DLD Aug 18 2006: Remembrance of Things Moneyball

by Apricot on Aug 18, 2006 8:18 AM PDT

Moneyball was responsible for taking my casual interest in the A's to a whole new level of fandom. Googling Beane lead to AN, which led to a lot of time down the drain. So in honor of that book I present a few articles looking back.

Today Jeff Passan wrote a thoughtful article revisiting Moneyball and some of the draft highlights (including Swish, Cupcakes, and Teahen).

Michael Lewis himself wrote a fascinating follow-up article in the NYT following Stanley and Teahen and pondering the influence of steroids. Note the elegant photography from Tabitha Soren who is not only an MTV VJ (the way you stay "Senator" for life), but also Michael Lewis's wife.

A gorgeously detailed look at the draft by Gleeman at THT whose only fault is that it's from 2004.

Finally, another interesting retrospective by Jim Ryan.

In case you, like Joe Morgan, have never read the book, here is Apricot's brutally concise summary of the book.

The A's spend a LOT less money than most other baseball teams, yet they are very successful.
When you are "poor", you need to look for bargains and not take big risks.
Often tracking things with numbers tells you things your eyes can't, because your eyes and guts can be fooled by great aesthetic appearance, small sample sizes, emotional attachment or buying into dominant or traditional ideas that have been accepted but never well tested.
At the time, OBP and not striking out was undervalued. Since the main difference between OBP and the well-known AVG is walks, and walks were uncool and undervalued, the A's looked for players who walked a lot.
The A's had a lot of early picks in the 2002 draft, but couldn't afford to sign all the top well-known players they could pick. So they picked Swisher and Blanton, and then picked players who most people hadn't considered. They were trying something different, figuring it couldn't be worse than the traditional way.
High schoolers are riskier and relatively expensive (not WORSE), so they drafted college players.
Scott Hatteberg makes great contact with the ball, but only the A's cared.
Jeremy Brown had great stats, but no one else cared because he was "fat".
Bradford had great numbers, but no one else cared because he was a crazy submariner.
Beane played poorly but got a lot of chances because he was hot.
As a GM, Beane threw a chair through a wall once.
Youklis was the God of Walks (though apparently a jerk according to On The DL).
Milo was crazy, and now is the God of Psychos.
Notice the book does NOT say:
scouts are always wrong
numbers are always right
Enron was good
the A's way is the only way to win
the 2002 draft is the best draft in history
OBP will always be the best bargain
defense is stupid
the A's are the best team and will win the WS
And I add my own very very brief retrospective:
Beane's move to defense, starting pitcher depth, and "trouble" players shows that it really is about finding the undervalued and not some worship of walks. And the drafting of HS pitchers recently again shows that it's not a simple "never draft HS players" formula.
The Red Sox won their WS using an utterly classic 2002-era Moneyball team (OBP, SLG, no smallball and pitch count). So Moneyball can win.
The 2002 draft beyond Swish and Blanton seems pretty so-so. Everyone agreed on Swish and to a lesser extent on Blanton.
Free market theory suggests that as information spreads, the inefficiencies that Beane exploits will disappear. That means that in a rational market, over time teams will mostly play as well as their payrolls. This is bad for the A's. Their window is closing now that the big boys (BoSox and Yanks) are using sabermetrics and Moneyball ideas. Luckily, the Angels are one of the more anti-Moneyball teams out there and the playoffs are still a crapshoot so if we can keep sneaking in we have a shot at making noise. I just hope the A's are still in the Bay Area if they win it all.
That's all I've got right now. Feel free to add links about anything, not just Moneyball.

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Apricot, if this diary doesn't lead

to another ENRON, I don't know what will. Kudos.

Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Aug 18, 2006 8:25 AM PDT reply actions

apricot = ken lay

"a fascinating follow-up article in the NYT"

the lewis article is from april 2005, placing it in the august 18 2006 daily link dump is pretty shady...
also, it wasn't in the NYT, it was in the NYT Magazine.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Aug 18, 2006 8:58 AM PDT up reply actions

I love this summary

Thanks!

I am a converted Yankee as a result of Moneyball. It is a good to see a rational summary of it as it continues to get blasted(most recently by Bill Simmons). Simmons is probably one of those 700 verbal 520 math guys who just doesn't get it. His astonishing exit in a math oriented "sport" like poker further heightens this hunch. His Memphis Grizzlies comparison is sloppy as they always get swept out of the playoffs. The A's at least come down to a bounce of the ball or critical decision in game 5.

The Moneyball draft will turnout to be a solid B+ if teahan turns into a premium 3rd baseman. Brown may also have a career as backup catcher if things break right. This is pretty impressive given that he wasn't on most GMs boards(a la Renaldo Balkman...Isiah's latest hunch). If you nail 3 quality big leaguers in a draft it is an excellent haul. Baseball drafts are graded on a different scale than NFL drafts.

by DKNJ on Aug 18, 2006 8:28 AM PDT reply actions

Can we trade for Deanna?

http://www.lookoutlanding.com/story/2006/8/18/5110/50963#commenttop

"The student is trying to keep up with the teacher," Swisher said. "It ain't easy chasing a dang Hall of Famer, though."

by Jennifer on Aug 18, 2006 8:37 AM PDT reply actions

Sal is coming up on arbitration, isn't he?

We can trade him to LL for Deanna and a stathead to be named later :-P

Stephen Colbert: "Kids who look up to athletes become athletes themselves."
The Word: Or bitter sports journalists.

by JLaff on Aug 18, 2006 8:39 AM PDT up reply actions

What if....

