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Why such enthusiasm for the fight?

Little_d_tiny by lurkerD on

I don't get it.  To me it is a no-brainer.  You do not resort to physical violence.  Ever.  It's part of good sportsmanship and self-control, both of which are essential for a top-tier athlete.

I see it as an embarrassing loss of control, stupid and inappropriate no matter what anyone said to anyone else.

If my kids see pics of baseball brawling in the paper or on the web we always talk about it with an attitude of a really bummer thing that happened, a shame - no matter which team did it.  When the kids play sports it is 100% unacceptable for them to get physical in any way under any circumstances, and dealing with frustration WITHOUT getting physical is a big part of what they're learning.

In the game thread there was great excitement about the brawl - mine too - Holy Moley!  But then, admiration for Kendall, praise for his losing it, a feeling it was "good for the team", that it showed "balls".  What the heck?  To me it is shameful and ridiculous and shows that he is (or was at least in that moment) acting like a big ole baby that couldn't control himself.  AND he got himself suspended, which is certainly harmful to the team.

I don't get it.

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standing O
Agreed, on all points.
Shut, shut, shut your cold, mean mouth! - Poppy @('.')@

by monkeyball on May 2, 2006 4:19 PM PDT   0 recs

Please
Sports are played with emotion and sometimes fistacuffs break out. Get over it....

by DeeWayne on May 2, 2006 4:22 PM PDT   0 recs

Well
Many things in life are done with as much or much more emotion than sports without fisticuffs.
Nothing says fun like Premium Meat!

by lurkerD on May 2, 2006 4:34 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

How much more emotion?
Would you have preferred Kendall go and start humping Lackey's leg, or if he just tossed his hotel room key at him?
More ANtics: http://www.louisgray.com/live/ | Archive

by louismg on May 2, 2006 4:36 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I would have preferred leg humping
That would have been very entertaining to watch on ESPN and may have preempted the Barroid home run

by DeeWayne on May 2, 2006 4:41 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

For me....
(and I truly can see your point), it has been my complaint all along (and maybe part of my problem with Ken Macha) that the A's do not show any passion or fire for the game of baseball. I understand that taken to an extreme, it can be a bad thing, but quite honestly, I feel like the A's have been asleep for most of last season and the beginning of this one, and FINALLY something woke them up.

I like the fact that they aren't going to take any crap for being the offensive joke of the league, the push-overs, the baby rookie puppet team that is controlled by a GM who only cares about numbers and not The Game.

Much like the passion we have on these game threads with the throwing chairs and yelling <censored> comments, I like when my team gets a little fired up and develops a little passion for the game.

Kendall knows that he is not indispensible. He knows that he has a backup. He knows that he can fire this team up and make the players and fans care.

So, I care about these guys. I love sharing their passion. And I frankly want to kick the Angels' butts. It was nice, for once, to see that the team feels the same way.

Giants fans are fighting back. I'm now hearing "Let's Go Shopping!"- jeepers

by baseballgirl on May 2, 2006 4:23 PM PDT   0 recs

I hear you
Here's a question:  Is there something other than physical violence that shows passion or fire?  That would show us they weren't taking crap and wanted to kick the Angels' butts, etc?

(Just to be clear, I'm not being facetious, I really want to think about about what OTHER THAN THIS could show us passion and fire from our team.)

Nothing says fun like Premium Meat!

by lurkerD on May 2, 2006 4:27 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

sure
For instance I always want someone to get themselves ejected if an ump is screwing us and the game is out of hand.  I don't like how our players typically sit there and take it.  Same goes for Macha.  There are times and places to get ejected or for a manager to take one for the team.  I've seen Macha get booted on purpose before so I know its in him...

by DrDoom on May 2, 2006 4:31 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Good point
I agree.
Nothing says fun like Premium Meat!

by lurkerD on May 2, 2006 4:38 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Assault
I guess he could have verbally assaulted Lackey and then waited to see if things calmed down.  If Lackey talked s*** then Kendall must not back down.  NEVER.

Had they yelled back and forth for a few seconds, do you really think there would have been a different outcome anyway?

