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Mitchell Report - Open Thread

Let's have a diary to talk about the Mitchell Report as names are released today.

Star-divide

The first big name to come out - Roger Clemens.  If Bonds is going to burn in hell for steroid use, I hope there's a chair next to him for Clemens.  

It's not really shocking when you think about how dominant he has been into old age, but still that's got to be the biggest surprise in there.

ESPN article

UPDATE: The list (bold=A's connection)

http://cbs2chicago.com/national/Mitchell.report.baseball.2.609138.html#playerlist

Chad Allen
 Rick Ankiel
 David Bell
 Mike Bell
 Marvin Benard
 Gary Bennett, Jr.
 Larry Bigbie
 Barry Bonds
 Kevin Brown
 Paul Byrd
 Jose Canseco
 Mark Carreon
 Jason Christiansen
 Howie Clark
 Roger Clemens
 Jack Cust
 Brendan Donnelly
 Chris Donnels
 Lenny Dykstra
 Bobby Estalella
 Matt Franco
 Ryan Franklin
 Eric Gagne
 Jason Giambi
 Jeremy Giambi
 Jay Gibbons
 Troy Glaus
 Jason Grimsley
 Jose Guillen
 Jerry Hairston, Jr.
 Matt Herges
 Phil Hiatt
 Glenallen Hill
 Darren Holmes
 Todd Hundley
 David Justice
 Chuck Knoblauch
 Tim Laker
 Mike Lansing
 Paul Lo Duca
 Exavier "Nook" Logan
 Josias Manzanillo
 Gary Matthews, Jr.
 Mark McGwire
 Cody McKay
 Kent Mercker
 Bart Miadich
 Hal Morris
 Daniel Naulty
 Denny Neagle
 Rafael Palmeiro
 Jim Parque
 Andy Pettitte
 Adam Piatt
 Todd Pratt
 Adam Riggs
 Brian Roberts
 John Rocker
 F.P. Santangelo
 Benito Santiago
 Scott Schoeneweis
 David Segui
 Gary Sheffield
 Miguel Tejada
 Ismael Valdez
 Mo Vaughn
 Randy Velarde
 Ron Villone
 Fernando Vina
 Rondell White
 Jeff Williams
 Matt Williams
 Todd Williams
 Steve Woodard
 Kevin Young
 Gregg Zaun

Poll
Clemens to HOF if true?
Yes
130 votes
No
95 votes

225 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs  |  Comment 439 comments

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Comments

Display:

"Let's have ***A*** diary" about the report?

Hell, let's have one for each player named!

"It is almost impossible to exaggerate the complete unimportance of almost everything."

by Poppy on Dec 13, 2007 7:28 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

could have just made it a weak DLD
Signatures? We don't need no stinking signatures.

by jubjub on Dec 13, 2007 7:31 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

LOL!

No.  A Mitchell-Report-Being-Released open thread is a great idea.  One-stop shopping.  But I bet there will be a lot of superfluous diaries today, about individual named players.

"It is almost impossible to exaggerate the complete unimportance of almost everything."

by Poppy on Dec 13, 2007 7:39 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Wow.

I need to go back to bed... I was trying to figure out the what *** in "***A***" meant.

"That doesn't happen in Spiderman."

by Jennifer on Dec 13, 2007 7:46 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Christ, what an asterisk hole
just the right balance of dishonesty and likable qualities @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2007 9:14 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Ugh.

I'm dreading this. I might need to be placed on suicide watch.

"That doesn't happen in Spiderman."

by Jennifer on Dec 13, 2007 7:44 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Placido Polanco has to be on the list.
"It is almost impossible to exaggerate the complete unimportance of almost everything."

by Poppy on Dec 13, 2007 8:08 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Placido Domingo too
I love you, k^2. -Poppy*

by kaweahkaweah on Dec 13, 2007 9:52 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

From jub's link:

"It's going to be a rough day in the Bronx," the paper quoted the source as saying.

Baseball commissioner Bud Selig told the Chicago Tribune that he hadn't seen the report, but he was proud it is coming out.

"People can say Bud was just trying to cover his butt or take care of his legacy or whatever," Selig said, according to the Tribune. "I say [bleep] it. This needed to be done, and now we've done it. I'm just happy it will be out there and we can move on. I'm proud of it."

Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Dec 13, 2007 7:48 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

so a report written by a Red Sox board member

is going to be harsh on the Yankees.  Can't wait.  

Since Theo just had a kid yesterday, maybe Hank Steinbrenner will accuse him of "performance enhancing drugs".  

Signatures? We don't need no stinking signatures.

by jubjub on Dec 13, 2007 7:51 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

jubjub...

If you intended this as an open thread, would you mind editing the diary title so it's not Clemens-specific?  I really think the "Clemens named" part of the title is going to invite a lot of people to post separate diaries for each notable player they hear about...  and that's going to get ridiculous pretty fast...  :\

"It is almost impossible to exaggerate the complete unimportance of almost everything."

by Poppy on Dec 13, 2007 8:14 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

it was a silly marketing trick

to get people to click on the thread, but the Clemens part has been redacted

Signatures? We don't need no stinking signatures.

by jubjub on Dec 13, 2007 8:18 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks for not calling me a diary fascist. ;)
"It is almost impossible to exaggerate the complete unimportance of almost everything."

by Poppy on Dec 13, 2007 8:20 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

diary fascist!

;)

"He has no equivalent." -Paul DePodesta on Jeremy Brown

by flipgatey3 on Dec 13, 2007 8:24 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Dairy fascist!
I'm a little lad who loves berries and cream!

by JediLeroy on Dec 13, 2007 10:07 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Dairy fascicle!
I'm a little lad who loves berries and cream!

by JediLeroy on Dec 13, 2007 10:14 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

fairy Daschle!
just the right balance of dishonesty and likable qualities @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2007 10:41 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

homophobe
"It was OK," Swisher said. "I got the shoulder down, but I didn't wrap. You gotta wrap and drive."

by LAXile on Dec 13, 2007 12:47 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

JUMP, jubjub!

;)

"That doesn't happen in Spiderman."

by Jennifer on Dec 13, 2007 8:25 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

how high?
Signatures? We don't need no stinking signatures.

by jubjub on Dec 13, 2007 8:27 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Can iguanas jump?
"It is almost impossible to exaggerate the complete unimportance of almost everything."

by Poppy on Dec 13, 2007 8:30 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

no but jubjub birds can fly

but only when in a fashion

Signatures? We don't need no stinking signatures.

by jubjub on Dec 13, 2007 8:31 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

passion
Signatures? We don't need no stinking signatures.

by jubjub on Dec 13, 2007 8:32 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm morbidly looking forward to this.

I want NAMES, people! Big ones. I want McGwire and Sosa and Pudge and Palmeiro, Giambi and Gonzalez... I want Clemens and all the evil empire to be hit with a stench. Then, I want there to be consequences.

(And I want no current A's to be affected)

More than just ANtics: http://www.louisgray.com/live/

by louismg on Dec 13, 2007 8:26 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Ditto.

And I hate myself for my fascination.

<sob>

"It is almost impossible to exaggerate the complete unimportance of almost everything."

by Poppy on Dec 13, 2007 8:28 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

the best name that could possibly be in there?

HANK AARON

It would instaneously render the entire discussion of who should or shouldn't be held accountable moot since even the "old guys" did it.  

Of course, he won't be in there, but it would make it a fun Thursday.  

Signatures? We don't need no stinking signatures.

by jubjub on Dec 13, 2007 8:30 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

anyone know what the "red sludge" was?

That was the nickname for some "vitamin/drug cocktail reportedly used widely by MLB players before the steroid era, along with uppers and other stimulants including even cocaine. Some have speculated that many players were quite skinny because their systems were constantly stimulated artificially. I don't know anything about that, although it wouldn't surprise me that many pro athletes might do something like that if they thought it might give them an edge during the long baseball season.

Anyway, I read somewhere that Aaron also took the red sludge. Totally unsubstantiated, of course, but you never know.

by OaklandSi on Dec 13, 2007 8:39 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

There's one pitcher I've always wondered about...

I've never seen the name mentioned, but there are a few things that have made me wonder...he suddenly added about 3-4 mph to his fastball, he had some teammates who have been named previously, he's had a number of physical problems in the last few years.  If this guy is named today, it would not surprise me.  (But I'll be glad if this name does not come up.)

by Soaker on Dec 13, 2007 9:03 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Don't be an ass

Lenny DiNardo doesn't deserve this.

I'd like to eat my lunch, but Billy just kicked me out of my office.

by BlameChannel53 on Dec 13, 2007 9:33 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

that could be

absolutely anyone. that could be me, even though i'm a centerfielder.

"He has no equivalent." -Paul DePodesta on Jeremy Brown

by flipgatey3 on Dec 13, 2007 9:38 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I assume you mean one J. Richard Harden

It's certainly quite possible-- he fits the profile to a T.

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Dec 13, 2007 9:41 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

ooh, ooh, does the one who guesses correctly 1st

win anything?

"Length matters, and if anyone tells you otherwise they're just trying to spare your feelings."-green star oakland

by F171615 on Dec 13, 2007 9:43 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

my guess,

Mark Mulder

"Length matters, and if anyone tells you otherwise they're just trying to spare your feelings."-green star oakland

by F171615 on Dec 13, 2007 9:43 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

He did have medically directed steroid treatment

for his hip injury... maybe something extra?  Hope not.

"It is almost impossible to exaggerate the complete unimportance of almost everything."

by Poppy on Dec 13, 2007 9:45 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Thats what i though too

Mulder.  What about Hudson? We know Zito didn't because he can't throw faster than 89 mph.

A's all the way in 07 . . . oh never mind!

by micdog2001 on Dec 13, 2007 10:44 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

But it's up from 85-86! ;)
"It is almost impossible to exaggerate the complete unimportance of almost everything."

by Poppy on Dec 13, 2007 10:46 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I go to the laundromat...

and come back to find that I started a contest.  I did not name the player because it was meaningless speculation on my part based on my own prejudices.  But F171615 has correctly named the player I had in mind.

by Soaker on Dec 13, 2007 11:28 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Mitchell as Kent Brockman

Mitchell: Now, over the years, a senator learns a number of things that for one reason or another, he just cannot report.  It doesn't seem to matter now, so...the following people are gay did steroids.
Jennifer: Turn it off!
HollywoodOz: Just a second...

link

Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Dec 13, 2007 8:39 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Big Props for this Sal

I remember that scene verbatim. The SNPP link makes this a QOTM candidate.

More than just ANtics: http://www.louisgray.com/live/

by louismg on Dec 13, 2007 10:48 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Thx
Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Dec 13, 2007 10:55 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Well done, sir, well done ...
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Dec 13, 2007 11:49 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

News conferences

Link to where conferences will be -- George Mitchell at 11:00 a.m. Pacific time, and Bud Selig at 1:30 p.m. Pacific.

"It is almost impossible to exaggerate the complete unimportance of almost everything."

by Poppy on Dec 13, 2007 8:57 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Names according to WNBC

Link

Brady Anderson, Manny Alexander, Rick Ankiel, Jeff Bagwell, Barry Bonds, Aaron Boone, Rafaeil Bettancourt, Bret Boone, Milton Bradley, David Bell, Dante Bichette, Albert Belle, Paul Byrd, Wil Cordero, Ken Caminiti, Mike Cameron, Ramon Castro, Jose and Ozzie Canseco, Roger Clemens, Paxton Crawford, Wilson Delgado, Lenn y Dykstra, Johnny Damon, Carl Everett, Kyle Farnsoworth, Ryan Franklin, Troy Glaus, Rich Garces, Jason Grimsley, Troy Glaus, Juan Gonzalez, Eric Gagne, Nomar Garciaparra, Jason Giambi, Jeremy Giambi, Jose Guillen, Jay Gibbons, Juan Gonzalez, Clay Hensley, Jerry Hairston, Felix Heredia, Jr., Darren Holmes, Wally Joyner, Darryl Kile, Matt Lawton, Raul Mondesi, Mark McGwire, Guillermo Mota, Robert Machado, Damian Moss, Abraham Nunez, Trot Nixon, Jose Offerman, Andy Pettitte, Mark Prior, Neifi Perez, Rafael Palmiero, Albert Pujols, Brian Roberts, Juan Rincon, John Rocker, Pudge Rodriguez, Sammy Sosa, Scott Sc hoenweiis, David Segui, Alex Sanchez, Gary Sheffield, Miguel Tejada, Julian Tavarez, Fernando Tatis, Maurice Vaughn, Jason Varitek, Ismael Valdez, Matt Williams and Kerry Wood.

