Barry Bonds: Worth -5 Wins
Susan Slusser reported the A's may still be interested in Barry Bonds:
According to industry sources, before Bonds was indicted on charges of perjury and obstruction of justice this month, talks between the A's and Bonds were further along than anyone has let on.
Even with the indictment, no one with the team has flat-out rejected the notion of signing him.
But should the A's sign Bonds? Sure his 1.045 OPS was the highest in the NL last year, but the Giants offense only scored 683 runs with Barry clogging up the bases. And they only won 71 games, whereas they had won 72 games without him.
For those who don't trust numbers from a computer, here's Chronicle sportswriter Bruce Jenkins:
If Beane wants to destroy team chemistry, the clubhouse mood and any semblance of sanity by signing Barry Bonds, hey, maybe he doesn't have that much to lose. Remember this, though: Over the past two seasons, Bonds hurt the Giants more from a baseball standpoint than any steroid-related issues. Without Bonds - even if they don't make a single deal - the Giants will improve at least five games in the standings, simply because they can call themselves a team.
As a DH - as opposed to impersonating a refrigerator in left field - Bonds wouldn't be such a detriment, but let's not pretend this has anything to do with winning. This would be about relevance, headlines, notoriety. We're about to find out if there's a price tag on the A's soul.
So the A's wouldn't want Bonds because he could help them lose five more games next year, they would only want him for the headlines.
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131 comments
Comments
Are you now writing for firejoemorgan?
And wow, usage of capital letters threw me off entirely.
by Cutthemullet on Dec 1, 2007 3:02 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
new stat: one Jenkins Unit of Negative Knowledge
by monkeyball on Dec 1, 2007 8:06 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Now that's fantasy baseball.
by Nate on Dec 1, 2007 8:30 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Several things
*I wish I saw more colorado fan, bhaskar, andeux, blackpearl, blamechannel, Oakland Si, devo, mikeA, rebus, cutthemullet, and mdl diaries here.
The comments are always insightful and thought-provoking.
*The Hardball Times had an excellent piece on Bonds from a legal expert last week. IMHO, it was the most important thing we've had on the site in a while. One very interesting part - the author says he's CERTAIN that a Bonds trial wouldn't begin until after the '08 season...meaning that Bonds would be available to play all year long.
From that standpoint, his indictment made him the perfect Beane acquisition - it scared away any other potential suitor, and drove down Bonds' price tag as a result.
Brian Sabean and Peter Magowan were stupid enough to bid against themselves last year, but Beane isn't.
*Bruce Jenkins is an idiot. Allow me to rephrase - he's a sportswriter. Just another blathering piece about emotion and the lush green freshly cut grass, the roar of the crowd, blah blah blah.
You'd think these bastards would read some analysis to better understand the game (defensive statistics, sabermetric stuff, etc.) in order to, you know, do their job better. After all, they have fun, desirable jobs that thousands of people would want.
But no, that'd be too much ask. A sportswriter has the unique opportunity to educate the average fan, the guy who follows the game only in his morning paper. Instead, most of them pander to what average/common fans already believe and think they know. It's irresponsible.
We're about to find the pricetag on the A's soul. What the fuck does that mean, Bruce? This is a team that traded Tim Hudson and Mark Mulder in two days. Our GM cares about winning, Bruce.
by notsellingjeans on Dec 1, 2007 8:55 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
social economy of sports columnizing
Most of the guys over 45 got their jobs by being Carl Bernstein (or thinking they were being Carl Bernstein): dewivvewing the daily wag out their widdle wed wagon when they were very young, hawkin' the local tabloid on the corner wif a Cockney accent, running for the copy desk as a teen, working as a stringer in high school, etc. etc. Their positions are predicated neither on writing ability, knowledge, analytic skill, nor even any sort of privileged access to the sanctum sanctorum (I know: ew. That phrase is spoilt forever) of the locker room.
Sports columnists under 45 (and above 30) are generally j-school strivers who surf from ed board to ed board or backwater daily to backwater daily until they fail upward. Or they're ex-jocks.
In either case, they are the loyal soldiers of patronage machines -- patronage machines that are in the process of falling apart.
And this goes for non-sports columnists as well, but that's a discussion for a different forum.
by monkeyball on Dec 1, 2007 9:13 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Wow, I thought I held a negative view of the
print media. That's by far the best thumbnail sketch concerning the state of the print media I've ever heard.
by alox on Dec 1, 2007 9:58 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
and I wish that...
