A's fire three coaches
who saw this one coming?
Brad Fischer, Rene Lachemann and Bob Schaefer have all been let go. Beane did say when he extended Geren's contract that he wanted Geren to have a chance to choose his own coaches...so the older ones (who weren't hired last year, except for Curt Young) got canned. Then again, Bob Schaeffer was also hired last year, but I think the hiring process was well underway before Geren was named manager.
Wonder if Geren had any input on hiring of the Two Tys last season?

apparently Lachemann and Fischer aren't taking it well, but Schaefer is glad:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2007/10/07/SPV8SLK1M.DTL
Schaeffer said that not enough use was made of the coaches' expertise...guess he didn't feel his opinions were fully appreciated? (updated link that includes tidbit about Buckley not returning as bullpen catcher)
link to Susan Slusser's Drumbeat blog entry, posted on the Chron website with a couple of dozen comments:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfgate/detail?blogid=21&entry_id=20936
Meanwhile, the A's official announcement concentrates on the fact that the two Ty's will be returning. The firing of Lache, Fischer, and Schaeffer are just sort of slipped in there.
Mychael Urban quotes Geren as saying that these were "organizational decisions"
(Actually, I'd be surprised if Beane wasn't the one who decided on the coaching staff.)
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bob schaefer
has some connection to geren, i doubt he was brought in independent of the geren hire. he was probably hired to help geren get settled in, and now that geren has had the job for a year shaefer has served his purpose.
also the a's usually have a new bench coach every year, so this isn't surprising.
will the job go to tony defrancesca (i probably spelled that wrong)? i hope not quite yet, unless he's about to be hired for an mlb job elsewhere and it's to keep him with the organization.
by xbhaskarx on Oct 6, 2007 6:05 PM PDT 0 recs
from the drumbeat:
"Lachemann and Fischer both said Saturday they were surprised"
"Geren did help hire Schaefer"
by xbhaskarx on
Oct 6, 2007 6:08 PM PDT
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Lache?
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!
by Jennifer on Oct 6, 2007 6:07 PM PDT 0 recs
Now I'm for sure not going to ST.
by Jennifer on
Oct 6, 2007 7:27 PM PDT
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and WTF?? NO FISCHER?!
i'm shocked!
i expect to see Tony De up then!!
by gotgreen on
Oct 6, 2007 7:21 PM PDT
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I'm sad for Brad Fischer
I knew him briefly during my time in the A's organization and he was not only a very nice guy but he also had so much tenure with Oakland that this firing seems disloyal to his many, many years of service. And Lach was popular within the organization; not sure why it was deemed necessary to let him go. Schaefer, at least, was relatively new.
So they're gone and Larry Davis is "promoted". So far so...ludicrous?
by Nico on Oct 6, 2007 7:38 PM PDT 0 recs
I agree.
I consider Fischy my buddy and I will miss him greatly. A genuinely nice guy, loyal, and baseball savvy. I really am shocked and saddened he was fired. I can't believe Lach has been fired, either. I can't believe either of those. I'm seriously stunned right now. I thought the Larry Davis faux-promotion was bad but this is upsetting. I hope these changes aren't a preview of what's to come when it comes to the players. Ugh.
by Christine on
Oct 6, 2007 7:56 PM PDT
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I sort of hope it is
If the Vets (cough-crosby-kotsay-cough) realize that they might not quite have the job security they think they have, maybe they might perform a bit better. Or maybe we'll be able to get rid of them and replace them with someone who will.
Come on Billy, bring us Fukudome!
by Zonis on
Oct 6, 2007 8:01 PM PDT
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the way things are going, we'll probably get...
...Tie Domi.

by Ozzz on
Oct 7, 2007 12:36 PM PDT
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Your view on Davis and your views on loyalty
are incompatible.
by salb918 on
Oct 6, 2007 9:27 PM PDT
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Hey.
They already named a section of the stadium after him, no need to go crazy with loyalty.
(And before anyone corrects me; yes, I know. It's a joke. Because he's fat.)
by Ozzz on
Oct 7, 2007 12:37 PM PDT
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I thought Mt. Davis
Was the name of Larry Davis' big gut.
by billyball1981 on
Oct 7, 2007 4:25 PM PDT
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So why didn't OaklandA23 bring us this news?
by Englishmajor on Oct 6, 2007 7:51 PM PDT 0 recs
lache??
by xbhaskarx on
Oct 6, 2007 10:06 PM PDT
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I like the idea of Wakamatsu.
He seems pretty experienced and respected across the league so bringing someone like that on board can only help.
by Helloooo 1st on Oct 6, 2007 9:14 PM PDT 0 recs
A truly weird decisionj.
I have no idea why Rene Lachemann is the problem. I guess that's more convenient than firing your best friend. There better be some pretty good replacement hires.
by jeepers on Oct 6, 2007 10:16 PM PDT 0 recs
3rd base coach/bench coach don't matter
at all. And what makes you think anyone is getting scapegoated? When did anyone say "the coaches are deficient, so we're going to replace them to increase our prospects for winning?" Why do you even care enough about this to post a snarky/angry comment? Not only does it not matter, but none of us have any clue at all about the relative value of these guys.
by mikeA on
Oct 6, 2007 10:32 PM PDT
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ZOMG
The reason the A's didn't make the playoffs was totally because of the bullpen coach!!1
Uh... yeah, seriously speaking, I basically agree with this. Almost all the work that these guys do goes on behind the scenes-- they're not there to catch bullpen sessions and wave their arms frantically. We really don't have any way of knowing how they performed in their key functions. Although Lach did do a pretty good job in his unofficial role as Team Klutz.
by PaulThomas on
Oct 6, 2007 11:43 PM PDT
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Yikes
"Why do you even care enough about this to post a snarky/angry comment?"
Are you saying that because coaches don't really impact the A's win/loss record, and none of us know precisely what happened, we shouldn't care?
You almost sound as though you're objecting to expressions of sympathy, even. Like, if I said "Geez, details be damned, it's got to be hard to see 30 years of your life dwindle into the ether over the course of a 3 minute phone conversation," that might really piss you off.
Maybe you're just saying we shouldn't be reflexively indignant. And that is certainly reasonable - after all, we don't really know what happened.
But your vehemence seems to extend beyond that, what with all the "why do you care" and "they don't matter at all" stuff. I think this discussion is perfectly relevant, whether or not we have sufficient insight to conclude anything, and regardless of the coaches' (no doubt marginal) contributions to the A's win/loss record. Brad Fischer has been with the A's forever, and performed essentially the same function for the past decade plus; his job performance (good, bad, or indifferent) likely didn't change - rather, the direction/philosophy/who knows what of management changed. I find that interesting. And it appears the partings (two of them, anyway) were less than amicable. That's interesting, too, and potentially instructive.
So interesting, in fact, that I might even be moved to post something snarky or angry. Though only after carefully assessing the prospective relative value of such a remark.
by 74mk on
Oct 7, 2007 10:51 PM PDT
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This is a good comment
I don't disagree with what you say here, especially the third paragraph. Your 3rd P would be the ideal discussion to have here, but I got frustrated with what I consider repetetive, ill-informed comments.
My reaction was to the completely baseless idea that these firings represent the FO shifting responsibility from itself (or the players) in a recriminatory fashion towards the coaching staff, and the rehabilitation of the profoundly irritating "complaining about Geren or the supposedly deficient 'process' of hiring Geren" comment genre. It is obvious to me that jeepers (and Nico) took this diary as invitation to engage in inane carping, instead of intelligent discussion as you have done. (And I probably haven't done in this particular diary)
Anyway, I've been enjoying your comments for the last month or so, so welcome to AN.
by mikeA on
Oct 7, 2007 11:31 PM PDT
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Makes sense
Though now my idea to post a diary entitled "Why Beane's Ruthless Purge Of Loyal Innocents Will Cost the A's 9.3 Pythagorean Wins in 2008" seems less appealing.
by 74mk on
Oct 8, 2007 11:18 AM PDT
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Same reason you feel compelled to defend
a dumb decision, I guess.
by jeepers on
Oct 13, 2007 9:47 AM PDT
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Which is it?
They don't matter at all, or we don't know how much they matter?
I have no idea why you hate me so much, or that you think my ideas are invalid, because they're not. The pomposity sure is cute, though.
If we're not replacing them to increase our chances of winning, then why are we replacing them? To increase our chances of losing? To save money? Just for fun?