"just a beating heart ... plasma that we'll put into our uniform." Billy Beane

by athleticsBB4life on Dec 13, 2007 9:06 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

"expected to be named"
"It is almost impossible to exaggerate the complete unimportance of almost everything."

by Poppy on Dec 13, 2007 9:08 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

An inside source

already said that list is not entirely correct.  Bradley....Hahaha

Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Dec 13, 2007 9:11 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Bradley?

With his mild mannered disposition?

I'm SHOCKED!

I love you, k^2. -Poppy*

by kaweahkaweah on Dec 13, 2007 9:51 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Bradley seems like the kind of player

who would not do steroids.

Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Dec 13, 2007 9:55 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Check that.

Bradley's personality - such that we've seen in media reports - leads me to believe that he's a pretty principled fellow.  But that's just me, and that's just a guess from reading the media tea leaves.

Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Dec 13, 2007 9:56 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Bagwell and The Farns? Nooooo.

Actually, seeing Tejada and Pujols expected to be named makes me the saddest. :-(

"This must be heaven," he says.
"No. It's Oakland."

by Kyli on Dec 13, 2007 9:14 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Lenn y Dykstra?!?

Not both of them!

Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Dec 13, 2007 9:16 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

LOL
"It is almost impossible to exaggerate the complete unimportance of almost everything."

by Poppy on Dec 13, 2007 9:20 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

¡No!
"That doesn't happen in Spiderman."

by Jennifer on Dec 13, 2007 9:20 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

iPod!
"It is almost impossible to exaggerate the complete unimportance of almost everything."

by Poppy on Dec 13, 2007 9:21 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

not lenny!
"welcome to ME, motherf*^*er!" - tim hudson

by guy incognito on Dec 13, 2007 9:34 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Worse yet:

BOTH Troy Glauses are on there!

I'm a little lad who loves berries and cream!

by JediLeroy on Dec 13, 2007 10:11 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Prior and Wood

Steroids and Dusty Baker = worst possible combination for long-term arm health

"Evidently, a large number of people said, 'We really need more vermin at the ballpark, Artie.'" - Nick, 10/7/07

by doctorK on Dec 13, 2007 9:20 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Really, just

"and Dusty Baker" is enough.

"This must be heaven," he says.
"No. It's Oakland."

by Kyli on Dec 13, 2007 9:29 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Neifi Perez

if Neifi weren't using, then Bobby Crosby would be producing at the Neifi Perez line.

"Length matters, and if anyone tells you otherwise they're just trying to spare your feelings."-green star oakland

by F171615 on Dec 13, 2007 9:44 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Jason Varitek

No, not the Captain!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

by Colorado Fan on Dec 13, 2007 9:44 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

And of course his name wasnt on there...

Guess no more haha.

Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Dec 13, 2007 3:59 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Mitchell
The least he could do was take the Red Sox hat off while conducting interviews.

by Colorado Fan on Dec 14, 2007 9:32 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

so, no current A's?
"The Athletics at Fremont" is a joke

by ArakSOT on Dec 13, 2007 10:06 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Nomar

For years he went to great pains to deny use.

Ha!

I love you, k^2. -Poppy*

by kaweahkaweah on Dec 13, 2007 10:55 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

John Rocker: there's a non-surprise.

I kind of assume he's living under a bridge, swinging a club and demanding people passing overhead pay a toll.

That guy was one massive roid rage episode.

We should play Jack Cust at shortstop for a week, just so we can feel good about Crosby again.

by Ozzz on Dec 13, 2007 11:28 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

"expected to be named"
"It is almost impossible to exaggerate the complete unimportance of almost everything."

by Poppy on Dec 13, 2007 9:08 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Wow, they pulled that page already.

Lawsuit come a-flyin?

Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Dec 13, 2007 9:17 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I love conspiracy theories!

So we already had Billy's meeting in Arizona and Tejada's trade happening before the report goes public.

Now A-Rod finalized his deal this AM.

Intersting timing.

Could it be he's named?

My money is on attention whoring, but it makes for a great theory.

by whyareyou on Dec 13, 2007 9:09 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

The anticipation is like a screwed-up Christmas.

I can't believe I'm so eager for this!

"This must be heaven," he says.
"No. It's Oakland."

by Kyli on Dec 13, 2007 9:13 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Now, don't start peeking...

Don't shake any of those boxes Guillen stashed at the Coliseum...

"It is almost impossible to exaggerate the complete unimportance of almost everything."

by Poppy on Dec 13, 2007 9:15 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Awwwww!

But-but-but Neifi Perez already stole one! I saw him take it into a bathroom stall and he won't share!

"This must be heaven," he says.
"No. It's Oakland."

by Kyli on Dec 13, 2007 9:31 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

me too!

I need a bowl of popcorn or something.....

There's no crying in baseball!

by gigglingone on Dec 13, 2007 9:21 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Does it make me a bad person

that I am setting my day up to take an early lunch so I can watch the 11am conference live?

by 5Aces on Dec 13, 2007 9:52 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I was just wondering

if LaVal's would have it on their big screen TV....

There's no crying in baseball!

by gigglingone on Dec 13, 2007 10:09 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I want to distract my boss

so I can run down there and find out...

"This must be heaven," he says.
"No. It's Oakland."

by Kyli on Dec 13, 2007 11:35 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Neifi Perez...NO!

Brett Boone!?!?

NOOOOOOOOO!!!

"He's a misfit. He gets along with everyone." - Reggie Jackson, describing Joe Rudi

by McFood on Dec 13, 2007 9:19 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Every GG 2nd baseman since 2001 will be named.

Book it.

"It is almost impossible to exaggerate the complete unimportance of almost everything."

by Poppy on Dec 13, 2007 9:23 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

that was some comeback from shoulder injury, tho
just the right balance of dishonesty and likable qualities @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2007 9:34 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Booooooo!
"It is almost impossible to exaggerate the complete unimportance of almost everything."

by Poppy on Dec 13, 2007 9:43 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

anyone watching espn2 right now?

they're talking to john kerry (about the cable thing from the spring) and he just called MLB "the national baseball league".  is that the league manny ortez plays in?

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2007 9:32 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Maybe he was talking about

this

I'm a little lad who loves berries and cream!

by JediLeroy on Dec 13, 2007 10:17 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

*gasp*

sfgate headline:  Batboy key to report

Batboy?!

"It is almost impossible to exaggerate the complete unimportance of almost everything."

by Poppy on Dec 13, 2007 9:39 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

how does a batboy key report?

I mean really, it's a key.

There's no crying in baseball!

by gigglingone on Dec 13, 2007 9:42 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

can anyone help xbhaskarx?

The batboy key fell off his laptop.

just the right balance of dishonesty and likable qualities @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2007 9:44 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

a a a, very funny
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2007 9:46 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

LOL
"It is almost impossible to exaggerate the complete unimportance of almost everything."

by Poppy on Dec 13, 2007 9:46 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Clean, and Clear
just the right balance of dishonesty and likable qualities @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2007 1:55 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Well... your seat wasn't downwind from hers...
"It is almost impossible to exaggerate the complete unimportance of almost everything."

by Poppy on Dec 13, 2007 1:56 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Ah, lunch.

I am eating a mushroom and cambozola sandwich and some kind of Italian bread.

What about you?

Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Dec 13, 2007 9:59 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

A small child.
"That doesn't happen in Spiderman."

by Jennifer on Dec 13, 2007 10:01 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

are you a hamster?
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2007 10:10 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not going to eat lunch today.

Lunchtime is 11:00.  I don't want to leave my desk.

"It is almost impossible to exaggerate the complete unimportance of almost everything."

by Poppy on Dec 13, 2007 10:03 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm eating my lunch now

I know it's 10 am, but I couldn't wait.

by OaklandSi on Dec 13, 2007 10:05 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

We have our annual holiday luncheon today

Sometime during the meal, this one guy will stand up and "sing" the worst imaginable rendition of "O Holy Night". Every year he gets worse and worse. I hate this time of year.

"Evidently, a large number of people said, 'We really need more vermin at the ballpark, Artie.'" - Nick, 10/7/07

by doctorK on Dec 13, 2007 10:05 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

anyone have any spare puppies?

i'm hungry

"Length matters, and if anyone tells you otherwise they're just trying to spare your feelings."-green star oakland

by F171615 on Dec 13, 2007 10:07 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Hot wings and cheese fries

place down the street opens at 11.  I'll make my way as doors open, drive like hell back to my desk.

by 5Aces on Dec 13, 2007 10:10 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Tejada and Pujols

Considering Jose Canseco appears to have been quite accurate in his book, I'm not surprised Tejada's listed on that supposed list.  I'd say when the real list comes out I'd be shocked if he WASN'T on the list.

As for Pujols, he has the same trainer as Jason Grimsley and was mentioned in the discussions after Grimsley confessed everything he knew to the feds when he was with the Diamondbacks.

by Fooch on Dec 13, 2007 10:09 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

as far as the poll is concerned

I think either everyone who is proven to have used PEDs  should be banned, or nobody should.

by OaklandSi on Dec 13, 2007 10:13 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

MLB can use my bAnNiNg wand.
"That doesn't happen in Spiderman."

by Jennifer on Dec 13, 2007 10:15 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I think it really depends ont he situation

Wally Joyner admitted a year or two ago, on his own, that he used roids once then flushed the rest down the toilet.  Not that he is a HOFer, but I think it would be hard to argue that his level of cheating should cause him to be banished from the HOF.

I love you, k^2. -Poppy*

by kaweahkaweah on Dec 13, 2007 10:18 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Wally Joyner always struck me as a real life

Ned Flanders

Signatures? We don't need no stinking signatures.

by jubjub on Dec 13, 2007 10:30 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Ehhhhhh-xcellent
"Evidently, a large number of people said, 'We really need more vermin at the ballpark, Artie.'" - Nick, 10/7/07

by doctorK on Dec 13, 2007 10:38 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

so does the price tag for bonds go up?

now he's just one out of of 50-60 names.

and can they keep bonds out of the hall of fame if they let clemens in?  i say keep them both out, the best hitter and pitcher of our time, they are the perfect representatives for this disgraceful era.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2007 10:23 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

How about if they're inducted,

but we get to brand them with asterisks?

"It is almost impossible to exaggerate the complete unimportance of almost everything."

by Poppy on Dec 13, 2007 10:25 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

can we shoot them into outer space?
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2007 10:38 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

No.

Then they'll just be using space junk.

We should play Jack Cust at shortstop for a week, just so we can feel good about Crosby again.

by Ozzz on Dec 13, 2007 11:24 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

But at least

the space junk will get smaller.

by 5Aces on Dec 13, 2007 11:31 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Sadly apt

I'm in the process of moving -- I'm going to be housesitting for friends of mine who are A's fans of many years' standing.  So I'm here this morning getting the cable hooked up so I can watch ESPN and participate in this thread, I go into the kitchen to look for a glass that I can use to water the house plants while I'm waiting, and what's the first thing I find in the cupboard?  A plastic A's cup with pictures of McGwire and Canseco and the slogan BE THERE WHEN IT HAPPENS AGAIN.  

Beane went on to liken the Winter Meetings to pet hamsters who eat their young.

by Englishmajor on Dec 13, 2007 10:26 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Step 1: take a black marker

Step 2: draw hypodermic needles sticking in their behinds
Step 3: return cup to the cupboard
Step 4: wait 6-9 months for reaction

Signatures? We don't need no stinking signatures.

by jubjub on Dec 13, 2007 10:36 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Hey...

