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Barry Bonds: Worth -5 Wins

Susan Slusser reported the A's may still be interested in Barry Bonds:

According to industry sources, before Bonds was indicted on charges of perjury and obstruction of justice this month, talks between the A's and Bonds were further along than anyone has let on.
Even with the indictment, no one with the team has flat-out rejected the notion of signing him.

But should the A's sign Bonds? Sure his 1.045 OPS was the highest in the NL last year, but the Giants offense only scored 683 runs with Barry clogging up the bases.  And they only won 71 games, whereas they had won 72 games without him.

Star-divide

For those who don't trust numbers from a computer, here's Chronicle sportswriter Bruce Jenkins:

If Beane wants to destroy team chemistry, the clubhouse mood and any semblance of sanity by signing Barry Bonds, hey, maybe he doesn't have that much to lose. Remember this, though: Over the past two seasons, Bonds hurt the Giants more from a baseball standpoint than any steroid-related issues. Without Bonds - even if they don't make a single deal - the Giants will improve at least five games in the standings, simply because they can call themselves a team.

As a DH - as opposed to impersonating a refrigerator in left field - Bonds wouldn't be such a detriment, but let's not pretend this has anything to do with winning. This would be about relevance, headlines, notoriety. We're about to find out if there's a price tag on the A's soul.

So the A's wouldn't want Bonds because he could help them lose five more games next year, they would only want him for the headlines.

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Are you now writing for firejoemorgan?

And wow, usage of capital letters threw me off entirely.

by Cutthemullet on Dec 1, 2007 3:02 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

new stat: one Jenkins Unit of Negative Knowledge
People here actually know what a trireme is. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 1, 2007 8:06 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Now that's fantasy baseball.
Maybe the Giant team that's going to win 77 games if they do nothing else can play the A's team from 2005 that lost 100 games (or was that 90?) in an all-fictional exhibition series. Winner takes on Santa's elves.

by Nate on Dec 1, 2007 8:30 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Several things

*I wish I saw more colorado fan, bhaskar, andeux, blackpearl, blamechannel, Oakland Si, devo, mikeA, rebus, cutthemullet, and mdl diaries here.
The comments are always insightful and thought-provoking.

*The Hardball Times had an excellent piece on Bonds from a legal expert last week. IMHO, it was the most important thing we've had on the site in a while. One very interesting part - the author says he's CERTAIN that a Bonds trial wouldn't begin until after the '08 season...meaning that Bonds would be available to play all year long.

From that standpoint, his indictment made him the perfect Beane acquisition - it scared away any other potential suitor, and drove down Bonds' price tag as a result.

Brian Sabean and Peter Magowan were stupid enough to bid against themselves last year, but Beane isn't.

*Bruce Jenkins is an idiot. Allow me to rephrase - he's a sportswriter. Just another blathering piece about emotion and the lush green freshly cut grass, the roar of the crowd, blah blah blah.

You'd think these bastards would read some analysis to better understand the game (defensive statistics, sabermetric stuff, etc.) in order to, you know, do their job better. After all, they have fun, desirable jobs that thousands of people would want.

But no, that'd be too much ask. A sportswriter has the unique opportunity to educate the average fan, the guy who follows the game only in his morning paper. Instead, most of them pander to what average/common fans already believe and think they know. It's irresponsible.

We're about to find the pricetag on the A's soul. What the fuck does that mean, Bruce? This is a team that traded Tim Hudson and Mark Mulder in two days. Our GM cares about winning, Bruce.

         

"How do you strain your oblique while staring at strike 3?" -slyrus, referring to Milton's infamous final A's at-bat

by notsellingjeans on Dec 1, 2007 8:55 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

social economy of sports columnizing

Most of the guys over 45 got their jobs by being Carl Bernstein (or thinking they were being Carl Bernstein): dewivvewing the daily wag out their widdle wed wagon when they were very young, hawkin' the local tabloid on the corner wif a Cockney accent, running for the copy desk as a teen, working as a stringer in high school, etc. etc. Their positions are predicated neither on writing ability, knowledge, analytic skill, nor even any sort of privileged access to the sanctum sanctorum (I know: ew. That phrase is spoilt forever) of the locker room.

Sports columnists under 45 (and above 30) are generally j-school strivers who surf from ed board to ed board or backwater daily to backwater daily until they fail upward. Or they're ex-jocks.

In either case, they are the loyal soldiers of patronage machines -- patronage machines that are in the process of falling apart.

And this goes for non-sports columnists as well, but that's a discussion for a different forum.

People here actually know what a trireme is. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 1, 2007 9:13 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Wow, I thought I held a negative view of the

print media.  That's by far the best thumbnail sketch concerning the state of the print media I've ever heard.  

"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on Dec 1, 2007 9:58 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

and I wish that...

