Mitchell Report - Open Thread
Let's have a diary to talk about the Mitchell Report as names are released today.
The first big name to come out - Roger Clemens. If Bonds is going to burn in hell for steroid use, I hope there's a chair next to him for Clemens.
It's not really shocking when you think about how dominant he has been into old age, but still that's got to be the biggest surprise in there.
UPDATE: The list (bold=A's connection)
http://cbs2chicago.com/national/Mitchell.report.baseball.2.609138.html#playerlist
Chad Allen
Rick Ankiel
David Bell
Mike Bell
Marvin Benard
Gary Bennett, Jr.
Larry Bigbie
Barry Bonds
Kevin Brown
Paul Byrd
Jose Canseco
Mark Carreon
Jason Christiansen
Howie Clark
Roger Clemens
Jack Cust
Brendan Donnelly
Chris Donnels
Lenny Dykstra
Bobby Estalella
Matt Franco
Ryan Franklin
Eric Gagne
Jason Giambi
Jeremy Giambi
Jay Gibbons
Troy Glaus
Jason Grimsley
Jose Guillen
Jerry Hairston, Jr.
Matt Herges
Phil Hiatt
Glenallen Hill
Darren Holmes
Todd Hundley
David Justice
Chuck Knoblauch
Tim Laker
Mike Lansing
Paul Lo Duca
Exavier "Nook" Logan
Josias Manzanillo
Gary Matthews, Jr.
Mark McGwire
Cody McKay
Kent Mercker
Bart Miadich
Hal Morris
Daniel Naulty
Denny Neagle
Rafael Palmeiro
Jim Parque
Andy Pettitte
Adam Piatt
Todd Pratt
Adam Riggs
Brian Roberts
John Rocker
F.P. Santangelo
Benito Santiago
Scott Schoeneweis
David Segui
Gary Sheffield
Miguel Tejada
Ismael Valdez
Mo Vaughn
Randy Velarde
Ron Villone
Fernando Vina
Rondell White
Jeff Williams
Matt Williams
Todd Williams
Steve Woodard
Kevin Young
Gregg Zaun
0 recs |
439 comments
Comments
"Let's have ***A*** diary" about the report?
Hell, let's have one for each player named!
by Poppy on Dec 13, 2007 7:28 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
could have just made it a weak DLD
by jubjub on Dec 13, 2007 7:31 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
LOL!
No. A Mitchell-Report-Being-Released open thread is a great idea. One-stop shopping. But I bet there will be a lot of superfluous diaries today, about individual named players.
by Poppy on Dec 13, 2007 7:39 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow.
I need to go back to bed... I was trying to figure out the what *** in "***A***" meant.
by Jennifer on Dec 13, 2007 7:46 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Christ, what an asterisk hole
by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2007 9:14 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ugh.
I'm dreading this. I might need to be placed on suicide watch.
by Jennifer on Dec 13, 2007 7:44 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
REPORT: Jennifer on verge of being named in
Mitchell Report.
by salb918 on Dec 13, 2007 7:46 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Placido Polanco has to be on the list.
by Poppy on Dec 13, 2007 8:08 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Placido Domingo too
by kaweahkaweah on Dec 13, 2007 9:52 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
From jub's link:
"It's going to be a rough day in the Bronx," the paper quoted the source as saying.
Baseball commissioner Bud Selig told the Chicago Tribune that he hadn't seen the report, but he was proud it is coming out.
"People can say Bud was just trying to cover his butt or take care of his legacy or whatever," Selig said, according to the Tribune. "I say [bleep] it. This needed to be done, and now we've done it. I'm just happy it will be out there and we can move on. I'm proud of it."
by salb918 on Dec 13, 2007 7:48 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
so a report written by a Red Sox board member
is going to be harsh on the Yankees. Can't wait.
Since Theo just had a kid yesterday, maybe Hank Steinbrenner will accuse him of "performance enhancing drugs".
by jubjub on Dec 13, 2007 7:51 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
jubjub...
If you intended this as an open thread, would you mind editing the diary title so it's not Clemens-specific? I really think the "Clemens named" part of the title is going to invite a lot of people to post separate diaries for each notable player they hear about... and that's going to get ridiculous pretty fast... :\
by Poppy on Dec 13, 2007 8:14 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
it was a silly marketing trick
to get people to click on the thread, but the Clemens part has been redacted
by jubjub on Dec 13, 2007 8:18 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for not calling me a diary fascist. ;)
by Poppy on Dec 13, 2007 8:20 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
diary fascist!
;)
by flipgatey3 on Dec 13, 2007 8:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Diary Fashionist
<eom>
by louismg on Dec 13, 2007 8:26 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Dairy fascist!
by JediLeroy on Dec 13, 2007 10:07 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Dairy fascicle!
by JediLeroy on Dec 13, 2007 10:14 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
fairy Daschle!
by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2007 10:41 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
JUMP, jubjub!
;)
by Jennifer on Dec 13, 2007 8:25 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
how high?
by jubjub on Dec 13, 2007 8:27 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Can iguanas jump?
by Poppy on Dec 13, 2007 8:30 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
no but jubjub birds can fly
but only when in a fashion
by jubjub on Dec 13, 2007 8:31 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm morbidly looking forward to this.
I want NAMES, people! Big ones. I want McGwire and Sosa and Pudge and Palmeiro, Giambi and Gonzalez... I want Clemens and all the evil empire to be hit with a stench. Then, I want there to be consequences.
(And I want no current A's to be affected)
by louismg on Dec 13, 2007 8:26 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
the best name that could possibly be in there?
HANK AARON
It would instaneously render the entire discussion of who should or shouldn't be held accountable moot since even the "old guys" did it.
Of course, he won't be in there, but it would make it a fun Thursday.
by jubjub on Dec 13, 2007 8:30 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
anyone know what the "red sludge" was?
That was the nickname for some "vitamin/drug cocktail reportedly used widely by MLB players before the steroid era, along with uppers and other stimulants including even cocaine. Some have speculated that many players were quite skinny because their systems were constantly stimulated artificially. I don't know anything about that, although it wouldn't surprise me that many pro athletes might do something like that if they thought it might give them an edge during the long baseball season.
Anyway, I read somewhere that Aaron also took the red sludge. Totally unsubstantiated, of course, but you never know.
by OaklandSi on Dec 13, 2007 8:39 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
There's one pitcher I've always wondered about...
I've never seen the name mentioned, but there are a few things that have made me wonder...he suddenly added about 3-4 mph to his fastball, he had some teammates who have been named previously, he's had a number of physical problems in the last few years. If this guy is named today, it would not surprise me. (But I'll be glad if this name does not come up.)
by Soaker on Dec 13, 2007 9:03 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't be an ass
Lenny DiNardo doesn't deserve this.
by BlameChannel53 on Dec 13, 2007 9:33 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
that could be
absolutely anyone. that could be me, even though i'm a centerfielder.
by flipgatey3 on Dec 13, 2007 9:38 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I assume you mean one J. Richard Harden
It's certainly quite possible-- he fits the profile to a T.
by PaulThomas on Dec 13, 2007 9:41 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Could be Ted Lilly, too.
by salb918 on Dec 13, 2007 9:45 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
ooh, ooh, does the one who guesses correctly 1st
win anything?
by F171615 on Dec 13, 2007 9:43 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
my guess,
Mark Mulder
by F171615 on Dec 13, 2007 9:43 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He did have medically directed steroid treatment
for his hip injury... maybe something extra? Hope not.
by Poppy on Dec 13, 2007 9:45 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Thats what i though too
Mulder. What about Hudson? We know Zito didn't because he can't throw faster than 89 mph.
by micdog2001 on Dec 13, 2007 10:44 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
But it's up from 85-86! ;)
by Poppy on Dec 13, 2007 10:46 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I go to the laundromat...
and come back to find that I started a contest. I did not name the player because it was meaningless speculation on my part based on my own prejudices. But F171615 has correctly named the player I had in mind.
by Soaker on Dec 13, 2007 11:28 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Mitchell as Kent Brockman
Mitchell: Now, over the years, a senator learns a number of things that for one reason or another, he just cannot report. It doesn't seem to matter now, so...the following people are gay did steroids.
Jennifer: Turn it off!
HollywoodOz: Just a second...
by salb918 on Dec 13, 2007 8:39 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Big Props for this Sal
I remember that scene verbatim. The SNPP link makes this a QOTM candidate.
by louismg on Dec 13, 2007 10:48 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well done, sir, well done ...
by devo on Dec 13, 2007 11:49 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
News conferences
Link to where conferences will be -- George Mitchell at 11:00 a.m. Pacific time, and Bud Selig at 1:30 p.m. Pacific.
by Poppy on Dec 13, 2007 8:57 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Names according to WNBC
Brady Anderson, Manny Alexander, Rick Ankiel, Jeff Bagwell, Barry Bonds, Aaron Boone, Rafaeil Bettancourt, Bret Boone, Milton Bradley, David Bell, Dante Bichette, Albert Belle, Paul Byrd, Wil Cordero, Ken Caminiti, Mike Cameron, Ramon Castro, Jose and Ozzie Canseco, Roger Clemens, Paxton Crawford, Wilson Delgado, Lenn y Dykstra, Johnny Damon, Carl Everett, Kyle Farnsoworth, Ryan Franklin, Troy Glaus, Rich Garces, Jason Grimsley, Troy Glaus, Juan Gonzalez, Eric Gagne, Nomar Garciaparra, Jason Giambi, Jeremy Giambi, Jose Guillen, Jay Gibbons, Juan Gonzalez, Clay Hensley, Jerry Hairston, Felix Heredia, Jr., Darren Holmes, Wally Joyner, Darryl Kile, Matt Lawton, Raul Mondesi, Mark McGwire, Guillermo Mota, Robert Machado, Damian Moss, Abraham Nunez, Trot Nixon, Jose Offerman, Andy Pettitte, Mark Prior, Neifi Perez, Rafael Palmiero, Albert Pujols, Brian Roberts, Juan Rincon, John Rocker, Pudge Rodriguez, Sammy Sosa, Scott Sc hoenweiis, David Segui, Alex Sanchez, Gary Sheffield, Miguel Tejada, Julian Tavarez, Fernando Tatis, Maurice Vaughn, Jason Varitek, Ismael Valdez, Matt Williams and Kerry Wood.
by athleticsBB4life on Dec 13, 2007 9:06 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
"expected to be named"
by Poppy on Dec 13, 2007 9:08 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
An inside source
already said that list is not entirely correct. Bradley....Hahaha
by OaktownPower on Dec 13, 2007 9:11 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Bradley?