I saw more notsellingjeans diaries here. :-)
by IM4Oakgal on Dec 1, 2007 10:35 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Yes to all of that
The best posters on AN don't contribute nearly enough diaries. This must be rectified. Come on, people. I don't care about family commitments, job pressures, academic endeavors, social pursuits ... lock yourself in a room, put on whatever music stimulates your synapses, sip some tea, and pound out a flipping diary. While I admit to being amused at PaulThomas and grover yelling at each other over whether Mark Ellis is the 5th or 8th best 2nd baseman in the league, an injection of variety is always welcome.
And while I'm on the subject, I wish the blogosphere would come up with a better term than "diary". Essay? Journal? Column? Forum? Something, anyway, that doesn't evoke visions of pink notebooks with shiny heart stickers on the cover.
Bruce Jenkins. Yeah. You've got to love that sublime cocktail of schmaltz, ignorance, and vehement sanctimony. Lazy, stupid, and not at all averse to throwing out mind-bendingly illogical assertions in service of preemptively accusing an organization of moral dissolution. Yes, Bruce, if the A's sign Bonds we will, all of us, have paid with our very souls - ownership, players, and fans alike. It is just that serious. He is just that evil. And if it does happen, we'll know for sure that Beane has been in counsel with the devil himself, for no person of right mind, on the side of decency and virtue, could possibly convince himself that Barry Bonds might help his team win baseball games.
by 74mk on Dec 1, 2007 1:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I want to see a fevered debate
between PaulThomas and grover over which one of them is the 5th best poster on AN and which one is 8th. For the record, Cindi is 6th and I am 7th.
by Nico on Dec 1, 2007 1:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
LOL
Well, they both offer a winning combination of offensiveness and defensiveness.
by monkeyball on Dec 1, 2007 1:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
grover's ability as a closer -
someone who can be relied on to put out fires - probably earns him the nod for #5.
by Nico on Dec 1, 2007 1:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey!
Any sabermetrician will tell you that there's no such thing as "closer ability."
Do you really want to overpay for grover?
by PaulThomas on Dec 1, 2007 1:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm a federal employee
We offer all kinds of tax breaks when we get signed. Don't like it? Get a lobbyist!
by grover on Dec 1, 2007 3:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Shhh!
We're trying to convert grover into a closer to inflate his value and then trade him to Pinstripe Alley.
by monkeyball on Dec 1, 2007 5:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You bastard!
And after I arranged for Heidi Klum to give you a flea bath!
by grover on Dec 1, 2007 6:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
unfortunately, Heidi's a literalist
She bathed me in fleas.
by monkeyball on Dec 1, 2007 6:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
What's your excuse,
oh fickle and infrequently eloquent muse?
I don't see any diaries in your "written" column.
Someone break out the straightjacket!
by PaulThomas on Dec 1, 2007 1:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Alas,
I don't actually have much to say. About baseball, anyway. So I stick to the role of avid reader / occasional contributor.
by 74mk on Dec 1, 2007 2:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You could be like me
I have nothing relevant to say, so I make stuff up.
by JediLeroy on Dec 1, 2007 7:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You also have one of the five best AN names
Unquestionably.
by notsellingjeans on Dec 1, 2007 8:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I've always liked yours
My top five would go something like this (in no particular order):
notsellingjeans
monkeyball
McFood
FreeSeatUpgrade
LongLiveLangerhans
I've always had a fondness for Duke of Left Field, also.
by JediLeroy on Dec 2, 2007 8:36 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
grover and PaulThomas ...
... each has a methodology that indicates himself to be the 5th or 8th cleverest name on AN.
by monkeyball on Dec 2, 2007 11:35 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
For the record
There was no yelling and I was right.
:-)
by grover on Dec 1, 2007 3:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
you're too kind
i'm just trying to keep up with ya'll.
by rebus on Dec 1, 2007 1:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you, and likewise...
Never need to look further than atop the recommended list for your diaries.
by Cutthemullet on Dec 2, 2007 6:58 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
In 2006, Frank Thomas
hit .270, slugged .545, and clogged up the bases. In 2007, Bonds hit .276, slugged .565, and clogged up the bases. I'd say the Big Hurt helped our offense just fine so I have no doubt Bonds would too. Unless we played Cust in the OF...
by Nico on Dec 1, 2007 9:48 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
agree
In fact I think Bonds can move a lot better than Thomas could. Big Frank could barely squeak out some of those doubles. We all held our breath anytime he had to move other than station to station.
