Duchsherer to the rotation?
I know we all have been told that Justin is too valuable/too injury prone to be a starter. But according to mlb trade rumors (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2007/10/duchscherer-to-.html) who heard it from Buster Olney (sorry not an insider so could not read what Olney actually said) the A's are considering moving Duke back to the rotation. The merits of this idea are certainly debatable, but the more interesting aspect of a decision like this (if it is true) is that it almost certainly implies that Beane is thinking about moving a pitcher (or two) this offseason. This could also be seen as an attempt at a backup plan for Harden as well.
Just curious as to what everyone thinks this idea might mean regarding the future of Duke other A's players.
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My grandmother has an arthritic hip
maybe she can be the #5 starter
by jubjub on Oct 17, 2007 10:45 AM PDT 0 recs
Does she drink while drunk?
She could earn $7m.
by Ozzz on
Oct 17, 2007 11:16 AM PDT
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Wow. Looks like I drink while typing.
I obviously meant 'drive while drunk'.
Shurrup. And buy me a fuggin' whiskey, ya rat bastard.
by Ozzz on
Oct 17, 2007 11:17 AM PDT
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Actually, she stops once she's drunk
by kaweahkaweah on
Oct 17, 2007 11:23 AM PDT
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Slacker.
by Poppy on
Oct 17, 2007 11:26 AM PDT
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So what you're saying ...
is that I'm an arthritic hip away from a $7m contract?
by devo on
Oct 17, 2007 11:26 AM PDT
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with time young one, with time
by jubjub on
Oct 17, 2007 5:59 PM PDT
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And a lifetime of drug abuse away from...
by Ozzz on
Oct 18, 2007 9:57 AM PDT
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No typo there--
I always drink when I'm drunk.
by Nico on
Oct 18, 2007 11:48 AM PDT
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me three
by LAXile on
Oct 18, 2007 12:31 PM PDT
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I blogged about this this morning
I saw the little blurb on Olney's blog too.
http://athleticssupporter.com/2007/1...
Only thing is, there was no linkage, and I still can't figure out where this came from.
by Kelly on Oct 17, 2007 10:55 AM PDT 0 recs
How many pitches does Duke have?
I thought his problem as major league starter was he had problems getting outs his third time through the order. Thus he needed a fourth pitch.
by OdyMandrell on Oct 17, 2007 10:58 AM PDT 0 recs
According to MLB '06,
he has fastball/cutter/curve/changeup... for whatever THAT's worth.
by PaulThomas on
Oct 17, 2007 12:19 PM PDT
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He added to his repetoire after going to the pen
I'll admit, it'd be intriguing to see how he'd fare now as a starter, compared to when he got those scant few starts after coming up.
"No. It's Oakland."
by Kyli on
Oct 17, 2007 1:22 PM PDT
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Well I don't think...
this movie suggests that the As are necessarily looking to trade a pitcher. It is still a true fact that even with Duke added to the mix, we don't have a suplus in starting pitching to trade from. The intention I think some of us could read into it is that the moving of Duke up to the rotation means Blanton will be traded. He still is not locked up long term (and I haven't read anything recently about talks) and at the most optimistic of views, I don't think you would loose that much versus the addition of Duke and a young arm. The more logical swap would be to move Gaudin and not Blanton but I am not sure the demand is there.
I also think the OP over there is way off on saying (although he's been leading this blind path for almost two years now) this move makes Danny expendable. I think he himself realized it later after thinking out loud because as much as I like Duke, he's not a replacement for a staff leader. Danny is logically untouchable this offseason anyways with that golden contract of his so I won't waste too much ink on that thought.
Personally, I think adding Duke to the rotation just means another option at the #5 spot.
I think you'll still see a rotation of Haren, Harden, Blanton, Gaudin, and Duke. Although, as I said, if this rumor is infact true it does increase the likelihood of Blanton being moved (although I'd choose Gaudin instead).
by AsWin on Oct 17, 2007 11:01 AM PDT 0 recs
I think you're more likely to see
a rotation of Haren, Blanton, Gaudin, Duke & name your fifth starter not named Harden. And THAT may be the reason they'd try Duke out. Because a rotation of Haren, Blanton, Gaudin & name your fourth AND fifth starter not named Harden won't get you to .500. Also, if you're looking at the future, odds are you're going to look at new relief sources instead of Duke, so you might as well give him the shot he wants.
by DMOAS on
Oct 17, 2007 11:20 AM PDT
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Completely off topic
This was mentioned on Rob Neyer's blog entry about the use of Chief Wahoo as a mascot:
http://www.shelflifeclothing.com/shi...
by kaweahkaweah on Oct 17, 2007 11:37 AM PDT 0 recs
Put it in the DLD.
