Scott Boras is getting screwed

by mikedaviswhereareyou on Dec 11, 2006 9:57 PM PST

A bit off A's relations, but I have to say this. And trust me, it kills me to defend Scott Boras. But the Red Sox, if their current offer is really what they think is realistic, are screwing the man.

Scott Boras represents DM. Not the Seibu Lions.

The Red Sox are, according to reports, offering 7-8 million a year. Boras wants 14 to 15. Huge gulf. But seriously, DM is not a 7-8 million a year pitcher. In this market, if a free agent, he might get exactly what Boras is asking. In fact, I think he would. Would he be worth it? well, that is not relevant. Gary Mathews Jr. is not going to earn his paycheck for long either.

The Red Sox paid 51.1 million to negotiate with DM. Neither Scott Boras, nor DM recieved a penny. The Sox are turning to public opinion to whip Scott Boras over the total amount they will have to pay to sign DM. This is hardly BOras's fault. he did not force the Sox to offer that much money. He has a client, and it appears he is asking reasonable money for his services.

Now, I do salute the red sox. This is a serious market loophole they are exploiting. They got a player into a situation where he is no longer a free agent. He has one team with which to negotiate. take it or leave it. It is very much like the old system with a team owning a player's rights. The Red Six just happened to pay 51.1 million for them. But the player sees not a penny of that, and if he declines, he earns peanuts for another 2 years, exposes himself to injury and market correction. D*man right Boras will sign him. He has to.

Taking two years in Japan would decrease DM's eventual payday by around 15 million. If he plays 15 year of pro ball, that means that he would have to make over a million more a year to over come that loss. Throw in the time value of money, and we are talking about needing a payday in two years when he is a free agent, of maybe 25 million more than he would otherwise need to end up at the same place as he would if he signed for the 7-8 million the Red Sox are offering.

Its a facinating case in negotiating tactics. This time though, truly Scott Boras is at the disadvantage.

Tweet Comment 43 comments | 0 recs |

Do you like this story?

Comments

Hideki Irabu syndrome

Irabu was supposed to be the next Big Deal out of Japan and he tanked. Matsuzaka has never pitched in the big leagues, I think Boston is perfectly justified in offering a sub-8 figure deal.

This guy is dead! We'll list him as day-to-day for possible reincarnation.

A's Medical Staff, 2006

by grover on Dec 11, 2006 9:59 PM PST reply actions

Their posting bid tells me

that they think he's better than a $7MM pitcher (you know, like Esteban or Benson and not as good as Meche).

Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Dec 12, 2006 6:06 AM PST up reply actions

Right or wrong

They're factoring in the posting fee.

In two years DM is a true FA. If he wants to come to America early he's going to have to make a sacrifice somewhere.

I agree, $7-8 million is low ball but that's where you've got to start when dealing with Boras. Does DM "deserve" a higher salary than what Boston offered? Yes. Does he "deserve" what Boras says he does? Nope.

This guy is dead! We'll list him as day-to-day for possible reincarnation.

A's Medical Staff, 2006

by grover on Dec 12, 2006 9:05 AM PST up reply actions

Totally agree

The Red Sox are doing the right thing within the system. They are using the leverage that they have. Plus, they will "save" $51.1 million if they don't reach a deal, money that they could use to bring the Roid Rocket back to Boston and sign another player or two as well.

If Boras and D-Mat want to break off negotiations with the Red Sox and challenge the legality of the posting system, that is their choice, and if they go that route, we'll see how that plays out.

But if Boras is just using a threat to challenge the system as another ploy to get $100 million or more from the Red Sox, then it's just negotiating rhetoric and I'm not going to take it seriously.

MJB

by MJB on Dec 12, 2006 12:19 PM PST up reply actions

It's okay for the Red Sox to ignore

the spirit of the rule -- but McGwire needs to get in line behind Rose for the Hall of Fame?

If the rules allow for something, even if the spirit of the rules and the intention of those writing them intended something different, you are in this post arguing that it is only sensible for interested individuals/groups to do what is in their best interest within the established rules.

What's the difference?

Read my latest articles

by devo on Dec 12, 2006 12:58 PM PST up reply actions

How are they ignoring the rule

Where in the rule does it say you have to let Boras hold a gun to your head and clean out your bank accounts no matter what the fair market value is?

If they were offering D-Mat $300,000 per year, then yes, they would be not bargaining in good faith. But they are offering very fair value to a pitcher who has never pitched in MLB and is as likely to be the next Irabu as the next Pedro.

And, yes, McGwire still needs to get in line behind the other cheaters who are have been waiting much longer for the Hall to let them in.

