Can I Wear This? (Poll)
by Bleeding the Green and Gold on Dec 25, 2007 1:53 PM PST
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PrintIt's Christmas Day, so happy holidays everyone! I got an A's gift today that I am not sure what to do with.
Last year I was a huge Jack Cust fan. I loved his story of perseverance and hard work. I also loved his approach at the plate. And I knew he was going to be an A for more than one year, so I didn't prevent myself from becoming "attached," so to speak.
Around Thanksgiving I asked my parents for a Jack Cust replica jersey and anxiously awaited X-mas day to receive it. However, then came the Mitchell Report. Obviously it's not hard evidence, but it puts a damper on my man-love for Cust.
So the jersey came today, and I was excited, but saddened at the same time. So I'd like to get other A's fans' opinions. Can I wear the jersey loud and proud in public (I'm in Seattle territory). Or am I looking like I'm standing up for steroid use? Is Cust's name completely tarnished in the court of public opinion? Hope you all had a wonderful holiday and that everyone received nice and wholesome gifts (like an Ellis jersey :). Go A's!
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I voted yes.
I don't even see it as an innocent until proven guilty thing... you liked him before you knew his name was attached to the list. Just because it showed up doesn't mean you should stop being a fan of his story or his approach at the plate. Maybe it's just because I'm an A's fan too... but I don't see wearing a Cust jersey as supporting steroids at all. :)
I voted "yes," too, for about the same reasons.
And I'm not even a Cust fan... but I do have an Ellis jersey, so I'm just trying in advance to cover for myself when Ellis tests positive for something... ;)
I think that he tested positive
for being from south dakota.
by Athletics fan and runner on Dec 26, 2007 10:14 AM PST up reply actions
And he tested awesome for positiveness!
Yes, wear the jersey.
I had a chance to meet Jack in person at the Swisher's Wishes fundraiser.He also spent itme iwth the fans at the Coliseum Field Irish Pub after a game. He was so nice and so charming. HIs allegations are hearsay. And,even if he did it ,it was several years ago. I'm sure he is mortified about the report.
by Imaseasonticketholder on Dec 25, 2007 1:53 PM PST reply actions
Oh, andi if you don't want to wear it
send me the jersey and the receipt and I'll pay you for it.
by Imaseasonticketholder on Dec 25, 2007 1:55 PM PST reply actions
Wear the jersey
Wear the jersey with AN pride. And if anybody challenges you about the 'roids reply in the following fashion, "YEAH!!!! I have a license to carry these guys!!!!" and then flex your biceps while snearing out at the world.
If that does not work then send the jersey to me. I would love to have a Cust jersey.
By the way, I think that I am going to use a photoshop program to modify the logo for the Jack Cust baseball school to have an A's loge on it. I will then make a home made tee-shirt.
by Athletics fan and runner on Dec 25, 2007 5:25 PM PST reply actions
Dude
don't even be trying to get the jersey. I called it first.
by Imaseasonticketholder on Dec 25, 2007 6:47 PM PST reply actions
We should have some sort of contest for it.
like, you know, who posted second for it wins.
by Athletics fan and runner on Dec 25, 2007 7:15 PM PST up reply actions
Dude
I would go all Kendall on you , if you tried to get that jersey from me if I was fortunate enough to get it.
by Imaseasonticketholder on Dec 25, 2007 11:06 PM PST up reply actions
I have a kendall jersey
That might confuse you if you were to go all kendall on me.
by Athletics fan and runner on Dec 26, 2007 5:36 AM PST up reply actions
who cares, wear the jersey
I'm pretty certain Jack Cust has done steroids among other things. He isn't a "bad" person, just a long-term contract risk.
Until MLB makes better rules the players can do as much steroids as they want.
by SwisherSweet on Dec 25, 2007 8:18 PM PST reply actions
Jack Cust did make a statement
Not sure if I saw it on AN yet, but Jack Cust did make a statement about the steroid allegations. It is available on his father's baseball academy site:
http://jackcustbaseball.com/Home.asp...
Personally, I wouldn't really mind if it were true, so long as he put it behind him and decided it was wrong. I can't imagine what it must be like being a career minor leaguer (as he seemed to be before last season) and the pressures one would feel to make good for their family and kids and whatnot. Not saying I would make the same decisions, but in the lax moral environment of the time it could have been different.
In any event, he didn't make it to the majors to stay until the current testing regime was in place for a few seasons. These allegations shouldn't tarnish his story because the happy ending came clean.
Merry Christmas everyone.
by hesanindierocker on Dec 25, 2007 8:54 PM PST reply actions
Wear it
A few points if I may.
- Your parents love you very much, how can I tell? because you didn't get darn gift card for Christmas, no you got something that they put some thought into. I don't know about you but my parents aren't exactly rolling in the Benjamin's. Your parents probably put in 2 full 8-hour work days just to be able to give you something that you would enjoy this christmas. The shame of throwing something like that away, of letting such a sacrifice from loved ones go to waste, for me personally would be far greater shame than baseless hearsay allegations of what someone did or did not do years ago and in the minor leagues.
