The true value of Jason Kendall.

so you're saying

he's our erstad?

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Apr 10, 2006 7:50 PM PDT reply actions

Not unless Erstad is calling pitches.

Or blocking plays at the plate with his head.

Don't you miss the days of martinis and greenies?

by Ozzz on Apr 10, 2006 9:01 PM PDT up reply actions

Amen, Brother.

Now THIS is Billy Ball

by Masaryk on Apr 10, 2006 9:09 PM PDT up reply actions

Erstad is a great defender

Kendal is a fine player right now, but the A's could better spend most of the money elsewhere.

by brenarlo on Apr 11, 2006 12:47 PM PDT up reply actions

Not really worth the money...

But relative to the Rhodes / Redman contracts it is worth it.

We do get $5 Mill from the pirates next year at least

"ET TU, DAMON?" 4/4

by FireballerHARDEN on Apr 10, 2006 7:56 PM PDT reply actions

I would much rather have Kendall than Rhodes/Redman.....that was the trade plus some moving of monies.....
STOP PUTTING INCORRECT "VALUES" on Kendall....Jesus, we have been having these posts for over a year now.....

Now THIS is Billy Ball

by Masaryk on Apr 10, 2006 9:07 PM PDT up reply actions

I love Kendall

And I'm glad he's on our team.

But that doesn't mean he's worth $7 mil. There are plenty of catchers around the league who can call a good game, and hit .270 who make a lot less than $7 mil.

I like Zito, too, but he won't be worth what he'll command on the market next year.

"Doing the little things" may make a guy more likeable (see: Kendall, Jason; face first dive at Tex), but it's the big things that really determine their monetary value.

by booya on Apr 10, 2006 8:15 PM PDT reply actions

From an Economic standpoint

"he won't be worth what he'll command on the market...". I don't know if it is just me but from an economic stand point an item is worth what people are willing to pay for it, that is the whole point of a market. I have heard this type of statement quite a bit so don't think that I'm just picking on you booya, a better statement would be the A's can find a replacement for (insert name of player) for far less money ala Haren for Mulder.

by CyberFT on Apr 10, 2006 8:31 PM PDT up reply actions

Well, to be fair...

..just because someone might pay $98m for AJ Burnett doesn't make AJ Burnett worth $98m.

Worth it to someone does not really equate to real worth.

Don't you miss the days of martinis and greenies?

by Ozzz on Apr 10, 2006 9:03 PM PDT up reply actions

The point about economics

would be more correct in a fully liquid market, where you have a large set to choose from, and didn't have the risky multi year contracts.

Also, worth is what value he brings to the team, wheras price is what $$ is required to requisition his services. There is no guarentee that worth > price. Even in day to day goods.

by MobiusKlein on Apr 10, 2006 11:11 PM PDT up reply actions

Great analysis, booya

Kendall is much easier to appreciate at the bottom of the order, where his pitch calling is just as good, but his offensive limitations (low power, high GIDPs) are more obscured.

He is an asset to the team, but an expensive one whose offensive track record has not been evidenced in Oakland.

by Nico on Apr 10, 2006 10:33 PM PDT up reply actions

Maybe not Beane's worst move ever...

but, close...

From Ken Rosenthal's MLB's Most Overpaid and Underpaid Players today:

Kendall, who turns 32 in June, posted the lowest on-base/slugging percentage (OPS) of any American League player last season and threw out the lowest percentage of base stealers in the AL as well.

And, to make the point even more obvious than it is, I give you... Ramon Hernandez 2006:

AVG OBP SLG OPS
.688 .700 .813 1.513

Is there an A's fan out there who would take Jason's "intangibles" over Ramon's bat?

by FoolshGame22 on Apr 10, 2006 11:35 PM PDT up reply actions

But if you keep Ramon

then you have to take back T-Long in place of Kotsay too.

by green star oakland on Apr 10, 2006 11:38 PM PDT up reply actions

Maybe, maybe not...

Pads were growing weary of Kotsay's bad back. We probably coulda dumped Long on them with a couple mid-level prospects and they would have called it even.

by FoolshGame22 on Apr 10, 2006 11:48 PM PDT up reply actions

We could have ...

but, no, we chose to give them more than they really wanted for Kotsay ...

yep, I'm sure that's accurate.

Check out the future Mrs. Devo's campaign ...

by devo on Apr 11, 2006 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions

Kendall vs. Hernandez

I would take Kendall's ability to play every day over Ramon's injury record: he played in 210 games the last two years vs 297 for Kendall. A big bat sitting on the DL doesn't win a lot of games.

And I couldn't care less how Ramon has done over the first seven games of the season. Look at career numbers: Ramon has a .747 OPS, Kendall .788. I grant that's a bit misleading because Kendall seem to have started Elderly Catcher Decline Syndrome. But on the other hand Hernandez is only two years younger.

For the same salary, would I rather have RH or JK? That's actually a tough call for me right now. I'm not sure. At their actual salaries, of course RH would be a better deal.

by matthias on Apr 11, 2006 10:00 AM PDT up reply actions

297 vs. 210

You cite Kendall's additional playing time as if it were a good thing. I wish Kendall's numbers had been 210. That would have meant Melhuse would have played 87 more games last year and we would have gotten some production out of the catcher position.

