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As A's Foundation is Chipped, Do We Remain Whole?

As Oakland A's fans, we've grown accustomed to change. For us to assume we could pull a Rip Van Winkle and immediately fell asleep at the conclusion of one season, only to arise on Opening Day, and expect to see the same roster in both games, would be beyond naive. Despite this, into my twentieth year as an A's fan, I am still struck by the amount of turnover we see on an annual basis, and how as fans, we accept it and hold onto those familiar faces left behind who represent hope for the green and gold.

Yesterday, we saw Kirk Saarloos shipped out of town, in exchange for a prospect and more hope. Most of us saw Saarloos as a nice to have, flexible commodity who could both start and come out of the bullpen, but none of us really saw having him on the roster as defining the team, or see that his leaving marks the death-knell of the 2007 season. Simply put, we can take it. We trust the team's ownership has a plan.

Beyond the loss of Los Kirk, one must take only a superficial glance at last year's Oakland A's statistical leaderboard to recognize how a few winter months can change a team. The A's best hitter by average, hits and doubles (Jay Payton at .296 with 165 hits, 32 doubles) is now playing in Baltimore. The A's best slugger by home runs and RBIs (Frank Thomas) is now playing in Toronto. On the mound, the A's also lost fan favorite Barry Zito, who led in ERA and was tied for the lead in wins with Joe Blanton at 16. That guy is pitching you know where at you know what park for you know which team. Meanwhile, off the field, the team lost their manager and third base coach, and announced intentions to move out of Oakland.

What an uneventful few months? No?

Yet, we persevere. To me, this largely stems from the knowledge that we have seen such change, and we will see it again. We were dealt body blows when we saw Hudson and Mulder leave only days apart. When I was much younger, I was shocked that the team dealt Canseco in mid-game. I've fought reality and hoped the team could keep others, like McGwire, Giambi and Tejada, largely in vain. And when those changes happen, we grumble, and move on, bruised but not beaten.

All that has me thinking - how would I react if the A's next press release said that Blanton was on his way out of town? Would I be okay with that? What if instead of Blanton, it was Haren? Or Harden? What if instead, we saw Eric Chavez or Nick Swisher shipped out of town? What if it was all of them? Would I still believe in the plan? Have the A's got us fooled by making incremental changes regularly so we don't see the full scope? I have a feeling that we haven't seen the end of the changes in this off-season. I don't think that taking on Piazza and Durazo and Embree is the master plan.

The question is, are you ready for what might be the next shoe to drop, and what player's leaving would just tear you up?

On the other hand, at least we didn't get Darin Erstad...

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Erstad link
The Erstad link isn't working.  The URL begins with ttp:// instead of http://

by skwid on Jan 24, 2007 7:49 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Fixed, thank you.
Tech Support on Line One!
More than just ANtics: http://www.louisgray.com/live/

by louismg on Jan 24, 2007 8:18 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

louismg
I really like your diaries. I hope to see more of them.

I would be pretty crushed if Blanton, Kotsay, Swisher, and Ellis left.

by Reg on Jan 24, 2007 8:15 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Appreciate it...
We're subbing for monkeyball and his prehensile tail today. I heard he got it caught in an airplane's emergency exit.

As for me, I would be frustrated to see Swisher or Chavez go. Losing Kendall would feel funny. Losing Huston Street would be sad. Losing Beane would cause ulcers.

That's about it. I'm mean.

More than just ANtics: http://www.louisgray.com/live/

by louismg on Jan 24, 2007 8:22 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

appropos Billy Beane
The Wednesday Jan 24th edition of the Financial Times headlined an article "Baseball chief Beane takes skills to Netsuite" ...

and then proceede to state in the second sentence,

"Mr Beane, author of "Moneyball: The Art of Winning an Unfair Game" was selected because of his use of mathematics, which he uses with "gut instinct" for management strategy."

author! author!
hoo haw!

Coda: My remarks are remarkable threadkillers.

by One won lost won on Jan 25, 2007 11:45 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

So...
Joe Morgan works for the Financial Times?

by Philip Christy on Jan 25, 2007 12:06 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

good one!
...seems at minimum, he's an editor.
Coda: My remarks are remarkable threadkillers.

by One won lost won on Jan 25, 2007 12:21 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

change
Change is not new.  I can remember going to a game in Oakland when Joe Rudi and I think it was Vida Blue were wearing Boston Red Sox uniforms.  The trade got nixed in the commissioners office, so it didn't go through.  But those A's lost Reggie Jackson, Catfish Hunter, etc.  Whether there is more or less change now is probamatical.  This francise has a history of getting rid of their good players, almost always for financial reasons.

Change is the name of the game.  Unless you have a pay tv network like the Yankees, you can't keep all of your good players who demand and are worth more and more money.  The A's don't have a pay tv network.  

The miracle is that the A's have stayed relatively competative through most of this turmoil.  

Here's hoping for an injury free 07.

by racodd on Jan 24, 2007 8:19 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

I don't like losing Saarloos.
I'm kind of uncomfortable with our current pitching picture (too many mysteries to me: Harden's health, Blanton's consistency, Kennedy's ability/health as a starter, Windsor's/Komine's inexperience (Gaudin's & Halsey's too, for that matter)...  I'm really excited to have Duke back, but I thought of Saarloos as another good bullpen lifeline and I'll miss him.  I don't find his loss crushing or scary, though.

I don't think there's anyone whose loss would crush me to the point that I could no longer hold on and believe there are still good things ahead.  I understand how the team does business, and I get attached to players anyway -- so I go through some sadness every offseason (the degree varying with who we're losing), but I also get over it.

