We're hypocrites if we boo Bonds

by mendelbob on May 19, 2006 5:25 PM PDT

(first, i've gotta say that I'm a bit nervous about creating yet another Barry Bonds diary when I could have posted this message on a previous thread. however, i do think that's i'm trying to start a discussion that hasn't been had head-on. i hope at least some of you will agree that this discussion needs to take place.)

We all seem to be in agreement about two things:

bonds is jerk.
bonds took steriods.

seems like we've known he was a jerk for a while, so for any of you that have been booing him for being jerk for a while, please feel free to go on booing. this post isn't really aimed at people who want to boo bonds just cause they don't like him.

the steriods knowledge is "new". it's a bad thing that's been going on for a long time, but officially, we just found out about it. bonds is the poster boy for this "discovery".

personally, i don't really care that bonds is a jerk. but i am deeply affected by his steriod use. you know why? because he reminds me that giambi (and maybe tejada) were cheating when we had the best team in baseball. he reminds me that canseco and mcguire were cheating when we had the best team in baseball. he makes me feel ashamed of the team i love.

as an a's fan, i would feel like a total hypocrite for booing bonds because he took steriods. you want to boo him because he's a jerk? go ahead. make signs saying, "you made my kid cry when you wouldn't sign an autograph, you big meanie." but before you start preparig your syringes and drawing your big * sign, think about how you'd feel if those flags in the outfield said 1988*, 1989*, 1990*, 2000*, 2002*, and 2003*.

bonds is only the messenger, and the message heavily implicates the a's.

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Comments

You make good points

mendelbob*

/sarcasm aside, I agree with you %100.

"The lineup! My God...the lineup!" ~ baseballgirl

by eamb on May 19, 2006 5:33 PM PDT reply actions

I disagree.

The diarist is missing one very large point:

Though there was suspicion of steroid use in some quarters during the A's time with Canseco, McGwire and Giambi, it was all guesswork. We knew they were big, some of us even suspected it was more than that, but any booing would have been guesswork.

The difference is that those people cheering Bonds right now KNOW he took steroids. It's no longer guesswork. He cheated us all, and yet they still cheer.

So I shall boo, and I shall boo loudly and proudly, and I shall say things that would make a sailor say "that's a bit much", just as I now do with Giambi and Sheffield, and just as I would do if McGwire, Sosa, Boone, Palmeiro, Anderson, Canseco and the late Caminiti had the audactiy to keep swinging the bat.

"I smell like a meadow." - Yuniesky Betancourt

by Ozzz on May 19, 2006 11:08 PM PDT up reply actions

fair enough

if you can honestly say that you would boo players who were largely responsible for our success from 88-90 and again in 2000-2001, then by all means, please boo bonds for taking steriods. the point of this diary is that bonds should be treated no worse than our own fallen angels. i am advocating consistency, and you claim to be showing it. i salute you.

i suspect that there are plenty of us that still have plenty of love for the bash brothers and giambi. this diary is aimed at those people who think these players deserve any better than bonds.

Zito: You ever think about the space time continuum?
Huddy: Uh... no.

by mendelbob on May 20, 2006 9:50 AM PDT up reply actions

Fair enough.

"I smell like a meadow." - Yuniesky Betancourt

by Ozzz on May 20, 2006 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions

what???

no one KNOWS anybody took anything...Bonds, love him or hate him, has been tried in the media, and thats it...Your post is the height of hypocrisy: its OK to guess about Canseco, Giambi, et al...but its KNOWN that Bonds took steroids so we can feel free to boo him for that "fact". How do we "know"this? Because a couple of boobs wrote a book? Its all implication for and by anyone in the game. Not to mention that Bonds doesnt deserve the "posterboy" tag any more than anyone else...its just society watching a celebrity fall fast and hard.

tdwclark

by tdwclark on May 21, 2006 4:24 AM PDT up reply actions

re: booing

I boo Giambi and would boo McGuire and Canseco too. Hell, I'd even boo Valarde if he came back. Am I still a hypocrite?

I miss Bill King :(

by gojohn10 on May 19, 2006 5:37 PM PDT reply actions

depends on why you're booing them

if it's only because they took steriods, then i think i'd say yes.

would you boo larussa?

