Media Rants And Raves (Not In That Order)
by Nico on Oct 30, 2007 5:45 PM PDT
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PrintJoe Morgan: What’s All The Fuss?
Sorry to speak the unpopular opinion (prepares to duck), but as someone who is awfully critical of most broadcasters, I have to say I – once again – enjoyed listening to Joe Morgan on the post-season broadcasts.
Yes, a few years ago Morgan dug his heels in too far about criticizing a book he refused to read, and if you think he’s too high on “small ball,” well ok, but that’s his philosophical orientation. And as far as his “gaffes,” you can pick out mistakes from any broadcaster’s work and then trumpet them so that they look bad.
The reality (mine anyway) is:
• His rapport with Jon Miller is exceptional and natural, his delivery personable and pleasant to listen to.
• His observation about what a pitcher is doing well, is doing poorly, or needs to do differently, is often spot on, as are his comments in general. He’s a bright guy who knows the game and speaks articulately.
Knowing that Joe Morgan has his vocal detractors, I actually listened to him this post-season trying to hear him as incompetent, buffoonish, somehow awful. I couldn’t. Perhaps those who dislike him are heavily focused on a couple things he has said long ago, I don’t know. But I think the guy is a very solid commentator. So there.
1050-AM: Are You Kidding Me???
So as many of you may not be aware, on Sunday night the game went to the bottom of the 9th with the Rockies trailing 4-3, needing a run to stay alive in the World Series…and 1050-AM just ran commercial after commercial, literally for the entire bottom of the 9th – at which point, a stream of about 15 commercials finally ended…and a voice informed listeners that they were about to hear a re-broadcast of the 49ers game. In other words, after the top of the 9th inning, the baseball game was never heard from again, nor even referred to in any way. It simply ceased to exist.
Now I’m going to assume that perhaps 1050-AM lost the ESPN feed, as this is a best-case scenario (the other one being that the engineer forgot to go back to the broadcast, and then never remembered that he had ever been there to engineer a baseball game).
Regardless, if you can’t go back to the broadcast, then someone – an actual human being – needs to get on a microphone back in the studio, and tell listeners what’s going on. 1050-AM should be utterly embarrassed for the unacceptable way this was handled. C’mon, people – didn’t anyone there have a brain? Please.
Anyhoo, please don’t go away this off-season: I have many topics I’ve been saving up, just waiting for the World Series to end. Hot Stove season is upon us – see you on the front burner!
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Joe Morgan ...
knows what's going on the field better than just about anyone. He's very good at breaking down the game.
Joe Morgan doesn't know anything at all about anything else. Unfortunately, he tends to be no less willing to voice an opinion those things. That's my problem with him.
Eye for game: yes
Mind for statistics: no
Let's not forget:
He can pick that a pitch is going 98mph and not 100mph, just by looking at it.
From the broadcast booth.
Via video feed.
And drunk... If you ask me.
I'm old enough to remember what a great player
Joe Morgan was. I also respect his knowledge of the game, and also enjoy listening to him.
Do I always agree with him? Of course not...but it would be difficult to find a baseball person with whom one agrees with all the time.
Morgan
Morgan is just awful, and I have thought so for at least a decade before Moneyball was published.
His musings on strategy (or, as devo said, anything other than the mechanics of the game) often go well beyond a "philosophical orientation" into the territory of "provably wrong."
Maybe once a game he'll manage to make an interesting and non-obvious observation about something on the field - and, yes, that's actually a lot better than many other announcers. But even then I find him insufferable, because he has the habit of repeating everything he says 3 or 4 times, and by the fourth time, it no longer seems interesting or non-obvious.
So maybe not incompetent, but definitely buffoonish and, for me, completely unlistenable. Which is a shame, because Jon Miller is one of the best.
FIRE JOE MORGAN!!!
sorry, i had to once i saw the tag, nico.
Morgan is insufferably arrogant.
(I'll anticipate the obvious rejoinder: Takes one to know one, right?)
He's actively grudging about admitting mistakes. He'll say something that's just blatantly false, and then refuse to own up to it afterwards.
He's also irritating in the same way that Billy Packer is-- he's harshly critical of players who don't deserve it and generally gives broadcasts a totally negative air.
And he's fanatically devoted to persecuting personal biases on the air. His love-fest for Sheffield is well known. His commentary on the World Baseball Classic fell somewhere in the gray area between "depressingly stereotypical" and "actively racist."
