Hear ye, hear ye: WE'RE IN FIRST PLACE.
by Ozzz on Jul 22, 2006 12:13 PM PDT
99 comments
A quick look down the recent diaries thread right now will make you ask yourself a very odd question: Is this an A's FAN SITE?
Even odder, the answer to that question at the moment is 'no'. And that, good people, is abso-fricking-lutely insane.
I see goofballs posting diaries suggesting Billy Beane should have sent Swisher to the DL instead of Johnson. I see diaries talking about how there's nothing to like in the current A's team, and it was all so much better when we had Stairs and Berroa. I see people bitching that they're "losing patience" with this team.
Well I have just one thing to say - we, the Oakland Athletics, with injuries galore, no money, precious few fans showing up to games, a depleted AAA team, and slumps aplenty, is still in...
FIRST PLACE!
So can we quit with the second guessing of Beane like he's some chump that every other team in the game WOULDN'T snap up in a flash?
Can we stop it already with the "Dan Johnson is mashing in AAA, so he shouldn't have been dropped" rubbish?
Can we give it a rest on the "I hate watching this team" routine just long enough for half the players in the starting lineup to get over their injuries?
Can we end the "We can't win without Rich Harden" junk?
Can we give it a freaking rest with the "Milton Bradley was a terrible deal" talk, at least while he's going 4-4 every other day?
Can we puh-lease maybe observe the fact that the Mariners stink, and the Rangers are being talked down even by their own management, and that the Angels are getting smoked by the freaking Royals, and maybe... just maybe, once in a while, point out that:
WE. ARE. IN. FIRST. PLACE.
Imagine, just for one second, that the players come here once in a while, just to see what the fans are saying about them. Now think to yourself - do my five most recent posts seem more likely to inspire them to greatness, or make them say "screw you and your four-figure crowds, you f'ing ingrates."
I'm an Oakland fan, and thus I will find the silver lining on the clouds every single time - but right now I don't NEED to find any GD lining, because my team, my INJURED team, my SLUMPING team, my INEXPENSIVE team, my YOUNG team, my PROSPECT-FREE team, is in first frickin' place.
And they're not falling from a higher first, they're CHASING to get into first. With all the crap we've had to endure this year, they're MOVING UP.
So the next time you see an attention-seeker talk about how we're not first enough, call them what they are:
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So...
You need a drink, or five.
by Pucking Insane on Jul 22, 2006 1:18 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Be as realistic as you want.
Me? I'd like to be able to enjoy today's win without another Oaktoon diary telling me that Swisher should have been benched and DJ should have taken his place.
by Ozzz on Jul 22, 2006 4:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Endemic to the nature of Fan Forums
We go thru the same thing on Halos Heaven. Our doomsaying nabob masquerading as an objecitve analyst insists he is no less a fan than the blindly fanatical who cheer every sliver of good news except his posts - while also preteding to be unbiased students of the game.
by RevHalofan on Jul 22, 2006 11:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh! Hollywood Oz
We beg forgiveness.
Had we only known this was your Blog sooner!
We would not be here.
by A s Eh on Jul 23, 2006 12:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Congratulations.
You're in great company.
by Ozzz on Jul 23, 2006 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
More extreme nonsense
by A s Eh on Jul 23, 2006 4:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Thanks for your drive-by comment.
by Ozzz on Jul 23, 2006 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hey!
by scutaroknowstheway on Jul 22, 2006 1:30 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Though I was the poster of the diary
I was trying to make the point that there is something about this year that's different. There just ins't the same feeling about the team, and on this site you just see so many ANers frustrated with so many different players.
For all sorts of reasons, this has been a really tough year for the A's and their fans. There just isn't that great of a vibe from the team. It's very up and down.
From what I know from people who know the feeling in the clubhouse is sometimes like the feeling here.
Now, of course this can all change. Winning is the best deoderant, and I'm sure that things is Chicago were an absolute disaster as Cleveland chased them down and they stumbled and stumbled last year.
But in the end, it all ended up beautiful. That's what I think we have to hope for. That it all ends up working out, that players stay healthy, that Chavez gets better, that Harden returns, and that the whole feeling for the team feels less ominous, as it too often does.
Hope, that helps explain what you're seeing and, rightly, what you're fed up with.
by RLangford on Jul 22, 2006 1:44 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Thank you.
by EastCoastA on Jul 22, 2006 2:01 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
My franchise right or wrong?