Zito: You ever think about the space time continuum?
Huddy: Uh... no.

by mendelbob on May 19, 2006 5:52 PM PDT up reply actions

I liked Tony, so only if he took HGH too

I miss Bill King :(

by gojohn10 on May 19, 2006 10:29 PM PDT up reply actions

I might make a sign for tomorrow

"got juice?" with an asterix instead of dots... look for me on FOX

by greekpride08 @ Athletics Nation on May 19, 2006 5:44 PM PDT reply actions

So...

...should the 1989 steroid-fueled World Series Championship have an asterisk?

72, 73, 74, **89

by RevHalofan on May 19, 2006 5:48 PM PDT up reply actions

DO YOU HAVE TO ALWAYS FIND SOMETHING BAD

TO SAY? DO YA?

by greekpride08 @ Athletics Nation on May 19, 2006 5:56 PM PDT up reply actions

i don't know

i hope it never has to. but if bonds' record gets one, why shouldn't the championship that canseco helped win?

Zito: You ever think about the space time continuum?
Huddy: Uh... no.

by mendelbob on May 19, 2006 5:56 PM PDT up reply actions

if you string enough asterisks together ...

... would you have "grit"?

the bears were hungry and the monkey looked a lot like lunch @('.')@

by monkeyball on May 19, 2006 6:04 PM PDT up reply actions

dude

you are way out there.

say pots 10 times fast.
pots
pots
pots
pots
pots
pots
pots
pots
pots
pots

what do you do when you get to a green light?

Zito: You ever think about the space time continuum?
Huddy: Uh... no.

by mendelbob on May 19, 2006 6:10 PM PDT up reply actions

og?

the bears were hungry and the monkey looked a lot like lunch @('.')@

by monkeyball on May 19, 2006 6:11 PM PDT up reply actions

re: signature

<sick question> do you know where to find video of the bears eating the monkey?</sick question>

i find the story mesmerizing.

Zito: You ever think about the space time continuum?
Huddy: Uh... no.

by mendelbob on May 19, 2006 6:19 PM PDT up reply actions

Good one!

by sf drift king on May 19, 2006 6:16 PM PDT up reply actions

Sure.

Without doubt.

No hypocrisy here.

"I smell like a meadow." - Yuniesky Betancourt

by Ozzz on May 19, 2006 11:09 PM PDT up reply actions

if 2002 has one

go home, loser

tdwclark

by tdwclark on May 21, 2006 4:26 AM PDT up reply actions

Lawbreaker

It doesn't make it right that Bonds knowingly broke the law. It doesn't make one a hypocrite to not accept illegal behavor.

Jim

by jarforcefatherofforce on May 19, 2006 6:14 PM PDT reply actions

Sure it does, jarforce--

Who among us hasn't jaywalked?

"BOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!"
"But I was just jaywalking, and there weren't any cars coming anyway."
"Lawbreaker! BOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!"

I don't think I have a point.

by Nico on May 19, 2006 6:41 PM PDT up reply actions

i think you do.

i think we try to use legalities and personalities to differentiate bonds from the guys we love so that he'll take the hit and we can move forward, ignoring the fact that this whole mess started in our backyard.

Zito: You ever think about the space time continuum?
Huddy: Uh... no.

by mendelbob on May 19, 2006 6:47 PM PDT up reply actions

Let me know when jaywalking breaks a record.

"I smell like a meadow." - Yuniesky Betancourt

by Ozzz on May 19, 2006 11:10 PM PDT up reply actions

Though I think this is a lame excuse...

...steroid use was actually not against the law until 1991, which technically means that those 1988-1990 A's teams weren't breaking the law.

However, much as I loved the Bash Brothers, I can't honestly say that the legality of steroids pre-1991 makes me feel significantly better about Canseco and McGwire's (early) steroid use than I do about Bonds (and Canseco and McGwire's) later steroid use.

Pete Rose on interleague play: "It would take some of the lust off the All Star Game."

by GreenNGoldSooner on May 19, 2006 7:11 PM PDT up reply actions

Asterisk

If the Giants won the 2002 World Series, I would not be advocating an asterisk next to it in the record books, because that would be unfair to the other 24 guys on the team who could be clean.

However, when you're talking about INDIVIDUAL records, asterisks could be advocated. If Bonds gets an asterisk for 2001, McGwire should get one for 1998 too. No hypocrisy there.

I don't really want the asterisks, to tell you the truth, because I'll bet there are plenty of records that would need them and we just can't prove those guys were on the juice back then any more (think mid-90's single-season stats).

However, asterisk or not asterisk, I'm still booing Bonds. The same way I boo Giambi and Sheffield. The same way I booed Rafael Palmeiro and Bert Boone. And the same way I would boo Mark McGwire if I saw him at a ballpark again. Why? Because they all cheated and haven't come clean (except for maybe Giambi, who at least admitted it to a grand jury, something Bonds didn't do).

For the record, I am a bit embarassed by our '89 WS win, because of Canseco and McGwire. It's why I want more than ever for the A's to win a World Series again, hopefully this year.

Go A's, boo Bonds!

by OaktownTribesman on May 19, 2006 6:22 PM PDT reply actions

depends on if Bonds

caused the Giants to win.

I was at last nights game, and I booed him. Not really because he took steriods, but because he has no remorse about taking steriods.

I own too many darn shoes!

by californiagirl on May 20, 2006 9:08 AM PDT up reply actions

I think you're leaning off base on this one...

I think there's a general flaw in your logic. If a hypocrite is defined as "a person who puts on a false appearance of virtue or religion" then first you have to place the define your "virtue". In other words, you have to say, if I know a player probably used steriods he should be booed, you must do so all across the board. This doesn't mean that you're a hypocrite if you unwittingly cheered on a player who used steriods in the past when you didn't have prior knowledge of it.

Should we be embarrassed for our cheers? Should we be a little guarded over our celebration of our past champions? Well, yes, IF we believe that steriods are not virtuous.

So if someone said I would boo Bonds for using steriods but wouldn't boo Canseco if he were still playing now, then they're being a hypocrite, but saying I'd boo Bonds for being a user, but I didn't boo Canseco prior to having knowledge of him being a user isn't.

Basically you're not a hypocrite by reason of ignorance.

by DMOAS on May 19, 2006 6:23 PM PDT reply actions

very well said

i still hold very high esteem for the steriod-enhanced teams that we've had over the years. i know they were cheaters, it embarrasses me, but i still love them. i suspect that most of us feel the same way. given these feelings, i don't understand how we can boo someone else for cheating.

he probably committed purgery also. that's pretty nasty, certainly worse than what giambi did. but that's not baseball related. and that's generally not the focus of his hazing. we call him barroids, not purbery.

Zito: You ever think about the space time continuum?
Huddy: Uh... no.

by mendelbob on May 19, 2006 6:37 PM PDT up reply actions

it helps to a degree....

to understand that morality and legality aren't the same. I don't like that steriods entered the game, nor do I like that users prospered, even to the point of "potentially" giving us a championship. But while I have issues with it morally (not strong ones, mind you, just issues), I don't believe an asterik is needed for us, nor unfortunately do I think one is needed for Bonds.

Would I like one for him? Absolutely, but if none came I wouldn't argue it, but for my beliefs, it would be hypocritical.

Though, come to think of it, I'd argue bonds should have an asterik just for being a jerk and any time carl everett's name is put in a line up it should be written with an asterik for him not existing. I mean, would that be so wrong?

by DMOAS on May 19, 2006 7:01 PM PDT up reply actions

The real question

How can anyone that calls themselves an A's fan spell it McGuire?????????????????????????

I'll try not to swear.

by Tony on May 19, 2006 7:07 PM PDT reply actions

it's all good

i can't spell duke's last name or kirk's. and, while fluent in spanish, am totally confused by the accent on chavez. but i love me some a's baseball.

Zito: You ever think about the space time continuum?
Huddy: Uh... no.

by mendelbob on May 19, 2006 7:16 PM PDT up reply actions

Sorry for the spelling mistake

but if you want to take me on in a 1 on 1 A's trivia challenge, I'll take you down (as long as no spelling is involved)

I miss Bill King :(

by gojohn10 on May 19, 2006 10:27 PM PDT up reply actions

Not Ashamed of those Pennant and WS winning teams

Did Eckersley take 'roids? Dave Stewart? Mike Moore? Welch? Carney? Steinbach? Dave Henderson? Rickey (Mr. 1000 pushups and situps a day)? I'd say "no" about all of them.

Even if Canseco and McGwire were users, they were not the sole reasons that the A's were champions in the late 80's-early 90's. In fact, Canseco only played 65 games in 1989, so no one can say that he "carried" that WS team. No asterisks required.

If steroid use was as prevalent as assumed, you must acknowledge that the competition we faced also had a similar number of cheaters. When I look back on those teams, including the 2000's Giambi-lead teams, I see one or a few cheaters and a huge cast of teammmates who weren't muscle-bound super-freaks.

Conversely, Bonds was and is the sole attraction and dangerous player on the Giants. He is the franchsise, top to bottom, and without him the Giants would never had made the playoffs once in the last 10 years. In fact, they'd be God-awful.

So, think back fondly on those butt-kicking A's squads of yore, and boo Bonds lustily. I know I will!

by BlantonForCy06 on May 19, 2006 7:59 PM PDT reply actions

Let's be honest.

The A's went far on the backs of the Bash Brothers. And Giambi. Doesn't mean the work of the other guys is any less worthy, but it does make the difference between first place and second place in the division, which means it makes enough difference to matter.

That said, every SF Giants season of the last six years should get a similar asterisk - especially the one they got to the Series in.

"I smell like a meadow." - Yuniesky Betancourt

by Ozzz on May 19, 2006 11:13 PM PDT up reply actions

why are the giants' results more questionable

than those of the a's? does it really matter how many cheaters you have and how important those cheaters are? or is a cheating team a cheating team?

Zito: You ever think about the space time continuum?
Huddy: Uh... no.

by mendelbob on May 20, 2006 10:14 AM PDT up reply actions

Hey, asterisk them all.

I have no problem with that. Asterisk the whole damn era from '87 on, for all I care.

"I smell like a meadow." - Yuniesky Betancourt

by Ozzz on May 20, 2006 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions

i don't buy it

without the bash brothers, the a's of 88-90 are a totally different team. to love that team is to love the contribution of those two players (even if you don't like the players themselves). we are kidding ourselves if we don't acknoweldge that our last championship was brought to us by a steriods enhanced team.

btw, canseco was hurt a lot of 1989, but he scored 5 runs and drove in 3 in the WS. that's not carrying us, but it's an important contribution in a 4 game series.

Zito: You ever think about the space time continuum?
Huddy: Uh... no.

by mendelbob on May 20, 2006 10:04 AM PDT up reply actions

We would have swept 89 series without Canseco...

You specifically mentioned the 1989 team as one being worthy of an asterisk. Canseco barely contributed that year, and I still believe that the strength of that team were all the rest of non-'roidin' players.

Yes, 5 runs and and 3 RBI are worthy contributions, but we blasted the Giants by double digits in some of those WS games and not one of them was close...

Plus, who knows if Kevin Mitchell wasn't juicing?

All I'm saying is, I bristle when people start dismissing those awesome A's squads by attributing their success mainly to steroids. Just not true...

by BlantonForCy06 on May 20, 2006 8:38 PM PDT up reply actions

Semantics everybody!

In regards to the labels we put on steroid (or 'performance enhancing drug') users:

Steroids were added to the Controlled Substances Act in 1990 (save medical prescriptions).

Major League Baseball started testing in 2003 and implementing penalties in 2004.

Although non-prescribed users who bought, possessed and/or used in this country prior to 2003 were law-breakers, they were not 'cheating' according to the rules of MLB.

by southofcruiseamerica on May 19, 2006 8:23 PM PDT reply actions

Spirit of the law matters.

Bringing the game into disrepute is still against the rules, and breaking the law to get an advantage is nothing if not that.

