Beat Those Pinatas No Longer
I just thought I'd share my most recent column with FSN Bay Area. It's about two of AN's favorite whipping boys and their evolving status in A's fans' minds.
Are you a believer in Loaiza and Kendall yet? Or do they need to do it over a much longer period of time?
28 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
whew!
OT
Just the recent reports I've read on Harden
by Tyler Bleszinski on Aug 24, 2006 7:08 PM PDT up reply actions
Ty for the answer.
I've gotten off the Kendall pinata,
I was never bothered by his lack of HR power, just unpleasantly surprised that even his hits were usually not line drives--something I never expected. The recent run of hitting is much closer to what I envisioned when I first saw his career stats.
But the bottom line is that on an offensively robust team, Kendall probably wouldn't have bothered me as much. It's just in combination with Crosby, and others who under-hit, that it was harder to embrace a ".320 line drive hitter" who was actually a ".250 bloop to right field hitter" and who slugged .300.
No complaints at all about the last 3 months, though; if that's "the real Kendall" I'll take it, and I'll lavish him with praise and kisses.
HA! I knew it!
by baseballgirl on Aug 24, 2006 8:15 PM PDT up reply actions
Kendall/Loaiza
Loaiza: Incredibly confident in him right now. He starts against the Red Sox on Monday and I think gives us a very good shot at winning. Best pitcher on the A's right now.
If he pitches well against the Red Sox
by Tyler Bleszinski on Aug 24, 2006 8:29 PM PDT up reply actions
the bigger slouch
Un-fucking-believable
Blez, I love AN, but this is the kind of stuff that makes the site look like a bunch of homers.
Kendall has had a great August 2006. But lets not forget that on July 31st he was posting a 265/336/314 line for the season. He was decidely average AT BEST with the bat and absolutely pathetic at deterring the running game last year. He has failed to live up to anyone's expectations and one outstanding month does not justify the $12 million we're paying the guy this year.
Much the same can be said about Loaiza. He's had a great August, but it doesn't make up for missing the month of May and getting his ass kicked in April, June and July. Even if you include his recent run he is still sporting a 5.12 ERA to go with a 1.49 WHIP and .292 BAA. Those are bad numbers and the losses he ran up in the 1st half still count in the standings.
Dammit Blez, if Billy Beane had called you up before he signed Loaiza and told you that Esteban would be sporting a 5.12 ERA at the close of August you would have begged the man not to spend the money. Now you're trying to spin three great starts into validation of the signing? If the season ended today the only logical thing a person could say about Loaiza's 2006 performance was that it sucked and the $6 million the A's spent for the privilidge of Loaiza's company was a waste of paper and ink.
For a combined $18 million (nearly a third of the A's player budget) you're damn right that these two need to do a lot more to justify their place on the roster. They were mostly dead weight until August, and no one has ever won a title in August.
Grover, Here's Why I Believe...
It's not a question of believing
Local paper? Editorial from guy who runs...
You know, it just occured to me, maybe your negativity is your issue and maybe you use it so that you wont come across to others as a so-called 'homer'. Quite frankly, after reading this latest bit of criticism from you, I'm wondering if the Oakland Athletics are a team that you actively root for deep-down-inside in those places that you'd rather no talk about.
<Integrity check!>
by LowcountryJoe on Aug 25, 2006 6:52 AM PDT up reply actions
Checked my integrity
AN prides itself as being full of knowledgible fans. There is a difference between a knowledgable fan and a "homer". A homer would think his starting SS is the best player at his position in all of baseball even when all the evidence says otherwise. (Think Yankee fans who claim that Jeter is a great defender.) A knowledgible fan looks at his starting SS and goes " You @#%#$!! Crosby! Take your .229 batting average and go home you worthles... Holy Shit! He hit a 2 out single to drive in two! Yes! Yes! I love you Crosby! I love you! Yes...! But you've still been a disappointment this year."
Kendall and Loaiza have been, to date, disappointments. A great month of baseball does not change that. A knowledgible appreciates the past month but realizes that the overall truth of the matter hasn't changed much.
What you have just described here...
A knowledgible fan looks at his starting SS and goes " You @#%#$!! Crosby! Take your .229 batting average and go home you worthles... Holy Shit! He hit a 2 out single to drive in two! Yes! Yes! I love you Crosby! I love you! Yes...! But you've still been a disappointment this year."
...is not "knowledgeable fan" but rather "knee-jerk fan"; with emphasis added in the appropriate place.
Crosby = worthless!? Come off of it!
by LowcountryJoe on Aug 26, 2006 3:54 AM PDT up reply actions
yeah I know
by Cutthemullet on Aug 25, 2006 6:56 AM PDT up reply actions
That wasn't what I was saying
One great month of baseball does not make up for 3-4 months of mediocrity (or worse) from Kendall and Loaiza.
Uh... stat check
by bzn5150 on Aug 25, 2006 8:43 AM PDT up reply actions
Hi
Loaiza makes $5 million in salary this season ($6 million in 07, $7 million in 08 plus a team option in 09), but he also receives a $1 million bonus every year. That bumps his total 2006 salary to $6 million.
That's $18 million out of a $62 million payroll. That's more than a quarter but less than a third.