But it's not disloyalty to worry about the team's failings. The Fair Weather Fan Label for those with different opinions is wrong, a low stakes sports version of "are you now or have you ever been." And even if oaktoon does hail from Wisconsin, the Senator Joe ugliness is uncalled for.
Some think the A's have no chance at a World Series berth this year, and would rather build for a future run. I don't agree. But the Rebuild Now faction are every bit as loyal A's fans as anyone else here.
by FreeSeatUpgrade on Jul 22, 2006 2:15 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
They're not disloyal; they're tiresome
by RLangford on Jul 22, 2006 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
"Fair weather" is to sports jargon
by FreeSeatUpgrade on Jul 22, 2006 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Exactly
Sure, we all have ideas how the team could be better, and we all have our moments of "oh come on" when Chavez won't get DLed, but if you look through, let's say Oaktoon's diaries, you get a daily dose of cynical bitching, sometimes with a grounding of truth, but generally desperate swinging at anyone connected with the club because we're not 20 wins in first place.
In Oaktoon's own words (from earlier this year), if you told me this team would be where it is, after the struggles that have best us, I wouldn't have believed you, yet here we sit, having just beat the best team in the league.
Nowhere in my diary do I say love it or leave it. What I'm saying is, sheesh, back the hell off from the daily "Billy Beane is shite" diaries already and enjoy what the team is doing for a change.
I guarantee you that Texas and Seattle would swap with us in a second.
by Ozzz on Jul 22, 2006 4:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Questions & comments
- Since Oaktoon's Diaries cause you such grief why do you read them all?
- Are there any good reasons you can't skip them?
- Regardless of what you think we will decide for ourselves if we like something.
by A s Eh on Jul 23, 2006 1:21 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Answers:
And if I disagree with what they say, I'm not offended by that. I can disagree, and even say so, in a mature and intelligent fashion.
But your suggestion that I should just not read anything I don't like is a little silly. It's like telling someone, "Hey, this guy likes to write things that include insults of your mother, but you should just ignore what he's saying."
No, bullshit, I won't do that. If someone on a Red Sox blog wants to slag my team, I'll steer clear, but when the slagging comes from fellow fans, and when it's repeated, often wrong, and designed to annoy, I reserve the right to once in a while say, "oh, could you just pipe down - or quit repeating yourself?"
3. Hey, like whatever you wanna like. Me? I like the Oakland A's. And I'll defend them when someone's talking crap about them.
What shocks me is that you wouldn't.
by Ozzz on Jul 23, 2006 3:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Look through your comments history
3. Thanks for making my point:
"What shocks me is that you wouldn't."
Be "shocked" half the time and you will be half right.
by A s Eh on Jul 23, 2006 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Snore.
by Ozzz on Jul 23, 2006 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Sure;
Defense rests
by A s Eh on Jul 23, 2006 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The defense is lazy.
by Ozzz on Jul 23, 2006 4:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I agree 100%
by SwisherSweet33 on Jul 22, 2006 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
No.
Nobody has trouble with dissent. Nobody says "never criticize."
But ONLY criticizing, while the team is in first, no less, is infantile and serves no purpose but to smear poopy on the walls of the party.
We're in first. Live it up.
by Ozzz on Jul 22, 2006 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You are tiring just as oaktoon is tiring...
by SwisherSweet33 on Jul 22, 2006 5:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sure
You must have failed reading comprehension at some point in your life-- I defy you to show one word, phrase or sentence that even hinted that Swisher should be put on the DL. In fact I made it pretty clear that I thought he should lose some ABs to Kielty on occasion. Please don't spread crap in your ranting, OK? We all can rant but we should be careful about we characterize what other people say.
by oaktoon on Jul 22, 2006 2:23 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
So if you dont win the WS...
by OaktownPower on Jul 22, 2006 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Only one team ...
Do you remember the feeling you had in your stomach after each of those 4 Game 5 losses? It wasn't good and it lingered with me for days. Success equals championships.
If you want to continue your living and arguing that a successful season is making the playoffs I am not wasting my time - especially with the expectations we had coming into this season.
Go A's / Go Bears - BCS Champions 07
by SwisherSweet33 on Jul 22, 2006 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
apologize for grammatical errors
by SwisherSweet33 on Jul 22, 2006 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Okay,
Try to be civil, please.
by Jjjsixsix on Jul 22, 2006 8:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you can only enjoy a season when you win the WS
There's 162 games in a year, each one of which can be a blast, whether you win or lose.
If the result is all you care about, be a Yankee. If how you get there is important, be a ball fan.
by Ozzz on Jul 22, 2006 4:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Get you fireed up?
I totally disagree that a season can only be a success if a team wins it all. Sure, those game 5 losses hurt a LOT. But looking back...I consider many of those seasons huge successes that fell a tad short. But overall...definitely a success.
by OaktownPower on Jul 22, 2006 5:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Read your own words:
Why did Dan Johnson get sent down? He had slumped lately, but overall since his early struggles was hitting close to 300.Nick Swisher-- another Beane favorite-- on the other hand has been in steady decline for two months and has some obvious behavorial/discipline issues.
You can't hide from your own diaries.
Like, maybe, this one.
Be honest.... It's april 1 and I tell you the following:
1. We won't have Harden for most of the first two months and his impact for the rest of the season would be doubtful;
2. loaiza will be singularly ineffective and then he'll go on the shelf for more than a month in April/May;
3. Street will need to be shutdown for a couple of weeks;
4. We'll lose Duke, Witasick and Kennedy-- all for at least a month and perhaps closer to two months;
5. We'll lost Bradley for a month;
6. Crosby will get hurt twice and have to miss games;
7. Chavez will get deathly ill and miss a few games, then deal with a very tough back injury that will limit his performance;
8. We'll lose Ellis for at least a month;All of this before June 15th-- and sure, at least a couple of players will do better than expected (Swisher/Thomas, to be specific) and a couple of minor league pitchers will fill some key holes--but given all that, if I then said that at 4pm, June 15th, the team would be...
35-31 and tied for first, your reaction would be??
I'm willing to bet "disbelief" would be the leading answer, if you're truthful with yourself.
They get at all healthy, they easily win 90 games and sweep very strong into the playoffs.
Hypocrisy sucks ass.
by Ozzz on Jul 22, 2006 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And more!
Could this team be the equal of Chicago or Detroit-- or even better? (And no, I don't see either NY or Boston. One of them will make the playoffs but the pitching flaws are too great for them to go far)I think the answer is fast becoming a clear yes. Reasonable health from here on out and they should win 92-94 games. Slightly better health than that and they still have a legit chance to go far in the playoffs.
Mediocre teams rarely win 10 in a row or 15 of 17; Even good teams don't do it that often.
Beane's push for depth is really paying off.
by Ozzz on Jul 22, 2006 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
wow-- why do you care so much??
Obviously over the past month or so I have changed my mind.
which has something to do with the season being almost two-thirds done and this team still barely being over .500.
by oaktoon on Jul 22, 2006 4:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Here's why:
Every. Single. Day you post another diary with another reason why you hate Billy Beane. You don't let it sit three days until you think of something worth saying, or that needs saying - you manufacture reasons to post.
And instead of how it used to be - items that might make someone think, or bring about reasoned debate, now it's almost always stuff that just makes no sense at all.
You wanna know why Dan Johnson got sent down? Because he couldn't hit. Because other teams were putting the shift on him because he couldn't go oppy field. Because, as a first baseman, he's among the least productive in the league. That's why.
But you, spotting your chance to manufacture another rant, come out saying that Swisher should have been benched and Johnson should have stayed up.
Never mind that being demoted seems to have got Johnson swinging hard again. Never mind that the move worked, allowing an on-fire Kielty to get back into the thick of things.
To you, it's just another excuse to bash Beane, or imply Blez is sucking up to him. It's old. It's redundant, and when your own words show that you were bitching against the very same thing just a month ago, it's hypocrisy.
by Ozzz on Jul 22, 2006 5:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oaktoon
Nice work, Oz. This has been a long time coming. Though I've been a big supporter of oaktoon in the past, the guy is definitely due an ass-whipping for two weeks of incessant blathering and bitching about Beane and the season in general.
And to his defenders. Stop making Oz out to be someone trying to quash dissent. What bullshit. He's just calling out someone who excessively dominates this site with his endless overreactions.
by RLangford on Jul 22, 2006 4:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
and you too, Brutus??
That's what I see.
You defend Chavez, Loaiza, Crosby, Ellis, or the team's approach to injuries, the DL, or hitting.
I can't anymore. Does that make me less of a fan? In your view, yes. So we choose to disagree.
by oaktoon on Jul 22, 2006 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
431 runs against
by oaktoon on Jul 22, 2006 4:54 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And destroyed Shakespeare too.
by Ozzz on Jul 22, 2006 7:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
RLangford
by A s Eh on Jul 23, 2006 1:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Funny.