Bonds can't move in the OF, but I think its mental. He doesnt want to risk injury, and frankly doesn't give a shit.
Bonds is a perfectly capable DH, he even stole 5 bases last year.
As much as I dislike him, he would be a significant upgrade to the team offensively.
by pickinmachine on Dec 1, 2007 10:46 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
+2
one for the post and one for the username.
by flipgatey3 on Dec 1, 2007 11:06 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Bonds actually plays a decent outfield
Better than Cust, at any rate. He at least catches it when it's hit to him.
If the A's signed Bonds, I'd want him playing the field at least half the time.
by PaulThomas on Dec 1, 2007 12:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The thing is
that playing Bonds in the field tires him out and he has to take 1 maybe 2 days off at a time to revive. Stick him at DH and cross your fingers for Cust.
What I haven't seen discussed, but maybe it has, is possibly trading Cust. I don't know if there's a team seeking a player like him right now but you got to think that'd be selling high after the year he had last year. It's just a thought I suppose...
by Helloooo 1st on Dec 1, 2007 1:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to that
Given that Cust is making ML minimum and is under control long past his peak-perf age, though, it'd take a lot to make a trade worthwhile. Maybe as part of a really huge blockbuster, packaged with Haren or Blanton or Street?
by monkeyball on Dec 1, 2007 1:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
but we probably value cust a lot higher
than most other teams.
of course the other side is he probably won't be as good next year as he was last year... but then do we really want to go into the season depending on cust to be our best hitter?
by xbhaskarx on Dec 1, 2007 1:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Thinking of Cust, and only about him
for what it would do for him, personally, the A's should trade him to the Yankees.
I mean, of all players, he really has the "Babe Ruth look". It would benefit baseball if his picture, in pinstripes, watching from home plate while a "shot" he just stroked reached the upper deck in Yankee Stadium, circulated every other week or so.
Did you know that Babe Ruth made the final out of the 1926 World Series, won by the Cardinals over the Yankees??
Ruth was out caught stealing second.
by One won lost won on Dec 1, 2007 8:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
it was a Game 7, too
and a one-run contest at that.
not exactly one of the Bambino's shining moments.
by 67MARQUEZ on Dec 1, 2007 9:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
kind of a contradiction
He's the quintessential A, but I see your point about possibly being a face of the Yankees (Jeter and co are too well-established at this point for him to ever be THE face of the Yankees). Add to this the fact that he's from Jersey, and it does make you wonder whether or not he sells jeans.
by Cutthemullet on Dec 2, 2007 7:02 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
the talk of jeans...
and the satirical spirit of this thread a hilarious Kenny Mayne SportsCenter monologue last week...I paraphrase: "Tony Romo won't ever be Brett Favre. Brett Favre is 100 years old, likes to fish, and likes to wear jeans. He's always comfortable in jeans. He's wearing them right now, in fact, under his [football] pants."
Kenny Mayne, the best ESPN personality ever. His presence even gets me to watch the celebrity softball game the day before the All-Star game.
by Cutthemullet on Dec 2, 2007 7:07 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
forgotten words
thread...reminded me of...a hilarious...
by Cutthemullet on Dec 2, 2007 7:09 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
What about rocking chairs?
Does the entire roster get rocking/recliner chairs in the clubhouse, just to show that BB is "one of the boys, no favorites"??
by One won lost won on Dec 1, 2007 8:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Uh oh, ..no sale!!
We can't have "BB" and "BB" in the same clubhouse!
Total confusion, unless you go with "BaBo" and "BiBe".
by One won lost won on Dec 1, 2007 9:02 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
one of them will have to go by "lamar"
by xbhaskarx on Dec 1, 2007 9:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And they'll have to work out
who gets to throw Geren out of his office when he feels like it.
by Nico on Dec 1, 2007 10:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
At first I thought you said "no fire sale"
and I was thinking "Why? Because the rocking chairs will catch fire?"
This is what happens when you just glance through a thread assimilating random words.
by PaulThomas on Dec 1, 2007 11:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You guys!
IF Beane still wants Bonds ...doesn't that mean that he is leaning towards our team being a CONTENDING team next season and not a rebuilding team? Maybe if we sign Bonds we keep Haren, and Blanton. SIGN BARRY NOW.
by IM4Oakgal on Dec 1, 2007 10:33 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
right on
very good point. "+1"
by flipgatey3 on Dec 1, 2007 11:05 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
TY,,,and
Think about it...the National coverage for the A's the converted Giants fans...all revenue for the team.
by IM4Oakgal on Dec 1, 2007 11:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Or...Something to bring revenue and interest
while the team isn't good enough to contend? (Pessimist's spin - I like yours better, IM4Oakgal.)