Pulls Loaiza from under grover's bus
Pitcher A
16 starts, 8-4 WL, team record 11-5
102.2 IP (6.65 IP/G)
3.61 ERA (41 ER)
1.19 WHIP (23 BB, 99 H)
Pitcher B
16 starts, 9-5 WL, team record 11-5
106.1 IP (6.40 IP/G)
4.15 ERA (49 ER)
1.47 WHIP (41 BB, 115 H)
Pitcher C
15 starts, 7-4 WL, team record 10-5
92.1 IP (6.16 IP/G)
4.48 ERA (46 ER)
1.36 WHIP (25 BB, 101 H)
Pitcher D
14 starts, 8-5 WL, team record 9-5
109 IP (6.26 IP/G)
3.90 ERA (38 ER)
1.51 WHIP (23 BB, 109 H)
Each of these pitchers has a distinctive stat that should make this easy to guess who's who. More telling is the team record stat - notice they're all pretty similar. Regardless of how much Loaiza is perceived to be sucking up the rotation, the team still wins at an equal clip with him on the mound. He has the worst ERA, but the second best WHIP, and the ERA isn't horrid if you take into account he really started after the return frm the DL.
'But you can't toss out his pre-DL stats!' ... fine, but pre-DL, he started 4 games (5 with the rainout mulligan). The team went 1-3 in those starts. The team might be 3 games better, at most, if he pitched like an ace then. More likely, the team would've been 3-1 or 2-2. I'm not gonna nitpick much over a 2 game difference at this point.
As of the start of June 1, we were 24-29. These 4 pitchers contributed to a 41-20 record in their starts since (last I checked a .672 clip is pretty good). Other starters were 7-6 in that period. If I were to look for fault, I would say we could've been anywhere from 8-5 to 10-3 if those starts were made by a healthy Harden. That's 3 games tops that we could've added on to our current record. Now, if we miss the division title, there will be a multitude of reasons we can point at, but I think it would be patently unfair to lump it on Loaiza's shoulders. It's not like he's Armando Benitez.
I agree, he's not Benitez
Let's talk Loaiza's numbers, and we'll just discuss his post-DL contributions. A Quality Start is considered 6 IP and 3 ER or fewer. When you think about it, that's not really that great of a pitching performance from a SP. (That's a guy with a 4.50 ERA and his team would need 2-3 relief pitchers to finish up the game.) But it gives us a baseline to judge Loaiza's performance.
Now, I'm perfectly willing to concede that his last three starts have been wonderful. Before his August 13th showing against the D'Rays Loaiza had managed 12 starts since returning from the DL, and the A's had gone 8-4 during that stretch. The question is how much did Loaiza contribute to those wins? For example, if a pitcher gives up 9 ER in a game but walks away with a victory, you'd be hard pressed to give the guy much credit for the team win.
Therefore we must acknowledge that a team can sometimes win in spite of its starting pitcher. So before you start to tout winning percentages when defending Loaiza, let's figure out how much credit Loaiza deserves for the team's 8-4 mark during his starts from June 8th through August 7th.
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/playerGameLog?categoryId=85408
Using Quality Starts (QS) as a baseline, we see that Loaiza failed to pitch 6 full innings in 7 of his 12 starts during the selected timeframe. The A's went 4-3 during that stretch and I have a hard time giving Loaiza much credit for those victories. He gave up 4, 3, 4 & 2 ER in those 4 wins, never once managing more than 5.1 IP.
The A's went 4-1 when Loaiza managed at least 6IP. He gave up 1 ER in 7 IP in his first start back, 3 ER in 6 IP in his next start, 4 ER in 9 IP vs the Giants and 4 ER in 6.2 IP vs the Rangers. Now, the 10 runs the A's scored vs. SF was the overwhelming factor in that victory but I'll give Loaiza full credit for a QS because I'm willing to accept the extra run in exchange for a full 9 innings worked. I'm not willing to be so generous for his performance vs. the Rangers. The game was in Oakland and he gave up 10 hits and a walk in 6.2 IP. I'll only give partial credit to the SP for that win.
So of the 8 wins the A's managed in this time frame, Loaiza was a significant factor in 3 (maybe 4) of the victories.
That's not very impressive. We probably could have gotten that kind of performance from Saarloos or Halsey. The guy isn't Benitez, but the A's went 8-4 in spite of the guy from June 8 through August 7th. His recent three game run has been impressive, but it doesn't warrant putting away the beating stick just yet.
He is still a valid pinata.
Love 'em both right now
by bzn5150 on Aug 25, 2006 6:37 AM PDT reply actions
I love the poll question
Loaiza's struggles really made sense--he played in the WBC, and probably wasn't ready to do so, which caused him to lose his fastball. Unless you're Jamie Moyer or Tim Wakefield, you need one of those to be a successful pitcher. Now that he has his fastball back, we're getting performances much more in line with his 2003 and 2005 seasons.
my two cents
Loaiza: What can you say - he looked lousy for the first half, occasional moments of command punctuated by big hits and runs. Now that his velocity is higher than we've seen thus far, let everyone else look at his inflated ERA and call him washed-up; he's been on the ups ever since the All-Star break and hasn't looked back. Thats what I want to see taken to the post-season!
Go A's BABY
I have actually supported Kendall the whole
That being said - when he is actually producing, I can't help but just love the guy. I was a big fan of his in Pittsburgh, and now - if he can keep this up, I would actually be in favor of trying to extend him a year - by rolling next season's salary with an additional 5 million into a two-year contract.
Loaiza - I was never big on, but he has been nails as of late - and if he can keep this type of production up the rest of this season going into 2007 - then what a signing for Billy Beane. At the least - this recent surge of his is at least giving credence as to why Billy would sign the guy in the first place - because in April and May, there was absolutely zero positive coming from the Loaiza.

by 