Rejecting 29 years of service and one of the most respecting coaches on the team isn't a trivial move.
by jeepers on
Oct 13, 2007 9:58 AM PDT
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Lach..
Anyone remember/see the A's game where they had a mic on Lachemann the whole time. All I really know of him, but it was great with him talking to the announcers and hearing him talk to players and calls and all that. Funny dude.
by Shut it Down on Oct 7, 2007 12:56 AM PDT 0 recs
Buckley's gone too?!?
Slusser's article was just updated with that extra tidbit at the bottom. :(
by alamedagirl on Oct 7, 2007 2:55 AM PDT 0 recs
here's the quote, added to the end
"One other departure: Brandon Buckley, who has been the bullpen catcher the past six season, will not be back."
by OaklandSi on
Oct 7, 2007 8:57 AM PDT
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has Chavvy's brother been working
as a second bullpen catcher, in addition to pitching batting practice?
on a side note: Fischer was considered to be the toughest of the batting practice pitchers.
by OaklandSi on
Oct 7, 2007 9:11 AM PDT
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More importantly, does Chavy's brother
have a dog and can Billy fit this into his already busy dog-walking schedule?
by Nico on
Oct 7, 2007 9:58 AM PDT
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Chavez's brother
Somebody fill me in here: Eric Chavez's brother is our BP pitcher? Does he travel with the team? Talk about a nice summer job. This is news to me.
by RyanFromBonas on
Oct 7, 2007 10:03 PM PDT
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one small part of an article from April
"Casey on the mound: Third baseman Eric Chavez's older brother Casey has been throwing to the A's during batting practice for the past several days. He joined the team when it opened a four-game series in Anaheim on Thursday, in part because the A's coaching staff is hurting for healthy and capable arms.
"Eric asked me about it, and I said, 'Did you clear it with Billy [Beane, Oakland's general manager]?'" Geren explained. "He said he did, so here he is."
Eric Chavez said his brother would be available all season if needed. Second baseman Mark Ellis said Casey throws a little bit slower than most big-league coaches but explained that velocity isn't nearly as important as a batting-practice pitcher's ability to groove strikes.
"Maybe it'll help us wait on the ball better," Geren joked before adding, "He does a nice job. I talked to some of the guys, and they like the way he throws."
by OaklandSi on
Oct 8, 2007 2:47 PM PDT
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It's actually his younger brother
I think Urban made the correction in his game notes the next day
by alamedagirl on
Oct 8, 2007 4:18 PM PDT
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oh noes!
by Englishmajor on
Oct 7, 2007 9:47 AM PDT
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lach
I have had a couple chances to meet Lach twice and he is extemely nice and fun for a fan to meet. I am going to miss him.
by Athletics fan and runner on Oct 7, 2007 6:07 AM PDT 0 recs
Sounds like the A's have decided
to move in a specific direction. Geren's contract has been extended, all the hold over coaches have been let go, and the "trainer" has been removed from "on field" influence. To be fair, for all we really know Davis may have been arguing for a change in methodology for the past several seasons and is now being given a position to implement changes system wide.
Geren is almost certainly being extended the authority to establish his stamp on the team. This could be a good thing for the team. He'll probably bring up guys he's worked with in the minors and is comfortable with. What's certain is that any internal power struggles have been quashed.
So now Geren either delivers or is left without excuse. A purge of internal politics may be just what the team needs to place focus squarely back on the field and out of the locker room.
by alox on Oct 7, 2007 9:08 AM PDT 0 recs
I dunno. I never like the
"I'm bringing in my own guys" routine, especially when it means unceremoniously chucking out loyal fixtures in (Brad Fischer's words) "a 3-minute phone conversation". Smacks of power, cronyism - which the hiring of Geren already had going against it - and lack of care about human beings even if they have worked hard for you for decades- which all of Beane's moves have going against it.
It's not that bullpen coaches and 3rd base coaches are "so important" - it's more that the corporate way the team is being run, without regard to people as human beings, is utterly disgusting.
by Nico on
Oct 7, 2007 9:23 AM PDT
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And yet it seems you'd be thrilled
if "loyal fixture" Larry Davis was sent packing in "a 3-minute phone conversation."
In fact, you even criticized Beane's defense of Larry Davis's long tenure with the club, pointing out, (correctly) that tenure doesn't equal competence.
