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Off season trade

This is an idea I have been kicking around since last season.  I know that most trade ideas surround players whose performances failed to met expectations, so most of the trade recommendations around here center around Jason Kendall, Bobby Keilty, Esteban Loiza, etc...  Feeding this fire are salaries that not are justified by performance.  But gains in the stock market are not made by selling low, they are made by reaosnable analysis of value, and recognizing overvalued commodities and selling them while their value is at its peak, and using the profit to purchase undervalued commodities.  

We should trade Huston Street.  

He is one of the young darlings of baseball.  He suprised everyone last year by seizing the reigns of responsibilty and performing admirably.  The baseball world has his name.  He represented the country in the wold cup of baseball.  He is seen as one of the rising stars.  

His low era was not suported by his peripherals as being repeatable, though he looks to be solid in the future.  A .200 BAA?  That seems very low.  A result, no doubt, of our defense and likley a little luck.  I still contend that his strange delivery gives him an early advantage that will fade when batters get more used to it. He averages almost 3 walks per nine.  That indicates a control problem that will catch up to him.  Not that he will ever be, oh, billy Koch, but I see him settling in at a repeatable 3.2 era, which is low, but not irreplaceable.  

He is a career closer.  His workoad was high at UT, but not that of a starter.  He has only thrown about 280 innings since he was 18.  The ligaments in his shoulders, and the mucles in his arm are not built through inning after inning of long work.  My guess is that too many high stress innings will erode his abilty to pitch effectively over time.  Not that he will ever be bad, but I think he will likley tire a bit.  Career starters who convert retain thier elite closer abilities longer than minor league releivers.  

He is cheap, and could net us quite a return.  

We have his replacement already.  MoneyBall brought attention to Billy Beane's penchant for pitching the closer in the 8th inning, racking up saves for the second best reliever, driving up the market, and selling off that 9th innign reliever.  Duke is our closer.  He can pitch multiple innings.  He can induce groundballs, and he can strike out batters.  He is not affected by the pressure. He too is cheap.  And sure, his back is a problem, but so was Keith Folke's and we offered him 32 million dollars to stay.  If his back falls apart, we have Kiko Colero in place.  I suspect Billy is already doing this.  I have noticed that Huston plays a lot of games where it might be useful to rest him, when we have a 2-3 run lead.  It seems we are aggresively racking up saves for the guy, even when proper usage patterns might incline a manager to sit him.  Now, maybe Beane and Macha are really playing out LaRussas justification for the closer, and maybe they both have street in thier roto leaugues, but I wonder if someone is no driving up his off season price.  If we were the Yankees, sure, hold on to him, and buy a great hitter also, but we are not, and we have to give to get.  

In short, use this a point of discussion, but not only do I think it might be a good idea, I think that management is already considering it.  

What do you think?

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"and maybe they both have street
in their roto leauges..." That was really funny.  I don't think they trade him until he gets expensive, and even then they will probably let him walk.

They also have a new closer to be...Rich Harden.  Look for his debut a couple of seasons and a few more stints on the DL.

Two-thirds of the earth is covered by water, the other third is covered by Kotsay.

by carp on Aug 16, 2006 9:49 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I don't fault you for thinking outside the box,...
that's how guys like Bill James got their starts.  I fault you for thinking we should trade Huston Street.

Remember, Moneyball, to paraphrase, is an ever-evolving group of coinciding philosophies. Just because closers are overvalued Monday doesn't mean they are on Tuesday.

Regardless, the way I look at it, having Huston Street for the next five years gives us one less thing to worry about. Additionally, other teams aren't going to give up close to what they would for a star closer as much as they would for a bona fide No. 1 starter. He's a keeper.

http://www.myspace.com/ryanmac10

by RyanFromBonas on Aug 16, 2006 9:51 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I agree that trading
Street is something to be explored.  Just not now.  There is no need to trade a pre-arb player because they make so little money.  And when they cash in on arb, they are still valuable in trades because they are under club control.

Duke or Calero will be dealt soon, though, as they are about to get expensive.  Remember, relievers are fungible and their performance is difficult to count on year to year.  Better to trade too early than too late.

Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Aug 16, 2006 9:56 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

if a reliever is gutty ...
... would that make him fungiblets?
aka Baron Monkey Von Ballheimer -- FormerHuntsvilleStar @('.')@

by monkeyball on Aug 16, 2006 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

oh. my. god.
{reattaches arm after long reach}
Food burns just as surely at 5 mph as it does at 65 mph.

by Poppy on Aug 16, 2006 1:03 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

<starts Poppy-for-closer campaign>
aka Baron Monkey Von Ballheimer -- FormerHuntsvilleStar @('.')@

by monkeyball on Aug 16, 2006 4:56 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

This reminds me of my college days.
Back at school, there were flower beds all over the place.  The grounds crews would plant hundreds, maybe thousands of bulbs and seeds, and we all eagerly anticipated the blooming of the new crop.  When it was finally time, the stems came up through the dirt, and slowly, day by day, the flower beds came closer to fulfilling the promise of a vivid burst of color and fragrance that could affect everyone's mood for a half a mile.

And every time, just before the flowers all opened up into full bloom, the grounds keepers would plow them under and start the process over again.

Many people on this site are the same way with players and trades, and it's just as frustrating!

Day to day

by oblique on Aug 16, 2006 10:34 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

If only they had let the garden grow!
Food burns just as surely at 5 mph as it does at 65 mph.

by Poppy on Aug 16, 2006 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was thinking the same thing
we have to trade either Street, Calero or Duke this winter.Absolutely. Losing one of the three wouldn't be that bad for our bullpen. Even if Street is cheap, if we can get a top-prospect starting pitcher for him, i'll do it anytime. I'm sure Billy too.

by AsMontreal on Aug 16, 2006 10:39 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

If this season has taught me
anything, it's that the key to success lies in having 3 frontline relievers. What a difference it makes to be able to have one guy unavailable (because he won the game for you last night) and still be able to make it a 7-inning game.

I think it will be a while before "3 frontline relievers" are overvalued, because I think having that kind of trio is incredibly valuable.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 16, 2006 10:47 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Who would you rather have
Street or Haren ?If we can get another young Haren, you have to go for it.  I know that the holy-trinity has been exceptional this year and extremely valuable but who's gonna be the 5th starter next year and what happen if(when?) Rich gets hurt again. If you want a top-prospect, you have to give something with value and the only thing we can afford to loose with value is one of these three pitchers. I know that for every Haren there's a Meyer but it's a risk I'm willing to take.

by AsMontreal on Aug 16, 2006 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Interesting
But Street's value will continue to grow and it will happen while his salary remains low.  The timing of any potenial deal is about a year too soon, in my opinion.

Now Harden on the other hand, once he can show his arm is healthy, would be a much better trade-piece candidate.  You may flame me for even suggesting it but really dig through his game logs before you do it -- he hasn't shown to be consistent enough to warrant all of the positive attention that's paid to him.  Even though he is a really young starter, I believe the pundits and fans are overly enamored with his 'stuff' rather than focusing on his actual effectiveness.

4 8 15 16 23 42

by LowcountryJoe on Aug 16, 2006 10:59 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

its called a sophmore slump
it happens a lot... ya we sure will trade huston street cause of his 2nd year troubles...
"The are only two places in this league. First place and no place." -Tom Seaver

by greekpride08 on Aug 16, 2006 11:00 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Additon By Subtraction
   I think we should keep all 3 as long as we can unless Beane gets a pitcher of greater value for any one of these 3 pitchers(kiko/Duke/Street).
   The trade should be for the removal of the contracts of Witasick/Sauerbeck/Kennedy etc. The money saved can be used for keeping these guys together. Look at how the Angels bullpen has digressed duye to loss of depth. If we shorten games to 6 innings for our starters, then we'll continue to negate our offensive difficulties given our stellar defense.
"I've been accused of using too many words...I suppose that's like accusing Mozart of using too many notes." Bill King

by Gerard on Aug 16, 2006 11:02 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

nice, concise post
Two-thirds of the earth is covered by water, the other third is covered by Kotsay.

by carp on Aug 16, 2006 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Also...
Think about the additional bullpen depth next year.

Rotation:

Haren
Harden
Blanton
Loaiza
??

Bullpen:

Street
Duke
Calero
Saarloos
Halsey
Windsor
Komine
Casilla

Personally, I think you move Duke back to the rotation -- is there a doubt in anyone's mind that he couldn't put up a 3.75 ERA as a starter??

by NP15 on Aug 16, 2006 11:41 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Duke's Back.
There was an article out last year that talked about how Duke became an Athletic.  Basicly he was in a car accident and injured his back which dropped his velocity.  He didn't tell anyone in Texas about it and his velocity continued to suffer until he came to the A's.  He finally told the A's about his injury and now in order to pitch he has to have an epidural like 4 times a year.

