The 2004 Collapse

by RLangford on Aug 25, 2006 11:34 PM PDT Comment 16 comments

This year is nothing like 2004--not even close.

Any comparison is pointless, mostly because the A's are such a radically different team.

But I thought it would be worthwhile to point out that the A's collapse that year revealed that they were in fact a pretty bad team. Beane saw this and, god bless him, acted.

How bad were the "September, 2004 Oakland A's"? We all, of course, can point at Mulder and Mecir and Hatteberg, but truly it was a team-wide failure.

Consider these numbers:

*In their last 26 meaningful games that season the A's went 9-17.

*7 of those 9 wins were by one run.

*The A's were outscored by an amazing 57 runs during that stretch: 153-96.

They were truly awful, one of the worst teams in baseball by season's end.

This year, of course, the A's aren't anything like that. All signs indicate that they will be a very good team all through Septembrer. Every single aspect of this team--starters, bullpen, offense, and defense--is better than the 2004 squad.

When I look back at that September, I always think to myself that being so very awful actually saved the team. It led Beane to act. And the team we have right now is, in part, a result of those actions.

That horrible month was very likely the best thing that could have happened to the organization.

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Word.

In hindsight, those trades look more and more genius. He kept the one guy of the Big Three he thought was gonna help us the most - not the one with the best stuff, per se, not the one with the most wins, or the grittiest one, or the biggest, or the one with the most velocity - the one with the healthiest track record, who the A's were likely to get the most value out of. And looking at all three this year, it's obvious he made the right decision. Plus, we save almost $30 mil over two years? AND got a BETTER starter (Haren), a great bullpen guy (Calero), a great prospect (Barton), and Cruz, who we were able to turn into Halsey, a decent lefty. What do the Braves and Cardinals have? Injuries, and lighter wallets.

Sorry, many have said this all before, but it just awes me what a great baseball mind Beane is - at least, when compared to his contemporaries. It's stunning.

"The whistles are woooooooo" - Bubb Rubb

by Philip Christy on Aug 26, 2006 2:10 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Carefull, lest you be labeled a 'homer'

There shall be no Beane praising here, since he 'skimps' on talent -- insisting on assembling the team on the cheap -- and has lately failed to make the midseason bold moves that we came to expect (and demand) from him.

4 8 15 16 23 42

by LowcountryJoe on Aug 26, 2006 4:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

And...

we don't allow A's homers in these parts!

Just ask Jason Kendall.

"Loyal? I'm the most loyal player money can buy." - Don Sutton

by vignette17 on Aug 26, 2006 1:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I wholeheartedly agree

Any comparison of the A's of 2004 to the A's of 2006 to begin with is ridiculous.

That said, that September 04 was historically bad. It likely cost Mark Mulder a future with the A's (thank God for us) and probably opened Beane's eyes to the fact that we had to drastically overhaul the team.

supporting the green and gold all the way from boston.

by walk off bunt on Aug 26, 2006 2:29 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

or ...

it cost Mark Mulder a future, period. September 2004 was the worst month of MM's life--and all indications are, he still hasn't gotten over it.

"WTF is wrong with you people TASTELESS COMMENTS. I'm disgusted. Mocking a 10 year old's horrible painful death." --eshock

by rubin sierra on Aug 26, 2006 10:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

gotten over it?

it's not that he hasn't gotten over it, it's that he's not a very good pitcher anymore.
just by watching him pitch it's clear that it's not psychological but physical.

just because mulder has pretty much consistently sucked since september 2004 doesn't mean that's the reason he sucks.

the bottom line is, he has been declining since about 2002.
k/9: around 7 --> below 5
bb/9: around 2 --> over 3

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Aug 26, 2006 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I still think it may be psychological.

Didn't he pitch a 10 inning game this yr for the Cards. He hasn't been a complete waste this yr. He seems to be on this pitching rollercoaster. When he's on, he is zeroed in on his target and when he's not, well... you have what happend to him in his most recent start.
There's no middle ground with him anymore. I remember getting upset at MM for giving up 3 runs in 7.1 innings. Wow, if he could only get back to that, I'm sure he'd be happy.

"I don't know if you know but France made it to the World Cup final. They all tested positive for being assholes" -Lance Armstrong

by sf drift king on Aug 26, 2006 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

if he pitched 10 innings earlier this year

how does that make it a psychological thing?
he wasn't thinking about september 2004 on that particular day?

this is a guy with injury issues.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Aug 26, 2006 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

why would you even bring it up?

is there a point to your diary?

ok, 2004 was a bloodletting session. so what. beane played his role. he IS the GM.

for any fan around two years ago they're familiar with what you've said.

like you stated; a comparison is pointless.

by azagtooth on Aug 26, 2006 3:36 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

A little harsh

Because the numbers are interesting
Because there was a lengthy discussion about this in another diary.
Because it paved the way for the current team.

Looking back is never pointless, and I doubt everyone here has total recall of just what a disaster that month was.

by RLangford on Aug 26, 2006 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

One more thing

"Beane played his role. He is the GM." You write that as if any other GM anywhere would have traded two of his top starters on back to back days. As if this were just business as usual for a major league team.

Either you don't like Beane or you're dumb as hell. No other GM would have done that. The Hudson trade was out of necessity, but the Mulder trade was gutty and brilliant. The two together meant he had the courage to stake his reputation on a bold move. He was hammered in the media and by the fans--he knew he would be but pulled the trigger anyway.

That's much more than just "playing his role as GM."

by RLangford on Aug 26, 2006 10:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

people need to go look through

all the AN threads on the mulder and hudson trades...
according to many, those who supported it were brainless kool-aid-drinking beaniacs.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Aug 26, 2006 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

oh yeah

i forgot that the sun came out. sure, i'll soak up the rays, but once that rain cloud shows up i'll toss the umbrela.

HarHar, we all love the A's right?

by azagtooth on Aug 26, 2006 3:43 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

JINX JINX JINX

by OaklandSi on Aug 26, 2006 7:37 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Collasped in 2005 too

The A's also collasped in September 2005 just not quite to the degree that happened in 2004. Here is the A's line in September 2005:

Split W L RS RA WP
September 11 17 115 123 0.393

Not as bad as 2004 but not very good. I surmise that at least some of this is because Macha refuses to rest his field playing starters during the year and they just collapse in September from lack of rest. The long season gets to them. I would not be suprised to see this happen again.

by skwid on Aug 26, 2006 10:07 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Fortunately, and ufcrotunately the A's have had

a lot of injuries. Unfortunately because the best players missed a lot of games, and fortunately because the best players missed a lot of games, they will be fresh down the stretch, and our reserves are more trusted, other than Herb Perez, PR extroardinaire.

by theblackpearl on Aug 26, 2006 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs