(should) CHAVEZ to the DL NOW?

by SwisherSweet33 on Jun 28, 2006 9:14 AM PDT Comment 36 comments

I know the BlogFather Blez mentioned this in his article of the day and someone else posted a pll but I don't think this subject is getting the attention it deserves. Chavez is clearly hurting, and it brings up the question as to what the A's are waiting for. If Chavez is adament about playing do the A's have the determination to tell him to shut it down? Are his injuries overstated? The list of questions goes on. Here is my take on the Chavez to the DL 'issue.'

The statistics do not lie. Chavez got off to a blazing start and now with the accumulation of his injuries - forearm tendanitis, hamstrings, and back - he is not only hitting poorly but his defensive range is suffering as well. I think it would heed the A's to place him on the DL and stop the more recent trend of giving him a day off here and there. A few days off here and there is not sufficient time to let Chavez recover from the type of injuries it is reported that he has. It is clear that he has been playing poorly and his numbers just keep getting worse. The season is not quite half way over and it isn't worth it/possible to ride him all the way until September and expect him to get fully healthy and play at the level we all expect our corner stone player to play at.

That being said, I know 15 games now are just as important as 15 games in September, but if we keep riding an injured Chavez his productivity will be nill by the time August/September come around.
Maybe the A's are waiting for Big Hurt's Return so we don't have to go completely without a big bopper in the line up?

In light of this, I'd like to give a tip of the cap to Chavez for showing us his heart and playing through all of these injuries. I don't think it's possible for ANYONE to question his heart anymore.

I'd like to hear where all of you chime in on this issue and whether you think:
1) that it is a good idea to put him on the DL and 2)if you do, what would be the proper timing
a) when the wheels fall completely off
b) when the Big Hurt and Bradley come
back
c) some other time

Go A's Go Bears (#6 preseason ranking somehow in Street and Smith's)

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It depends ...

I'm not a doctor and I don't even play one on TV, so I don't know.

If 15 days off is likely to get him back to being as healthy as he was in April, then, absolutely, give him the time off. Perhaps this weekend, when Frank Thomas returns would be a good time.

If it'll take 30 days or 60 days of rest or surgery, then it becomes a much tougher call ...

Another project of Devo's

by devo on Jun 28, 2006 9:24 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

agree

If it's going to take all offseason, let him play. If it can be fixed in two weeks, bench him and wait two weeks.

"I've heard the hangovers are worse." -Zito on high altitude

by Squeaky on Jun 28, 2006 9:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

But did you stay at a Holiday Inn Express?

Putting the "fun" in "perfunctory"

by Poppy on Jun 28, 2006 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

A link from this weekend:

The injury is expected to bother the A's third baseman all year, because it cannot heal while he plays with it, and it would take at least six weeks (probably more) on the disabled list to get him anywhere near back to normal. With all the team's injury problems this year, and with Chavez's importance to the club, they can't afford to have him out that long. So he will keep playing at much less than 100 percent.

by Jennifer on Jun 28, 2006 9:41 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Thanks...

For that huge piece of information. Knowing that, I still believe they need to put him on the DL. With Frank and Milton about to return they will pick up the slack for Chavez' absence. I mean, think about the team and how we are still in first with all these players on the DL. Chavez really isnt the one responsible for picking up ALL OF THAT missed offense. What the A's need is a big bat (or at least big bat threat) in the middle of the order. With Frank in the lineup, Chavez should go to the DL.

by SwisherSweet33 on Jun 28, 2006 9:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

But what about the 17 other injuries?

Another project of Devo's

by devo on Jun 28, 2006 9:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

17 other injuries over the course of the year....

... not all at one time. My point is, if we can do without the Hurt, Bradley, Harden, Ellis, Duke, Kennedy then we can definately do without Chavez when some of those guys come back.

by SwisherSweet33 on Jun 28, 2006 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

That's not what I meant ...

Chavvy has something wrong with just about every part of his body there is.

While his legs wouldn't benefit much from two week's rest, would his forearms or his back? If so, it might still be worth it, even if his legs remain in pain.

Another project of Devo's

by devo on Jun 28, 2006 3:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Legs and Back I don't know about..

.. but tendanitis is something that only goes away with rest.

by SwisherSweet33 on Jun 28, 2006 6:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

...and death.

Tendonitis goes away with death. too.

Tutti Frutti

by Ice Cream on Jun 28, 2006 7:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

How much rest?

Another project of Devo's

by devo on Jun 28, 2006 8:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

The answers simple, really.

Chavez is hitting 188/345/290 for the month of June. If he doesn't turn it around soon he needs to go on the DL and the A's need to shop for a temporary replacement.

