Whispers of MVP?

by Tyler Bleszinski on Sep 5, 2006 9:57 AM PDT in News

It's been about four years since anyone mentioned anyone wearing green and gold with the letters MVP. But it's happened a couple of times of late, including an endorsement from Mychael Urban.

I love Frank Thomas. He's been everything the A's could've ever hoped for this year and much more. But I'm not convinced he's in MVP company just yet. He definitely is muscling that big 6 foot 5 inch frame into the mix though.

And even though I'd love to see another A's player get the MVP, there is no question in my mind that there are a few players ahead of the Big Hurt right now. That's the topic of my most recent column for FSN Bay Area. Now if the A's seal the deal and wind up in the playoffs with one of the best records in the AL by the end of September, and Thomas has a fantastic month, then by all means he should receive major consideration. Because this year, Thomas is to the A's offense what Vlad Guerrero is to the Angels offense. And that spells MVP. It's just not there yet.

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jermaine dye

is putting up insane numbers w/ the White Sox, a contending team: .326 BA, 39HR, 107 RBI...wish we had that kind of performance here...anyways he's got my vote.

by arch on Sep 5, 2006 10:10 AM PDT reply actions

considering

how as soon as Crede hits homer, they'll have 4 guys with 30 or more homers and over 80 RBIs or whatever, I don't see how you could single out any of the four...especially, if they don't even make the playoffs. Thome, Crede, Konerko, and Dye are all carrying their offense in the same way you can't single out Manny or Ortiz and they both carry the Red Sox...they'll all steal votes from each other basically.

But if your life is such a big joke, then why should I care?

by johnspaz7 on Sep 5, 2006 5:10 PM PDT up reply actions

ugh

that should be as soon as Crede hits one more homer...etc

But if your life is such a big joke, then why should I care?

by johnspaz7 on Sep 5, 2006 5:11 PM PDT up reply actions

Depends on your definition of MVP

Frank has been extremely valuable to the A's this year. But his numbers aren't sexy enough for MVP consideration.

Chicks dig Moneyball.

by Kelly on Sep 5, 2006 10:15 AM PDT reply actions

I still think they need two awards

one for MVP and one for "Best Player" or something like that.

by Tyler Bleszinski on Sep 5, 2006 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions

Can't argue with this

Chicks dig Moneyball.

by Kelly on Sep 5, 2006 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions

I agree with you

Thomas has been an MVP to the A's

by oaklandbbfan on Sep 5, 2006 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions

was anyone at the A's game on Saturday?

Chants of MVP-MVP could be heard from right field... yuuup

"The are only two places in this league. First place and no place." -Tom Seaver

by greekpride08 @ Athletics Nation on Sep 5, 2006 3:57 PM PDT up reply actions

it's like the kobe vs steve nash

argument in the nba....kobe more talented and gifted...yet nash is the heart and soul of the suns. not flashy, yet he makes his team and teammates better.

by arch on Sep 5, 2006 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions

NASH SHOULDN'T BE MVP

PERIOD.
Don't ever say it again.

"Who cares?" he said. "We won." - Swisher; "I like the moist sensation" - Zito

by Erik being Erik on Sep 5, 2006 12:33 PM PDT up reply actions

nash is mvp

by arch on Sep 5, 2006 1:47 PM PDT up reply actions

Nash is ...

back to back MVP. Wear it!

by Larry E on Sep 5, 2006 3:29 PM PDT up reply actions

one of the top 5

biggest frauds in sports.
Callin B.S.

"Who cares?" he said. "We won." - Swisher; "I like the moist sensation" - Zito

by Erik being Erik on Sep 5, 2006 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions

statement of fact?

i thought Nash was a bonafide MVP. i didn't know he was a fraud, until now.

by eshock on Sep 5, 2006 6:11 PM PDT up reply actions

I used to think

that no A would even get a 10th place vote

but Frank will at least get some love.

I thought Jeter would win it, but now Dye is coming on strong. Its probably a three horse race with Jeter Mauer and Dye. I'm starting to think Howard will win in the NL

Hi, I am closetasfan, and I am a NRAF, and an ANA

by closetasfan on Sep 5, 2006 10:16 AM PDT reply actions

unless pujols has a monster sept

it's almost a lock for howard. they say if he keeps that pace, he'll be the only the 4th player in history to hit .300+ , 50HR+ and 150RBI+ in a season.

by arch on Sep 5, 2006 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions

Forget MVP

He should be a shoe in for Comeback, especially if the A's get out of the first round of the playoffs. I think this is a better avenue to expend energy on.