"If you're surprised by getting the job done, that means you didn't expect it out of yourself." -Huston Street

by ohtobe21likehuston on May 2, 2006 4:31 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

i don't know what
lackey said to Kendall, but there's something to be said about not taking crap from your opponet.  for one thing, letting them get away with stuff certainly gives them to some degree a mental edge.  lackey knowing that Kendall from now on can run out and beat him down will always be in the back of his mind when facing the A's in the future.  some times it just gets to a point that something extreme must be done.  when i was growing up, my dad believed in spankings - the thing about is that i never knew when it'd be coming.  it was a build up of bad things that after a while would push my add up of bad things over the limit.  it may have been just some small thing that pushed it over the line, but the punishment would be severe for all the build up.
"Apparently there's a rule that you have to be old enough to drive yourself to the induction ceremony. So obviously that's not gonna work."

by F171615 on May 2, 2006 4:35 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

the offensive joke of the league
The way to respond to that is to, uh, not be.
Shut, shut, shut your cold, mean mouth! - Poppy @('.')@

by monkeyball on May 2, 2006 4:31 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Baseball 101
I can certainly understand why a parent wouldn't want their children to see this brawl but the game goes a little deeper than just kids at times.  Is Shaq wrong for being an intimidator in basketball?  Intimidation is part of the deal... like it or not... and sometimes it works.  Why do you think the Yankees have won so many championships?  It wasn't because of fighting but it was because of intimidation or mystique (and maybe a little money) and they have scared many opponents over the years.  

I wonder how many championships would actually be won by teams with athletes that behave perfectly and never lose control of their emotions?  Granted... the Ron Artest situation was a horrible display for children and adults alike but the Kendall thing was a must in the unwritten rules of baseball.  I didn't write them but I love the game enough to honor them.

"If you're surprised by getting the job done, that means you didn't expect it out of yourself." -Huston Street

by ohtobe21likehuston on May 2, 2006 4:27 PM PDT   0 recs

that's nonsense
Chatter and trash talk goes on all the time -- and hardly anyone ever attacks someone physically for it, especially in baseball.

How, exactly, is Kendall charging the mound either following some imaginary "unwritten rule" or "honoring the game"?

Shut, shut, shut your cold, mean mouth! - Poppy @('.')@

by monkeyball on May 2, 2006 4:30 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Watch Baseball Tonight
Let's see what the ex-players say about it tonight.  I just talked to a buddy of mine who played professional baseball and he thought it was justified and he was a PITCHER.  Baseball is no "tea party" and you can't let someone intimidate you like that.  

Honestly, Monkeyball-- let's not debate about what WE think about the game.   We should let the ex-players tell us how it works and then not question them since I am sitting in an office with a flat screen computer, very comfortable chair and a nice window view.  I'm not between the lines and I'm guessing you're not either.

I'll eat my words tomorrow if they take your side on things.  I definitely wish that there was no violence in the world but that's not very realistic.

"If you're surprised by getting the job done, that means you didn't expect it out of yourself." -Huston Street

by ohtobe21likehuston on May 2, 2006 4:39 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Joe Morgan? John Kruk? Harold freakin' Reynolds?
Yeah, I'll defer judgment to those analytic paragons. Right.
Shut, shut, shut your cold, mean mouth! - Poppy @('.')@

by monkeyball on May 2, 2006 4:42 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Joe Morgan
He is on Baseball Tonight?  I would not listen to Joe Morgan or Peter Gammons.  I would definitely listen to Kruk and Reynolds.  I would also like to hear Jeff Brantley since he was a pitcher.  

I think you are offering your opinion about the world as a whole rather than looking at it from a baseball/sports angle.  It's great to have passion about any topic but I don't think there is much to talk about in regards to this incident.  This is less serious than most verbal arguments I've had in my life.  

"If you're surprised by getting the job done, that means you didn't expect it out of yourself." -Huston Street

by ohtobe21likehuston on May 2, 2006 4:50 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Uh ...
... well, you keep avoiding responding to my questions, and now I have to assume you're not actually reading what I've been writing.

I'll be clear: I'm not 100% opposed to all fights in sports -- if Lackey had actually been throwing at Kendall (especially at his head or behind him) -- I think Kendall would have been 100% justified in charging the mound.

But that's not what happened. Lackey threw a curveball (!) that started inside and tailed back toward the plate. Kendall made a half-assed attempt to milk an HBP. Lackey pointed out that that's about the only way Kendall's going to get on base. Kendall yapped at him, Lackey yapped back. Kendall charged the mound.

Not justified.

Shut, shut, shut your cold, mean mouth! - Poppy @('.')@

by monkeyball on May 2, 2006 4:57 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

No. It wasn't. At all.
<small voice> And I still loved the heck out of it, mostly for the unexpected of it. It gives me hope that the A's will not roll over and play dead to anyone this year.
Giants fans are fighting back. I'm now hearing "Let's Go Shopping!"- jeepers

by baseballgirl on May 2, 2006 5:00 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

yes, Kendall won't roll over and play dead ...
... except for the next time he grounds out weakly with men on base.
Shut, shut, shut your cold, mean mouth! - Poppy @('.')@

by monkeyball on May 2, 2006 5:19 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I did respond to your question
I don't need bold or italic writing to understand that you don't understand the unwritten rules.  You think that taking crap off someone who is mouthing off during a heated competition is okay... and those that play the game probably don't agree.  Or at least my friend who played ball said it was justified.

Here is a bad example-- it's kind of like a baseball player coming into an office environment and sending emails in all caps.  IT WOULD BE ANNOYING TO THOSE IN THE OFFICE AND WOULD PROBABLY COME WITH SOME FORM OF A REPRIMAND IF THE EMAIL CAME ACROSS AS RUDE... EVEN IF THE PERSON WHO SENT IT MAY HAVE SPOKEN IN A DIFFERENT CONTEXT.  I don't think we can necessarily interpret whether or not it was justified but it seems that Kendall probably used some pretty clear thinking on this deal since he's been around for a while.

Look... I think you are hilarious on this website and don't want to stir up any ill feelings.  I believe both of our hearts are in the right place but I really don't think we'll ever get anywhere on this topic.  You can have the last word because it's 7:18 where I live and I'm hungry!!

"If you're surprised by getting the job done, that means you didn't expect it out of yourself." -Huston Street

by ohtobe21likehuston on May 2, 2006 5:18 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I don't want the ding-dang last wo--
Oops.
Shut, shut, shut your cold, mean mouth! - Poppy @('.')@

by monkeyball on May 2, 2006 5:25 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Game
Doesn't sound like you watched the game.

Kendall could have easily leaned into the curveball w/ the bases loaded, but he didn't.

Lackey said, "Why don't you just stick out your arm?"

Kendall says (while running @ Lackey), "You f'ing beeping, mother f'er", and promptly puts Lackey in a UFC style choke hold.

Kendall is OLD SCHOOL.  Pitchers should never smart off to hitters, unless they are ready to go toe to toe.  Lackey didn't think Kendall would.

If I were Kendall, I would have done the same exact thing.  I wouldn't be able to look at my teammates and peers the same way.  Every player would think differenlty of Kendall if he DIDN'T rush the mount.

Good Job, JK!

June 19th - June 21st, 2006 ** Oakland Athletics @ Colorado Rockies ** Lets Go Oak-Land!

by Colorado Fan on May 2, 2006 5:52 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

CORRECTION
Lackey probably DID expect Kendall to rush the mound, at least based on this quote:

"Jason has had a history of leaning out over the plate, trying to get hit," Lackey said. "He stuck his elbow guard out over the plate and I told him not to. He had a problem with it, and he came out and got me. He has a right to do that, and I'm totally cool with it."

I have to give Lackey props for saying Kendall actually has a RIGHT to charge the mound in that situation.

I guess it's pretty rare for a pitcher to mouth off in a game.  But if there was a brawl every time I mouthed off in a soccer game, there'd be 2 brawls a game (and in basketball, about 20 per game).

Bill James on Duane Kuiper: "It's absolutely incredible that a player this bad could be given 3000 at bats in the major leagues." -- Baseball Abstract, 1982

by blueconversechucks on May 3, 2006 9:42 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Re: Game

I just watched the MLB.com video a few times, and even though Lackey had his back to the camera, you can hear what he says pretty clearly:  "Why don't you f-in' (blah blah)..."  The rest is lost in crowd reaction as Kendall was charging the mound.  

And hell yeah, Kendall did the right thing.

Hey bud, what's your problem? -- Jeff Spicoli to Mr. Hand

by 66th Hegenberger on May 3, 2006 3:24 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

classic
Proof that TV is the ultimate legitimizer.  Who can guess exactly, but it seems a disturbingly-safe bet that hundreds of thousands Americans say each day, "I'd better tune into Baseball Tonight, see what John Kruk and Harold Reynolds think about this."

by rubin sierra on May 2, 2006 11:57 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

don't get me wrong, ohtobe21
I did mean to mock your statement that you couldn't wait to see what the guys on Baseball Tonight had to say--because I think that Kruk and Reynolds seldom say anything that makes sense or is worth listening to.  But I wish I'd mocked in a way that better respected other opinions.  Don't be too mad at me; definitely don't charge the mound at me ... please!

by rubin sierra on May 3, 2006 1:57 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

No offense taken
I think BBT is one medium where you can immediately receive an opinion from people who have played the game.  They are not necessarily always right but I trust more than any of us on this site.  

"If you keep digging in than the next one will be at your HEAD!!"  Oh wait <wakes up> I'm not a ballplayer.  

"If you're surprised by getting the job done, that means you didn't expect it out of yourself." -Huston Street

by ohtobe21likehuston on May 3, 2006 3:00 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

So
We should accept and condone violence because ex-players say that's how it works.  This reminds me of Joe Morgan commenting on Moneyball.
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by lurkerD on May 2, 2006 4:42 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Kendall
If he doesn't rush the mound in that situation, he loses the respect of his peers.  

Bottom Line.

June 19th - June 21st, 2006 ** Oakland Athletics @ Colorado Rockies ** Lets Go Oak-Land!

by Colorado Fan on May 2, 2006 5:54 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

No way
Someone talks a little smack, he can talk some smack back.  
Nothing says fun like Premium Meat!

by lurkerD on May 2, 2006 6:01 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Not if you're REALLY old school
And it ain't just baseball! Like, I'm an old school technical writer... today, some code-monkey puke mouthed off to me in my cubicle, said he didn't like the way I formatted the release notes for his lame-ass build. Well, I saw red! Naturally, I grabbed my trusty "Equalizer 2.0" (a length of heater hose stuffed with fishing sinkers and studded with roofing nails) and shut his punk mouth up but good! So, really, Kendall was showing a lot of restraint by not whipping out a rusty catfish knife and cutting out Lackey's liver!

Well, no. In my version of the Unwritten Baseball Rulebook, you don't have the right to charge the mound unless the pitcher beans you and then smarts off at you. In my eyes, Kendall has gone from being Iron Jawed Tough Guy to Psycho Crybaby, just like that.

6/6/06 - National Day of Slayer

by AlamedaAphid on May 2, 2006 8:51 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

LOL
Oh yeah, now THAT'S a tech writer like they used to make 'em!
Nothing says fun like Premium Meat!

by lurkerD on May 2, 2006 9:05 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

what you think Kendall is was in the wrong
and you call yourself a SLAYER fan??????? ahhh man dude.....<shakes head disapprovingly and sighs>
Bring back the Bash! Bring back the Mustache! Go A's in 2006!!!
Death To The Angels!!

by Shippee33 on May 2, 2006 10:52 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Talking Smack
Never NOT seen a hitter rush a pitcher after being shown up after a 1st Pitch Ball...after a strikeout, putout, etc...Yes.  But in the friggin' of an AT-BAT???  

Lackey is a fat, out of shape mouth breather who cannot wrestle for crap...FISH.

June 19th - June 21st, 2006 ** Oakland Athletics @ Colorado Rockies ** Lets Go Oak-Land!

by Colorado Fan on May 2, 2006 11:13 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

and what's more ...
... you specifically avoided answering my question.

You are the debating equivalent of Jason Kendall batting.

What? You justified in attacking me now?

Shut, shut, shut your cold, mean mouth! - Poppy @('.')@

by monkeyball on May 2, 2006 4:45 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I'm not avoiding an anything
The answer is you don't understand this portion of the game.  I'm not questioning your intelligence because that would be idiotic but this is nothing that can be explained in a way that you will be convinced.  You either get it or you don't.  
"If you're surprised by getting the job done, that means you didn't expect it out of yourself." -Huston Street

by ohtobe21likehuston on May 2, 2006 4:56 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

After playing and umpiring as long as I have
there is always a certain word that will trigger even the most mild mannered player, coach or umpire. We don't know what was said or how it was said. This may be something that has been festering between them for a while.

I do not condone fighting or violence at all, but sometimes it is avoidable.

by 3up3dn on May 2, 2006 4:56 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

I did not mean to imply
that the game is just about kids.  Intimidation and mystique are earned in many many ways, and I don't see physical violence as an acceptable way to earn them.