That being said... as a fan of defense, I think losing Wash could be slowly crushing over the long term.

"I mean, hey, if they're going to bring the A's to Fremont, you might as well bring a Hooters." ~ some guy

by Poppy on Jan 24, 2007 8:42 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Parentheses Police
...oops, sorry...
"I mean, hey, if they're going to bring the A's to Fremont, you might as well bring a Hooters." ~ some guy

by Poppy on Jan 24, 2007 8:44 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

My nightmare loss already happened
I hate the Chicago White Sox, but Big Hurt was always one of my favorite players.  Every year I thought we might have a chance to acquire him, given his large ability and small appreciation from the White Sox.  Finally, in 2006, the stars aligned and he was ours.  After a magical season in which he carried us into the playoffs and through the ALDS before his broad shoulders finally gave out in the ALCS, he is gone.  I understand the baseball/financial reasons why Big Hurt is no longer with us, but it doesn't change the fact that one of my favorite players of all-time is now gone after only one year.  2007 will seem a whole lot emptier to me, no matter how much success the team has.  
I'd like to eat my lunch, but Billy just kicked me out of my office.

by BlameChannel53 on Jan 24, 2007 8:46 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Goodbye Dutch Oven
I will miss the good starts you had in 2005 and the occasional good starts/relief appearances in 2006.  Here's hoping Halsey a) gets a tan and b) learns how to pitch well.

by EastBayTeam on Jan 24, 2007 8:55 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Beane's 2007 master plan
Right now I am sort of scratching my head to the moves made this offseason.

Starting with Ken Macha , which was a brilliant move that a monkey would have made. His possible replacements were named but there was only one real replacement. For now I give Geren the benefit of the doubt but lets face it he doesnt look more qualified then Washington , or Macha for that matter.

Then the Embree signing....??? Signing vet crappers like this has always irked me. See Mecir , Witasik , Hammonds , etc. My prediction is a relievers that was very effective before coming to Oakland turning into a solid waste and becoming nothing more then a mop-up pitcher. Id also like to say that Embree does not fit the bill as an Oakland A. Not that Im sure we have such an identity with all the turnover but Embree is far from one.

The announcing of Kennedy as a likely Starter, just for the simple fact he is a lefty. While I agree lefties are important , I also think that they have to be effective first. Kennedy was effective as a reliever not a starter simple fact and its not going to chancge.

Then the resinging of Antonio Perez who last year made us all look like ball players. I mean for a cash strapped franchise we do love to carry one or two pieces of dead wood a year.

Then the dream that one day Dan Johnson would turn into a good ML hitter.

THE A'S HAVE MEDIOCRE WRITTEN ALL OVER THEM THIS YEAR.

One move that may turn me off this year would be the signing of Dustin Hermanson who I have hated since his days with the Giants.

by tankormike on Jan 24, 2007 9:08 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

I'm puzzled too.
Ever since mid-December I've been thinking, Billy's GOT to have one more move up his sleeve to strengthen the roster. So we get our move in late January, and what does it do but weaken the 25 man roster.

The 2006 A's just barely made the playoffs, largely by the luck of no other team in the division being strong. I'm trying and trying to see how the 2007 A's are a better team and I just don't see it yet - unless they get incredibly lucky and have no serious injuries to principal starters. (Hahaha.)

We have in effect replaced
Barry Zito with Alan Embree (huge  minus)
Frank Thomas with Mike Piazza (slight minus)
Jay Payton with ... I don't know. (big minus)
Kirk Saarloos with ... I don't know. (minus)

On the plus side we just might have Durazo to sit on the bench waiting in case Piazza gets hurt. That's some comfort. Sure.

Someone please explain the big plusses this offseason that make up for the minuses. Pretty please?

by matthias on Jan 24, 2007 9:21 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

we're not really replacing
zito with embree.
and saarloos' 4.75 era and 1.66 whip ain't all that for 1.2 million we have enough arms to replace saarloos in house, even if witasick has to play a bigger role
"I'd like to reference a brilliant post from Left Coast Lumber today" - notsellingjeans

by methodrampage on Jan 24, 2007 11:36 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

We are actually for the first time
worse now and no better in the future.

I have always looked at the Beane reign as one where if we were worse in the present we would be better in the future.

For the first time the A's future looks pretty dark. With the exception of Swisher , Buck , Harden , Haren and Street. Right now the A's have several young players looking on the early decline.

Chavez , Crosby , Blanton , Ellis , Johnson , Meyer all look like they will never hit that potential promised.

The drafts have been critisized over the years for being to money ball heavy and not enough talent drafted.

The minor leagues lacks any player with SUPER STAR potential.

The only promising prospects in the higher system are Suzuki , Buck and Barton.