We pool our resourses with LL and create super mojo against the Angels? It is the least we could do.

while I'm GM, I'd get the black uniform tops back into the mix, make high socks mandatory and add a beer tap in the press box-Mychael Urban

by jb on Aug 18, 2006 8:49 AM PDT up reply actions

If anything...

We could use the Rally Dino.

Stephen Colbert: "Kids who look up to athletes become athletes themselves."
The Word: Or bitter sports journalists.

by JLaff on Aug 18, 2006 8:50 AM PDT up reply actions

I'd probably make it through waivers

But see, it's no fun to write about an actual good team with actual interesting players who actually win games and actually care about their fans. What would I have to complain about? Swisher's facial hair?

Marinerds - a different daily dose of baseblog.

by Deanna on Aug 18, 2006 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions

that's what we do

"the poop stain on the collective AN pantalones." -ohad

by ArakSOT on Aug 18, 2006 12:39 PM PDT up reply actions

I was just about to add the article

to the daily DLD but you've done a great job on it. The best line of the article was from Bell:

"There's so much more to this game than just stats and OPS, PMS, whatever it's called," Bell said

"The Matt Watson/Chiba Lotte Marines Fan Club"-The Committee is accepting new memberships (please pay in Yen). "Raking" numbers soon to be posted.

by bigelephant on Aug 18, 2006 8:43 AM PDT reply actions

Today is Roberto Clemente's birthday

He would have been 72 today. I wrote a book review of his latest bio, posted at Bucs Dugout. ( http://www.bucsdugout.com ) If you've the time and interest, I invite you to check it out.

by Brian in 317 on Aug 18, 2006 8:47 AM PDT reply actions

thanks, J.P.!

On Dec. 2, several days after the Toronto Blue Jays signed reliever B.J. Ryan, they designated Gaudin for assignment. Three days later, he was traded to the A's for a player to be named (outfielder Dustin Majewski).

Beane said Jays GM J.P. Ricciardi, his former assistant, telephoned and asked if he'd like to have Gaudin.

"I was the first person J.P. called," Beane said. "I told him, 'Yes, we have interest in him.' We liked Chad. They had a roster crunch after the signing of a player. It was not a matter of them not liking Chad."

source

by gotgreen on Aug 18, 2006 8:49 AM PDT reply actions

From that article:

"It's huge. It's so much bigger than Yankees-Red Sox," Gaudin said of the Magallanes-Caracas rivalry. "You've got 55,000 people hootin' and hollerin'. They've got 50 fights a game. They've got guards out there with long swords that they hit people with. It's crazy."

(emphasis mine)

Rich Harden is a guard in the Venezuelan league?

Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Aug 18, 2006 9:34 AM PDT up reply actions

I like Chad, you like Chad, we like Chad.

"This must be heaven," he says.
"No. It's Oakland."

by Kyli on Aug 18, 2006 10:03 AM PDT up reply actions

hmm, this isn't good

Something to ponder: If you threw out the A's-Mariners meetings, Seattle would have a better record (55-49 prior to the Mariners' game Thursday night) than Oakland (53-51).

source

by gotgreen on Aug 18, 2006 8:53 AM PDT reply actions

Well, then.

I guess we'd better not throw those out.

Food burns just as surely at 5 mph as it does at 65 mph.

by Poppy on Aug 18, 2006 8:57 AM PDT up reply actions

if you throw out

all the games the a's won against every other team, it gets even worse.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Aug 18, 2006 9:00 AM PDT up reply actions

i ran an analysis

and that over and over and it kept coming up with zero wins.

the great playoff miss of 2004 followed by the good try of 2005...in 2006?...prove it.

by ak_A on Aug 18, 2006 9:18 AM PDT up reply actions

Fortunately, all the games count!

If the Angels hadn't gone 6-7 against the Mariners, they probably wouldn't be six games out of first--and if Texas hadn't gone 8-2, they'd be four games under .500.

"The first night, we were right there," Bradley said. "All we needed was a couple of touchdowns, and we would have had them."

by jeepers on Aug 18, 2006 9:00 AM PDT up reply actions

WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE!!!

Day to day

by oblique on Aug 18, 2006 9:22 AM PDT up reply actions

FIRE THE MARINERS NOW!!!

There's no crying in baseball!

by gigglingone on Aug 18, 2006 10:04 AM PDT up reply actions

If I could get monkeys to fly out of my butt...

I could make a pretty good living as an airport.
<paints "Passenger loading only" sign on left bun>

"the reason why hitting the ball on the "sweet spot" of the bat feels so good is that the ball is contacting at the bat at a vibrational node." - salb918

by McFood on Aug 18, 2006 9:48 AM PDT up reply actions

lol

Food burns just as surely at 5 mph as it does at 65 mph.

by Poppy on Aug 18, 2006 9:51 AM PDT up reply actions

What an AWESOME DLD...

...great writing. This should be saved somewhere on the site when people ask about Moneyball.

"Why won't everyone do what I want???" ~SportySpice

by baseballgirl on Aug 18, 2006 9:04 AM PDT reply actions

oh yeah

perfect summary of "moneyball", apricot!!

by gotgreen on Aug 18, 2006 9:05 AM PDT reply actions

apricot,

can you do come up and do summary briefing for me this afternoon, i'll give you all the facts of the project to summarize...then i will take off cause it's friday.

the great playoff miss of 2004 followed by the good try of 2005...in 2006?...prove it.

by ak_A on Aug 18, 2006 9:11 AM PDT reply actions

I was actually thinking last night

I have come to the conclusion; since the M's help us so much this year and are almost part of the family that I will not be suprised when 1/4th of their team goes on the DL within the last six weeks of the season.

the home run that Eric Chavez did was tight. Sprots4Kids quote

by Satchmo22 on Aug 18, 2006 9:12 AM PDT reply actions

More than 20 fans are going to notice

Sadly, things are still not going well for Mark Mulder.