Oh, wait.
by Poppy on
Oct 17, 2007 12:42 PM PDT
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10/9/07?
by ArakSOT on
Oct 17, 2007 12:51 PM PDT
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I've been busy.
by Poppy on
Oct 17, 2007 12:53 PM PDT
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and the A's haven't been busy :-(
by kaweahkaweah on
Oct 17, 2007 1:04 PM PDT
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I don't like it
I think Andrew Brown should have the next crack.
His stats look ok to me. http://thebaseballcube.com/players/B...
by closetasfan on Oct 17, 2007 11:46 AM PDT 0 recs
5th starter more important
Moving Duke to the rotation could be a good move. The marginal difference between the A's setup men is not that great. But the difference between Duke and the poorly performing #5 starters this year is likely to be significant. What was the A's record in games started by Braden and Co.? It couldn't have been very good, considering the A's 5th starter often seemed to be gone before the end of the 5th inning.
by SA on Oct 17, 2007 12:34 PM PDT 0 recs
Hmmm
- Move injured bullpen guys to the rotation.
- Move injured starters to the bullpen.
- ?
- Victory!
by mikeA on Oct 17, 2007 12:54 PM PDT 0 recs
Ron Romanick = Pitching Gnome?
by Poppy on
Oct 17, 2007 12:56 PM PDT
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Ah, the nostalgia.
This was the very subject of my first AN diary some two and a half years ago.
I'm still in favor of the idea, although I don't know what we can count on from him in any capacity while recovering from back surgery.
by jeepers on Oct 17, 2007 1:10 PM PDT 0 recs
I Like Duke in the Rotation
Hey, I'll take Duke and 150+ innings than maybe 50-70 out of the pen any day. As long as he's pitching to his capacity, and stays healthy; the bullpen should be capable of picking up his old duties. Last year can't be judged fairly b/c of the inordinate amount of injuries. There's no reason why this team can't compete if everyone stays on their off season workout schedules. Good move Billy!
by Gerard on Oct 17, 2007 2:29 PM PDT 0 recs
Well I don't think...
Duke in the 5th spot is a bad thing nor do I think Meyer/Braden/DiNardo are that much of an upgrade. And, I do agree with Gerard that the idea should be entering 2008 to be competitive. It's all speculation at this point (and the original source is clever in saying that they might add Duke to the rotation) but if this is the route the As take then I think it could indicate that they aren't going to spend their resources on a 1 year FA SP. Now, that could be good because maybe they are looking at a Rowand type.
Are Meyer and Braden out of options? I think then putting Duke in the rotation would make sense to allow those two to continue to develop in AAA. And then there is the Rich Harden dilemna.. is he in the SP rotation, the BP, or on the DL? And if it is in the role of closer than that starts the countdown clock on Street until he departs via trade. Which is what I think the move would most clearly indicate and I am surprised that the OP over there didn't mention.
by AsWin on
Oct 17, 2007 3:21 PM PDT
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Meyer is out of options
so he'll be in the bullpen if not the rotation.
Braden isn't, so he'll start next year in AAA.
by PaulThomas on
Oct 17, 2007 5:05 PM PDT
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As I've Said Many Times....
....I really think that Duke should be a starter. The only reason that he went to the pen in the first place is that the A's still had the Big Three when he came up and the rotation was overflowing and Duke was just too good to not add somewhere in the pitching staff. Now that the rotation is looking thin, I say bring him on as a starter and trade for another reliever.
by may7 on Oct 17, 2007 3:29 PM PDT 0 recs
Me too
I never could understand why Duke didn't go into the rotation asap when the demand (and his health) were there. I hope the rumor is true...
by Mark H on
Oct 17, 2007 3:38 PM PDT
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What I want to know is,
does he still have the stamina? Throwing 100 pitches in a game is no joke, especially when you haven't done it in years.
I'm not saying this because I disagree with the idea as such (I've come to think that one route for finding undervalued pitchers lies in converting bullpen guys to starters), but it's something to keep in mind.
by PaulThomas on Oct 17, 2007 5:05 PM PDT 0 recs
Another way to phrase that
is, how does he pitch when he's tired? Does his cutter fail to cut? Does he lose location? Does his curve roll, instead of breaking?
Duke doesn't throw hard enough to get away with much if he loses something significant off his pitches. Conversely, his great strength as a reliever is that he could come out of the pen with great command of 3 or 4 really good pitches. That's not as big a deal if he's a starter who's expected to get through the lineup 3 times or more.