I saw more notsellingjeans diaries here. :-)

by IM4Oakgal on Dec 1, 2007 10:35 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yes to all of that

The best posters on AN don't contribute nearly enough diaries. This must be rectified. Come on, people. I don't care about family commitments, job pressures, academic endeavors, social pursuits ... lock yourself in a room, put on whatever music stimulates your synapses, sip some tea, and pound out a flipping diary. While I admit to being amused at PaulThomas and grover yelling at each other over whether Mark Ellis is the 5th or 8th best 2nd baseman in the league, an injection of variety is always welcome.

And while I'm on the subject, I wish the blogosphere would come up with a better term than "diary". Essay? Journal? Column? Forum? Something, anyway, that doesn't evoke visions of pink notebooks with shiny heart stickers on the cover.

Bruce Jenkins. Yeah. You've got to love that sublime cocktail of schmaltz, ignorance, and vehement sanctimony. Lazy, stupid, and not at all averse to throwing out mind-bendingly illogical assertions in service of preemptively accusing an organization of moral dissolution. Yes, Bruce, if the A's sign Bonds we will, all of us, have paid with our very souls - ownership, players, and fans alike. It is just that serious. He is just that evil. And if it does happen, we'll know for sure that Beane has been in counsel with the devil himself, for no person of right mind, on the side of decency and virtue, could possibly convince himself that Barry Bonds might help his team win baseball games.

by 74mk on Dec 1, 2007 1:22 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I want to see a fevered debate

between PaulThomas and grover over which one of them is the 5th best poster on AN and which one is 8th. For the record, Cindi is 6th and I am 7th.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 1, 2007 1:28 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

LOL

Well, they both offer a winning combination of offensiveness and defensiveness.

People here actually know what a trireme is. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 1, 2007 1:32 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

grover's ability as a closer -

someone who can be relied on to put out fires - probably earns him the nod for #5.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 1, 2007 1:35 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Hey!

Any sabermetrician will tell you that there's no such thing as "closer ability."

Do you really want to overpay for grover?

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Dec 1, 2007 1:46 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm a federal employee

We offer all kinds of tax breaks when we get signed. Don't like it? Get a lobbyist!

Yep. Warm and fuzzy... that's me.

by grover on Dec 1, 2007 3:00 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Shhh!

We're trying to convert grover into a closer to inflate his value and then trade him to Pinstripe Alley.

People here actually know what a trireme is. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 1, 2007 5:52 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You bastard!

And after I arranged for Heidi Klum to give you a flea bath!

Yep. Warm and fuzzy... that's me.

by grover on Dec 1, 2007 6:07 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

unfortunately, Heidi's a literalist

She bathed me in fleas.

People here actually know what a trireme is. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 1, 2007 6:28 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Well

At least you didn't notice that he was Ms. Klum's stunt double.

Yep. Warm and fuzzy... that's me.

by grover on Dec 1, 2007 6:55 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

What's your excuse,

oh fickle and infrequently eloquent muse?

I don't see any diaries in your "written" column.

Someone break out the straightjacket!

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Dec 1, 2007 1:45 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Alas,

I don't actually have much to say. About baseball, anyway. So I stick to the role of avid reader / occasional contributor.

by 74mk on Dec 1, 2007 2:03 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You could be like me

I have nothing relevant to say, so I make stuff up.

Barry Zito Colonoscopy

by JediLeroy on Dec 1, 2007 7:33 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You also have one of the five best AN names

Unquestionably.

"How do you strain your oblique while staring at strike 3?" -slyrus, referring to Milton's infamous final A's at-bat

by notsellingjeans on Dec 1, 2007 8:17 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I've always liked yours

My top five would go something like this (in no particular order):

notsellingjeans
monkeyball
McFood
FreeSeatUpgrade
LongLiveLangerhans

I've always had a fondness for Duke of Left Field, also.

Barry Zito Colonoscopy

by JediLeroy on Dec 2, 2007 8:36 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

grover and PaulThomas ...

... each has a methodology that indicates himself to be the 5th or 8th cleverest name on AN.

People here actually know what a trireme is. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 2, 2007 11:35 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

For the record

There was no yelling and I was right.

:-)

Yep. Warm and fuzzy... that's me.

by grover on Dec 1, 2007 3:07 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

you're too kind

i'm just trying to keep up with ya'll.

Omar Minaya is Jim Bowden's beeatch.

by rebus on Dec 1, 2007 1:49 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Thank you, and likewise...

Never need to look further than atop the recommended list for your diaries.

by Cutthemullet on Dec 2, 2007 6:58 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

In 2006, Frank Thomas

hit .270, slugged .545, and clogged up the bases. In 2007, Bonds hit .276, slugged .565, and clogged up the bases. I'd say the Big Hurt helped our offense just fine so I have no doubt Bonds would too. Unless we played Cust in the OF...