"The first night, we were right there," Bradley said. "All we needed was a couple of touchdowns, and we would have had them."

by jeepers on Aug 18, 2006 9:15 AM PDT reply actions

What's worse?

His 3.00 WHIP, throwing 42 balls in 92 pitches, or the fact that this constituted an improvement over his last rehab start?

A's 2006 record when I attend: 8-7

by peanut gallery on Aug 18, 2006 9:43 AM PDT up reply actions

ZING!

"Hate the Angels, yeahhhhh!" -Sandfrog

by franks a lot on Aug 18, 2006 10:04 AM PDT up reply actions

Fire Joe Morgan...

http://www.firejoemorgan.com has the Ethier trade article up from Plaschke.

HILARIOUS.

"Why won't everyone do what I want???" ~SportySpice

by baseballgirl on Aug 18, 2006 9:20 AM PDT reply actions

That's hysterical!

But...

...the A's received two serviceable players who have probably reached their peak...

Antonio Perez has reached his peak?!

Food burns just as surely at 5 mph as it does at 65 mph.

by Poppy on Aug 18, 2006 9:57 AM PDT up reply actions

The peak of bench sitting

It's all downhill from now on.

The biggest question of the day is will Perez start one of the games today...

"Hate the Angels, yeahhhhh!" -Sandfrog

by franks a lot on Aug 18, 2006 10:05 AM PDT up reply actions

that was heavenly

"Don't be an ass!" --Bill King

by batgirl on Aug 18, 2006 9:59 AM PDT up reply actions

My favorite part

In Ethier, he saw so much potential, one day he couldn't help himself.

He walked down to the dugout railing and started giving him instructions.

Said LaMacchia: "I wanted to help the young kid, tell him not to try to pull everything, tell him to take what they gave him."

Said Ethier: "I thought he was just some crazy old man yelling at me from the stands."

I don't blame you, Andre.

"The first night, we were right there," Bradley said. "All we needed was a couple of touchdowns, and we would have had them."

by jeepers on Aug 18, 2006 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions

And...

If the Royals were nto ni the Central division.
Or, back before Detroit got good the Tigers and Royals.

Or, Tampa were not in the East.
Or, in some previous years, Tampa, Baltimore, and Toronto.

by Donner on Aug 18, 2006 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions

Screw you and the horse you rode in on.

Ohio TE Logan fined $100 for punching police horse

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=2553562

by theblackpearl on Aug 18, 2006 9:22 AM PDT reply actions

Jeter is pissed

An excellent A-Rod/Jeter article from NY that - gasp! - takes A-Rod's side for once

Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Aug 18, 2006 9:23 AM PDT reply actions

That was a really good article.

And Jeter is kind of an ass. Some 'teammate'! A-rod is getting blasted left and right, and when something happens that is not his fault, AT ALL, Jeter can't even sack up and take the blame, but instead, TRIED TO GET THE ERROR CHARGED TO A-ROD.

Classy.

"Why won't everyone do what I want???" ~SportySpice

by baseballgirl on Aug 18, 2006 9:52 AM PDT up reply actions

I actually hope ARod has a good series.

I hate the yanks, but I hate the Red Sox even more. And I never really liked A-Rod, but with the constant bashing he recieves I kinda pull for him just to shut those stupid fans up. I mean he won the MVP last year for Christs sake. He's having a little bit of an off year, but he's still having a year most player would love to suffer through.

Now his defense is another story. But if I remember this correctly, he did switch from his preferred position to calm the ego of a lesser player.

by SuperBean on Aug 18, 2006 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions

Ever since leaving Seattle and taking

the $252 million dollar deal, I've disliked A-Rod. But I love an underdog. And all this unfair and unnecessary A-Rod bashing spells out sure fire winner to me. I'ma take A-Rod's side in all of this and look like a champ when he hits homers in the post season for the rest of his life.

Everyone that bashes him for not being clutch is just begging to be labeled an idiot. Because they don't know what the hell they're talking about.

There, I said it. I'm an A-Rod fan. Even if he looks and talks like a priss.

by hunter on Aug 18, 2006 2:02 PM PDT up reply actions

salb...

I wrote the guy today, and got a reponse! I love writing people who are good at their job! :)

Subject: Great article on Jeter/A-rod

[...]I'm obviously less than a Yankees fan, but I can't help but be completely sympathetic to A-rod for the beating he has taken this year from his home fans, and the New York media. He's a player in a different class than Jeter, yet that 'gritty', 'clutch', 'team-player' can't admit it, and it was awesome to FINALLY have an article that backed it up.

Just wanted to say that someone linked to your article on our page today, and we think it's fantastic.

Nice to see a real article written about the Yankees without mentioning the 'magical intestinal fortitude' that Jeter has and A-rod doesn't.

:) christy

thanks for the note. i love the internet -- somebody from all the way out in oakland can pick up something that a jersey guy wrote. i've jumped on a-rod plenty of times. but the guy is not solely responsible for every bad thing that happens to this team.

uh oh ... i shouldn't speak too soon, he's about to come up in the seventh with runners on base!

thanks again,

steve

"Why won't everyone do what I want???" ~SportySpice

by baseballgirl on Aug 18, 2006 12:55 PM PDT up reply actions

And let's see what he did in the 7th...

