The Return of Gaudin

by Tyler Bleszinski on Dec 20, 2006 11:55 AM PST in News

It's no secret that I have love for Chad "Wild Thing" Gaudin. Despite his erratic pitching (42 BB/36 K in 64 IP in 2006), he was often able to get out of jams better than almost anyone out of the A's bullpen.

Opposing batters were only able to hit .222 against him. Some other pitchers who were right around that same statistic? Mariano Rivera, Scot Shields, Chad Cordero, Mike Gonzalez and Billy Wagner. Gaudin also entered the game with 35 inherited runners in 2006. He allowed only seven of them to score and most of those came in the second half of the season.

So while many would openly wonder how come Gaudin hasn't had a crack at replacing Barry Zito in the rotation, I have to think that Gaudin would only get the chance if he was able to cut down on the walk rate.

Mychael Urban speculates that Gaudin could be part of a deal that the A's make to get a new starting outfielder. I hope that it doesn't happen just because I think if Gaudin can cut down on his walks, he could be the best option for a future starting pitcher that the A's have. He'll only be 24 at the start of next season (and an early 24 as his birthday is in March).

In the meantime, I do agree that Gaudin might've had a bigger role had the A's not gotten Embree. But I think that Embree, Calero, Duke and Street will be the rotation at the end of the bullpen. Beane already told Embree that he believes that he isn't merely a LOOGY. I think Gaudin will be at the top of that second tier of relievers for the A's.

And who knows, maybe eventually a lot more than that?

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Comments

Count me in

On the Gaudin fan club, although I am very uncomfortable with his K/BB ratio. Every time I see him pitch I have the subjective feeling that he could really be a very good starter, and I would love for him to come into the Spring with a legitimate shot at making the rotation.

I'd like to eat my lunch, but Billy just kicked me out of my office.

by BlameChannel53 on Dec 20, 2006 12:04 PM PST reply actions

I don't think he'll get a shot this year

unless it's with another team as a starter. He needs to go through a season and prove he can cut down on the walks before the A's give him a shot at the rotation. At least that's what I think.

by Tyler Bleszinski on Dec 20, 2006 12:08 PM PST up reply actions

I agree

I don't think he will be given a chance to start for the A's this year, just as Cruz did not get a chance to start for the A's. I wanted Cruz to get a chance, and I wish that Gaudin would. To me, Gaudin's upside (like Cruz) is appealing enough to give him the chance in the Spring. I think Billy has other plans for Gaudin, however.

I'd like to eat my lunch, but Billy just kicked me out of my office.

by BlameChannel53 on Dec 20, 2006 12:12 PM PST up reply actions

Yeah, as the new LFer. Cannon arm.

"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin, Seattle Mariners

by Helloooo 1st on Dec 20, 2006 3:49 PM PST up reply actions

Sell high

on him now. He has some trade value and not much room to move up in the pen or rotation. Could help us get a non sucky LF guy who can actually hit.

by reggiejax on Dec 20, 2006 4:09 PM PST up reply actions

Well

If you're gonna make a trade, you should trade from a position of strength, and the A's' strength is their deep bullpen. So I wouldn't have a problem dealing away Gaudin to get an OF (especially if it's someone like Alex Rios). I like Gaudin too, but if he doesn't reduce his walks or up his K rate, I don't think he can make it very far. I'd rather trade him than Street, Duke or Calero, and when you have that many good arms in the pen, it's OK to deal one of them to get something you need, like offense.

by Philip Christy on Dec 20, 2006 12:27 PM PST reply actions

Gaudin + isn't going to get us Rios...

I don't think the Jays would consider bringing back a guy they gave away to us...even if it now appeared to make sense. It would be horrible for PR, that's for sure.

"We don't want haddock and chips, we want cod. In cod we trust." --Ghostigital, the pride of Iceland

by Cutthemullet on Dec 21, 2006 3:39 AM PST up reply actions

I like Guadin a lot

I'd love to see him stay, too. But you have to wonder who we have that would be good enough trade bait to land a decent OF. Jay Witasick ain't gonna cut it. Guadin is young and has shown promise... perhaps we can get an OF that is the very same.

Zito: I would never bet against this team. First of all because it's against the rules...

by Joey C. on Dec 20, 2006 12:40 PM PST reply actions

The A's still have Jay Witasick...?

