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What IS The Big Pull?

Eric Chavez, Bobby Crosby, Dan Johnson, and the list goes on and on--with the A's hitters, and with hitters on teams all around the major leagues. It goes something like this: Hitter tries to pull everything, hitter makes lots of outs, coaches try to get hitter to "go the other way more," hitter doesn't, hitter makes lots of outs, hitter suddenly decides to go the other way more, hitter starts hitting better. Hitter tries to pull everything again...

Why exactly do hitters want to pull the ball so much? Even when he was hitting some HRs to left field, Chavez spent ginormous portions of each of his first 5 seasons rolling over on outside pitches and grounding to second. Even when there are three infielders blocking the right side, and pasture-like regions open on the left side, Johnson pulls into the shift--even when he's batting -.012 and you would think that a dinky single would feel just fine right about now. Every time Crosby starts hitting as much to right and right-center as to left and left-center, he suddenly has a stretch of batting around .400 instead of around .200.

It's not exactly surprising. After all, there are plenty of specific reasons to expect more success if you look to hit to the off-field and much as you look to pull the ball:

  • You can see the ball longer, which is the same, in effect, as slowing the pitches down.
  • You force the defense to spread out more, meaning more balls will get through, or drop in, for hits.
  • Most pitchers are more comfortable pitching more to the outside corner than to the inside corner.
  • If a pitch is tailing away--as many pitches will in a given sequence--you can hit the ball more squarely by going with the movement than by going against it.
Yet after tasting failure, and then success, what do these--and so many other hitters around the league--do? They go back to pulling everything again and having less success again. Aaaahhh!!! <pulls hair out, realizes it's not my hair, runs like crazy away from the person whose hair I just pulled>

I don't get this obsession with wanting to pull the ball. As electroshock therapy has proven (and not just with my 6th graders), most human beings gravitate towards behaviors that are routinely rewarded and away from behaviors that are routinely met with failure (or immense pain, but let's not get bogged down in discussing my 6th grade right now).

Yet athletes keep going back for the shocks. Why? I'm fascinated, in that "I'm not so much fascinated as I am incredibly mind-boggled, perturbed, and ready to check myself into an institution" way. Why are these people so slow to embrace the habits which tangibly, and immediately, breed success, and so slow to discard habits that breed failure? Heck, take it a step further: Why aren't hitters so obsessed with going the other way that coaches have to urge them to pull the ball more?

Hmm?

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You want both
There's nothing wrong with pulling an inside pitch.  It's the off speed stuff on the ouside part of the plate that tends to mess up pull hitters.  I think the key is pitch recognitoin.  

by McBain on Jun 2, 2006 8:25 AM PDT   0 recs

It Takes More Patience
Some hitters just don't have the patience either. They want to hit the ball hard and trying to pull a pitch is easier. I also agree with McBain in that pitch recognition is another important ability to have.

by RudiFan on Jun 2, 2006 8:36 AM PDT   0 recs

The article by Michael Lewis about Mark Teahen...
& Steve Stanley does talk about how the coaches tried to convince Teahen to pull the ball more instead of going oppo field. It probably has more to do with generating better power & numbers.

Chicks dig the oppo field single. NOT.

"DeJesus walks among us now...What's next...an Esteban Deutschland three homerun game?" - franks a lot

by McFood on Jun 2, 2006 8:38 AM PDT   0 recs

You left out part of the progression, Nico...
It should read:  Hitter tries to pull everything, hitter makes lots of outs, coaches try to get hitter to "go the other way more," hitter doesn't, hitter makes lots of outs, manager offers hitter $200 for opposite field hits, hitter suddenly decides to go the other way more, hitter starts hitting better...
Putting the "fun" in "perfunctory"

by Poppy on Jun 2, 2006 8:46 AM PDT   0 recs

hahaha
And you know what sucks for Zito? Whos gonna bet him he wont throw a shut out for $200. He does his job and nobody gives him extra cash! Poor Zitohead. Although if you did start betting him you would probably go broke. ps. Zito now has the 3rd best ERA in the AL! GO ZITO!

by asfan777 on Jun 2, 2006 10:13 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I think Zito is well aware of the pot of gold...
...waiting for him at the end of the season.

Much better than $200 for being particularly FitZ on one or two particular batters.

T.S. Eliot got it wrong: May is the cruelest month.

by GreenNGoldSooner on Jun 2, 2006 5:32 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

it's part of learning to be a good hitter
it's advantageous to work with the ball's movement and velocity coming from the pitcher, rather than working against it.

Another part of learning to be a good hitter is being able to send the ball in a direction that helps the particular situation, such as getting the ball on the ground towards the right when you want to advance a baserunner from second to third.

by OaklandSi on Jun 2, 2006 8:57 AM PDT   0 recs

You can hit the ball farther when you pull it
I think that's the main reason.  Chicks dig the long ball.  Just ask Jason Kendall.  HE HIT A FREAKING HOME RUN!
"The first night, we were right there," Bradley said. "All we needed was a couple of touchdowns, and we would have had them."

by jeepers on Jun 2, 2006 8:57 AM PDT   0 recs

{swoons}
{falls at Jason's feet}
Putting the "fun" in "perfunctory"

by Poppy on Jun 2, 2006 9:03 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Did you even read my post above?
Honestly, I don't know why I even bother showing up here sometimes.

Oh yeah, it beats working!

Carry on.

"DeJesus walks among us now...What's next...an Esteban Deutschland three homerun game?" - franks a lot

by McFood on Jun 2, 2006 9:21 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Whoops!
Missed that <takes McFood's sandwich>
"The first night, we were right there," Bradley said. "All we needed was a couple of touchdowns, and we would have had them."

by jeepers on Jun 2, 2006 10:35 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

this ones easy
for anyone who has ever played ball it is easy to understand why so many try to pull the ball.  IT JUST FEELS SO GOOD.  turning on an iside pitch and getting all of it is just one of those things, if you've never done it you just wouldn't understand.

by grapefruitsandbeebies on Jun 2, 2006 9:18 AM PDT   0 recs

You're right.
I can only get the ball out of the infield when I pull it.  It has to do with your bat speed, I believe.  Your bat is traveling with the most velocity as it passes through the "pull zone."

For those of you wondering, the reason why hitting the ball on the "sweet spot" of the bat feels so good is that the ball is contacting at the bat at a vibrational node.

Can intangibles exist? Only the ones you can touch.

by salb918 on Jun 2, 2006 9:20 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

OOOOOOOO....
Vibrational Node!!!! I love it when my I enter the vibrational node!!!
While taint is everywhere and baseball is certainly no different, it's important that it be treated with open attention-Devo

by saint on Jun 2, 2006 9:22 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

lmao
Putting the "fun" in "perfunctory"

by Poppy on Jun 2, 2006 9:24 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I don't get it.
Can intangibles exist? Only the ones you can touch.

by salb918 on Jun 2, 2006 9:24 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Is it akin to a Golgi Aparatus???
While taint is everywhere and baseball is certainly no different, it's important that it be treated with open attention-Devo

by saint on Jun 2, 2006 9:35 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

oh boy...
I don't think Brad's going to be able to sex the Ranger's lineup to death. -- Jennifer

by Sharon on Jun 2, 2006 9:23 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

he meant "neuralizer"
Putting the "fun" in "perfunctory"

by Poppy on Jun 2, 2006 9:24 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Jennifer should post that picture again.
I don't think Brad's going to be able to sex the Ranger's lineup to death. -- Jennifer

by Sharon on Jun 2, 2006 9:25 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

If Sal is so angry,
he cold use the neuralizer to makes us all forget.
I don't think Brad's going to be able to sex the Ranger's lineup to death. -- Jennifer

by Sharon on Jun 2, 2006 9:36 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

<censored> you.
<donates to cuss jar>
Can intangibles exist? Only the ones you can touch.

by salb918 on Jun 2, 2006 9:39 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

bwahahaha!!!
Putting the "fun" in "perfunctory"

by Poppy on Jun 2, 2006 9:48 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

What?
What's so <censored> funny?
Can intangibles exist? Only the ones you can touch.

by salb918 on Jun 2, 2006 9:24 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

On the extreme off-chance that you ever manage
to bag a babe, don't try using that "sweet spot-vibrational node" line on her, ok?

Btw, thanks for the new sig line.

"DeJesus walks among us now...What's next...an Esteban Deutschland three homerun game?" - franks a lot

by McFood on Jun 2, 2006 9:25 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

That's it.
You people don't <censored> appreciate good <censored> science.  <censored>, you McFood.  <censored> all y'all.
Can intangibles exist? Only the ones you can touch.

by salb918 on Jun 2, 2006 9:27 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

{points & laughs at sal's vibrational node}
Putting the "fun" in "perfunctory"

by Poppy on Jun 2, 2006 9:34 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Harsh.
lol
I don't think Brad's going to be able to sex the Ranger's lineup to death. -- Jennifer

by Sharon on Jun 2, 2006 9:34 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

LOL!
Just spit donut, but it was so worth it.
A's 2006 record when I attend: 4-5

by peanut gallery on Jun 2, 2006 9:58 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

By the way,
you're to blame for ruining this thread.
I don't think Brad's going to be able to sex the Ranger's lineup to death. -- Jennifer

by Sharon on Jun 2, 2006 9:38 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Two in the last two days.
Only one intentionally, though.
Can intangibles exist? Only the ones you can touch.

by salb918 on Jun 2, 2006 9:39 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Free porn!
Wow, sal. I usually have to dial a 900# for talk like that. Thanks for the freebie!
A's 2006 record when I attend: 4-5

by peanut gallery on Jun 2, 2006 9:59 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

of course it feels good
but I bet it feels even better to get more hits and help your team win more games.

by OaklandSi on Jun 2, 2006 9:36 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

It all starts with approach:
If the hitter approach is to spray the ball, he will stay inside of the pitch and go with it, ala Kendall.

If he is, or thinks he is, a power hitter he will open up more and try and pull the ball.

Most of what a hitter is going to do is decided before the ball leaves the pitchers hand. Then he/she has a blink of an eye to react.

While taint is everywhere and baseball is certainly no different, it's important that it be treated with open attention-Devo

by saint on Jun 2, 2006 9:21 AM PDT   0 recs

Two structural issues
  1. Power hitters are accustomed to being rewarded for the results of pulling the ball throughout their minor-league careers, facing pitchers against whom one can even pull middle-away pitches. When they make the jump to the majors, where pitchers are both throwing harder and shifting the hitter's line of sight with pitches more effectively, it becomes a lot harder to make decent contact pulling the ball -- but there's a perception and performance lag from the years of established behavior by the hitters.
  2. The A's organization, in particular, emphasizes waiting for a pitch the batter can drive -- and this usually means in practice only ever swinging when the batter thinks he can pull the ball.
Do you want to taste the rainbow? @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jun 2, 2006 9:55 AM PDT   0 recs

Nice comments...
I would say its a combination of alot of whats being said. The "problem" is 2 sided as far a im concerned. You have batters going through a cycle (Ill make it as brief as possible) from pitchers giving them indside pitches to not. If you can hit oppo. than pitchers will give you inside as well. As soon as you turn on some pitches you wait on inside pitches till they pich you only outside and you look for that again. Good batters make the adjustment quick (ie. Big Poppi).
But also you have an organization that puts alot of emphasis into "wait for your pitch to drive" what we call playing Big Ball. Theory goes you get better pitches deep in the count and the pitchers pitch count goes up. So if the pitch you drive is inside (which all batters do) you are encouraged to do that. So you can see the two sides. A's play big ball, so without great hitters this is a big problem. We had big success with this a few years ago with our big hitters. We just need to turn the volume up on our bats. Now go get some espresso and back to work!

by asfan777 on Jun 2, 2006 10:06 AM PDT   0 recs

to pull the ball
you have to attack the ball out in front of the plate.  this means your bat will be in motion longer before you hit the ball, which means you can get it going faster.  a faster bat means more energy is transfered to the baseball.  which means the ball will travel faster and go farther (depending of course on the launch angle and trajectory).

as a hitter, i am happy hitting anything where i can get full extension, whether it be to right, center or left (i'm right handed) - but, for some reason, nothing feels as good as getting your hips open, turning through the ball and really stinging one to left (although a frozen rope to oppo gap is pretty close)

for more than you ever wanted to know about bat ball collisions, vibrational nodes etc, check out this website.

http://www.kettering.edu/~drussell/bats.html

by Backspin on Jun 2, 2006 10:19 AM PDT   0 recs

See!
Vibrational nodes rule!
Can intangibles exist? Only the ones you can touch.

by salb918 on Jun 2, 2006 10:22 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I thought technocratic oligarchies ruled
Do you want to taste the rainbow? @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jun 2, 2006 10:23 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Technocratic oligarchies are so 1987.
Everything's theocratic nowadays. It's the new black.
"I smell like a meadow." - Yuniesky Betancourt

by Ozzz on Jun 2, 2006 10:29 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

well...
...since I'm not as comfortable teasing letsgooakland as I am with teasing you, I'm going to just let that whole post go...  but wow... lotsa material there...  ;)

(And yes, also quite genuinely informative for those of us who have never played baseball.)

Putting the "fun" in "perfunctory"

by Poppy on Jun 2, 2006 10:32 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

tease away
i may be pretty new, but i can take.  and yes, i am somewhat of a physics geek, and take analysis of my swing way too far.  

by Backspin on Jun 2, 2006 11:22 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

a word to the wise...
You probably shouldn't encourage me...
Putting the "fun" in "perfunctory"

by Poppy on Jun 2, 2006 11:34 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

advise
taken.  :)

by Backspin on Jun 2, 2006 11:57 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Whoo! Science!
(Aside to Apricot: Wear it, Mathboy)
Can intangibles exist? Only the ones you can touch.

by salb918 on Jun 2, 2006 11:38 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I thought it was so simple:
Pulling the ball gives you more power. Home runs are good. So, you pull as much as you can, until pitchers figure out not to give you anything you can pull. Then you do enough slapping to force them to give you pitches you can pull again.

But I last swung at a baseball about 33 years ago, and as usual, missed. What do I know?

by matthias on Jun 2, 2006 10:19 AM PDT   0 recs

I'm doing my part ...
... to pull as much as I can ...
Do you want to taste the rainbow? @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jun 2, 2006 10:23 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Mmmm...monkey jerkey
I mean...EWWW!
"the reason why hitting the ball on the "sweet spot" of the bat feels so good is that the ball is contacting at the bat at a vibrational node." - salb918

by McFood on Jun 2, 2006 10:29 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Monkeys can't swim.
So how do their sperm cells make it to the egg?
"I smell like a meadow." - Yuniesky Betancourt

by Ozzz on Jun 2, 2006 10:30 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

itsy-bitsy speedboats
Do you want to taste the rainbow? @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jun 2, 2006 10:45 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Like Shriners?
Do your spermies wear fez's?
"I smell like a meadow." - Yuniesky Betancourt

by Ozzz on Jun 2, 2006 3:22 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

not mine ...
... you must be thinking of Blez's.
Do you want to taste the rainbow? @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jun 2, 2006 4:06 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Or F-Rod's.
Oh no, what am I thinking?

They miss the egg, then sulk off.

"I smell like a meadow." - Yuniesky Betancourt

by Ozzz on Jun 2, 2006 6:30 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Bullpen cart?
"the reason why hitting the ball on the "sweet spot" of the bat feels so good is that the ball is contacting at the bat at a vibrational node." - salb918

by McFood on Jun 2, 2006 10:46 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I was 11 damn seconds from the big time

Story of my life. If I had been 4 seconds faster in the 40 yd. dash I would have been All American.

Always the bridesmaid, never the bride.

Except for my wedding, in which I still wasn't the bride.

"the reason why hitting the ball on the "sweet spot" of the bat feels so good is that the ball is contacting at the bat at a vibrational node." - salb918

by McFood on Jun 2, 2006 10:49 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Were you
at least the best man?

by andeux on Jun 2, 2006 10:51 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I don't know, but I was the most willing...
"the reason why hitting the ball on the "sweet spot" of the bat feels so good is that the ball is contacting at the bat at a vibrational node." - salb918

by McFood on Jun 2, 2006 11:59 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

lol
Putting the "fun" in "perfunctory"

by Poppy on Jun 2, 2006 12:00 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

My great grandfather held the 100m world record
...for 16 hours. And because someone else broke the record less than 24 hours after he did, his name was never recorded in the record books.

True story. He also quit comedy school because he figured Vaudeville was dead and those new fangled moving pictures weren't ever going to catch on. His classmates, a pair of guys with the names Laurel, Hardy, and Chaplin, stuck it out and finished the course.

My great grandfather knew a thing or two about being a bridesmaid.

