskarx on Dec 6, 2007 11:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
and he's a total asshole,
he's just not as good as bonds.
by xbhaskarx on Dec 6, 2007 11:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Do you hear me defending any of those guys?
Have I said anything (serious) about not signing Bonds? The closest I've come to doing that is saying folks would leave if it happened.
What I am complaining about is Bonds is dirty, those other guys (Piazza, Thomas, Justice and the rest) weren't. Or at least they were smart enough to not be obvious and get caught. You're smearing them in an attempt to defend Bonds and that, my friend, is complete and utter bullshit.
by grover on Dec 6, 2007 11:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
wait, how am i smearing them?
justice, gant, karros, thomas, and piazza were compared to bonds in the article. the only thing i ever implied they had in common with bonds was that they were good hitters at the end of their careers.
then you mentioned juice, and i created a separate list of a's players: canseco, mcgwire, giambi, giambi, tejada, guillen.
by xbhaskarx on Dec 6, 2007 11:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That's bullshit and you know it
Sell out isn't about Bonds being an asshole, it's about him being dirty. It's about steroids. Who do you think you're kidding, trying to hide behind that arguement? You were just referring to them as declining hitters.
You're comparing them to a guy who's facing a Federal inditement! And I think I spelled inditement wrong... oh well. I figured a guy going to law school might have heard something about it, the story has been in the news on occasion.
by grover on Dec 6, 2007 11:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i quoted an article
when you mentioned it was different because bonds used steroids, i agreed that it was different.
"yeah and it's also different because"
"yeah and it's also"
"yeah and"
"yeah"
YEAH
adv. Informal
Yes.
but there are plenty of OTHER hitters who have been associated with both the oakland a's and steroids, and among them are canseco, mcgwire, giambi, giambi, tejada, guillen. and guillen had HGH delivered to the oakland coliseum address a few years ago.
by xbhaskarx on Dec 7, 2007 12:09 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Raises hand...
I think the same of some of some of the other guys.
by IM4Oakgal on Dec 6, 2007 11:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You're not helping
You know what, I don't care. Bash 'em all. Accuse them of lying and cheating or whatever the Hell you want. They're all guilty.
Ellis, Chavez, Crosby, Hatty, Kendall, Swisher, Buck, Huddy, Zito, Mulder, Street, Eck, Stewart, Welch, Rickey, Hendu, Lansford, Brosius, Bordick, Steinbach, Parker, Reggie, Willie Wilson, Walt Weiss.
ACCUSE THEM ALL!
Anything less and you're a hypocrit.
by grover on Dec 6, 2007 11:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
At this point...
I assume more use than don't. So I don't feel the same condemnation as you do so to use the word accuse just isn't appropriate or accurate. However,that's maybe a discussion for another time.
by IM4Oakgal on Dec 6, 2007 11:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Here's a concept
Better 10 guilty men go free than 1 innocent man be punished.
If you're comfortable dragging an innocent man through the mud then you're more callous than me.
by grover on Dec 6, 2007 11:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You don't get it.
I don't care about who uses and who doesn't. I don't judge them for it.
by IM4Oakgal on Dec 6, 2007 11:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
OK
So if I don't judge whores, if I don't care that they sell their bodies or not, then it would be fine for me to call you a whore?
Or do you think the stigma attached to the term, to the accusation if you will, might cause you some grief from other people who have a different set of values then me?
by grover on Dec 6, 2007 11:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It would be fine to suspect that I was a whore.
It would not be fine to say I am absolutely certain that you are a whore. There's a difference.
by IM4Oakgal on Dec 7, 2007 12:00 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sure there's a difference
xbhaskarx is making an accusation. You "raised your hand"... are you going to do the same?
by grover on Dec 7, 2007 12:04 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
what accusation am i making?
by xbhaskarx on Dec 7, 2007 12:05 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Gee, I wonder
Is this one of those deals where you've implied and suggested and insinuated but you haven't outright said the words therefore you're as pure as the driven snow?
That's cheap and I've always held you to a higher standard than that.
by grover on Dec 7, 2007 12:10 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
can you at least quote the comment
by xbhaskarx on Dec 7, 2007 12:12 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sell outs
Why? Because of Bonds. Not because he's a 1 year rental but because of the steroids.
Sell out has nothing to do with 1 year rentals of old baseball players and everything to do with knowingly signing a player or players who use steroids.
You compared Thomas and Piazza and Justice to Barry Bonds using "sell out". As I said the 1st time, none of those players come with the baggage or the legal troubles currently facing Bonds. He's been indicted (looked up the spelling) on perjury and obstruction charges that basically stem from his involvement with steroids.
Bonds is dirty. Sell out is a loaded term. Using it on those other old guys in wrong.
by grover on Dec 7, 2007 12:32 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
well then i apologize
but aside from not using a single term that would indicate he was talking about steroids, why did he say "I want to know why WE're not the ones to find the David Ortizes, to draft the Travis Hafners and the Albert Pujolses."
because everyone is so certain ortiz, hafner and pujols are NOT on steroids, unlike bonds?
wasn't pujols linked to a trainer who helped jason grimsley get HGH?