Then again right now he is one of the players pictured on MLB.Com's lead article.

On the flip side that too might be an uphill battle, especially since Thome is very loved and on a great team. But as for the other's Frank can take 'em.

by thefatman on Sep 5, 2006 10:34 AM PDT reply actions

I like Urban's dig at Chavez

"The answer is easy: It's Frank Thomas, who, with apologies to Nick Swisher, is the only true superstar in the A's lineup. He's the main man in the middle of one of the worst statistical offenses in the game and without him, the A's would be a .500 club. That makes him the MVP."

Notice no mention of the guy who we're paying $11M/yr to as the "face of the organization." Chavez has been a massive disappointment. Sure, his defense is great, but nobody can say with a straight face that he's living up to his contract. And with all the superstars we let go, it's painful to watch him get worse and worse every year.

But I'm glad Urban wrote this column: it seems incredibly logical to me. Thomas is the reason we're in first place. Hands down. Plus, he's the most fun batter to watch that we've had in Oakland since Tejada. Time to break out the "MVP" chants.

by EastBayTeam on Sep 5, 2006 10:53 AM PDT reply actions

If I hear MVP chants

at an A's game this year I'd hope it's from some other team's fans. And I thought Angels fans didn't know baseball. I'd rate them above A's fans in general if I heard MVP chants directed in Frank Thomas' way at all this year...and that's sad. Please don't do it.

by RunRickeyRun on Sep 5, 2006 1:21 PM PDT up reply actions

Been pretty well established

MVP doesn't go to the player with the best stats. In terms of importance to a playoff-bound team, at this point nobody is better than Thomas. It remains to be seen what happens in September, but so far there's no doubt we'd be at or below .500 without him.

by EastBayTeam on Sep 5, 2006 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions

But he's not the only one

Swisher still leads the team in games, at bats, runs scored, total bases, and walks. He's number two in home runs, RBIs, and SLG. And he did most of that when the nobody except Chavez was any help offensively. Not to mention that Frank Thomas contributes zero defensively. If not for Nick Swisher, the A's would also not be where it is today.

(I like them both. I'm just playing devil's advocate.)

Truth is, the A's isn't a team made up of stars, so it's no surprise that it's not easy to pick one out.

by GlassHeart on Sep 5, 2006 6:38 PM PDT up reply actions

Hyperbole

"He's the main man in the middle of one of the worst statistical offenses in the game and without him, the A's would be a .500 club."

The idea that Thomas has been worth 10 wins over replacement level is absurd.

by Danny on Sep 5, 2006 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions

If Thomas is voted as the MVP

on any ballot year, I would personally suspend voting priveleges of all BBWAA members. Mauer, Jeter, Morneau, Ortiz, Manny, Wang, Haren, A-Rod, Damon, Verlander, Thome, Dye would all be better choices than Frank Thomas.

Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Sep 5, 2006 11:12 AM PDT reply actions

Thomas is our MVP

but no way in hell should he beat out Ortiz and some of the others mentioned above, excluding pitchers of course..

"I don't know if you know but France made it to the World Cup final. They all tested positive for being assholes" -Lance Armstrong

by sf drift king on Sep 5, 2006 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions

agreed

how could the MVP be the DH on the team known for their defense and pitching. He also has only played 3/4 of the games (which is amazing considering) along with being pulled at the end of many games for a guy with more wheels.

by dbeach13 on Sep 5, 2006 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions

A-Rod, Damon,

and Wang over Frank. R U kidding me?! How 'bout Hafner, Halliday, and Santana over those 3?!

President of the Brent Gates Fan Club

by SoCal As Fan on Sep 5, 2006 11:25 AM PDT reply actions

Yes.

Hafner, Halladay, and Santana over Big Frank and over Damon and Wang and probably A-Rod as well. And Sizemore is up there too.

Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Sep 5, 2006 11:31 AM PDT up reply actions

Wang

What's the obsession?

by Danny on Sep 5, 2006 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions

I think mvp award is for one of these two guys

morneu, dye.