I don't hate announcers just because they're traditionalists. I actually think McCarver is kind of funny. He makes tons of verbal gaffes, but by and large he corrects himself, he has a sense of humor, and he's a good "teaching announcer" in that he explains things to an audience which, especially in the World Series, is not necessarily familiar with the ins and outs of baseball terminology. He's a genial guy. Morgan is not. He's a self-impressed, asinine jerk.
I have a theory about announcing. There are three basic skills to it, Opinions, Articulation and Excitement. For instance, Gus Johnson scores at mediocre on Opinions, but balances it out with extremely high scores for Articulation and Excitement. Dick Vitale gets an "F" for Articulation, but an "A" for Excitement. Cris Collinsworth is only average at Excitement but has great Opinions and Articulation. And so on.
Morgan scores pretty much a failing grade on all three of these.
Sheffield
That's not well-known to me. To venture a guess...did Morgan simply defend one of Sheff's controversial comments? If so, well, so did Carlos Guillen, someone who should have been presumably offended by the most recent comment. I don't know if Morgan actually did defend him there, or for say the Torre comment...I'm just wondering what gave you the impression that he's a huge Sheffield fan. If that idea arose because he was raving about bat speed or something, well, Sheff probably does have the most intimidating swing in baseball. But like I said, I'm just throwing out guesses as to what sort of comments could've been construed as comprising a "well-known love fest."
The one player he really seems to worship is Willie Mays--there's a reference to him being the "greatest of all-time" nearly every broadcast. At this point I don't know what Sunday Night Baseball would be without Morgan finding the opportunity to work that into the broadcast, right after congratulating his daughter on her latest achievements in youth gymnastics.
by Cutthemullet on Oct 30, 2007 8:18 PM PDT up reply actions
He was asked, multiple times, in chat questions
about the Tigers, and without fail, any question about them would be answered with something about Sheffield. Undoubtedly part of this had to do with the fact that he doesn't know who any of the other players on the team are, but most of it is just that he thinks Sheffield is God's gift to White America.
He also, in broadcast, said essentially that Sheffield's "commentary" about Torre was hunky-dory. I forget what moronic rationale he came up with for this, though.
Morgan:
- He has a nice voice, and that's important to in announcers, so I sort of like him.
- I agree with Devo's first point for the most part. He's pretty good at analyzing pitch sequences.
- He says an incredible amount of stupid things, and then repeats those things over and over. He also seems to not know anything about the players/teams he's watching.
pitch sequences
The analysis (enhanced by K-Zone-equipped replays) of noteworthy pitch sequences is good; the prediction of upcoming ones is better. He's pretty damn accurate when it comes to forecasting whichever upcoming pitch he chooses to forecast....
by Cutthemullet on Oct 30, 2007 8:22 PM PDT up reply actions
I knew I was forgetting something--
his unbelievable laziness and lack of knowledge about basically any aspect of today's players.
Maybe that's a subsidiary reason why the same 8 teams are always on Sunday Night Baseball-- I know most of it's about the TV $$$, but it might make Morgan look like even more of an idiot if people realized he doesn't even know what pitches Danny Haren throws.
Sunday Night Baseball
is a veritable cornucopia of baseball teams compared to Fox's Saturday "Game of the Week," which is almost certain to feature the Yankees, Red Sox, and/or Mets.
by Leopold Bloom on Oct 30, 2007 11:09 PM PDT up reply actions
A's were on SGW 4 times this year, I think
Zero on SNB.
Of course, SGW is regional coverage of 2-3 games, so there's a lot more spots to spread around.
Trust me
I didn't get the A's four times this year here.
by Leopold Bloom on Oct 31, 2007 12:21 AM PDT up reply actions
I don't know where you are
but if you're not in the region, you just aren't going to get the A's when they do regional coverage. That's just a fact of life for everybody.
No
not for Yankees, Mets, and Red Sox fans.
by Leopold Bloom on Oct 31, 2007 8:14 AM PDT up reply actions
Fire Joe Morgan
Anyone reading the Fire Joe Morgan blog knows everything PaulThomas is saying. Morgan knows nothing, makes stuff up as he goes along, has man-love for certain players like Sheffield, is a complete egomaniac, doesn't read, doesn't even follow the sport, knows none of the players, and on top of everything else, refuses to answer any question that requires him to even consider making a prediction. Every team will win, and every player will do well if they're consistent.