Although I'm sure Duke would like to start, I think it's VERY unlikely his back could hold up under the stress.  Also, we want to keep his back in good shape becasue we saw what happened to Bradford when he had back surgery.  The minute Duke's back gets bad enough to the point he needs surgery his carear is most likely over.

Now Beane has said that Gaudin has the best arm on the team for someone not named Rich Harden, if anyone in the pen starts next year it will be Gaudin.

by Threepwood XX on Aug 16, 2006 12:51 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Chad Gaudin
He's not on your list - I would like to see Gaudin battle for the 5th Starter Spot w/ Windsor & Komine.

Gaudin would probably win.

COME ON, OAKLAND, COME ON!

by Colorado Fan on Aug 17, 2006 5:55 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

This idea makes no sense
Why in God's name would Beane trade Street? Street is young, cheap, virtually injury free and has pitched the third highest innings total of all AL relievers. And you want to hand the ball to a guy with a wonky back which will get nothing but worse and who needs to eat anti-inflammatory like candy just to pitch. Not smart.  

This "9th inning closers are overpaid and not that important" argument is a joke. Teams that pay their closers well have one thing in common- they're all winners with a shot at the post season. Teams that have a bullpen that consist mainly of a closer, two righty setup and two lefty setup pitchers are well rounded and very effective.

Beane trades two of his closers: Taylor and Koch and some people want to make this out to be some type of great scheme or grand idea. Meanwhile Beane also wanted to sign Izzy and Folke long term and Folke rarely sees a meaningful inning @ 8 million per ine Boston.

Beane has made some great decisions and some terrible ones (anyone see Bonderman pitch lately???). I seriously doubt "he is already thinking about trading" Street. That would be stupid.      

"The Matt Watson/Chiba Lotte Marines Fan Club"-The Committee is accepting new memberships (please pay in Yen). "Raking" numbers soon to be posted.

by bigelephant on Aug 16, 2006 11:43 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

probably nothing and no one is
completely untouchable.

That said, good cheap young players under A's control for years who are only going to get better in the next few years are the ones the team will want to keep.

by OaklandSi on Aug 16, 2006 11:45 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

No one is untouchable...
but having the closer role resolved for the next 5-7 years is pretty nice... horrible idea... I would do that with Harden, after he once again shows brilliance before shipping Street...

We have proven this year that a great bullpen (which must contain Street and Duke) can make up for a ton of other deficiencies...

by dhannonpdx on Aug 16, 2006 12:18 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Wow... I actually like this idea
No, I'd hate to see Street go...  but closers are HIGHLY overrated.  Street is young and cheap, so he could net us quite a nice bat in return.  Or could be packaged with some over priced talent (Loaiza/Kendall).  

I'd trade him if the A's can either get back a star with the trading away team covering a lot of salary.  I wouldn't let him go without getting an All Star in return.

Proudly celebrating my 20th year as an A's fan.

by bzn5150 on Aug 16, 2006 1:03 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

tell us why...
..."but closers are HIGHLY overrated". What is the rational behind that statement?
"The Matt Watson/Chiba Lotte Marines Fan Club"-The Committee is accepting new memberships (please pay in Yen). "Raking" numbers soon to be posted.

by bigelephant on Aug 16, 2006 1:14 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I agree
with anything resembling a closer the A's make the playoffs in 04, much less a good closer like huston.
Teaching Macha Tae Kwon Do since 1981.

by speedracer on Aug 16, 2006 1:17 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I read a chapter in BP's "Baseball
Behind the Numbers" and they suggested that closers are almost always used at the wrong time of the game.  They suggested that they should be against the heart of the order when there are more (as opposed to less) outs left in the game.  They estimated this would give teams between 3-5 wins.  I'm skeptical at stats, but I bought into this one.  If teams used closers like this, they would probably be paid less, and thereby not be over-rated like they are now.

The Angels used K-Rod as a 6th, 7th, 8th inning reliever in '02 with much success while allowing the "closer" Percival to maintain the formal role.