Right now if Im Beane Id make everyone on the team available and seriously rebuild ala Marlins for the future. The only player Id possibly keep is Swisher , and maybe Harden.

by tankormike on Jan 24, 2007 9:33 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

beat me to the punch by a few minutes...
I forgot to mention Buck, but even he projects as a Ethier type at this point, hopefully he will continue to develop and surprise.

by Miggy on Jan 24, 2007 9:37 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

ethier
was pretty good last year...
"He has no equivalent." -Paul DePodesta on Jeremy Brown

by flipgatey3 on Jan 25, 2007 9:28 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The big worry for me is the minor league...
system.  The crucial element of sustainable success for a small market club like Oakland is a deep and rich farm system, to develop home grown stars (Giambi, Tejada, Hudson, Zito, etc), as well as pawns for future trades (Ortiz, Adkins, Harang, Ethier, etc.).  I look at the A's minor league system now and it is woefully barren and Giant's-like.  There are a some interesting prospects that might develop into bench contibutor but little to no star power.  Worst of all, the best potential is down in the low minors and won't ripen for a few years.  Everyone has great hope for guys like Barton but he projects to be a Sean Casey/Scott Hatteberg type (decent average, little power) with below-average defense for 1B.  Suzuki is an inetresting catching prospect but no sure thing.  Herrera is a toolsy OF but we reminds me an awful lot of another toolsy OF proposect - Mario Encarnacion.  The starting pitching at the upper levels is putrid, guys projecting as 6th start-types (Windsor, Komine).  There are a few intriguing RP's prospects but it is such a crap shoot on how these minor league RP's project to the majors (see Luis Vizcaino, Franklyn German, Sergio Castillo, Chad Harville, Joe Valentine, Royce Ring, David Aardsma, etc.).  I won't even get to IF's because there are no real prospects to mention - Gregori Petit, please.  The only way to compensate for this dearth of young talent is to either spend big $$ on FA's or trade proven big club talent for can't miss prospects.  The team is at a crossroads right now so it will be interesting to see how Beane and Co. respond.

by Miggy on Jan 24, 2007 9:35 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Health
If this teams stays somewhat healthy, I think we'll be OK for years to come...

P: Haren thru 2009 + Club Option
   Harden thru 2009
   Loaiza thru 2008 + Club Option
   Blanton thru 2010
   Kennedy thru 2007 - Gaudin thru 2010 (He'll start next year)

Bullpen:  Street, Duke, Calero, Gaudin, Witasick, Embree, Halsey

C: Kendall thru 2007
   Suzuki thru 2008 (Top 3 Catching Prospect)

1B: DJ thru 2010
    Barton thru 2013 (Top 10 Prospect...if healthy)

2B: Ellis thru 2007 + Club Option
    Melillo waiting in the wings

SS: Crosby signed thru 2009 - He's the Key

3B: Chavez thru 2010 + Club Option

LF: Kielty thru 2007
    T. Buck looks like the real deal (Top Prospect in the organization)

CF: Kotsay thru 2008
    Herrera is only 21 - His ceiling is Vernon Wells

RF:  Bradley thru 2007 (Extension in the waiting?)
      Swisher thru 2009+ - Will take over RF

2007 25-Man Roster Salary:  73M
2008 Guaranteed Salaries:   41.5M

I like this team if healty...A LOT!

by Colorado Fan on Jan 25, 2007 7:15 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree that health is a key
and it can be no better illustrated by Chavvy's season in 2006.

The effect of knowing a key guy cannot play (Ellis in 2005, Crosby most of last year) affects the other players' mental outlook.  Considering the long pauses between physical activity, we know baseball is the most demanding of sports mentally, and may be the most important factor whether a team wins an additional twelve games over a 162 game schedule (i.e., finishing 93-69 instead of 81-81).

Coda: My remarks are remarkable threadkillers.

by One won lost won on Jan 25, 2007 11:52 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Id love for the A's to rebuild
Right now to me Buck is the only player who looks like a sure success in the majors but not a star.

Maybe
290 avg , 350 obp , 18 hr , 30 doubles type of hitter with solid defense. Maybe Mark Kostay type?

Besides that we look horrible and instead of signing scrubs and trying to compete why not retool and make a run next year or the year after.

Im sorry if you could trade Harden , Haren , Blanton , Street , Chavez , Crosby for players like Delmon Young , Carlos Gonzalez , Lastings Milledge , Jose Tabata , Mike Pelfrey , Carlos Quentin you have done your job.

by tankormike on Jan 24, 2007 9:44 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Potential moves
By no way is that an actual trade. I just wanted to give an example of the type of players you could recieve.

by tankormike on Jan 24, 2007 9:46 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

If Saarlooses departure
can stimulate this much chatter on AN, (an I really liked Kirk and his versatility--good guy also), imagine if one of the front-liners is traded. Out of all the guys you mentioned Louis, it's the Miguel Tejada loss that still really sticks in my craw. I still don't know,( and believe me I know and heard all the reasons and arguements,) of why Tejada was lost in such a cavalier manner. Like I say, no one needs to go back in history and educate me on the why's and how's o it all. He was just a super player and special personality. It'd be like if the A's got rid of Rickey sooner than they had to.

by Salvatore on Jan 24, 2007 10:10 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Tejada was not lost in a cavalier manner
The hard facts begin with one of the tandem owners (Hoffman, of Hoffman and Schott) who was in this for the money, and not the love of the game.  The total for payroll had a ceiling.  End of the ability to retain Tejada.

Unlike Chavez, who was signed to a longterm deal, Tejada had (1) won an MVP (2) batted over .300.  Schott was being honest when he said he did not want to "embarrass" Tejada with a lowball offer.  The ceiling on the payroll dictated what the maximum offer could be.  Just because no one said they would be "embarrassed" by an offer to Zito, it was -exactly- the same situation.  Why make yourselves look silly by offering something that has not a chance of succeeding, except in creating media hubbub:  "What does that offer make you think of all the years you sacrificed for this club?  Is it a slap in the face!??" etc etc.

Tejada turned in a miserable performance vs. Minnesota in the playoffs.  I heard he was sick.  If Tejada had any stature as a "stand-up" guy, he would have apologized to the fans, taken a one-year contract -back- with the Athletics to show he really wanted to win in the post-season and break the Oakland failures in the ALDS.  