It Happens.

"It is almost impossible to exaggerate the complete unimportance of almost everything."

by Poppy on Dec 13, 2007 10:39 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Not to be a downer/hater

but I always had some reservations about Mark Mulder. After going buco innings for several consecutive years and dpminating, he suddenly fell apart. Surgeries aside, I just have a sneaking suspicion that he stopped using and his body began to respond negatively. Sorry, I love Mark Mulder and I'm not trying to smear his name, I just wanted to get that off my chest. I hope all the current A's are clean.

"Sir Milton Bradley is no longer family."

by mrod on Dec 13, 2007 10:39 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

whoops!

I meant "dominating"

by mrod on Dec 13, 2007 10:39 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

And probably "beaucoups".
"It is almost impossible to exaggerate the complete unimportance of almost everything."

by Poppy on Dec 13, 2007 10:40 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Are those

French law enforcement?

by mrod on Dec 13, 2007 10:41 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Socialiste National De Grammaire
"Evidently, a large number of people said, 'We really need more vermin at the ballpark, Artie.'" - Nick, 10/7/07

by doctorK on Dec 13, 2007 10:44 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

but without the "s"

LOL

Never mind.

"It is almost impossible to exaggerate the complete unimportance of almost everything."

by Poppy on Dec 13, 2007 10:42 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

no, I think that was supposed to be "balco"
just the right balance of dishonesty and likable qualities @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2007 10:43 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I've been hinting/hypothesizing for several years

... that I had a suspicion that Beane's been working to clean out the organization of PEDs more aggressively than MLB, and that the injuries have been part and parcel of that effort. Which theory would go a long way toward explaining why Beane never quite fully addresses the injury issue.

just the right balance of dishonesty and likable qualities @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2007 10:47 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Seems like a real possibility

given the moves he's made and some of the folks who had a short stay.

There's definitely a practicality given to it that I could see Beane going for, given the increased scrutiny of players and the likelyhood of dropping trade value for some guys upon discovery.

Could all be coincidence, but it's certainly something I could see. I mean, he cleaned out the booze for awhile, the PEDs seem like another step. :)

"This must be heaven," he says.
"No. It's Oakland."

by Kyli on Dec 13, 2007 11:40 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

this is possibly

just as good a source of entertainment as the free agent market

"He'd (Reggie Jackson) give you the shirt off his back. Of course he'd call a press conference to announce it" Catfish Hunter

by maffew on Dec 13, 2007 10:42 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

selig:

"I [commissioned the report] when everybody was telling me not to," Selig said Wednesday from his office in Milwaukee. "The union absolutely hated it. My own staff didn't like it. Nobody wanted to do it" .. .. "I haven't seen the report yet, but I'm proud I did it," Selig said. "People can say Bud was just trying to cover his butt or take care of his legacy or whatever. I say [bleep] it. This needed to be done, and now we've done it. I'm just happy it will be out there and we can move on. I'm proud of it."

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2007 10:43 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

What a phony!

Selig is the biggest fraud since snake oil salesmen.........Jackass!

by mrod on Dec 13, 2007 10:45 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, no shit!

Hypocrite!

I love you, k^2. -Poppy*

by kaweahkaweah on Dec 13, 2007 10:50 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

hopefully mitchell comes down hard on selig

in the report.  selig, owners, the players union, they all deserve it as much as the players.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2007 10:52 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yep, couldn't agree more

The all allowed it to happen or even encouraged it.

I love you, k^2. -Poppy*

by kaweahkaweah on Dec 13, 2007 10:54 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, Bud.

I'm so turned on right now by your clarity and decisiveness.

"It is almost impossible to exaggerate the complete unimportance of almost everything."

by Poppy on Dec 13, 2007 10:45 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

lol
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2007 10:47 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Bud actually used bad language?

I would have thought he'd say (consarn) it.

Beane went on to liken the Winter Meetings to pet hamsters who eat their young.

by Englishmajor on Dec 13, 2007 10:47 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

He's working on his street cred
I'd like to eat my lunch, but Billy just kicked me out of my office.

by BlameChannel53 on Dec 13, 2007 10:50 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

whoa, jose canseco

is at the mitchell report press conference......

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2007 10:46 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

what channel are you watching?
"...we don't score six, seven runs. We score three, four runs and play defense and pitch" - Eric Chavez (2006)

by pickinmachine on Dec 13, 2007 10:47 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

they just showed him on espn

before going to commercials.  

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2007 10:48 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Did that "legal analyst"

that was just on, refer to Jason Grimsley, as Jason Priestly? Lol

"...we don't score six, seven runs. We score three, four runs and play defense and pitch" - Eric Chavez (2006)

by pickinmachine on Dec 13, 2007 10:56 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

yes!
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2007 10:58 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

but where's Ozzie?

Is there a Hooters nearby?

Signatures? We don't need no stinking signatures.

by jubjub on Dec 13, 2007 10:58 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

that's pretty funny

My favorite part of his book was always that he/they put his career stats on the cover.

It starts with rule No. 1 from coach Don Nelson: Shoot the ball.

by mikeA on Dec 13, 2007 10:52 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I am now going to peel a tangerine

and try to center myself.

"It is almost impossible to exaggerate the complete unimportance of almost everything."

by Poppy on Dec 13, 2007 10:54 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

wait, what's the connection between

clemens, the yankees trainer, and JOSE CANSECO??

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2007 10:56 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Roger Kossack on ESPN

just said that Jason Priestley was among the players under investigation.  The anchor immediately said "Jason Grimsley?" but Kossack kept on talking.  

Beane went on to liken the Winter Meetings to pet hamsters who eat their young.

by Englishmajor on Dec 13, 2007 10:57 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

yeah that was hilarious
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2007 10:58 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

if the Hall keeps Priestley out ...

... but not Luke Perry, then it loses all credibility.

just the right balance of dishonesty and likable qualities @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2007 11:11 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

photos of personal checks

lo duca, tejada, segui, rondell white...

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2007 10:57 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Can we watch this online.

I think someone gave a link... but I have ADD and can't find it now.

"That doesn't happen in Spiderman."

by Jennifer on Dec 13, 2007 10:58 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

there's a "watch" link on ESPN

http://sports-ak.espn.go.com/mlb/index

but I can't get the media player to launch  :(

"It is almost impossible to exaggerate the complete unimportance of almost everything."

by Poppy on Dec 13, 2007 11:00 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

tried, but got like 2 words over the course of

five minutes

Signatures? We don't need no stinking signatures.

by jubjub on Dec 13, 2007 11:06 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Actually, go to MLB.com main page

if you haven't already done so on your own...

"It is almost impossible to exaggerate the complete unimportance of almost everything."

by Poppy on Dec 13, 2007 11:06 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

*******CUST named in report
"just a beating heart ... plasma that we'll put into our uniform." Billy Beane

by athleticsBB4life on Dec 13, 2007 10:59 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

link?
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2007 10:59 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

No link.....WFAN radio in NY
"just a beating heart ... plasma that we'll put into our uniform." Billy Beane

by athleticsBB4life on Dec 13, 2007 11:00 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Poppy, put the confetti down.
"That doesn't happen in Spiderman."

by Jennifer on Dec 13, 2007 10:59 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

LOL

Hey, I said I didn't care, not that I was rooting for that!  :P~~~

"It is almost impossible to exaggerate the complete unimportance of almost everything."

by Poppy on Dec 13, 2007 11:04 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Full text is in main story

I copied into Blez' lead article.

More than just ANtics: http://www.louisgray.com/live/

by louismg on Dec 13, 2007 11:17 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

......boring.....
"...we don't score six, seven runs. We score three, four runs and play defense and pitch" - Eric Chavez (2006)

by pickinmachine on Dec 13, 2007 11:00 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Full report PDF at ESPN

here

Beane went on to liken the Winter Meetings to pet hamsters who eat their young.

by Englishmajor on Dec 13, 2007 11:00 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Jack Cust
Jack Cust

Jack Cust is an outfielder who began his major league career with the Arizona
Diamondbacks in 2001.  Since then, he has played for five teams in Major League Baseball, the
Diamondbacks, Colorado Rockies, Baltimore Orioles, San Diego Padres, and Oakland Athletics.
In 2007, he played with Oakland.
At the beginning of the 2003 season, Cust and Larry Bigbie were both playing for
Baltimore’s class AAA affiliate in Ottawa.  Bigbie’s locker was next to Cust’s.  Cust eventually
asked Bigbie if he had ever tried steroids.  Bigbie acknowledged he had, and Cust said that he,
too, had tried steroids.  Cust told Bigbie that he had a source who could procure anything he
wanted, but Bigbie informed him he already had a friend who could supply him.
In order to provide Cust with information about these allegations and to give him
an opportunity to respond, I asked him to meet with me; he declined.

"...we don't score six, seven runs. We score three, four runs and play defense and pitch" - Eric Chavez (2006)

by pickinmachine on Dec 13, 2007 11:02 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

ugh
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2007 11:03 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

sigh...
Brian Sabean lol.

by rebus on Dec 13, 2007 11:06 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Is that all they could come up with it?

Totally, totally lame.

Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Dec 13, 2007 11:06 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Not very surprising

Honestly, I don't see how anyone could put themselves in his position at that point (a fringey guy trying to make the bigs via raw power), with everything that was going on, and not feel at least a strong inclination toward doping.

It's sad, but I don't see how you can really condemn him for it.

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Dec 13, 2007 11:16 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

this is why it's tough to listen to those

at least to me, who have the holier-than-thou attitude about it. yes, it's illegal, but ultimately it's the player's choice. in junior college, countless teammates who were on the cusp of getting drafted decided to juice, and i would have to say that it helped them. so many people have no idea what it's like to be pressured like that. i'm a guy who isn't very imposing, but i have tools that translate to playing D1 ball, and i made it there. a friend of mine went to another high school while i was at amador valley. i had a far better high school career than him, but he was two inches taller and played the infield. we then went to the same college and he (allegedly...haha) did steroids, got drafted by the a's last year, then the mets this year, cycled again this summer, and now is playing for a prominent college down south, while i was forced to move my entire life to indiana and walk on. i understand why he did it, and i know it wasn't for me...but i can't help but wonder.

"He has no equivalent." -Paul DePodesta on Jeremy Brown

by flipgatey3 on Dec 13, 2007 4:14 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

+1
just the right balance of dishonesty and likable qualities @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2007 4:34 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Im frantically...

using the "find" key and searching for A's

"...we don't score six, seven runs. We score three, four runs and play defense and pitch" - Eric Chavez (2006)

by pickinmachine on Dec 13, 2007 11:04 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

thanks, keep us updated
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2007 11:05 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

David Justice - former A
Signatures? We don't need no stinking signatures.

by jubjub on Dec 13, 2007 11:09 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

really?
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2007 11:10 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Justice
Radomski said he made one sale to Justice, which occurred after the 2000 World Series.  Justice played for the Yankees that year.  Justice paid Radomski by check for two or three kits of human growth hormone.  Radomski said that he cashed this check.
"...we don't score six, seven runs. We score three, four runs and play defense and pitch" - Eric Chavez (2006)

by pickinmachine on Dec 13, 2007 11:11 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

hey man

I called that someone off your "other" list would be in the report, did I not?

by Cutthemullet on Dec 13, 2007 1:07 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

you did
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2007 3:36 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Cody McKay

and Adam Piatt

Signatures? We don't need no stinking signatures.

by jubjub on Dec 13, 2007 11:10 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Piatt?!

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

"Don't be an ass!" --Bill King

by batgirl on Dec 13, 2007 2:28 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Adam Piatt supplied Tejada

p. 201

I love you, k^2. -Poppy*

by kaweahkaweah on Dec 13, 2007 11:08 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

...There is something bizarre

about this.