---
and either way, one thing i will NOT apologize for is
-You compared Thomas and Piazza and Justice to Barry Bonds using "sell out"
or
-Sell out is a loaded term. Using it on those other old guys in wrong.
i think it's clear to everyone but you that i did not imply the a's were sellouts for signing justice, gant, karros, thomas, and piazza. i implied that the a's were NOT SELLOUTS for signing them. that is like the exact opposite.
by xbhaskarx on Dec 7, 2007 12:43 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I never said you were calling the A's sell outs!
I said you were painting Group 1 with the same muck covering Bonds.
by grover on Dec 7, 2007 12:52 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
and unless at least one or two other ANers
say that i accused
-the a's of selling out for signing justice, gant, karros, thomas, and piazza
-justice, gant, karros, thomas, and piazza of being "sellouts" for whatever reason
-justice, gant, karros, thomas, and piazza of using steroids
i'm done arguing with you over your interpretation of what you think i implying.
by xbhaskarx on Dec 7, 2007 12:46 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Just so you're clear
You've accused Justice, Gant etc. of using steroids by linking them to Bonds. That's at least the 3rd time I've said that so maybe it'll sink in this time.
by grover on Dec 7, 2007 12:57 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No he didn't
by mikeA on Dec 7, 2007 1:01 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
thank you for understanding english, mikeA
by xbhaskarx on Dec 7, 2007 1:05 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Who are you, Tom Tancredo?
by mikeA on Dec 7, 2007 1:07 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
hah
hey i understand english is a difficult language, more so than some others perhaps, because it was my second language.
but i'm fairly certain i did not misuse it above.
by xbhaskarx on Dec 7, 2007 1:09 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
and still waiting for a non-grover AN regular
to disagree, but i won't be waiting up...
by xbhaskarx on Dec 7, 2007 1:07 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not that big of a leap mike
Why would the A's be "sell outs" if they signed Bonds?
Because they sign an older player to a 1 year deal? You didn't hear anyone call the A's sell outs after Karros or Thomas or Piazza or Stewart.
OR
Because Bonds used steroids, is facing federal trial and is generally considered synonymous with almost everything wrong in professional sports. You don't hear much about him shooting a gun at strip clubs, I'll give him that.
by grover on Dec 7, 2007 1:55 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The guys he mentioned
are not too controversial....
by mikeA on Dec 7, 2007 12:07 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
are we talking about the first or second list?
first: justice, gant, karros, thomas, and piazza
second: canseco, mcgwire, giambi, giambi, tejada, guillen
bonds belongs on both lists, for different reasons, but i'm genuinely not sure which one we are talking about right now...
by xbhaskarx on Dec 7, 2007 12:14 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You're referring to the home grown batch I hope
And not Karros, Thomas, Gant, Piazza, Justice.
by grover on Dec 7, 2007 12:16 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
yes
except I'm 100% sure that Gant was juicing.
by mikeA on Dec 7, 2007 12:25 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He may have been
But I haven't heard of Ron Gant facing federal charges either. I think the case against bonds might be a little more damning than the one you could make against Gant.
by grover on Dec 7, 2007 12:33 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I suspect some of those players.
That's what I meant. Anyway...it's midnight and I turn into a pumpkin now. So I will read any other remarks tomorrow. I enjoyed the discussion with all of you. Nytol.
by IM4Oakgal on Dec 7, 2007 12:07 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I know I'm a little late
But I wanted to congratulate grover for using "then".
by JediLeroy on Dec 7, 2007 5:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
and also,
"Hell, even the Dustin Pedroias. We seem to top out at Chavez and Swisher"
are you implying dustin pedroia is better than swisher? maybe we should wait another year or two before comparing pedroia to mark ellis, and then we'll see about chavez after that.
by xbhaskarx on Dec 6, 2007 11:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
More happy thoughts
If Bonds joins the A's, there is 100% certainty he will be injured by April and play in fewer games than Rich Harden.
by louismg on Dec 6, 2007 10:32 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Mike Piazza?
Deja vu all over again?
by IM4Oakgal on Dec 6, 2007 10:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Bonds brings wins
I like wins.
Really, it's very easy for me to look past all the crap and just think of him as another Frank Thomas, a really good, really old hitter, coming to town to help us. His past is his past, and as long as it doesn't keep him out of the lineup and does keep us up in the standings, I'm fine.
by walk off bunt on Dec 6, 2007 10:36 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, wins are awesome.
by mikeA on Dec 6, 2007 10:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Wi...wins?
Handshakes, Kool and the Gang, non-round numbers on the lower half of the line score? I vaguely remember those.
by FreeSeatUpgrade on Dec 6, 2007 10:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Wins rule.