"I smell like a meadow." - Yuniesky Betancourt

by Ozzz on May 19, 2006 11:14 PM PDT up reply actions

I don't care what people think

I'm still booing the arrogant, cheating mofo.

"Put a Milo on him." -Billy Beane

by kaweahkaweah on May 19, 2006 8:28 PM PDT reply actions

Who boos Bonds cuz of steroids??!

I boo him because he plays for the Giants -- I could care less what people do off the field.
I truly think once you're ... say ... 14 -- you should realize players could care less about you, and that you should only root for the laundry.
I'm not saying ballplayers are bad guys, but why would you "like" or "hate" someone personally? We don't even know these guys -- they just cash checks for playing baseball, and could really care less about the fans. That doesn't make them jerks, but it certainly means a fan shouldn't "care" about them, either.
You root for the ATHLETICS on the front -- I root for the A's if Canseco's in uniform, if Bond's were in green and gold, heck, if Osama played for us -- go 4-4 and do whatever you want in your spare time ....

VacaAsFan

by Vacafan on May 19, 2006 8:39 PM PDT reply actions

How is taking steroids to hit more dingers....

..what he does 'off the field'?

If such behavior isn't influencing very much what happens ON the field, I don't know what does.

"I smell like a meadow." - Yuniesky Betancourt

by Ozzz on May 19, 2006 11:15 PM PDT up reply actions

You're right -- it does

It just always amazes me how passionate people get regarding the individual . . . I don't know, maybe I'm old and grumpy, but I stopped "worrying" about the players a long time ago. Like I said, they really don't care about us as individuals, why should we care about them??
I was just stating why I boo Bonds -- the team you play for has everything to do with whether or not I boo you -- all the other stuff I really don't care about.
If Bonds were an Athletic, he'd still be a jerk and a cheater, but I'd root my ass off for him.
All I care about at the end of the day is "did my team win?" Who's nice, and who's not, and who's cute, and who's married to whom, etc. etc.? Meaningless.

VacaAsFan

by Vacafan on May 20, 2006 5:12 AM PDT up reply actions

great post

"If Bonds were an Athletic, he'd still be a jerk and a cheater, but I'd root my ass off for him"

me too. not hypocrital. booing approved. <krazy wand action> (sorry, no patience for the shift key)

Zito: You ever think about the space time continuum?
Huddy: Uh... no.

by mendelbob on May 20, 2006 9:23 AM PDT up reply actions

Then you and I are from different planets.

To me, the people who will cheer anything and anyone, just as long as their team wins, are the worst thing about professional sports.

For example:

Yankees fans who boast that their team can buy anyone.
Giants fans who bow to Bonds like he's God, though they know his feats were assisted by chemicals.
Baltimore Ravens fans who cheers Ray Lewis, the day after he refused to help police put a murderer in jail.
Angels fans who think Mike Scioscia, detestable human being, is fantastic because he whines for their team.

If you want to be one of those "I don't care how I win, as long as I win" guys, more power to you.

But I want my A's to win the RIGHT way. Not the cheap way.

"I smell like a meadow." - Yuniesky Betancourt

by Ozzz on May 20, 2006 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions

I care less about the steroid use...

...than the lying. I wish that all of them would sack up, admit they used steroids, say it was dumb, and apologize.

"I'm a lexicon devil with a battered brain."--Darby Crash

by lexdevil on May 19, 2006 8:57 PM PDT reply actions

Let's just wipe out the record books

From 1990 or so on. The fact of the matter is that statistically speaking, it's likely that every team in MLB had a cheat or two on its roster during that time. Why bother singling out specific teams?

"The first night, we were right there," Bradley said. "All we needed was a couple of touchdowns, and we would have had them."

by jeepers on May 20, 2006 7:39 AM PDT reply actions

We still got one thing over the Giants

At least we were able to win a world series with our steroid guys.

"74Oakland A's - Best Team Ever" - Homer Simpson

by secret ASian man on May 20, 2006 9:17 AM PDT up reply actions

that's the spirit!

Zito: You ever think about the space time continuum?
Huddy: Uh... no.

by mendelbob on May 20, 2006 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions

LOL!!!!

My favorite comment of the day.