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 1, 2007 9:48 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

agree

In fact I think Bonds can move a lot better than Thomas could.  Big Frank could barely squeak out some of those doubles.  We all held our breath anytime he had to move other than station to station.  

Bonds can't move in the OF, but I think its mental.  He doesnt want to risk injury, and frankly doesn't give a shit.  

Bonds is a perfectly capable DH, he even stole 5 bases last year.  

As much as I dislike him, he would be a significant upgrade to the team offensively.

"...we don't score six, seven runs. We score three, four runs and play defense and pitch" - Eric Chavez (2006)

by pickinmachine on Dec 1, 2007 10:46 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

+2

one for the post and one for the username.

"He has no equivalent." -Paul DePodesta on Jeremy Brown

by flipgatey3 on Dec 1, 2007 11:06 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Bonds actually plays a decent outfield

Better than Cust, at any rate. He at least catches it when it's hit to him.

If the A's signed Bonds, I'd want him playing the field at least half the time.

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Dec 1, 2007 12:04 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The thing is

that playing Bonds in the field tires him out and he has to take 1 maybe 2 days off at a time to revive. Stick him at DH and cross your fingers for Cust.

What I haven't seen discussed, but maybe it has, is possibly trading Cust. I don't know if there's a team seeking a player like him right now but you got to think that'd be selling high after the year he had last year. It's just a thought I suppose...

"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin

by Helloooo 1st on Dec 1, 2007 1:15 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn't necessarily be opposed to that

Given that Cust is making ML minimum and is under control long past his peak-perf age, though, it'd take a lot to make a trade worthwhile. Maybe as part of a really huge blockbuster, packaged with Haren or Blanton or Street?

People here actually know what a trireme is. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 1, 2007 1:25 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

but we probably value cust a lot higher

than most other teams.  
of course the other side is he probably won't be as good next year as he was last year...  but then do we really want to go into the season depending on cust to be our best hitter?

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 1, 2007 1:48 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Also,

If we got Bonds, we wouldn't much need Cust, but: in 09 we'd have neither. So that and the fact that I don't think we'd get much for him makes a trade seem pretty unlikely.

by mikeA on Dec 1, 2007 2:19 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Thinking of Cust, and only about him

for what it would do for him, personally, the A's should trade him to the Yankees.

I mean, of all players, he really has the "Babe Ruth look".  It would benefit baseball if his picture, in pinstripes, watching from home plate while a "shot" he just stroked reached the upper deck in Yankee Stadium, circulated every other week or so.

Did you know that Babe Ruth made the final out of the 1926 World Series, won by the Cardinals over the Yankees??

Ruth was out caught stealing second.

"I never predict anything, and I never will." Paul Gascoigne, English footballer

by One won lost won on Dec 1, 2007 8:52 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

it was a Game 7, too

and a one-run contest at that.

not exactly one of the Bambino's shining moments.

"Baseball- like movies, newspapers, and magazines- has fallen into the hands of rich, vulgar people who neither love or understand it." - Hal Crowther

by 67MARQUEZ on Dec 1, 2007 9:22 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

kind of a contradiction

He's the quintessential A, but I see your point about possibly being a face of the Yankees (Jeter and co are too well-established at this point for him to ever be THE face of the Yankees).  Add to this the fact that he's from Jersey, and it does make you wonder whether or not he sells jeans.

by Cutthemullet on Dec 2, 2007 7:02 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

the talk of jeans...

and the satirical spirit of this thread a hilarious Kenny Mayne SportsCenter monologue last week...I paraphrase: "Tony Romo won't ever be Brett Favre.  Brett Favre is 100 years old, likes to fish, and likes to wear jeans.  He's always comfortable in jeans.  He's wearing them right now, in fact, under his [football] pants."

Kenny Mayne, the best ESPN personality ever.  His presence even gets me to watch the celebrity softball game the day before the All-Star game.

by Cutthemullet on Dec 2, 2007 7:07 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

forgotten words

thread...reminded me of...a hilarious...

by Cutthemullet on Dec 2, 2007 7:09 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

What about rocking chairs?

Does the entire roster get rocking/recliner chairs in the clubhouse, just to show that BB is "one of the boys, no favorites"??

"I never predict anything, and I never will." Paul Gascoigne, English footballer

by One won lost won on Dec 1, 2007 8:45 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Uh oh, ..no sale!!

We can't have "BB" and "BB" in the same clubhouse!
Total confusion, unless you go with "BaBo" and "BiBe".

"I never predict anything, and I never will." Paul Gascoigne, English footballer

by One won lost won on Dec 1, 2007 9:02 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

one of them will have to go by "lamar"
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 1, 2007 9:10 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

And they'll have to work out

who gets to throw Geren out of his office when he feels like it.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 1, 2007 10:22 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

At first I thought you said "no fire sale"

and I was thinking "Why? Because the rocking chairs will catch fire?"