In professional sports. Hands down.
by IM4Oakgal on Dec 6, 2007 10:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
But what about the A's soul?!?!
What about their innocence?!?!
Not that I know what those words mean, much less stand for.
If the A's aren't going to try and rebuild, if they're going to try and keep it together for one more year and go for a title, then I'll be damned if I can think of a better bat available than Barry Bonds.
Win the whole fucking thing.
by grover on Dec 6, 2007 10:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Let's go Oakland!!!
Yeah, what grover said.
by IM4Oakgal on Dec 6, 2007 10:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I would like to point out, though
That I don't blame people if they're upset about the A's signing Bonds. People have different values. Quite frankly, I would sell my soul for a World Series.
Others aren't so cold, and that's fine.
by walk off bunt on Dec 6, 2007 11:05 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I agree with you.
It's a perfectly valid viewpoint to feel revulsion for Bonds as an A . I just don't share it.
by IM4Oakgal on Dec 6, 2007 11:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah, people are fans for different reasons,
want different things out of it, etc. So it's sort of pointless to argue about it. Just as long as people don't say absurd Ozian things about how Bonds sucks just because they don't like him...
by mikeA on Dec 6, 2007 11:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
If they express revuslion because of the steroids...or his past affiliations...or his surly personality... I get that and respect it. But if they deny his numbers, his abilites then that I take umbrage with...and do not respect.
by IM4Oakgal on Dec 6, 2007 11:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The most important decision...
If Bonds joins the A's, what number does he get?
25 = McGwire
24 = Rickey
You tell me?
by louismg on Dec 6, 2007 11:19 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
25 would be amusing
by xbhaskarx on Dec 6, 2007 11:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Or his cap size?
by louismg on Dec 6, 2007 11:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
my guess is 25
not that suzuki wouldn't fork 24 over if given the chance, but 25 is already available and that's the number almost all people identify him with.
by flipgatey3 on Dec 7, 2007 6:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm hoping the
ML executive with doubt in his mind is Beane.
by mikeA on Dec 6, 2007 11:23 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Anyway...
I hope this isn't all just another rumor. I will be very disappointed.
by IM4Oakgal on Dec 6, 2007 11:26 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I can see it both ways
First of all, in terms of a baseball decision, signing Bonds is a fantastic decision. He is the best hitter the A's could acquire this offseason, bar none. As the article says, he is the ultimate. This signing would be Moneyball at its finest.
On the other hand, I can understand the negativity towards this signing. I myself am not a fan of him, and think his is the biggest asshole in baseball. How do the Oakland faithful aka, season ticket holders react? These people support and root for the A's no matter who is on the team. The A's are a passionate part of their lives. They are emotionally invested in the team. I assume these die hard A's fans already hate Bonds with a passion. It would be tremendously hard for these people to root for Bonds on the A's.
The potential is there for Bonds to be a "clubhouse cancer", and ruin team chemistry. Also who knows what kind of unwanted results could come with Bonds. What if Bonds blows up at Beane for "hating black people". As ridiculous as this may sound, anything is possible with a guy like this.
My opinion is to seperate myself from emotional decisions, and look at what is best for the team. I was devastated when Hudson and Mulder were traded, but once the shock wears off, I got over it. Winning makes it easier. Its also hard because I do consider myself a passionate A's fan, and my hatred for the giants runs deep.
Ultimately I guess it comes down to results, and I think with Bonds, the A's on paper have a very good shot at making the playoffs.
Count me in.
by pickinmachine on Dec 6, 2007 11:40 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Excellent post.
Props to you, Pickin.
by IM4Oakgal on Dec 6, 2007 11:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Far be it from me
to defend Barry Bonds, but I have to say that your "What if Bonds blows up at Beane for 'hating black people'?" is a singularly bad example.
One of the few things to admire about Barry Bonds personally is that he doesn't play the race card.
by iglew on Dec 7, 2007 12:41 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Which is deeply ironic
given that every poll ever done by anybody indicates that people's opinions toward him are massively influenced by race...
If ever anyone could point to race being a factor in his treatment, it's a guy who's had like 3 national Gallup polls demonstrate it explicitly.
by PaulThomas on Dec 7, 2007 1:00 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
disagree
Have you seen any episodes of the reality show Bonds on Bonds?
Seriously you've never read anything about Bonds and race issues?
Regardless, the point I was trying to make was that Bonds is the type of player that could create some unwanted distraction within the organization. Maybe I shouldnt have mentioned race as it is a touchy subject.
by pickinmachine on Dec 7, 2007 1:12 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well, I haven't read everything about Bonds
but if race is one of his things, I missed it. Seems like he was just a colorblind jerk all the time -- unlike, say, Milton Bradley, who seems to bring it up a lot.
So if Bonds plays the race card and I missed it, I stand corrected.
by iglew on Dec 7, 2007 3:27 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't call it the "race card"...