Gotcha. Thanks for playing. I'll be sure to run all future diaries I write past you before submission, so we can be sure they're not going to cause Oaktoon any distress.
by Ozzz on Jul 23, 2006 3:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oaktoon likes it
Have a cool day - I think it is 125% today.
by A s Eh on Jul 23, 2006 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
the frustration
This year everything was supposed to fall into place. Hell, ESPN the mag predicted we were going to win the WS. The young players developed from last year, the talented veterans, the phenomenal pitching staff... but something happened. Yes, we are in first place, but its hard to feel as though this team is anywhere as good as the A's teams in recent years past. We have struggled absurdly at times, and its hard to stay sane when a team underperformes this severely. I know the injury problem has been crippling, but I think people had higher expectations.
I firmly believe this team is still a contender, but I can see why people are so frustrated. With the outlook farm system apparently bleak, it's hard to say "wait till next year." Everybody wants us to win NOW... but I would agree that people are giving up far too easily. There is plenty of games left, and with the trade deadline approaching anything could happen. All we need to do is catch fire at the right time.
by karate explosion on Jul 22, 2006 3:49 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
OMG
You're both annoying. Deal with it. The fact that both sides are right in their opinions of this team should show you something. This is team is good. This team is flawed. Odds are they won't win the World Series, but there's still a chance they might.
I suggest both sides should stop, grow out their hair even though it's summer and be prepare to pull it all out as this team goes to the wire with a big question mark as to how it will likely end, just like the last few seasons.
When it's over and everyone has the fortune of hindsight that can't change from day to day, then we can hash it out and pin point what went wrong/right and what we shouldn't/should have done.
by DMOAS on Jul 22, 2006 3:52 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
OMG!
;)
Today, the A's won, and I'm happy. Yesterday, they lost, and I was bummed. Either way, I'd rather be an A's fan than watch any other team. Can't we all just get along?
by Mike Gallego is my Hero on Jul 22, 2006 4:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Self-edit...
I was wrong. See that, ex-girlfriends across this country? I told you I could admit it!
by Mike Gallego is my Hero on Jul 22, 2006 4:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Tired optimism?
Take a look down the recent diary list and tell me what you see.
- Why did Dan Johnson get sent down? (yet another Oaktoon 'Beane sucks' diary)
- Why didn't we get Shea Hillenbrand?
- A very telling defeat (another Oaktoon Beane pounding)
- Put Chavez on the DL (agreed, but hardly mindless optimism)
- Why can't we hit?
- Zito trade rumors
- More Oaktoon ranting, and more, and more.
Sue me.
by Ozzz on Jul 22, 2006 4:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Are you ever wrong?
Just a few things for you to think about dude or dudette.
by SwisherSweet33 on Jul 22, 2006 6:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If I write a diary...
So in an AN diary-posting sense... yes, I'm always right.
If you're actually referring to my replying to your specific posts with your "do I always have to be right" question - again, yes, when replying to you, I always have to be right.
But only because you're so often wrong. You kind of make it easy, kid.
by Ozzz on Jul 22, 2006 7:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Chief, you're obviously a twenty something
Shit, could you imagine. I think about it therefore I am right. What a world you live in dude.
Cheer's bro. Hope you're having fun at your LAN party or clowning oaktoon.
by SwisherSweet33 on Jul 22, 2006 11:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sorry, what did all that mean?
Except this bit: "I wish I could be right all the time just like you."
I have one word for you, kid: education.
by Ozzz on Jul 23, 2006 12:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
give 'em hell 'oz!!!!!!
by bigelephant on Jul 22, 2006 6:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Wow... completely missed the point...
1 - Oaktoon's near white flag waving is annoying. I say "near" because I don't believe he's waving the flag just yet. He's taken it out of the attic, he's washed it, he's now ironning it out so it looks all pretty (just in case you know, you never know when you'll need it, right?). But that's all he's done so far. And yes, the shtick has gotten old.
2 - You're constant defense being "Hey we're in first place" in response to him, is also, deeply annoying. As if we didn't already know that we're in first place. I bet if you made a poll asking, "Did you know that the A's are in first place?" everyone who answered honestly, would answer "Yes".
3 - I don't know why I bother even posting this, really, my posts to your posts to his posts to your posts, are, for lack of a better word, ANNOYING.
So I give this advice as much as I intend to take it. If you don't like what these diaries are talking about, if you think the content sucks, don't bother reading them, don't bother replying to them. Seriously. If no one recommends them, no one comments on them, then they're going to get bored and stop or go away. Or, you're going to stop or go away. Or, I'm going to stop and go away. Right now, I'm choosing option number 3 for the time being, but that doesn't mean options 1 and 2 aren't possibilities for the rest of you.