I agree with you take that the dismissals probably could have been handled better, if it really was a 3 minute call, but as far as loyalty and tenure go, you can't have it both ways.
by EastCoastA on
Oct 7, 2007 10:10 AM PDT
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No, you CAN have it both ways
Larry Davis has demonstrated incompetence, serving as a fitness role model by being obese, acting like acupucture is some new and useless technique, and holding onto 70s "best practices" as if they were "good enough now cuz they wuz good enough then". None of this applies to Fischer and Lachmann, who have, by all accounts, survived their tenure through competence, not because they have x-rated photos of Billy Beane, a goat, a chain, whip cream, and Susan Sarandon. OK, I may have made the last part up. Or confused it with me last night.
by Nico on
Oct 7, 2007 12:11 PM PDT
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< golf clap >
by Ozzz on
Oct 7, 2007 12:39 PM PDT
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Agreed
I'm not sure if a three-minute phone call is really all that bad. You hear all the time about guys getting this kind of news on their answering machines; or even worse, finding out from a third-party; or worst of all--by reading it in the newspaper.
by rubin sierra on
Oct 7, 2007 12:17 PM PDT
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I suppose it's possible that
Beane simply had only 3 "anytime minutes" left on his plan.
All seriousness aside, the fact that there are worse ways to deliver bad news, and the fact that other humanity-impaired execs have been known to use them, doesn't change whether or not a 3-minute phone call is acceptable--or whether it's ok to fire loyal, competent, and well-liked-and-respected employees just because you feel the need to "bring in your own guys," and mark your territory like a dog at a fire hydrant. Very bad message to send, IMO, and just more evidence of a bad trend in Oakland's front office.
by Nico on
Oct 7, 2007 12:25 PM PDT
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Isn't three minutes all you'd need?
Like, it's not as if the guys would want him to spend an hour counseling them on their future career options, or make small talk about the kids.
I got fired on a post-it note once. Which, incidentally, was duly ignored; I figured if they couldn't do it properly, it wasn't done. Got an extra two weeks wages out of the deal by just continuing to punch my card until I found another gig.
But I digress.
by Ozzz on
Oct 7, 2007 12:41 PM PDT
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You and George Constanza
would get along great! And Kramer, who's been known to be at a job for a while before anyone confronts him on the fact that he doesn't actually work there.
by Nico on
Oct 7, 2007 12:59 PM PDT
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Yeah, I'm not sure how that
conversation goes past three minutes. What else is there to say?
by salb918 on
Oct 7, 2007 1:24 PM PDT
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I think the idea being that it was
out of the blue--not dealt with in person at the end of the season or foreshadowed as a possibility before a sudden and surprising phone call caught a long-time employee completely off-guard.
by Nico on
Oct 7, 2007 2:35 PM PDT
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So?
Do you expect Beane to fly to Lache's offseason home and meet with him over drinks at the local watering hole? Why bring it up in-season when the primary job is to win games, not structure your organization?
I hate losing Lache, too, but I don't see anything wrong with the way he was fired, and I especially can't figure out how your view on loyalty jives with your irrational hatred of Larry Davis, who you seem to blame for Beane acquiring players with injury histories and/or the players not taking the initiative to keep themselves healthy. Your beef with Davis seems to center around his weight, his reluctance to practice a controversial "medical" technique on multimillion dollar body parts, and a (as far as I can tell) uninformed opinion on what best practices in sports medicine are.
Your larger, cartoonish (and, shall I say, incorrect) view on "corporations" and "corporate behavior" appear to color your perceptions of the current situation, which is a shame since you of all people should know that we shouldn't let our built-in biases get in the way of understanding actions and motivations.
by salb918 on
Oct 7, 2007 3:14 PM PDT
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Well.
That was (shall I say) sort of imperious.
Nico seemed to be using "corporate" as shorthand for "making bottom line-based decisions without much regard for the personal feelings of employees." Is that a perfect analogy? Probably not. But is it "cartoonish"? If you really think so, I'd have to guess that a) you haven't worked for too many (large) corporations, or b) you're not particularly perceptive, or c) you're allowing your "built-in biases" to cloud your judgment.
Or maybe d) you've just been really lucky.