And, at their actual salaries (which is what the diary is about, right?), it ain't even a close call between Ramon and Kendall.

by FoolshGame22 on Apr 11, 2006 10:13 AM PDT up reply actions

Ummmmm

Seems to me Ramon holds the A's record for most starts by a catcher in a season. So if you you wanna call Kendall's hitting last season an anomally, then I submit Ramon's is an anomally as well.

"OH MY GOD!, You Cloned Kennedy, you BASTARDS!" (Anonymous ANer on seeing Brad Halsey)

by 510inDenver on Apr 11, 2006 12:32 PM PDT up reply actions

Actually Kendall broke that record last year

by breedingewoks on Apr 11, 2006 1:20 PM PDT up reply actions

Whatever is up with Kendall,

he's just looking ugly at the plate. He's not looking like the guy he was in Pittsburg, I doubt we'll ever see him put up those kind of numbers in Oakland. I don't think he'll hit .300 again in his career. I would loveloveLOVE to be wrong, but for whatever reason, he rolled everything into a DP last season and seems to suddenly lack the ability to lift a pitch over the infield consistantly.

Regardless of Ramon and Kendall's numbers this season, looking at last year is enough for me to be horrified by Kendall. I greatly prefer Kendall as a catcher, but as a hitter? Come on. And as good as a defensive catcher is, he DOES have to bat sometimes. At this point, I'd rather see Haren at the plate than him.

And honestly, I trust Melhuse to fill in, even for a couple weeks, while another guy is on the DL. It's not ideal, but Adam isn't a bad backup.

Plus, quite frankly, the power that Ramon offers is tempting. Those 21 HRs in 2003 were pretty sweet, and the fact that he hit 12 in 99 games with San Diego while playing injured part of the time and at PetCo?

Ramon's been solid since having that rockbottom '02, he's hit over .270 for those past year. The OBP is pretty ugly except that freakish first year in SD, and the injuries aren't pretty (though I seriously question whether one of them would have happened if he'd been with Oakland -- I assume the wrist would, but lord knows the plate-blocking incident wouldn't have. Bastard). But his offensive performance has been solid and it looks like the Orioles got him for the right price.

As amazing as Kendall's freakish career OPS is, watching those hits miss infield holes makes me want to bash my head into a wall repeatedly because he SHOULD be better than he is right now.

"This must be heaven," he says.
"No. It's Oakland."

by Kyli on Apr 11, 2006 1:14 PM PDT up reply actions

Kendall used to be good for around 10-15 Home runs

a year until he got injured sometime in the 90's (I have a friend in Pittsburgh who told me this). I researched the injury last night. Turns out he was trying to run out a bunt to break up a no hitter. He hit the base at a bad angle and his tibia broke the skin and was exposed about 4 or 5 inches. Went into shock while he was on the field. I cringed when I read this. His batting average at the time this happened: 323

by breedingewoks on Apr 11, 2006 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions

They showed it over and over on the TV

it was horrific

by booya on Apr 11, 2006 4:35 PM PDT up reply actions

Let's not forget..

..Kendall hit .273 last season. It's really not that short a jump to .300.

Granted, he's not looking likely to make that jump, but who would have picked Chris Shelton to be the hottest hitter in baseball this season? Weirder things have happened.

Don't you miss the days of martinis and greenies?

by Ozzz on Apr 11, 2006 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions

Who would have picked Shelton?

ohad, apparently. <hates fantasy baseball>

Next time you see Kendall hit a ball 273 feet, tell me it's not a big jump to 300.

by Nico on Apr 11, 2006 4:30 PM PDT up reply actions

Feet are very different to BA points.

Next time you see Kendall hit a ball 273 centimeters, tell me it it's a big jump to 300.

Don't you miss the days of martinis and greenies?

by Ozzz on Apr 11, 2006 7:01 PM PDT up reply actions

where is this $7 million figure

coming from?

He's making $11 million this year -- plus the A's are sending an additional $1 million to the Pirates this year.

by OaklandSi on Apr 11, 2006 2:36 AM PDT up reply actions

imaginary bookkeeping

Some people like to calculate the "cost" of a player's salary by subtracting out the salaries of the asset(s) for whom the player was traded. Kendall - (Rhodes + Redman) = $7M.

Personally, I think this approach is a load of malarkey -- especially because you only ever see it done with players such as Kendall: overpaid underperformers. We're paying him what we're paying him.

And where did the "$5M" figure for '07 come from? I could have sworn the Pirates were only paying $1M-$2M of Kendall's '07 salary (I could well be wrong).

Bring back the ass! -- BleacherDave @('.')@

by monkeyball on Apr 11, 2006 9:57 AM PDT up reply actions

damn skippy monkeyboy

11 million is 11 million. I'm friggin' getting tired of all these kendall apologists rationalizing kendall's existence on this team by throwing in redman and rhodes. with that logic two (or three) wrongs make a right. bullshit i say.

kendall does have a hot wife though.