This is what happens when you just glance through a thread assimilating random words.

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Dec 1, 2007 11:25 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You guys!

IF Beane still wants Bonds ...doesn't that mean that he is leaning towards our team being a CONTENDING team next season and not a rebuilding team? Maybe if we sign Bonds we keep Haren, and Blanton. SIGN BARRY NOW.

by IM4Oakgal on Dec 1, 2007 10:33 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

right on

very good point. "+1"

"He has no equivalent." -Paul DePodesta on Jeremy Brown

by flipgatey3 on Dec 1, 2007 11:05 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

TY,,,and

Think about it...the National coverage for the A's the converted Giants fans...all revenue for the team.

by IM4Oakgal on Dec 1, 2007 11:24 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Or...Something to bring revenue and interest

while the team isn't good enough to contend? (Pessimist's spin - I like yours better, IM4Oakgal.)

The thing about signing Bonds is that with Kotsay/Denorfia our only CF options, you'd have Bonds, Cust, Buck, Swisher, Barton for only 4 positions (LF, RF, 1B, DH). So unless the idea is to just dump Cust, if you sign Bonds you're going to have to sit one of Swisher, Buck, Barton - and that doesn't make a lot of sense.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 1, 2007 12:53 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Well..

That's a drawback. But I would rather see Bonds on the team with Swish in center than no Bonds. Yes, I know Cust sucks as a fielder. But at this point? We need the pop. It's not ideal but it's been awhile since we have had an ideal team.

and I do hope that you are wrong. The Giants fans suffered enough for all of the Bay area, With Sabean using Bonds to fill the seats instead of fielding a contending team.

by IM4Oakgal on Dec 1, 2007 1:04 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Thing is, with Swisher in CF and Cust in the OF,

I fear every opposing hitter would become Barry Bonds. Slight exaggeration, but you can only compromise OF defense so much.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 1, 2007 1:07 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I hear you.
and I saw it ...last year. It's a big glitch. I keep having a sad thought regarding the situation. The thought is this...we had so much injury bad mojo last year...we might not have to worry about too many guys for too few positions. Now I feel a little sick for mentioning the I. word.

by IM4Oakgal on Dec 1, 2007 1:12 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

what if bonds and cust

both have a .900-1.000+ OPS?

the red sox play both ortiz and manny, even in the world series when they have to use both of them on defense.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 1, 2007 1:44 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Hey I am with you, X.

What sense does it make to sign Barry without a Cust? We need two guys capable of consistently going deep. That's always been the way of it.

by IM4Oakgal on Dec 1, 2007 1:53 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

if it works for the red sox with manny and ortiz

we might as well try it out.  
manny makes quite a few boneheaded plays in LF, but he more than makes up for it with his bat.  and the a's need offense (specifically, power) a lot more than the red sox.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 1, 2007 1:56 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The issue is not Bonds and Cust

and is not Manny and Ortiz.

The issue is CF.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Dec 1, 2007 2:29 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

okay, so in the unlikely case
that kotsay, denofria, buck, swisher, and barton are all healthy at the same time, pick three CF/RF/1B starters based on offensive productivity and defensive ability.  i don't see what the problem is.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 1, 2007 2:33 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The problem is that

your comparison to the Red Sox is invalid.

Bonds + Cust do not equal Manny + Ortiz because Swisher is not a CF, and Denoria's defense is also likely to be unimpressive.

ZIPS: Milledge: 466 HR, 485 2B, 2282 hits, 278-379-524

by rfloh on Dec 1, 2007 10:07 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Your post might have confused people, rfloh -

Around these here parts, we read the word "invalid" differently.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 1, 2007 10:23 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

On the other hand....

Ortiz wasn't Ortiz until the RS picked him up off the scrap heap.  

"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on Dec 2, 2007 11:43 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

yes, but ...

... not only are all of those players but Cust and Barton chronic injury risks and in need of 2 days off per week no matter what, but judicious quasi-platooning and late-inning substituting could ensure both plenty of PT and cover the requisite strategic requirements on O and D.

'Course, then, we'd have to deal with the eventual Urban column in May attacking the whole idea as an unpopular-among-those-who-used-to-start-every-day failure ...

People here actually know what a trireme is. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 1, 2007 1:30 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You forgot about the five losses

We're a 71-win team with Barry.

by mikeA on Dec 1, 2007 11:30 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I laugh

at that Hooey stuff. :-)

by IM4Oakgal on Dec 1, 2007 11:46 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Barf

Blah, Blah, Blah - whatever - nothing new.  Typical Chronicle / Giants fans bs.  Barry Bonds will never play for the A's.  Waste of time.

by NewPosterMojo on Dec 1, 2007 12:59 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

If Bonds plays next year

It will be with the A's. Book it.