Why yes. I am a ray of warm and fuzzy sunshine.

by grover on Jun 28, 2006 10:28 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Perhaps this is where a Huff trade

makes (some) sense. He can play 3rd when Chavez is out, and move around the OF and Dh when he gets back.

Then again, his .247/.324/.376 line would be the part of the trade that makes less sense. Perhaps it would buying low, though.

"We've come a long way, and I'm not talking about Virginia Slims, either." - Art Howe

by EastCoastA on Jun 28, 2006 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

on the contrary

Despite how bad Huff's numbers look now, they have been a lot worse this season, so in fact we would be buying high in a way.

Compare to his numbers on June 9th:
.178/.272/.264
Yikes...you know things are bad when your slugging percentage is lower than your OBP

Green eyes come from yellow flecks of fatty pigment on a dark background. Some men think a green-eyed woman is exotic. The truth is she's got fat eyes.

by Furious George on Jun 28, 2006 11:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

IRregardless of Chavy's health

We need a bat for the stretch run. It has been stated several times that DL'ing him will not help with the healing process. His defense is very important to the team and I would doubt that Antonio Perez would be a better replacement even if he hit .290. Short of using the MLB's version of the IR (120 DL?) we are all going to have to live with Chavy's performance because we would lose too much on defense with Perez.

--ON A SIDE NOTE-- San Diego's announcers are twice as bad as Ken "Hawk" Harrelson and it's hard to believe that an organization would allow them to continue. "Painful" is the best word to describe listening to them.

"If you're surprised by getting the job done, that means you didn't expect it out of yourself." -Huston Street

by ohtobe21likehuston on Jun 28, 2006 11:09 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Have you seen him play ....

defense lately. He isn't playing well at all. Limited range etc. Just wait until other teams start dropping down bunts against us.

Go A's Go Bears

by SwisherSweet33 on Jun 28, 2006 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Average Chavy = Beyond Perez's best effort

I understand that he's not himself and I wouldn't be against DL'ing him if I thought it would help the team. What if he wasn't any better in August because it's still an "if" on whether his health would drastically improve by then?

Clarification- I was talking about needing a bat as a separate issue entirely and that would help alleviate some of our offensive problems... such as being SHUT OUT three times in a week!

"If you're surprised by getting the job done, that means you didn't expect it out of yourself." -Huston Street

by ohtobe21likehuston on Jun 28, 2006 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I hate to even bring this up But,

Would this then be a good time to say bring back Ginter for another shot? Put Chavy on the DL to heal/rest up, whatever so he could be ready for the stretch run, and we could move Scutaro to play 3B and Gint could play 2B? I hate to see a $1.2m player wittle away in AAA.

A good Keith Ginter = a starting Adam Melhuse...

by sf drift king on Jun 28, 2006 12:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

DL time-frame?

I think we are all under the illusion that Chavy will get better if he goes on the DL when that may not be the case. What time frame are you thinking for the DL- 15, 30, 60? I'm not against Ginter or Perez playing 3rd but the real question is whether the team/fans are willing to 60 day DL Chavy and then hope that he's 100% for the stretch run. IF there is even a stretch run left for the A's to consider when Chavy is replaced.

"If you're surprised by getting the job done, that means you didn't expect it out of yourself." -Huston Street

by ohtobe21likehuston on Jun 28, 2006 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well,

I think if he not producing at the plate and struggling on the field, then the coaching staff has to consider it. His performance has been in steady decline since his hot start. Can he play through it and be effective? It's looking like he can't right now.

If there is no DL in his immed future, then at least give the guy some rest and Perez more AB's..

by sf drift king on Jun 28, 2006 1:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I agree and disagree

You're right. I am not against benching him because of his performance or DL'ing him for 60 days.

His injury will not improve with rest according to our training staff. Therefore, I don't see rest as being an option and I'm questioning why everyone keeps bringing up something that is not an option. EXTENDED rest... 60 day DL... yes. 15 day DL... no.

"If you're surprised by getting the job done, that means you didn't expect it out of yourself." -Huston Street

by ohtobe21likehuston on Jun 28, 2006 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Normal

Didn't it say that he would not be back to normal with just a 15 day break. That is different from saying that a half month off won't help him.

by Larry E on Jun 28, 2006 2:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

For his hammy

A 15 day vacation won't heal his hamstring but it could, and likely would do some good for his aching back and forearms.

Green eyes come from yellow flecks of fatty pigment on a dark background. Some men think a green-eyed woman is exotic. The truth is she's got fat eyes.

by Furious George on Jun 28, 2006 11:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

AS break

Ellis should be back Friday along with the Big Hurt. So I don't see Ginter back in the picture just yet.