I also think it's hard to draw a line - Artest="horrible" but Kendall="a must"? Who makes these judgements?  How does one decide what level or type of situation makes a loss of emotional control ok or how much violence is an acceptable level?

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by lurkerD on May 2, 2006 4:31 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

difference
artest went into the stands and took it to another level.  I do not think the two fights are even close to the same on any level.
"Mommy and Daddy are going to take a nap before the baseball game starts..."

by Athletics fan and runner on May 2, 2006 4:38 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

The line
Artest was bad becaue he hit fans, Delmon Young is bad because he threw a bat at full speed towards an umpire.

This fight was player vs player and no weapons were involved.

This was as close to an "honorable" fight as there can be in sports.

"It was an incredible catch, but I didn't really like his footwork." - Ken Macha

by secret ASian man on May 2, 2006 4:38 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Agreed.
Bringing the bats or the fans into it puts it at a different level. I mean, honestly... most baseball brawls look more like foreplay than actual fighting.
"This must be heaven," he says.
"No. It's Oakland."

by Kyli on May 3, 2006 12:32 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

*most baseball brawls look more like foreplay...*
I want to party with you, cowgirl! ;)
"ESPN is still replaying the Barry Bonds homer in Colorado like it was hit with a flaming toothpick by a guy in a wheelchair." - HollywoodOz

by McFood on May 3, 2006 7:49 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Why such contempt...
For good old fashioned wholesome violence?

Its fun... simple as that.  I enjoyed hearing about it.  I can't wait to watch it.  I want to hear interviews about it etc etc.  

Anything that can get the team and the fans riled up is probably a good thing.

And sometimes resorting to physical violence is an ok thing. Its not like anyone is going to be seriously wounded in a bout of fistacuffs... Pulling a gun or a knife on a guy is not ok but theres absolutely nothing wrong with a good baseball brawl.

by DrDoom on May 2, 2006 4:29 PM PDT   0 recs

Yup.
As a guy who once broke a guy's rib by dropping a shoulder into him as he ran past playing SOCCER, sports is a place where emotions (should) run high, passion ditto, and if someone wants to intimidate you (as Lackey was clearly trying to do), then you owe it to yourself to make that prick think twice next time.

I'm not saying you need to take his teeth out - I'm just saying when a guy sees you throw down and run at him full tilt, he knows he's gone too far. He'll remember that next time.

It's part of sports - the intimidation factor, the psych-out, feeding the intensity of your teammates by showing them you're 100% into the game, come what may.

Oh, and not for nothing, but Kendall, rightly or wrongly, took the Angels starting pitcher OUT OF THE GAME! We lost our worst guy. They lost one of their best.

Smart move by Kendall, no matter what you think of how he did it. He helped win this game.

"That quote sucked." - McFood

by Ozzz on May 2, 2006 6:41 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

hand in your Anti-Scioscia Club card
Agreed that it was a good tactical move getting Lackey out of the game.

But that's a punk-ass Whiney Mike Scioscia-type move, isn't it? Can't compete legitimately against the opposition? Find an extralegal maneuver or hairsplitting distinction to eliminate the opposition's edge.

Yes, absolutely, part of the game ever since the first apeman "cheated" by using a thighbone to bludgeon a wild boar -- but it's still a punk-ass Whiney Mike Scioscia-type move.

Shut, shut, shut your cold, mean mouth! - Poppy @('.')@

by monkeyball on May 3, 2006 9:53 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Debatable.
I can see your point, but I see Kendall's charge as much more creative than simply whining until you get your way. He got the other guy chucked AND revved up his teammates. Score!

After all, Scioscia tried his routine out later on and all it got him was an early shower.

"That quote sucked." - McFood

by Ozzz on May 3, 2006 9:58 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Tend to agree
I've never cared for the brawls, but they're understandable when a guy is drilled by a fastball, or in hockey where there's a lot of other physical play. This one just seemed senseless, and with the Angels having lost 4 in a row, and the A's having won as many, and in a good position to make it 5 of each, not the ideal time to try to stir things up. I wonder if Kendall was letting his frustration at his own play get to him.

It will be interesting to see if he's suspended for the same amount of time as players who have charged the mound after getting hit, or for even longer.