NYY 7TH - Alex Rodriguez doubles (20) on a line drive to left fielder Manny Ramirez. Bobby Abreu scores. Jason Giambi to 3rd. NYY 6-3

Or was that not clutch because the Yankees already led by two? :P

Dorian on Bonds: "Still, I love it when Bonds wins at the game that he plays."

by FormerHuntsvilleStar on Aug 18, 2006 3:02 PM PDT up reply actions

are you serious?

the ESPN mlb page has a picture of manny ramirez and this blurb:

While David Ortiz is clearly the face of the Red Sox, Manny Ramirez is simply the most unappreciated superstar in the game.

i hate ESPN.

by gotgreen on Aug 18, 2006 9:29 AM PDT reply actions

<manny goes on killing spree>

Ooop, just Manny being Manny.

Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Aug 18, 2006 9:30 AM PDT up reply actions

This is the problem with Connecticut..

They are stuck between New York and Massachusetts. I'm so sick of the NYY/BoSox thing, it is bad for baseball. Certainly, it is good for biz though.....

Manny is a great hitter, but underappreciated? That is an absolute joke.

"Tired Act" - Mychael Urban

by Masaryk on Aug 18, 2006 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions

Hmm...

Hafner?

by SuperBean on Aug 18, 2006 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions

I was going to say

Curtis Pride, but Hafner is a decent pick.

"No, I haven't been drinking or taking Ecstacy... " ~ Poppy

by eamb on Aug 18, 2006 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions

No way, dude!

That award is all about Mark Grudzielanek.

"The first night, we were right there," Bradley said. "All we needed was a couple of touchdowns, and we would have had them."

by jeepers on Aug 18, 2006 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions

Also, in their power rankings...

ESPN has the Yanks at three, but then say how A-Rod has a cold bat and a bad glove and is basically contributing negative to the team.

A-Rods month of august:

.317/.400/.533 with 12 RBI and 9 R in 16 games.

by SuperBean on Aug 18, 2006 12:17 PM PDT up reply actions

A la recherche du ballon d'argent perdu

Personally I thought the Passan article was a pretty sloppy piece.

My biggest gripe is that signability is competely ignored, giving the impression that the A's took what they believed to be the best 7 players available, which misses a huge point of that draft.

Re. Teahean specifically:

he was not called "another Jason Giambi" as the opening line implies, but only the most likely draftee to be another JG if that draft included such a prospect (a pretty big if).
the idea that he is becoming a stud now that he has escaped the A's straightjacket of pitch-selection is absurd. Its easy to write this now, while he is on a tear (and at a point where the Royal's season is long-dead), but this is the same player who was demoted to the minors earlier this season.

The odd thing is that Passan notes these counterpoints but then doesn't let them get in the way of his wildly simplistic thesis.

Finally, the whole craggy baseball men versus nerdy stats guys is just silly, and again Passan comments on this, and then goes on to do exactly that.

Lazy misleading writing, IMHO.

"Even if you know the deck is stacked in your favor, you still have to have the discipline to trust the math and the cojones to go to the ATM." BB

by green star oakland on Aug 18, 2006 9:30 AM PDT reply actions

when Passan tasted the madeleine soaked in tea

he couldn't help remembering... Moneyball.

I agree with your critique of the Passan article (and I emphasized the signability aspect in my write-up since it's usually ignored). However, on the tragic spectrum of Moneyball pieces, Passan's was on the reasonable side, I thought.

by Apricot on Aug 18, 2006 9:42 AM PDT up reply actions

And to wait this long to read the "book"

I mean, really, who does he think he is?
Joe Morgan?

"Tired Act" - Mychael Urban

by Masaryk on Aug 18, 2006 9:59 AM PDT up reply actions

the cardinals sign preston wilson

link

by gotgreen on Aug 18, 2006 9:38 AM PDT reply actions

Desperation setting in

Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Aug 18, 2006 9:42 AM PDT up reply actions

Darn...

Thought that we had Jay Payton v.2.0 last week. Those pesky "heard it on KNBR" rumors!

"Hate the Angels, yeahhhhh!" -Sandfrog

by franks a lot on Aug 18, 2006 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions

<gouges own eyes out>

Manny for MVP? Donovan makes a good case, but this eats me up:

Here's the kicker: Ramirez is an even better hitter with runners on base (.322, with a 1.047 OPS, compared to .297/.997 for Ortiz), with runners in scoring position (.307/1.021 to .300/.996) and with runners in scoring position with two outs (.351/1.221 to .291/.988). If that's not clutch, the sabermetricians are right. There is no clutch.

SABERMETRICIANS DO NOT CLAIM THAT THERE IS NO CLUTCH. Their finding is that clutch hitting is generally not a repeatable, demonstrable skill; and that even if it is, it is too small a factor to be useful for strategic decision-making.

Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Aug 18, 2006 9:42 AM PDT reply actions

so

isn't what you're really saying is that clutch doesn't exist?

<ducks>

by Apricot on Aug 18, 2006 9:43 AM PDT up reply actions

Yes.

<sigh> That is exactly what I'm saying.

Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Aug 18, 2006 9:46 AM PDT up reply actions

Let me sum it up for you this way:

Without a clutch, a car won't go, but without disc brakes, a car won't stop.

"the reason why hitting the ball on the "sweet spot" of the bat feels so good is that the ball is contacting at the bat at a vibrational node." - salb918

by McFood on Aug 18, 2006 9:53 AM PDT up reply actions

I found myself trying

To explain to an old baseball guy that clutch hitting didn't exist in a statistically relevant way. I tried to explain that from season to season, the stats even out, and while all fans perceive "clutchness" from certain guys, chances are these feelings are not backed up by numbers or facts over the long term. I also explained that once you're clutch, you're clutch forever (like Jeter) though once you're a choker, there ain't nothing you can do to change that (A-Rod).

This guy was a Dodger fan. I asked him who on the A's he felt was most clutch, the player he least wanted to see in a late game situation.

He said Marco Scutaro.