With his mild mannered disposition?
I'm SHOCKED!
by kaweahkaweah on Dec 13, 2007 9:51 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Bradley seems like the kind of player
who would not do steroids.
by salb918 on Dec 13, 2007 9:55 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Check that.
Bradley's personality - such that we've seen in media reports - leads me to believe that he's a pretty principled fellow. But that's just me, and that's just a guess from reading the media tea leaves.
by salb918 on Dec 13, 2007 9:56 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Bagwell and The Farns? Nooooo.
Actually, seeing Tejada and Pujols expected to be named makes me the saddest. :-(
"No. It's Oakland."
by Kyli on Dec 13, 2007 9:14 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Lenn y Dykstra?!?
Not both of them!
by salb918 on Dec 13, 2007 9:16 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
¡No!
by Jennifer on Dec 13, 2007 9:20 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
iPod!
by Poppy on Dec 13, 2007 9:21 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That's how I read it, too.
by salb918 on Dec 13, 2007 9:27 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
not lenny!
by guy incognito on Dec 13, 2007 9:34 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Worse yet:
BOTH Troy Glauses are on there!
by JediLeroy on Dec 13, 2007 10:11 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Prior and Wood
Steroids and Dusty Baker = worst possible combination for long-term arm health
by doctorK on Dec 13, 2007 9:20 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Really, just
"and Dusty Baker" is enough.
"No. It's Oakland."
by Kyli on Dec 13, 2007 9:29 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Neifi Perez
if Neifi weren't using, then Bobby Crosby would be producing at the Neifi Perez line.
by F171615 on Dec 13, 2007 9:44 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Jason Varitek
No, not the Captain!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
by Colorado Fan on Dec 13, 2007 9:44 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And of course his name wasnt on there...
Guess no more haha.
by OaktownPower on Dec 13, 2007 3:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Mitchell
by Colorado Fan on Dec 14, 2007 9:32 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
so, no current A's?
by ArakSOT on Dec 13, 2007 10:06 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Troy glaus used so many
they named him twice!
by 5Aces on Dec 13, 2007 10:13 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Nomar
For years he went to great pains to deny use.
Ha!
by kaweahkaweah on Dec 13, 2007 10:55 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
John Rocker: there's a non-surprise.
I kind of assume he's living under a bridge, swinging a club and demanding people passing overhead pay a toll.
That guy was one massive roid rage episode.
by Ozzz on Dec 13, 2007 11:28 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Here's the list..Pujols, Damon, Sheffield, etc.
by hillofbeanes on Dec 13, 2007 9:06 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
"expected to be named"
by Poppy on Dec 13, 2007 9:08 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, they pulled that page already.
Lawsuit come a-flyin?
by salb918 on Dec 13, 2007 9:17 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I love conspiracy theories!
So we already had Billy's meeting in Arizona and Tejada's trade happening before the report goes public.
Now A-Rod finalized his deal this AM.
Intersting timing.
Could it be he's named?
My money is on attention whoring, but it makes for a great theory.
by whyareyou on Dec 13, 2007 9:09 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
The anticipation is like a screwed-up Christmas.
I can't believe I'm so eager for this!
"No. It's Oakland."
by Kyli on Dec 13, 2007 9:13 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Now, don't start peeking...
Don't shake any of those boxes Guillen stashed at the Coliseum...
by Poppy on Dec 13, 2007 9:15 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
me too!
I need a bowl of popcorn or something.....
by gigglingone on Dec 13, 2007 9:21 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Does it make me a bad person
that I am setting my day up to take an early lunch so I can watch the 11am conference live?
by 5Aces on Dec 13, 2007 9:52 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I was just wondering
if LaVal's would have it on their big screen TV....
by gigglingone on Dec 13, 2007 10:09 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I want to distract my boss
so I can run down there and find out...
"No. It's Oakland."
by Kyli on Dec 13, 2007 11:35 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Neifi Perez...NO!
Brett Boone!?!?
NOOOOOOOOO!!!
by McFood on Dec 13, 2007 9:19 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Every GG 2nd baseman since 2001 will be named.
Book it.
by Poppy on Dec 13, 2007 9:23 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Phew. Ellis is safe.
by salb918 on Dec 13, 2007 9:27 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
that was some comeback from shoulder injury, tho
by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2007 9:34 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
injections via unicorn are perfectly legal.
and magical.
by rebus on Dec 13, 2007 9:36 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
anyone watching espn2 right now?
they're talking to john kerry (about the cable thing from the spring) and he just called MLB "the national baseball league". is that the league manny ortez plays in?
by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2007 9:32 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
In touch with the common man, I see.
by salb918 on Dec 13, 2007 9:38 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe he was talking about
by JediLeroy on Dec 13, 2007 10:17 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
*gasp*
sfgate headline: Batboy key to report
Batboy?!

by Poppy on Dec 13, 2007 9:39 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
how does a batboy key report?
I mean really, it's a key.
by gigglingone on Dec 13, 2007 9:42 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
can anyone help xbhaskarx?
The batboy key fell off his laptop.
by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2007 9:44 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
a a a, very funny
by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2007 9:46 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Just so long as batgirl is still clean
by FreeSeatUpgrade on Dec 13, 2007 1:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Clean, and Clear
by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2007 1:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well... your seat wasn't downwind from hers...
by Poppy on Dec 13, 2007 1:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ah, lunch.
I am eating a mushroom and cambozola sandwich and some kind of Italian bread.
What about you?
by salb918 on Dec 13, 2007 9:59 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
A small child.
by Jennifer on Dec 13, 2007 10:01 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
are you a hamster?
by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2007 10:10 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not going to eat lunch today.
Lunchtime is 11:00. I don't want to leave my desk.
by Poppy on Dec 13, 2007 10:03 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm eating my lunch now
I know it's 10 am, but I couldn't wait.
by OaklandSi on Dec 13, 2007 10:05 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
We have our annual holiday luncheon today
Sometime during the meal, this one guy will stand up and "sing" the worst imaginable rendition of "O Holy Night". Every year he gets worse and worse. I hate this time of year.
by doctorK on Dec 13, 2007 10:05 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
anyone have any spare puppies?
i'm hungry
by F171615 on Dec 13, 2007 10:07 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hot wings and cheese fries
place down the street opens at 11. I'll make my way as doors open, drive like hell back to my desk.
by 5Aces on Dec 13, 2007 10:10 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Tejada and Pujols
Considering Jose Canseco appears to have been quite accurate in his book, I'm not surprised Tejada's listed on that supposed list. I'd say when the real list comes out I'd be shocked if he WASN'T on the list.
As for Pujols, he has the same trainer as Jason Grimsley and was mentioned in the discussions after Grimsley confessed everything he knew to the feds when he was with the Diamondbacks.
by Fooch on Dec 13, 2007 10:09 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
as far as the poll is concerned
I think either everyone who is proven to have used PEDs should be banned, or nobody should.
by OaklandSi on Dec 13, 2007 10:13 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
MLB can use my bAnNiNg wand.
by Jennifer on Dec 13, 2007 10:15 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think it really depends ont he situation
Wally Joyner admitted a year or two ago, on his own, that he used roids once then flushed the rest down the toilet. Not that he is a HOFer, but I think it would be hard to argue that his level of cheating should cause him to be banished from the HOF.
by kaweahkaweah on Dec 13, 2007 10:18 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Wally Joyner always struck me as a real life
Ned Flanders
by jubjub on Dec 13, 2007 10:30 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Carl Pohlad would be Mr. Burns
by kaweahkaweah on Dec 13, 2007 10:36 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Ehhhhhh-xcellent
by doctorK on Dec 13, 2007 10:38 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
so does the price tag for bonds go up?
now he's just one out of of 50-60 names.
and can they keep bonds out of the hall of fame if they let clemens in? i say keep them both out, the best hitter and pitcher of our time, they are the perfect representatives for this disgraceful era.
by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2007 10:23 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
How about if they're inducted,
but we get to brand them with asterisks?
by Poppy on Dec 13, 2007 10:25 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
can we shoot them into outer space?
by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2007 10:38 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No.
Then they'll just be using space junk.
by Ozzz on Dec 13, 2007 11:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
But at least
the space junk will get smaller.
by 5Aces on Dec 13, 2007 11:31 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sadly apt
I'm in the process of moving -- I'm going to be housesitting for friends of mine who are A's fans of many years' standing. So I'm here this morning getting the cable hooked up so I can watch ESPN and participate in this thread, I go into the kitchen to look for a glass that I can use to water the house plants while I'm waiting, and what's the first thing I find in the cupboard? A plastic A's cup with pictures of McGwire and Canseco and the slogan BE THERE WHEN IT HAPPENS AGAIN.
by Englishmajor on Dec 13, 2007 10:26 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Step 1: take a black marker
Step 2: draw hypodermic needles sticking in their behinds
Step 3: return cup to the cupboard
Step 4: wait 6-9 months for reaction
by jubjub on Dec 13, 2007 10:36 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not to be a downer/hater
but I always had some reservations about Mark Mulder. After going buco innings for several consecutive years and dpminating, he suddenly fell apart. Surgeries aside, I just have a sneaking suspicion that he stopped using and his body began to respond negatively. Sorry, I love Mark Mulder and I'm not trying to smear his name, I just wanted to get that off my chest. I hope all the current A's are clean.