55-28 since May 31st (Kendall's HR day). 2-2 in September.

by haroldMD on Sep 5, 2006 11:44 AM PDT reply actions

Its a no wondering they're "whispering"

I wouldn't want to sound like a complete and utter jackass by suggesting aloud Frank as MVP either.

"The Matt Watson/Chiba Lotte Marines Fan Club"-Through Aug 27th: GMS-53,AVG-.285,OBP-.367, SLG-.418, 9 doubles, 4 homers, 17 RBI

by bigelephant on Sep 5, 2006 12:36 PM PDT reply actions

Dye is MVP

Period.
However, playing in NY has it's privileges and Jeter will probably get it.
I don't like DH being MVP either

NL MVP, hands down Ryan Howard.

"Who cares?" he said. "We won." - Swisher; "I like the moist sensation" - Zito

by Erik being Erik on Sep 5, 2006 12:37 PM PDT reply actions

Gotta go with Beltran.

Excellent outfield defense makes up for 20 points of OBP and 40 points of SLG. Beltran is a centerfielder, for goodness sakes!

Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Sep 5, 2006 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions

Are you saying who you think should win,

or who will win?

Because when the voters look at the standard line stats, they will see (as of now):

Beltran: .286/39/112
Howard: .309/53/134

And we all know how much those are going to be taken into account, no matter what we think.

Also -- as an aside -- I think that 60 points of OPS is pretty darn significant. It is the current OPS differnce between say Bobby Kielty and Nick Swisher, so 60 OPS points is nothing to dismiss too easily.

Elimination Numbers: Angels-19, Rangers-16, Mariners-11

by AsFanInLA on Sep 5, 2006 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions

Who should win.

60 points of OPS is of course significant, but defense is also a very big deal. Howard is DH playing first; Beltran is one of the top centerfielders in the NL. Beltran also gets a huge edge in baserunning.

Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Sep 5, 2006 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions

Beltran..

very good choice, and I appreciate the Defensive input, but Howard is just ridiculous right now...September will tell alot, and it looks like Beltran is going to miss some time

"Who cares?" he said. "We won." - Swisher; "I like the moist sensation" - Zito

by Erik being Erik on Sep 5, 2006 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions

dye or

morneau i think are the two best candidates. i almost want to get some rf bleacher tix to the whitesox games and see if we can start an mvp chant for jd. weird to do for an out of town player, but i think pretty much everyone in oakland still has respect for jd. it'd be great to see him win it.

by Backspin on Sep 5, 2006 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions

Still no chance

As I said another time this came up, for a DH to have a chance he should be by far the best offensive player in the league. There is no way Big Frank can achieve that level. There will be at least five players on playoff teams alone who finish the season with better offensive numbers.

I love the guy and he will probably be the A's MVP. But even talking about him for league MVP is preposterous. While I think salb's list is a little exaggerated I agree that he should not get a single first place vote no matter how well he does in September.

by matthias on Sep 5, 2006 1:16 PM PDT reply actions

Another vote for Jermaine Dye...

"I think every memeber of AN should send every memeber of LL 20 bucks." ~ Goose on LL

by AsGirl on Sep 5, 2006 1:35 PM PDT reply actions

Yay.

I voted for Jermaine Dye last week. I'm glad there are others.

Kettlecorn! Swishercorn!

by TurnTwo on Sep 5, 2006 2:07 PM PDT up reply actions

Frank would have to have superhuman September

to get MVP. But what about actual honors? Let's celebrate Loiaza being selected as the AL pitcher of the month for starters. Almost as gratifying is the identity of the second place pitcher, whose 0.00 ERA in the month just wasn't good enough (see bottom of article).

"The guy's Far Eastern. Psychic. He knows what the hitters are looking for, and he relays that to me," Zito said.

by LAXile on Sep 5, 2006 2:02 PM PDT reply actions

A Funny Game

Baseball never stops amazing me. We get a great year from Thomas after the Sox paid him all that money for very little production over the last two years. And the A's paid for Dye's recovery with big bucks only to see the Sox cash in with an MVP performance this year.

Some things just are not fair...

Thomas Walker

by Thomas Walker on Sep 5, 2006 2:39 PM PDT reply actions

If they gave the MVP to Thomas

I'd probably be a little embarrassed about it, to be honest. Unless it was the result of him going, say, unbelievably insane this month and going from between 10th-15th or whatever it is he's at for OPS+ to, say, top 5.