..But Bonds has openly talked about race before though. He has said things about Boston being a racist city for example. (And I'm from Boston, and attest that there are a lot of racist morons there).
by Travis Buck Nuckin on Dec 7, 2007 4:05 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
he's brought up race more than once
The most memorable instance being when he pronounced Boston a racist city.
by Cutthemullet on Dec 7, 2007 9:42 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
well yeah but that's just an undeniable fact
by xbhaskarx on Dec 7, 2007 6:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
and how do we know that?
Because it's undeniable.
by monkeyball on Dec 7, 2007 8:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I have mixed feelings about all this
After all, Bonds might go to jail!
It would be one thing if the media frenzy following Bonds was strictly a matter of the controversy surrounding his past steroid use, but his recent indictment takes things to a new level.
Before this latest indictment, I would have been all for bringing Bonds to the A's. After all, he's one of the greatest hitters in the history of the game. But, with this new, legally fraught chapter in the Bonds saga just about to begin, I'd really just assume the A's not have anything to do with it.
by kvn on Dec 7, 2007 12:03 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
That's why they would need an opt out clause.
by IM4Oakgal on Dec 7, 2007 12:04 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
clause or not
I don't like the whole jail or Oakland dynamic here. It's too messy for me. Maybe you can reconcile all this, but the gravity of Bonds' latest legal status makes it impossible for me to have any enthusiasm if Beane does sign him.
Can you imagine signing Bond, with the opt out clause, and then waiting to find out if he's going to jail. It's not like waiting to see if an injury heals. The stakes are way more intense.
by kvn on Dec 7, 2007 12:17 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
legal experts don't think he'll go to trial
until after the baseball season, and maybe not until 2009, and he can't go to jail until after he goes to trial.
by xbhaskarx on Dec 7, 2007 12:22 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
trials are disruptive, too
But, thanks for shedding light on the 2009 thing. It DOES change things a little to know he's not in any (unless he suddenly excepts a plea deal, I presume) risk of serving time next season.
But, a trial is even harder to avoid than jail time, since it's unavoidable. So, won't he be missing a stretch of time to stand trial during the 2008 season?
Then again, life is sloppy. If we sign him, we'll have to learn to live with uncertainty.
by kvn on Dec 7, 2007 12:51 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
excepts = accepts in my world
...not that I care to correct every error, that one just bugs me.
by kvn on Dec 7, 2007 12:54 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The experts think
that the trial won't even START until after next season.
People forget sometimes how glacially slow the legal system is. Believe me, I work in a law firm, and unless there's a special reason for it to be expedited, cases frequently take 2 years to get to trial-- and these are semi-routine cases where the attorneys aren't publicly going at it hammer and tongs over every last motion and objection.
Add in the (often) incredibly deferential attitude towards athletes on trial (see: Steven Jackson, last year) and I'd be genuinely stunned if Bonds had to make more than a token few court appearances between now and next November.
by PaulThomas on Dec 7, 2007 1:07 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
There is nothing stopping the two sides
from making a deal that could impact his playing time for the A's.
From a more practical side; the thing that has made Bonds such a stand out is his eye & hand coordination first, his muscles second.
Near perfect eyesight is a benefit of HGH.
I don't know if the eyes revert to "normal" when you stop being a user or if you go to your grave with the eyesight of an eagle. I do know the eyes of men his age degrade instead of improve.
I wouldn't be surprised if Bonds starts looking really silly at the plate this year.
by A s Eh on Dec 7, 2007 10:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
way to use facts
yes, the two sides could make a deal that could impact his playing time for the a's...
the two sides, and in this case wouldn't one side NOT want to do that?
yes, eyesight improves with certain PEDs...
didn't bonds have pretty damn good eyesight before he started using PEDs? is there any evidence that he was using PEDs over the last 2-3 years? or that if he was, he wouldn't continue to do so now?
yes, eyesight degrades for 40+ year old men like bonds...
he led the NL in OPS in 2007, but one year later his eyesight will degrade to the point where he looks "really silly at the plate"?
jesus, where do you come up with this stuff...
by xbhaskarx on Dec 8, 2007 8:35 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
some wagers are better than others
Bonds is a great wager.
by rebus on Dec 8, 2007 11:05 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Only if you like low risk, high reward wagers*...
but where's the sense of excitement in that?
*low risk assessment does not include the possibility of signing Bonds including selling our collective souls to the devil ...
by devo on Dec 8, 2007 11:29 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not much difference:
223ab 283 486 587 8 dbl 20 hr 88 bb Bonds
271ab 273 424 546 15 dbl 19 hr 72 bb Cust
'07 vs lefties Bonds has a little edge:
117ab 265 470 521 6 dbl 8 hr 44 bb Bonds
124ab 218 374 411 3 dbl 7 hr 33 bb Cust
- Bonds and Cust are basically even until salaries, at that point, Cust looks a lot better!