"Sir Milton Bradley is no longer family."
by mrod on Dec 13, 2007 10:39 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
And probably "beaucoups".
by Poppy on Dec 13, 2007 10:40 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Socialiste National De Grammaire
by doctorK on Dec 13, 2007 10:44 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
but without the "s"
LOL
Never mind.
by Poppy on Dec 13, 2007 10:42 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
no, I think that was supposed to be "balco"
by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2007 10:43 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I've been hinting/hypothesizing for several years
... that I had a suspicion that Beane's been working to clean out the organization of PEDs more aggressively than MLB, and that the injuries have been part and parcel of that effort. Which theory would go a long way toward explaining why Beane never quite fully addresses the injury issue.
by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2007 10:47 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
perhaps a topic at the meeting as well?
by rebus on Dec 13, 2007 10:54 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Seems like a real possibility
given the moves he's made and some of the folks who had a short stay.
There's definitely a practicality given to it that I could see Beane going for, given the increased scrutiny of players and the likelyhood of dropping trade value for some guys upon discovery.
Could all be coincidence, but it's certainly something I could see. I mean, he cleaned out the booze for awhile, the PEDs seem like another step. :)
"No. It's Oakland."
by Kyli on Dec 13, 2007 11:40 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
this is possibly
just as good a source of entertainment as the free agent market
by maffew on Dec 13, 2007 10:42 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
selig:
"I [commissioned the report] when everybody was telling me not to," Selig said Wednesday from his office in Milwaukee. "The union absolutely hated it. My own staff didn't like it. Nobody wanted to do it" .. .. "I haven't seen the report yet, but I'm proud I did it," Selig said. "People can say Bud was just trying to cover his butt or take care of his legacy or whatever. I say [bleep] it. This needed to be done, and now we've done it. I'm just happy it will be out there and we can move on. I'm proud of it."
by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2007 10:43 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
What a phony!
Selig is the biggest fraud since snake oil salesmen.........Jackass!
by mrod on Dec 13, 2007 10:45 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, no shit!
Hypocrite!
by kaweahkaweah on Dec 13, 2007 10:50 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
hopefully mitchell comes down hard on selig
in the report. selig, owners, the players union, they all deserve it as much as the players.
by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2007 10:52 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yep, couldn't agree more
The all allowed it to happen or even encouraged it.
by kaweahkaweah on Dec 13, 2007 10:54 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, Bud.
I'm so turned on right now by your clarity and decisiveness.
by Poppy on Dec 13, 2007 10:45 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Bud actually used bad language?
I would have thought he'd say (consarn) it.
by Englishmajor on Dec 13, 2007 10:47 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He's working on his street cred
by BlameChannel53 on Dec 13, 2007 10:50 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
whoa, jose canseco
is at the mitchell report press conference......
by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2007 10:46 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
what channel are you watching?
by pickinmachine on Dec 13, 2007 10:47 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
they just showed him on espn
before going to commercials.
by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2007 10:48 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Did that "legal analyst"
that was just on, refer to Jason Grimsley, as Jason Priestly? Lol
by pickinmachine on Dec 13, 2007 10:56 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
but where's Ozzie?
Is there a Hooters nearby?
by jubjub on Dec 13, 2007 10:58 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
that's pretty funny
My favorite part of his book was always that he/they put his career stats on the cover.
by mikeA on Dec 13, 2007 10:52 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I am now going to peel a tangerine
and try to center myself.
by Poppy on Dec 13, 2007 10:54 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
wait, what's the connection between
clemens, the yankees trainer, and JOSE CANSECO??
by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2007 10:56 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Roger Kossack on ESPN
just said that Jason Priestley was among the players under investigation. The anchor immediately said "Jason Grimsley?" but Kossack kept on talking.
by Englishmajor on Dec 13, 2007 10:57 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
yeah that was hilarious
by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2007 10:58 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
if the Hall keeps Priestley out ...
... but not Luke Perry, then it loses all credibility.
by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2007 11:11 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
photos of personal checks
lo duca, tejada, segui, rondell white...
by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2007 10:57 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Can we watch this online.
I think someone gave a link... but I have ADD and can't find it now.
by Jennifer on Dec 13, 2007 10:58 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
there's a "watch" link on ESPN
http://sports-ak.espn.go.com/mlb/index
but I can't get the media player to launch :(
by Poppy on Dec 13, 2007 11:00 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
tried, but got like 2 words over the course of
five minutes
by jubjub on Dec 13, 2007 11:06 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Actually, go to MLB.com main page
if you haven't already done so on your own...
by Poppy on Dec 13, 2007 11:06 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
*******CUST named in report
by athleticsBB4life on Dec 13, 2007 10:59 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
link?
by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2007 10:59 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No link.....WFAN radio in NY
by athleticsBB4life on Dec 13, 2007 11:00 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Poppy, put the confetti down.
by Jennifer on Dec 13, 2007 10:59 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Full text is in main story
I copied into Blez' lead article.
by louismg on Dec 13, 2007 11:17 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
......boring.....
by pickinmachine on Dec 13, 2007 11:00 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Full report PDF at ESPN
by Englishmajor on Dec 13, 2007 11:00 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Jack Cust
Jack Cust is an outfielder who began his major league career with the Arizona
Diamondbacks in 2001. Since then, he has played for five teams in Major League Baseball, the
Diamondbacks, Colorado Rockies, Baltimore Orioles, San Diego Padres, and Oakland Athletics.
In 2007, he played with Oakland.
At the beginning of the 2003 season, Cust and Larry Bigbie were both playing for
Baltimore’s class AAA affiliate in Ottawa. Bigbie’s locker was next to Cust’s. Cust eventually
asked Bigbie if he had ever tried steroids. Bigbie acknowledged he had, and Cust said that he,
too, had tried steroids. Cust told Bigbie that he had a source who could procure anything he
wanted, but Bigbie informed him he already had a friend who could supply him.
In order to provide Cust with information about these allegations and to give him
an opportunity to respond, I asked him to meet with me; he declined.
by pickinmachine on Dec 13, 2007 11:02 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Is that all they could come up with it?
Totally, totally lame.
by salb918 on Dec 13, 2007 11:06 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not very surprising
Honestly, I don't see how anyone could put themselves in his position at that point (a fringey guy trying to make the bigs via raw power), with everything that was going on, and not feel at least a strong inclination toward doping.
It's sad, but I don't see how you can really condemn him for it.
by PaulThomas on Dec 13, 2007 11:16 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
this is why it's tough to listen to those
at least to me, who have the holier-than-thou attitude about it. yes, it's illegal, but ultimately it's the player's choice. in junior college, countless teammates who were on the cusp of getting drafted decided to juice, and i would have to say that it helped them. so many people have no idea what it's like to be pressured like that. i'm a guy who isn't very imposing, but i have tools that translate to playing D1 ball, and i made it there. a friend of mine went to another high school while i was at amador valley. i had a far better high school career than him, but he was two inches taller and played the infield. we then went to the same college and he (allegedly...haha) did steroids, got drafted by the a's last year, then the mets this year, cycled again this summer, and now is playing for a prominent college down south, while i was forced to move my entire life to indiana and walk on. i understand why he did it, and i know it wasn't for me...but i can't help but wonder.
by flipgatey3 on Dec 13, 2007 4:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
+1
by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2007 4:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Im frantically...
using the "find" key and searching for A's
by pickinmachine on Dec 13, 2007 11:04 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
thanks, keep us updated
by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2007 11:05 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
David Justice - former A
by jubjub on Dec 13, 2007 11:09 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
really?
by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2007 11:10 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Justice
by pickinmachine on Dec 13, 2007 11:11 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
hey man
I called that someone off your "other" list would be in the report, did I not?
by Cutthemullet on Dec 13, 2007 1:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Cody McKay
and Adam Piatt
by jubjub on Dec 13, 2007 11:10 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Adam Piatt supplied Tejada
p. 201
by kaweahkaweah on Dec 13, 2007 11:08 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
...There is something bizarre
about this.
"No. It's Oakland."
by Kyli on Dec 13, 2007 11:45 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
online
jennifer and others, someone just told me it's at "cbs sports" (cbssportsline.com?), so try that.
by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2007 11:08 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Adam Piatt
Adam Piatt played as an outfielder with two teams in Major League Baseball for
portions of four seasons between 2000 and 2003, the Oakland Athletics and Tampa Bay Devil
Rays. In 1999, he was the Oakland Athletics’ Minor League Player of the Year.
After Radomski’s guilty plea was publicly announced, Piatt’s lawyer contacted
us. We later interviewed Piatt, who voluntarily admitted his use of performance enhancing
substances. He accepted full responsibility for his actions and said that he had learned an
important life lesson as a result. Piatt should be commended for his candor, for his willingness
to admit that he made a mistake, and for accepting responsibility for his actions.
Piatt was called up to Oakland from the minor leagues in 2000. He said that he
knew nothing at that time about steroids or amphetamines. In 2001, Piatt contracted a viral
infection and lost 24 pounds in ten days. This illness affected his strength and caused extreme
200
stress. He tried to come back to play baseball in August, but he was unsuccessful. Piatt said that
he worked hard during the off-season to be physically prepared for 2002. During 2002, he
started considering using human growth hormone. He researched the subject extensively that
year.
Piatt recalled that he learned of Kirk Radomski through F.P. Santangelo.