The thing about signing Bonds is that with Kotsay/Denorfia our only CF options, you'd have Bonds, Cust, Buck, Swisher, Barton for only 4 positions (LF, RF, 1B, DH). So unless the idea is to just dump Cust, if you sign Bonds you're going to have to sit one of Swisher, Buck, Barton - and that doesn't make a lot of sense.
by Nico on Dec 1, 2007 12:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Well..
That's a drawback. But I would rather see Bonds on the team with Swish in center than no Bonds. Yes, I know Cust sucks as a fielder. But at this point? We need the pop. It's not ideal but it's been awhile since we have had an ideal team.
and I do hope that you are wrong. The Giants fans suffered enough for all of the Bay area, With Sabean using Bonds to fill the seats instead of fielding a contending team.
by IM4Oakgal on Dec 1, 2007 1:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Thing is, with Swisher in CF and Cust in the OF,
I fear every opposing hitter would become Barry Bonds. Slight exaggeration, but you can only compromise OF defense so much.
by Nico on Dec 1, 2007 1:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I hear you.
by IM4Oakgal on Dec 1, 2007 1:12 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
what if bonds and cust
both have a .900-1.000+ OPS?
the red sox play both ortiz and manny, even in the world series when they have to use both of them on defense.
by xbhaskarx on Dec 1, 2007 1:44 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hey I am with you, X.
What sense does it make to sign Barry without a Cust? We need two guys capable of consistently going deep. That's always been the way of it.
by IM4Oakgal on Dec 1, 2007 1:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
if it works for the red sox with manny and ortiz
we might as well try it out.
manny makes quite a few boneheaded plays in LF, but he more than makes up for it with his bat. and the a's need offense (specifically, power) a lot more than the red sox.
by xbhaskarx on Dec 1, 2007 1:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The issue is not Bonds and Cust
and is not Manny and Ortiz.
The issue is CF.
by rfloh on Dec 1, 2007 2:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
okay, so in the unlikely case
by xbhaskarx on Dec 1, 2007 2:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The problem is that
your comparison to the Red Sox is invalid.
Bonds + Cust do not equal Manny + Ortiz because Swisher is not a CF, and Denoria's defense is also likely to be unimpressive.
by rfloh on Dec 1, 2007 10:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Your post might have confused people, rfloh -
Around these here parts, we read the word "invalid" differently.
by Nico on Dec 1, 2007 10:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
On the other hand....
Ortiz wasn't Ortiz until the RS picked him up off the scrap heap.
by alox on Dec 2, 2007 11:43 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
yes, but ...
... not only are all of those players but Cust and Barton chronic injury risks and in need of 2 days off per week no matter what, but judicious quasi-platooning and late-inning substituting could ensure both plenty of PT and cover the requisite strategic requirements on O and D.
'Course, then, we'd have to deal with the eventual Urban column in May attacking the whole idea as an unpopular-among-those-who-used-to-start-every-day failure ...
by monkeyball on Dec 1, 2007 1:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You forgot about the five losses
We're a 71-win team with Barry.
by mikeA on Dec 1, 2007 11:30 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Barf
Blah, Blah, Blah - whatever - nothing new. Typical Chronicle / Giants fans bs. Barry Bonds will never play for the A's. Waste of time.
by NewPosterMojo on Dec 1, 2007 12:59 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
If Bonds plays next year
It will be with the A's. Book it.
by Helloooo 1st on Dec 1, 2007 1:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
if he plays, it will probably be for the a's
unless the angels trade for cabrera or santana. i'll paste my comment from the last dld:
i wonder the hold up is barry's legal problems / health of the rest of the roster, or to see if the angels trade for either santana or cabrera. if they get either one having already added hunter and garland (yeah, not exactly the same level), we might as well start trading our starting pitchers, in which case signing bonds would no longer make sense.
by xbhaskarx on Dec 1, 2007 1:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
can we really have *too many* good hitters?
nico says "you'd have Bonds, Cust, Buck, Swisher, Barton for only 4 positions (LF, RF, 1B, DH)."
dude, you say that like it's a bad thing.
if there's ANY team that shouldn't consider it a problem to have five players for four positions, it's the post-2007 oakland a's.
somebody will be injured, or suck, or sit on the bench, or get sent down to AAA, or get tradeed, or whatever. both buck and swisher were forced to play CF last year because of injuries, do we really expect kotsay and denofria to be healthy for 162 games? also, do we really expect cust to be as good next year as he was in 2007?
by xbhaskarx on Dec 1, 2007 1:37 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Right
Remember, if all else fails Barton can start the year in AAA. The Brewers did it with Ryan Braun, and now they'll get an extra year out of him.