- I too was saddened when I heard about Cust, but I think too many of us (yes, I'm including myself here) are too trigger happy when it comes to passing judgement. We forget that all of us make mistakes (and some really really sh**tty ones too) and we also forget that none of us have been in a situation such as say, Jack Cust. Lets say what was said about Cust was true, that at one point in the minors the guy was taking steroids. Now lets consider the following.
You are due to interview for a new job position at your company. You only completed Junior College, and know over half of the candidates are in the same boat as you, but they are going to lie, they are going to say they graduated from CAL. You know that the chances of anyone calling their bluff is slim to none. What do you do? Do you pretend you went to graduate school at Stanford? Many people would not think twice about lying, because it would bring more money in, and they could take better care of their families, and a little white lie never hurt anyone right?
My point is that most of us faced with the opportunity to make more money, to provide for our families, most of us would do what we could to compete, to get that promotion, to play in the big leagues. baseball players make these mistakes too, theirs just appears to be different but its not. If Jack Cust did what the report says he did, then he obviously made a mistake in his life, which we all have, but we can not let that overshadow all of his other accomplishments. We would not consider it fair for people to judge us on one mistake we've made and forget all of our other accomplishments and thus we shouldn't do the same to others.
- No one outside the A's is paying much attention to Cust. Everyone's got their head so far up the A** of Clemens and Pettite that Id be surprised if anyone thats not a diehard baseball fan even knows Cust is in there. So wear it, and dont see it as shameful thing but rather see it as you standing up for your boy, for all those good memories he gave you last year. Itll be your own little way of paying him back. :-)
(off my soap)
by Amnesiac727 on Dec 26, 2007 12:34 AM PST reply actions
Yeah
go ahead and wear it. At least he is still on the A's. My Haren All-Star Jersey is now worthless. Never fails, whenever I get an A's all-star jersey they get traded, or leave. Zito, Hernendez, Mulder. I'm never buying one again.
by smartkidfromcarmel on Dec 26, 2007 10:09 AM PST reply actions
Disturbing Trend.
Its a problem every A's fan has. I got a Haren shirt in May. Now its a rag in my garage.
Hell yes you can wear it...
The only way to get around any issue is to get a A's jersey like the one my wife bought me this Christmas...NO NUMBER on the back. That way no issues when your favorite player gets traded, signs as a free agent with another team, or shows up in the Mitchell Report.
Our wives must shop at the same place, I also got
a Green A's jersey with no number on the back.
by theblackpearl on Dec 26, 2007 2:30 PM PST up reply actions
I say no.
Not because he might have done roids, but because, if the story is true (and there's no reason to think it isn't), then he wasn't just doing roids, he was promoting them (and his dealer) to other players.
To me, that makes the difference.
That said, it's not like anyone's going to say anything if you do wear it. I just wouldn't myself.
you forgot the part
you forgot the part where he sends the jersey to me.
by Athletics fan and runner on Dec 27, 2007 10:45 AM PST up reply actions
No reason to think it isn't
except that Larry Bigbie is a cheating, desperate weasel and the putative conversation happened 4 years ago? Oh, and something about uncorroborated hearsay.
If you were to make a list of all the characteristics which make testimony unreliable, I'm pretty sure the Jack Cust section of the report would hit every item on the list.
There were already rumors about Cust using before the report. There is now one additional rumor. Whoop-de-freaking-do. It's ridiculous to give the crap in the report any more respect than that.
And you're forgetting...
In fact, if he's part of a federal investigation, he's even more likely to tell the truth than Cust, because he's under oath and can get in big trouble for lying.
So yeah, I'll take his word for it. Considering he not only gets no reward for lying, but could end up in prison for doing so.
My emails to my friends: Not a grand jury
The movie "Troy": Not a grand jury
The Mitchell investigation: Not a grand jury
Guess what telling lies in each of those situations could cost you?
If you said "Nothing except your credibility," you're a winner. Unfortunately, your answer was "Going to prison," which is comically wrong.
Apart from which, it's f***ing hearsay. There's literally no way to prove that Bigbie was lying.
Do the most basic bit of Googling, please.
According to the report, "Bigbie has been cooperating with federal authorities in connection with their investigations into the illegal distribution of performance-enhancing substances."
(link)
How far down does the foot go before you gag?
Dude
The Mitchell report still isn't a grand jury.
I can tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but to the Feds, then walk outside and lie my utter ass off about what I just said, and nothing whatsoever will happen to me.
Seriously now.
Bigbie talked to the feds. Info from the federal investigation was then repeated by Mitchell.
In cases where people DID talk to Mitchell (EG: Radomski), they did so with federal agents present, giving information that was subject to a charge of obstructing justice if they lied.
Again WHY WOULD BIGBIE LIE ABOUT CUST when he's involved in a federal investigation that could see him sent to prison for doing so?
How far will you go to try to find a loophole for Cust here?
Where are you getting this bizarre idea
that Bigbie can be sent to prison?
It's a conversation. It's his word against Cust's. Not to mention the fact that to stick a perjury charge, you have to prove that the guy lied KNOWINGLY. How on earth could you show that? Bigbie can always claim he misremembered or misheard. Those being, of course, two of the primary reasons why "evidence" like this is garbage to begin with!