- Both Bonds and Cust in a lineup is impressive until you subtract the defense of the one in the field.
- An incentives based contract that mirrors Frank Thomas' is a safe contract considering Bonds negatives.
by A s Eh on Dec 8, 2007 3:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ummm ...
that's a HUGE difference
v Righties, Bonds has 60 points of OBP and 40 points of SLG, for 100 points of OPS
v Lefties, Bonds has 100 points of OBP and 110 points of Slg, for 210 points of OPS -- for comparison's sake, that's roughly the difference between Bobby Crosby and Nick Swisher.
Both Bonds and Cust in the lineup is still impressive after you subtract defense. Adding Bonds, while hurting the defense will improve the team by about 2 wins.
by devo on Dec 8, 2007 3:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
While Bonds represents the "feared hitter"
It is simply bases on balls that push Barry's 2007 averages beyond Cust's. The A's must decide who bats first knowing Barry will clog the bases.
With Barry behind Cust those XBHs should rise, and the Bondsesque walks.
The A's will need gazelles cheating towards LF at CF, SS, & 3B if Barry stands out there.
I saw your wins figures and agree. I do believe that 2 wins is conservative, the maximum being much greater and Esp. so if Beane improves the A's elsewhere and Bonds gets 450-500 abs.
I just don't like him, his associates, the media and Senate all over the A's.
Give him Frank's deal and move on to new business.
PS
The funny thing here is with Barry behind Cust, Cust's stats will be the better 'twixt the two!
by A s Eh on Dec 8, 2007 10:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Wait, what?
in comparisions to Mr. Cust. The 2007 stats don't bear that out. The better power numbers belong to Cust because of the better showing in extra base hits.
Bonds had a 44.7% XBH percentage last season compared with Cust's 44.6%
It is simply bases on balls that push Barry's 2007 averages beyond Cust's.
Bonds had a better slugging percentage than Cust (completely independent of walks) and a better isolated slugging percentage (also completely independent of walks) than Cust.
by Nate on Dec 8, 2007 11:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Cust had more doubles & HRs
Nice data though.
by A s Eh on Dec 9, 2007 10:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I find this highly unlikely
First, you are mistaken about eyesight; GH does not magically confer near perfect eyesight. GH has been shown to encourage neuronal regeneration, but there are a large number of etiologies that can cause a decrease in visual acuity that are probably not significantly affected by GH supplementation.
Secondly, although there is some evidence for target organ tolerance to GH, there is no evidence of catastrophic failure of any organ system following withdrawal of growth hormone.
by MrIncognito on Dec 8, 2007 12:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
What the suppliers claim:
Everyone is different, but generally after a complete six month therapy program you can expect significant results in your apperance, performance and well beign:
1st Month:
Increase in mental sharpness, enthusiasm for life and an elimination of a mild to moderate depression. More energy, better results from exercise and weight control efforts. Better sleep.
2nd Month:
Improved muscle tone, enhanced sexual function, improvement in nail growth, improvement in skin tone, better digestion, increased strength and weight loss. Improved hair growth-thickening of hair with a shiny and healthy appearance.
3rd Month:
Mental processes improve, including desire to do and complete projects, increased muscle size, especially if the individual works out, hair growth, reduction in post menstrual symptoms in women, increased sexual desire, greater body flexibility.
4th Month:
Same as 3rd Month: Generally most improvements are heightened and more consistent.
5th Month:
Impressive weight loss, reduction of inches, since fat is reduced and muscle tissue is increased, toned improvement to skin texture, reduced appearance of wrinkles, Vast improvements of hair growth.
6th Month:
This is a rather significant stage since cellulite greatly diminishes, body is more contoured,
eyesight is greatly improved,
stronger resistance to colds, flu, and other illnesses, some pain and soreness will disappear, old wounds have healed or are healing, excellent exercise tolerance, grayed hair begins to return to natural color, medical test show a reduction in cholesterol (LDL) and triglycerides, blood pressure normalizes, heart rate improves, some conditions due to disease vanish or are diminished and immune system improves.
Do you recommend replacing both HGH and Testosterone at the same time?
Hormones may be replaced separately or in any combination. Better results are obtained from taking a combination of hormones. We like to say there is a 1+1=3 relationship. We understand the cost limitation on growth hormone. The benefits far outweigh the cost.
Castastrophic failure probably never happens.
A regression to "normal sight" for our 44 year old might be more likely, and that is contrary to our interest in Mr. Bonds.
by A s Eh on Dec 9, 2007 11:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Kobe Bryant...
flew directly from court appearances in Eagle, CO to games. One time he arrived after the start of the game, suited up, and put up like 30+ points.
The legal stuff means nothing to me. I don't think it will affect Bonds' performance; if he was able to block out the media circuses of the past without asking for a restraining order against Pedro Gomez, I think he'll be fine. For Kobe, the game was his sanctuary from his off-the-court problems; I suspect it will be a similar situation for a similarly narcissistic, amazingly talented athlete.
