harden starting thursday?

by tdwclark on Sep 16, 2006 1:22 PM PDT

against the tribe? i am alternately ecstatic and worried...will he or wont he remain healthy and pitch this team to a Championship? Or should we leave well enough alnoe? I suppose you can never have enough starting pitching.
I suppose they wouldnt be starting him if he wasnt ready, but it seems as a releiver might work as well...
I just hope he isnt our version of Liriano, who got very lucky even though he got injured again. Something tells me if Rich gets hurt again, it could be more serious...like TJ surgery.

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Here's a link

to the yahoo article:
Harden Tuesday?
hope my html-ing works

Live forever or die trying.

by oaklandpete on Sep 16, 2006 1:29 PM PDT reply actions

I'm going to post this after the game...

"Why won't everyone do what I want???" ~SportySpice

by baseballgirl on Sep 16, 2006 1:31 PM PDT reply actions

im excited!!!

by Spidz34 on Sep 16, 2006 1:38 PM PDT reply actions

im excited!!!

by Spidz34 on Sep 16, 2006 1:38 PM PDT reply actions

Can't see it.

That would be hellaciously foolish. What's the rush? Send him out for some mop-up work, make sure he's looking great, THEN start him.

"I smell like a meadow." - Yuniesky Betancourt

by Ozzz on Sep 16, 2006 1:44 PM PDT reply actions

Mop up duty

is assuming too much. Either we're way ahead or behind. It's too unpredictable. if you're going to bring him back and test him, might as well start him so it's a fresh game. Just make sure to have a very tight pitch limit and stick to it even if it's in the middle of an at bat. Have Sarloos, Halsey, Gaudin, Windsor ready to go. If he's ready, let him go. The only real question is if he's ready and in that, they'd better not rush him.

by DMOAS on Sep 16, 2006 2:23 PM PDT up reply actions

assuming too much...

especially with this team, where seemingly every game features a save situation.

I am no drunkard, I'm a hard-working man.

by Cutthemullet on Sep 16, 2006 8:03 PM PDT up reply actions

I guess I just...

..don't see our present situation as one inn which we need to rush him back. Make sure he's playoff-ready, not 'earliest possible return day' ready.

"It's time to blow this team up." - Oaktoon, July 2006

by Ozzz on Sep 17, 2006 9:37 AM PDT up reply actions

nice, nice, really really nice.

by CyZito on Sep 16, 2006 1:56 PM PDT reply actions

well

I can't say I'm excited at all. This could be a great way to deflate the team entering the most crucial series of the season. I hate being so cynical, but that's the way it seems to work with young pitchers these days...

by SeanR on Sep 16, 2006 2:03 PM PDT reply actions

I don't see this ending well

by znk916 on Sep 16, 2006 2:48 PM PDT reply actions

Harden's start or this thread?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Sep 16, 2006 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions

Or the Bush Presidency?

"It's time to blow this team up." - Oaktoon, July 2006

by Ozzz on Sep 17, 2006 9:37 AM PDT up reply actions

re: Harden starting

My thoughts on this whole scenario are that Harden's been on the shelf since June 5th, thats more than 3 months to rest that arm that did not need surgery. Everyone is saying he feels fine and from the accounts of the simulated game today his stuff is still nasty.

Now for the bullpen vs. rotation debate. Harden coming back and working out of the 'pen is a waste of his talents IMO. It's not like our 'pen is weak or has a lot of holes (if any). We already have 3 very able RH set-up men and an able closer, we don't need another RH down there. What it comes down to is whether you'd have Saarloos or Harden in the rotation and the other in the 'pen. My vote is for Captain Kirk in the 'pen because of his ground-ball tendencies (late inning DP's).

Harden is waaaaay more valuable to us in the rotation where he absolutely dominates.

"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin, Seattle Mariners

by Helloooo 1st on Sep 16, 2006 4:41 PM PDT reply actions

Ditto.....totally agree.

by Vegas Ace on Sep 16, 2006 8:25 PM PDT reply actions

Yup

roll the dice. You play for this season. Period. You worry about next season next season. You might never get another chance at this thing ... it's all about winning the World Series. Right now.

VacaAsFan

by Vacafan on Sep 16, 2006 9:25 PM PDT reply actions

That's where I totally disagree

I realize some fans want the "Florida Marlins experience" but I don't. Give me 8 contending years in a row over a couple titles and a bunch of losing seasons any day. Personally.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Sep 16, 2006 9:46 PM PDT up reply actions

Really?!

Man, that surprises me. No, I want the ring. If you told me I could watch the A's win it all this season, and be out of contention for the next 5, I'd take that all day.
I guess it's kind of a silly theory though . . . I mean, if you're "in contention" then you've got a chance. I just think if you worry about doing something now that will "hurt" you next year . . . what if "next year" doesn't come? I mean, there are no guarantees . . . you keep Harden out this season, so he can come back "strong" next year . . . what if the team is out of contention next year? You miss a shot now, in the HOPES you've got a shot next time.
But you're right -- just opinion.