Knowing this, I find it impossible to listen to the guy any more. He's being paid a bunch of money and doing absolutely nothing for it, other than sitting in on a handful of games and noting placement of players.
by richwol on Oct 31, 2007 1:17 AM PDT up reply actions
1050AM
KNBR switched the game to 680AM without annoucement at 9:00pm. I was listening in my garage and didn't notice until 1 out in the bottem of the ninth.
This sort of stunt from KNBR doesn't surprise me. Did anyone else notice during the season that their commercial breaks during Giant's games would be so long that they would miss the first pitch on a regular basis. Another KNBR trick is to have a 4-5 minute commercial break, 'interrupt' it with a 30 second segment of scores, then follow it with another 4-5 minutes of commercials. Sports Radio in the Bay Area is junk ever since KNBR bought 1050AM.
While we're on the topic of bad broadcasting. FOX and TBS would only block out 3 hours in their schedule for the game (5-8). Given that the game doesn't start until 5:30 and that they take extra long breaks between innings there is no chance that the game was going to finish by 8 (9:30-10 was the average). So if you wanted to TIVO the game you had to schedule it to record the 4 half Seinfeld episodes that they scheduled between 8-10.
by bolt on Oct 30, 2007 6:36 PM PDT reply actions
And apparently also...
the 1050 to 680 switch was made without the knowledge of the Program Director, because here's the e-mail reply I received from him yesterday morning after I sent a (mostly polite but definitely complaining) e-mail to him on Sunday night:
Thanks for the note. I'll be looking into it first thing this morning. Not
sure yet if it was human or computer error.Lee Hammer
Program Director
KNBR 680 / KNBR 1050
OK, let's break this down...
If it was "human error," then a human couldn't figure out the ramifications of suddenly taking a broadcast off the 1050-AM airwaves without telling the public what was going on.
If it was "computer error," then 1050-AM has no human beings listening to see if what the station means to air is in fact what it is airing. That is, no one with a pulse is minding the store.
Conclusion: To err is human, to not air...
...Pret-ty pathetic.
Well if it was human error
I suppose the human saw playoff games start on TNT and then switch to TBS, and figured we would be smart enough to know what was going on by reading the streaming message going across the bottom portion of our radio dials. If there was any announcement of the switch to 680, obviously I didn't hear it; at the very least it would have had to be done several times over the course of a few minutes, and then at every opportunity during the 49ers rebroadcast thereafter.
We started this season bitching about the way radio stations present their broadcasts and sending e-mails to program directors; how appropriate that we end the season the same way.
That's a good point, Soaker!
The start of the season bitching led me to buy the Delay Play you recommended - which reminds of ANOTHER bitch about 1050-AM's coverage of the post-season...
Often the game would start with the radio several seconds delayed from the TV coverage (which I can't do anything about, because it's the RADIO that's delayed), only to have it suddenly get in synch at some random point around the 6th-7th inning. So if they were willing to match up for 1/3 of the game, why weren't they willing to just do it from the start?
Ach - SO many things to bitch about, so little time.
No
by pollutighb889 on Oct 30, 2007 6:37 PM PDT reply actions
Joe Morgan.
He was a great player. He's okay as a tv broadcaster. I've said before he's like a successful uncle you see at family gatherings with an opinion on everything. Only every time he makes a point, circumstances immediately arise which negate everything he said. It's comical actually.
On the whole, him and Miller make a fair tandem.
I agree with this.
The guy has some cred, playing on some great teams, winning World Series, then playing with the A's and Giants. He seems to do well with Jon Miller.
I like other announcers better, but Joe is okay.
Now, Rick "I'll tell you what" Sutcliffe.... I'd love to hear the conversation if Sutcliffe and a certain A's player got stuck in an elevator together:
RS: "I tell you what, I think we stopped"
As: "I'll tell you what, I was thinking the same thing."
RS: "I'll tell you what, you push that red button there and..
As "I'll tell you what, I did that before you even asked me to push that button!"
und so weiter...
by One won lost won on Oct 31, 2007 5:46 PM PDT up reply actions
Sutcliffe always sounds to me
like he's on heavy sedatives.
Well, beer is a sedative
or at least a depressant...
a delicious, wonderful sedative ...
I'm assuming this "rave" is satirical?
Joe Morgan is just plain horrible. We're talking about a guy that during game three said the Rockies got back in the game by "being aggressive on the basepaths" right after Matt Holliday cracked a 3 run homer...