It's not like he's likely to outhit Bonds himself, at least not immediately. The only price is a temporary defensive disadvantage.
by PaulThomas on Dec 1, 2007 2:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
strange
to think that we can be so afraid of injuries, yet also afraid of too much depth.
i'd like to have Bonds for the same reason i don't mind having Murphy the named backup to Crosby– being the 4th OF or 5th IF on the A's means half a season of starting playing time. i'm not counting on Buck for a full season at this point, and certainly not Kotsay/Denorfia. and that doesn't factor in the random slumps we're bound to see that we don't expect right now.
worse case, like you (i think) said somewhere else in the thread, is that we'd have to make late inning defensive substitutions if everyone's healthy.
i would like to see Bonds play 1-3 days in the OF every week. he is better than Cust, and it's an easy way to juggle the lineups and responsibility. although i also expect Cust to come back better in the field, as he's been doing nothing but fielding drills in the off season (right Jack?!).
by rebus on Dec 1, 2007 2:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
So who's the bitch? Cust?
Bonds isn't going to go anywhere he can't be a starter. Someone is going to have to sit on Opening Day. Having Bonds means playing him at DH or are you willing to expose him to the OF?
Or stick Swisher (or Buck) in CF, place Cust in LF and bash to your heart's content.
by grover on Dec 1, 2007 3:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
personally, i start with swisher or buck in CF
i expect nothing from kotsay and i don't know much about denofria. are we even sure one of those two will be ready by opening day?
by xbhaskarx on Dec 1, 2007 3:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Denorfia is projected to be ready
TJS doesn't take as long to recover from for position players. He was already throwing and hitting (in a controlled fashion) before the end of the '07 season.
Kotsay was theoretically resting more than rehabbing per se, so whether he's ready or not depends on whether he's actually able to play baseball anymore.
by PaulThomas on Dec 1, 2007 5:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Thing is, if Cust won't be as good
as he was in 2008, you'll wind up giving a lot of playing time to a lousy OFer who isn't hitting as well as you hoped. I guess my problem isn't so much "7 guys for 5 slots) as it is that two of them (Bonds, Cust) are bad fielders - one of whom is not proven as a consistent hitter, two of them (Swisher, Buck) are not good CFers, two of them (Kotsay, Denorfia) are CFers - but are of unknown value as 2008 CFers...
...In other words, whatever combination is out there you are giving up a lot to get what you want to get. You either have putrid OF defense and Kotsay whining on the bench or you have Barton or Buck using service time to play part-time, and so on.
Unless you put Barton in AAA, in which case you have taken my latest man-crush and demoted him, which makes me cry (and hurts the offense, IMO).
by Nico on Dec 1, 2007 6:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If anyone has seen
an end-quote or an open-parentheses, could they please report to the above comment - thank you.
by Nico on Dec 1, 2007 6:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
From a fellow English teacher...
with the same affliction, that's the hardest I've laughed in a while, Nico. Well played good sir.
by notsellingjeans on Dec 1, 2007 8:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks :-}
"The same affliction" being illiteracy, I presume?
by Nico on Dec 1, 2007 8:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I was actually referring to the unicorn fetish
But yeah, that too.
by notsellingjeans on Dec 1, 2007 8:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Finally!
A pony that can satisfy two at the same time!
by grover on Dec 1, 2007 8:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If the horn is used creatively,
maybe even three.
by Nico on Dec 1, 2007 10:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe it means Swisher is trade bait!
send him back to West Virginia... well, Cincinnati, which is as close as you get in MLB,
for Aaron Harang!
Or, is Pittsburgh closer to West Virginia?
by One won lost won on Dec 1, 2007 8:43 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Sadly for this idea, if there's one player
in all of baseball that Cincinnati does NOT need, it's Nick Swisher.
by PaulThomas on Dec 1, 2007 11:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Heh
Good call. But if they added Swish, then they could have the same kind of surplus we're suddenly worried about (in this thread, anyway)...and Griffey and Hamilton might even be less dependable, health-wise, than any of our guys. Hitters, I'm talking, so Harden/Duke/Calero don't count.