Good luck. Enjoy this team, boring or not, we're in first, and I'd like to enjoy that 5% chance they'll win the series. Hey, at least it's 5% and not the big goose egg the royals have. Hell, maybe I'll await the next butt thread, even if that doesn't float my boat, they're at least a whole lot more interesting.
Go A's
by DMOAS on Jul 22, 2006 7:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
And, again, you completely missed mine.
All I'm saying is, when it's all negative, all the time, and we're sitting in first place, that's crap.
We have a team worth cheering right now. We've kicked the tar out of the Red Sox, we're putting it to the best team in the game right now, and we're doing so with injuries up and down.
Does it suck that we have injuries? Hell yes. Would I love it if we were undefeated? Well sure.
But our guys are doing a heck of a lot better than the non-injured Mariners, and staying ahead of the scary Angels. And to me, that deserves better than "Billy Beane sucks and here's why" six times a day.
(shrug)
by Ozzz on Jul 22, 2006 7:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This whole
We're all loyal A's fans. We all want to see them win every game. But some of us have different perceptions about the team in its current state than others, and that's fine. But to cast aside every single critcism and negative comment about the team because "We're in first place" is ludicrous.
The San Diego Padres won the NL West last year, and they were a crappy baseball team. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. They sucked. But hey they made the Playoffs and got embarrassed by the Cardinals. Is that what we want from this year? It's not what i want.
What happens if we lose two games in a row and are now in third place? Because that's all it's gonna take. We may be in first place, but we're the AL's 7th best team, and not that far ahead of numbers 8 and 9.
And don't take that the wrong way, I think the team's playing great right now. I'm delighted to see them take 3 of 4 from Boston, 2 of 3 from Baltimore, and so far play the best team in baseball as evenly as they can be played. I think we have a great shot at winning the division. My issue in this post, at least, isn't with the team, but with the absurdity of the "We're in first place, so shut up" argument.
by walk off bunt on Jul 22, 2006 5:40 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
While I agree with some of what you say
We are in first place despite the fact that we have been rather mediocre this year thus far. Yeah, there is a lot wrong with this team but they are in first. 4 games over .500 is hardly sucking. It is a bit better than average. And honestly, what position would you rather be in? In first place while being a bit mediocre or doing well in an absolute sense but being buried in your division (like the blue jays perhaps)?
The postseason is a crapshoot, really. in 1987 the Twins went 85-77 and won the world series. It can happen. I would rather be in the postseason with an 85 win team than out with a 90 win team.
Ideally, I would rather the A's were tearing up the league but were we sit is not so bad.
by Athletics fan and runner on Jul 22, 2006 6:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm right with you, runner
by walk off bunt on Jul 23, 2006 12:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I hear ya
In part I was just trying to introduce some actual baseball discussion into this diary.
by Athletics fan and runner on Jul 23, 2006 4:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
He's not making that argument
How many times does a guy have to say that it's not the criticism that bothers him; it's the incessant and--in some cases--one-dimensional nature of the criticism that bothers him.
How can you debate his pointing out that if you look at the recent diaries section it's, for the most part, one endless stream of bitching and moaning.
Where do you think the alternate game threads came from?
by RLangford on Jul 22, 2006 6:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
It can be debated--must be debated
Also, the "fair-weather fan" label may not be so off-base ... but if that's in-bounds, than I think the fair retort is to call Oz a homer--as he puts it, always seeing the silver lining. And while he (and you) complains about the incessant negativity, it's legitimate to say that the A's are more-often surrounded by incessant homer-ism, with Ray Fosse at the mike, with Robert Buan hosting Extra Innings, with docile beatwriters who in the team's worst slumps wrote leads like, "the A's lost their fourth in a row in ugly fashion, but they are still in first place."
So a few diary-writers have been negative, one in particular. But for the most part, as far as I'm concerned, a little criticism can be a breath of fresh air, given how much forced optimism this team is surrounded by.
by rubin sierra on Jul 23, 2006 12:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I'm sorry but you might want to not misquote me.
To call me a homer is not only entirely wrong (read my comments from last week, if you need proof of same), but denigrating when I'm clearly in no way suggesting that negative talk should be banned, discouraged, or otherwise not permitted.
All I'm saying is to meter such things a little - get all your negative comments into one diary, or two, instead of 12 in six days.