I almost puke when I hear him call a game. I find him 100times worse than McCarver.
by Travis Buck Nuckin on Oct 30, 2007 7:08 PM PDT reply actions
Nope. Totally sincere.
We are talking
about the same Tim McCarver, right?
This is a man who, not once, but twice this post-season, went on and on about how amazing it was that lead-off walks led to less multi-run innings than lead-off home runs. It's inexplicable how every big baseball game is seemingly announced by a man who is not only baffled by this, but is so dense that he feels the need to continually share this information with a nationwide audience. It is only a theory of mine, but I'm going to assume that someone finally took the brave step of alerting Mr. McCarver that he was appearing to be a complete and total moron after the second tirade.
And while Morgan's pompous attitude is somewhat annoying, his rapport with and the mere presence of Jon Miller is oodles better (and that's a quantifiable statistic) than McCarver and Joe Buck. Both of them prompt me into throwing things at the television.
by Leopold Bloom on Oct 30, 2007 9:56 PM PDT up reply actions
To me, Tim McCarver is the standard
for what a young aspiring broadcaster should try NOT to be: Annoying, child-like, unprofessional sounding, and just plain ol' dumb, but without any offsetting redeeming features. Just irritating, nothing more.
+1
and he doesn't bathe regularly either.
Or so I've heard.
by Leopold Bloom on Oct 30, 2007 10:05 PM PDT up reply actions
Wait
are you talking about Tim McCarver or Joe Morgan...
by Leopold Bloom on Oct 30, 2007 11:07 PM PDT up reply actions
Morgan
I was trying to come up with negative adjectives to describe qualities opposite to those of McCarver. I wasn't able to think of one for "dumb", since both of them are kind of dumb.
kind of?
And I think McCarver is geriatric, pompous and smug and has the potential to be racist. Simply because we don't know he is doesn't mean we can assume he is not. He probably segregates his Dots...
by Leopold Bloom on Oct 31, 2007 12:30 AM PDT up reply actions
The only time I *really* dislike JM...
It is true that he is very insightful, probably moreso than he is derivative, but in a tv announcer I would prefer brevity as opposed to hearing something over and over again.
I haven't listened to him very often on the radio, so maybe his style fits that medium more than I believe it fits tv.
I don't think he does radio broadcasts...
Also, I equate brevity in sports announcing with Pat Summerall, and I thought he was perhaps the worst play-by-play guy I'd ever heard, so I can't really agree with you there.
by Cutthemullet on Oct 30, 2007 8:27 PM PDT up reply actions
He and Jon Miller
did the radio World Series this year.
by Leopold Bloom on Oct 30, 2007 10:06 PM PDT up reply actions
It's a low bar
The quality of ex-player guys doing color has declined pretty much across the board over the past 10-15 years. The lemming-ish behavior of producers has brought things crashing down to the lowest common denominator..."You have a guy who makes strident statements without support and his ratings are up...I'll get a guy who makes outrageous statements which defy common sense, and we'll kill!"
By the standard of the day I more or less agree, Nico. Morgan has a few insightful things to say, and if you chalk up the pig-headed old-school chips on his shoulder as his "shtick," then he's not so much worse than some color guys, and better than many.
That said, as I write in Morgan's defense an earthquake has shaken me here in Berkeley. I better not say something nice about McCarver, or lightening will crash down on my head.
by FreeSeatUpgrade on Oct 30, 2007 8:08 PM PDT reply actions
Oh, and BTW
The City of Oakland is fixin to declare a Joe Morgan Day. I'll have more on this in a DLD coming near you.
by FreeSeatUpgrade on Oct 30, 2007 8:08 PM PDT up reply actions
lightening?
Are you in a maternity ward?
I dig the sig.
by Cutthemullet on Oct 30, 2007 8:37 PM PDT up reply actions
I just entered the sig into Yahoo search
and the first result was AN's game thread from June 16th. So not much help locating the reference there.
by Cutthemullet on Oct 30, 2007 8:41 PM PDT up reply actions
It's a line from a song by X
by FreeSeatUpgrade on Oct 30, 2007 9:04 PM PDT up reply actions
Is it safe to come out yet?
<stays under bed awaiting reply>
Pretty strong down here in the South Bay
Still, the only thing to fall was my Mark Ellis bobblehead and he seems to have survived the tumble from the bookshelf.
I hope everyone is okay.
That's the answer!
Replace Bobby Crosby with a bobblehead!
couple things...
New Yankee manager Joe Girardi was very, very good doing color commentary on the YES network this past season. So there's at least one exception to the FSU rule (explained above).
Weren't all the postseason games on Fox and TNT? I didn't watch consistently, but I don't think I would've missed ESPN games entirely....
This reminded me, you know who does..
..the best between innings commentary, bar none?
Gregg Zaun, for Sportsnet in Canada. Incredibly informative, tons of inside baseball stories, great sense of humor, breaks down the game like no other talking head I've seen to date, especially when it comes to pitching strategy and batting approaches.
And he seems to love it too, being as he'll do it pre-game, and on off-days.
Milpitas was rocking!
Damn that was strong! I lived in Stockton in 1989 and that quake wasn't really strong there. Tonight was another story. Several of my shot glasses flew off the shelf, my clock fell off the wall and broke, several of my starting lineup figures fell of the shelf. Of my 17 bobbleheads only 1 fell over but didn't break. Fitting it was Giambi, roids must have worn off. Thank god my Signed Swisher, Lansford, and Bill King were OK. Trust me 5.6 feels strong if your near the epicenter.
by Mr C on Oct 30, 2007 10:09 PM PDT reply actions
Joe & y'all
First, on Joe: if I'm not paying attention to the game, I really actually enjoy having him there. His voice is really nice, sort of friendly and soothing, and as I'm often as passive-ish fan, he works well for me. It's when I start listening to what he's actually saying that I start doing double-takes.
I remember some NL game this summer in which he was asked about the Rockies' prospects, and all he could think to talk about was the humidor. Jeez, dude: do you really know nothing about the team? He really just knows very little about the game today, I think.
The other thing that drives me up a wall about him was best summed up by a comment I saw once on FJM. Something to the effect of, "You're an analyst, Joe: say SOMETHING!" He's constantly saying things like, "Well, we won't know for sure until it actually happens, but..." or just ignoring questions that are put to him in favor of talking about something else, usually something hopelessly banal.
On another, completely unrelated point, I just want to reiterate how much I appreciate the work of you and all the other regular posters. I love being able to come here every day, even in the off season, and find something new to read. You guys are great! Thanks so much for all your work.
by BerkeleyDawg on Oct 30, 2007 10:17 PM PDT reply actions
Oh my gosh...
...I can't believe I just saw this post! I have pages and pages to say on this topic!
<Ahem>
At a later date...it will come ;-)
Joe Morgan aside, it's Jon Miller that I listen..
to with a more critical ear now that Mrs. Ice Cream has pointed out that his inflections often are infused with an incredulity at even the most mundane and routine plays. "...here's the pitch...curveball!!...and it's a fly ball to left!...and caught!
Now that I'm aware of it, it's kinda funny to notice how often he does it.
And then there was this little tidbit from Carl Steward the other day:
-You don't often hear the great Jon Miller warp out at the mike, but beginning the World Series Game 2 radio broadcast Thursday night, Miller opened by saying, "San Francisco Giants baseball is on the air." Right, don't they wish.
Still, I like Miller and Morgan in spite of their shortcomings.
Now Joe Buck on the other hand...
Ug Joe Morgan
You're lucky...only his commentary is semi-decent. Everything else about him is terrible. I haven't seen him answer a chat question correctly in YEARS. He cannot form a real opinion about any subject and cannot give opinions that are based in any real facts. His only ability is to look at gametime situations and understand them...which probably shows how good he was as a player. Sure this works for broadcasting, but it's absolutely terrible for every chat or article he writes. Joe Morgan needs to stop pretending to know things and stick to his only skill. FIRE JOE MORGAN!
Let's hear it for Ken Korach
in all the rants here.
Miller is good, Ken is better, Morgan and other ex-players show they're players first, broadcasters lesser.
Thank goodness we got Ken. Hope he's giving Vince a few more pointers. He needs a better home run/fly ball call.
by One won lost won on Oct 31, 2007 5:52 PM PDT reply actions
Hopefully he's pointing Vince toward Texas...
and telling him to go back there, where he clearly wants to be, and because he's clearly not wanted in Oakland, at least by the listeners.
Morgan
Well yeah, he is maybe a tad too harshly criticized. He sometimes gives good insight, but he's mostly just stating the obvious.
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