"Bring Watson Back to Oakland in '06"-The Committee is accepting new members. 04/06/06 vs Portland; AB-3, H-1, HR-1, RBI-2

by bigelephant on Apr 11, 2006 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions

13-Million

Kendall is making 13-Million next season, and Pittsburgh is sending 5-Million to help cover the expense.

http://www.ucscfootball.com/salaries.html (site is updated w/ current salaries)

So, 8-Million for Jason Kendall in 2007. It sucks that none of our drafted catchers have risen to the occasion over the last 3-4 years (Baker, Brown, Suzuki, Powell) - So, 8-Millon for a veteran pitch caller...not bad.

June 19th - June 21st, 2006 ** Oakland Athletics @ Colorado Rockies ** Lets Go Oak-Land!

by Colorado Fan on Apr 11, 2006 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions

thanks for the correction!

Hopefully, Kendall hits in the .285 range this year, with an OBP of .375+, and Beane can move him in the offseason (maybe package him with Loaiza?).

Note that I'm (a) a converted Kendall fan (though he is overpaid) and (b) not a Loaiza H8r (I think Beane signed him intending to move him winter '06 or '07).

Bring back the ass! -- BleacherDave @('.')@

by monkeyball on Apr 11, 2006 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions

11 miil or 13 mill,

what's a couple mill to a small market team?

It just goes to show when you make a mistake (redman/rhodes) you can end up paying for it for years. Unfortunately Billy got himself into a problem and now he is forced to trade bad contracts for bad contract(s). nature of the business i suppose.

"Bring Watson Back to Oakland in '06"-The Committee is accepting new members. 04/06/06 vs Portland; AB-3, H-1, HR-1, RBI-2

by bigelephant on Apr 11, 2006 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions

good lord, kendall is the 39th

highest paid player in MLB!

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5480226

"Bring Watson Back to Oakland in '06"-The Committee is accepting new members. 04/06/06 vs Portland; AB-3, H-1, HR-1, RBI-2

by bigelephant on Apr 11, 2006 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions

Kendall is GIDP-waiting-to-happen

JK's just so prone to groundouts and weak infield outs. Not a gamer but an A's rally and/or run-killer.

by richharden40 on Apr 10, 2006 8:24 PM PDT reply actions

Honestly?

I'm not sure I totally buy that. Yes, working with a staff is an extraordinarily valuable thing -- particular a staff like this, filled with young pitchers. Having a guy like Kendall around, a hard-nosed pitcher that can really call a game and handle his staff is a good thing.

But is it worth the money? That's a whole 'nother question. He's making BANK, and I seriously question whether these skills are worth what he's making given his lack of production at the plate. It seems disrepectful to the pitchers that were up there to push the credit on to Kendall. I recall Zito and Harden throwing quite well before he came to town.

Time to go into crappy examples. Woo.

It seems like touting a catcher as being 'good with pitchers' is a nice way of brushing off his deficiencies, in many cases. That was what they claimed when Damian Miller came to town, that he could work with a staff -- and then it later got out that he was constantly in trouble for breaking with the A's gameplan.

If your statement is true, we made one HELL of a mistake giving Ramon Hernandez up -- he presided over the young, spunky '02 rotation, after all, and a pitching staff that at one point gave up 1 run over a span of 29 innings, along with pitching back-to-back shutouts on 5 separate occasions. Not to mention the pitching staffs early in his time as Oakland's catcher -- the Big 3 in 2001? Holy crap, man. And Ramon's only making $4.5 million this season, plus he hits home runs (not that this is saying I want Ramon back -- I do adore the guy, but this is me just giving a relative value).

He was always touted as being more about game-calling and working with pitchers than his offense, that was how his 2002 was explained. Hell, that was the explanation given for why A's players voted him on to the All-Star team.

Yet while he was here and especially afterwards, people were saying that he wasn't that good working with the staff, that he'd a decent number of pitches dictated from the bench. And people (like me) on the other side of the fence were also saying that the staff would suffer greatly without him because he worked well with the pitchers, and that's why we needed to hold on to him.

Suffice to say, our pitchers have pitched damn well since then. Losing Peterson, losing catchers, we might as well just accept that our pitchers are pretty damn good.

Is a good catcher vital to a good game? Hell yes. Is Kendall the only good catcher around? No.

Now, whether we had a shot to fill his position with anyone else is an entirely different question. And in a way, I feel his paycheck is worth it just get have gotten rid of Rhodes and Redman -- he's a hell of a lot better for this club.

But believing that he's absolutely worth the cash based entirely on his work with the pitchers and his baserunning and being a "gamer"? I'm not sure I can believe that. I believe it's a good thing, and I believe he's good for the team, but I really don't think I believe he's $7 million worth of good.

"This must be heaven," he says.
"No. It's Oakland."

by Kyli on Apr 10, 2006 8:27 PM PDT reply actions

Losing Peterson

Zito has not been as consistent as he was under Peterson. I think Rick had a way of focusing Barry that Curt Young simply does not have. Which isn't to demean Young in the slightest, I think he's a good pitching coach, it's just that Rick and Barry seemed to naturally click.

Why yes. I am a ray of warm and fuzzy sunshine.

by grover on Apr 10, 2006 8:35 PM PDT up reply actions

would I rather have Kendall

than Redman and Rhodes? Yes.

Do I think that was the only way that Beane could have gotten rid of two lefty pitchers and their contracts? No.

But Beane had wanted Kendall for some time... and we have seen that sooner or later he gets most of the players he covets.

by OaklandSi on Apr 11, 2006 2:38 AM PDT up reply actions

As soon as you put the price tag

to Kendall's performance, the answer is "No".

His is a bad contract and the A's are paying too much for too little.

Why yes. I am a ray of warm and fuzzy sunshine.

by grover on Apr 10, 2006 8:31 PM PDT reply actions

hey guys

by greekpride08 @ Athletics Nation on Apr 10, 2006 8:36 PM PDT reply actions

Wow...

You learned HTML, but you still haven't discovered the reply function.

"It was an incredible catch, but I didn't really like his footwork." - Ken Macha

by secret ASian man on Apr 10, 2006 10:15 PM PDT up reply actions

Its not accepting the intangables...

its accepting that he sucks. To harp on about someone who everyone KNOWS sucks, and accepts that he sucks, is not our thing. Our whipping boy has to be the guy who wasn't supposed to suck, but still does, or comes in for a specific role that anyone with a left hand could do, IE Rincon, Kennedy or now Loaiza.

by Zonis on Apr 10, 2006 9:11 PM PDT reply actions

So if Loaiza pitches a shutout next time up...

...then we switch back to Kendall?

Don't you miss the days of martinis and greenies?

by Ozzz on Apr 10, 2006 9:23 PM PDT up reply actions

We go back to the Hazy Shades of Ginter

That, or Payton's Dilemma

by Zonis on Apr 10, 2006 10:28 PM PDT up reply actions

You're forgetting our favorite whipping boy

One senor Macha

by booya on Apr 10, 2006 11:23 PM PDT up reply actions

very well put

It's a beautiful day for baseball.

by As Man on Apr 11, 2006 8:22 PM PDT up reply actions

Catcher Position, aka, Pitch Caller

JK's Current OBP = .409 (I'll take that)

I can't think of a better pitch caller than Jason Kendall. Over his career, he has EARNED the right to make 10-Million per year. And until there's another alternative at the catcher position in the A's organization, we better keep Kendall around. It's not like other organizations are shopping around stud hitting catchers in the mold of Joe Mauer. They just aren't out there.

10-Million or 1-Million, the only catcher I would rather have over JK for the next two years would be Jason Varitek. Beyond 2007, hopefully Kurt Suzuki and/or Landon Powell will be ready, but I wouldn't be holding your breath for either to make the leap.

BTW: If Dan Wilson is worth 2 Retirement Ceremonies, Jason Kendall is worth 4 Retirement Ceremonies.

June 19th - June 21st, 2006 ** Oakland Athletics @ Colorado Rockies ** Lets Go Oak-Land!

by Colorado Fan on Apr 10, 2006 9:27 PM PDT reply actions

Victor Martinez?

You wouldn't rather have VMart than Jason kendall? Oy...

by SeanR on Apr 10, 2006 10:00 PM PDT up reply actions

Victor Martinez

Yes he mashes (when not in massive slumps or slow starts)...but, would he have the respect of Zito, Harden, Blanton, Haren, Street, and others??? I doubt he would have the same impact that JK has behind the dish. Varitek...maybe.

Bottom Line: As long as Kendall isn't killing us at the plate (more hit-n-runs when JK's at the plate should definitley help), he demands the respect of our pitching staff.

June 19th - June 21st, 2006 ** Oakland Athletics @ Colorado Rockies ** Lets Go Oak-Land!

by Colorado Fan on Apr 11, 2006 9:54 AM PDT up reply actions

In case another catcher does come along

Jason Kendall's career stats says in 2001 he started 10 games in RF and 18 in LF. Had a .900 fielding% in RF and a .909 fielding% in LF

by breedingewoks on Apr 11, 2006 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions

I remember that!

Not a well received experiment, as I recall.

Don't you miss the days of martinis and greenies?

by Ozzz on Apr 11, 2006 7:03 PM PDT up reply actions

Don't forget the tangibles...

Like .409 OBP. Yeah it is small sample size, but you did mention the batting average this season, so I get to mention OBP.

Yeah, you don't pay some one $11 million, but it is better than paing Rhodes and Redman that money.

by Donner on Apr 10, 2006 9:39 PM PDT reply actions

Evidence

Given the evidence you presented couldn't I suggest that Eric Chavez' enchanted jock strap is what actually caused these pitching performances, and I would be just as right?

I'm willing to believe that a catcher might contribute an out, maybe even two a a game, but if your going to suggest that Kendall actually caused these performances you're going to need to bring some evidence.

by regfairfield on Apr 10, 2006 9:52 PM PDT reply actions

Evidence

It's kind of anecdotal but here's one sample:

In 2004, the A's featuring Hudson, Mulder, Zito and Harden had a certain journeyman catcher calling the pitches. He was apparently so bad that Mychael Urban had to scrap his planned chapter on The Catcher because the pitchers wouldn't let him print what they had to say. The team ERA was 4.17 for the year (and Aces was kind of dull).

In 2005, the A's having replaced two of the best starters in the game with a rookie (Blanton) and a third year player who'd never had a full time starting job (Haren) had a catcher reputed to be one of the best game callers around, praised by all his pitchers. The team ERA for the year was 3.69.

by matthias on Apr 10, 2006 10:01 PM PDT up reply actions

Wonderfully done.

He said "Good day, sir!"

Don't you miss the days of martinis and greenies?

by Ozzz on Apr 11, 2006 12:47 AM PDT up reply actions

Evidence, redux

Mulder is one of the best starters in the game? He basically single handedly cost the A's the playoffs in 2004. Before the season started, I figured that Haren would be better than Mulder. Plus, his translated ERA was worse in 2005 than it was in 2004. There are two conclusions to draw from this:

Yadier Molina is a really bad catcher.
Mark Mulder isn't that great.

Not only that, there is also the fact that Mark Redman wasn't on the team anymore, and he was replaced by Kirk Saarloos, the luckiest man in the world. Also, the improved defense in 2005 certainly helped out contact pitchers Zito and Blanton.

Plus consider that some of the A's pitchers, like Juan Cruz, got worse when they went to the A's. Do you blame Kendall for that?

Can you give Kendall some credit? Sure. But to say that he is the reason the pitching staff was so successful without any evidence is really reaching.

by regfairfield on Apr 11, 2006 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions

Careful ...

I don't mind your opinion that my book was dull, but you're playing a little loose with your facts regarding Damien Miller. Only one of my subjects had a problem with him, and the main reason the idea of dedicating an entire chapter to Miller was scrapped is that there just wasn't enough "there" there.

by MychaelUrban on Apr 11, 2006 12:52 PM PDT up reply actions

Only sissies

let facts get in their way. Hey, Mychael, any views to share on the "Crosby hitting #3 issue"--your opinion and/or insight on the A's reasoning as to why it's the best option with the current roster? Just curious.

If you don't reply, I'll call your book dull and see if that motivates you. :-}

by Nico on Apr 11, 2006 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions

no freebees nico

Send him a email for his "Mailbag". Jeesh, the man comes to AN for a little RR and head slapping and you put him to work!

"Bring Watson Back to Oakland in '06"-The Committee is accepting new members. 04/09/06: G-5, Avg-.474, AB-19, H-9, HR-3, RBI-11

by bigelephant on Apr 11, 2006 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions

OBP, OBP, and OBP. And don't foget OBP.

All I or any sane A's fan (if there is such a thing) ever wanted out of Kendall was a .400 OBP and good pitch calling. Last year we got half of that. If we get both this year I will be very, very happy, and Kendall will have his leadoff spot back in few weeks.

by matthias on Apr 10, 2006 9:53 PM PDT reply actions

Kendall - GIDP

No, he's good just overpaid.

by kvn on Apr 10, 2006 10:02 PM PDT reply actions

Please don't try to justify his contract

I'm ok with defending Kendall for the intangibles he brings to the table, but please don't try to justify his contract. Beane did what he could to minize the mistakes he made with Redman and Rhodes, that's about it.

by znk916 on Apr 10, 2006 10:18 PM PDT reply actions

If that's the case...

..why is Beane not shopping him?

Don't you miss the days of martinis and greenies?

by Ozzz on Apr 11, 2006 12:48 AM PDT up reply actions

because he couldn't get value for him

You're kidding, right, Oz? What GM in his right mind would take on Kendall's salary after his '05 performance?

There's also the fact that we don't have a Beane-satisfying successor in place yet (myself, I'd be content with Melhuse starting for most of the year with a Zaun/Myers type backing up).

Bring back the ass! -- BleacherDave @('.')@

by monkeyball on Apr 11, 2006 10:01 AM PDT up reply actions

You're kidding right?

How much is AJ Burnett making this year? There's always someone, somewhere, with more dollars than sense, who could do with an extra, experienced, 'grit-heavy' catcher in the battery.

Don't you miss the days of martinis and greenies?

by Ozzz on Apr 11, 2006 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions

pitchers vs catchers

Starting pitching is almost always overvalued. Catching -- at least, the kind of catching Kendall does -- rarely is (Matheny's contract with the Giants aside: Kendall's not old enough to play for Sabes, and Matheny has a golden defensive rep).

OK, let's parse this out:

First requirement: dumb-as-nails GM
Second requirement: high-revenue team willing to expand payroll
Third requirement: lack of a front-line catcher, tradeable front-line catcher, or cheap-enough-to-DFA front-line catcher
Fourth requirement: bad contract on roster to trade for Kendall
Fifth requirement: front-line catcher or catching prospect to send in return, and/or MLB-ready SP/OF prospects

I don't see a fit. Do you?

Bring back the ass! -- BleacherDave @('.')@

by monkeyball on Apr 11, 2006 12:39 PM PDT up reply actions

Don't forget to add in

Kendall's blanket NTC. Meaning someone's going to have to fork over even more cash (or an extension) before he'll move on to another team.

Why yes. I am a ray of warm and fuzzy sunshine.

by grover on Apr 11, 2006 2:25 PM PDT up reply actions

Make it a 3-way trade..

..and the options are endless.

Of course, we might have to pick up a bigger contract on whoever is coming this way, but that might be fun to try once in a while.

Don't you miss the days of martinis and greenies?

by Ozzz on Apr 11, 2006 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions

true, true ...

The other alternative is to package him with a more desirable player, a la my pet blockbuster ARod-to-the-A's deal ...

I've heard that I attempted to eat a garden snail when I was about 3. -- Poppy @('.')@

by monkeyball on Apr 11, 2006 4:49 PM PDT up reply actions

A-Rod to the A's?

But where could we fit him?

Don't you miss the days of martinis and greenies?

by Ozzz on Apr 11, 2006 7:04 PM PDT up reply actions

Utility infielder

He can play SS, 3rd and I'd bet he can backup at 1st, too.

Just hope Antonio Perez has some options left.

by booya on Apr 12, 2006 5:26 PM PDT up reply actions

Kendall the player has value, sure...

But his contract makes it extremely difficult to deal him. The Pirates wanted to deal him for years but couldn't find any takers until Beane offered to trade our mistakes for theirs.

by znk916 on Apr 11, 2006 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions

Contract

I don't need to defend his contract with the A's, because he signed it when he was with the Pittsburgh Pirates before the 2002 Season. 6 Years - 60 Million.

He was the best catcher in the NL for many years, and the life blood of the Pittsburgh Pirates from 1996 - 2004. In his rookie year, he hit .300, and made the National League All-Star Team. He was also an All-Star in 1998 and 2000. From 2002 through 2004, Kendall led all major league catchers in games and innings behind the plate.

If anyone deserved a 6 Year - 60 Million contract, it's Jason Kendall. Dude sweats and bleeds A's baseball, and I like having him on our side of the diamond.

June 19th - June 21st, 2006 ** Oakland Athletics @ Colorado Rockies ** Lets Go Oak-Land!

by Colorado Fan on Apr 11, 2006 10:14 AM PDT up reply actions

Let me clarify

Going back to the OP's diary, I agree with everything except the last comment: "That's worth $7m a year."

Before I get to that, I'll just put my own spin on Kendall the player. Simply put, he's a leader and there's always going to be a place for guys like him in baseball, and I'm glad to have him on our side.

And yes, I'm well aware of the circumstances of his contract and how he ended up with us. I don't have a problem with any of it. Like I said in my original reply, Beane did what he could to minimize the mistakes he made with Redman and Rhodes, so I think it's only fair to value Kendall's contributions within that context.

Back to the comment which I disagreed with. Maybe I'm taking it too literally but going straight to the point, you can't put a price tag on leadership. I don't mean that in a good way either. I don't think anyone will disagree that you need leadership to win...however, the bottom line is that most teams determine player contracts based on things like performance (past, predicted, etc) because there are stats and formulas out there which allow them to do so. You may disagree, which is fine, but then you'd be the one who ends up shelling out big money to the Hattebergs of the world (to use an example all of us would know).

Getting away from leadership for a moment, we all know how important Duchscherer is to us, but would you ever consider giving him closer money even though you could probably make a decent statistical case for him? No, because middle relievers simply don't command closer money on the open market and if we did give him closer money, he'd become difficult to trade and we'd ruin our overall roster flexibility. That's exactly what happened to the Pirates when they gave Kendall that contract.

by znk916 on Apr 11, 2006 3:21 PM PDT up reply actions

To answer your last question..

Yes, I would give Duke closer's money - if we didn't already have six guys as likely to close as he is.

Kendall's brand of leadership is not something we have in deep supply. Kotsay could be called a leader, as could Chavez, but neither of them are in your face, picking up the team by the bootstraps kind of leaders.

And Macha sure as hell isn't going to fill the gap, so where does that frontline, first into the fray, 'once more over the top, lads' kind of leadership come from? And how much is it worth to get some?

Personally, I think if you add the $2-3m that Kendall's stats last year were worth, to the $2-3m that extreme leadership is worth, to the $1m or so that the 5-6 games Kendall helped us win last year are worth when you're 'this close' to the playoffs, and you've got a guy worth $7m a year.

To me.

Don't you miss the days of martinis and greenies?

by Ozzz on Apr 11, 2006 4:15 PM PDT up reply actions

I don't see how ...

his stats last year are worth $2-3m ...

Check out the future Mrs. Devo's campaign ...

by devo on Apr 11, 2006 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions

Look harder.

How many players around with .270 BA's make $2-3m a year? Most of them.

Jay Payton hasn't hit better than .267 since 2003, yet he's on $3.5m. Aaron Boone hit .243 last year, and he's getting $3m.

So with guys like that littering the league (and yes, I realize they hit more dingers, but that kind of evens out their lower BA and Kendall's pitch calling), I figure Kendall's numbers are about the $3m level.

Intangibles make his contract not so bad.

Don't you miss the days of martinis and greenies?

by Ozzz on Apr 11, 2006 7:09 PM PDT up reply actions

Shady math!!!