Oh man!

by franks a lot on Dec 20, 2006 1:04 PM PST up reply actions

I know.

Talk about depressing. I had completely forgotten about him.

Kettlecorn! Swishercorn!

by TurnTwo on Dec 20, 2006 4:37 PM PST up reply actions

In this market, he's worth $55m over 5 years.

Trade up!

"Kotsay is 31... Kotsay's back is 127." - Jeepers

by Ozzz on Dec 21, 2006 1:31 AM PST up reply actions

Hey

He's probably better than Jose Mesa, right?

... RIGHT?

Zito: I would never bet against this team. First of all because it's against the rules...

by Joey C. on Dec 21, 2006 5:55 AM PST up reply actions

Weird and irrational

Weird and irrational observation here, but Rios is listed at 6'5", very tall for an outfielder. I wonder if height has any bearing on outfield play.

by apilgrim on Dec 20, 2006 12:45 PM PST reply actions

How tall is Dave Winfield?

by AlBowe on Dec 20, 2006 4:23 PM PST up reply actions

6'6"

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Dec 20, 2006 4:31 PM PST up reply actions

Dave Winfield vs Alex Rios

Dave Winfield was an All-American in 2 sports, and I think was drafted by MLB, NFL and NBA teams. A superb athlete.

by apilgrim on Dec 21, 2006 12:11 PM PST up reply actions

your point being what?

that because rios is 6'5" he's going to have problems fielding and tracking balls?

by methodrampage on Dec 21, 2006 1:06 PM PST up reply actions

just a guess

I was guessing he would be a better fielder because he would have a longer reach.

by apilgrim on Dec 22, 2006 4:18 AM PST up reply actions

yeah

he can rob more hrs.

by methodrampage on Dec 21, 2006 7:27 AM PST up reply actions

Gaudin part of trend?

Gaudin always had a very good walk rate in the minors, so it seems odd that he would suddenly lose so much control moving to the bullpen. Stranger still, is that Gaudin was extremely effective despite the loss of control. What might be the strangest, though, is that the A's have had several pitchers like this recently.

Other moderately successful minor league starters the A's have converted into relievers, who have seen their walk rates jump but have still remained effective, include Saarloos and Halsey. It also happened to Duchscherer his first year in the bullpen--his ERA far outpaced his peripherals.

Perhaps they are throwing harder because they don't have to pace themselves, which leads to less control but better BABIP results.

by Danny on Dec 20, 2006 1:09 PM PST reply actions

I should add

that the increased walk rate has also been accompanied by a decreased K/9. Gaudin, for example, had 8 K/9 in the minors but just 5 K/9 last year.

by Danny on Dec 20, 2006 1:11 PM PST up reply actions

I've never liked his mechanics

Gaudin always looks like he's slinging the ball across his body in a kind of crazy way -- even watching him just a few times it's not surprising that he has terrible control.

He does throw hard, and his slider breaks a lot. Despite that, though, he still didn't K many hitters last year, and his control was so bad that he walked more batters than he struck out in every month except May (10BB to 14K) and July (6BB to 7K) last year. His best stat was that he only allowed 3 HR all season.

I don't think he'll ever be good unless he changes his mechanics, and that seems to me to be a pretty big "if" -- he could lose his velocity, or his slider, or hurt himself in the transition.

Bottom line -- if Beane can trade him for a good OF, I'd be happy. I think it's much more likely than not that Gaudin will be another guy who throws hard but never becomes a good pitcher.

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Dec 20, 2006 1:29 PM PST reply actions

You might be right, however...

We got Gaudin from the Blue Jays. The chances of trading him back to them for Alex Rios are very slim. (If that is the OF you were thinking about)

by Hang Man on Dec 20, 2006 1:50 PM PST up reply actions

I didn't really have anyone specific in mind

I'm just saying that trading Gaudin wouldn't upset me if we got some value in return, because I think it's pretty unlikely that he'll ever be particularly good.

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Dec 20, 2006 1:55 PM PST up reply actions

I believe you

In fact, I think it is me who has Alex Rios on his mind. Put him in CF now, slide Kotsay over to LF, and Swish back to first. Sure Kotsay might get his shorts twisted, and that leaves DJ without a position, but there are worse problems.

by Hang Man on Dec 20, 2006 2:10 PM PST up reply actions

Why put Rios in center?