Besides, if we wanted to trade an OF to Cincy, just retroactively veto the trade that sent Denorfia here for McBeth.
by Cutthemullet on Dec 2, 2007 6:45 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
You asked that question on a day...
it could be easily answered...they don't call the Pitt vs WVa college football game "the backyard brawl" for nothing...Pittsburgh's like 25 miles away, if that. Take it from someone who lives only a few hours away, and whose second-last MLB game attended was at PNC Park in Pittsburgh (I almost said last...forgot about the quite forgettable Tigers-Orioles game I saw at Camden Yards this past April).
by Cutthemullet on Dec 2, 2007 6:41 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Heh
The BCS.
Sorry, that just reminded me of it.
Heh.
by PaulThomas on Dec 2, 2007 10:10 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Cust could regress a lot and still be really good
There's nothing wrong with having a .250/.380/.460 guy on the roster, which is about where Zips and CHONE see him next year. That would still make him the 2nd best hitter on the team (assuming Bonds is #1).
I like the idea of rotation Bonds in and out of LF. If the A's want some hitting, a Bonds/Swish/Buck OF with Cust at DH is nice. Rotate in Buck/Defornia/Swish and you have great defense.
FWIW, a lot of the advanced metrics say Swish is a below average but not terrible CF, and he's a very good defender in RF, so flipping him back and forth is not such a bad idea.
by MrIncognito on Dec 2, 2007 8:56 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
A lil OT...Does a certain name keep popping up?
The Sporting News Complete Baseball Record Book and Eliass The Book of Baseball Records .
REGULAR SEASON BATTING RECORDS SET IN 2007 ML: Craig Biggio, Most times hit by pitch in a career (post-1900), 285
NL: Craig Biggio, Most home runs leading off a game, 53
ML: Barry Bonds, Most career home runs, 762
ML: Barry Bonds, Most career home runs by a lefthanded batter, 762
ML: Barry Bonds, Most career home runs by a left fielder, 725
ML: Barry Bonds, Most bases on balls in a career, 2,558
ML: Barry Bonds, Most career intentional bases on balls, 688
ML: Barry Bonds, Most seasons with 100 or more walks, 14
ML: Prince Fielder, MIL, Youngest player to hit at least 50 home runs in a season, 23 yrs 139 days
ML: Julio Franco, NY Mets, Oldest player to hit a home run, 48 years, 254 days
ML: Julio Franco, NY Mets, Oldest player to have a run batted in, 49 years, 25 days
ML: Ryan Howard, PHI, Most strikeouts in a season, 199
ML: Chipper Jones, Most home runs under one manager (Bobby Cox) from start of career, 386
NL: Chipper Jones, Most career home runs by a switch hitter, 386
ML: Jeff Kent, Most career home runs by a second baseman, 339
ML: Albert Pujols, Most consecutive seasons of 30 or more home runs from start of career, 7
AL: Alex Rodriguez, NY Yankees, Most home runs hit in April, 14
ML: Alex Rodriguez, NY Yankees, Most home runs in a season by a third baseman, 52
ML: Alex Rodriguez, NY Yankees, Youngest player to reach 500 home runs, 32 yrs, 8 days
ML: Jimmy Rollins, PHI, Most plate appearances in a season, 778
ML: Jimmy Rollins, PHI, Most at-bats in a season, 716
ML: Sammy Sosa, Most career home runs by a right fielder, 538
ML: Sammy Sosa, Most major league parks with a home run, 45
ML: Ichiro Suzuki, Most consecutive seasons of 200 or more hits from start of career, 7
AL: Ichiro Suzuki, April 29, 2006-May 16, 2007, Most consecutive stolen bases without being caught, 45
ML: Frank Thomas, Most career home runs by a designated hitter, 261
AL: Texas, August 22 (1G), Most runs scored by one team in a game, 30
AL: Texas, August 22 (1G), Most runs batted in by one team in a game, 30
AL: Texas, August 22 (1G), Most runs scored by one team in a doubleheader, 39
ML: Chicago White Sox (8), New York Yankees (8), August 2, Most runs scored by both teams in the second inning, 16
by IM4Oakgal on Dec 1, 2007 5:19 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Crazy talk
I hope you're not insinuating that Barry Bonds is a good baseball player, or that he ever actually helped any of the teams he was on.
Because that would be ludicrous.