VacaAsFan

by Vacafan on Sep 16, 2006 10:09 PM PDT up reply actions

Yeah Nico-

I just read your post again . . . no way. 2 titles and a "bunch" of losing seasons beats 8 seasons of "being good," all day long.
It's the title that counts -- it's all that counts. I root for my team to win the championship ... anything else is a let-down. I root for the A's regardless, but if I say "Well, at least we contended even though we didn't win it all," man, that just sucks.
When I think of 2000-03, I think of major disappointment, NOT "gee, that was fun." That sucked. We gotta win it all, or we failed.
Thanks for letting me rant. :-)

VacaAsFan

by Vacafan on Sep 16, 2006 10:15 PM PDT up reply actions

No prob--

we're just polar opposites in that regard. I would never take a WS championship and 5 years of losing/not contending over 6 years of contending--even if the team fell short every year.

I want the excitement of the chase, every Summer, more than I care about bagging the occasional prize. That's probably why I never get laid.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Sep 16, 2006 10:20 PM PDT up reply actions

Well hell,

let's just do both then. Win it all, and contend next year, too.

VacaAsFan

by Vacafan on Sep 16, 2006 10:23 PM PDT up reply actions

Works for me!

And I actually have hope, as long as Harden is healthy (just a minor "if"). As you know, I've always been a bit luke-warm on Zito. I think replacing him with Harden, watching Haren and Blanton mature a year, and having Loaiza healthy from the start, makes the 2007 rotation potentially better than the 2006 rotation.

And offensively, any lineup that has Bradley, Thomas, and Chavy in it for 130+ games each is fine. Could all happen, without a lot of maneuvering--which leaves room for any cool Beaneuvers. Like, maybe, Catalanotto?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Sep 16, 2006 10:32 PM PDT up reply actions

I agree with Nico

in our winner-take-all society (thanks Steinbrenner!) the real value of having a contending team every year is underrated. I might feel differently if I were a Giants fan, but I've seen a couple A's world champions and now most of what I'm interested in is seeing a contending team play well in a pennant race. I just got home from the Stanford football loss to Navy, and rooting for a team that truly sucks makes me appreciate the A's all the more. Nice new stadium, though.

by vk on Sep 16, 2006 10:40 PM PDT up reply actions

I'm with you guys.

For me, baseball is about the season, not the final game.

If you win the WS, cream.

If you only just fail, what a great year, huh?

"It's time to blow this team up." - Oaktoon, July 2006

by Ozzz on Sep 17, 2006 9:39 AM PDT up reply actions

No.

That just means you lost. Again. Think Red Sox fans feel that way? Or how about Cubs fans??
Nope, the only reason you play is to win the whole thing -- I'm so thankful I was at Game 4 in S.F. in '89 . . . everything else pales in comparison. By far, the best moment I've ever had as an A's fan. That's what you play for, and that's what you root for.

VacaAsFan

by Vacafan on Sep 17, 2006 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions

No.

Do you cheer a solo homerun in a 6-run loss? Of course you do. Because it's a great moment, and you saw it and apapreciated it. You don't sit silent because it 'won't help you win the World Series'.

To answer your question, yes, I do think the Red Sox appreciated all those years where they had .500+ seasons and made the playoffs. If they didn't, why does the place sell out every single game, even when they're not mathmetically able to make the big show? Why did it always sell out, even with nearly a century of missing out on the WS?

Because it's baseball, and it's fun, and it's played in nine inning doses, and the result in each of those nine inning doses matters. The WS is cream.

"It's time to blow this team up." - Oaktoon, July 2006

by Ozzz on Sep 18, 2006 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions

The Athletics' ownership and management...

...are the people who really have to live with the consequences of allowing Harden to start...don't you think the organization has enough riding on this decision in order to make a sound judgement call? Don't you think Harden does as well? Everything, I'm sure, is being weighed here on the risk/reward calculus by all the parties. And, I know the parties involved have much more information than we do. I believe in the wisdom of the Athletics' ownership/management and R. Harden being greater than that of collective message-board fan...there's money and livlihood at stake for those guys for.

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by LowcountryJoe on Sep 17, 2006 5:06 AM PDT reply actions

Yes, LCJ, but...

A couple factors can play in the other direction:

There is also pressure to win, and that pressure sometimes obscures good judgment, at least with some organizations--maybe not the A's but certainly bigger market teams.
Specific to the A's, I'm sorry but I just don't trust the judgment of the A's medical staff. Time and time again, the "common messageboard fan" has seen what the "experts" could not. Dan Meyer in spring training and Loaiza in April/May are two shining examples.

But other than those two points, I agree with you.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Sep 17, 2006 8:56 AM PDT reply actions

and we have Harden's start in June

to feed those doubts

by OaklandSi on Sep 17, 2006 9:34 AM PDT up reply actions

I'm stoked that Harden is starting

I agree with everyone else that you have to take your best shot when you are close. Harden pitching in the playoffs for hopefully one to two starts per series could be a difference maker.
BoCro on the other hand, should sit on the bench and watch some guys in the playoffs with less talent than him hitting to the opposite field. Maybe that will teach him.

by connie mack on Sep 17, 2006 10:51 AM PDT reply actions