Santangelo and Piatt were teammates on the Oakland Athletics and on Oakland’s minor league
affiliate in Sacramento. Santangelo described Radomski to him as a personal trainer who was
knowledgeable about dietary issues and as a steroids supplier.
Before obtaining any substances, Piatt had several conversations with Radomski.
They discussed Piatt’s diet and what Piatt should do and take to get in optimal shape for the
upcoming year. Radomski recommended that Piatt modify his diet and work on getting in shape
before he started using human growth hormone. The conversations were all by telephone. Piatt
never met Radomski in person.
Piatt believed he initially obtained human growth hormone and either testosterone
or Deca-Durabolin from Radomski. The substances sat unused for a long time, however, before
he tried them. He was more concerned with the possible long-term health risks than with the
ethical issues.
He also thought about the problems he was having in baseball. A friend on the
team told Piatt that he lacked the bat speed he had enjoyed before his illness. Ultimately, Piatt
began using performance enhancing substances during the 2002-03 off-season. Piatt’s typical
regimen was to take one shot of testosterone per week for three to five weeks. He also injected
himself with human growth hormone every day until he contracted carpal tunnel syndrome. He
talked to Radomski about this side effect and then decreased the frequency of his use.
201
Survey drug testing was conducted in Major League Baseball in 2003. Piatt did
not change his regimen because of that testing. He was tested sometime during the summer.
Piatt retired from baseball in 2004 at the age of 28 because he had lost his love for
the game. He believes that he could have played longer. According to Piatt, the time he used
illegal substances was the only time he did not enjoy baseball. He thought he had "compromised
something."
Piatt made some payments to Radomski in 2004, but he said that those were to
satisfy old debts for 2003 shipments. He said he had no need for, and did not use, human growth
hormone after he retired. Piatt noted that Radomski never encouraged Piatt to use more
substances after Piatt said he wanted to stop. Radomski provided eight checks from Piatt, with
dates ranging from 2002 to 2004, and totaling $11,550. All are included in the Appendix. One
is shown below.
by salb918 on Dec 13, 2007 11:08 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
nooooooooooooooo
by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2007 11:09 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
??
He also injected himself with human growth hormone every day until he contracted carpal tunnel syndrome.
by Jennifer on Dec 13, 2007 11:12 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Damn
those repetitive stress injuries. He could've had some physical therapy to learn a different injection technique that wouldn't have put so much strain on his carpal tunnel.
by skigurl on Dec 13, 2007 12:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
(rehash of Chron article, nothing new)
by salb918 on Dec 13, 2007 11:11 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
List of A's
Randy Velarde
Jason Giambi
Miguel Tejada
Jose Canseco
FP Santangelo
Adam Piatt
Jose Guillen
Jack Cust
David Justice
Cody McKay
by JLaff on Dec 13, 2007 11:11 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
fp santangelo
doesn't he work for KNBR? anyone listening to that station?
by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2007 11:13 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
He has his own morning show here in Sac
on 1140, I think.
by theblackpearl on Dec 13, 2007 11:38 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
FP has always played stupid about Roids
Claimed he never saw it-minded his own business, etc--I ass-umed since he was a little guy he was just following the code of silence.
KNBR has a juicer.
by Aparicio11 on Dec 13, 2007 12:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
safe to say
it was rampant in the A's clubhouse
by jubjub on Dec 13, 2007 11:14 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
so only one current a's player
and the cust thing is from when he was on the orioles AAA team?
that's really not so terrible compared to how hard some teams are getting hit (although he was our best hitter).
given the canseco and balco links, i expected worse.
by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2007 11:17 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Velarde p 147
Randy Velarde admitted to us, through his lawyer, that he had used performance
enhancing substances he obtained from Greg Anderson. According to his lawyer, if interviewed,
Velarde would have told us he received the "cream" and the "clear" from Anderson in a
transaction that occurred in a parking lot during spring training in 2003. Velarde was playing for
the Oakland Athletics at the time, was near the end of his career and was attempting to play for
another year to support his family.
by salb918 on Dec 13, 2007 11:12 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
A look at Velarde told you what you needed
a second baseman built like Popeye---hea was on something before he got to the A's.
by Aparicio11 on Dec 13, 2007 12:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not good for Mickey
p. 203
In Juicing the Game, the author Howard Bryant wrote that during the 2002 season, an airport security screener found a syringe in Tejada’s briefcase. Tejada reportedly explained that he received a supply of vitamin B12 from the Dominican Republic that he administered to himself.Mickey Morabito, the
director of team travel for the Oakland Athletics, confirmed the incident in an interview with my investigative staff. He acknowledged that he did not report the incident to anyone with the club or the Commissioner’s Office.
by Englishmajor on Dec 13, 2007 11:14 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Justice p 181
Radomski said he made one sale to Justice, which occurred after the 2000 World
Series. Justice played for the Yankees that year. Justice paid Radomski by check for two or
three kits of human growth hormone. Radomski said that he cashed this check.
Justice said that the Commissioner’s Office and the major league clubs did
nothing during his career to discourage players from using steroids. He said that during his
career he was never in a meeting where the players were told "you can’t take steroids" and that
"in my fourteen years there was never a mention of steroids" in any presentation given by any
club, the Commissioner’s Office, or the Players Association. Justice said that he had never been
warned of the side effects or consequences of steroid use and had never been told that steroids
were a banned substance.
by salb918 on Dec 13, 2007 11:14 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Quickly scanned, but aside from the
Radomski stuff, the "names" in the report are just a re-hash of previously made allegations with no additional evidence.
by salb918 on Dec 13, 2007 11:16 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
it's because there are only a handful of sources
for the entire report, so most of the names from those few sources were already leaked.
by jubjub on Dec 13, 2007 11:21 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Cust is on the list.
Back to his time with Baltimore.
by Flashfire on Dec 13, 2007 11:16 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Read above what they said about Cust.
If that counts as "proof" of...anything, then monkeyball is my nephew.
"Bigbie’s locker was next to Cust’s. Cust eventually
asked Bigbie if he had ever tried steroids. Bigbie acknowledged he had, and Cust said that he,
too, had tried steroids. Cust told Bigbie that he had a source who could procure anything he
wanted, but Bigbie informed him he already had a friend who could supply him."
ohmigod! This one time, Jackie told Loni that she saw Cindi kissing Mike!
by salb918 on Dec 13, 2007 11:22 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
mikeA, or mikev?
by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2007 11:33 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Pics of Cindi?
I'll need them before I can either confirm or deny that it was or was not me kissing her.
by mikev on Dec 13, 2007 3:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
whats mitchell saying?
i dont have sound on my work computer..damn bosses
by oakwin2004 on Dec 13, 2007 11:16 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Just said
Selig shouldn't impose penalties on players for past usage unless conduct was so outrageous that it can't be ignored.
by doctorK on Dec 13, 2007 11:22 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
PDF has copies of everyone's checks
Miggy has rather curly handwriting. Glenallen Hill has a big script H on his checks. No one yet seems to have kitties or bunnies or flags.
by Englishmajor on Dec 13, 2007 11:16 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I think I spotted some tulips(?).
by Jennifer on Dec 13, 2007 12:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
those probably belonged to the guys ...
... taking steroids intended for women.
by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2007 12:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i beat you
by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2007 12:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
pujols
i don't see pujols in the report. Was that just a rumor then?
by dbeach13 on Dec 13, 2007 11:17 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
No Milton Bradley either
by pickinmachine on Dec 13, 2007 11:18 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No Nomah
by pickinmachine on Dec 13, 2007 11:23 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No Brady Anderson
That was a little bit of a shock.
by mikev on Dec 13, 2007 3:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
thank god it is
i wudve given up baseball had pujols taken steroids
by harendaman365 on Dec 13, 2007 11:56 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
well just because he's not in the report
doesn't mean pujols is clean. lots of players are not named.
and we know a trainer closely connected to pujols got steroids for jason grimsley.
by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2007 11:58 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Red Sox staff were discussing in emails
In December 2006!
In considering whether to trade for (Brendan) Donnelly in 2007, Red Sox baseball operations personnel internally discussed concerns that Donnelly was using performance enhancing substances. In an email to vice president of player personnel Ben Charington dated December 13, 2006, Zack Scott of the Red Sox baseball operations staff wrote of Donnelly: “He was a juice guy but his velocity hasn’t changed a lot over the years . . . If he was a juice guy, he could be a breakdown candidate.”427 Kyle Evans of the baseball operations staff agreed with these concerns, responding in an email that “I haven’t heard many good things about him, w[ith] significant steroid rumors.”
by Englishmajor on Dec 13, 2007 11:21 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Manny Alexander, Eric Gagne.
by salb918 on Dec 13, 2007 11:28 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Lots of players who have been with the Red Sox
at one time. The biggest thing to me though is the reports that the Red Sox front office repeatedly and recently discussed steroids when considering signings, concluded that the players involved (Donnelly, Gagne, still reading) were juicing and still signed them. And that the only concern seemed to be that the steroids might lead them to break down.
by green star oakland on Dec 13, 2007 11:31 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
For example
When the Boston Red Sox were considering acquiring Gagné, a Red Sox official made specific inquiries about Gagné’s possible use of steroids. In a November 1, 2006 email to a Red Sox scout, general manager Theo Epstein asked, "Have you done any digging on Gagne? I know the Dodgers think he was a steroid guy. Maybe so. What do you hear on his medical?" The scout, Mark Delpiano, responded, "Some digging on Gagne and steroids IS the issue. Has had a checkered medical past throughout career including minor leagues. Lacks the poise and commitment to stay healthy, maintain body and re invent self. What made him a tenacious closer was the max effort plus stuff . . . Mentality without the plus weapons and without steroid help probably creates a large risk in bounce back durability and ability to throw average while allowing the change-up to play as it once did . . . Personally, durability (or lack of) will follow Gagne . . ."