"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin

by Helloooo 1st on Dec 1, 2007 1:16 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

if he plays, it will probably be for the a's

unless the angels trade for cabrera or santana.  i'll paste my comment from the last dld:

i wonder the hold up is barry's legal problems / health of the rest of the roster, or to see if the angels trade for either santana or cabrera.  if they get either one having already added hunter and garland (yeah, not exactly the same level), we might as well start trading our starting pitchers, in which case signing bonds would no longer make sense.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 1, 2007 1:40 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

can we really have *too many* good hitters?

nico says "you'd have Bonds, Cust, Buck, Swisher, Barton for only 4 positions (LF, RF, 1B, DH)."

dude, you say that like it's a bad thing.  
if there's ANY team that shouldn't consider it a problem to have five players for four positions, it's the post-2007 oakland a's.
somebody will be injured, or suck, or sit on the bench, or get sent down to AAA, or get tradeed, or whatever.  both buck and swisher were forced to play CF last year because of injuries, do we really expect kotsay and denofria to be healthy for 162 games?  also, do we really expect cust to be as good next year as he was in 2007?

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 1, 2007 1:37 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Right

Remember, if all else fails Barton can start the year in AAA. The Brewers did it with Ryan Braun, and now they'll get an extra year out of him.

It's not like he's likely to outhit Bonds himself, at least not immediately. The only price is a temporary defensive disadvantage.

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Dec 1, 2007 2:03 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

strange

to think that we can be so afraid of injuries, yet also afraid of too much depth.

i'd like to have Bonds for the same reason i don't mind having Murphy the named backup to Crosby– being the 4th OF or 5th IF on the A's means half a season of starting playing time. i'm not counting on Buck for a full season at this point, and certainly not Kotsay/Denorfia. and that doesn't factor in the random slumps we're bound to see that we don't expect right now.

worse case, like you (i think) said somewhere else in the thread, is that we'd have to make late inning defensive substitutions if everyone's healthy.

i would like to see Bonds play 1-3 days in the OF every week. he is better than Cust, and it's an easy way to juggle the lineups and responsibility. although i also expect Cust to come back better in the field, as he's been doing nothing but fielding drills in the off season (right Jack?!).

Omar Minaya is Jim Bowden's beeatch.

by rebus on Dec 1, 2007 2:05 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

So who's the bitch? Cust?

Bonds isn't going to go anywhere he can't be a starter. Someone is going to have to sit on Opening Day. Having Bonds means playing him at DH or are you willing to expose him to the OF?

Or stick Swisher (or Buck) in CF, place Cust in LF and bash to your heart's content.

Yep. Warm and fuzzy... that's me.

by grover on Dec 1, 2007 3:06 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

personally, i start with swisher or buck in CF

i expect nothing from kotsay and i don't know much about denofria.  are we even sure one of those two will be ready by opening day?

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 1, 2007 3:18 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Denorfia is projected to be ready

TJS doesn't take as long to recover from for position players. He was already throwing and hitting (in a controlled fashion) before the end of the '07 season.

Kotsay was theoretically resting more than rehabbing per se, so whether he's ready or not depends on whether he's actually able to play baseball anymore.

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Dec 1, 2007 5:42 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Thing is, if Cust won't be as good

as he was in 2008, you'll wind up giving a lot of playing time to a lousy OFer who isn't hitting as well as you hoped. I guess my problem isn't so much "7 guys for 5 slots) as it is that two of them (Bonds, Cust) are bad fielders - one of whom is not proven as a consistent hitter, two of them (Swisher, Buck) are not good CFers, two of them (Kotsay, Denorfia) are CFers - but are of unknown value as 2008 CFers...

...In other words, whatever combination is out there you are giving up a lot to get what you want to get. You either have putrid OF defense and Kotsay whining on the bench or you have Barton or Buck using service time to play part-time, and so on.

Unless you put Barton in AAA, in which case you have taken my latest man-crush and demoted him, which makes me cry (and hurts the offense, IMO).

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 1, 2007 6:04 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

If anyone has seen

an end-quote or an open-parentheses, could they please report to the above comment - thank you.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 1, 2007 6:05 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

From a fellow English teacher...

with the same affliction, that's the hardest I've laughed in a while, Nico. Well played good sir.

"How do you strain your oblique while staring at strike 3?" -slyrus, referring to Milton's infamous final A's at-bat

by notsellingjeans on Dec 1, 2007 8:11 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks :-}

"The same affliction" being illiteracy, I presume?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 1, 2007 8:18 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I was actually referring to the unicorn fetish

But yeah, that too.

"How do you strain your oblique while staring at strike 3?" -slyrus, referring to Milton's infamous final A's at-bat

by notsellingjeans on Dec 1, 2007 8:38 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Finally!

A pony that can satisfy two at the same time!