Look, on one side of the argument you have all those numbers, all those stupid, useless statistics. Only four-eyed, freckle-faced, friendless nerds who play with computers all day, never kissed a girl, cite Spock as their favorite philosopher, and don't understand anything about grit and determination and the spirit of competition ... only those mommy-clinging misfits think home runs and walks help teams win baseball games.
On the other side, you have Bruce Jenkins, who knows a thing or two about a thing or two. He knows dew dampened outfield grass and hoarse-voiced hot dog vendors. He knows Willie Mays. He knows Hammerin' Hank Aaron. He knows just how gosh darn real clutch is, and how you never had to sell your soul to savor the game in the olden days. And he knows, beyond a shadow of a sliver of a kernel of a doubt, that no amount of "stats" can overcome the soul-sapping force that is Barry Bonds. If Bonds hits a 2 run homer, and you win 2-1, sorry pal, think again: search deep inside your being, and you'll discover a lonely, bereft, soul-sick 1-0 failure. Meanwhile, Eckstein and Erstad and Torii Hunter are winning ballgames for their teams, and they're doing it with dirt on their pants, eye black on their cheeks, and a goddamned twinkle in their eyes.
by 74mk on Dec 1, 2007 6:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
See, this is what I mean
Just write about anything, and it will be funny.
No soup for you.
by PaulThomas on Dec 1, 2007 11:32 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
another firejoemorgan writer
Last time I checked (a few months ago), that site's still not overly friendly to user-submitted stuff (not even a forum available for "approved commenters" like at Deadspin), but for this post, there would have to be an exception. I don't know if you were referring to me or not in your post above, but if you write more, I'll write more. NSJ and PaulThomas would be happy, respectively (PT probably could do without my sporadic rants that his posts inspire).
by Cutthemullet on Dec 2, 2007 6:57 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
i just about lost it at work at this last part
and a goddamned twinkle in their eyes.
thanks for writing that.
by rebus on Dec 2, 2007 7:59 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
conspiracy theory time!
Beane floated this rumor about having been closer to signing Bonds than previously thought in order to establish a baseline public perception that he's intent on "going for it" in '08, in order to maintain his negotiating position vis a vis dealing Haren/Blanton/Street.
by monkeyball on Dec 1, 2007 7:12 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Or!
He is getting the AN faithful's hopes up that he is going for it...and then he's going to drop the hammer and dash our hopes for payback for all of the times we said nasty stuff about him and his puppet reporter!
by IM4Oakgal on Dec 1, 2007 7:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
If Urban's his puppet,
then I think some of the strings must have gotten tangled.
by PaulThomas on Dec 1, 2007 11:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
in this particular brand of conspiracy ...
... Slusser is the Woodward to Beane's Felt.
by monkeyball on Dec 2, 2007 8:18 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I guess you can call ME crazy...
I am the guy who turned in his glasses for lasik surgery, who has far too many freckles for a guy with Latin descent, who had the right girl but let her get away, who is a freak for the useless stat (pre-sabermetrics) and knows their place, but who, like Crash Davis, also believes in things like the soul and the hanging curveball (and might even believe the two are related), who longs for Bill King to put him to bed with an A's win on a summer evening, and despite all those things, still has plenty of friends, imaginary or otherwise.
Meanwhile the two pennies in my sofa says Barry is worth all the risks, regardless of what I may feel for the guy.
by 67MARQUEZ on Dec 1, 2007 7:15 PM PST reply actions 0 recs
Wanting Bill King to put you to bed,
feeling for Barry Bonds. I'm thinking it wasn't the right GIRL you were looking for...
by Nico on Dec 1, 2007 8:16 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
perhaps not
what are you doing later?
by 67MARQUEZ on Dec 1, 2007 9:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
What, or whom?
by Nico on Dec 1, 2007 10:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
The goat has a name?
by PaulThomas on Dec 1, 2007 11:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
yes it's Barry
sorry, thought you said scapegoat
by 67MARQUEZ on Dec 2, 2007 12:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
heh
So yeah, when does George Mitchell drop the hammer and release all those vaunted big names, anyway? Jose Guillen does not suffice.
by Cutthemullet on Dec 2, 2007 7:14 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
PaulThomas
I like the blog. You a Stanford alum? Lifelong fan?
by notsellingjeans on Dec 2, 2007 8:17 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Strictly a fan
My alma mater, while dear to my heart, plays in Division III. So I go with the local boys.
by PaulThomas on Dec 2, 2007 10:16 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
anyone know what Ray Ratto's take...
on this subject is?
by Cutthemullet on Dec 2, 2007 7:12 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
I think Ratto feels PaulThomas is a Stanford alum
by Nico on Dec 2, 2007 9:38 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
How dare that fat slob
and his sarcastic witticisms accuse me of this?