Doesn't make Epstein look so good.
by green star oakland on Dec 13, 2007 11:35 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Cust used them??
So now we won't feel guilty rooting for Barry next season, will we?
by BWH on Dec 13, 2007 11:23 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Some of us..
..will feel guilty rooting for either.
And, as a result, not root for either.
by Ozzz on Dec 13, 2007 11:30 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
ZOMG, Cust might have taken PED's 4 years ago
in the minors!
...because that's obviously the same as a guy using to try and break the all-time home run record.
by PaulThomas on Dec 13, 2007 11:39 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I didn't say it was the same.
Put words in folks' mouths much?
by Ozzz on Dec 13, 2007 12:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You can't support a player
who might have taken steroids four years ago in the minor leagues?
Have you considered switching your viewership to ping-pong?
by PaulThomas on Dec 13, 2007 1:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think he's just restricted to Frank Thomas
at bats at this point.
by rebus on Dec 13, 2007 1:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Pretty much.
by Ozzz on Dec 14, 2007 10:22 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
seriously, though ...
... what do you think of the irresponsible-yet-plausible-speculation that Chavez was on 'roids (during the Giambi era and shortly thereafter) and his subsequent physical breakdown has actually been a consequent physical breakdown?
by monkeyball on Dec 14, 2007 2:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Personally..
Now, just wait for the 'that wouldn't stand up in a court of law' crowd to show up.
by Ozzz on Dec 15, 2007 11:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I can't support a player who...
Here's my thing - why would Larry Begbie name Cust if it hadn't happened? Just pulling names out of the air? Why? To what advantage?
He named him, because it happened. And if it happened as he said, then Cust wasn't just using - he was promoting.
by Ozzz on Dec 14, 2007 10:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
At the same time...
Let's not let him off just because he's an A.
The "evidence," er, hearsay, against him is pretty weak, and there are no recent allegations against him.
Still. What if Cust were an Angel? Or a Yankee? Would we be giving him the same benefit of the doubt? I don't have a problem with Cust, and would like to think he's been clean since 2003. But I'm not going to sit a vehemently defend him just because he hits homers while wearing white shoes.
Again, the allegations against Cust specifically look weak, but I don't think Bigbie or Mitchell has any reason to go out of their way to implicate him unless he actually did steroids.
Unless Cust accidentally ran over Bigbie's dog with a car.
*Replace the word, "accidentally" with, "repeatedly," and the word, "dog" with, "son."
by BWH on Dec 13, 2007 1:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Mitchell: From my experience in Northern Ireland
I learned the importance of learning from the past!
by Englishmajor on Dec 13, 2007 11:24 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Troy Glaus
The drugs were shipped to Glaus at his home in California. Glaus declined to comment on these allegations.480 Glaus reportedly met with officials from the Commissioner’s Office in September 2007. On December 6, 2007, the Commissioner’s Office announced that there was insufficient evidence of a violation of the joint program in effect at the time of the conduct in question to warrant discipline of Glaus.
by pickinmachine on Dec 13, 2007 11:27 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
And then those paragraphs were repeated.
by salb918 on Dec 13, 2007 11:29 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
They had a 'joint program'?
Is there ANY drug these guys won't use?
by Ozzz on Dec 13, 2007 11:31 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
So.........
"On December 6, 2007, the Commissioner’s Office announced that there was insufficient evidence of a violation of the joint program in effect at the time"........means that they just lacked the proper rolling papers"...................ouch!
by mrod on Dec 13, 2007 8:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think youre supposed to
MLB knows they can't fix a problem when players and teams alike benefit from it. Dissatisfied fans are a huge weapon.
by BleacherDrummer on Dec 13, 2007 1:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Primer is down.
Traffice overload, I'm sure.
by salb918 on Dec 13, 2007 11:29 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Words of wisdom from Pinto
Update: Mitchell is concerned about the children. Screw them. Teenagers are going to use drugs no matter how good an example adults set.
http://www.baseballmusings.com/archi...
by salb918 on Dec 13, 2007 11:31 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
so levels of drug use would be the same
whether or not kids were exposed to drugs from their relatives and other adults?
i don't know about that...
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...
by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2007 11:36 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
What that is is
fighting inane posturing with inane posturing.
by mikeA on Dec 13, 2007 11:48 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
So he has one great source...
and the rest of it is names we already knew. Not as interesting as it was made out to be.
Clemens, Pettitte, Tejada....very interesting, the rest is whatever.
by OaktownPower on Dec 13, 2007 11:32 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
From what it sounds
it sounds like they are saying that we NEED an HGH testing program and blood testing...
while simultaniously telling players its ok to keep cheating, cause we can't catch you.
by Zonis on Dec 13, 2007 11:32 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
HGH would be really hard to test for
Good luck with that.
by MrIncognito on Dec 13, 2007 11:37 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
hahaha
is anyone getting cross audio on espn from espn deportes?
by pickinmachine on Dec 13, 2007 11:36 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Yeah, I got that, too
by Poppy on Dec 13, 2007 11:38 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
lol
I take it you heard it too
by pickinmachine on Dec 13, 2007 11:37 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm much more interested in Mitchell's framing
... (and, yes, that's an intentional double entendre) of the issue than in the, as others have noted above, hearsay/rehash/nonsurprise list of names.
Mitchell is fairly even-handed -- while he implicitly lays most of the blame for the current mess at the feet of the MLBPA, he concedes that there is a lot of validity to the union's allegation that MLB itself apparently didn't give two shits about the issue until 2002.
by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2007 11:38 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I just listened to his live statement
and downloaded the report. I summed up some of his statement and put the MLB link to the report in the main diary that Blez just published.
by OaklandSi on Dec 13, 2007 11:39 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
well fay vincent cared
at least a little bit.
by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2007 11:40 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
there's "cared," there's "tried to do something,"
... and there's "finally officially consolidated owners' total control of the OotC and did squat for years while reaping the greater macroeconomic benefits of the PEDs."
by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2007 11:45 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Crap.
by oblique on Dec 13, 2007 11:39 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
FP Santangelo fan, eh?
by Poppy on Dec 13, 2007 11:43 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Matt Williams
According to the article, Palm Beach Rejuvenation Center records show that on March 9, 2002, Williams ordered $5,693 of testosterone cypionate, human growth hormone, clomiphene, Novarel, and syringes, and on May 8, 2002, Williams ordered $6,000 worth of testosterone cypionate, nandrolone, clomiphene, Novarel, and syringes. The orders reportedly were sent to Williams at a business address in Scottsdale, Arizona. The article reported that “Williams’ prescriptions were written by the same dentist who prescribed [human] growth hormone for [Paul] Byrd and [Jose] Guillen.”
The article reported that Williams admitted that a doctor told him that human growth hormone might help him heal from an ankle injury that he had suffered in 2002. “He said he learned about the Florida center from a health magazine and went through a battery of tests before obtaining a prescription for growth hormone in 2002.” Williams reportedly said that he did not know that a dentist had written prescriptions for him. He did not comment on whether he had ordered or used steroids or drugs intended for use by women, as reportedly reflected in the records. Neither I nor any member of my investigative staff had any prior knowledge of any allegation about Williams.
by pickinmachine on Dec 13, 2007 11:42 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
In other words:
"I read a newspaper article implicating Matt Williams and did not conduct any follow up work."
by salb918 on Dec 13, 2007 11:48 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
"steroids or drugs intended for use by women"?
Give. Me. A. Fucking. Break. That statement, while technically within the bounds of truth, is willfully ignorant and inaccurate and intentionally defamatory.
That's like saying "John Doe did not comment on whether he had ordered or used penicillin or antibiotics intended for use in making cheese, as reportedly reflected in the records."
by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2007 11:50 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm missing the defamatory part, I think.
by Poppy on Dec 13, 2007 11:52 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
twofold
- Insinuating that Williams used drugs not intended for the purpose to which he took them (which is, in fact, true of pretty much every single player named)
- Taking the unnecessary step of adding the noninformative detail of "intended for women," which is Mitchell's equivalent of photoshopping a purse on A-Rod running to first
by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2007 11:55 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Okay on #1,
but come on re: #2. It's not exactly like he made both of those points separately (like "Williams took drugs for purposes for which they were not intended, and some of them were even intended for women."). Saying that he took drugs that were intended for women is just making it explicitly clear that he was not using them for their intended purpose, since, obviously, he's a man.
by Poppy on Dec 13, 2007 12:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
disagree vehemently
Why make either point in this instance, but not in others?
My guess: most of the individual "guilty" player narratives were written by different investigators/lawyers/assistants/paralegals, and no one ever spent any time applying consistent framing/editing to them. (Understandable, because doing that would have pushed back the pub date by a good 4 months.)
by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2007 12:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If the point is that he used drugs for purposes
other than their intended purpose, why not phrase it in a way that makes that fact very clear? If they reported that he was using bovine hormones, would you be upset that they're likening Williams to a cow?
by Poppy on Dec 13, 2007 12:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
So repeating something from a newspaper
article is defamatory? Lazy maybe, but come on...
by mikeA on Dec 13, 2007 12:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'll give Mitchell/team "lazy"
Newspaper gets defamatory.
by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2007 12:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It's not libelous,
at least assuming that it's true.
If the truth is defamatory... well, tough cookies in my book.
by PaulThomas on Dec 13, 2007 12:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
monkey
I suggest you bone up on steroid use before you suggest ulterior motives.
Steroid users DO use "steroids or drugs intended for use by women".
He's referring to drugs like Clomid or Human Chorionic Gonadotropin.
They take this drugs for to restimulate testosterone production after they come off a cycle.