I'm not saying trade Street, but I do think the ace of the bullpen should be used at the (estimated) critical point earlier in the contest.  I proposed as making Rich Harden that guy, in hopes it would prevent injury while maintaining Win Exp.

Two-thirds of the earth is covered by water, the other third is covered by Kotsay.

by carp on Aug 16, 2006 1:27 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think the answer lies
somewhere in between. Only using your closer for the game's final outs often leaves you not needing the closer because the game is lost in the 6th, 7th, 8th.

BUT...not all innings are equal. Most pitchers who can be highly effective in the 7th/8th are NOT as effective in the 9th. Arthur Rhodes and LaTroy Hawkins are couple of the more recent examples.

My conclusion: Conventional Wisdom--using your closer at the end--is right 95% of the time. The really good manager would use the closer at the end of the game almost all the time, but would identify that other 5% and not be afraid to stray from the CW.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 16, 2006 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree that you need someone
to handle the pressure at the end of the game, and I think Duke or Calero and maybe soon Gaudin can do that.  Rhodes obviously didn't have that ability.

The pressure-thing can work against the opposing team, as they start to press at the end of the game and the odds of winning the game are significantly reduced wrt 6th, 7th, or 8th innings.  That was the big point in the BP chapter.

Two-thirds of the earth is covered by water, the other third is covered by Kotsay.

by carp on Aug 16, 2006 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with
95-100% of what Nico wrote.
"The Matt Watson/Chiba Lotte Marines Fan Club"-The Committee is accepting new memberships (please pay in Yen). "Raking" numbers soon to be posted.

by bigelephant on Aug 16, 2006 6:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

uh
I didn't write that closer are overrated, highly or otherwise.  I ran a search on this string, and the only use of the phrase overrated comes from your replies.  I did mention that certian commodities are overvalued, and I stand by that, that Huston's actual and perceived value are at variance.  I stand by that.  I think he is very good, but I think he is percieved to be of more value to a team than he actually is.  I still think we should think about trading him for someone who is accurately valued, or undervalued.  

Look, no one doubts the man is good, and that he provides a valuable service to this team.  I suffered from heart attack after heart attack when we ran Billy Koch out there for a year.  But the fact is that if Huston had the same numbers, but pitched the 8th inning, teams would give up less talent for him.  Well, its not a fact, but I think that would be the case.  Duke was amazingly consistent and effective last year, and yet I doubt that we could have gotten much for him since he was a reliever and not a closer (notable excpetion of the Cincinnatti Reds who would have given us their entire roster it appears).

Closers are very valuable.  They help teams go to championships.  But so do hitters, and we have a good pullpen, but we need 4 outs to drive anyone home on a consitent basis.  I asked myself who on the team would fetch the most, and cost us the least in dropoff to replace.  THe answer, to me, is Huston.  

by mikedaviswhereareyou on Aug 16, 2006 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Perception
"I think he is very good, but I think he is percieved to be of more value to a team than he actually is.  I still think we should think about trading him for someone who is accurately valued, or undervalued. "

I felt that way about Joe Blanton, meaning that he is perceived better that he actually is, and that we should get someone who is actually comparable to Blanton's perceived value.

The main problem is that Blanton and Street are both cheap, meaning we would have to get young, promising pitching talent in return, and we all know the path that Dan Meyer is currently taking.

Two-thirds of the earth is covered by water, the other third is covered by Kotsay.

by carp on Aug 16, 2006 1:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Closers are highly over rated because...
Look at the A's history over the last 30 years, specifically the last 15 years.  It would seem that just about anyone can be a closer.  You can take a has been starter (Eck) and make him a closer.  You can take a washed up middle relief pitcher (Isringhausen) and make him a closer.

Look around the league and you'll see the same kind of thing.  Find someone that has some nasty stuff, either a big heater or a loopy curveball, and they can be effective for one inning the majority of the time.  So a closer's true value over a replacement player is over stated by the stats.  Hence, closers are over rated and over paid.  

I hope and pray that Oakland never, EVER has a closer that they pay more than $1.5 million a year to.  That is a waste of money.  

I relate it to golf.  Every body makes a big deal about how far and how straight you hitter your driver off a tee.  But wait... driving is at best only 25% of your hits in golf.  50% of your shots are with your irons.  And another 25% are with your putter.  So by that rationale, if you are unbelievable with your irons... then you've got half your game in order.  