And, in all honesty, don't you think that's a fair request?
by Ozzz on Jul 23, 2006 3:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You're insulted
Sorry Oz--I get that you don't like being called names any more than the next guy. But like I said, grinch that I am, I am much-more-often annoyed by AN being too full of what I called forced positive vibes. And not just AN but the locals news' game recaps, and the radio and TV commentary are also too positive for my taste. So when I see a diary complaining about too much negativity, I drop in to complain about the opposite.
It sounds like what we are both trying for, rather than all-positive-thoughts or all-negative-thoughts, is to strike a balance. A toast to balance.
by rubin sierra on Jul 24, 2006 1:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
heh
I know from your Vitalstatistix diary from a little while back that you can be counted on to do a little (or a fucking LOT) of research, Rubin, so, go find a, say, diary about steroid usage, and see for yourself why I laughed really hard at your opening sentence. Oz, along with maybe xbx, is probably the most intolerant person here on that topic, so I certainly wouldn't go with the "one-dimensionally positive" description.
by Cutthemullet on Jul 23, 2006 3:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Calm yourself, Langford
by walk off bunt on Jul 23, 2006 12:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
This Diary is 100% criticism
by A s Eh on Jul 23, 2006 1:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
At his best
Enjoy the team however you like.
by Athletics fan and runner on Jul 22, 2006 5:51 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
And thus continues...
by jeepers on Jul 22, 2006 8:53 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
appropriate call on that one
by SwisherSweet33 on Jul 22, 2006 11:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I think oaktoon is oz's...
I remember Oaktoon once made a very insensitive comment about Asians during the WBC and instead of apologizing he says I'm not racist because I'm cool with all these Asians, adopted daughter included. That's not an excuse. I have a bunch of white friends but that won't excuse me if I ever said anything racist about white people.
Same thing with oz. I remember his booing of a Giants fan which included calling Barry Bonds a gorilla. His excuse was gorilla had nothing to do with racial imagery but his steroid influenced bulk.
Gimme a break. Saying sorry every once in awhile never hurt and faking contrition is easy to do on the internet.
by secret ASian man on Jul 22, 2006 11:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Oh great.
You're a disgrace, sir.
by Ozzz on Jul 23, 2006 12:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Yes, I am a disgrace
You are correct that I am a disgrace because I spent seven years in college and didn't have a masters to show for it. My parents had implied that was turning into a disgrace until the day I walked the stage with a cap and gown. And the fact that it took me seven years to get a degree from Cal State Hayward seems to hang like an albatross around my neck at family gatherings.
And no, I didn't say or imply that you or oaktoon are racists. I didn't write "so and so hates < insert ethnic group here>", I just stated times when people posted some really boneheaded thoughts and didn't feel the need to say sorry when they realized the feelings could have been hurt. So what if I mentioned racial incidents, I remember those easier. Why? I don't know?
So there you have it. If you disagree with me, you're probably a racist. Because oz says so.
by secret ASian man on Jul 23, 2006 12:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
The shoe fits.
"I remember his booing of a Giants fan which included calling Barry Bonds a gorilla. His excuse was gorilla had nothing to do with racial imagery but his steroid influenced bulk. Gimme a break."
No, you're not calling anyone a racist. Don't know how I could have got that idea. You were clearly stating that I'm a person of high moral virtue.
by Ozzz on Jul 23, 2006 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
don't go changing the facts
I maintained then and i maintain now it was not racist, even though you and others felt so. And in the process of defending myself I mentioned a pretty deep connection to Vietnam (since an adopted child is about as deep a connection as one can get).
So no I didn't apologize because there was no reason. SO please do not ascribe your motivations or reactions to a hypothetical to me based on a totally inaccurate representation of what happened.
by oaktoon on Jul 23, 2006 12:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You made your opinion in a very boneheaded way
Remember the "blez sold out troll?" That guy kept on saying he couldn't be a troll because he was a season ticket holder. Well he got banned for being a troll, that season ticket didn't give him a free pass.
OK, perhaps I was in the wrong and was caught in a fit of righteous indignation at the time. But then and again, i've been seeing a lot of righteous indignation in this site lately.
by secret ASian man on Jul 23, 2006 12:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
If you're going to overreact to someone...