He was in right in Toronto and I'd wager that Kotsay is still a better defensive CFer, cranky back and all.

That being said, Toronto would have to be crazy to trade Rios now. He is definitely primed for a breakout year next year, if last year wasn't already it. I doubt they trade him to anyone.

"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin, Seattle Mariners

by Helloooo 1st on Dec 20, 2006 3:53 PM PST up reply actions

Rios' natural position is CF

That's on of the big reason Toronto is looking to move him. They just locked up their center-fielder of the next half a decade (Wells) I agree with the hang man. If you can get Rios you move Kots to LF

by sactownbull on Dec 20, 2006 4:16 PM PST up reply actions

If you get Rios you flip Bradly

for a starter(s)

Kotsay is a tougher sell - Grover is right the team has to have grass and how many teams still do?

Rios and Kotsay can rotate in RF/CF with Swisher in LF and Kielty #4.

Buck may be ready mid season.

by A s Eh on Dec 20, 2006 11:02 PM PST up reply actions

Move Bradly?

We need more outfielders not fewer. And we damn sure don't need to move one of our power hitters. And Kielty is not an answer to any question.

by sactownbull on Dec 21, 2006 9:03 AM PST up reply actions

And why would we trade a stater for an outfielder

and then turn around and trade an outfielder for a starter? Makes no sense.

by sactownbull on Dec 21, 2006 9:05 AM PST up reply actions

I disagree.

I believe he already is a good pitcher. Good, but not great. His BB/K ratio may be out of wack, but he is also very young and last year was his first full season in the majors and first out of the bullpen. Beane believes he's got the best pure stuff on the team outside of Harden and that could definitely be true. Consider me part of the Chad for Rotation bandwagon.

"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin, Seattle Mariners

by Helloooo 1st on Dec 20, 2006 3:55 PM PST up reply actions

K/BB ratio isn't the only problem

The big problem is that he struck out fewer than 1 hitter every 2 innings (64 IP, 36 Ks). For his career, he has 101 Ks in 159.2 innings. Those are completely unimpressive numbers, to say the least.

Blanton, hardly a strikeout machine, had more Ks per 9 last year (194.1 innings, 101 Ks).

His stuff may look good, but ML hitters have never had a problem making contact, or laying off pitches out of the strike zone. If he were wild but unhittable, we could hope that he'd cut down on the BBs and start to dominate. But that's just not his track record.

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Dec 20, 2006 4:30 PM PST up reply actions

Slight Correction

36 K in 64 innings is more than 1 hitter every 2 innings, and a little higher than Blanton's rate as well. But that's still pretty unimpressive for a power reliever - Calero strikes out more than a batter per inning, and Duchscherer and Street are close to that rate as well.

I'm in the camp that thinks Gaudin could still turn into a good pitcher, but it seems clear that he's not there yet.

In the stands the home crowd scatters For the turnstiles

by andeux on Dec 20, 2006 4:56 PM PST up reply actions

More, less, whatever.

The sad thing is, my daughter's in 2nd grade and I'm pretty sure she wouldn't have made that mistake!

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Dec 20, 2006 5:56 PM PST up reply actions

If he has an Upside, I bet it is

a big one....but that's rub with these players you never know about the upside until you see it.

rip 2006, it was nice while it lasted.

by ak_A on Dec 20, 2006 1:54 PM PST reply actions

Gaudin has a big upside,

whereas Blanton has a big...

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Dec 20, 2006 1:55 PM PST up reply actions

Ra Ra Rass

...Kick him in the.....

"I've been accused of using too many words...I suppose that's like accusing Mozart of using too many notes." Bill King

by Gerard on Dec 20, 2006 3:20 PM PST up reply actions

Blanton has three knees?

"Look its either batman or batman and robin not robin w/o batman robin isn't sh@#."--cchefz71

by jeepers on Dec 20, 2006 3:27 PM PST up reply actions

He's in line

To replace Bradford as Big Bad Chad.

UC Davis Athletics KDVS 90.3FM www.kdvs.org/streams.cfm

by Hit4TheCycle on Dec 20, 2006 1:56 PM PST reply actions

My opinion, from Key West...

Gaudin's walk numbers don't concern me as much as they concern some, because of his age (really young) and the stats from guys like Harden their first major league season. I'm not sure Gaudin lacks the ability to find the plate so much as he lacks confidence in his stuff.