Instead, Tejada stated he wanted "long term" commitment so his kids wouldn't move around with different schools.   Well, how long did that last?  Now he wants to be traded.  What happened to the kids and their schools?  Now winning is more important, so bye-bye schools, I want to be on a winner.

Coda: My remarks are remarkable threadkillers.

by One won lost won on Jan 25, 2007 12:07 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Well I call it
cavalier when you don't even want to sit down and talk to guy about staying, and talk to him in private and try to possibly work something out. Okay, whatever. Special everyday ironman players with the talent and persolnality combined like Tejada come to a team about every so once a generation. Easy come--easy go.

by Salvatore on Jan 25, 2007 1:48 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

cavalier=the restrictions by agents
Agents don't let you sit down and discuss anything without their input and close attention.  Agents talk, players play baseball.  They don't cross over.

And, unless you followed Steve Schott around town 24/7, who knows if -indeed- he did say something to Tejada.  There would be -zero- upside to getting it in the press, and perhaps that was a condition to the two talking.... "Not a word.."

Miguel doesn't fall into the "easy come, easy go" category in that the Athletics had been following him in the Dominican Republic since he was 16, 17.
How many teenagers get the "can't miss" tag?  The Athletics did not have "easy come" attitudes with Tejada.  And he had referred to Oakland as "home" the first season with Baltimore (to Susan Slusser).

The following is not -my- opinion, I am not knowledgeable enough about free agents and their agents, and contract talks.  But it was written in several publications around the time Miguel signed with Baltimore, that the Athletics did him a $5-$10 million favor by -not- setting a low bar.

I hope someone can do a $5 million favor for me sometime!!  

Coda: My remarks are remarkable threadkillers.

by One won lost won on Jan 25, 2007 6:06 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Agents can go to hell.
They don't run the show--they're just negotiators. If a player wants to talk to Billy or the owner about staying with the team they'll just do it. Tejada's not Barry Bonds, I'm sure if Mr. Schott just wanted to have a good talking to with Miggy they would have talked. Schott just didn't want to dish out the money plain and simple. I know what all went on publically and that's the way I generally see it. Owner wasn't going to pay the big bucks for franchise player. Fans get screwed.

by Salvatore on Jan 25, 2007 10:55 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

from sports-law blogspot
Agents get 2-3% of a player's contract as commission in the NFL.  Probably similar in MLB.  So, if your player gets $60 million you get $1.2 million over the length of the contract. Or, if your player decides he "likes" his old club at $40 million, the agent gets $800,000.

Here's what the sports-law blogspot attorney writer said:
===============
In my article entitled, "Solving Problems in the Player Representation Business: Unions Should Be the Exclusive Representative of the Players," which is being published in the Willamette Law Review, I discuss how client solicitation by agents is harmful in multiple ways to the players, the teams and the leagues. I am referring to the "acceptable" solicitation in the player representation business -- commonly known as "recruiting". The player-agent relationship is a fiduciary relationship, and in such a relationship (i.e. lawyer-client relationship) solicitation is considered unethical and unlawful because of the potential for undue influence, intimidation and overreaching. So why is client solicitation acceptable? I also discuss how the "babysitting" role that agents play is harmful to players because it fosters dependency and irresponsibility.

As players' salaries keep increasing, so do the agents' fees because they are paid on a commission basis. Simply, the agent's fee far exceeds the legitimate legal work and negotiation involved with a player contract, and the players are essentially funding the solicitation expenses incurred by agents. With such a huge commission at stake, agents have an incentive to invest an incredible amount of time and resources in client solicitation. And many of the reasons or justifications typically cited for paying a fee on a commission basis in other industries are not applicable to the player-agent relationship.

In my article, I advocate that the players associations should consider hiring agents as full-time salaried employees and give each player the option to retain a union agent as his representative in club negotiations. This could alleviate many of the current problems associated with the agent business, including solicitation, agent incompetence and conflicts of interest. The union agents would only represent the players in their individual negotiations with the clubs, and would not work on behalf of the union in collective bargaining negotiations. In my opinion, there are many players that would take advantage of this option if it were available. Oh, and if the unions needs a model for it, they can look at the the union for British soccer players, the English Professional Footballers Association."

Coda: My remarks are remarkable threadkillers.

by One won lost won on Jan 25, 2007 11:47 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I am torn up!
I am very sad to see Saarloos go. I think he was a great guy, a great pitcher, and had the potential to be much more than he was with us. So on the one hand, I am happy for him. He is going to a team that could use him and he has the potential to show off his stuff. So I wish him all the luck in the world!

But, I will miss him. I was there for his almost perfect game a couple years ago, when he had a scoreless deal going into the 9th, then gave up a 2 run homer. He still won it, but it could have been a sweeter win. I was also there last season when he struck out 11 in 5 innings! That was HOT! Captain Kirk was a bright spot on our team that I think most people didn't notice until he was right on top of you. By then, you were done for!

This season our team has experienced a lot of loss. Last off season Billy bosted that we were able to add to the team with out subtracting from it. Well this year I think he more than made up for it by subracting with out a lot of addition. Yes, we got Piazza, but there have been too many people hanging up their G&G Uni for Piazza to make up for them all!

And to answer your question: "Are you ready for what might be the next shoe to drop, and what player's leaving would just tear you up?" No and Any of them! (with the exception of Perez!)