I walked away.

by Crosbino on Aug 18, 2006 9:47 AM PDT up reply actions

Manny can't win it...

because Bobby Crosby long ago secured this award.

"Hate the Angels, yeahhhhh!" -Sandfrog

by franks a lot on Aug 18, 2006 10:08 AM PDT up reply actions

Moneyball

Couple of comments on your write up:

Nobody considers the 2004 Red Sox a "Moneyball" team because they had Manny Ramirez and David Ortiz instead of Scott Hatteberg and John Mabry! I find myself constantly explaining that Beane would LOVE guys like Ramirez and Ortiz. It's not that he doesn't want them, he just can't afford them. People just DO NOT understand this.

Perfect "Moneyball" Players include (coincidentally, the best in the game): Pujols, A-Rod, Ramirez, Ortiz, Hafner, etc.

And especially A-Rod, cause he's a choker, just like us!!!

Also, hard to say that the 2002 draft isn't so good for us. Any time you have two 1st round picks that both make the show and are productive or better, that's a success. The problem is that Beane set the bar so high with that draft and they hype was so intense, that it seemed like every player we picked had to be a superstar, like any team ever drafts more than one or two productive players.

by Crosbino on Aug 18, 2006 9:43 AM PDT reply actions

a-rod

wouldn't it be great to have a-rod w/ the a's and them finding redemption together with a world series win?

by arch on Aug 18, 2006 9:47 AM PDT up reply actions

I have had that same dream

then the LSD wears off and I realise we are stuck with Crosby until the LSD wears off on Billy Beane or Crosby finds his swing. I wonder which will happen first?

In England all A's fans are "Athletic Supporters"

by Athletics Fan In London on Aug 18, 2006 10:03 AM PDT up reply actions

maybe when

LSD wears off on bobby and billy finds his swing?! ; )

by arch on Aug 18, 2006 12:59 PM PDT up reply actions

Actually, we drafted THREE major leaguers

You forgot Teahen....he starts for K.C. Watch today's games to get a glimps.

"Tired Act" - Mychael Urban

by Masaryk on Aug 18, 2006 9:56 AM PDT up reply actions

points taken

I think the draft was pretty good for us, but I was pointing out that Swisher wasn't really a controversial uber-Moneyball pick, compared to Brown or Brent Mantitties, and Blanton was on people's radar.

by Apricot on Aug 18, 2006 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions

OMG!

I don't know if minor details like "a job" and "a family" have been preventing you from posting on a daily basis, but you need to get your priorities straight, and at the top of that list should be "Making McFood laugh like a hyena".

Make it so.

"the reason why hitting the ball on the "sweet spot" of the bat feels so good is that the ball is contacting at the bat at a vibrational node." - salb918

by McFood on Aug 18, 2006 1:12 PM PDT up reply actions

Ortiz

Beane couldn't afford Ortiz? How much did the Sox initially sign Ortiz for again?

by rfloh on Aug 18, 2006 1:21 PM PDT up reply actions

Good call

I posted this once before ...

A big 20/20 hindsight mistake that Beane made was back in winter of 2002-2003, when he signed Durazo (his holy grail) instead of the very available and very cheap Ortiz. Could have easily worked out the other way and Durazo could have become the star, but oh well. Sour grapes at this point.

But Ortiz was available for nothing then. And since Theo picked him up, I'm guessing that Billy also liked him. It's just that he liked Durazo more.

Damn.

by Crosbino on Aug 18, 2006 1:42 PM PDT up reply actions

Theo also picked up

Jeremy Giambi, Larry Sutton, Kevin Millar, and Gabe Kapler to see who would stick in the 1B/DH role. It was a good strategy; Millar nad Ortiz were successes, and Kapler wasn't so bad either.

Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Aug 18, 2006 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions

Pitchers heart Brandon Buckley

(from the A's site)

But I'll never be able to look at Buckley the same way again, after this exchange between me & Mr. Poppy at the game last weekend...

Me (watching Buckley walk out to the bullpen before the game): "I wonder if Brandon Buckley really likes his job."

Mr. Poppy: "Why? What's wrong with it?"

Me: "Well, nothing's wrong with it, but he never gets to play in the game, because he's not really on the roster... and I always wonder how he feels about that."

Mr. Poppy: "He's the bullpen fluffer."

Food burns just as surely at 5 mph as it does at 65 mph.

by Poppy on Aug 18, 2006 9:50 AM PDT reply actions

Wow.

Most awesomely excellent.

Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Aug 18, 2006 9:54 AM PDT up reply actions

Nice.

"the reason why hitting the ball on the "sweet spot" of the bat feels so good is that the ball is contacting at the bat at a vibrational node." - salb918

by McFood on Aug 18, 2006 9:55 AM PDT up reply actions

Facials!

"The first night, we were right there," Bradley said. "All we needed was a couple of touchdowns, and we would have had them."

by jeepers on Aug 18, 2006 9:56 AM PDT up reply actions

Do you think he has

"Brandon Buckley, bullpen fluffer" on his business cards?

"The student is trying to keep up with the teacher," Swisher said. "It ain't easy chasing a dang Hall of Famer, though."

by Jennifer on Aug 18, 2006 9:57 AM PDT up reply actions

ooooh, I want his job....

or maybe i just want to hang around with the pitchers...

There's no crying in baseball!

by gigglingone on Aug 18, 2006 10:03 AM PDT up reply actions

Is Crosby the new Beane?

Day to day

by oblique on Aug 18, 2006 9:56 AM PDT reply actions

That's fine

When Beane retires, he can become our new GM.

by Crosbino on Aug 18, 2006 10:08 AM PDT up reply actions

ok, i'll ask

did anyone go to the movies last night?