If the A's were to go the 15 day DL route with Chavvy I would expect it to happen right at the all-star break. In that scenario he wouldn't miss the 4 game series with the Angels and would only miss 11 games in total (vs Bos, Det, and Bal). One would think that Bradley would be playing by that time as well.

by Larry E on Jun 28, 2006 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

That may be an accurate assertion, but

I would contend that Chavez' defense is well below average at this point in time. His range is in the ballpark of Troy Glaus although his glove and arm remain better.

by SwisherSweet33 on Jun 29, 2006 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

After 15 days

they can reevaluate him and leave him on the DL another 15, can't they? Maybe 30 or 45 days would do it. Does the all-star break (and other off days) count as DL days, or just game days?

"The worst day on a ball field is better than the best day in any office." - David Wright

by kkdaz on Jun 28, 2006 2:10 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

15 days -- not 15 games ...

and, yes, you can leave a player on the dl for as long as he needs to be there.

Another project of Devo's

by devo on Jun 28, 2006 2:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

What about the playoffs?

If we can get some of our run producers (i.e. Thomas, Bradley) off of the DL and back into the lineup, I think it'd be a good idea to give Chavez some extended time off. Sure, maybe he doesn't get back to 100% - but it sure seems like he's in the 50-60% range now, and if the rest lets him get back to 80-85% and ready to go for the playoffs, I think he's more valuable to us then. We've managed to stay ahead of the division dispite all of the injuries (and poor performance by an injured-chavez), and I think that's key. If we can get to the playoffs, or be in the playoff-hunt, with a healthy Chavez, we could make a run for it.

by spiffyjwc on Jun 28, 2006 4:05 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Put it this way--

he's not doing us any good right now in the lineup anyway, so it wont make a difference if he's not in there. The only difference may be some lost defense but during the telecast yesterday Fosse was talking about how Ron Washington told Macha that he won't need to worry about Perez's defense any more, Wash says that his defense is much much much better now. I say DL Chavvy as soon as possible so we can get him back sooner. The training staff says that rest wont help him, but I have a hard time believing that not stressing the problem areas on a daily basis for however long it takes wont help him. It's common sense. He may get back to 100% but I'd take an 80-90% Chavvy over this current version right now.

"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin, Seattle Mariners

by Helloooo 1st on Jun 28, 2006 4:30 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

"for however long it takes"

is the key.

Another project of Devo's

by devo on Jun 28, 2006 4:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

agreed

There's also the issue of whether, by playing Chavvy relentlessly with all of these injuries, the A's may be putting him at serious risk for any number of compensatory cascade injuries.

Don't make me bring the Scrabble board to the locker room. I will bring it. -- Jonathan Papelbon @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jun 28, 2006 4:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Probably already have

I wouldn't be surprised if the injuries he has right now are related. Maybe the forearm tendonitis is a result of him changing the way he throws to compensate for his bad shoulder. Maybe the bad back is a result of his aching hamstring.

Green eyes come from yellow flecks of fatty pigment on a dark background. Some men think a green-eyed woman is exotic. The truth is she's got fat eyes.

by Furious George on Jun 28, 2006 11:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

And all that

And all those injuries are resulting in a major headache for A's fans everywhere.

Green eyes come from yellow flecks of fatty pigment on a dark background. Some men think a green-eyed woman is exotic. The truth is she's got fat eyes.

by Furious George on Jun 28, 2006 11:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I GUARANTEE YOU...

That his injuries are related. When one part of your body is hurt, you compensate by using other parts of your body disproportionately and cause injuries elsewhere. Hamstrings relate to back which relates to forearms when you are swinging because you are using all arms and no legs.

GO A's

by SwisherSweet33 on Jun 29, 2006 10:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

good point

The tendinitis may also be from a cascade in his swing, to compensate for his inability to push off with his legs or torque with his back.

Don't make me bring the Scrabble board to the locker room. I will bring it. -- Jonathan Papelbon @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jun 29, 2006 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Glad to see this getting more run

As I was thinking about this a LOT on my bike ride this morning. Chavez hurting bad, everyone knows it; he's compensating and therefore compounding (pardon my parroting) and with Big Hurt, Ellis and Thomas on the way back, there should be a big infusion of juice to the offense.

Regardless, keeping him out there is just asking for longterm troubles. He's a gamer and he's going to gut it until he's told otherwise.

Last game tonight, then back to AL time for the boys and DL time for Chavvy to make the best of what he's got.

by princemilo on Jun 29, 2006 11:44 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs