Agreed, on all points.

(and I truly can see your point), it has been my complaint all along (and maybe part of my problem with Ken Macha) that the A's do not show any passion or fire for the game of baseball. I understand that taken to an extreme, it can be a bad thing, but quite honestly, I feel like the A's have been asleep for most of last season and the beginning of this one, and FINALLY something woke them up.

I like the fact that they aren't going to take any crap for being the offensive joke of the league, the push-overs, the baby rookie puppet team that is controlled by a GM who only cares about numbers and not The Game.

Much like the passion we have on these game threads with the throwing chairs and yelling <censored> comments, I like when my team gets a little fired up and develops a little passion for the game.

Kendall knows that he is not indispensible. He knows that he has a backup. He knows that he can fire this team up and make the players and fans care.

So, I care about these guys. I love sharing their passion. And I frankly want to kick the Angels' butts. It was nice, for once, to see that the team feels the same way.

I can certainly understand why a parent wouldn't want their children to see this brawl but the game goes a little deeper than just kids at times.  Is Shaq wrong for being an intimidator in basketball?  Intimidation is part of the deal... like it or not... and sometimes it works.  Why do you think the Yankees have won so many championships?  It wasn't because of fighting but it was because of intimidation or mystique (and maybe a little money) and they have scared many opponents over the years.  

I wonder how many championships would actually be won by teams with athletes that behave perfectly and never lose control of their emotions?  Granted... the Ron Artest situation was a horrible display for children and adults alike but the Kendall thing was a must in the unwritten rules of baseball.  I didn't write them but I love the game enough to honor them.

I've never cared for the brawls, but they're understandable when a guy is drilled by a fastball, or in hockey where there's a lot of other physical play. This one just seemed senseless, and with the Angels having lost 4 in a row, and the A's having won as many, and in a good position to make it 5 of each, not the ideal time to try to stir things up. I wonder if Kendall was letting his frustration at his own play get to him.

It will be interesting to see if he's suspended for the same amount of time as players who have charged the mound after getting hit, or for even longer.

I don't mean to be facetious either, but if you've ever studied the history of man, well, war and fighting are just a little bit involved. I don't advocate it either, and I'm the last guy that would ever start a fight, but if you still need it to be explained, well, I'm afraid you'll never get it.

What's up, Mr. Sciosscia?

As somebody who has played some ball, I can tell you that sometimes competitive fire just boils over.  It is not exactly a good thing but in that sense it is part of the game.  I do hear your arguments but, frankly, I do not think that this is such a huge deal.  

And this kind of thing does bring a team together.  You feel as if you are on the same side all the more when something like this happens.  

I agree that violence is an inappropriate response, and yet I still was entertained when Korach said that Kendall was charging the mound and wrestling Lackey.

The only way I can kind of explain it, is there's something about baseball brawls.  Here is an article from ESPN.com on the very subject: http://proxy.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?id=1239718

And I think the key point is if nobody gets hurt.

One brawl in at least 5 years against the division rival when the other team started it and we have a sportsmanship thread?  

Here's a couple of sites that may be more your speed:

croquetnation.com
vermontteddybear.com
airbag.com
disney.com
nerf.com

...this is the A's first instance of anything like this in years. It's not like it's a habit, nor something common. That's what made it so crazy (and fun) for some of us to see.

And it was the wrong call irrespective of whether or not you condone violence.  I don't, but that's not the issue here.

It hurt his team to get thrown out of the game, and his 10-day vacation is going to hurt the team a lot.  If he had a problem with what Lackey did, and views violence as an acceptable way of addressing it, he should have been waiting for Lackey outside the clubhouse door after the game.  I heard F.P. Santangelo relate a story about how he did this when he was a RiverCat, and agree with him that it's a better way to respond.

Fights are never a great idea. Kendall's vacation will hurt the team.
That being said, I think that it's much too easy to point fingers and say that you could do something else. When something like that happens, you aren't thinking over in your head, "Hmm, should I talk this out later, or beat him up after he gets out of the clubhouse?" You're acting NOW, and in the heat of the moment, you can do some stupid things. Sure, it isn't right. Sure, it'll have consequences. I'm not saying it should be encouraged. I'm just saying that it will happen, and a lot of times, when someone does something bad and talks smack about you, you'll be too mad to think about an alternative solution and you do something stupid. It happens. Jason is to blame, but Lackey is as well, and they were both angry, and both did something they shouldn't have.
I guess what I'm trying to say is, shit happens. I'm not sure why all the enthusiasm, since I wasn't here when it happened, but I'd like to venture a guess that they were angry Lackey did something stupid and were pleased someone was doing something about it. I don't want to speak for anybody, but that's the first thing I thought when I heard about it - I was pleased that Jason was standing up and not taking crap. It does help I'm completely obsessed with the A's and I hate the Angels, so I was happy Angels crap was being thrown back.
That said, I don't support fighting, but once again, with that said, I think you should put yourself in the same situation first and think about what you would do. If you were really mad about it, would you want to wait until later? Would you even think about it? Trading insults might have even led to the same conclusion.
All right, I'm stepping off my soapbox now. Just my two cents.

Why football is one of the most watched/popular sports is because of the contact.

It's so popular because it shows the carnage of war, it shows a battle between to seperate teams, taking it on on the field with one goal in mind, to win.

I don't see what's wrong with that. And im pretty sure most of you are huge football fans. So tell me, why is it such a bad thing if it happens in baseball?

Today marks the second time Jason Kendall has charged the mound in his big-league career, and his third major fight.  As most of you know, the first time was against our own Joe Kennedy.  The other time was Gary Sheffield:

http://pittsburgh.pirates.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/pit/news/pit_news.jsp?ymd=20040816&content_id=82985 9&vkey=news_pit&fext=.jsp

http://www.dodgerblues.com/content/features_fights.html#sheffield

..."stick that thing out there" isn't really that horrible. Maybe Jason was PMSing. I don't know. It was really stupid... unless we don't know something.

That being said, it was so spur-of-the-moment and so out of the norm, it was hard not to show some emotion in the thread. How often do we see the A's fight? It was crazy! Sure, I know fighting is dumb, and Jason should be punished. I don't want it to happen every game, but as long as no one was hurt, I don't really mind.

But I do feel it.  So I'd love to be able to explain it, but I'm not sure I can.

Mostly I think it's that we want to see our team get that "fired-up," and there isn't really an equivalent non-violent demonstration of "fired-up."  I think part of the enjoyment in seeing a brawl also reflects frustration and occasional feelings of powerlessness in some areas of "real life" -- I'd like to be allowed to just charge after somebody sometimes.  It would solve absolutely nothing, AND I'd get the crap knocked out of me... but, temperamentally, I can relate to the urge.

In my experience the sanctified "unwritten rules" say that when someone's talking smack at you, you return the barrage verbally.  After a few moments of jawing, the rest of both 25 man rosters, coaches, and little leaguers on benchalongs pour onto the field and posture.  There's a lot of "hold me back, hold me back."  Once in a great while there's a shove, but almost never are punches thrown when the instigating offense is just verbal.

Kendall took the massive retaliation approach instead.  Charging the mound in response to mere words breaks the code...charging the mound in response to headhunting pitches is a different matter.  The code says stand up for yourself in kind; it does not say your words deserve my fist.

at the game, because it looked like Kendall was getting ready to step back into the box when he suddenly started runnning out toward the mound. At first it looked to me like it had been some weird passed ball situation and he was running... but I was confused cuz he was running toward the mound and not first haha. I've never been to a game where the benches cleared and the bullpens came out and there was an actual rumble and I have to say it was a weird experience. There were obviously a lot of people cheering, but most of the people in my section (212, which is under the overhang on the field level, between home and 3rd, but closer to home, if you are curious) were just really confused, standing around going ... um what just happened?

My first reaction (when I realized what was happening) was "oh my god kendall what are you doing", but once I heard that Lackey said something it somewhat justified it. I still think it was a stupid move to run out and get suspended since the ball never hit him, but I can see why he did it. (and I will admit I did like on the replays how Kendall took Lackey down even with Mathis hanging on his back.)

I was half expecting someone to throw a drink at me or something just for being an A's fan after that. INTENSE. Made me even MORE glad we won.

At first, I was happy to hear that the A's had been in a bench-clearing brawl - like someone above said, nothing unites a group more than a fight, and no one ever gets hurt.

But the source of the brawl is truly pathetic.  That Kendall's only response to a verbal assault was to try to fight Lackey makes me think so much less of him.  That says: 1) He's not smart enough to come up with a fitting (verbal) retort, and/or 2) Lackey's remarks about Kendall's ineptitude at the plate hit very close to Kendall's insecurities about himself.

In my mind, Kendall's reaction today wasn't much different than Frank Francisco's last year.

signed,

Iron Mike Tyson

Every sport has a level of violence that's acceptable with the moral code of that sport. Baseball has the hard slide into second, the collisions at home plate, the retaliation beanball and the charging of the mound.  In the real world, it would be unacceptable to throw a hard object 90 mph at someone's head for an insult. In baseball, it's basically mandatory at times.

The charging of the mound is ritualized and stylized. For instance, you can't bring your bat, you can't call in other people to help, you can't bite, you can't throw the shattered part of a bat at the batter (hi Roger), you can't wait until after the game and mug him in the shower, you can't attack the catcher, you can't urinate on the other guy, etc. There are a lot of rules which make it a very formalized kind of violence.

One can argue whether Kendall was justified charging, but the form of violence itself is a well-established part of the sport.

Personally, I think baseball players are way too sensitive about dumb stuff, like looking at the pitcher after a homer or running too slowly around the bases, or insulting each other on the field.  But once those customs are established, it is a kind of weakness to not respond in all the ways allowed in the code.

As for the enthusiasm, I assume it's because we want the A's to project as much strength as possible within the code of baseball.

Kendall took Lackey out of the game.  Kendall will most likely get a 5 game suspension while Lackey might miss a start.

You guys should praise Kendall for picking the right time to charge at a pitcher, if he charged someone like Chris Bootcheck, then you have a right to complain.  But overall Kendall needed to give John Lackey a "Hey Biatch, time to eat grass."  What's a guy suppose to do after you mouth off at him or call him a blowj0b?  Pretend not to hear it?  Yeah right...

absolutely loved seeing Kendall throw that frickin' Sally Monkey down to the ground.

Bottoms up for ol' Kendall!

in the political sense...  And I enjoyed the brawl (although I do acknowledge lurker's points as having some merrit).  

At least this happened today, and not against the royals. That would have been no good at all, because it doesn't matter what the royals say during a game, we will beat them at Kauffman any day anytime.

...if people are so positive on Kendall's reaction, because it was Kendall?  What if it was Chavez or Swisher instead?

3-1 game against our hated rivals, 6th inning, Lackey dealing, bases juiced with one out.  If Swisher were batting, decided to rush the mound just because Lackey mouthed off, and got suspended for 5 games, would people be so happy about the situation?

My guess would be that everyone would be pissed that Swisher hurt the A's chances at padding the lead in a critical game, and for taking himself out of action for mulitple games due to suspension.  We're more willing to excuse Kendall because he's such a terrible hitter, and because he has so much, you know, grit.

But that doesn't make what he did right.

Quelle Horreur!

Just kidding. Fights have always been part of the game of baseball. Guys used to really go at it in locker rooms and much more often on the field  when I was a young girl. This isn't unique and it isn't some moral debate.

I was proud of Kendall. Two guys on one and he still took down big-mouth Lackey. And  I bet Lackey minds his manners a little better in the future considering his sassy ass got thrown out of the game and he was one of the MAJOR reasons that the Halos lost.

"Pawn for a queen" is the BEST analogy I've ever heard, HollywoodOz!!!!

Count me with the minority who thinks Kendall's act was childish and ditto for the fans cheering him on.  If that's what "fire" is, I don't want fire on our team.  That's just being a bad sport.  I can't believe you guys complain about Scioscia arguing all the time and yet you condone this.

And I suppose that's why Eric Chavez is my favorite A, and Kendall is ... well, he's not.

I avoid violence at all cost, until of course, someone begs for an ass-whipping. And it was clear Lackey was calling for one. Kendall did a great thing by lifting the spirits of this ball club and it couldn't have come against a better opponent.

Kendall is a hard nosed, old school type baller that Lackey should've known not to talk smack to. If Lackey was smart, he should've waited for Chavy to bat b4 mouthing off... Chavy would've said, "But I didn't lean in, I tried to avoid getting hit, I swear Mr. Lackey."  "Let's all be friends here."