There's no crying in baseball!

by gigglingone on Aug 18, 2006 10:03 AM PDT reply actions

Not me.

I was having some mf'in pad thai on my mf'in couch.

"The first night, we were right there," Bradley said. "All we needed was a couple of touchdowns, and we would have had them."

by jeepers on Aug 18, 2006 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions

Me neither.

I was watching mf'in Mary Louise Parker in mf'in Weeds.

Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Aug 18, 2006 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions

Me neither too

I was having mf'in heart attacks in the mf'in car being driven by my child.

Food burns just as surely at 5 mph as it does at 65 mph.

by Poppy on Aug 18, 2006 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions

When my dad taught me how to drive,

he was just getting over an accident where his car was totalled. Completely the other guy's fault. But he was such a paranoid wreck when he was teaching me to drive, figuring that the goon who did in his old car was still out there, that the learning process was more than a little scary.

Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Aug 18, 2006 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions

I was very, very fortunate...

...that my sisters are much older than me... so I did my practice driving with them instead of with my dad (who used to drive a cab and therefore has no patience whatsoever with any other drivers).

Food burns just as surely at 5 mph as it does at 65 mph.

by Poppy on Aug 18, 2006 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions

lol

when my dad taught me how to drive, he let me get in the drivers seat, he rolled down his window, stuck his head outside, and then passed over the keys and said "start it up". Oh, and this was after we said the "Thank you Family Mechanic, for that which we are about to receive" prayer, and he made me promise to never drive a vehicle without the mechanic approving it first....

There's no crying in baseball!

by gigglingone on Aug 18, 2006 10:53 AM PDT up reply actions

I'm going today

because I love me some m'f'ing Samuel-F'ing-L.-F'ing-Jackson.

"This must be heaven," he says.
"No. It's Oakland."

by Kyli on Aug 18, 2006 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions

Combine...

the tension of an airline thriller with the greatness of snake-centric movies such as "Anaconda 1-5" (Sci-fi channel got the rights to this film franchise), and my friends, you have box office GOLD.

"Hate the Angels, yeahhhhh!" -Sandfrog

by franks a lot on Aug 18, 2006 10:20 AM PDT up reply actions

BEST HEADLINE EVER

http://arizona.diamondbacks.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060817&content_id=1614850& amp;vkey=news_ari&fext=.jsp&c_id=ari

a friend of mine just forwarded me that. Shows the mlb.com writers still have a sense of humor :)

Marinerds - a different daily dose of baseblog.

by Deanna on Aug 18, 2006 5:18 PM PDT up reply actions

Y'know what?

When push comes to shove, I can easily root for the Red Sox to beat the Yankees. C'mon Red Sox, take down the flargergarbin' Yanks!

Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Aug 18, 2006 10:13 AM PDT reply actions

I would imagine so.

Probably helps you stay alive living in Cambridge.

"The first night, we were right there," Bradley said. "All we needed was a couple of touchdowns, and we would have had them."

by jeepers on Aug 18, 2006 10:24 AM PDT up reply actions

Game update:

True Yankee Derek Jeter drives in a run, but Fake Yankees Giambi and A-Rod make outs to kill a rally. 1-0 Yanks.

Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Aug 18, 2006 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions

It's sort of like plastic surgery

Fake assets cost a lot more and are prone to breaking.

"The first night, we were right there," Bradley said. "All we needed was a couple of touchdowns, and we would have had them."

by jeepers on Aug 18, 2006 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions

a pox on both their houses

I want the Red Sox to miss the play-offs in the worse way. I'm going to climb to the top of the Prudential with the biggest megaphone I can find and shout "HA-Ha" at the top of my lungs. And "Wear It!" for good measure.

"the poop stain on the collective AN pantalones." -ohad

by ArakSOT on Aug 18, 2006 10:53 AM PDT up reply actions

I know. I don't like the Yankees, but I prefer

one of these teams not make the playoffs, and if the Yankees sweep, that would put Boston, not only 6.5 back of the Yankees, but drop them further in the Wildcard standings.

by theblackpearl on Aug 18, 2006 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions

Ha ha.

Not to say I don't engage in RedSoxenfreude...and the best scenario is for neither team to make it...but I really really hate the Yankees. Seeing the wrist-slitting populace around here when the Sox get eliminated would be kind of fun, too. I haven't experienced that yet.

Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Aug 18, 2006 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions

Sheehan's losing it

It makes no sense to have paid Hinske for three years while he hit like a middle infielder, only to dump him when he's at his peak, signed for just one more season at reasonable money, and showing that he may well be in line for some Matt Stairs seasons.

It doesn't make sense to dump a perennial overacheiver when he's at his peak? I must have died and gone to hell.

link (sub req'd)

Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Aug 18, 2006 10:19 AM PDT reply actions

EDIT.

"overachiever" should be "underachiever."

Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Aug 18, 2006 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions

Hinke

I think Sheehan is saying that Hinske might finally have grown up to become a useful player; thus it makes no sense to dump him for basically nothing.

by rfloh on Aug 18, 2006 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions

Hinske is 28 this year,

has regressed in most statistical categories since arriving into the league, and can't hit lefties at all. He's a platoon player at this point. I doubt that he's matured into anything more than a slow righty-masher who can play four defensive positions but none of them very well.

Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Aug 18, 2006 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions

I agree

with you; I believe Riciardi is scrounging money for
next season.

by rfloh on Aug 18, 2006 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions

Steve Phillips on the Evil Empire broadcast:

"Wang has the best ground ball ratio in the major leagues"

Ever heard of Brandon Webb?? Hmmmmm? What a joke that guy is.