Sometimes I think I am way to loyal for my own good. I am an A's fan, but I HATE watching players leave. I HATE the off season. It is basically like torture to me. I am just not one of those A's fans that has gotten use to the changes. I hate them! I know I need to just Wear It! But when you spend 180 days a year cheering for and enjoying certain players, it is really hard to flip the switch and forget about them, much less deal with seeing them in a rival team's colors! It takes some getting use to. I will eventually get there, I just take longer than most, and I probably shed a lot more tears than most. But that is just me!

Good Luck Saarloos! You will be missed!

"We don't rebuild in Oakland, man," Swisher cackles. "We re-load." Pics

by BobbyCrosbysGirl on Jan 24, 2007 10:42 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Players we can't lose...
I draw the line with the following players, reasoning explained:
  1. Rich Harden, Mainly because he is like a beacon of hope for the A's. Ok, so maybe that was more true back in the day, but nonetheless his potential is all still in place and the results are not. Trading him would be to assume that he will never reach that potential, and that is not a view I am willing to live by.
  2. Dan Haren, Similar reasoning to Harden, his best days are still to follow and he is an exciting player to watch, always appearing collected and engaged. Trading Haren could be very beneficial for the future of the organization, but seeing as we can still easily win now, I would not be willing to accept the immediate sacrifice.
  3. Eric Chavez, I'm not as passionate as I used to be about Chavez mainly because his offense just isn't that great, but we can't trade the guy until he at least gives us one REALLY good season, and if he gives us that, we CANT trade him....so yeah.
  4. Nick the Swish, he's cheap, he's disciplined, he is a groovy fellah, and he had a breakout season and looks hungry for more. He is our Moneyballer offensive weapon of the future and he adds identity to the organization for that and for other obvious swisherisms.
  5. Mark Ellis, simply because we as A's fans, well some of us anyway, believe that he is much better than his stats of last year indicate. He is a defensive king, he is cheap because....well he hasnt been that great, but if you look at his splits there is just so much to like, a little pop, a tough AB, and blazing 2nd half numbers in his last two seasons. Id much rather have a guy start slow and take the momentum into the playoffs, its just too bad for us that Ellis got hurt when he did, you never know how things could have been different.
  6. Bobby Crosby, simply because if he ever does put it together on the field day-in and day-out then it has to be as an Oakland A, then Ill have no problem trading the guy, make the hurting stop!
Beyond that, we can trade anyone else, it hurts to see people go, but trust in Beane.

Trading Huston street might not be such a bad idea, we will call him Billy Koch 2.0.

by SwisherSweet on Jan 24, 2007 11:13 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Worst offseason in years
Might as well have "Stand" Pat Gillick the way Billy is makin moves this offseason. Cisco field is gonna cost a lot of money. They made sure and anounced that. How about spending some on a real team this year. Lew wolf in italians suit is a greedy peice of shit. Close another deck and bargain bin me again.
I love the A's until "of fremont" happens but this offseason  is pretty stupid so far and all ive seen billy beane do is watch people leave with no one to replace their production.
BRING BACK MIGGY!

by sublimeguyjohn on Jan 24, 2007 11:37 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

i don't think that
there was a whole lot that could have been done this offseason.
it was a pretty expensive free agent class with not a lot of impact guys available and we've got some decent young guys in the wings for next year.  next year should be a different story you'll have piazza's and kendall's salary off the books with what should be some cheaper yet solid in house talent to replace them.  i think that alone amounts to like 15 million.  which would be more than enough to add a solid SP, hopefully they resign milton.  this team won't blow anyone away but will be in contention and should look a lot better for the year after.
"I'd like to reference a brilliant post from Left Coast Lumber today" - notsellingjeans

by methodrampage on Jan 24, 2007 11:57 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Mediocrity
Seems to be the symptom of the bay area.
You win championchips or why are you playing?
We just burned through da big three era with one ALCS sweep to show for it. We are already scaling back. To not signing anyone or doing anything important aside from letting our productive players walk is retarded. Piazza is old and was never as good as Frank Thomas who the hell is Billy kidding. Then trading starters for middle releivers. I used to think he was making chess moves but really hes just exchanging spit with his buddies  the reds (aaron harang looks good for a player to be named later lol). Ive stopped sipping the koolaid this offseason and come to realize what bullcrap it is when they say "commited to winning". Winning mediocrity.
BRING BACK MIGGY!

by sublimeguyjohn on Jan 24, 2007 1:29 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

that's exactly the word that popped into my head
while i was attempting to decipher this post, retarded.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Jan 24, 2007 1:44 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

LOLZ
Me english i speak however choose you.
Almost tired done of your bullshit.
I love the guidelines that you bend and break so clearly.
Never once punished severely.
Asses touch upon your nose
Gives away just who know you blows
BRING BACK MIGGY!

by sublimeguyjohn on Jan 24, 2007 1:50 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

And just to think
Nico recently gave us a collective pat on the back for not registering any CGV's in the last few months.
So much nastiness on the site the last few days. C'mon people, I know it's January and we're cranky, but let's keep it civil.
"Oakland has a way of bringing out the joy in the game." NYT, 9/22/06

by SportySpice on Jan 24, 2007 2:38 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

<Bans self
for not saying "jinx">
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Jan 25, 2007 8:12 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Wow
That was AWESOME. You, sir, are a poet! Was that a joke or what? Wow, that is truly wonderful. Where did you come up with that? I LOVE IT!!

by Philip Christy on Jan 24, 2007 10:04 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

who was out there to get?
how were we going to get them?  
you say we traded starting pitching for middle relief, saarloos was never in our plans to be nothing more than long relief or a spot starter this isn't a much of a deal either way.  This team built as is can compete for the division title.  that what you play for because that means you you've got a shot at the world series.
"I'd like to reference a brilliant post from Left Coast Lumber today" - notsellingjeans

by methodrampage on Jan 24, 2007 2:38 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Sarloos
Was a releiver the last of the year.
We just traded for a releiver.
We lost zito and signed....embree? no one.
Rich Harden is on the field less than Rosie O'Donnell is at weight watchers.
Things just dont add up for me.
Frank Thomas > Piazza
Zito > Embree
Sarloos = Prospect
Jay Payton > Jack shit we got in his place

So we only lost our best offensive players and replaced them with no one or no one better. We lost our only healty ace and got a retread LOOGY. We lost Sarloos for a middle releiver we wont have for a few years. Sounds like a great offseason.
Downgrading wins championships.

BRING BACK MIGGY!

by sublimeguyjohn on Jan 24, 2007 2:52 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

you're right
without harden being on the field this teams pitching is worse than last year, that's why a lot is riding on him just like crosby.
who were we going to get to replace zito?  witasick replaces saarloos so theres not much going on there.  
i think piazza will be fine and hit for a better average than frank did and if chavez can have an average year and crosby can stay on the field the offense will be good enough.  we're not the yankees, red sox, diamond backs, or marlins we're not going to go out and just buy a championship, yet.
"I'd like to reference a brilliant post from Left Coast Lumber today" - notsellingjeans

by methodrampage on Jan 24, 2007 4:06 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

If you don't have a television contract,
forget every other excuse.

Do you realize that the Yankees get $160 million in revenue from their YES television network?  I think the Yankee gross income is above $300million.

Unless you drop individual media-centric gold mines from certain ballclubs, clubs like the Giants and Athletics won't be able to compete for free agents, willful or not.

Every free agent is overpriced, and then you get the Albert Belles of the industry, that are a huge financial blow and never contribute.  That sinks the boat of attempts at creating winners like Baltimore did, strictly by $$$$.  You have to be able to absorb the losers as well as reap the benefits from the "plays as advertised" guys.

Coda: My remarks are remarkable threadkillers.

by One won lost won on Jan 25, 2007 12:19 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

"replacing zito with embree"
Prior to the Saarloos trade we had lost one pitcher, Zito, and added one pitcher, Embree.

In terms of roles we replaced Zito with Kennedy and replaced Kenndedy with Embree. But for shorthand "replaced Zito with Embree" seemed close enough to me to describe the net effect.

Now, though, we've replaced Zito and Saarloos with Embree and a whole lot of question marks.

I really, really hope there's another move in the works to improve the 2007 roster.

by matthias on Jan 24, 2007 11:51 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

the we're hopefully
replacing zito with harden, who only made 9 appearences last year.  a full year, cross my fingers, harden more than adequately replaces zito and embree is better than saarloos, even if he is a loogy.  so IF harden stays healthy than we replace zito and upgrade over saarloos which equates to a slight plus in my book.
that being said if harden is dead for most the season than i guess you can say that we replaced zito and saarloos with embree but he's not dead yet.
"I'd like to reference a brilliant post from Left Coast Lumber today" - notsellingjeans

by methodrampage on Jan 24, 2007 12:03 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

IF he can stay healthy ..
If Harden can stay healthy in 2007, YES he has better stuff than Zito {and better than also the rest of the old big three, Mulder and Hudson, as Harden has had the best stuff on the staff since he came up}.  Thus a healthy Harden would be an "upgrade" and we don't have to pay $126M either {Grin}.  {Gosh can you imagine the Giants paying that much money, good grief, one has to wonder about Sabean and McGowan's moves but that is another story}.  It surely looks like we will have to have a lot of luck, and maybe a long hot streak a la Summer-Of-2005, to compete with the Angels in 2007.  I surely hate to see the southern CA team walk away with the AL West crown.  Last year was our big chance but alas we were smitten with injuries the whole year, including the postseason when Harden barely made it back, {and was ineffective}, and Ellis broke his thumb, and Crosby had a fractured vertebra, .. - GOSH when oh WHEN are the Athletics EVER gonna have a healthy year like the Tigers and ChiSox had last year?  What are THEY doing right {to stay healthy} that WE are not doing ??  One rarely hears of any of their big pitchers or impt players going down.

by Randy Bell on Jan 24, 2007 1:15 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

BB may still have something up his sleave...
...but I am inclined to think that the smarter move might be to wait until the deadline.

I definitely understand the frustration with the idea of taking the current squad all the way into Opening Day after watching Zito, Payton and especially Thomas carry the team into the playoffs and then chase the money to teams that may never give them the opportunity to even smell the postseason for the rest of their careers. Nevertheless, this is indeed a team of question marks and waiting to see how they pan out might be better for the future of the team.

If many of us were looking at this being our squad for 2007 two years ago, many might have felt a bit more optimistic, but the tragedy of this team is the injuries. This is the year that many of the younger injury prone players (Harden, Crosby, Bradley, Ellis) prove whether they are victims of fluky bad luck or whether they are indeed newer versions of Wood, Garciaparra, Matos and Hardy.

It seems too early to be convinced that those 4 are finished. But if they are, we're not going to the playoffs no matter what kind of magic BB can pull out of a limited budget. I do think that letting go of Payton and Saarloos' (and Zito) contracts while not matching Toronto's offer for Thomas  may just be a way to make sure that there is a little money for someone to come in in July if we have a clear need.