I can't even conceive of a way in which one could go about proving that. Short of opening Bigbie's skull on a hinge and seeing a little sign saying "I lied about Cust" stuck to his brain, it is literally impossible to prove that he perjured himself.
Paul, it sounds like you haven't
done your homework on this.
Larry Bigbie is absolutely in danger of going to prison. It's not a bizarre idea at all. It's right there in the news stories.
Radomski named Bigbie as one of his leading clients and the federal agents chose him as the next target in their sting operation. They had Radomski send him a large package of PEDs, then they busted him and threatened to prosecute him on charges of distribution of a Schedule III substance under Title 21. That carries much heavier penalties than just possession.
It was under that threat that Bigbie agreed to cooperate. Now, I don't know what sort of oath he was under when testifying, but if the DEA has the goods on you, and they're prepared to make an example of you if you don't cooperate, I think you'd better be damn careful what you say when you do cooperate.
You can make plenty of arguments about Bigbie's motives and veracity. I won't challenge you on those. But it sure sounds like you're implying Bigbie is under no pressure and there's no investigation against him, and that's just flat out false.
What he said.
If Bigbie is under investigation
for SELLING STEROIDS, which I assume he is, then he's in danger of going to prison REGARDLESS. He's still not in danger of a perjury charge. Even if he was giving testimony under some kind of oath.
If anything, that makes me MORE convinced that his motives are impure. If what he's trying to do is show some kind of cooperation to score a plea bargain, then he might as well throw as many names around as possible and pray that one of them ends up being correct. Given, of course, that there's no way to prove that he was lying when he tossed them out there. Which there isn't, in at least two cases (Cust and Brian Roberts) and possibly more-- I haven't read the entire report.
It's like the scene in Harry Potter IV where Karkaroff is being interrogated by the Wizengamot...
OK
Like I said, I'm not arguing with you about Bigbie's veracity or motives.
I was only challenging your claim that Bigbie is not under investigation and he's not at risk of being sent to prison.
Wow, that denial
That's what puts me over the top.
I'd like to believe Cust, but honestly, I find the accumulation of hearsay more credible than the vehement and categoric denial on his site.
I hope I'm wrong, but I think he's done steroids. If he'd said, "Yeah, I messed with that stuff but I'm done with it," or even if he just said nothing, I'd be OK with that. But his denial is so over the top that if he ever did any PEDs at all he's being dishonest about it (even if he has carefully chosen his words so that they aren't literally untrue). Maybe Larry Bigbie and all of Jeff's minor league friends are liars, but I rather doubt that.
I'm not going to call Cust a liar, because I really don't know, but if it were my shirt, I'd put it on the shelf. I'm really sad about it, too, because Cust was one of my favorite players.
This is comical
Seriously. You guys had no inkling-- none-- that a guy who spent 10 years in the minors during a period of record PED use might be on the juice? But then the Mitchell report came out, and thanks to one unsubstantiated allegation by a known cheat and liar, Cust suddenly becomes the Antichrist?
His DENIAL makes you think he's guilty? What is this, the Island of Knights and Knaves?
"Accumulated hearsay?" Let me make y'all aware of something, since you seem not to be taking it into account. Hearsay accumulates. One guy tells another guy something; he tells someone else. Pretty soon you've got 5, 10 people all informed by the exact same original info, rumor, whatever it is.
Have you decided to root against Albert Pujols, too? I mean, his name was on a leaked "list" of users. Sure, it was a completely bogus and malicious list-- but I mean, it was an actual rumor! Doesn't that make him guilty? But wait, he denied it. So if you believe anything you read, shouldn't that make him innocent?
I have yet to see one shred of actual evidence-- on either side-- with regards to Jack Cust.
I'm not sure if I'm "you guys"
but if so, you've completely misunderstood me.
I have had more than an inkling that Cust did PEDs during his time in the minors. The Mitchell report and Bigbie's testimony made zero difference to me, because I have been convinced since July that Cust is a former steroid user. (I've discussed it here on AN several times, but perhaps you missed those threads.)
But a lot of guys did steroids in the past, and so long as a guy's not using anymore and he's not a jackass about it, I'm willing to forgive him. That's where I was with Cust.
What has changed my mind about Cust is his reaction to the Mitchell report. He could have been straightforward and come clean about it, like a few guys (mostly retired) did. Or he could just keep his mouth shut and say "no comment", like most guys did. Instead, he goes out of his way to deny anything and everything. To me, that's the reaction of a guy who just doesn't get it.
In other words, no, the denial doesn't make me think he's guilty. I already thought he was guilty. The denial makes me think he's being a jackass.
Wear the jersey
Your parents bought you this jersey out of love.
Sure Cust has his demons, but we all do here and there.
If any Seattlite puts you down for it, remember that in the Mitchell Report, all are punished, whether it be the fans, the owners or the players.
If anything wearing the Cust jersey is a statement that despite this dark baseball time, fans still believe in redeeming people.
And he's still one of us.
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