Ratto, you can't write for shit!
by PaulThomas on Dec 2, 2007 10:18 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Excuse me -
It's "big-boned and in-the-mouth-challenged" on this politically correct family site.
by Nico on Dec 2, 2007 10:39 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
on a non-family site ...
... is it "big-bone-in-the-mouth-challenged"?
by monkeyball on Dec 2, 2007 11:37 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
or on a non-family site...
"big-boner-in-the-mouth-challenged.
by IM4Oakgal on Dec 2, 2007 11:41 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Hasn't Jenkins been retired yet?
Last season the Gnats were 71-91. They were 53-63 in games that Bonds started, 18-28 when he didn't start (including 1-9 when he pinch-hit). Just having a little fun with numbers:
Gnats with Bonds starting: 53-63 = .457
Gnats without Bonds starting: 18-28 = .391
Had Bonds started every game last season: 74 wins, +3
Bonds not on the Gnats at all: 63 wins, -8 from actual
Since it would've been unlikely that Bonds would've started every game last season, let's say that his presence in the lineup was worth +8 wins. Surprise - from BP, his WARP3 was 7.0.
by doctorK on Dec 2, 2007 9:37 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
More great Bay Area journalism
The conversation was with a veteran baseball major league executive who happened to be at the same out-of-state airport terminal. We made small talk, discussing trades, free agents, the team by which he is employed and, naturally, the future of both Bay Area teams.
Sure enough, though, he eventually asked the question on the minds of A’s fans as well as many others in the sport: What is Billy Genius going to do now?
The tone was mocking, the sarcasm evident.
For there is no small amount of contempt for Billy Beane after he parlayed the success achieved from his unconventional approach into a best-selling book. While the A’s general manager became a celebrity, some of his fellow GMs felt belittled. Thus, traditional baseball types are unsympathetic in the wake of Billy’s worst season as a star.
by mikeA on Dec 2, 2007 11:36 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
a Rattoesque truth-nugget
... swathed in multiple layers of nonsensical, ignorant, counterfactual, gotta-make-my-word-count wheelspinning.
"Daric Barton ... has yet to surface in Oakland"?
Jack Cust ... doesn't exist?
by monkeyball on Dec 2, 2007 11:45 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I was referring to
the excerpt printed.
by IM4Oakgal on Dec 2, 2007 11:46 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I'm not sure it's true that he
"parlayed the success he achieved from his unconventional approach into a best-selling book"........
by mikeA on Dec 2, 2007 11:50 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
< registers firemontepoole.com URL >
Oh, crap -- I guess that makes me racist.
by monkeyball on Dec 2, 2007 11:43 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
[Beats head against wall]
Has this been sent in to FJM yet?
by PaulThomas on Dec 2, 2007 11:44 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
yeah
linky here
by doctorK on Dec 2, 2007 8:46 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
I meant the Monte Poole article
Frankly, the guy is a goldmine for pseudo-intellectual press vultures like those guys. Send them his entire archive.
by PaulThomas on Dec 2, 2007 10:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Anytime anyone asks for a book reccomendation
I always tell them to pick up Moneyball by Billy Beane. Such a great book about on base percentage.
by awesomer on Dec 2, 2007 12:29 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This thread is turning diabolical.
Even skimming these articles has pretty much shoved me to the precipice of an aneurysm. Maybe someone should post a Mike Lupica column about A-Rod not being a winner, or a teary-eyed Mitch Albom ode to courage in the face of adversity - I mean, I always wondered what would happen if my blood pressure reached seven times its normal level.
by 74mk on Dec 2, 2007 12:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
you'd choke under pressure?
by monkeyball on Dec 2, 2007 12:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
And turn only insufficiently Mexican
by Nico on Dec 2, 2007 1:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs
This thread needs
a poll. I would be curious to see how many A's fans would want to see Barry signed as our new DH. We've gone over all of the arguments pro and con now.
by IM4Oakgal on Dec 2, 2007 11:45 AM PST reply actions 0 recs
Yeah mike...
but things have changed since then. Barry's in a much more difficult situation.
by IM4Oakgal on Dec 2, 2007 11:54 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs
Maybe I should read non-DLDs more often.
by salb918 on Dec 2, 2007 7:43 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

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