There is a limit to an intelligent person's enjoyment of the irony of being regarded as an imbecile by fools. And it is soon reached. -Wm. Gerhardie

by andeux on May 2, 2006 4:31 PM PDT   0 recs

As you said, you don't get it.
I don't mean to be facetious either, but if you've ever studied the history of man, well, war and fighting are just a little bit involved. I don't advocate it either, and I'm the last guy that would ever start a fight, but if you still need it to be explained, well, I'm afraid you'll never get it.
"ESPN is still replaying the Barry Bonds homer in Colorado like it was hit with a flaming toothpick by a guy in a wheelchair." - HollywoodOz

by McFood on May 2, 2006 4:36 PM PDT   0 recs

Thanks, Sun Tzu
Shut, shut, shut your cold, mean mouth! - Poppy @('.')@

by monkeyball on May 2, 2006 4:46 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Really?
You don't mean to be facetious.  Okay, I'll take that at face value.  So I'll clarify.  What I don't get is not the existance of the violence.  It's the cheering of it and the admiration for it and the thinking it was terrific.
Nothing says fun like Premium Meat!

by lurkerD on May 2, 2006 4:47 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Why do some people like violence?
Well, then, I'll leave it to others who are more well spoken to answer you, or you can read what I'm sure are volumes and volumes about the human psyche, or what a bunch of testerone laden neanderthals (some)men are. As for me, I'm going to drop my bat(pen), and charge the mound(Powerpoint presentation) here in my cubicle.
"ESPN is still replaying the Barry Bonds homer in Colorado like it was hit with a flaming toothpick by a guy in a wheelchair." - HollywoodOz

by McFood on May 2, 2006 5:20 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

hilarious post
Reminds me of some Calvin-and-Hobbes cartoons where he fights with the irresistible urge to hit Susie Derkins with a snowball.  "Why are we wired this way?" he asks.  "I don't know, but we are."  

Damn, this is a fun thread!  Must continue scanning my way through it to see what various AN wiseguys and wisegals have to say about violence in sports and in civilization.

by rubin sierra on May 2, 2006 10:45 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Dude, it was smart play.
We lost a non-hitting catcher. They lost their starting pitcher.

Kendall sacrificed a pawn to get their queen. Genius move.

"That quote sucked." - McFood

by Ozzz on May 2, 2006 6:43 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

That's it exactly.
No matter what we think of his offense, nobody doubts that Kendall plays some gutsy, heads-up baseball. First his face first tag at the plate, then his sulk-off run, now his Lackey ejection. He's already made himself a legend in A's history.

I seriously think it wasn't emotion. It was a premeditated move to take Lackey out of the game. If he wanted to get one run out of it and have Lackey pitch 8 innings, he could have taken one on the elbow, like always. He took it to a new level.

I don't condone violence, but he knew what it would take to send Lackey to the showers early.

My favorite Japanese A's player you ask? Bari Shitou!

by almostreggie on May 2, 2006 8:05 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Extra-Curricular Activities
...should never be condoned especially with Kendall's imminent(sp?) suspension. The real tragedy is when one of our boys gets injured from losing control. The most recent reminder is Hudson during the playoffs against the Red Sox a few years ago. It's conjecture at this point but he didn't do well in his subsequent start.
   Back in the early 80's the Angels and A's HATED each other. I remember several fights b/w our teams. The Giants/Dodgers rivalry got most of the notoriety but ours was intense. In fact, when McGwire was a rookie en route to his 49 HRs he was plunked AND often. But LaRussa would get pissed but not do much about it... until he had Stewart to drive fear into the opposition. But that's the "game within the game" that transpires.
   In today's altercation, luckily no one was hurt. I want our team to beat their team at the healthiest best, not b/c they were a man down from a stupidly induced injury.  
   
"I've been accused of using too many words...I suppose that's like accusing Mozart of using too many notes." Bill King

by Gerard on May 2, 2006 4:40 PM PDT   0 recs

WAAAAAAHHHHH
What's up, Mr. Sciosscia?
I'll try not to swear.

by Tony on May 2, 2006 4:40 PM PDT   0 recs

As somebody who has played some ball
As somebody who has played some ball, I can tell you that sometimes competitive fire just boils over.  It is not exactly a good thing but in that sense it is part of the game.  I do hear your arguments but, frankly, I do not think that this is such a huge deal.  

And this kind of thing does bring a team together.  You feel as if you are on the same side all the more when something like this happens.  