I might not agree with Oaktoon's methods, or many of his opinions, but he sure as heck doesn't need to be tagged as something as vile as a bigot just because you're a little 'over-sensitive' - anymore than I do.
by Ozzz on Jul 23, 2006 3:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nuance again
I have been on the receiving end and I have been on the giving end of this. I know, I've told some racial jokes to friends and it probably crossed a line because a certain friend would say, "Dude, that's fucked up." After that, I offer an apology (probably something along the lines of "Dude, I'm sorry") and the party continues.
Does that make me a racist? No, because I don't treat anybody any different on basis of the color of their skin or where their ancestors come from.
You did pretty much the same thing with the Barry Bonds comment, people called you out on it. Instead of apologizing, you insisted that you have committed no faux pas because you did not know cultural norms in America.
Does that make you a racist? No, but it does say something about your character. Not that you're a bad person but it shows that you are inflexible and unwilling to make or accept a compromise. In that instance you could have made an apology and explainted your ignorance of how race is dealt with in America. An apology can go far, just look at Jason Giambi. Yankee fans love him again, despite his admission to steroid use.
Perhaps I am a little sensitive to racial issues, but that's because I am aware of where I'm from. I know of the trials and tribulation my forebears had gone through and how they persevered to make this country their home. Through their hard work today I am a normal middle class American, that is something even people in father's generation didn't have when they were my age; several uncles had horror stories of racist professors in college or grad school and this was in the 60's and 70's. I don't take my status as an American, especially as a non-white American, lightly.
by secret ASian man on Jul 23, 2006 10:25 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Just because you wear your race on your sleeve..
I never said I was unaware of America's cultural norms. I'm absolutely aware.
But I'm also aware that it is 100% common place to call a hulking musclehead a gorilla, as are you.
If I'd called Bonds a bear, would you have claimed it was homophobic? If I'd called him a goon, would you have said I should be more sensitive to Italians?
The problem wasn't me referring to him as a "musclebound gorilla", it was in the people like yourself who look for a way to make that a racist statement. YOU tagged the racism to it, not me.
That's why I didn't apologize, because the racial insensitivity wasn't coming from me, but rather, from those who hear the word "gorilla" and instantly think "black".
FYI, you don't have ownership on the topic of having to deal with racism. Call me up some time when, after a terrorist attack, someone asks to switch seats on a plane so they don't have to sit next to "that dark-skinned fellow", and we can compare notes on who has more right to wallow in the perceived downside of their heritage.
by Ozzz on Jul 24, 2006 12:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
To me
I tend to think like you do. This team has flaws, no doubt, but I also think that given all the unexpected things that have gone wrong it's amazing to this it's still in first place. I also think that so many of the diaries that have taken shots at the A's front office of late have also ignored the great things that it has done. This team has won quite a few games because of the bullpen, which I think it quickly becoming one of the best in baseball. No one brings that up. I just think that with a payroll the A's have, this team is going to always have warts. It's just a fact and those who concentrate on the warts constantly are going to always be a pretty dissatisfied group. If they like being that way, that's their choice and they're free to be unhappy. You'll just enjoy being an A's fan more than those folks.
by Tyler Bleszinski on Jul 22, 2006 11:49 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Blez...
First place is simply a product of the divisional groupings-- we are the 7th, 8th or 9th best team in the league.
As to the bullpen, I give Beane and Co. credit for all those pieces. And I of course have never ignored all the good decisions that they have made in prior years-- I often refer to them.
I just wished you had pressed harder on Loaiza, Kendall, Kotsay and Chavez-- and how all these big money decisions have-- in one way or another- begun to blow up in the A's face.
Accepting "warts" because we're low payroll is one step on the road to Kansas City or Pittsburgh-- I ain't gonna do it.
by oaktoon on Jul 23, 2006 12:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Nuance can be your friend.
To take a handful of 'not yet played out' trades and suggest he's lost it is, in my mind, a dishonest argument. The benefit of hindsight is not something Beane has to work with on a daily basis, and each one of the trades you mentioned above, is a trade that received substantial support from Oakland fans and the press, and could well turn out to be a great one.
Case in point: the Milton Bradley trade, which you were pounding in a few days ago as being a loss for Oakland, but which, in the days since, looks like a hell of a deal for us.
by Ozzz on Jul 23, 2006 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I don't think the problem is "warts"
We all know that the A's had one of the strongest teams on paper this preseason and if it weren't for injuries, the team would be very close to that team on paper. It's like the Millenium Falcon's troubles in the Empire Strikes Back. We all know the Falcon is an awesome ship, we saw that in Star Wars, but some mechanical mishaps always happens at a critical time. Despite that, they manage to be one step ahead of the Empire.