Here's my point... in a 162 game season, there are usually only 40 to 50 one or two run games, where the closer really matters (if that!).  The other 110 to 120 games... the starter matters most.  And the middle relief soak up one to two innings as well.  So middle relief is essentially just as valuable as the closer.  So think of the starter as your irons, the middle relief as your driver and the closer as your putter.  

But I digress... my point is this... in one inning, generally all that a closer pitches, the difference between the best closer in the league and someone in the middle of the pack is not great enough to warrant a multiple million dollar difference in salary.  Better to spend the extra money on a starter (or on a hitter!) than to waste it on a closer.

But hey, I'm sure some numbers jockey can set me straight with VORP stats and other fun facts.

Proudly celebrating my 20th year as an A's fan.

by bzn5150 on Aug 17, 2006 6:58 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

wow
some people must long for the days of Rhodes and Dotel.  That's what happened when we pretended we didn't need a closer.  Duke is here now, but his back issues are scary.  I dont know about Calero closing games.  I love the guy, but he's too dependent on the slider and we could end up with multiple games where he walks 2 people to start the 9th.

I totally agree with the person who made the garden flowers analogy some posts before.  Let the team play for a few years with most of it's key players.  Make adjustments, but dont tear it in half the minute someone has some success.  

And I am not sure how many more Dan Harens there are out there to be traded for.  Why would you even risk it?  Keep street while he's affordable.

Teaching Macha Tae Kwon Do since 1981.

by speedracer on Aug 16, 2006 1:15 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

The best way to acquire
"Dan Haren"s is to draft them. The A's need to get back to identifying the available Harens in the college draft. Post Hudson-Zito-Mulder-Harden, the A's were sitting pretty. Following Blanton, the next group has been Rheineker-Windsor-Komine-Braden, and they haven't quite lived up to Hudson-Zito-Mulder-Harden.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Aug 16, 2006 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

agree 100%
go and draft them.  they may be hard to find in the draft, but it's not like they will be easily found in a trade either.
Teaching Macha Tae Kwon Do since 1981.

by speedracer on Aug 16, 2006 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I partially agree...
In the A's situation... yes, best to get them in the draft.  But those darn Yankees continue to prove that money talks and farm systems mean nothing if you can go out and rent the best players in town.
Proudly celebrating my 20th year as an A's fan.

by bzn5150 on Aug 17, 2006 6:59 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

also
if Beane still thought that closers were HIGHLY overrated, why would he waste such a high draft pick on Huston?
Teaching Macha Tae Kwon Do since 1981.

by speedracer on Aug 16, 2006 1:25 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I don't think closers are highly overrated
set-up man and closers are really useful as this season as proven. It's just that next season rotation  looks like this right now:
Harden, Haren, Blanton, Loaiza, (Sarloos,Windsor,Komine, Halsey, Gaudin as the 5th guy)
Now I'm fine with one out of Sarloos, Windsor, Komine, Halsey, Gaudin in the rotation. Not two. But now if Rich gets injured like the last two seasons we have a very weak rotation. We're really starting to depend on Rich's health to have a good season. If you want have a deep rotation, there's only Street-Calero-Duke that can net something really good(though I would more trade Calero or Duke).

by AsMontreal on Aug 16, 2006 1:48 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Lest ye forget how valuable closers are,,,,
For all of you who think closers are overrated, I have two words for you : Arthur Rhodes ( how quickly we forget)

by Imaseasonticketholder on Aug 16, 2006 5:28 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

My only concern
is how much we are using Street, way too much for a 22 year old arm, he is an arm injury waiting to happen.  He is getting guys out still but it is getting more and more difficult, he is not blowing them away like last year.  I think he has a tired arm right now.
I believe he is being overused, and that scares me.

by china bob on Aug 16, 2006 10:46 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

it is tempting...
despite losing Zito and having Harden in the 'pen, the staff would definitely be built from the back to front.  It would be really nice if Meyer was at Harden's point circa 2005, but we have to be patient.
Two-thirds of the earth is covered by water, the other third is covered by Kotsay.

by carp on Aug 16, 2006 11:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bullpen woes
My one concern and only concern was the bullpen this year as they had many questions going in (An effective Loogy, a 2nd year closer, and Duke's back problems). Yes, Street has struggled but he was like that at the end of the year or towards the end of the year as he was looked at as the savior of a wobbly bullpen and he has done a couple 2 inning saves here and there.
"Talk about impressive. My point is this: Break's over."- Josiah Bartlet

by doublehustle22 on Aug 16, 2006 11:18 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I think the look at Rhodes argument is tired
and wrong.  Just because we happened to have used the wrong particular guy as a closer, once, doesn't increase the value of closers in general.  I think Street is one of our more valuable trade pieces.  In fact, he's really our only valuable and tradeable commodity.  Clearly, we aren't trading Haren, and probably not trading Harden.