"Mommy and Daddy are going to take a nap before the baseball game starts..."

by Athletics fan and runner on May 2, 2006 4:41 PM PDT   0 recs

Yes
I think you put it well, thanks.  But is it something to be cheered on?  That's where I can't go.
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by lurkerD on May 2, 2006 4:45 PM PDT to parent up   0 recs

As AFAR said...
And this kind of thing does bring a team together.  You feel as if you are on the same side all the more when something like this happens.

As fans, we feel in many ways as if we are an extention of the team.  We go to games, we wear our jerseys, and many of us live and die on every pitch and every play our team makes.  So just as the team is brought closer together from Kendall storming the mound, we too are brought together as fans from such actions.

For me, I've always hated Lackey.  I think he's a whiny little biatch, and Kendall's actions didn't bother me.  Trust me, Kendall wouldn't just charge Lackey for nothing.  Primarily, Kendall's actions reflect his boiling point of frustration with Lackey, and likely it reflects his teammates' feelings too.  I mean c'mon-- Kots patted Kendall on the back in the dugout after the fracas.  Similarly, many of us here in the AthleticsNation hate Lackey (and the Angels), so Kendall's actions  were seen in a different light than, say, another batter charging the mound might be.

By virtue of the fact that we are fans and have an allegiance to the A's, Kendall's actions do, in a way, reflect on us (i.e.- reputation of the team we openly support, the suspension Kendall face and the affect on the A's-- standing-wise, ramifications for young fans just getting to know the game, etc.), and therefore we can choose whether or not to be happy or not that the fight occurred.

I can clearly see reasons why one wouldn't be happy about the fight, but at the same time, I can see how many fans (myself included) could be happy about it.  For one, it was entertaining.  Kendall took down a guy much bigger than him while dragging another guy, which, in some way, is awesome.  But beyond just being interested in the melee, many people (and this is the more pertinent claim) saw Kendall's actions as positive in that they reflected both his (and our) growing frustration with Lackey's shit talking.  As fans, we don't have the power that players do to do something about annoyances like Lackey, so Kendall represents us and he did something about a whiny pitcher.  As many other posters have said, this has positive effects in terms of team morale/fire and getting in the head of the opposing team-- showing them you won't take their shit, so they shouldn't even try.  So while there are negative effects of such a fight, any fan who supports Kendall's actions obviously believes that the positives of it (which can include, but are not limited to entertainment value) outweigh the negatives.

Down goes Lackey! DOWN GOESSS LACKEY!!!
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by rungood on May 3, 2006 2:48 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

Lackey's shit-talking
But beyond just being interested in the melee, many people (and this is the more pertinent claim) saw Kendall's actions as positive in that they reflected both his (and our) growing frustration with Lackey's shit talking.

I'm confused.  In what way did Kendall's frustration with Lackey's "shit-talking" grow?  As far as I could tell from the tape, it germinated, sprouted, and blossomed in less than 1.5 seconds based on one statement Lackey made.  

Kendall certainly should have said something back, probably in his typically colorful brand of language.  But why should he have gotten himself tossed from the game by instigating violence, as well as from the next several games?  Since this is his FOURTH suspension for fighting, he might get a longer vacation than people think, and that will not be good for the team.  

"The first night, we were right there," Bradley said. "All we needed was a couple of touchdowns, and we would have had them."

by jeepers on May 3, 2006 8:20 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs

causation v. correllation
You're right, jeepers-- I don't know for a fact that Kendall's frustration with Lackey was definitively growing or if it was a complete snap on Kendall's part in the heat of the moment.  But if I had to guess (and I'm forced to, being a lowly fan), I would say that his frustration was likely growing-- based on the fact that Lackey had already hit him once, last September-- and this was just the straw that broke the camel's back.

Sure, Kendall could have used some self-restraint, and I'm not advocating fighting, but what I'm saying is just that there was likely something brewing that we have no idea of the complexity of, and Lackey's shit-talking/idiotic comment pushed Kendall over the edge.

I mean, even as a fan watching on TV, I hate Lackey and the demeanor with which he carries himself.  So I can only imagine what Kendall must have been feeling when the big guy has already hit him once, and then starts crazily barking at him.  That's all I'm saying...

Down goes Lackey! DOWN GOESSS LACKEY!!!
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by rungood on May 3, 2006 11:01 AM PDT to parent up   0 recs