"This must be heaven," he says.
"No. It's Oakland."

by Kyli on Dec 13, 2007 11:45 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

online

jennifer and others, someone just told me it's at "cbs sports" (cbssportsline.com?), so try that.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2007 11:08 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Adam Piatt

Adam Piatt played as an outfielder with two teams in Major League Baseball for
portions of four seasons between 2000 and 2003, the Oakland Athletics and Tampa Bay Devil
Rays. In 1999, he was the Oakland Athletics’ Minor League Player of the Year.
After Radomski’s guilty plea was publicly announced, Piatt’s lawyer contacted
us. We later interviewed Piatt, who voluntarily admitted his use of performance enhancing
substances. He accepted full responsibility for his actions and said that he had learned an
important life lesson as a result. Piatt should be commended for his candor, for his willingness
to admit that he made a mistake, and for accepting responsibility for his actions.
Piatt was called up to Oakland from the minor leagues in 2000. He said that he
knew nothing at that time about steroids or amphetamines. In 2001, Piatt contracted a viral
infection and lost 24 pounds in ten days. This illness affected his strength and caused extreme
200
stress. He tried to come back to play baseball in August, but he was unsuccessful. Piatt said that
he worked hard during the off-season to be physically prepared for 2002. During 2002, he
started considering using human growth hormone. He researched the subject extensively that
year.
Piatt recalled that he learned of Kirk Radomski through F.P. Santangelo.
Santangelo and Piatt were teammates on the Oakland Athletics and on Oakland’s minor league
affiliate in Sacramento. Santangelo described Radomski to him as a personal trainer who was
knowledgeable about dietary issues and as a steroids supplier.
Before obtaining any substances, Piatt had several conversations with Radomski.
They discussed Piatt’s diet and what Piatt should do and take to get in optimal shape for the
upcoming year. Radomski recommended that Piatt modify his diet and work on getting in shape
before he started using human growth hormone. The conversations were all by telephone. Piatt
never met Radomski in person.
Piatt believed he initially obtained human growth hormone and either testosterone
or Deca-Durabolin from Radomski. The substances sat unused for a long time, however, before
he tried them. He was more concerned with the possible long-term health risks than with the
ethical issues.
He also thought about the problems he was having in baseball. A friend on the
team told Piatt that he lacked the bat speed he had enjoyed before his illness. Ultimately, Piatt
began using performance enhancing substances during the 2002-03 off-season. Piatt’s typical
regimen was to take one shot of testosterone per week for three to five weeks. He also injected
himself with human growth hormone every day until he contracted carpal tunnel syndrome. He
talked to Radomski about this side effect and then decreased the frequency of his use.
201
Survey drug testing was conducted in Major League Baseball in 2003. Piatt did
not change his regimen because of that testing. He was tested sometime during the summer.
Piatt retired from baseball in 2004 at the age of 28 because he had lost his love for
the game. He believes that he could have played longer. According to Piatt, the time he used
illegal substances was the only time he did not enjoy baseball. He thought he had "compromised
something."
Piatt made some payments to Radomski in 2004, but he said that those were to
satisfy old debts for 2003 shipments. He said he had no need for, and did not use, human growth
hormone after he retired. Piatt noted that Radomski never encouraged Piatt to use more
substances after Piatt said he wanted to stop. Radomski provided eight checks from Piatt, with
dates ranging from 2002 to 2004, and totaling $11,550. All are included in the Appendix. One
is shown below.

Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Dec 13, 2007 11:08 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

nooooooooooooooo
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2007 11:09 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

??

He also injected himself with human growth hormone every day until he contracted carpal tunnel syndrome.

"That doesn't happen in Spiderman."

by Jennifer on Dec 13, 2007 11:12 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Damn

those repetitive stress injuries.  He could've had some physical therapy to learn a different injection technique that wouldn't have put so much strain on his carpal tunnel.  

"Put me down and I'll walk off the field." -- Bradley to Macha, 9/06

by skigurl on Dec 13, 2007 12:55 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

List of A's

Randy Velarde
Jason Giambi
Miguel Tejada
Jose Canseco
FP Santangelo
Adam Piatt
Jose Guillen
Jack Cust
David Justice
Cody McKay

http://www.jlaff.com/ - http://justinlafferty.blogspot.com/

by JLaff on Dec 13, 2007 11:11 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

fp santangelo

doesn't he work for KNBR?  anyone listening to that station?

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2007 11:13 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

FP has always played stupid about Roids

Claimed he never saw it-minded his own business, etc--I ass-umed since he was a little guy he was just following the code of silence.
KNBR has a juicer.

by Aparicio11 on Dec 13, 2007 12:12 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

safe to say

it was rampant in the A's clubhouse

Signatures? We don't need no stinking signatures.

by jubjub on Dec 13, 2007 11:14 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

so only one current a's player

and the cust thing is from when he was on the orioles AAA team?

that's really not so terrible compared to how hard some teams are getting hit (although he was our best hitter).  
given the canseco and balco links, i expected worse.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2007 11:17 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Cust?

God.

We should play Jack Cust at shortstop for a week, just so we can feel good about Crosby again.

by Ozzz on Dec 13, 2007 11:18 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Velarde p 147

Randy Velarde admitted to us, through his lawyer, that he had used performance
enhancing substances he obtained from Greg Anderson. According to his lawyer, if interviewed,
Velarde would have told us he received the "cream" and the "clear" from Anderson in a
transaction that occurred in a parking lot during spring training in 2003. Velarde was playing for
the Oakland Athletics at the time, was near the end of his career and was attempting to play for
another year to support his family.

Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Dec 13, 2007 11:12 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

A look at Velarde told you what you needed

a second baseman built like Popeye---hea was on something before he got to the A's.

by Aparicio11 on Dec 13, 2007 12:14 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Not good for Mickey

p. 203

In Juicing the Game, the author Howard Bryant wrote that during the 2002 season, an airport security screener found a syringe in Tejada’s briefcase.  Tejada reportedly explained that he received a supply of vitamin B12 from the Dominican Republic that he administered to himself.Mickey Morabito, the
director of team travel for the Oakland Athletics, confirmed the incident in an interview with my investigative staff.  He acknowledged that he did not report the incident to anyone with the club or the Commissioner’s Office.

Beane went on to liken the Winter Meetings to pet hamsters who eat their young.

by Englishmajor on Dec 13, 2007 11:14 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Ouch.
"This must be heaven," he says.
"No. It's Oakland."

by Kyli on Dec 13, 2007 11:48 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Justice p 181

Radomski said he made one sale to Justice, which occurred after the 2000 World
Series. Justice played for the Yankees that year. Justice paid Radomski by check for two or
three kits of human growth hormone. Radomski said that he cashed this check.

Justice said that the Commissioner’s Office and the major league clubs did
nothing during his career to discourage players from using steroids. He said that during his
career he was never in a meeting where the players were told "you can’t take steroids" and that
"in my fourteen years there was never a mention of steroids" in any presentation given by any
club, the Commissioner’s Office, or the Players Association. Justice said that he had never been
warned of the side effects or consequences of steroid use and had never been told that steroids
were a banned substance.

Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Dec 13, 2007 11:14 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Quickly scanned, but aside from the

Radomski stuff, the "names" in the report are just a re-hash of previously made allegations with no additional evidence.

Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Dec 13, 2007 11:16 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

it's because there are only a handful of sources

for the entire report, so most of the names from those few sources were already leaked.  

Signatures? We don't need no stinking signatures.

by jubjub on Dec 13, 2007 11:21 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Cust is on the list.

Back to his time with Baltimore.

by Flashfire on Dec 13, 2007 11:16 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Read above what they said about Cust.

If that counts as "proof" of...anything, then monkeyball is my nephew.

"Bigbie’s locker was next to Cust’s.  Cust eventually
asked Bigbie if he had ever tried steroids.  Bigbie acknowledged he had, and Cust said that he,
too, had tried steroids.  Cust told Bigbie that he had a source who could procure anything he
wanted, but Bigbie informed him he already had a friend who could supply him."

ohmigod!  This one time, Jackie told Loni that she saw Cindi kissing Mike!

Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Dec 13, 2007 11:22 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

mikeA, or mikev?
just the right balance of dishonesty and likable qualities @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2007 11:33 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Pics of Cindi?

I'll need them before I can either confirm or deny that it was or was not me kissing her.

by mikev on Dec 13, 2007 3:49 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

whats mitchell saying?

i dont have sound on my work computer..damn bosses

Ray Fosse thinks Pete Rose is a prick......

by oakwin2004 on Dec 13, 2007 11:16 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Just said

Selig shouldn't impose penalties on players for past usage unless conduct was so outrageous that it can't be ignored.

"Evidently, a large number of people said, 'We really need more vermin at the ballpark, Artie.'" - Nick, 10/7/07

by doctorK on Dec 13, 2007 11:22 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

PDF has copies of everyone's checks

Miggy has rather curly handwriting.  Glenallen Hill has a big script H on his checks.  No one yet seems to have kitties or bunnies or flags.

Beane went on to liken the Winter Meetings to pet hamsters who eat their young.

by Englishmajor on Dec 13, 2007 11:16 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

lol
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2007 11:18 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

lol@

LoDuca's handwritten note on Dodgers stationery- pg 259

Brian Sabean lol.

by rebus on Dec 13, 2007 11:20 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I think I spotted some tulips(?).
"That doesn't happen in Spiderman."

by Jennifer on Dec 13, 2007 12:06 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

those probably belonged to the guys ...

... taking steroids intended for women.

just the right balance of dishonesty and likable qualities @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2007 12:07 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

i beat you
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2007 12:09 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

pujols

i don't see pujols in the report. Was that just a rumor then?

by dbeach13 on Dec 13, 2007 11:17 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

No Milton Bradley either
"...we don't score six, seven runs. We score three, four runs and play defense and pitch" - Eric Chavez (2006)

by pickinmachine on Dec 13, 2007 11:18 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

No Nomah
"...we don't score six, seven runs. We score three, four runs and play defense and pitch" - Eric Chavez (2006)

by pickinmachine on Dec 13, 2007 11:23 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

No Brady Anderson

That was a little bit of a shock.

by mikev on Dec 13, 2007 3:50 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

thank god it is

i wudve given up baseball had pujols taken steroids

"Sometimes Joe (morgan) doesn't like facts to get in the way of his opinions."- billy beane

by harendaman365 on Dec 13, 2007 11:56 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

well just because he's not in the report

doesn't mean pujols is clean.  lots of players are not named.  

and we know a trainer closely connected to pujols got steroids for jason grimsley.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2007 11:58 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Red Sox staff were discussing in emails

In December 2006!

In considering whether to trade for (Brendan) Donnelly in 2007, Red Sox baseball operations personnel internally discussed concerns that Donnelly was using performance enhancing substances.  In an email to vice president of player personnel Ben Charington dated December 13, 2006, Zack Scott of the Red Sox baseball operations staff wrote of Donnelly:  “He was a juice guy but his velocity hasn’t changed a lot over the years . . .  If he was a juice guy, he could be a breakdown candidate.”427  Kyle Evans of the baseball operations staff agreed with these concerns, responding in an email that “I haven’t heard many good things about him, w[ith] significant steroid rumors.”

Beane went on to liken the Winter Meetings to pet hamsters who eat their young.

by Englishmajor on Dec 13, 2007 11:21 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Right...

why does it feel like he just skated over the RedSox then?

by Zonis on Dec 13, 2007 11:30 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Lots of players who have been with the Red Sox

at one time. The biggest thing to me though is the reports that the Red Sox front office repeatedly and recently discussed steroids when considering signings, concluded that the players involved (Donnelly, Gagne, still reading) were juicing and still signed them. And that the only concern seemed to be that the steroids might lead them to break down.

by green star oakland on Dec 13, 2007 11:31 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

For example

When the Boston Red Sox were considering acquiring Gagné, a Red Sox official made specific inquiries about Gagné’s possible use of steroids.  In a November 1, 2006 email to a Red Sox scout, general manager Theo Epstein asked, "Have you done any digging on Gagne?  I know the Dodgers think he was a steroid guy.  Maybe so.  What do you hear on his medical?"  The scout, Mark Delpiano, responded,  "Some digging on Gagne and steroids IS the issue.  Has had a checkered medical past throughout career including minor leagues. Lacks the poise and commitment to stay healthy, maintain body and re invent self.  What made him a tenacious closer was the max effort plus stuff . . .  Mentality without the plus weapons and without steroid help probably creates a large risk in bounce back durability and ability to throw average while allowing the change-up to play as it once did . . .  Personally, durability (or lack of) will follow Gagne . . ."

Doesn't make Epstein look so good.

by green star oakland on Dec 13, 2007 11:35 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Cust used them??

So now we won't feel guilty rooting for Barry next season, will we?

by BWH on Dec 13, 2007 11:23 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Some of us..

..will feel guilty rooting for either.

And, as a result, not root for either.

We should play Jack Cust at shortstop for a week, just so we can feel good about Crosby again.

by Ozzz on Dec 13, 2007 11:30 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

ZOMG, Cust might have taken PED's 4 years ago

in the minors!

...because that's obviously the same as a guy using to try and break the all-time home run record.

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Dec 13, 2007 11:39 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I didn't say it was the same.
I said I couldn't support him.

Put words in folks' mouths much?

We should play Jack Cust at shortstop for a week, just so we can feel good about Crosby again.

by Ozzz on Dec 13, 2007 12:54 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You can't support a player

who might have taken steroids four years ago in the minor leagues?

Have you considered switching your viewership to ping-pong?

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Dec 13, 2007 1:12 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I think he's just restricted to Frank Thomas

at bats at this point.

Brian Sabean lol.

by rebus on Dec 13, 2007 1:18 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Pretty much.
And Eric Chavez, because clearly that dude isn't getting any power advantages from anything.
We should play Jack Cust at shortstop for a week, just so we can feel good about Crosby again.

by Ozzz on Dec 14, 2007 10:22 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

seriously, though ...

... what do you think of the irresponsible-yet-plausible-speculation that Chavez was on 'roids (during the Giambi era and shortly thereafter) and his subsequent physical breakdown has actually been a consequent physical breakdown?

just the right balance of dishonesty and likable qualities @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 14, 2007 2:32 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Personally..
I don't have a whole lot of doubt.

Now, just wait for the 'that wouldn't stand up in a court of law' crowd to show up.

We should play Jack Cust at shortstop for a week, just so we can feel good about Crosby again.

by Ozzz on Dec 15, 2007 11:36 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I can't support a player who...
..not only 'might' have been taking them, but was also telling other players he had a hook-up if they wanted them too.

Here's my thing - why would Larry Begbie name Cust if it hadn't happened? Just pulling names out of the air? Why? To what advantage?

He named him, because it happened. And if it happened as he said, then Cust wasn't just using - he was promoting.

We should play Jack Cust at shortstop for a week, just so we can feel good about Crosby again.

by Ozzz on Dec 14, 2007 10:24 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

At the same time...

Let's not let him off just because he's an A.

The "evidence," er, hearsay, against him is pretty weak, and there are no recent allegations against him.

Still.  What if Cust were an Angel?  Or a Yankee?  Would we be giving him the same benefit of the doubt?  I don't have a problem with Cust, and would like to think he's been clean since 2003.  But I'm not going to sit a vehemently defend him just because he hits homers while wearing white shoes.  

Again, the allegations against Cust specifically look weak, but I don't think Bigbie or Mitchell has any reason to go out of their way to implicate him unless he actually did steroids.  

Unless Cust accidentally ran over Bigbie's dog with a car.  

*Replace the word, "accidentally" with, "repeatedly," and the word, "dog" with, "son."

by BWH on Dec 13, 2007 1:55 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Mitchell: From my experience in Northern Ireland

I learned the importance of learning from the past!

Beane went on to liken the Winter Meetings to pet hamsters who eat their young.

by Englishmajor on Dec 13, 2007 11:24 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Troy Glaus
Days before its article about Gibbons, Sports Illustrated reported that the name of Toronto Blue Jays infielder Troy Glaus also had been in Signature Pharmacy customer records.479  According to the article, between September 2003 and May 2004, Glaus reportedly purchased nandrolone and testosterone from the pharmacy through the New Hope Health Center, a California anti-aging clinic, using prescriptions written by Dr. Ramon Scruggs, a California physician who was suspended from practice as of March 2007 for issuing prescriptions over the internet.  

The drugs were shipped to Glaus at his home in California.  Glaus declined to comment on these allegations.480 Glaus reportedly met with officials from the Commissioner’s Office in September 2007.  On December 6, 2007, the Commissioner’s Office announced that there was insufficient evidence of a violation of the joint program in effect at the time of the conduct in question to warrant discipline of Glaus.

"...we don't score six, seven runs. We score three, four runs and play defense and pitch" - Eric Chavez (2006)

by pickinmachine on Dec 13, 2007 11:27 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

They had a 'joint program'?

Is there ANY drug these guys won't use?

We should play Jack Cust at shortstop for a week, just so we can feel good about Crosby again.

by Ozzz on Dec 13, 2007 11:31 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

So.........

"On December 6, 2007, the Commissioner’s Office announced that there was insufficient evidence of a violation of the joint program in effect at the time"........means that they just lacked the proper rolling papers"...................ouch!

by mrod on Dec 13, 2007 8:14 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think youre supposed to

MLB knows they can't fix a problem when players and teams alike benefit from it.  Dissatisfied fans are a huge weapon.

"I'm so green and gold that I hang on every pitch, not just every game." - Lew Wolff

by BleacherDrummer on Dec 13, 2007 1:32 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Primer is down.

Traffice overload, I'm sure.

Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Dec 13, 2007 11:29 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Words of wisdom from Pinto

Update: Mitchell is concerned about the children. Screw them. Teenagers are going to use drugs no matter how good an example adults set.

http://www.baseballmusings.com/archi...

Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Dec 13, 2007 11:31 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

so levels of drug use would be the same

whether or not kids were exposed to drugs from their relatives and other adults?  
i don't know about that...
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2007 11:36 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

What that is is

fighting inane posturing with inane posturing.

It starts with rule No. 1 from coach Don Nelson: Shoot the ball.

by mikeA on Dec 13, 2007 11:48 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

So he has one great source...

and the rest of it is names we already knew.  Not as interesting as it was made out to be.

Clemens, Pettitte, Tejada....very interesting, the rest is whatever.

Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Dec 13, 2007 11:32 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

From what it sounds

it sounds like they are saying that we NEED an HGH testing program and blood testing...

while simultaniously telling players its ok to keep cheating, cause we can't catch you.

by Zonis on Dec 13, 2007 11:32 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Why is taking Steroids a "mistake"

how is deliberatly taking them a "mistake" and thus excusable just like that?

by Zonis on Dec 13, 2007 11:35 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

hahaha

is anyone getting cross audio on espn from espn deportes?

"...we don't score six, seven runs. We score three, four runs and play defense and pitch" - Eric Chavez (2006)

by pickinmachine on Dec 13, 2007 11:36 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, I got that, too
"It is almost impossible to exaggerate the complete unimportance of almost everything."

by Poppy on Dec 13, 2007 11:38 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

lol

I take it you heard it too

"...we don't score six, seven runs. We score three, four runs and play defense and pitch" - Eric Chavez (2006)

by pickinmachine on Dec 13, 2007 11:37 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm much more interested in Mitchell's framing

... (and, yes, that's an intentional double entendre) of the issue than in the, as others have noted above, hearsay/rehash/nonsurprise list of names.

Mitchell is fairly even-handed -- while he implicitly lays most of the blame for the current mess at the feet of the MLBPA, he concedes that there is a lot of validity to the union's allegation that MLB itself apparently didn't give two shits about the issue until 2002.

just the right balance of dishonesty and likable qualities @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2007 11:38 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

I just listened to his live statement

and downloaded the report. I summed up some of his statement and put the MLB link to the report in the main diary that Blez just published.

by OaklandSi on Dec 13, 2007 11:39 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

well fay vincent cared

at least a little bit.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2007 11:40 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

there's "cared," there's "tried to do something,"

... and there's "finally officially consolidated owners' total control of the OotC and did squat for years while reaping the greater macroeconomic benefits of the PEDs."

just the right balance of dishonesty and likable qualities @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2007 11:45 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah

Mitchell is handling this very well.  I'm reversing my opinion of him.

by dscel on Dec 13, 2007 11:42 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Crap.
"BTW, this is ridiculous..." -- devo

by oblique on Dec 13, 2007 11:39 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

FP Santangelo fan, eh?
"It is almost impossible to exaggerate the complete unimportance of almost everything."

by Poppy on Dec 13, 2007 11:43 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Extreme.
"BTW, this is ridiculous..." -- devo

by oblique on Dec 13, 2007 11:44 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Matt Williams
In the same November 6, 2007 article that reported on Ismael Valdez and Jose Guillen, the San Francisco Chronicle reported that retired infielder Matt Williams purchased human growth hormone, steroids, syringes, and other drugs from the Palm Beach Rejuvenation Center in 2002, when he was playing with the Arizona Diamondbacks. Between 1987 and 2003, Williams played with the San Francisco Giants, Cleveland Indians, and Arizona Diamondbacks.

According to the article, Palm Beach Rejuvenation Center records show that on March 9, 2002, Williams ordered $5,693 of testosterone cypionate, human growth hormone, clomiphene, Novarel, and syringes, and on May 8, 2002, Williams ordered $6,000 worth of testosterone cypionate, nandrolone, clomiphene, Novarel, and syringes.  The orders reportedly were sent to Williams at a business address in Scottsdale, Arizona.  The article reported that “Williams’ prescriptions were written by the same dentist who prescribed [human] growth hormone for [Paul] Byrd and [Jose] Guillen.”

The article reported that Williams admitted that a doctor told him that human growth hormone might help him heal from an ankle injury that he had suffered in 2002.  “He said he learned about the Florida center from a health magazine and went through a battery of tests before obtaining a prescription for growth hormone in 2002.”  Williams reportedly said that he did not know that a dentist had written prescriptions for him.  He did not comment on whether he had ordered or used steroids or drugs intended for use by women, as reportedly reflected in the records. Neither I nor any member of my investigative staff had any prior knowledge of any allegation about Williams.

"...we don't score six, seven runs. We score three, four runs and play defense and pitch" - Eric Chavez (2006)

by pickinmachine on Dec 13, 2007 11:42 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

In other words:

"I read a newspaper article implicating Matt Williams and did not conduct any follow up work."

Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Dec 13, 2007 11:48 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

"steroids or drugs intended for use by women"?

Give. Me. A. Fucking. Break. That statement, while technically within the bounds of truth, is willfully ignorant and inaccurate and intentionally defamatory.

That's like saying "John Doe did not comment on whether he had ordered or used penicillin or antibiotics intended for use in making cheese, as reportedly reflected in the records."

just the right balance of dishonesty and likable qualities @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2007 11:50 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm missing the defamatory part, I think.
"It is almost impossible to exaggerate the complete unimportance of almost everything."

by Poppy on Dec 13, 2007 11:52 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

twofold
  1. Insinuating that Williams used drugs not intended for the purpose to which he took them (which is, in fact, true of pretty much every single player named)
  1. Taking the unnecessary step of adding the noninformative detail of "intended for women," which is Mitchell's equivalent of photoshopping a purse on A-Rod running to first
just the right balance of dishonesty and likable qualities @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2007 11:55 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Okay on #1,

but come on re: #2.  It's not exactly like he made both of those points separately (like "Williams took drugs for purposes for which they were not intended, and some of them were even intended for women.").  Saying that he took drugs that were intended for women is just making it explicitly clear that he was not using them for their intended purpose, since, obviously, he's a man.

"It is almost impossible to exaggerate the complete unimportance of almost everything."

by Poppy on Dec 13, 2007 12:02 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

disagree vehemently

Why make either point in this instance, but not in others?

My guess: most of the individual "guilty" player narratives were written by different investigators/lawyers/assistants/paralegals, and no one ever spent any time applying consistent framing/editing to them. (Understandable, because doing that would have pushed back the pub date by a good 4 months.)

just the right balance of dishonesty and likable qualities @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2007 12:05 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

If the point is that he used drugs for purposes

other than their intended purpose, why not phrase it in a way that makes that fact very clear?  If they reported that he was using bovine hormones, would you be upset that they're likening Williams to a cow?

"It is almost impossible to exaggerate the complete unimportance of almost everything."

by Poppy on Dec 13, 2007 12:09 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

So repeating something from a newspaper

article is defamatory? Lazy maybe, but come on...

It starts with rule No. 1 from coach Don Nelson: Shoot the ball.

by mikeA on Dec 13, 2007 12:04 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'll give Mitchell/team "lazy"

Newspaper gets defamatory.

just the right balance of dishonesty and likable qualities @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2007 12:06 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

It's not libelous,

at least assuming that it's true.

If the truth is defamatory... well, tough cookies in my book.

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Dec 13, 2007 12:12 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

monkey

I suggest you bone up on steroid use before you suggest ulterior motives.

Steroid users DO use "steroids or drugs intended for use by women".

He's referring to drugs like Clomid or Human Chorionic Gonadotropin.

They take this drugs for to restimulate testosterone production after they come off a cycle.

They also take various drugs, usually used by women, to block estradio.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Dec 13, 2007 12:32 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Or talk to some friends who

are body builders, weight lifters, power lifters.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Dec 13, 2007 12:33 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

to block ESTRADIOL
ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Dec 13, 2007 12:33 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

and I suggest you bone up on remedial reading

As I clearly stated, all of the accused 'roid users could have accurately been described as same. Nowhere did I say that this wasn't true.

Mitchell/staff's mistake here was being lazy and just repeating the newspaper's account without editing it to fit into the narrative of the entire report.

just the right balance of dishonesty and likable qualities @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2007 1:04 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Did you not say

"Taking the unnecessary step of adding the noninformative detail of "intended for women," which is Mitchell's equivalent of photoshopping a purse on A-Rod running to first"

This is NOT the equivalent of "photoshopping a purse on A-Rod running to first"

Steroid users DO use "steroids or drugs intended for use by women", to restimulate test production and to block estradiol.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Dec 13, 2007 1:09 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

take things out of context, much?

I will stand by that comment in its context.

just the right balance of dishonesty and likable qualities @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2007 1:14 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

technically...

rather than being upset that that detail was added in Williams' case, I think the issue is more that it wasn't subtracted.  In any event, why so defensive?  Remedial reading line was funny but unnecessary.

by Cutthemullet on Dec 13, 2007 1:28 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

also, going back to your original post

How can something be simultaneously within the bounds of truth and inaccurate?  What the fuck does that mean?

by Cutthemullet on Dec 13, 2007 1:31 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

to clarify

I take "inaccurate" to be all-but-synonymous with "false"...thus my bewilderment.

by Cutthemullet on Dec 13, 2007 1:34 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

"rfloh and cutthemullet ..."

" ... both posted using technology that is used for child p*rn*graphy."

True, but inaccurate.

just the right balance of dishonesty and likable qualities @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2007 2:06 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Is that inaccurate?

That's probably the wrong question to ask here...you didn't help me out any with the example you chose...but wouldn't that be..."true, and accurate, but...misleading"?

by Cutthemullet on Dec 13, 2007 2:12 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

What is it that you think

people were going to infer from the "drugs intended for women" thing?

It starts with rule No. 1 from coach Don Nelson: Shoot the ball.

by mikeA on Dec 13, 2007 2:17 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

And what is that context?

The fact is that drugs like Clomid, HCG, Nolvadex, also known as tamoxifen citrate are typically used by women.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Dec 13, 2007 1:40 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

in the Report, he *recommends* they not be

... unless, of course, their use was so damaging to the Psyche of the Nation that the Commissioner had no choice but to save the Republic by condemning the villain.

It's the Let-Bud-Ban-Bonds clause.

just the right balance of dishonesty and likable qualities @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2007 11:53 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

yep, exactly
"...we don't score six, seven runs. We score three, four runs and play defense and pitch" - Eric Chavez (2006)

by pickinmachine on Dec 13, 2007 11:54 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

but those HGH guys, watch out!
Signatures? We don't need no stinking signatures.

by jubjub on Dec 13, 2007 12:03 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Cust's name in there,

regardless of the context, still makes me sad. Not gonna help him tryin' to get his career solidified.

"This must be heaven," he says.
"No. It's Oakland."

by Kyli on Dec 13, 2007 11:53 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Well...

I think I have some reading material for this weekend's snow storm.

"That doesn't happen in Spiderman."

by Jennifer on Dec 13, 2007 11:54 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Seems appropriate

A shit-storm in a snow-storm.

by green star oakland on Dec 13, 2007 11:57 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, the weather outside is frightful...
"BTW, this is ridiculous..." -- devo

by oblique on Dec 13, 2007 11:58 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Cust def. loses some luster off his star
"just a beating heart ... plasma that we'll put into our uniform." Billy Beane

by athleticsBB4life on Dec 13, 2007 11:57 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

hell no

he isnt taking steroids at this time. And honestly can you blame the guy, a great hitter, watching as lesser guys juicing up get to the big leagues, and hes left to wile his time in crappy hotel rooms? Doesnt make it right, but his sill story is still luster-ish, i gess...

"Sometimes Joe (morgan) doesn't like facts to get in the way of his opinions."- billy beane

by harendaman365 on Dec 13, 2007 12:00 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't presume that. Where did I say that?

But apparently, you are presuming he isn't using.

I love you, k^2. -Poppy*

by kaweahkaweah on Dec 13, 2007 12:30 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

It's the look on your face.
"It is almost impossible to exaggerate the complete unimportance of almost everything."

by Poppy on Dec 13, 2007 12:39 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Adam Piatt and Larry Bigbie said you did.

5 years ago.

just the right balance of dishonesty and likable qualities @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2007 1:05 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Since he hasn't tested positive

I'm pleasantly assuming he's clean now.

by methodrampage on Dec 13, 2007 12:25 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

No test for HGH.

Alas.

We should play Jack Cust at shortstop for a week, just so we can feel good about Crosby again.

by Ozzz on Dec 13, 2007 12:27 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Once guilty, always guilty?
It's a pointless argument and one I care little about.  Maybe I'm selfish, maybe I'm just indifferent, but if Jack Cust wants to take HGH so I can watch him hit monstrous homeruns then so be it.

by methodrampage on Dec 13, 2007 3:09 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

And the kids who do likewise...
..to try to get to his level, and maybe die/get messed up as a result?

Saying that if a guy wants to screw up his life to hit dingers, you don't care, fails to consider that for every guy like that who sits in the bigs for several seasons being a monster, there's another ten guys beneath him who will have to do likewise to try to take his spot.

Kids die from steroid use every year, and the fact that it's so rampant at the top is why.

We should play Jack Cust at shortstop for a week, just so we can feel good about Crosby again.

by Ozzz on Dec 14, 2007 10:10 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Jack "The Murderer" Cust
Do more kids die from steroids or alcohol?

I'm far from a humanitarian and I don't these kids dieing from steroids, henceforth I don't care and will continue to enjoy watch Cust hits monstrous homeruns added by HGH or not.

by methodrampage on Dec 14, 2007 12:59 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

truly, an honorable post

assuming you omitted the word "see" between "don't" and "these", all I have to say is...fucked up.

by Cutthemullet on Dec 14, 2007 2:38 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Add literate to the list of things I'm not
What have you done to stop all these kids from dieing from steroids?  Anything?  If not you're passively agreeing that you don't care and in that case your just as fucked up as I am.

But I also don't believe there's an epidemic of kids dieing from steroids.

by methodrampage on Dec 18, 2007 10:24 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Kids die from steroids?

I'll bet you $50 that more kids drown in buckets every year than die from steroid use.

Actually, I know that's true. Steroid use is well documented in literature, and the side effects are highly dose dependent. Misuse and overdose is a problem like any other drug, but in general they are quite safe to use if done properly. The problem is, they are labeled as "bad," so information and education is limited, and then you get problems.

by MrIncognito on Dec 14, 2007 2:27 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

information is limited...

but use is well-documented?  Does that make sense?  

And I'm sure the statistics on kids drowning in buckets is well-documented enough for you to know that your exaggeration is actually true.  Buckets?  Maybe in developing countries or something, but I thought we were talking about the good old US of A here.  This is the "national pastime", after all.

I'd say with the resources on the Internet, you'd be able to find some pretty reliable steroid usage...advice.  Not that I've ever even looked for voyeuristic purposes...or research...or whatever.

by Cutthemullet on Dec 14, 2007 2:37 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

clarification
Information to potential users is limited. Information available to healthcare professionals is fairly complete. There aren't many HS kids who have access to pub med and medical references. Googling isn't the best way to dose yourself.

by MrIncognito on Dec 15, 2007 11:24 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

there goes my respect for Al Simmons
just the right balance of dishonesty and likable qualities @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 14, 2007 2:39 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

So let me get this straight.
You're saying not enough kids die from steroids for it to matter?

wow.

We should play Jack Cust at shortstop for a week, just so we can feel good about Crosby again.

by Ozzz on Dec 15, 2007 11:40 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

didn't you say upthread...

that if Pujols were to be indicted here (not in the legal sense), that you would've been pissed and, like, stopped following the game?  Seems like a double standard, man.

by Cutthemullet on Dec 13, 2007 1:37 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

i dunno about that

1, this is all heresay. 2, this refers to a few years ago. if these allegations were from last year, that'd be different. also, from what i remember, cust was always around this size. he didn't get noticeably bigger if he juiced. unfortunate, sure (if true), but i don't think it's that big a deal.

"welcome to ME, motherf*^*er!" - tim hudson

by guy incognito on Dec 13, 2007 12:03 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

frank thomas

the only player besides jason giambi (who had no choice because they threatened him) to cooperate with the mitchell report.  

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2007 11:59 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Big Hurt: the Elia Kazan of baseball
just the right balance of dishonesty and likable qualities @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2007 12:02 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

lol
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2007 12:04 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Adam Piatt

Sounds like Piatt was pretty darn cooperative...

by LoveDemAs on Dec 13, 2007 12:05 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

i'm just repeating what espn said
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2007 12:10 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Former player.

NT

We should play Jack Cust at shortstop for a week, just so we can feel good about Crosby again.

by Ozzz on Dec 13, 2007 12:25 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

lol...read this

"bigbie was also concerned that taking HGH would hinder his ability to have children"

"Sometimes Joe (morgan) doesn't like facts to get in the way of his opinions."- billy beane

by harendaman365 on Dec 13, 2007 12:02 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

his roids "were intended for use by women"
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2007 12:04 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

but he's in there a bunch
Signatures? We don't need no stinking signatures.

by jubjub on Dec 13, 2007 12:05 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

i don't understand

how can they keep saying he's not named if he's in there a bunch?

by OaklandSi on Dec 13, 2007 12:07 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

They keep saying

"Some really freaking huge dude with red hair, a bad goatee, and serious acne issues."

No names, though.

We should play Jack Cust at shortstop for a week, just so we can feel good about Crosby again.

by Ozzz on Dec 13, 2007 12:26 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

*BUSTED*

That's me.

just the right balance of dishonesty and likable qualities @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2007 1:06 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

LOL

by the way Urban is saying that initial reports that McGwire was not named are inaccurate.

I haven't seen the players in any list in this 200+ page report. You have to go through the whole thing and  note each individual name...so people making quick lists may be making mistakes.

(I'll resist the urge to stop working and go through the report!)

by OaklandSi on Dec 13, 2007 1:14 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

"and" appears 3293 times

That And fellow is real piece of work!

I love you, k^2. -Poppy*

by kaweahkaweah on Dec 13, 2007 1:34 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

But we all know

who the (7703) real culprit is.

by green star oakland on Dec 13, 2007 1:38 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I bet AN appears in that report a lot.
"It is almost impossible to exaggerate the complete unimportance of almost everything."

by Poppy on Dec 13, 2007 1:58 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

*BUSTED*

That's me.

Urban drives a taxi.

by andeux on Dec 13, 2007 2:16 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

A quick use of the "find" function

can verify individual players ... the report discusses McGwire at great length -- though it does not appear to reveal anything new (he used Andro in 98, he was named in Canseco's book, Operation Equine, he said nothing to Congress).

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Dec 13, 2007 1:53 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I remember FP talking about seeing players use

steroids in the Expos locker room, and how it was always around, when the issue came up on the radio in an interview.

There is a tiny 'LOL' factor remembering those comments now.

"This must be heaven," he says.
"No. It's Oakland."

by Kyli on Dec 13, 2007 12:09 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I remember that...

He talked about how he didn't care if other people did it because it would just make the team better.  Telling, in hindsight.

by towndunce on Dec 13, 2007 12:33 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Not a big deal.

Honestly, what did anyone expect?  These guys get payed to perfrom at their highest ability and if MLB had no problem, at the time, with them enhancing their ability artifically then neither do I.

And don't get started on the "but steroids are illegal" thing.  Up until 3 or 4 years ago the government didn't do anything to really enforce the illegality of steroids much like MLB.

by methodrampage on Dec 13, 2007 12:36 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Randy Velarde

wasn't highlighted in the updated list.

Also, Bobby Estaella used steriods? DUH!!

A's all the way in 07 . . . oh never mind!

by micdog2001 on Dec 13, 2007 1:13 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

HAVE YOU NO SENSE OF DECENCY, SIR?

If you did, you'd come up with your own personal Mitchel report like I did:

LAXile's Own Personal Mitchel Report:
Roger Clemens
Rogers Hornsby
Kirby Puckett
Bruno Kirby
Billy Beane
Beanie Babies (especially Erin)
Marco Scutaro
Eric Byrnes
Floyd Landis
Jason Kendal
Poppy
Mother Teresa
The NFL
1992 Olympic Swedish Curling Team
Hannah Montana
Brett Farve
John Edwards
Wallace Shawn
Mink Stole
Irma Vep
Babe Ruth
Justin AND Kelly
Shrek
Captain Beefheart
Madonna
The Jolly Green Giant (is this really a surprise?)
Lightening McQueen
Barry Bonds
Barry White
Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee
Cher (duh)
oaktoon

"It was OK," Swisher said. "I got the shoulder down, but I didn't wrap. You gotta wrap and drive."

by LAXile on Dec 13, 2007 1:17 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

"I have in my hand

a list of 206 card-carrying steroid users currently employed in major league baseball..."

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Dec 13, 2007 1:31 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Don't forget this guy...

"It is almost impossible to exaggerate the complete unimportance of almost everything."

by Poppy on Dec 13, 2007 1:49 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I have to say

This is possibly the single funniest picture I've ever seen.

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Dec 13, 2007 3:02 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Either that's a really small couch

or that (gulp) cat's locker is next to Mark Sweeney's. (And don't think I want play the Sweeney card a few more times in this thread.)

"It was OK," Swisher said. "I got the shoulder down, but I didn't wrap. You gotta wrap and drive."

by LAXile on Dec 13, 2007 4:47 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

that cat took steroids intended for a dog
just the right balance of dishonesty and likable qualities @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2007 5:15 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

My Dinner With Andre

... Andre the Giant!

just the right balance of dishonesty and likable qualities @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2007 2:01 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Damn it

I should have known Van Vliet was using bovine growth hormone. I'll never listen to "Trout Mask Replica" again.

Urban drives a taxi.

by andeux on Dec 13, 2007 2:17 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

for that album, Don used piscine growth hormone

... and, of course, a masking agent.

just the right balance of dishonesty and likable qualities @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2007 2:20 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

apparently, his locker was next to Mark Sweeney's
"It was OK," Swisher said. "I got the shoulder down, but I didn't wrap. You gotta wrap and drive."

by LAXile on Dec 13, 2007 4:44 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'll never watch winter Olympians from Sweden

again...their biathlon squad is definitely tainted in my eyes.

by Cutthemullet on Dec 13, 2007 2:27 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I hear

that their bikini team was also artificially enhanced.

Urban drives a taxi.

by andeux on Dec 13, 2007 3:08 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

A squid eating dough in a polyethylene bag

is fast and bulbous.

I'm a little lad who loves berries and cream!

by JediLeroy on Dec 13, 2007 4:28 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

That's right The Mascara Snake!

Fast n bulbous. Tight also.

Urban drives a taxi.

by andeux on Dec 13, 2007 4:39 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The List of A's

One thing about the bolded A's on that list is that with the exception of Cust, everyone else has been shipped out.  While I don't doubt that Beane would've kept 'em all for the right price, you have to wonder if the steroids issue was a factor in their departure - Guillen in particular.

Does anyone have thoughts on how Billy Beane handled the steroid matter relative to other front office execs?

"I'm so green and gold that I hang on every pitch, not just every game." - Lew Wolff

by BleacherDrummer on Dec 13, 2007 1:23 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I suppose its possible

that learning that Cust was juicing (and the attendant injury problems... including carpal tunnel syndrome) led to the A's not trying very hard to keep him in the org after 2005. That would kind of beg the question, however: If that's true, why did they let him back in?

Maybe they figured with the new emphasis on testing this year, they could actually view him as clean when he wasn't busted in the first month of the season.

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Dec 13, 2007 1:36 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Well ...
McGwire and Canseco left pre-Beane and under circumstances that would not lead to steroids being the reason ...

Velarde, Santangelo and Justice retired with the A's ...

Ostensibly, Beane tried hard to get Ja Giambi to return ...

Adam Piatt was given every chance to stick with them team ... but eventually he was out of options, so they had to let him go ...

Cody McKay was blocked by Chavez (And had no future in the Majors, anyway ...) so when he became a minor league free agent, he left.

It's possible that steroids could have contributed to Beane's decision to choose Chavez over Tejada.

Je Giambi and Guillen were shipped out/let go for behavioral problems -- clearly a possible steroids link.

As a whole, I don't think there is a pattern developing here ...

"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Dec 13, 2007 2:03 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe not, but maybe so

I've long thought (and monkeyball said something similar upthread) that there might have been a conscious decision around 2001 to clean the team up - not so much out of a moral objection to steroids, but either because of concerns about players breaking down or because Beane saw the writing on the wall and didn't want the A's to become the poster child franchise for steroids (any more than they already were) when stuff started becoming public. Specifically:

Stairs was traded in 2000 (and an AN'er who seems to know these things has told me that he was the main supplier for a lot of his teammates at the time).
Giambi left after 2001, and there were a lot of rumblings soon after that the real hangup with his extension was not the no-trade clause, but that Schott/Hoffman didn't want to commit so much money to a juicer.
Little Brother Jeremy was traded and best buddy Frank Menechino was demoted as part of the 2002 purge.
Tejada left after 2002, and Beane has talked about that decision having some "context" that he didn't want to get into.

Granted there are a lot of "maybes" in there, and the franchise hasn't been completely clean in subsequent years (Guillen, Cust), but it certainly seemed to me that there was an effort to make Oakland less of the laboratory that it had been known as.

On a related note, I've also wondered how much the Moneyball philosophy of drafting players with plate discipline and counting on them developing power was influenced by the rampant juicing of the times.

Urban drives a taxi.

by andeux on Dec 13, 2007 2:57 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

As I recall,

I was mocked heavily in an earlier thread for suggesting that Giambi partially screwed up several future A's drafts by causing the A's front office to think that sudden power explosions were par for the course.

I make no secret of the fact that my bitterness toward Giambi is in no small part due to this. He was a prototype, all right, but he wasn't the prototype Paul DePodesta thought he was.

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Dec 13, 2007 3:08 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The thing is

Beane had been a close friend of Lenny Dykstra, and a bench player on the McGwire/Canseco A's. Unless he's a lot stupider than we all think, he must have had at least some idea of the role that steroids played in the mid-90s power surge.

Urban drives a taxi.

by andeux on Dec 13, 2007 3:18 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

cue my other recent baseless speculation
just the right balance of dishonesty and likable qualities @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2007 3:27 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

actually, now, the more I think about it ...

... I'm going to 100% reverse my recent baseless speculation (Poppy's ISOTO nom). That could be as good a reason as any as to why Beane suddenly up and walked away from trying to compete as an on-field player and jumped into scouting -- that he just wasn't willing to do what was becoming more and more necessary for fringe players, esp. in that clubhouse.

just the right balance of dishonesty and likable qualities @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2007 3:39 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You're really leaving no stone unturned
It starts with rule No. 1 from coach Don Nelson: Shoot the ball.

by mikeA on Dec 13, 2007 3:41 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

he's just being thorough

at this point i think he's covered every possible conspiracy theory.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2007 3:42 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Beane ditched 'roiders ...

... as the first step in a complex plan to get us back on the gold standard.

just the right balance of dishonesty and likable qualities @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2007 4:00 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

True enough

Unfortunately, there's no way of knowing whether he:

a. Discounted the effect of steroids
b. Figured everyone was going to take steroids anyway, so the principle could be generalized
c. Figured if he drafted enough guys of the right type, a few of them would take steroids and succeed
d. Just plain f***ed up in assuming that Giambi was replicable

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Dec 13, 2007 4:25 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

It's definitely a theory with possibilities ...
"It's for your own good. Big strong Devo knows whats best for Poppy" -- Mossback

by devo on Dec 13, 2007 3:13 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

discounting my own theory ...

... though I still think it's valid speculation, there are a couple things (off the top of my head; likely many others) that mitigate against it:

  • Why would Beane put himself at such a strong competitive disadvantage?
  • Why, really, would Beane do it at all? Your presumptive motivations don't seem wrong to me -- just not strong enough to motivate Beane to do it without some other compelling reason(s)
  • Why would Beane have expressed such admiration for Bonds in the past, and why would Bonds be being linked by "industry sources" to a possible A's contract?
  • Wouldn't there have been whispers around the league about this, and wouldn't we have heard something about this by now if it were true?
just the right balance of dishonesty and likable qualities @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2007 3:33 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

More discounting

The list likely does not cover all the players who have taken PEDs, and likely there are a few on the list who are innocent.  

We can't be sure that Beane has shifted PED players away without knowing that
a) He knew who was taking PEDS
b) He let them go.

by MobiusKlein on Dec 13, 2007 10:18 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

does that ANer have to remain anonymous?

Do you know "OaklandA23" personally, or something?

by Cutthemullet on Dec 13, 2007 3:34 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

No

It's just that it was something mentioned in passing off-line. I don't mind spreading it as unsourced third-hand rumors, but I don't want to attach someone else's name to it without permission.

Urban drives a taxi.

by andeux on Dec 13, 2007 4:10 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

i have said the same things on AN
a few times.  
in moneyball, the a's seem to have used the sample size of jason giambi to reach the conclusion that young players with plate discipline will eventually develop power.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2007 3:50 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Right

You kinda summed up what I was getting at.  Yes, it's speculation.  And certainly, Beane was thinking self-interestedly if he did try to clean up post-2001 so he doesn't get any altruism points.

But given that past A's players are undeniably bigtime abusers, our current team could be in a WHOLE lot worse shape.  We're not sitting on bloated deals with oldtimers who made their careers off PEDs.  And I for one am glad that we might be ahead of the curve there.  

I don't see the A's marketing "Powerball" with John Jaha as its centerpiece anytime soon.  

"I'm so green and gold that I hang on every pitch, not just every game." - Lew Wolff

by BleacherDrummer on Dec 13, 2007 3:52 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Piatt

The steroids recount of Piatt, for me, really adds to the sad story that was his career in MLB. He claims he wasn't doing steroids at all when he was crushing in the minors and then after a crippling viral infection he tried them to get back in the game. This just goes to show that this is not the players' fault at all, its  MLB's fault. Players just view the PEDs as shortcuts or means of longevity to the achieving or maintaining their inherent abilities, so its hard to say they are bad people. MLB has allowed steroids to become a part of the status quo and for that the blame rests on them.  Of course, if the players union didnt have them by the balls Im sure it would have been dealt with long ago...Stupid players union.

by SwisherSweet on Dec 13, 2007 1:25 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Not the players' fault at all?

They all exercised free will, regardless of how they were influenced by the pressure of competition and the league's lack of concern for their well-being.  All parties involved are culpable -- league, owners, union and players.

"It is almost impossible to exaggerate the complete unimportance of almost everything."

by Poppy on Dec 13, 2007 1:47 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

yuppers all the way 'round
just the right balance of dishonesty and likable qualities @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2007 2:03 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

there's also the chance that Piatt lied
just the right balance of dishonesty and likable qualities @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2007 2:00 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Very surprising

to hear George Mitchell's name in the report.  As a former Senator, he should be ashamed.

Signatures? We don't need no stinking signatures.

by jubjub on Dec 13, 2007 1:38 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

That's actually Cust before he started 'roiding.

Before that he went by the name of Jairo Cust La Lanne.

"It was OK," Swisher said. "I got the shoulder down, but I didn't wrap. You gotta wrap and drive."

by LAXile on Dec 13, 2007 4:50 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I thought it was Tejada during the offseason
Signatures? We don't need no stinking signatures.

by jubjub on Dec 13, 2007 6:01 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

wow, Selig at least posturing...

that he might punish guys based on their inclusion in the report...against Mitchell's wishes.  Who wouldn't have thought, beforehand, that it would be the other way around?

by Cutthemullet on Dec 13, 2007 1:46 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

after enduring Mitchell's evasiveness...

Selig might not be all that bright, but at least he's being more forthright here...once again, situation opposite from what I expected.

by Cutthemullet on Dec 13, 2007 1:51 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

who would have thought the better liar

was the used car salesman

Signatures? We don't need no stinking signatures.

by jubjub on Dec 13, 2007 1:57 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

heh

I don't think Mitchell was lying, just...choosing his words far too carefully, especially for the press conference.

by Cutthemullet on Dec 13, 2007 2:01 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

So who will be the first on AN...

to read the entire report?  Free sample of HGH for the winner.

by Cutthemullet on Dec 13, 2007 1:55 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

how do we know you haven't already?
just the right balance of dishonesty and likable qualities @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2007 2:03 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'll do it

But I would rather have a sample of Enzyte.  My GF would agree.

by ozzman99 on Dec 13, 2007 2:04 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

well, then

mikeA might be the person to ask there (reference to another thread, lol).  Separate division of the contest, right here.

by Cutthemullet on Dec 13, 2007 2:09 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

lol

You'll inexplicably dominate your next softball game (if you haven't retired yet).

by Cutthemullet on Dec 13, 2007 2:05 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

heh

Best of luck, and beware carpal tunnel

by Cutthemullet on Dec 13, 2007 2:15 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I had that problem

after too much rosterbation.

Urban drives a taxi.

by andeux on Dec 13, 2007 2:32 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Great rotoworld quip

SI.com also says Brian Roberts is there, as are former Yankees Mike Stanton, Jason Grimsley and Chuck Knoblauch. Apparently, steroids don't help you throw to first base.

Link

by Henduland in Texas on Dec 13, 2007 2:00 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Pretty interesting hindsight read.

Link

My favorite quote:

The reason why my velocity continues to be what it is (is) because of what we're doing behind the scenes.

It's Rhodes Scholar Night at the Coliseum tonight.

by Scottbass on Dec 13, 2007 2:12 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Clemens is doing Mel Stottlemyre

behind the scenes?

"BTW, this is ridiculous..." -- devo

by oblique on Dec 13, 2007 3:45 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Ewwwwww
"Evidently, a large number of people said, 'We really need more vermin at the ballpark, Artie.'" - Nick, 10/7/07

by doctorK on Dec 13, 2007 3:46 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

for those who have read this

-is there a connection between clemens and canseco (through the trainer)?

-so sabean was told by stan conte that there was a steroids distributer (greg anderson) in the clubhouse and sabean didn't pass the information along to MLB or his superiors in the giants organization?

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2007 4:23 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

More than anybody else...

Sabean comes across in the report as the front office person most anxious to look the other way.  When Stan Conte came to Sabean with concerns the response was mostly along the lines of "deal with it yourself, Stan".  See pages 121-127 of the report (pages 169-175 of the PDF file).

by Soaker on Dec 13, 2007 4:38 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

ok thanks

time to check out what they're saying about this over on mccoveychronicles...

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2007 4:52 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

LOL

(Stan) Conte asked (Greg) Anderson for a resume during spring training.  In response, Anderson supplied a one-page document indicating that Anderson had graduated from high school and that everything else was “pending.”

"It is almost impossible to exaggerate the complete unimportance of almost everything."

by Poppy on Dec 13, 2007 5:58 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I just wasn't terribly impressed

with Sabean's responses to Conte.  It's probably worth pasting some extended quotes here (all from pages 121-127):

During spring training, Conte met with Giants general manager Brian Sabean to express his concerns about the presence of Anderson and Shields in the clubhouse, weight room, and other restricted areas.  Conte felt strongly that personal trainers should not have such access, particularly where, as here, he viewed the trainers to be unqualified. Sabean told Conte that if Conte objected to Anderson and Shields being in the clubhouse, Conte should order them out himself.  Conte said he would do this if Sabean would support him when Bonds complained, which Conte believed would be the result of his actions. Sabean did not respond to this request for support, leading Conte to believe that Sabean would not do so if Bonds protested.  Conte therefore decided to take no action to deny Anderson or Shields access to restricted areas.

In August 2002, the Giants were visiting Atlanta for a series with the Braves.  At the time, Anderson was traveling with the Giants.  Conte recalls that during this series a Giants player asked Conte about anabolic steroids.  Conte refused to identify the player to us, citing athletic trainer privilege.  According to Conte, the player told him that he was considering obtaining steroids from Greg Anderson and wanted to know the health issues associated with the use of steroids.  In response, Conte explained at some length the health hazards of steroid use and lectured the player about the unfairness to other players posed by the illicit use of steroids. Conte believed that it was "a good lecture" and that he put considerable doubt in the player’s mind.

Conte stated that he reported the incident to general manager Brian Sabean within an hour of its occurrence.  He told Sabean he was concerned that Anderson might be distributing steroids to Giants players.  While he refused to identify the player who had approached him, Conte otherwise described the conversation to Sabean in detail.  Sabean suggested Conte confront Anderson and Bonds about the matter, which Conte refused to do.  In Conte’s view, it was not the responsibility of the athletic trainer to address such an issue.

Sabean confirmed in his interview that Conte’s recollection of their conversation was accurate.  He also acknowledged that he did not raise the issue with Bonds or Anderson.  Instead, he asked Conte if he knew anyone who could "check out" Anderson.  Conte said that he knew a Drug Enforcement Administration agent, and Sabean suggested Conte call the agent to check into Anderson.  The DEA agent later told Conte that he did not find any information about Anderson.  Conte relayed this to Sabean.

Sabean told me that he believed that if Anderson was in fact selling drugs illegally the government would have known about it.  So when he received the report from Conte, Sabean did not report the issue to anyone in the Giants organization or the Commissioner’s Office, he did not confront Bonds or Anderson, and he did not take any steps to prohibit Anderson from gaining access to Giants facilities.  Sabean said that he was not aware at the time of the Major League Baseball policy that required him to report information regarding a player’s drug use to the Commissioner’s Office.

Sabean explained that he was in a very difficult situation regarding disclosure of this information because, as a result of the clubhouse culture in baseball, he felt he could not risk "outing" Conte as the source of the information.  He said that if he had insisted on Anderson’s ouster from the clubhouse, Bonds would have vigorously objected, just as he did when the Giants tried to bar Harvey Shields in response to the later (February 2004) mandate from the Commissioner’s Office barring personal trainers from restricted areas.

In September 2003, published reports revealed that a search warrant was executed on Anderson’s residence in connection with the BALCO investigation and that Anderson was under investigation for the alleged distribution of anabolic steroids.  Even after he became aware of this event, Sabean did not inform anyone in the Commissioner’s Office or within the Giants organization of his earlier conversation with Conte about Anderson.

Peter Magowan, the Giants’ managing partner and chief executive officer, recalled asking Sabean directly whether the Giants "had a problem" after reading the news reports of the BALCO raids.  Magowan said that what he meant by his inquiry was to ask whether the Giants had a problem with Anderson dispensing steroids; he wanted to know whether Sabean had any reason to know of such a problem.  According to Magowan, Sabean responded that he was not aware of any problem the Giants might have.  However, Sabean strongly denied that such a conversation occurred.

by Soaker on Dec 13, 2007 6:32 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

LOL. My favorite part:

Sabean told me that he believed that if Anderson was in fact selling drugs illegally the government would have known about it.

Isn't a big part of doing something illegal, y'know, keeping the feds from knowing about it?

"This must be heaven," he says.
"No. It's Oakland."

by Kyli on Dec 13, 2007 6:43 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

sabean doesn't look so good; magowan looks worse

Magowan's already on Bud's shitlist -- I wonder if this ultimately ends up with MLB coming up with a pretext to yank SF's territorial rights to San Jose?

just the right balance of dishonesty and likable qualities @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2007 6:55 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I think that's where you get dibs

on the woman at the stairmaster.

It starts with rule No. 1 from coach Don Nelson: Shoot the ball.

by mikeA on Dec 13, 2007 7:11 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Dibs?

Maybe if you're Larry Davis.

just the right balance of dishonesty and likable qualities @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2007 7:32 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

On Clemens-Canseco

it sounds like Canseco was the player who piqued Clemens' interest and then Clemens developed the relationship with McNamee on his own.  The Clemens-McNamee discussion is on pages 167-175 of the report (PDF pages 215-223).

by Soaker on Dec 13, 2007 4:47 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

LOL at this 'shop from Fark

"Evidently, a large number of people said, 'We really need more vermin at the ballpark, Artie.'" - Nick, 10/7/07

by doctorK on Dec 13, 2007 5:10 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Win.
"This must be heaven," he says.
"No. It's Oakland."

by Kyli on Dec 13, 2007 6:43 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

From ESPN:

Teams with the most current/former players named in the Mitchell report:

Team Total
Yankees 22
Orioles 18
Angels 16
Mets 15
Dodgers 15
Rangers 15

by ST on Dec 13, 2007 6:48 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

p.s.

ESPN has a good summary and page guide on each player mentioned for easier referencing:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/s...

by ST on Dec 13, 2007 7:00 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

There were too few surprises,

The report lacked zing. It left me feeling a little numb. But I was sorry to see Cust outted.  I can hardly wait for baseball season to start. I enjoy watching the PED Heads. That's my reaction.

by IM4Oakgal on Dec 13, 2007 9:10 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Black Friday... The Silence is Deafening

Let's see if I have this right...

I was just accused of taking PED's, so it's in my best interest to not say a word.

If I'm accused of anything, I'm on the rooftops proclaiming my innocence.  

Remember when Todd Helton was accused of being on Steroids????  He went on the Jim Rome Show ASAP to tell the world he wasn't on them... And you know what?  I believe him.

The Silence (...And Lawyer Speak) is Deafening!

by Colorado Fan on Dec 14, 2007 9:24 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Sham

I refuse to credit any report on steroid use over the past 20 years that does not include the name Bret Boone. I pictured Bret and Aaron sitting anxiously in front of their computer with a bottle of Dom P which they proceeded to pop and guzzle after perusing the report and realizing that their names (amazingly, impossibly, incredibly) were nowhere within.

What's the point of attaching a number to everything you do? If your numbers go up, you're having more fun.

by AlwaysSweatin on Dec 14, 2007 2:15 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Again,

The Mitchell report doesn't pretend to be a complete list.  Of course Boone was using.

"Ten times thy self were better than ten Hattebergs" -- Monkeyball, channeling Shakespeare

by iglew on Dec 14, 2007 5:58 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

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