Don't take that the wrong way though, I love Frank Thomas unconditionally. The man's been a saviour, he just shouldn't be MVP of the league.

there's simply no club like the white elephant club

by walk off bunt on Sep 5, 2006 3:31 PM PDT reply actions

MVP or not -

anytime Frank steps into the batter's box, you can feel the anticipation.
He can change the game around with one swing.
And believe me, there were far too many times in years past that he stepped in against us...and well, let's just say, I am real glad that he wears the green and gold now.

"Listen, my attitude is a whole lot better when we win..." Our favorite GM

by LongTimeFan on Sep 5, 2006 3:42 PM PDT reply actions

re

I don't understand why Joe Mauer isn't the clear favorite.

by 31Boots on Sep 5, 2006 3:47 PM PDT reply actions

because

Jermaine Dye is in the A.L.

"Who cares?" he said. "We won." - Swisher; "I like the moist sensation" - Zito

by Erik being Erik on Sep 5, 2006 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions

Dye

has 3 guys around him that will finish with more than 30 homers and more than 100 RBIs...how can you say he's the MVP when he's got those kind of guys around him? Thome is only 1 homer behind him, too.

But if your life is such a big joke, then why should I care?

by johnspaz7 on Sep 5, 2006 5:15 PM PDT up reply actions

True or False...

Dye is also a pretty solid right fielder.

Dye is top 5/6 in triple crown categories... is anyone else?

anyone close? anyone who plays defense?

D.Y.E. = M.V.P.

"Who cares?" he said. "We won." - Swisher; "I like the moist sensation" - Zito

by Erik being Erik on Sep 5, 2006 5:56 PM PDT up reply actions

my point

is that he's not exactly carrying his team with that kind of offense around him...Crede plays solid D, too...and the other guys have similar homer and RBI totals...how can you pick one without giving the other guys consideration? I guarantee you Thome steals MVP votes from Dye...that's what Manny does to Ortiz and that's what Lowe did to Pedro when Zito won the CY...just wait

But if your life is such a big joke, then why should I care?

by johnspaz7 on Sep 5, 2006 5:59 PM PDT up reply actions

I hear you ...

and like most of the people on AN, you make a good point.
I like to counter though...

I think the diffence between Ortiz and Manny is just like Dye and the others... you don't really see any of them coming up with the clutch 9th inning to tie or win a game as often as the formers, respectively.
I could be wrong, but it just seems like Dye is doing what Tejada did in his MVP year. However, september will tell alot, just like it did for Tejada (I think the back to back walk off wins during THE STREAK did it for him)...right now
Dye is my pick but Sept can change that

"Who cares?" he said. "We won." - Swisher; "I like the moist sensation" - Zito

by Erik being Erik on Sep 5, 2006 6:05 PM PDT up reply actions

regardless

of what happens with the MVP, I don't really care...I just know from recent history that whenever there is more than one really deserving guy on a team, they don't win it...just like the scenarios I outlined previously. Ortiz wouldn't be anything without Manny protecting him...Dye to a lesser degree since his lineup has more than just one plus guy protecting him...when Tejada won, it was really just him on the offensive side.

Certainly, if neither Sox team makes the playoffs, I doubt anyone from their team wins the MVP.

But if your life is such a big joke, then why should I care?

by johnspaz7 on Sep 5, 2006 8:02 PM PDT up reply actions

Frank for Comeback Player Award

Yes Thome has better numbers , but Frank had essentially missed 2 years where as Thome has only missed one. Thats gotta speak for something..

by wordfromthewise on Sep 5, 2006 4:57 PM PDT reply actions

I adore Thomas and everything

he's done, but honestly I don't think he's even a top-5 choice. To win as a DH, you have to put up Ryan Howard's numbers (OK, David Ortiz's numbers). And in a year when guys may be hitting .350 for the first time in the history of the position, hitting around .350 while being deified in the nation's largest media market, and hitting .300+ with 30+ HRs, I don't think The Big Hurt is more than "honorable mention". Partly because the award is ridiculously ambiguous in its requirements and partly because others are having "even more MVP" seasons.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Sep 5, 2006 5:39 PM PDT reply actions