It's almost impossible to argue that closers are not overvalued.  Top-notch closers make roughly the same amount of money as top-notch starters, while working one-half to one-third of the innings.  Someone smarter than me can probably make this argument clearly using Win Exp and Win Shares.

At some point the A's are going to have to address some holes.  Personally, I think the most pressing holes are on offense.  Sure, the key to our teams success this year has been the bullpen, but that's mainly because we don't score many runs.  If we had a legitimate hitter in the OF, or Catcher, or 2B, or SS, plus we're going to need a DH soon.  The only help I see on the way is maybe Barton or Buck.  Of the two, I have high hopes for Buck, but I'm not sure that Barton will really hit enough to be a force at either First or DH.

Street could bring us an impact bat.  Would anyone in here at AN hate a Street for Carl Crawford trade?  I'm not saying for sure that Tampa would do that deal, but there are other teams out there with a lot of hitting talent, but no closers (Arizona, Cleveland, and Milwaukee come to mind).

I don't love the idea of Duke as a closer.  He just doesn't have the kind of stuff that you associate with a closer, but he seems like he could handle the duties.  Personally, I see Gaudin as a potential lights our closer.  I'm still holding out hope for Casilla.  Maybe Italiano in a year or two.  We seem to be in a position where we can afford to lose Huston and replace him internally, so I wouldn't be against moving him to fill a hole (offense, maybe starting pitching), which we don't appear to have an in-house answer for.

A kitten bats around a ball of yarn but what he's really saying is, "You know I can't knit, motherf'er." That is one foul mouthed kitten. - Mitch Hedberg

by RayRay59 on Aug 17, 2006 1:39 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Damn typo!!
A kitten bats around a ball of yarn but what he's really saying is, "You know I can't knit, motherf'er." That is one foul mouthed kitten. - Mitch Hedberg

by RayRay59 on Aug 17, 2006 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think it's a good idea and good analysis
Ultimately it comes down to what we're offered for him. If no one offers anything then he's not "overrated" so we keep him; if a team offers a bundle of great players for our star closer, then he's overrated and we trade him. No need to argue about it now, just wait and see what the offers are.

But more generally, yes, I agree that Street is an excellent candidate for making a good trade with.

As to whether management is considering it, well, of course they are. Billy is always considering trading everyone. Doesn't mean he'll actually do it, but there's no one who isn't under consideration.

"...but we're also always open to hearing about other sandwiches if it can make our lunch better." -- Nico, channeling Billy Beane

by iglew on Aug 17, 2006 3:23 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Winner
The idea of trading Street isn't the problem, it's not knowing who we'd get in return. Just to throw a name out there... what if we could get David Wright in a heads up swap?

Who cares if we've got Chavez at 3rd, Wright would be a cheap, impact bat that no one would have a problem with acquiring at the cost of Street.

Why yes. I am a ray of warm and fuzzy sunshine.

by grover on Aug 17, 2006 6:00 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Obviously Wright isn't getting traded for Street.
I guess the real question is who is the worst player/contract that the A's should trade Street for.  My vote would be someone like Melky Cabrera.

by WaddellCanseco on Aug 18, 2006 4:04 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

street getting better each month
Perhaps it's meaningless and maybe there are reasonable explanations, but Huston's ERA has gotten better each month of the season.  If the trend continues, he's gonna have one helluva September...

April   7.94
May     3.65
June    2.12
July    1.98
August  1.86

by inbillywetrust on Aug 17, 2006 6:55 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

duke on the otherhand...
i should probably also point out that duke's trend has been the reverse.  his era has gotten worse every month..i'm notably excluding the month of June in which his ERA was 9.00 in 2 IP (he did miss part of May, but his ERA in May stuck with the trend so i'm keeping it in the analysis).  =))

by inbillywetrust on Aug 17, 2006 6:59 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

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