"I smell like a meadow." - Yuniesky Betancourt

by Ozzz on Jun 2, 2006 3:20 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Eric Byrnes
poster boy

Oh, and Nico, do you really teach sixth grade?

"Teixeira just missed it enough..." ~Vince Controneo, 4/24/06

by rich on Jun 2, 2006 10:56 AM PDT   0 recs

Yes, I am a teacher and counselor
for 6th, 7th, and 8th grade. However, we only use electroshock therapy with the 6th grade, because the 7th and 8th graders tend to tell their parents.

by Nico on Jun 2, 2006 11:31 AM PDT   0 recs

I take it you dont
play baseball? It's hard to see a pitch you like and not want to pull it.

by Ben25 on Jun 2, 2006 11:40 AM PDT   0 recs

Not true at all
Exhibits A-G: Olerud, Edgar Martinez, Carew, Boggs, Gwynn, Brett, Delgado. Some high average hitters, some "2Bs power" hitters, some power hitters.

You would think, and hope, that the difference between hitting .230 and .300 might outweigh the potential for the "good feeling" of the "perfect pull hit".

A lot of it comes down to discipline. These guys are too high up on the ladder, and too well paid, to succumb to the "lure of the pull hit" without my asking, "How about the lure of success?"

by Nico on Jun 2, 2006 12:45 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

To play devil's advocate
Are you saying it's easy to be Olerud, Edgar, Carew, Boggs, Gwynn, Brett, Delgado?
"The first night, we were right there," Bradley said. "All we needed was a couple of touchdowns, and we would have had them."

by jeepers on Jun 2, 2006 1:35 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

No, I'm saying there's a reason
why most .300+ hitters aren't dead pull hitters and why most dead pull hitters hit for fairly low averages.

So if a player is musing to himself, "Hmm...Would I rather emulate the styles employed by Carew and Olerud, or the styles employed by Steve Balboni and Jose Hernandez?" you would think the answer was obvious.

The solution is just as clear: It's up to the "chicks" to start digging .320 averages and stop digging the long ball. Ladies of AN, do you hear me? Next time Croz lines a soft single to right, I want to hear 8 foxy voices around the stadium all cooing, in unison, "Ooh, Bobby, now THAT'S hot!!!"

by Nico on Jun 2, 2006 2:23 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I am reading alot more into
your issue with this than just baseball.  Instead, a long drawn out metaphor or projection of male indaqecies.
the great playoff miss of 2004 followed by the good try of 2005...in 2006?...prove it.

by ak_A on Jun 2, 2006 3:27 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

or, as the case may be ...
... a short, truncated introjection?
Do you want to taste the rainbow? @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jun 2, 2006 4:07 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Well, I've always felt
that one of Crosby's problem is that his swing is so long.

And he always swings really hard.

Long.  And hard.

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Jun 2, 2006 4:41 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Hmm, maybe this is really
"a cry for help".  If that's the case, I am sure there is some men's group you can seek out for men's-studies-type-poetry reading and drum beating...maybe a right of passage out in the woods to boot.
the great playoff miss of 2004 followed by the good try of 2005...in 2006?...prove it.

by ak_A on Jun 2, 2006 4:05 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

or, as the case may be ...
... a "left" of passage for the southpaws among us ...
Do you want to taste the rainbow? @('.')@

by monkeyball on Jun 2, 2006 4:08 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

something about left handed
people that i don't trust...can't put my finger on it though..just a feeling.
the great playoff miss of 2004 followed by the good try of 2005...in 2006?...prove it.

by ak_A on Jun 2, 2006 4:28 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Sounds like you're just
trying to get me to meet you out in the woods where there are no witnesses. And by the way, AlaskaA, I'm left-handed.

by Nico on Jun 2, 2006 5:36 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Hey, nice writing Nico!
But you didn't use the required "Jason Kendall hit a freakin' homerun" line once!

<answers phone> What's that? I'm fired?

Shoot.

THE APOCALYPSE IS HERE. GET ME A [censored] HORSEMAN ~Kyli

by baseballgirl on Jun 2, 2006 11:42 AM PDT   0 recs

bbg fired?
About freakin' time.
Can intangibles exist? Only the ones you can touch.

by salb918 on Jun 2, 2006 11:43 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Fire roasted?
Oh, I thought you said "bbq fired".

Lunch time!

"the reason why hitting the ball on the "sweet spot" of the bat