Yep. Warm and fuzzy... that's me.

by grover on Dec 1, 2007 8:42 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

If the horn is used creatively,

maybe even three.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 1, 2007 10:21 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe it means Swisher is trade bait!

send him back to West Virginia... well, Cincinnati, which is as close as you get in MLB,

for Aaron Harang!

Or, is Pittsburgh closer to West Virginia?

"I never predict anything, and I never will." Paul Gascoigne, English footballer

by One won lost won on Dec 1, 2007 8:43 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Sadly for this idea, if there's one player

in all of baseball that Cincinnati does NOT need, it's Nick Swisher.

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Dec 1, 2007 11:29 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Heh

Good call.  But if they added Swish, then they could have the same kind of surplus we're suddenly worried about (in this thread, anyway)...and Griffey and Hamilton might even be less dependable, health-wise, than any of our guys.  Hitters, I'm talking, so Harden/Duke/Calero don't count.

Besides, if we wanted to trade an OF to Cincy, just retroactively veto the trade that sent Denorfia here for McBeth.

by Cutthemullet on Dec 2, 2007 6:45 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You asked that question on a day...

it could be easily answered...they don't call the Pitt vs WVa college football game "the backyard brawl" for nothing...Pittsburgh's like 25 miles away, if that.  Take it from someone who lives only a few hours away, and whose second-last MLB game attended was at PNC Park in Pittsburgh (I almost said last...forgot about the quite forgettable Tigers-Orioles game I saw at Camden Yards this past April).

by Cutthemullet on Dec 2, 2007 6:41 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Heh

The BCS.

Sorry, that just reminded me of it.

Heh.

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Dec 2, 2007 10:10 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Cust could regress a lot and still be really good

There's nothing wrong with having a .250/.380/.460 guy on the roster, which is about where Zips and CHONE see him next year. That would still make him the 2nd best hitter on the team (assuming Bonds is #1).

I like the idea of rotation Bonds in and out of LF. If the A's want some hitting, a Bonds/Swish/Buck OF with Cust at DH is nice. Rotate in Buck/Defornia/Swish and you have great defense.

FWIW, a lot of the advanced metrics say Swish is a below average but not terrible CF, and he's a very good defender in RF, so flipping him back and forth is not such a bad idea.

by MrIncognito on Dec 2, 2007 8:56 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

A lil OT...Does a certain name keep popping up?

The Sporting News Complete Baseball Record Book and Eliass The Book of Baseball Records .
REGULAR SEASON BATTING RECORDS SET IN 2007
ML: Craig Biggio, Most times hit by pitch in a career (post-1900), 285

NL: Craig Biggio, Most home runs leading off a game, 53

ML: Barry Bonds, Most career home runs, 762

ML: Barry Bonds, Most career home runs by a lefthanded batter, 762

ML: Barry Bonds, Most career home runs by a left fielder, 725

ML: Barry Bonds, Most bases on balls in a career, 2,558

ML: Barry Bonds, Most career intentional bases on balls, 688

ML: Barry Bonds, Most seasons with 100 or more walks, 14

ML: Prince Fielder, MIL, Youngest player to hit at least 50 home runs in a season, 23 yrs 139 days

ML: Julio Franco, NY Mets, Oldest player to hit a home run, 48 years, 254 days

ML: Julio Franco, NY Mets, Oldest player to have a run batted in, 49 years, 25 days

ML: Ryan Howard, PHI, Most strikeouts in a season, 199

ML: Chipper Jones, Most home runs under one manager (Bobby Cox) from start of career, 386

NL: Chipper Jones, Most career home runs by a switch hitter, 386

ML: Jeff Kent, Most career home runs by a second baseman, 339

ML: Albert Pujols, Most consecutive seasons of 30 or more home runs from start of career, 7

AL: Alex Rodriguez, NY Yankees, Most home runs hit in April, 14

ML: Alex Rodriguez, NY Yankees, Most home runs in a season by a third baseman, 52

ML: Alex Rodriguez, NY Yankees, Youngest player to reach 500 home runs, 32 yrs, 8 days

ML: Jimmy Rollins, PHI, Most plate appearances in a season, 778

ML: Jimmy Rollins, PHI, Most at-bats in a season, 716

ML: Sammy Sosa, Most career home runs by a right fielder, 538

ML: Sammy Sosa, Most major league parks with a home run, 45

ML: Ichiro Suzuki, Most consecutive seasons of 200 or more hits from start of career, 7

AL: Ichiro Suzuki, April 29, 2006-May 16, 2007, Most consecutive stolen bases without being caught, 45

ML: Frank Thomas, Most career home runs by a designated hitter, 261

AL: Texas, August 22 (1G), Most runs scored by one team in a game, 30

AL: Texas, August 22 (1G), Most runs batted in by one team in a game, 30

AL: Texas, August 22 (1G), Most runs scored by one team in a doubleheader, 39

ML: Chicago White Sox (8), New York Yankees (8), August 2, Most runs scored by both teams in the second inning, 16

by IM4Oakgal on Dec 1, 2007 5:19 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Crazy talk

I hope you're not insinuating that Barry Bonds is a good baseball player, or that he ever actually helped any of the teams he was on.

Because that would be ludicrous.

Look, on one side of the argument you have all those numbers, all those stupid, useless statistics. Only four-eyed, freckle-faced, friendless nerds who play with computers all day, never kissed a girl, cite Spock as their favorite philosopher, and don't understand anything about grit and determination and the spirit of competition ... only those mommy-clinging misfits think home runs and walks help teams win baseball games.

On the other side, you have Bruce Jenkins, who knows a thing or two about a thing or two. He knows dew dampened outfield grass and hoarse-voiced hot dog vendors. He knows Willie Mays. He knows Hammerin' Hank Aaron. He knows just how gosh darn real clutch is, and how you never had to sell your soul to savor the game in the olden days. And he knows, beyond a shadow of a sliver of a kernel of a doubt, that no amount of "stats" can overcome the soul-sapping force that is Barry Bonds. If Bonds hits a 2 run homer, and you win 2-1, sorry pal, think again: search deep inside your being, and you'll discover a lonely, bereft, soul-sick 1-0 failure. Meanwhile, Eckstein and Erstad and Torii Hunter are winning ballgames for their teams, and they're doing it with dirt on their pants, eye black on their cheeks, and a goddamned twinkle in their eyes.

by 74mk on Dec 1, 2007 6:45 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

See, this is what I mean

Just write about anything, and it will be funny.

No soup for you.

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Dec 1, 2007 11:32 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

another firejoemorgan writer

Last time I checked (a few months ago), that site's still not overly friendly to user-submitted stuff (not even a forum available for "approved commenters" like at Deadspin), but for this post, there would have to be an exception.  I don't know if you were referring to me or not in your post above, but if you write more, I'll write more.  NSJ and PaulThomas would be happy, respectively (PT probably could do without my sporadic rants that his posts inspire).  

by Cutthemullet on Dec 2, 2007 6:57 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

i just about lost it at work at this last part&#

and a goddamned twinkle in their eyes.

thanks for writing that.

Omar Minaya is Jim Bowden's beeatch.

by rebus on Dec 2, 2007 7:59 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

conspiracy theory time!

Beane floated this rumor about having been closer to signing Bonds than previously thought in order to establish a baseline public perception that he's intent on "going for it" in '08, in order to maintain his negotiating position vis a vis dealing Haren/Blanton/Street.

People here actually know what a trireme is. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 1, 2007 7:12 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Or!

He is getting the AN faithful's hopes up that he is going for it...and then he's going to drop the hammer and dash our hopes for payback for all of the times we said nasty stuff about him and his puppet reporter!

by IM4Oakgal on Dec 1, 2007 7:16 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

If Urban's his puppet,

then I think some of the strings must have gotten tangled.

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Dec 1, 2007 11:33 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

in this particular brand of conspiracy ...

... Slusser is the Woodward to Beane's Felt.

People here actually know what a trireme is. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 2, 2007 8:18 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I guess you can call ME crazy...

I am the guy who turned in his glasses for lasik surgery, who has far too many freckles for a guy with Latin descent, who had the right girl but let her get away, who is a freak for the useless stat (pre-sabermetrics) and knows their place, but who, like Crash Davis, also believes in things like the soul and the hanging curveball (and might even believe the two are related), who longs for Bill King to put him to bed with an A's win on a summer evening, and despite all those things, still has plenty of friends, imaginary or otherwise.

Meanwhile the two pennies in my sofa says Barry is worth all the risks, regardless of what I may feel for the guy.

"Baseball- like movies, newspapers, and magazines- has fallen into the hands of rich, vulgar people who neither love or understand it." - Hal Crowther

by 67MARQUEZ on Dec 1, 2007 7:15 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Wanting Bill King to put you to bed,

feeling for Barry Bonds. I'm thinking it wasn't the right GIRL you were looking for...

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 1, 2007 8:16 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

perhaps not

what are you doing later?

"Baseball- like movies, newspapers, and magazines- has fallen into the hands of rich, vulgar people who neither love or understand it." - Hal Crowther

by 67MARQUEZ on Dec 1, 2007 9:26 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

What, or whom?
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 1, 2007 10:20 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The goat has a name?
cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Dec 1, 2007 11:37 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

yes it's Barry

sorry, thought you said scapegoat

"Baseball- like movies, newspapers, and magazines- has fallen into the hands of rich, vulgar people who neither love or understand it." - Hal Crowther

by 67MARQUEZ on Dec 2, 2007 12:24 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

heh

So yeah, when does George Mitchell drop the hammer and release all those vaunted big names, anyway?  Jose Guillen does not suffice.

by Cutthemullet on Dec 2, 2007 7:14 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

PaulThomas

I like the blog.  You a Stanford alum? Lifelong fan?

"How do you strain your oblique while staring at strike 3?" -slyrus, referring to Milton's infamous final A's at-bat

by notsellingjeans on Dec 2, 2007 8:17 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Strictly a fan

My alma mater, while dear to my heart, plays in Division III. So I go with the local boys.

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Dec 2, 2007 10:16 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I think Ratto feels PaulThomas is a Stanford alum
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 2, 2007 9:38 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

How dare that fat slob

and his sarcastic witticisms accuse me of this?

Ratto, you can't write for shit!

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Dec 2, 2007 10:18 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Excuse me -

It's "big-boned and in-the-mouth-challenged" on this politically correct family site.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 2, 2007 10:39 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

on a non-family site ...

... is it "big-bone-in-the-mouth-challenged"?

People here actually know what a trireme is. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 2, 2007 11:37 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

or on a non-family site...

"big-boner-in-the-mouth-challenged.

by IM4Oakgal on Dec 2, 2007 11:41 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Hasn't Jenkins been retired yet?

Last season the Gnats were 71-91. They were 53-63 in games that Bonds started, 18-28 when he didn't start (including 1-9 when he pinch-hit). Just having a little fun with numbers:

Gnats with Bonds starting: 53-63 = .457
Gnats without Bonds starting: 18-28 = .391
Had Bonds started every game last season: 74 wins, +3
Bonds not on the Gnats at all: 63 wins, -8 from actual
Since it would've been unlikely that Bonds would've started every game last season, let's say that his presence in the lineup was worth +8 wins. Surprise - from BP, his WARP3 was 7.0.

"Evidently, a large number of people said, 'We really need more vermin at the ballpark, Artie.'" - Nick, 10/7/07

by doctorK on Dec 2, 2007 9:37 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

More great Bay Area journalism

   The conversation was with a veteran baseball major league executive who happened to be at the same out-of-state airport terminal. We made small talk, discussing trades, free agents, the team by which he is employed and, naturally, the future of both Bay Area teams.

   Sure enough, though, he eventually asked the question on the minds of A’s fans as well as many others in the sport: What is Billy Genius going to do now?

   The tone was mocking, the sarcasm evident.

   For there is no small amount of contempt for Billy Beane after he parlayed the success achieved from his unconventional approach into a best-selling book. While the A’s general manager became a celebrity, some of his fellow GMs felt belittled. Thus, traditional baseball types are unsympathetic in the wake of Billy’s worst season as a star.

http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/...

by mikeA on Dec 2, 2007 11:36 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

a Rattoesque truth-nugget

... swathed in multiple layers of nonsensical, ignorant, counterfactual, gotta-make-my-word-count wheelspinning.

"Daric Barton ... has yet to surface in Oakland"?

Jack Cust ... doesn't exist?

People here actually know what a trireme is. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 2, 2007 11:45 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not sure it's true that he

"parlayed the success he achieved from his unconventional approach into a best-selling book"........

by mikeA on Dec 2, 2007 11:50 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

< registers firemontepoole.com URL >

Oh, crap -- I guess that makes me racist.

People here actually know what a trireme is. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 2, 2007 11:43 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

[Beats head against wall]

Has this been sent in to FJM yet?

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Dec 2, 2007 11:44 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

yeah

linky here

"Evidently, a large number of people said, 'We really need more vermin at the ballpark, Artie.'" - Nick, 10/7/07

by doctorK on Dec 2, 2007 8:46 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I meant the Monte Poole article

Frankly, the guy is a goldmine for pseudo-intellectual press vultures like those guys. Send them his entire archive.

cardinalprecepts.blogspot.com

by PaulThomas on Dec 2, 2007 10:26 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Anytime anyone asks for a book reccomendation

I always tell them to pick up Moneyball by Billy Beane. Such a great book about on base percentage.

by awesomer on Dec 2, 2007 12:29 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

This thread is turning diabolical.

Even skimming these articles has pretty much shoved me to the precipice of an aneurysm. Maybe someone should post a Mike Lupica column about A-Rod not being a winner, or a teary-eyed Mitch Albom ode to courage in the face of adversity - I mean, I always wondered what would happen if my blood pressure reached seven times its normal level.

by 74mk on Dec 2, 2007 12:37 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

you'd choke under pressure?
People here actually know what a trireme is. @('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 2, 2007 12:51 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

And turn only insufficiently Mexican
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 2, 2007 1:04 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

This thread needs

a poll. I would be curious to see how many A's fans would want to see Barry signed as our new DH. We've gone over all of the arguments pro and con now.

by IM4Oakgal on Dec 2, 2007 11:45 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

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