In any event, I don't think it's crazy to expect the courtesy of an in-person firing after decades of service to a team/company/whatever. No one had to fly to anyone's offseason home - a sit down the day after the season, in Oakland, would have worked fine.
Or, if the decision to give them the axe wasn't but a vague twinkle in Beane's eye until just a few days ago (doubtful), and neither Fischer nor Lachemann lives in the Bay Area, then a telephone conversation, wherein the motives behind the firing were discussed in reasonable detail, would have sufficed. Can that be done in three minutes? Maybe. I doubt it. It certainly doesn't sound like Fischer really understands what happened. You might argue that the A's don't owe him anything, and I suppose technically that's true, but that's precisely the sort of blithe callousness that does, in fact, define many "corporate" environments.
by 74mk on
Oct 7, 2007 4:50 PM PDT
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Thank you, thank you, thank you, 74mk,
for putting it better than I ever could have. As for your multiple choice question, can I guess "All of the above"?
by Nico on
Oct 7, 2007 5:13 PM PDT
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But in Corporate environments, your supervisor,
or someone who could tell you that you were fired, are usually in the same building. That would be 3 flghts, to whereever the coaches live. I for one will not pay 1000 dollars to fire someone.
by theblackpearl on
Oct 7, 2007 6:15 PM PDT
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I didn't mean someone had to fly out
and ring the doorbell to chat face to face with Brad Fischer. It's just that the whole thing smacks of, "Who cares what he's done for us the last 28 years? My crony Bobby wants his own cronies!"
The point is, there are alternative ways to handle personnel than to blindside your most loyal employees with a "by the way" phone call out of the blue. How many different people have to complain about lack of humane communication, and how many people have to be jettisoned hours after they speak up against Beane, before the organization is recognized as the reign of tyranny that it is becoming - or has become?
by Nico on
Oct 7, 2007 6:27 PM PDT
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"There is none so blind as he who will not see"
by Nico on
Oct 7, 2007 7:02 PM PDT
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Oh, I agree
Do you though?
http://www.athleticsnation.com/story...
Almost all of that is either demonstrably incorrect, or completely trivial. You've been on this blog for several years, yet refuse to let objective analysis change your subjective opinions, per my comment somewhere down in that thread.
by mikeA on
Oct 7, 2007 8:30 PM PDT
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take your facts and go back to harvard
by xbhaskarx on
Oct 7, 2007 8:32 PM PDT
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I'll go back to Harvard
whenever the right lady comes along.
by mikeA on
Oct 7, 2007 8:39 PM PDT
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Yes, you seem obsessed with
that last claim, mikeA. Not sure why, but whatever. I keep hoping that eventually you'll get tired of saying it and will move on to something else - or just move on. I'm not particularly interested in "defending" myself against you (or salb918 or XbhaskarX or anyone) and don't intend to take the bait. Sorry.
by Nico on
Oct 7, 2007 9:22 PM PDT
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you don't have to defend youself against mikeA
but for anyone out there is interested in learning about baseball, there is lots of information available to the public, and some of it is even free.
based on that "9 hattebergs" thread, something tells me folks like andeux, danny, and even newcomers like paulthomas and dusty baker, do a lot more than just listen to baseball games on the radio before formulating and stating opinions, which is why they're the ones who can actually back it up with data.
by xbhaskarx on
Oct 7, 2007 10:16 PM PDT
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Does it set off any bells in your mind that
the posters on this site most familiar with baseball analysis universally disagree with your opinions on a whole host of issues (e.g. my link)? Some people would take pride in that. Do you?
by mikeA on
Oct 7, 2007 11:08 PM PDT
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Basically, the same handful of users
take issue with my opinions on a host of issues, because their (your) theoretical orientation is different from mine. Just like the philosophers and scientists, or the Freudians and Jungians, will constantly say "the other is wrong!" it's not surprising that out of thousands of users, and hundreds of vocal users, a handful will establish a "loud minority" of constant disagreement.
There are no statistical metrics for morale, integrity, trust, or loyalty, yet I still choose to hold the opinion that they are important. I choose to have opinions sometimes, even when - gasp - those opinions cannot be measured by statistical data. I believe that if you overvalue objective data to the point of not valuing intuition, observation, common sense, and the fact that people are humans and not machines, then you have crippled yourself by