Right now we have no clear need. Our bullpen should be outstanding no matter what, even without Saarloos. If healthy our rotation could kick ass. If healthy, our offense could be better than last year if Kotsay, Crosby and Ellis can hit their fair .280 and Chavez bounces back and joins Swisher and Piazza in hitting in the neighborhood of 30 dingers. Then you've got Kendall and Bradley hopefully hitting close to .300. Maybe Perez hits his weight and gives Chavez some days of rest when his tendinitis flares up or he goes out for Canadian sea fare. Scutaro can fill in for a week when Crosby gets suspended for punching Cano in the face for that cheap spike of the hand and Melheus can fill in when the Kendall vs. Lackey rematch happens. Then all we need is either Johnson or Durazo to come up sufficient and we have a winner. Obviously, this is quite a rosy view of the world, but it is the optimistic view many of us had last year, and I think it is still within the realm of possibility.

Now, if the worst of the worst happens: Chavy, Bradley, Ellis, Harden, Duke, Street, Kennedy, Loiza and Kotsay go down with injuries again, Neither Johnson, Durazo or Buck/Kielty can swing a decent bat and we're hobbling through June 15 games out of 1st with a rotation of Haren, Blanton, Windsor, Komine and Halsey and our lineup looks like this:

Kendall
Rouse
Piazza
Swisher
Kielty
Scutaro
Perez
Bocachica
Johnson

Then obviously we are screwed and should really think about trading some serious pieces and rebuilding a la Marlins. If meanwhile the Mets are still on pace to score 800+ runs but are behind the Phillies and can't put a starter on the mound two days in a row that can get through the 6th without allowing 7 runs, I would think they would be willing to give up a whole lot more than Milledge for a guy like Blanton.

Sorry, this is a really long-winded way of saying that I think Beane might realize that the trading value of our pieces will be clearer (and more exploitable) after a few months of play. Because we could be really good, and have a desperate need for someone to fill an outfield spot or a 5th starter spot who is only slightly above average, or we could be really awful and banged up and have a desperate need to radically change course. I personally feel comfortable standing pat right now and waiting to see which one.

by broaklyn on Jan 24, 2007 2:16 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

A's wins in the Beane era
  1. 74 (9 wins better than previous year)
  2. 87
  3. 91
  4. 102
  5. 103
  6. 96
  7. 91
  8. 88
  9. 93 (and three more in thet playoffs!)
To answer your question, I do think the A's have a pretty good plan. That being said, the 2007 A's probably won't be that great. But I honestly don't know what else Billy could have done. Even if you are the best GM in the game, you can't compete year in and year out with a below average payroll. I'm not super excited about 07 either, but we have to do the same thing Billy's doing: pray that Bobby Crosby, Rich Harden, Mark Ellis, and Dan Johnson are healthy and productive without blowing up the franchise if they aren't.

by Nick86 on Jan 24, 2007 2:57 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I gotta disagree
"you can't compete year in and year out with a below average payroll."

I can't believe that this part of a sentence is in the same post where the wins/year are quoted.  From 99 on what have the A's done?  Well they have won more than the average number of games with less than the average payroll.  8 years in a row.  Statistically I believe that proves that you CAN compete year in and year out with a below average payroll, which the A's have always had in that timespan.  Billy ain't gonna give it up.  How many times does he have to prove it to the fanbase?  After the A's have done this 20 years in a row will we still have fans posting something like: "you can't compete year in and year out with a below average payroll."??  Since Billy took over, the A's ALWAYS compete.  They do better than compete, 5 of the 8 years they made the playoffs, and all the other years the finished 2nd.  It looks to me more like the A's dominate the AL West!

by barryzitoforever on Jan 24, 2007 4:22 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

your right
we do compete year in and year out and this year will be no different.  i think what he might have been trying to infer is that you can't world series front runners every year with a below average payroll.  since some people complain about not winning championships and what not they should be blessed that the A's do compete year in and year out unlike a lot of other teams who haven't competed for years.
it's my feeling if the a's make the playoffs, or even if they're competing for a spot with two weeks to go in the season, management has done more than enough for that season even if they get bumped in the first round.
"I'd like to reference a brilliant post from Left Coast Lumber today" - notsellingjeans

by methodrampage on Jan 25, 2007 7:00 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Winning always relies on a little luck
Or coincidence, or synergy.  The A's are a different team this year than last year, and they were a different team last year than the years before that.  Each year, though, the A's have been competitive, and every year it's been in a different way.  The team has evolved from a high OBP and great starting pitching team to a great defense and bullpen team.

This year?  Well, sure, there are a lot of ifs.  If Crosby can fulfill some of his potential and stay on the field and play D, and if Ellis can stay healthy, then the defense will be very good.  The bullpen will still be very good, with Duke/Gaudin/Street/Calero in there.  Starting pitching may very well be as good as last year, if Harden is healthy for more of the time, Loaiza has a more consistent year, and Blanton and Haren don't fade down the stretch.  Offense?  Sure, no Hurt, but maybe everyone else will realize, under Geren's tutelage, that what's needed is a more balanced attack.

The A's have a lot of talent on this team.  Yes, I've ripped Crosby on this site several times, but only because I still think he CAN be very good and I'm frustrated (a fraction of the level I'm sure HE is) that he hasn't been for a while.  They will be competitive this year, and it'll be fun to watch what style of play evolves.  Several things need to go right, but that's always the case, even with the wealthier teams.  That's part of the fun of being a fan, is hoping those things do go right.