It also means nothing to me as far as having any impact on my opinion of the man--I'm no legalist, and, honestly, I don't have much respect for those who let the arbitrary arm of the government guide(or interfere with) their ethical judgments. The law is/was derived from commonly held ethical principles, not the other way around....
by Cutthemullet on Dec 7, 2007 9:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
we can admire his HRs while we wait...
by mikeA on Dec 7, 2007 12:26 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Opt out players have 0 OPS+
...couldn't resist
by A s Eh on Dec 7, 2007 9:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sad sad sad
Sounds like this is going to happen, so I'm bracing myself to accept it. I'm glad Chavvy will be happy, and if we win more games I guess that's a silver lining, too. I still think it's a bad thing.
I don't dislike Bonds as much as many here do. Sure, he's a jerk and he did illegal drugs, but I realize that plenty of other players did that too but just aren't as well-known. But it matters that Bonds is well-known.
We all have our reasons, and this is mine. I truly love the city of Oakland -- it's why I became an A's fan -- and I hate that Oakland has such an undeserved bad reputation. It pains me every time I see someone dismiss Oakland as the grubby and ugly runner-up in San Francisco's shadow. I hate that for so many people who don't know the city, when they think of Oakland all that comes to mind is crime, corruption, and violence.
One of the few things that Oakland had going for it, in terms of reputation, was the Oakland A's. People who knew a little about baseball would think of the scrappy team of cheerful youngsters beating the odds, and that was good for Oakland. But the A's also had some of the better known 'roiders -- McGwire, Canseco, Giambi. That's a bad rap that's been tough to beat.
The day we sign Barry Bonds, all of that comes back, and instantly everyone in the country will be talking about how the A's are the team that loves steroid users, and everyone who already has a bad opinion of Oakland will think, "Yeah, that figures; that's the city with rapists and race riots and motorcycle gangs and political corruption, so what do you expect?"
That's why I will mourn when the A's sign Barry Bonds. Not because I hate Bonds, but because I love Oakland. I don't want to see Oakland's name dragged through the mud again. I know this is a baseball site and we're all supposed to care about baseball more than anything else, but truth to be told, I love Oakland more than I love the Oakland A's. I don't care how many wins it's be worth to the team, it's not worth it.
by iglew on Dec 7, 2007 12:32 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I truly don't mean to offend here
but why do you like Oakland so much?
I mean, famous people have been making fun of Oakland since at least the 1920s or so (Gertrude Stein)...
by PaulThomas on Dec 7, 2007 12:57 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
ha
you weren't around for the 200 times someone mentioned Gertrude Stein and then it was pointed out that she wasn't dissing Oakland...
And not to answer for him, but: Oakland is a great city.
by mikeA on Dec 7, 2007 1:00 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Why is Oakland a great city?
Because it's a great city.
...ok.
What is this, Adventures in Tautologies?
by PaulThomas on Dec 7, 2007 1:01 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
We debated tautologies before, remember?
Point taken, but if we're being semantic: the answer "because it's a great city" adds content and is not a tautology. There are many possible reasons that people like or dislike cities that have nothing to do with their quality.
by mikeA on Dec 7, 2007 1:05 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not just cities.
Teams, baseball players, other people. Love, like fandom, is not something that can be rationally explained.
by oblique on Dec 7, 2007 1:07 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Dictionary.com:
"Needless repetition of an idea, esp. in words other than those of the immediate context, without imparting additional force or clearness, as in 'widow woman.'"
Most people like great cities. That's why they're called great. It has no explanatory value. It just (ahem) begs the question: why is the city great? Which is virtually the same question as "why do you like the city"?
by PaulThomas on Dec 7, 2007 1:14 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
ah
but you question wasn't "why is Oakland great" (mdl never said it was great) but rather "why do you like it so much?" to which "because it is great" is a perfectly good answer. For instance: why do I like Dan Haren? Because he's a great pitcher.
by mikeA on Dec 7, 2007 1:18 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Look
If I asked you "Why do you like Dan Haren," and you responded "Because he's a great pitcher," and then declined to elaborate, I would assume one of the following is true:
- You don't really know what you're talking about, or
- You're being truculent.
If it was an ESPN commentator talking, I'd assume #1. On this site, I'm going with #2.
Now, in the case of the OP, he DID elaborate, so it's okay.
by PaulThomas on Dec 7, 2007 8:12 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
don't you want back the truculent?
by monkeyball on Dec 7, 2007 9:35 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
also
that's a terrible definition.
by mikeA on Dec 7, 2007 1:20 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Why is it a terrible definition?
by oblique on Dec 7, 2007 1:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
because it's terrible
by xbhaskarx on Dec 7, 2007 1:46 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
QOTM
by monkeyball on Dec 7, 2007 9:35 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It's ok as a definition insofar as people
actually use the term that way, but people really shouldn't because it's just confusing. That definition is more or less the definition of "redundancy" which is a perfectly fine word to use. "Tautology" did not mean "redundancy" for most of it's existence.