What DOES concern me is the lack of a true offspeed pitch. He is similar to Jeremy Bonderman, but few pitchers can survive in a rotation without a changeup OR a splitter OR a slow curve, etc.

So I could see Gaudin beating Nick's odds to become an above-average middle reliever; I could see him adding an offspeed pitch and becoming a solid starter. But I can't see him becoming a solid starter with the arsenal he has now.

Which leaves us where we started: Waiting for Gaudin...

Toodles!

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 20, 2006 2:31 PM PST reply actions

Yeah, but what's your opinon of Key West?

Lots of bars, huh?

Don't get too drunk, fall down and conch youself in the head, Nico.

But...DO try the stone crab and of course some authentic Key Lime pie.

Candy Cane

by Ice Cream on Dec 20, 2006 2:37 PM PST up reply actions

I agree

It always seemed to me that Gaudin was around the plate, not wild as much as he didn't get the close call, he's been in the majors since he was 20 so he never had a chance to learn a different pitch. It has great stuff, better than Windsor or Komine, I would love to see him get a real shot at starting but from everything I read the A's don't see it that way.

by china bob on Dec 20, 2006 3:22 PM PST up reply actions

Nico, If you can go snorkeling...

...take advantage of one of the many trips offered down there. Totally worth it!

Just don't flash a shiny watch in the eyes of a baracuda ...unless you don't need your watch any more...

"I've been accused of using too many words...I suppose that's like accusing Mozart of using too many notes." Bill King

by Gerard on Dec 20, 2006 3:23 PM PST up reply actions

Key West, eh?

hmmmm.

rip 2006, it was nice while it lasted.

by ak_A on Dec 20, 2006 5:35 PM PST up reply actions

Actually, I should correct myself--

I'm not in Key West after all. Until I got here I thought I was going to Key West, but it turns out there are many islands close together all called by different names (who knew?) and it I'm actually 53 miles from Key West in a place known as "Key Colony Bay". Key West is on the very southern tip, looking straight at Cuba; I'm a much farther raft-ride away from dropping in on Castro for lunch (or last rites, as the case may be).

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 21, 2006 11:33 AM PST up reply actions

Thanks for the geography lesson asshole

And yes, I'm being testy because of insane jealousy brought on by the fact that you are in Key West/Colony Bay and I am not.

I'd like to eat my lunch, but Billy just kicked me out of my office.

by BlameChannel53 on Dec 21, 2006 11:41 AM PST up reply actions

It rained this morning and it's windy.

If that helps.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 21, 2006 11:44 AM PST up reply actions

I'm in Fresno

So it doesn't really help.

I'd like to eat my lunch, but Billy just kicked me out of my office.

by BlameChannel53 on Dec 21, 2006 11:46 AM PST up reply actions

<castro dies>

Photo of Nico on front page as new cuban strongman.

rip 2006, it was nice while it lasted.

by ak_A on Dec 21, 2006 7:36 PM PST up reply actions

The Dodgers also want Rios

I just hope we get him... Piazza isn't as good as Thomas...Kielty isn't as good as Payton was...and you know Kennedy isn't as good as Zito. We need another bat to contend.

by IM4Oakgal on Dec 20, 2006 4:14 PM PST reply actions

we need LUMBER

Trade Gaudin, Blanton, Komine or other young talent for some pop. We lost Thomas and Payton, and we were light hitting all last year. Don't you remember how miserable that was? I don't know about you, but I feel a little quesy about the offense. We got to the playoffs, but dang! can't somebody hit the damn ball??
Give me Milledge!!!!!

by elephantman on Dec 20, 2006 10:49 PM PST reply actions

The real question--

who AREN'T we rumored to be trading this offseason?

"This must be heaven," he says.
"No. It's Oakland."

by Kyli on Dec 20, 2006 11:26 PM PST reply actions

These guys.

"Kotsay is 31... Kotsay's back is 127." - Jeepers

by Ozzz on Dec 21, 2006 1:38 AM PST up reply actions

If he improves

he gives us better flexibility by keeping him. I'd imagine Calero would get more trade interest, and surely Duke would. If Gaudin can replace one of them, that'd probably be the more likely trade scenario. Something like Calero + Windsor/Komine or somebody like Powell for Rios? That seems more likely.

by Eric in Atlanta on Dec 21, 2006 7:34 AM PST reply actions