They also take various drugs, usually used by women, to block estradio.
by rfloh on Dec 13, 2007 12:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Or talk to some friends who
are body builders, weight lifters, power lifters.
by rfloh on Dec 13, 2007 12:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
to block ESTRADIOL
by rfloh on Dec 13, 2007 12:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
and I suggest you bone up on remedial reading
As I clearly stated, all of the accused 'roid users could have accurately been described as same. Nowhere did I say that this wasn't true.
Mitchell/staff's mistake here was being lazy and just repeating the newspaper's account without editing it to fit into the narrative of the entire report.
by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2007 1:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Did you not say
"Taking the unnecessary step of adding the noninformative detail of "intended for women," which is Mitchell's equivalent of photoshopping a purse on A-Rod running to first"
This is NOT the equivalent of "photoshopping a purse on A-Rod running to first"
Steroid users DO use "steroids or drugs intended for use by women", to restimulate test production and to block estradiol.
by rfloh on Dec 13, 2007 1:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
take things out of context, much?
I will stand by that comment in its context.
by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2007 1:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
technically...
rather than being upset that that detail was added in Williams' case, I think the issue is more that it wasn't subtracted. In any event, why so defensive? Remedial reading line was funny but unnecessary.
by Cutthemullet on Dec 13, 2007 1:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
also, going back to your original post
How can something be simultaneously within the bounds of truth and inaccurate? What the fuck does that mean?
by Cutthemullet on Dec 13, 2007 1:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
to clarify
I take "inaccurate" to be all-but-synonymous with "false"...thus my bewilderment.
by Cutthemullet on Dec 13, 2007 1:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
"rfloh and cutthemullet ..."
" ... both posted using technology that is used for child p*rn*graphy."
True, but inaccurate.
by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2007 2:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Is that inaccurate?
That's probably the wrong question to ask here...you didn't help me out any with the example you chose...but wouldn't that be..."true, and accurate, but...misleading"?
by Cutthemullet on Dec 13, 2007 2:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
What is it that you think
people were going to infer from the "drugs intended for women" thing?
by mikeA on Dec 13, 2007 2:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And what is that context?
The fact is that drugs like Clomid, HCG, Nolvadex, also known as tamoxifen citrate are typically used by women.
by rfloh on Dec 13, 2007 1:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
in the Report, he *recommends* they not be
... unless, of course, their use was so damaging to the Psyche of the Nation that the Commissioner had no choice but to save the Republic by condemning the villain.
It's the Let-Bud-Ban-Bonds clause.
by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2007 11:53 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
yep, exactly
by pickinmachine on Dec 13, 2007 11:54 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
but those HGH guys, watch out!
by jubjub on Dec 13, 2007 12:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Cust's name in there,
regardless of the context, still makes me sad. Not gonna help him tryin' to get his career solidified.
"No. It's Oakland."
by Kyli on Dec 13, 2007 11:53 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Well...
I think I have some reading material for this weekend's snow storm.
by Jennifer on Dec 13, 2007 11:54 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Seems appropriate
A shit-storm in a snow-storm.
by green star oakland on Dec 13, 2007 11:57 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Oh, the weather outside is frightful...
by oblique on Dec 13, 2007 11:58 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Cust def. loses some luster off his star
by athleticsBB4life on Dec 13, 2007 11:57 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
hell no
he isnt taking steroids at this time. And honestly can you blame the guy, a great hitter, watching as lesser guys juicing up get to the big leagues, and hes left to wile his time in crappy hotel rooms? Doesnt make it right, but his sill story is still luster-ish, i gess...
by harendaman365 on Dec 13, 2007 12:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
How do you know he isn't taking them now?
by kaweahkaweah on Dec 13, 2007 12:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't presume that. Where did I say that?
But apparently, you are presuming he isn't using.
by kaweahkaweah on Dec 13, 2007 12:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It's the look on your face.
by Poppy on Dec 13, 2007 12:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Adam Piatt and Larry Bigbie said you did.
5 years ago.
by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2007 1:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Since he hasn't tested positive
I'm pleasantly assuming he's clean now.
by methodrampage on Dec 13, 2007 12:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No test for HGH.
Alas.
by Ozzz on Dec 13, 2007 12:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Once guilty, always guilty?
by methodrampage on Dec 13, 2007 3:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And the kids who do likewise...
Saying that if a guy wants to screw up his life to hit dingers, you don't care, fails to consider that for every guy like that who sits in the bigs for several seasons being a monster, there's another ten guys beneath him who will have to do likewise to try to take his spot.
Kids die from steroid use every year, and the fact that it's so rampant at the top is why.
by Ozzz on Dec 14, 2007 10:10 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Jack "The Murderer" Cust
I'm far from a humanitarian and I don't these kids dieing from steroids, henceforth I don't care and will continue to enjoy watch Cust hits monstrous homeruns added by HGH or not.
by methodrampage on Dec 14, 2007 12:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
truly, an honorable post
assuming you omitted the word "see" between "don't" and "these", all I have to say is...fucked up.
by Cutthemullet on Dec 14, 2007 2:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Add literate to the list of things I'm not
But I also don't believe there's an epidemic of kids dieing from steroids.
by methodrampage on Dec 18, 2007 10:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Kids die from steroids?
I'll bet you $50 that more kids drown in buckets every year than die from steroid use.
Actually, I know that's true. Steroid use is well documented in literature, and the side effects are highly dose dependent. Misuse and overdose is a problem like any other drug, but in general they are quite safe to use if done properly. The problem is, they are labeled as "bad," so information and education is limited, and then you get problems.
by MrIncognito on Dec 14, 2007 2:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
information is limited...
but use is well-documented? Does that make sense?
And I'm sure the statistics on kids drowning in buckets is well-documented enough for you to know that your exaggeration is actually true. Buckets? Maybe in developing countries or something, but I thought we were talking about the good old US of A here. This is the "national pastime", after all.
I'd say with the resources on the Internet, you'd be able to find some pretty reliable steroid usage...advice. Not that I've ever even looked for voyeuristic purposes...or research...or whatever.
by Cutthemullet on Dec 14, 2007 2:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
clarification
by MrIncognito on Dec 15, 2007 11:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
there goes my respect for Al Simmons
by monkeyball on Dec 14, 2007 2:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
So let me get this straight.
wow.
by Ozzz on Dec 15, 2007 11:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
didn't you say upthread...
that if Pujols were to be indicted here (not in the legal sense), that you would've been pissed and, like, stopped following the game? Seems like a double standard, man.
by Cutthemullet on Dec 13, 2007 1:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i dunno about that
1, this is all heresay. 2, this refers to a few years ago. if these allegations were from last year, that'd be different. also, from what i remember, cust was always around this size. he didn't get noticeably bigger if he juiced. unfortunate, sure (if true), but i don't think it's that big a deal.
by guy incognito on Dec 13, 2007 12:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
frank thomas
the only player besides jason giambi (who had no choice because they threatened him) to cooperate with the mitchell report.
by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2007 11:59 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Big Hurt: the Elia Kazan of baseball
by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2007 12:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Adam Piatt
Sounds like Piatt was pretty darn cooperative...
by LoveDemAs on Dec 13, 2007 12:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i'm just repeating what espn said
by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2007 12:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Former player.
NT
by Ozzz on Dec 13, 2007 12:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
lol...read this
"bigbie was also concerned that taking HGH would hinder his ability to have children"
by harendaman365 on Dec 13, 2007 12:02 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
his roids "were intended for use by women"
by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2007 12:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
but he's in there a bunch
by jubjub on Dec 13, 2007 12:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i don't understand
how can they keep saying he's not named if he's in there a bunch?
by OaklandSi on Dec 13, 2007 12:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
They keep saying
"Some really freaking huge dude with red hair, a bad goatee, and serious acne issues."
No names, though.
by Ozzz on Dec 13, 2007 12:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
*BUSTED*
That's me.
by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2007 1:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
by the way Urban is saying that initial reports that McGwire was not named are inaccurate.
I haven't seen the players in any list in this 200+ page report. You have to go through the whole thing and note each individual name...so people making quick lists may be making mistakes.
(I'll resist the urge to stop working and go through the report!)
by OaklandSi on Dec 13, 2007 1:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The word "McGwire" appears 46 times in the report
by green star oakland on Dec 13, 2007 1:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
"and" appears 3293 times
That And fellow is real piece of work!
by kaweahkaweah on Dec 13, 2007 1:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
But we all know
who the (7703) real culprit is.
by green star oakland on Dec 13, 2007 1:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I bet AN appears in that report a lot.
by Poppy on Dec 13, 2007 1:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
A quick use of the "find" function
can verify individual players ... the report discusses McGwire at great length -- though it does not appear to reveal anything new (he used Andro in 98, he was named in Canseco's book, Operation Equine, he said nothing to Congress).
by devo on Dec 13, 2007 1:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I remember FP talking about seeing players use
steroids in the Expos locker room, and how it was always around, when the issue came up on the radio in an interview.
There is a tiny 'LOL' factor remembering those comments now.
"No. It's Oakland."
by Kyli on Dec 13, 2007 12:09 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I remember that...
He talked about how he didn't care if other people did it because it would just make the team better. Telling, in hindsight.
by towndunce on Dec 13, 2007 12:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Not a big deal.
Honestly, what did anyone expect? These guys get payed to perfrom at their highest ability and if MLB had no problem, at the time, with them enhancing their ability artifically then neither do I.
And don't get started on the "but steroids are illegal" thing. Up until 3 or 4 years ago the government didn't do anything to really enforce the illegality of steroids much like MLB.
by methodrampage on Dec 13, 2007 12:36 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Randy Velarde
wasn't highlighted in the updated list.
Also, Bobby Estaella used steriods? DUH!!
by micdog2001 on Dec 13, 2007 1:13 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
HAVE YOU NO SENSE OF DECENCY, SIR?
If you did, you'd come up with your own personal Mitchel report like I did:
LAXile's Own Personal Mitchel Report:
Roger Clemens
Rogers Hornsby
Kirby Puckett
Bruno Kirby
Billy Beane
Beanie Babies (especially Erin)
Marco Scutaro
Eric Byrnes
Floyd Landis
Jason Kendal
Poppy
Mother Teresa
The NFL
1992 Olympic Swedish Curling Team
Hannah Montana
Brett Farve
John Edwards
Wallace Shawn
Mink Stole
Irma Vep
Babe Ruth
Justin AND Kelly
Shrek
Captain Beefheart
Madonna
The Jolly Green Giant (is this really a surprise?)
Lightening McQueen
Barry Bonds
Barry White
Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee
Cher (duh)
oaktoon
by LAXile on Dec 13, 2007 1:17 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
"I have in my hand
a list of 206 card-carrying steroid users currently employed in major league baseball..."
by PaulThomas on Dec 13, 2007 1:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Don't forget this guy...

by Poppy on Dec 13, 2007 1:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I have to say
This is possibly the single funniest picture I've ever seen.
by PaulThomas on Dec 13, 2007 3:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Either that's a really small couch
or that (gulp) cat's locker is next to Mark Sweeney's. (And don't think I want play the Sweeney card a few more times in this thread.)
by LAXile on Dec 13, 2007 4:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
that cat took steroids intended for a dog
by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2007 5:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
My Dinner With Andre
... Andre the Giant!
by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2007 2:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Damn it
I should have known Van Vliet was using bovine growth hormone. I'll never listen to "Trout Mask Replica" again.
by andeux on Dec 13, 2007 2:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
for that album, Don used piscine growth hormone
... and, of course, a masking agent.
by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2007 2:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
apparently, his locker was next to Mark Sweeney's
by LAXile on Dec 13, 2007 4:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'll never watch winter Olympians from Sweden
again...their biathlon squad is definitely tainted in my eyes.
by Cutthemullet on Dec 13, 2007 2:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
A squid eating dough in a polyethylene bag
is fast and bulbous.
by JediLeroy on Dec 13, 2007 4:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That's right The Mascara Snake!
Fast n bulbous. Tight also.
by andeux on Dec 13, 2007 4:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The List of A's
One thing about the bolded A's on that list is that with the exception of Cust, everyone else has been shipped out. While I don't doubt that Beane would've kept 'em all for the right price, you have to wonder if the steroids issue was a factor in their departure - Guillen in particular.
Does anyone have thoughts on how Billy Beane handled the steroid matter relative to other front office execs?
by BleacherDrummer on Dec 13, 2007 1:23 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I suppose its possible
that learning that Cust was juicing (and the attendant injury problems... including carpal tunnel syndrome) led to the A's not trying very hard to keep him in the org after 2005. That would kind of beg the question, however: If that's true, why did they let him back in?
Maybe they figured with the new emphasis on testing this year, they could actually view him as clean when he wasn't busted in the first month of the season.
by PaulThomas on Dec 13, 2007 1:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well ...
Velarde, Santangelo and Justice retired with the A's ...
Ostensibly, Beane tried hard to get Ja Giambi to return ...
Adam Piatt was given every chance to stick with them team ... but eventually he was out of options, so they had to let him go ...
Cody McKay was blocked by Chavez (And had no future in the Majors, anyway ...) so when he became a minor league free agent, he left.
It's possible that steroids could have contributed to Beane's decision to choose Chavez over Tejada.
Je Giambi and Guillen were shipped out/let go for behavioral problems -- clearly a possible steroids link.
As a whole, I don't think there is a pattern developing here ...
by devo on Dec 13, 2007 2:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe not, but maybe so
I've long thought (and monkeyball said something similar upthread) that there might have been a conscious decision around 2001 to clean the team up - not so much out of a moral objection to steroids, but either because of concerns about players breaking down or because Beane saw the writing on the wall and didn't want the A's to become the poster child franchise for steroids (any more than they already were) when stuff started becoming public. Specifically:
Stairs was traded in 2000 (and an AN'er who seems to know these things has told me that he was the main supplier for a lot of his teammates at the time).
Giambi left after 2001, and there were a lot of rumblings soon after that the real hangup with his extension was not the no-trade clause, but that Schott/Hoffman didn't want to commit so much money to a juicer.
Little Brother Jeremy was traded and best buddy Frank Menechino was demoted as part of the 2002 purge.
Tejada left after 2002, and Beane has talked about that decision having some "context" that he didn't want to get into.
Granted there are a lot of "maybes" in there, and the franchise hasn't been completely clean in subsequent years (Guillen, Cust), but it certainly seemed to me that there was an effort to make Oakland less of the laboratory that it had been known as.
On a related note, I've also wondered how much the Moneyball philosophy of drafting players with plate discipline and counting on them developing power was influenced by the rampant juicing of the times.
by andeux on Dec 13, 2007 2:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
As I recall,
I was mocked heavily in an earlier thread for suggesting that Giambi partially screwed up several future A's drafts by causing the A's front office to think that sudden power explosions were par for the course.
I make no secret of the fact that my bitterness toward Giambi is in no small part due to this. He was a prototype, all right, but he wasn't the prototype Paul DePodesta thought he was.
by PaulThomas on Dec 13, 2007 3:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The thing is
Beane had been a close friend of Lenny Dykstra, and a bench player on the McGwire/Canseco A's. Unless he's a lot stupider than we all think, he must have had at least some idea of the role that steroids played in the mid-90s power surge.
by andeux on Dec 13, 2007 3:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
cue my other recent baseless speculation
by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2007 3:27 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
actually, now, the more I think about it ...
... I'm going to 100% reverse my recent baseless speculation (Poppy's ISOTO nom). That could be as good a reason as any as to why Beane suddenly up and walked away from trying to compete as an on-field player and jumped into scouting -- that he just wasn't willing to do what was becoming more and more necessary for fringe players, esp. in that clubhouse.
by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2007 3:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You're really leaving no stone unturned
by mikeA on Dec 13, 2007 3:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
he's just being thorough
at this point i think he's covered every possible conspiracy theory.
by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2007 3:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Beane ditched 'roiders ...
... as the first step in a complex plan to get us back on the gold standard.
by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2007 4:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
True enough
Unfortunately, there's no way of knowing whether he:
a. Discounted the effect of steroids
b. Figured everyone was going to take steroids anyway, so the principle could be generalized
c. Figured if he drafted enough guys of the right type, a few of them would take steroids and succeed
d. Just plain f***ed up in assuming that Giambi was replicable
by PaulThomas on Dec 13, 2007 4:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
It's definitely a theory with possibilities ...
by devo on Dec 13, 2007 3:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
discounting my own theory ...
... though I still think it's valid speculation, there are a couple things (off the top of my head; likely many others) that mitigate against it:
- Why would Beane put himself at such a strong competitive disadvantage?
- Why, really, would Beane do it at all? Your presumptive motivations don't seem wrong to me -- just not strong enough to motivate Beane to do it without some other compelling reason(s)
- Why would Beane have expressed such admiration for Bonds in the past, and why would Bonds be being linked by "industry sources" to a possible A's contract?
- Wouldn't there have been whispers around the league about this, and wouldn't we have heard something about this by now if it were true?
by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2007 3:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
More discounting
The list likely does not cover all the players who have taken PEDs, and likely there are a few on the list who are innocent.
We can't be sure that Beane has shifted PED players away without knowing that
a) He knew who was taking PEDS
b) He let them go.
by MobiusKlein on Dec 13, 2007 10:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
does that ANer have to remain anonymous?
Do you know "OaklandA23" personally, or something?
by Cutthemullet on Dec 13, 2007 3:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i have said the same things on AN
in moneyball, the a's seem to have used the sample size of jason giambi to reach the conclusion that young players with plate discipline will eventually develop power.
by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2007 3:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Right
You kinda summed up what I was getting at. Yes, it's speculation. And certainly, Beane was thinking self-interestedly if he did try to clean up post-2001 so he doesn't get any altruism points.
But given that past A's players are undeniably bigtime abusers, our current team could be in a WHOLE lot worse shape. We're not sitting on bloated deals with oldtimers who made their careers off PEDs. And I for one am glad that we might be ahead of the curve there.
I don't see the A's marketing "Powerball" with John Jaha as its centerpiece anytime soon.
by BleacherDrummer on Dec 13, 2007 3:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Piatt
The steroids recount of Piatt, for me, really adds to the sad story that was his career in MLB. He claims he wasn't doing steroids at all when he was crushing in the minors and then after a crippling viral infection he tried them to get back in the game. This just goes to show that this is not the players' fault at all, its MLB's fault. Players just view the PEDs as shortcuts or means of longevity to the achieving or maintaining their inherent abilities, so its hard to say they are bad people. MLB has allowed steroids to become a part of the status quo and for that the blame rests on them. Of course, if the players union didnt have them by the balls Im sure it would have been dealt with long ago...Stupid players union.
by SwisherSweet on Dec 13, 2007 1:25 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Not the players' fault at all?
They all exercised free will, regardless of how they were influenced by the pressure of competition and the league's lack of concern for their well-being. All parties involved are culpable -- league, owners, union and players.
by Poppy on Dec 13, 2007 1:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
yuppers all the way 'round
by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2007 2:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
there's also the chance that Piatt lied
by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2007 2:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Very surprising
to hear George Mitchell's name in the report. As a former Senator, he should be ashamed.
by jubjub on Dec 13, 2007 1:38 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
You know who's juicing?

by salb918 on Dec 13, 2007 2:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
That's actually Cust before he started 'roiding.