Is the best case scenario another Gaudin?
by Nick on
Oct 17, 2007 7:46 PM PDT
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All valid points--I just think
a lot of people forget (or may not know) that Duchscherer's last season in AAA, he went 14-2 as a starter without the cutter. It's not like he was unproven as a starting prospect, or like he has never proven whether he can pitch through an order 3 times, throw 90-100 pitches, etc. Moving him to the bullpen was more of a stretch (though it obviously worked out great) than using him as a starter.
by Nico on
Oct 17, 2007 8:08 PM PDT
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I think he clearly has the talent
to be a starter, and would probably be better than Gaudin like you said, but asking for all those innings seems unlikely from a health standpoint. I would put him third on the "likely to be injured" list after Harden and Chavez.
by mikeA on
Oct 17, 2007 8:14 PM PDT
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Yeah, the question is whether
it would be just the usual "out a week here, out a few days here" - which we've always endured from the bullpen, or something more substantial. On that, I really have no idea. I've never had an opinion one way or the other on which was a better health bet for Duchscherer and Harden, starting or relieving.
by Nico on
Oct 17, 2007 8:56 PM PDT
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I've always like the idea, as people
know from my previous posts. I don't see Duke as a #5 starter, frankly - I think he could easily be a #3 starter, with his fastball, cutter, and curve, and outstanding command.
The idea would be Haren, Harden, Blanton, Duke, Gaudin - a killer rotation while Harden is healthy - and Haren, Blanton, Duke, Gaudin, #5 starter when Harden goes down. Which could still be solid.
I said in a previous post that the A's "had until Harden went down to find a #3 starter." Maybe the A's are thinking the same thing, and feel Duke is that guy who can handle the #3 spot and allow Gaudin to stay at #4 where he belongs..
by Nico on Oct 17, 2007 7:03 PM PDT 0 recs
Duke's back
There is no question Duke would be a good starter, the question is will a guy who needs epidurals in his back to pitch be able to make it a full season.
by Threepwood XX on Oct 17, 2007 11:29 PM PDT 0 recs
Duke's Back and Hip
While there have been concerns about his back, it was his hip that sidelined him this year. Short of a total hip replacement this injury will be the one that will shorten his career. The fact that he allowed his back to rest (Hopefully get strengthened) should pose less of a problem for next year. Duke's got a great repetoire of pitches. His greatest asset is his mind. He sets up hitters well and knows his limitations. He has #3 stuff for the rotation. We can also be sure the A's won't burn out his arm if he's in the rotation. The days of Art Fowler are long, long gone.
by Gerard on Oct 18, 2007 8:48 AM PDT 0 recs
His hip may very well be the reason for them
to consider him as a starter. Throwing on it everyday would probably cause a lot of issues. They're likely to test him out as a starter so that it would give him a 4 day break between throwing on it. AND, if he's used as a 5th starter, they can skip him every once in a while to rest it.
by DMOAS on
Oct 18, 2007 10:05 AM PDT
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Great Point
by Gerard on
Oct 18, 2007 11:30 AM PDT
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Agreed
Having a regular routine ("regular routine;" is that wording redundant?) may actually be easier on his body than the unpredictability of relief work, even if he ends up throwing more pitches.
Come to think of it, what about converting Kotsay into a pitcher? He already hits like one.
by ozzman99 on
Oct 18, 2007 1:00 PM PDT
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Heck, if the A's are willing
to give it a go with Harden, they shouldn't worry about how well Duke will hold up as a starter. He's likely to make more starts than Harden, back, hip, and all.
by Nico on Oct 18, 2007 11:47 AM PDT 0 recs
Bets, anyone?
by Gerard on
Oct 18, 2007 1:50 PM PDT
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If the Duke gets to start, do we finally get a
SHIRT?
I am one of many (I bet) who has been waiting for a Duchscherer shirt for years. He makes the All-Star team, but we get no shirt. He is the nicest guy ever--signs and signs and signs at Fanfest. Does lots of charity stuff especially for MS. So here's hoping we get a shirt whether he starts or not.
I happen to think he was one of the most important missing players from 2007. How many times did I wish to see him coming out of the bullpen in the 7th or 8th inning. Can't wait for his return.
by oaklandcrazy on Oct 18, 2007 1:01 PM PDT 0 recs
Keep in mind
That Jose Garcia can start games as well
by GusanoQuemador on Oct 18, 2007 3:19 PM PDT 0 recs
True, but he's unlikely to be a factor
before the All-Star break.
by PaulThomas on
Oct 18, 2007 3:36 PM PDT
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which is perfect.
Harden for the 1st month. Duke for the next month & half. Harden for a week. Scrub for two weeks. Duke a week. Garcia for the rest of the year.
by DMOAS on
Oct 18, 2007 3:53 PM PDT
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Scrub for two weeks?
So I'm not the only one who suffers from OCD!
by Nico on
Oct 18, 2007 4:43 PM PDT
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I like how we not only think about
but actually predict that the A's will need four pitchers to fill one slot in the rotation for the entire year.
I think that tone of mixed sarcastic amusement and depressed resignation is pretty much the guiding motif of this website.
by PaulThomas on
Oct 18, 2007 5:15 PM PDT
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"sarcastic amusement and depressed resignation"
"What is 'George Steinbrenner and Joe Torre'?"
by Nico on
Oct 18, 2007 5:18 PM PDT
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