Like the Falcon in Empire I think the A's have managed to stay one step ahead of our AL West rivals, but I have a nervous fear that unless the team starts firing on all cylinders, our luck will run out.
That's why the A's sitting atop the division standing isn't saccarine sweet to me.
by secret ASian man on Jul 23, 2006 1:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Not meant to be negative
by walk off bunt on Jul 23, 2006 3:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I have to disagree
People who are really high on Crosby are really basing their expectations on 2 months (June of 2004 and June of 2005) in his short career. The rest of the time he has been average to below average. He only won ROY because that was a horrible year for rookies.
Ellis made a huge leap in production last year from 2004. There was not enough of a track record to know which is the real Mark Ellis, the 2004 version or the 2005 version.
Perez, Blanton, and DJ similarly do not have long enough track records for anyone to feel reasonably comfortable that they can reproduce their 2005 numbers.
Kotsay I agree has underperformed expectations based on his career numbers.
Loaiza also has underperformed his very average career numbers.
by oakfan2000 on Jul 23, 2006 2:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Great point.
It really comes down to whether you feel Crosby is an all-star in a slump, or an average infielder who had a career season last time around.
by Ozzz on Jul 23, 2006 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
please compare
by oaktoon on Jul 23, 2006 7:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Please consider the injury crisis and standings
by Ozzz on Jul 24, 2006 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
I posted
Go A's, 2006.
by OaktownIn06 on Jul 23, 2006 1:02 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Huzzah we're in first!!
There are always going to be fans with varying opinions expressing themselves on this site. OH YEAH: THAT'S WHY IT'S HERE! Believe me, I've gotten tired of Eeyore's flipflopping, emotional rollercoasting, but I've also gotten a kick out of it on many occasions.
Bottom line, AN is a family, and we all love the A's. IMO the site wouldn't be the same without oaktoon's participation (hey, I really miss foolsh- just not all the arguments). The personalities and opinions shared here are all legit (even those expressed by ANers who are not tall). Oz, I recommend you pay no attention to the man behind the curtain: he's obviously got his own demons to deal with, and remember, he's not heavy, he's your brother.
by Brian in 317 on Jul 23, 2006 8:48 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Nice post, Bri.
I guess what's disappointing to me about Oaktoon is that he's a smart guy who has some great insight, but very often, when he has nothing new to report, he'll reach at whatever he can find that's in the extreme.
Case in point: DJ shouldn't have been sent down, Swisher should have been benched.
See, to me that's just silly, and to make such an argument following half a dozen other diaries in a few days that are similarly second-guessing of the A's, really indicates to me a desperation to say something - anything - that can fill a diary and get a reaction.
There's plenty of stuff we can bitch about as to how this team sits right now, all of it justified, so all I'm saying is we shouldn't have to make up more to have an interesting discussion.
It's a shame that so many choose to disregard the obvious intent of my posts and harp on the whole "quit telling X what he can say", but hey, nuance isn't something that thrives these days.
by Ozzz on Jul 23, 2006 3:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
We need another Fair Weather Fan Award...
And put a monkey attacking the face instead of the hotdog.
by gdub171 on Jul 23, 2006 9:57 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs
Im so sick of the Gung Ho's here
Allow me to demonstrate.
"Youre an idiot because you think we should trade this person"
-"oh yeah well you dont know what I know about this team so youre more of an idiot!"
"Nah ah! look I know stats! did you know what Giambi's ERA was at the height of his A's career? didnt think so...traitor!"
Its getting old, and Im getting tired of it, and Im sure there are others that are getting tired of it, that miss talking about their favorite team without fear of being ridiculed by some pompous P&%$cks for not think everything is green and gold in the A's camp. Thats what I have to say...go ahead and crucify me now.
by Amnesiac727 on Jul 23, 2006 4:42 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
No crucifixion necessary.
It'll save you writing multiple paragraphs based on false assumptions.
by Ozzz on Jul 23, 2006 4:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Hi, my name is
Oz, are you going to post a proclamation when we are in third place on August 1st and tell us everything is peachy?
by SwisherSweet33 on Jul 23, 2006 5:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
You finally wrote something corrent. Props!
There's a lot of season left on August 1.
Question for you: Are you going to admit that picking up Milton Bradley was a good move when Ethier slumps and Bradley continues to pound the living tar out of the ball?
by Ozzz on Jul 24, 2006 12:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs
Have you seen this???
Beane stinks!!! :)
by saint on Jul 23, 2006 9:12 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs
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