"This must be heaven," he says.
"No. It's Oakland."

by Kyli on May 20, 2006 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions

i would love to see

a sign at a game that said something about this. i think it would be most appropriate at pay phone park when we visit. something like, "at least when our guys were juiced we won. 1989 world champs"

i think it would people think, laugh, and cringe all at the same time. and it would really piss giants fans off.

Zito: You ever think about the space time continuum?
Huddy: Uh... no.

by mendelbob on May 20, 2006 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions

I couldn't agree more

this is a sweeping issue that implicates all of mlb (with the bay area being an extra hot spot). given the wide spread guilt, it's unfair to scapegoat bonds. given the role of the a's in this mess, it seems especially unfair for us to scapegoat him.

Zito: You ever think about the space time continuum?
Huddy: Uh... no.

by mendelbob on May 20, 2006 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions

Couldn't agree more...

on this issue of not booing Bonds because he used roids. Heck, I wonder how many pitchers using steroids he has hitten a homerun off... The talent he has cannot be tainted by the steriod crap, 400/400. Anyways, Bonds has always been booed, but it's because he's always been a complete a-hole. For haters, the steriod thing is just icing on the cake.

by KMoAsFan on May 20, 2006 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions

i'm a believer

that if someone's a cheater that not all his accomplishments are tainted, but all his character is. i know that he has great talent, and accomplished great things while he was clean. but as a matter of fact, he's a cheater, that's what he is - and then the accomplishments are that of one who is a cheater. i have great respect of what he accomplished, and i give him his due for that; but no matter what, he's still a cheater.

"Apparently there's a rule that you have to be old enough to drive yourself to the induction ceremony. So obviously that's not gonna work."

by F171615 on May 20, 2006 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions

Boo

I guess booing a steroid user for hitting a homrun somwhat depends on if he hits one for you or against you. Bonds is loved in San Francisco and despised elsewhere. But there is more to it. Contrast Bonds and Giambi. You don't see the negative reaction against Giambi that you do Bonds. Why? It's because Giambi admitted it, said he was sorry, and was forgiven. It is our nature to give someone like this a second chance. Bonds, on the other hand, denies steriod use, and appearently lied to a grand jury. No second chance there. Even Canseco has a more favorable reaction. He did fess up - though for economic reasons.

Jim

by jarforcefatherofforce on May 20, 2006 12:18 PM PDT up reply actions

i hate statements like this

all we can say is that we don't know who was using steroids during this time. we have what some people think saying some percentage of players were using, but that can't be taken as fact at all. to assume that every team had a cheater on it is as ridicules as stating only two teams had cheaters on it. to blindly and ignorantly state something so sweeping is terrible for all those who are wrongly swept in with your accusations simply b/c of the time they played ball. i'm sure there were many great accomplishments by clean players and teams during this time that whould honestly be recognized.

"Apparently there's a rule that you have to be old enough to drive yourself to the induction ceremony. So obviously that's not gonna work."

by F171615 on May 20, 2006 10:49 AM PDT up reply actions

Here's what we know:

When steroid testing was started (with no names made public, and no penalties for those found using), the 5% or less that the league expected to find was beaten by a factor of a LOT.

That's AFTER steroid testing came in. so how many used before that? 50%? 80% At LEAST the stars were using, most assuredly all record-breakers, in my mind.

Then when penalties came into play, they STILL found positive results! Then when the federal government started paying attention, they STILL found positive results!

Heck, the A's have a minor league catcher, David Castillo, who has tested positive THREE TIMES (what the heck is this guy still doing in our system?).

So yeah, we know it was rampant, and I believe we can make all the sweeping statements we want. MLB refused to keep its house in order, and the pressure from the players (you know, those innocent ones who you seek to protect) were the main reason for that.

"I smell like a meadow." - Yuniesky Betancourt

by Ozzz on May 20, 2006 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions

Bonds is a cheater.

We know that it's obvious. But, with all the scrutinity of the baseball world has he ever been officially suspended or charged with using steriods? NO. So why is it fair to chastize Bonds over roids and not other guys when theres been no "official" charges. It's nieve to not suggest other guys who have some interesting stats and appearances in this same time period. Look at just a few guys who were on the A's in 99-00, Ben Grieve (28HRs), Jon Jaha(35HRs), Matt Stairs(38Hrs), Jason Giambi(43HRs). Where are they now? It just seems like a lot of guys who have played on the A's had their best seasons when they played along side Mr. Giambi, the team leader, and "possible" steroid user.

Boo Bonds for being a complete jerk, and star player for a hated rival. Not for steriods.

by KMoAsFan on May 20, 2006 11:25 AM PDT reply actions

exactly.

Zito: You ever think about the space time continuum?
Huddy: Uh... no.

by mendelbob on May 20, 2006 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions

Here's why Bonds hasn't been suspended:

First year of steroid testing featured no players publicly named positive results.

Second year of steroid testing featured Bonds getting a mysterious knee injury and sitting out the season.

Third year of steroid testing, with public naming of offenders and actual penalties for those caught? He can't hit a homerun to save himself.

You do the math.

Oh yeah, there's also that other little thing of Bonds telling the Grand Jury he used the Cream and the Clear. I think admission of guilt will be proof enough for most of us that he took steroids.

"I smell like a meadow." - Yuniesky Betancourt

by Ozzz on May 20, 2006 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions

Theres no doubt in my mind he used steroids.

What I'm saying is everyone seems to be a genius detective when it comes to Bonds using steriods and they look at all the factors, exactly like things that you just mentioned that point to him using them. But when it comes to other guys, everyone is so quick to turn a blind eye, give them the benefit of the doubt, or look for excuses that they should be innocent. Look at Clemens, he's sat out half the year, where are your accusations on him?

by KMoAsFan on May 20, 2006 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions

In my head.

Look, I have suspicions about Cal Ripken, truth be told, but in the absence of anything more than suspicion, I'm not about to make too many broad, vocal, public statement accusing a guy of a crime.

Bonds I know cheated. Sheffield, sure. Boone, no doubt. But there's gray area the further down the list you go.

"I smell like a meadow." - Yuniesky Betancourt

by Ozzz on May 20, 2006 10:06 PM PDT up reply actions

Here is a Giambi Question

Everone keeps saying they Boo Giambi just like they Boo Bonds.

I always Booed Giambi becuase he bailed on our team and went to play for the hated Yankees.

If everything else was the exact same, BUT Giambi was still on the A's would you boo him??

I think not. I think we would all say something to rationalize it like "at least he apologized", "at least he didn't lie to the grand jury", and other crap like that. We would be behind Giambi and we would be cheering for him! At least I would be.

But, since he is a Yankee I BOO!

As far as Bonds, I "hate" him because he is a giant, and I hate the Giants.

I always hated Jerry Rice and booed him (he didn't do steroids), then he became a Raider and I rooted for him. But, the moment he was gone I went back to hating him!

by Bigtoe on May 20, 2006 12:50 PM PDT reply actions

That makes you fickle.

Me? I would have booed Giambi even if he'd stayed in Oakland green.

I want to win, I don't want to cheat to win.

"I smell like a meadow." - Yuniesky Betancourt

by Ozzz on May 20, 2006 10:07 PM PDT up reply actions

I wouldn't have booed...

('cause I don't)... but I sure as hell would have stopped cheering.

"If we wanted you to be happy, we'd authorize you to be happy and we'd issue happiness to you." ~~ my boss

by Poppy on May 20, 2006 11:05 PM PDT up reply actions

Bonds was neither the first nor the only

ballplayer to use steroids, HGH or whatever else to decrease his healing time from training and/or enhance his performance. Those substances have been rampant in MLB for at least 20 years, and were certainly winked at by MLB because the performances made money. Other professional athletes in a wide variety of sports have done exactly the same -- whether they were convinced that they couldn't compete without it, or they were willing to do anything for the big fame and the big bucks, or because it became accepted among their peers as common practice. It is a horrible practice, endangers the health of the athletes, sets an awful example for youth, and compromises the sports.

There is plenty of blame to go around. But it certainly should not rest solely on one ballplayer named Bonds.

by OaklandSi on May 21, 2006 9:47 AM PDT reply actions