</ramble>

Huh. I always thought that baseball's version of a home run is the motherf---ing home run itself. -FJM

by oblique on Jan 24, 2007 4:58 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn't be too pleased...
if we lost Haren or Duke. And I love Mark Ellis. If he went it would feel like a personal lost to me. I am that fond of him for some reason.

by IM4Oakgal on Jan 24, 2007 5:05 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Did you used to own a unicorn?
"...sometimes I can't tell the difference between baseball and magic."- salb918 "Ellie plowed into him like an evil, pink unicorn."-ArakSOT

by McFood on Jan 25, 2007 4:49 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Losing
Chavez, Bradley, Swisher, Harden, Haren, Duke, or Street would hurt me. Bradley and Swish most of all.
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin, Seattle Mariners

by Helloooo 1st on Jan 24, 2007 6:22 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Milton Bradley!
I feel like such a tool. That I didn't mention him before as someone I really don't want to lose is really, really wrong. Shame on me.
More than just ANtics: http://www.louisgray.com/live/

by louismg on Jan 24, 2007 8:34 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Trade Chavez now!
I am so tired of seeing him ALMOST be a great player.  Admittedly he can pick it at the corner, but so can a lot of guys.  And he is constantly battling injuries.  10 to 1 that forearm strain was from playing video games and not some adjustment to his swing BS.  Plus with all the salary escalation, his contract would be very attactive to potential suitors.  Surely we could get several blue chip prospects plus a major league 3b in return.
I fully expect Swish to blossom into what Chavez should have been, and very soon.

by elephantman on Jan 24, 2007 7:19 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

barryzito
The A's have been successful because they've been lucky and they're the best team in the game. You can't expect to come up with Giambi, Hudson, Mulder, Zito, Tejada, and Chavez every five years, and the Matt Stairses of the world aren't the bargains they used to be. The fact is, the A's have gotten lucky, with the draft from the late 90s to 2003, and last year by winning the division despite a so-so run differential. I think Beane is a tremendous GM, but now with some recent bounces (04-05 drafts, Dan Meyer, Chavez, Crosby) going the other way, it's going to be a lot harder to have success.

by Nick86 on Jan 24, 2007 8:34 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Chavez and Swisher
It sounds like my player tastes align closely with yours, Louis.  The two I'd really hate to see go are Chavez or Swisher, and I'm also inordinately fond of Milton Bradley.

Beyond that, trade away.  Now that Zito is gone, Chavez is the only player who has been around long enough to have any real history with the team. Next is probably Ellis, though I'm not attached to him like I know many here are.  Kotsay or Kendall I wouldn't miss at all.

Trading Haren would alarm me only in the sense that (along with Swisher) he's our most valuable assets right now -- figuring in price and how long we control him -- but if we turn that asset into equal value somewhere else, that's fine by me.  Likewise for Street, Duke, etc.

Honestly, this offseason has been a disappointment to me because of the LACK of change.  Yeah, we lost Zito and Frank Thomas, but everyone saw that coming from a mile away.  And everything else has just been minor tweaking around the edges. Part of the A's tradition is that every off-season something happens that makes you say, "Holy crap! What the heck is happening to our team?"  That hasn't happened yet this year, and I miss it.  It's the absence of that holy-crap moment, not the loss of any player, that makes me feel like the A's aren't the A's anymore.

"...but we're also always open to hearing about other sandwiches if it can make our lunch better." -- Nico, channeling Billy Beane

by iglew on Jan 25, 2007 8:24 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

I don't understand
what makes everyone think someone major is leaving. We all knew Zito was (we've known that for years). Aside from rumors, nobody else has left.

The way I see it, if Blanton leaves, it would be for someone like Lastings Milledge (I still have faith Beane wouldn't do it for less), and if so I think the A's come out on top of that deal.

This is a weird offseason because the A's haven't really done much, but my feeling is that's the way it's going to stay. We're just going to have to watch the chips fall where they may come spring training.

by Alien on Jan 25, 2007 9:27 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

ummmm...
Zito leaving counts as "someone major leaving" in my book. The fact that it wasn't a surprise doesn't change that.

And there was another guy who left too. Big guy, hit a lot of home runs. Can't remember what position he played in the field, for some reason, but a monster at the plate. Remember him?

by matthias on Jan 25, 2007 11:36 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

one won
I think you're being a little unfair RE: Tejada. Now that move certainly didn't work out. Tejada is signed to one of the best FA bargains of the last ten years, and Chavez's contract looks at best so-so. But at the time of the trade, Chavez was younger, had more defensive value, and got on base at a higher percentage with equal power. The A's had Crosby ready to inherit short, and no one really ready to inherit third. The choice to go after Chavez rather than Tejada, was, at the time, an obvious one. Obviously it didn't work out, but Beane played it right.

Stats 2001-2003
Tejada:

  1. Age 25 WARP3: 6.6
  2. 26, 8.5 (won MVP)
  3. 27, 6.0
Chavez:
  1. 23, 9.9
  2. 24, 7.1
  3. 25, 9.7  
For those of you who don't trust/know what WARP is, Chavez was better by all the other non-antiquated stats as well.

by Nick86 on Jan 25, 2007 12:43 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

chavez
Had played 150 or more games in four straight years before signing his contract. It may have been prudent to at least talk to Tejada, but let's be honest: the end result would have been the same, and the A's only made that offer so A's fans would not turn on him when he left like they did Giambi.

If you can infer from several interviews and cliched quotes from press clippings that Tejada's personal makeup is "once in a generation," then congrats, you have a long and prosperous future as a scout, but I'm not convinced. Few people in Baltimore share your sentiment. Billy made the smartest decision he could have at the time, and it didn't work out. Not much more you can ask for.

by Nick86 on Jan 25, 2007 5:14 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

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