"No, I haven't been drinking or taking Ecstacy... " ~ Poppy

by eamb on Aug 18, 2006 10:35 AM PDT reply actions

TV Question - Today's Double Header (MLB EI)

So, the rainout game between Oakland v. KC which took place earlier in this season was on MLB EI (Fox Network).

Any chance they show this game - First Game - to replace earlier rainout game?
According to TiVO (Direct TV), Channel 743, MLB EI is scheduled for a 5:00 PM (PST) start time. Do they pick up the 1st game in progress (if necessary), or pick up 2nd Game when it starts?

Anyone know the deal?

COME ON, OAKLAND, COME ON!

by Colorado Fan on Aug 18, 2006 10:40 AM PDT reply actions

Typically...

...Extra Innings will wait until the second game begins, regardless of what time it starts. It won't join Game 1 in progress if it goes to 5 p.m. PDT.

Dorian on Bonds: "Still, I love it when Bonds wins at the game that he plays."

by FormerHuntsvilleStar on Aug 18, 2006 3:08 PM PDT up reply actions

aah, life of a rookie

eric o'flaherty of the M's at the coliseum!

by gotgreen on Aug 18, 2006 10:52 AM PDT reply actions

The Devil Rays had that too.

Some rookie wearing a Strawberry Shortcake backpack coming in from the bullpen, when they were up here last week. Is this the new fad this year or something?

Marinerds - a different daily dose of baseblog.

by Deanna on Aug 18, 2006 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions

Huston had to do it last year

I thought everyone was just copying us.

by hunter on Aug 18, 2006 2:12 PM PDT up reply actions

<sigh> Damn, I think I'm in love.

I can't resist rookies with the pink backpacks!

"This must be heaven," he says.
"No. It's Oakland."

by Kyli on Aug 19, 2006 12:50 AM PDT up reply actions

Bob Klapisch loves ESPN headline writers.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/index

Bob Klapisch: Wang not at all ordinary

"The first night, we were right there," Bradley said. "All we needed was a couple of touchdowns, and we would have had them."

by jeepers on Aug 18, 2006 11:40 AM PDT reply actions

Just noticed

the Athletics History pages haven't been updated since 2004

http://oakland.athletics.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/oak/history/awards.jsp

No Chavy GG? No Street ROY?

by Zonis on Aug 18, 2006 11:55 AM PDT reply actions

Nice catch

I just emailed them about it.

"No, I haven't been drinking or taking Ecstacy... " ~ Poppy

by eamb on Aug 18, 2006 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions

No MaEl, Comeback Player of 2005?

Oh, wait.

Food burns just as surely at 5 mph as it does at 65 mph.

by Poppy on Aug 18, 2006 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions

btw...

What are the Joe Cronin Award and The Hutch Award?

Food burns just as surely at 5 mph as it does at 65 mph.

by Poppy on Aug 18, 2006 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions

I'll take the last one.

Awarded annually to the Oakland A who displays the best taste in fine china.

"The first night, we were right there," Bradley said. "All we needed was a couple of touchdowns, and we would have had them."

by jeepers on Aug 18, 2006 12:15 PM PDT up reply actions

Oh, okay.

I thought it was awarded to the player who most embodies the spirit of bad acting & bad singing while wearing clothes from the 70's. I figured Zito should have won it at least once.

Food burns just as surely at 5 mph as it does at 65 mph.

by Poppy on Aug 18, 2006 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions

He'd be a natural if that was the case.

And Jose Canseco would probably win a Lifetime Achievement Award.

"The first night, we were right there," Bradley said. "All we needed was a couple of touchdowns, and we would have had them."

by jeepers on Aug 18, 2006 12:22 PM PDT up reply actions

Oh my.

Hinske has hit 3 doubles in his first three ABs for the Red Sox.

Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Aug 18, 2006 12:22 PM PDT reply actions

Our daily dose of PETA

A little something for the "I don't know art, but I know what I like" crowd...

Food burns just as surely at 5 mph as it does at 65 mph.

by Poppy on Aug 18, 2006 12:23 PM PDT reply actions

I like puppy gyros on my pita.

"The first night, we were right there," Bradley said. "All we needed was a couple of touchdowns, and we would have had them."

by jeepers on Aug 18, 2006 12:25 PM PDT up reply actions

Tired act.

Total ripoff of my old performance art show, where I cuddled with a stuffed tapir on Telegraph Avenue.

Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Aug 18, 2006 12:26 PM PDT up reply actions

I saw that one.

Total genious to get Blue Oyster Cult to do a rendition of "Don't Fear the Tapir" for you.

"The first night, we were right there," Bradley said. "All we needed was a couple of touchdowns, and we would have had them."

by jeepers on Aug 18, 2006 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions

or genius

"The first night, we were right there," Bradley said. "All we needed was a couple of touchdowns, and we would have had them."

by jeepers on Aug 18, 2006 12:31 PM PDT up reply actions

And when you lay down

and segued into into the Beatles' "Tapir Back-Writher" ... brilliant.

"Even if you know the deck is stacked in your favor, you still have to have the discipline to trust the math and the cojones to go to the ATM." BB

by green star oakland on Aug 18, 2006 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions

You were brilliant in that.

The ten-minute viewing allotment was not nearly enough to truly appreciate the poignant brutality represented by the cup of betadine the tapir held with his proboscis. At least, I think that was his proboscis.

The work left me with an undercurrent of pigginess

by Poppy on Aug 18, 2006 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions

Thank you.

Spurred on by my initial success, I took the show to a bigger market. But who knew that Los Angeles was filled with Philistines?

Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Aug 18, 2006 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions

good news for south bay people!

marty lurie said that KNTS 1220AM will broadcast ALL A's games starting tonight's second game vs. the royals!

by gotgreen on Aug 18, 2006 12:49 PM PDT reply actions

tv sked

we have both games today on fsba, correct?

by arch on Aug 18, 2006 1:09 PM PDT reply actions

Not according to the A's site

Only Game 2.