But yeah actually, I think you brought up a great point that this team would have a leadership void without Kendall.

by znk916 on Apr 11, 2006 4:55 PM PDT up reply actions

That's not what happened at all ...

if Kendall were still the stick swinger the Pirates thought they were re-signing, dealing him would be easy. What happened is that he got hurt and was never the same player again ... then he started getting old without aging in the mold of Barry Bonds.

Check out the future Mrs. Devo's campaign ...

by devo on Apr 11, 2006 4:23 PM PDT up reply actions

We'll never know if he stayed healthy

I was going to mention his decline/injuries after signing the deal, but I thought my reply was already too long. Anyways, I just happen to think that the Pirates overpaid even if Kendall maintained his stats. The market has always been more friendly to power hitters, and they gave him a slugger's contract. Furthermore, most teams don't invest that much in catching because they view offensive production from that position as a luxury. I'm just not a fan of doing things too differently from what the market dictates, or even trying to dictate the market itself.

For example, performance issues aside, I disliked the Loaiza signing this offseason because Beane chose to be the trendsetter. Obviously it's all speculation as to whether he was trying to corner the market and perhaps make our own SP surplus more attractive to trade later on, but I just think it's too risky be the trendsetter as a small-market franchise, when there are 29 other teams. Sure we have to take some risks (thinking out of the box) but this kind of risk, I just disagree. I would rather the NY (big-market) teams set the market, and work from there.

by znk916 on Apr 11, 2006 5:16 PM PDT up reply actions

That'd be one heck of a big market.

Don't you miss the days of martinis and greenies?

by Ozzz on Apr 11, 2006 7:11 PM PDT up reply actions

Option B

Very few catchers in the majors actually call games from first pitch to last. Just watch a few games tuesday and see how many catchers look into the dugout for how to handle a given batter. Now, who would Jason be looking at? Is it worth what he gets paid? I don't know. But, it is worth a lot. Option B borders on unwatchable. I've reached the point that I firmly believe Jason should say which reliever he wants too.

Barry and the "Intangibles"

ARF

by Duke of left field on Apr 10, 2006 11:24 PM PDT reply actions

Intangibles?

Now, these were the only intangibles you couldn't argue against...

To be hit by Moriyama's fastball is an honor exceeded only by being crushed under the wheels of the imperial carriage

by elcroata on Apr 10, 2006 11:43 PM PDT reply actions

New and Improved Kendall v2006

Ok, actually he's still a liability. He can't hit for extra bases, he's a GIDP waiting to happen and his OBP is inflated by walks.

BUT, I can at least make the case for him being less of a liability this year because his OBP will be a bigger asset. That is to say, the A's actually have sluggers this year who can drive him in.

I know people say OBP is far more valuable than SLG, but in Kendall's case last year, his pathetic SLG seemed even worse because he wasn't scoring runs either. The A's simply couldn't drive runners in from first well. And that's where JK lived (Challenge: Find another player w/ 650 plate appearances and only 70 runs scored)?

This year, Kendall should score more runs, thus contributing to the offense and at least partially masking his multilayered lack of run production.

"I'm so green and gold that I hang on every pitch, not just every game." - Lew Wolff

by BleacherDrummer on Apr 11, 2006 12:03 AM PDT reply actions

I wonder if Kendall is as lame in the sack...

...as he is at the plate. What a loser.

In spite of him, the A's are looking good. To answer that poll question, yes, if healthy, this current trio of starters of Harden, Haren, and Blanton will pitch as well or better as the original big three.

They probably won't win as much, given the weaker supporting cast however.

"Hope is not the conviction that something will turn out well but the certainty that something makes sense, regardless of how it turns out" - Vaclav Havel

by Czech Micah on Apr 11, 2006 12:26 AM PDT reply actions

Say hello to daddy downer.

Bouncing Czech you are not.

Don't you miss the days of martinis and greenies?

by Ozzz on Apr 11, 2006 12:50 AM PDT up reply actions

Czechmate!

"Bring Watson Back to Oakland in '06"-The Committee is accepting new members. 04/06/06 vs Portland; AB-3, H-1, HR-1, RBI-2

by bigelephant on Apr 11, 2006 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions

Czech, please!

by booya on Apr 11, 2006 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions

Are you related to Jason Kendall or something?

"Hope is not the conviction that something will turn out well but the certainty that something makes sense, regardless of how it turns out" - Vaclav Havel

by Czech Micah on Apr 11, 2006 6:41 PM PDT up reply actions

No.

Are you related to Droopy Dawg, or Marvin the Paranoid Android?

"Life. Don't talk to Micah about life."

Don't you miss the days of martinis and greenies?

by Ozzz on Apr 11, 2006 7:12 PM PDT up reply actions

I implore you.

Please, if you do anything, talk to me about life. I'm sure I could give you a few tips.

"Hope is not the conviction that something will turn out well but the certainty that something makes sense, regardless of how it turns out" - Vaclav Havel

by Czech Micah on Apr 11, 2006 8:04 PM PDT up reply actions

Okay then.

Show me your tips.

Don't you miss the days of martinis and greenies?

by Ozzz on Apr 11, 2006 9:42 PM PDT up reply actions

Tip #1

Don't hesitate to tell the person you love that you love them ;).