"Bonds will either help or not help the A's" is a tautology.
"Bonds will help the A's because he will help them win ballgames" is redundant (and question-begging), but it is not a tautology. The key feature of tautologies is that they are always true regardless of the truth of their consituents.
by mikeA on Dec 7, 2007 1:56 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
sure, but i prefer my answer
by xbhaskarx on Dec 7, 2007 2:09 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Dude, get the f off his back.
by oblique on Dec 7, 2007 8:36 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I love Oakland ...
- because no matter how long I've stayed away, it has always felt like home.
- because who I am is overwhelmingly connected to having grown up there.
- because there are endless amounts of fun things to do ... and drinks generally don't cost ten dollars (I'm looking at you, San Francisco, New York and the nicer parts of LA).
- because people don't move there because they're on some silly bohemian chic kick and then pay $1400/mo for a room in a 5-bedroom apartment.
- because, whether they've lived there their entire lives or are recent transplants, people take real pride in being from Oakland.
- because it was the original home to the Hell's Angels and the Black Panthers.
- because it still has quality jobs for real people and people like Nancy Nadel fighting to keep it that way.
- because it is a city that celebrates its history and doesn't just turn it into some crappy tourist neighborhood.
- because it is the most diverse city in America.
I could go on and on ... but, suffice it to say, I love Oakland because it's a great city.
by devo on Dec 7, 2007 10:13 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
and +1 more to #4.
I didn't grow up here, but I lived here from age 20 to age 37 (with a one-year interlude in Alameda) and it's overwhelmingly connected to my formation as an adult. Same idea.
For many reasons, Seattle is the right place for me to live, and I made a deliberate decision to move away from Oakland, but in spite of that I always think of Oakland as my home town.
Oakland has a very cool history. Part of my interest is idiosyncratic. For instance, I love that Darius Milhaud and Luciano Berio taught at Mills. That will be completely meaningless to all but five or six members of AN, I think.
by iglew on Dec 7, 2007 11:44 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Two questions
Here you ask me why I love Oakland. Later on you ask why it's a great city, which is quite different.
Way too late for me to give a thorough answer, but as for the love, I don't know, just because I made my home here and found it beautiful. One doesn't need to justify love. One just loves.
As for a great city, I'm not sure I'd even make that claim. I would, however, insist that it's not nearly as bad as it's so often made out to be. So much of the anti-Oakland stuff is a bad rap.
I like that Oakland has such a rich history, too, which so many of the cities around here don't. San Francisco is older, but by 1880 or so they were equals and remained so until the bridge.
I see you've already been corrected about Gertrude Stein. Oakland has been far more artistically fecund than it's generally given credit for, particularly with regard to literature and music. In classical music, it far outstrips San Francisco, though you'd never know it from how San Franciscans act now.
I also really like how Oakland has kept so much of its great architecture from the art deco era, which is rare to find anywhere else. Nothing in San Francisco or Seattle compares to Oakland's Paramount theater, in my opinion, but maybe that's just my bias again.
by iglew on Dec 7, 2007 3:52 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Art deco ...
there's quite a bit of art deco architecture left in midtown Sacramento, if you're a fan of the stuff ...
by devo on Dec 7, 2007 9:54 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Good to know, thanks
by iglew on Dec 7, 2007 11:45 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah...
because famous people's opinions should always be taken at face value. By the logic of this post, you contradict yourself later when you deride the ignorance of ESPN commentators.
by Cutthemullet on Dec 7, 2007 9:32 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The thing about Stein was a joke, obviously
by PaulThomas on Dec 7, 2007 10:09 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
First off...
I have very mixed feelings about this. If we won it all this year and Bonds was a big part of it, it just wouldn't taste as sweet as I'd like. But I understand that our chances of winning it all become much, much better with him in the lineup.
Secondly though (already getting over my qualms and thinking about how he could help us win), I was curious about what you all would think about Bonds going to the opposite field. I know that nothing really needs to change; if puts up the same kind of numbers he did even just last year, that would be more than great. But, I've always wondered, he is such a skilled hitter, it doesn't seem like it would be too hard for him to just poke everything the other way. And with nobody on the left side of the infield because of the full shift, he could probably bat around .800, which would more than make up for the loss in power. I've seen him do a hard bunt into left field before and wondered: why not do that everytime? He'd have 3000 hits in no time.
It seems to me what would eventually happen is opposing teams would simply stop putting on the full shift, and then he could start pulling the ball again with fewer fielders on the right side, again raising his BA/OBP.
So why not?
Any thoughts?
by WhiteElephants on Dec 7, 2007 1:15 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Y did I check AN b4 going to bed, YYY...
now I won't be able to sleep. I'm so excited about the prospect of seeing Bonds in an A's jersey in the middle of our lineup. Funny thing is I decided not to re-up my season tix next yr because of too many commitments, but now I may have to rethink that...
WOW! this is un-bleeping-believable.
by sf drift king on Dec 7, 2007 1:30 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Unidentified Sources
Ahh, so the San Francisco Chronicle is going for a REAL big payday today huh? Today is Bonds' first court appearance - big media frenzy - so the headline on the paper reads 'A's to sign Bonds' - story ends up reading that it's only a rumor. It's all about selling newspapers. Plain and simple.
Who and what Barry Bonds has become goes against everything that the Oakland A's are, and everything that Oakland A's fans are.
Barry Bonds will never play for the A's.
by NewPosterMojo on Dec 7, 2007 1:35 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
it's susan slusser
i don't think she would want to hurt her credibility with the organization, so obviously the a's are at least interested in signing bonds.
by xbhaskarx on Dec 7, 2007 1:54 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Doesn't sound too good for Slusser...
An unnamed executive said Thursday that here was "no doubt" in his mind Bonds would land in Oakland. "I'm not going to justify something that somebody wants to make up because they talked to somebody who thinks they know what we're doing," Beane said. "It's a complete waste of my time."
by NewPosterMojo on Dec 9, 2007 12:19 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You don't like Bonds, fine.
I don't particularly like Bonds either.
But, are you saying that the people who want Bonds on the team are not "real" fans? Why? Because you say so?
by rfloh on Dec 7, 2007 4:18 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This is ridiculous
The A's have had plenty of high-profile steroid users. They've had plenty of moody, slugging assholes, too. (See: Kingman, Dave.)
by PaulThomas on Dec 7, 2007 8:16 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think you're deluded...
about what the Oakland A's are. Who and what Barry Bonds has become, which is the greatest player ever, is actually exactly in line with what the A's front office's primary concern is--performance on the field.
by Cutthemullet on Dec 7, 2007 9:36 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Some might find this interesting.
There have been 198 posts in this diary up to this point by 21 different usernames. Twenty-one.
by NewPosterMojo on Dec 7, 2007 2:11 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
What's your point?
That certain posters here are regular posters?
by rfloh on Dec 7, 2007 4:20 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm pretty sure he just called me "fat."
by oblique on Dec 7, 2007 8:38 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
one of us *must* be oaktoon
by monkeyball on Dec 7, 2007 9:37 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
...?
High post to user ratio, indicating hot-button topic? Is that what you're implying? Because I don't know of any significance of the number 21 in relation to Bonds otherwise...number of home runs he'll have by the ASB?
by Cutthemullet on Dec 7, 2007 9:38 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Why is this even news?
The headline of the Slusser article is completely misleading since there is absolutely nothing in the article to support it. There's one GM who thinks Bonds will sign with the A's. Wow, that's shocking. There's also one GM that gave Kaz Matsui $16.5MM and yet another who thought GMJ was worth $50MM+. Ya, great predictors of future performance of others these GM's.
THERE IS NO NEWS HERE - JUST A PUFF PIECE WITH A BIG HEADLINE
by jubjub on Dec 7, 2007 5:54 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Kaz Matsui
Probably the most reasonable contract until Bonds signs.
by Cutthemullet on Dec 7, 2007 9:40 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
different definition of reasonable
a 32-year-old 2nd basemen with a .637 OPS away from Coors Field is worth $16.5MM?????? The Astros probably overpaid by about 2 years and $15MM.
by jubjub on Dec 7, 2007 12:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
fair point...fair point
Also, I had him in fantasy, and I didn't recall catching onto that trend during the season, either. Probably because he stole bases, and that's golden in fantasy.
by Cutthemullet on Dec 9, 2007 2:56 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

by The Dogfather on Dec 7, 2007 7:37 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
NO BILLY!!!! NO!!!!!
by BleedGreen on Dec 7, 2007 8:07 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
FIRE MACHA NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sorry, got caught up in the screaming and I never got to say it when he was here....
by 5Aces on Dec 7, 2007 9:17 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yuppies are opposed.

by The Dogfather on Dec 7, 2007 8:43 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I <3 Bonds
I'm a fan of the A's. I'm a fan of Bonds. I'm a fan of winning. I'm a fan of Beane. I'm a fan of smart, performance-vs-salary-optimizing acquisitions.
by monkeyball on Dec 7, 2007 9:40 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Christ, what an asshole.
by Poppy on Dec 7, 2007 9:51 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
heh heh heh
by monkeyball on Dec 7, 2007 10:01 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The clergy is aghast.

by The Dogfather on Dec 7, 2007 9:45 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Ban me for life ...
DO NOT put that piece of shit in an A's uniform.
I wish I had not sent in my money for season tickets yesterday.
by ConcordFanSince1968 on Dec 7, 2007 9:50 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Even skunks are fleeing the stench.

by The Dogfather on Dec 7, 2007 10:03 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

by 