"The first night, we were right there," Bradley said. "All we needed was a couple of touchdowns, and we would have had them."

by jeepers on Aug 18, 2006 1:13 PM PDT up reply actions

first game's not on tv

by gotgreen on Aug 18, 2006 1:13 PM PDT up reply actions

nope...

On television
* Game 1: none * Game 2: FSN Bay Area

(Link)

(unless something's changed?)

The work left me with an undercurrent of pigginess

by Poppy on Aug 18, 2006 1:14 PM PDT up reply actions

ok...

yahoo mlb home page mentions its on fsba both games. thanks.

by arch on Aug 18, 2006 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions

FSN's lineup has Bocro starting at SS, and batting

7th, in front of Melhuse and Ellis. Did they DFA Jiminez, or does he still have options left?

by theblackpearl on Aug 18, 2006 1:20 PM PDT reply actions

Hmmm...

Coincidence?

by alamedagirl on Aug 18, 2006 2:20 PM PDT reply actions

It looks more like the Maltese Falcon...

The work left me with an undercurrent of pigginess

by Poppy on Aug 18, 2006 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions

Or Cousin It.

Dorian on Bonds: "Still, I love it when Bonds wins at the game that he plays."

by FormerHuntsvilleStar on Aug 18, 2006 3:11 PM PDT up reply actions

Looks more like

a dripped pile of chocolate?

by Zonis on Aug 18, 2006 5:00 PM PDT up reply actions

Ratto

http://www.sportsline.com/columns/story/9608204

by Larry E on Aug 18, 2006 3:20 PM PDT reply actions

A Much-Different Remembrance of Moneyball

Not that I think Apricot got any of the details wrong--far from it. It's just that I experienced the legacy of the book differently.

Previous to its publication, the A's had been a joy to follow, rewarding my unconditional love of the 90's-A's with the talent-overflowing '00 and '01 teams and the 20-game-win-streak of '02. But when the NYTimes excerpt was published with BB happily accepting credit for the team's success, I was a little bit turned off, and my feelings at the time were best been expressed by a certain RR. Days after the NYTimes Magazine published an excerpt of Moneyball, Ratto weighed in.

Using last year's franchise-shaking Ricardo Rincon trade as the jump-off point, author Michael Lewis painted a portrait, with Beane's eager cooperation, of an enormous jarred brain floating in an electrolyte solution, hoodwinking far less clever general managers, strong-arming owners, manipulating players and managers and charming secretaries into putty, all for a single left-handed setup man whose principal charm is that he isn't Mike Venafro.

The danger for Beane in this piece, which is part of a book excerpt, is so painfully evident that it threatens to do for him what equally massive publicity did for Cincinnati general manager Jim Bowden when he traded for Ken Griffey in 2000 -- namely, make him a laughingstock to those baseball people who didn't actively dislike him.

Beane's singular curse, this profound appreciation for the sight of his own name, is not necessarily an impediment to victory, or even his future. If the A's win, after all . . . well, put it this way: Even with a story so complimentary that it should have been sung, the essential truth for them is that there are 162 days and nights of right now to make everyone seem brilliant.

(emphasis mine)

I don't ever remember deciding to dislike BB from now on, but looking back, that is the way things have shaken out. What's more, my own prejudice has permanently colored my own participation on this website, where the loyalty and admiration to BB inevitably stoke my own dislike. In other words, had I never found this site, I might have forgotten Moneyball and moved on. But as it is, I argue with BB fans constantly, and a part of me then roots against the A's, hoping the results will prove me right. That part of me then struggles with the A's fan part of me, the part of me that has rooted for no baseball team but the A's since 1984, when I went to my first game at age 7.

In summary, I suppose I ought to seek help. But I think it's noteworthy that Moneyball, while undeniably a good read, may have alienated some fans just as it won others over to the A's cause.

"WTF is wrong with you people TASTELESS COMMENTS. I'm disgusted. Mocking a 10 year old's horrible painful death." --eshock

by rubin sierra on Aug 19, 2006 1:37 AM PDT reply actions

fascinating

Why should you get help? Sports are only fun if you have heroes and villains. I for one have an implacable dislike of Foulke for instance.

I don't doubt that Moneyball turned many people off the A's. However, in my personal experience, the people it turns off have all been longstanding baseball fans. In contrast Moneyball caught the interest of a number of people who thought baseball was a waste of time, and they found the A's symbolic of something noble. And in some way, since I myself was both of those kinds of people, Moneyball caused huge fascinating confusion in my head.

by Apricot on Aug 19, 2006 9:35 AM PDT up reply actions

"sports are

only fun if you have heroes and villains"

Also, playing Moneybutt is frustratingly difficult unless you have heroes and villains.

"WTF is wrong with you people TASTELESS COMMENTS. I'm disgusted. Mocking a 10 year old's horrible painful death." --eshock

by rubin sierra on Aug 19, 2006 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions

Excellent summary, but....

Your first bullet point is inaccurate.

"The A's spend less money than most other baseball teams." True. (In total payroll this year we're 21st out of 30.)

"The A's spend a LOT less money than some other baseball teams." True. (Yankees and Red Sox payrolls are obscenely high; Angels, White Sox, Mets and Dodgers also pay a heckuva lot more than we do.)

"The A's spend a LOT less money than most other baseball teams." False.

"...but we're also always open to hearing about other sandwiches if it can make our lunch better." -- Nico, channeling Billy Beane

by iglew on Aug 19, 2006 3:44 AM PDT reply actions