"Hope is not the conviction that something will turn out well but the certainty that something makes sense, regardless of how it turns out" - Vaclav Havel

by Czech Micah on Apr 11, 2006 10:19 PM PDT up reply actions

I love you, Czech Micah,

and I want to have your baby. (If you turn me down, I'll pretend I was joking.)

by Nico on Apr 11, 2006 10:24 PM PDT up reply actions

Ah, come on.

I already had that one.

Don't you miss the days of martinis and greenies?

by Ozzz on Apr 12, 2006 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions

Czech your negativity at the door!

Vaclav Havel...

"Macha, Howe...whatever." --salb918

by BruceBochte on Apr 11, 2006 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions

One way to look at it

Kendall is a great game-caller, a team leader, blocks the plate with the best of them and gets on base well. He has a weak throw to second, no power and is susceptible to the GIDP. In today's MLB, I'd say he's worth around $5-6M. So he's wildly overpaid this year and getting closer to reasonable next year. But is that premium worth it in exchange for getting rid of Redman and Rhodes? I'd say not quite, but pretty close overall. Also, factors such as the young staff and the extent to which this team in particular is dependent on pitching to win help balance the ledger a little more.

I'm still glad he's back there for us and expect he'll be better at the plate this year (at least regressing closer to his career percentages). Yes, he's overpaid. But it's not like he brings nothing to the table.

by peanut gallery on Apr 11, 2006 11:49 AM PDT reply actions

Kendall was a poster boy for Pittsburgh

tough as nails, everyday gamer, and a hustler. He got rewarded with a fat contract, and I think that it's a great victory for the blue collar man. Every dollar that he's EARNED has been equated with full out hustle down the line. At least I know he's busting his ass.

While he is making a lot, I like him because he provides things to a team that even most of AN doesn't even understand. He's a championship type player. More people in life should be rewarded like he was.

Two-thirds of the earth is covered by water, the other third is covered by Kotsay.

by carp on Apr 11, 2006 12:26 PM PDT reply actions

Thanks for articulating what I was going to say

I was very excited when the A's got Kendall, because I had always loved watching him play. Until they acquired him, he was the only non-A's player that I could remember wanting to watch. Back in the 90s before I got satellite I would tune into Braves/Pirates games just to see him play. I think he earned and deserved the money in Pittsburgh. Here? I'm not certain, but I don't think that offense is everything when it comes to the amount of money on a contract. I think he's good for the team, and if the boys and Billy like him, then I have no problem with the amount of money he makes.

And the fangirly part of me thinks he's hot. Yeah, I said it.

"If you ever get tired, you just look at Kendall."- Bobby Crosby

by KendallGurl18 on Apr 11, 2006 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions

the non-sexual man crush part of me ...

thinks he looks really good with his glasses on.

Check out the future Mrs. Devo's campaign ...

by devo on Apr 11, 2006 3:18 PM PDT up reply actions

You know how I know you're gay?

You like Kendall.

And Coldplay.

Don't you miss the days of martinis and greenies?

by Ozzz on Apr 11, 2006 4:16 PM PDT up reply actions

Definitely yummy.

He needs to get that facial hair back ASAP, though. The pirate look works for him, the cleanshaven is just a little creepy.

At least the fact that we got Frank Thomas for the cost of Bobby Crosby's rims helps offset the Kendall-cost.

"This must be heaven," he says.
"No. It's Oakland."

by Kyli on Apr 11, 2006 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions

Hate the cleanshaven

He gets that crazy-eyed Tino Martinez facial expression going. Also, the disappearing 70s porn mustache? I never want to see that ever again, Jason. Don't make me become MelhuseGurl.

"If you ever get tired, you just look at Kendall."- Bobby Crosby

by KendallGurl18 on Apr 11, 2006 5:07 PM PDT up reply actions

kendall...

hes one of the worst hitters in the majors who plays everyday. Atleast platoon melhuse. I dont care if Kendall whines about that or shaves his beard. Also Kendalls defense last year was terrible. I wont be that Mad if his defense improves but still give Melhuse more of a shot.

Lets go Oakland! Check out my blog:http://sportsrus33.blogspot.com/

by bballfanr33 on Apr 11, 2006 1:32 PM PDT reply actions

I would guess...

the ? of ? ? is to his ? ? ,by g!

Black Cherry

by Ice Cream on Apr 11, 2006 1:51 PM PDT reply actions

I think Kendall's true value

is his ability to help the pitchers develop ace hardware.

by Nico on Apr 11, 2006 9:12 PM PDT reply actions

Why can't they just drive down the road

and pick up their hardware from Ace? I know the A's are young but surely they all have drivers licenses.

Why yes. I am a ray of warm and fuzzy sunshine.

by grover on Apr 11, 2006 9:17 PM PDT up reply actions

I like him

But he's not worth the 8million a year which is really 12 isn't it? Whatever the case i don't mind him, just think he makes a little to much. Oh, and to add to that i'd pay 12mil a year for a gritty catcher then 10mil to a winey/horrible closer and a weird looking/ bottom rotation starter, as we all know im talking about Rhodes and Redman

by Spidz34 on Apr 12, 2006 2:11 AM PDT reply actions