Before that he went by the name of Jairo Cust La Lanne.
by LAXile on Dec 13, 2007 4:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I thought it was Tejada during the offseason
by jubjub on Dec 13, 2007 6:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
wow, Selig at least posturing...
that he might punish guys based on their inclusion in the report...against Mitchell's wishes. Who wouldn't have thought, beforehand, that it would be the other way around?
by Cutthemullet on Dec 13, 2007 1:46 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
after enduring Mitchell's evasiveness...
Selig might not be all that bright, but at least he's being more forthright here...once again, situation opposite from what I expected.
by Cutthemullet on Dec 13, 2007 1:51 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
who would have thought the better liar
was the used car salesman
by jubjub on Dec 13, 2007 1:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
heh
I don't think Mitchell was lying, just...choosing his words far too carefully, especially for the press conference.
by Cutthemullet on Dec 13, 2007 2:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
So who will be the first on AN...
to read the entire report? Free sample of HGH for the winner.
by Cutthemullet on Dec 13, 2007 1:55 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
I think we can all agree that I'd benefit most.
by salb918 on Dec 13, 2007 2:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
how do we know you haven't already?
by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2007 2:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'll do it
But I would rather have a sample of Enzyte. My GF would agree.
by ozzman99 on Dec 13, 2007 2:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
well, then
mikeA might be the person to ask there (reference to another thread, lol). Separate division of the contest, right here.
by Cutthemullet on Dec 13, 2007 2:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
lol
You'll inexplicably dominate your next softball game (if you haven't retired yet).
by Cutthemullet on Dec 13, 2007 2:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
No, I'm just a fringe guy trying to make the
roster.
by salb918 on Dec 13, 2007 2:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
heh
Best of luck, and beware carpal tunnel
by Cutthemullet on Dec 13, 2007 2:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I had that problem
after too much rosterbation.
by andeux on Dec 13, 2007 2:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Great rotoworld quip
SI.com also says Brian Roberts is there, as are former Yankees Mike Stanton, Jason Grimsley and Chuck Knoblauch. Apparently, steroids don't help you throw to first base.
by Henduland in Texas on Dec 13, 2007 2:00 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Pretty interesting hindsight read.
My favorite quote:
The reason why my velocity continues to be what it is (is) because of what we're doing behind the scenes.
by Scottbass on Dec 13, 2007 2:12 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
guess he wasn't talking about Mel Stottlemyre
by Cutthemullet on Dec 13, 2007 2:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Clemens is doing Mel Stottlemyre
behind the scenes?
by oblique on Dec 13, 2007 3:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
for those who have read this
-is there a connection between clemens and canseco (through the trainer)?
-so sabean was told by stan conte that there was a steroids distributer (greg anderson) in the clubhouse and sabean didn't pass the information along to MLB or his superiors in the giants organization?
by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2007 4:23 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
More than anybody else...
Sabean comes across in the report as the front office person most anxious to look the other way. When Stan Conte came to Sabean with concerns the response was mostly along the lines of "deal with it yourself, Stan". See pages 121-127 of the report (pages 169-175 of the PDF file).
by Soaker on Dec 13, 2007 4:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
ok thanks
time to check out what they're saying about this over on mccoveychronicles...
by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2007 4:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
(Stan) Conte asked (Greg) Anderson for a resume during spring training. In response, Anderson supplied a one-page document indicating that Anderson had graduated from high school and that everything else was “pending.”
by Poppy on Dec 13, 2007 5:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I just wasn't terribly impressed
with Sabean's responses to Conte. It's probably worth pasting some extended quotes here (all from pages 121-127):
During spring training, Conte met with Giants general manager Brian Sabean to express his concerns about the presence of Anderson and Shields in the clubhouse, weight room, and other restricted areas. Conte felt strongly that personal trainers should not have such access, particularly where, as here, he viewed the trainers to be unqualified. Sabean told Conte that if Conte objected to Anderson and Shields being in the clubhouse, Conte should order them out himself. Conte said he would do this if Sabean would support him when Bonds complained, which Conte believed would be the result of his actions. Sabean did not respond to this request for support, leading Conte to believe that Sabean would not do so if Bonds protested. Conte therefore decided to take no action to deny Anderson or Shields access to restricted areas.
In August 2002, the Giants were visiting Atlanta for a series with the Braves. At the time, Anderson was traveling with the Giants. Conte recalls that during this series a Giants player asked Conte about anabolic steroids. Conte refused to identify the player to us, citing athletic trainer privilege. According to Conte, the player told him that he was considering obtaining steroids from Greg Anderson and wanted to know the health issues associated with the use of steroids. In response, Conte explained at some length the health hazards of steroid use and lectured the player about the unfairness to other players posed by the illicit use of steroids. Conte believed that it was "a good lecture" and that he put considerable doubt in the player’s mind.
Conte stated that he reported the incident to general manager Brian Sabean within an hour of its occurrence. He told Sabean he was concerned that Anderson might be distributing steroids to Giants players. While he refused to identify the player who had approached him, Conte otherwise described the conversation to Sabean in detail. Sabean suggested Conte confront Anderson and Bonds about the matter, which Conte refused to do. In Conte’s view, it was not the responsibility of the athletic trainer to address such an issue.
Sabean confirmed in his interview that Conte’s recollection of their conversation was accurate. He also acknowledged that he did not raise the issue with Bonds or Anderson. Instead, he asked Conte if he knew anyone who could "check out" Anderson. Conte said that he knew a Drug Enforcement Administration agent, and Sabean suggested Conte call the agent to check into Anderson. The DEA agent later told Conte that he did not find any information about Anderson. Conte relayed this to Sabean.
Sabean told me that he believed that if Anderson was in fact selling drugs illegally the government would have known about it. So when he received the report from Conte, Sabean did not report the issue to anyone in the Giants organization or the Commissioner’s Office, he did not confront Bonds or Anderson, and he did not take any steps to prohibit Anderson from gaining access to Giants facilities. Sabean said that he was not aware at the time of the Major League Baseball policy that required him to report information regarding a player’s drug use to the Commissioner’s Office.
Sabean explained that he was in a very difficult situation regarding disclosure of this information because, as a result of the clubhouse culture in baseball, he felt he could not risk "outing" Conte as the source of the information. He said that if he had insisted on Anderson’s ouster from the clubhouse, Bonds would have vigorously objected, just as he did when the Giants tried to bar Harvey Shields in response to the later (February 2004) mandate from the Commissioner’s Office barring personal trainers from restricted areas.
In September 2003, published reports revealed that a search warrant was executed on Anderson’s residence in connection with the BALCO investigation and that Anderson was under investigation for the alleged distribution of anabolic steroids. Even after he became aware of this event, Sabean did not inform anyone in the Commissioner’s Office or within the Giants organization of his earlier conversation with Conte about Anderson.
Peter Magowan, the Giants’ managing partner and chief executive officer, recalled asking Sabean directly whether the Giants "had a problem" after reading the news reports of the BALCO raids. Magowan said that what he meant by his inquiry was to ask whether the Giants had a problem with Anderson dispensing steroids; he wanted to know whether Sabean had any reason to know of such a problem. According to Magowan, Sabean responded that he was not aware of any problem the Giants might have. However, Sabean strongly denied that such a conversation occurred.
by Soaker on Dec 13, 2007 6:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
LOL. My favorite part:
Sabean told me that he believed that if Anderson was in fact selling drugs illegally the government would have known about it.
Isn't a big part of doing something illegal, y'know, keeping the feds from knowing about it?
"No. It's Oakland."
by Kyli on Dec 13, 2007 6:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
sabean doesn't look so good; magowan looks worse
Magowan's already on Bud's shitlist -- I wonder if this ultimately ends up with MLB coming up with a pretext to yank SF's territorial rights to San Jose?
by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2007 6:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
athletic trainer privilege???
by salb918 on Dec 13, 2007 7:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I think that's where you get dibs
on the woman at the stairmaster.
by mikeA on Dec 13, 2007 7:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Dibs?
Maybe if you're Larry Davis.
by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2007 7:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Only if you share drugs she can use too
by FreeSeatUpgrade on Dec 13, 2007 8:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
On Clemens-Canseco
it sounds like Canseco was the player who piqued Clemens' interest and then Clemens developed the relationship with McNamee on his own. The Clemens-McNamee discussion is on pages 167-175 of the report (PDF pages 215-223).
by Soaker on Dec 13, 2007 4:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
LOL at this 'shop from Fark

by doctorK on Dec 13, 2007 5:10 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
From ESPN:
Teams with the most current/former players named in the Mitchell report:
Team Total
Yankees 22
Orioles 18
Angels 16
Mets 15
Dodgers 15
Rangers 15
by ST on Dec 13, 2007 6:48 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
There were too few surprises,
The report lacked zing. It left me feeling a little numb. But I was sorry to see Cust outted. I can hardly wait for baseball season to start. I enjoy watching the PED Heads. That's my reaction.
by IM4Oakgal on Dec 13, 2007 9:10 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Give em the * !!!
by OaktownRajah on Dec 14, 2007 3:57 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Black Friday... The Silence is Deafening
Let's see if I have this right...
I was just accused of taking PED's, so it's in my best interest to not say a word.
If I'm accused of anything, I'm on the rooftops proclaiming my innocence.
Remember when Todd Helton was accused of being on Steroids???? He went on the Jim Rome Show ASAP to tell the world he wasn't on them... And you know what? I believe him.
The Silence (...And Lawyer Speak) is Deafening!
by Colorado Fan on Dec 14, 2007 9:24 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Sham
I refuse to credit any report on steroid use over the past 20 years that does not include the name Bret Boone. I pictured Bret and Aaron sitting anxiously in front of their computer with a bottle of Dom P which they proceeded to pop and guzzle after perusing the report and realizing that their names (amazingly, impossibly, incredibly) were nowhere within.
by AlwaysSweatin on Dec 14, 2007 2:15 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

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