MJB

by MJB on Dec 12, 2006 4:11 PM PST up reply actions

Rookies

Isn't D-Mat basically a rookie who should be making rookie salary? I'm not even sure if that's not a correct and valid value considering he's fully eligible to get rookie awards.

by tomoyo on Dec 12, 2006 4:23 PM PST up reply actions

international players...

are not included in the amateur draft; therefore, they are free agents from the start. This can lead to great bargains for major league teams who scout Latin America well, as a 16-year-old (or at least supposedly 16-year-old; Adrian Beltre, for one, probably signed with the Dodgers when he was 15) Dominican prospect can sign for almost nothing...but with established players, like, say, veteran defectors from Cuba (Contreras, El Duque) or Japanese stars who have played long enough in their league to have been granted either the right to negotiate with an MLB team through the posting system, or, a couple years later, outright free agency, it's quite a gamble, as they are players unproven at the major league level who will command significant financial commitments. Of course, when Gil Meche can make 55 million on the free agency market, everything pales in comaprison...especially a hypothetical $20-25 million per year investment (posting fee + total contract/years of contract) in a guy who may be the best pitcher in the world not named Johan Santana.

So, their circumstances may be much different, but the major league-minimum-earning homegrown American collegiate prospect who excelled at every minor league stop en route to the majors and the high-salaried, established Japanese veteran making his major league debut are alike in one way: they have no prior major league baseball experience. Which is why they would both be eligible for the rookie of the year award.

"We don't want haddock and chips, we want cod. In cod we trust." --Ghostigital, the pride of Iceland

by Cutthemullet on Dec 12, 2006 9:41 PM PST up reply actions

Not that different

I'm going to have to disagree that the circumstances are that different. Both involve going from another league that has a lower talent level to the majors. Obviously the japanese league is much closer than triple-a, but there is certainly a difference. There seems no strong reason to treat a new major league player differently when we don't know how well they are going to do. Plenty of failures from japan to here, see Kaz Matsui, Tsuyoshi Shinjo, Hideki Irabu, etc. I don't think it makes sense to pay so much money for a guy who is just as unpredictable as any Triple-A minor. Obviously there's a great chance he'll be a good to great pitcher, but isn't a known quantity with some non-flakey history worth a lot more?

by tomoyo on Dec 13, 2006 10:10 AM PST up reply actions

The 'rule', as you allude to in the second

paragraph, is that there is a gentleman's agreement in effect requiring the winning bidder to bargain in good faith.

I don't think it's at all bargaing in good faith to bid four times what the Mariners had for Ichiro -- but then, in adjusted dollars, barely offer him any more per year.

Read my latest articles

by devo on Dec 12, 2006 5:15 PM PST up reply actions

Strange

Strange, I don't think the amount paid in the posting has ANYTHING to do with the contract for the player. Next I think it's very likely that Ichiro will be the better player vs matsuzaka. That to me makes me think they should be paying LESS than ichiro money.

by tomoyo on Dec 12, 2006 7:05 PM PST up reply actions

I'm glad you wrote about this.

This system is such a clusterf#$%. The Seibu Lions are going to get more money than the player is. I've discussed this with HollywoodOz a bit, and I see where he's coming from regarding how the money helps keep NPB from losing its best players. That said, this system doesn't help what either the player or the Japanese team wants to accomplish.

"Look its either batman or batman and robin not robin w/o batman robin isn't sh@#."--cchefz71

by jeepers on Dec 11, 2006 10:03 PM PST reply actions

Last minute decison

Probably going to go down to the last minute and Boras is going to get screwed. There is way too much social pressure for Matsuzaka to sign and give that money to the Seibu owners who need to take care of their expensive yakuza debt.

Yeah Boras and Matsuzaka will get screwed, lets hope Matsuzaka plays with a chip on his shoulder and throws a big game to the A's in the ALCS.

Just makes me wonder if there are some good college recruiting chances for US colleges over there. Their arms will thank us.

by apilgrim on Dec 11, 2006 10:14 PM PST reply actions

Daisuke

I don't think Daisuke or Boras is getting screwed. Tons of money already being thrown at them, without any proof of major league ability. Just because they don't get the other 51 mil, doesn't mean they aren't multimillionaires for life.

by tomoyo on Dec 12, 2006 12:16 PM PST up reply actions

Boras getting screwed?

Yeah, not shedding any tears here.

HOW 'BOUT THEM COWBOYS?!?!

by JLaff on Dec 11, 2006 10:18 PM PST reply actions

yeah, but

DM isn't even getting $7-8 million a year in japan. he might be worth $14-15 million on the open market, but this isn't an open market, so boras is going to have to at some point either take what the red sox are offering or leave it, and if he leaves it, DM will have to play for a LOT less in japan one more year. i don't think that would be in matsuzaka's best interest. a deal will get done. it's not only in matsuzaka's interest that a deal get done, but also seibu's. they want the posting fee, which they will only get if a deal is finalized between the sox and matsuzaka.

i think part of it is that the red sox are waiting as long as possible before they part with that $51 million, which has to be paid as a lump sum. i bet even the daily interest, or whatever they do with that kind of capital, is worth enough for them to delay until the deadline. the money is due as soon as a deal is finalized, so it makes financial sense to not finalize it until the last day.

by vishal on Dec 12, 2006 1:23 AM PST reply actions

He'll be on the open market next year

as a true FA. If the Sox want to offer a low value in the first year it makes sense. But every year after that is like buying an arb-eligible player's FA year.

Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Dec 12, 2006 6:03 AM PST up reply actions

I thought

that he wouldn't be a FA next year as well since his contract doesn't run out until some point in the 2008 season (May/June?). I'm sure there will be teams willing to bid for him mid-season, but it would only exacerbate the cultural adjustment process to jump right into a presumed pennant race.

Can someone clarify when he would be a FA?

Signatures? We don't need no stinking signatures.

by jubjub on Dec 12, 2006 6:41 AM PST up reply actions

After the 2008 season.

He was posted two years before he becomes a free agent, not one.

"Look its either batman or batman and robin not robin w/o batman robin isn't sh@#."--cchefz71

by jeepers on Dec 12, 2006 8:43 AM PST up reply actions

My thoughts:

They'll meet in the middle, but until they do, both sides are playing hardball against the other.

No matter what, Boras will be banking another million bucks every year, so he ain't weeping.

"Kotsay is 31... Kotsay's back is 127." - Jeepers

by Ozzz on Dec 12, 2006 2:34 AM PST reply actions

Boras may or may not be getting screwed....

but one thing is certain. Boras is going to get paid. He may not get quite as much as he is used to squeezing out of desperate owners, but he will get his pound of flesh. There is no way Boston cannot do this deal, because the pirranah that is the Boston fan base/media will chew the front office to pieces if they don't get the deal done. Boras knows he will get more than they are currently offering, even if it's a side deal with Seibu for a chunk of the 51M payoff. They (Seibu) aren't likely to let that kind of money slip away.

Any tears for poor old Scott will have to be of the crocodile variety. I am certain he will find a way to squeak by on his meager earnings.

"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on Dec 12, 2006 3:58 AM PST reply actions

side deal

would that sort of deal have to be under the table...?

"We don't want haddock and chips, we want cod. In cod we trust." --Ghostigital, the pride of Iceland

by Cutthemullet on Dec 12, 2006 9:47 PM PST up reply actions

I honestly don't know.

But I would imagine the Seibu owners would prefer 40M as compared to nothing. The posters below could be right in that Boston is engaged in subterfuge and has never had any intention of signing him to a high dollar contract. Or they may be counting on Boras to blink first and sign on the dotted line.

"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on Dec 12, 2006 11:03 PM PST up reply actions

subterfuge

yeah, I've half-subscribed to that theory ever since the size of the winning bid was revealed...hey, if the Giambi signing was partially motivated to keep him away from us, it's more than fair to NOT sign a player to keep him out of pinstripes.

"We don't want haddock and chips, we want cod. In cod we trust." --Ghostigital, the pride of Iceland

by Cutthemullet on Dec 12, 2006 11:15 PM PST up reply actions

more rumors: Boston may be preparing

to offer the fattest contract ever for a player who has never played in the MLB:

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/extras/extra_bases/2006/12/high_noon_has_a.html

by OaklandSi on Dec 12, 2006 6:36 AM PST reply actions

I won't weep

for Scott Boras. He represents the totality of evil in the world.

I hope the deal falls apart and the Red Sox boycott all his other clients.

Signatures? We don't need no stinking signatures.

by jubjub on Dec 12, 2006 6:44 AM PST reply actions

Does he though?

I mean, I hate to be an apologist, but MLB is filthy rich, why shouldn't the players get as large a cut of that as the market will bear? Now, to support your point, I am not certain Scott Boras has his client's long term interests at heart, in that he does a poor job of valuing non-monetary factors. I remember when he scewed Greg Maddux a few years back too. Maddux and Milwood were both free agents with similar numbers. Boras convinced Maddux to take a one year deal because having two similar pitchers out there would increase supply and harm the amount he could get for either one. Maddux did, and if I recall, had a mediocre season, and has been more or less year to year contracts ever since. Thats no good. But if its between George Steinbrenner getting the Money, or Mo Rivera, 'cause you KNOW it is not going back to the fan, then I think the player should get as much as possible.

by mikedaviswhereareyou on Dec 12, 2006 9:24 AM PST up reply actions

Luxury Tax implications

The Sox are using the huge posting fee as a negotation ploy to the pay the player less. There is little doubt that on the open market Matsuzaka would be worth closer to Boras' figures than the Sox. By bidding the huge posing fee and then lowballing Matsuzaka the Sox can expoit a loophole in the luxury tax system. I can't believe I'm saying this, but I agree with Boras on this one. Foreign players should become unrestricted free agents.

I like Aloysius Szymanski

by gojohn10 on Dec 12, 2006 7:40 AM PST reply actions

But he is not a free agent.

He is under club control. I say we just submit Matsuzaka to arbitration and see where it goes from there.

I'm not a big wine guy... Where do you grow the BEER?

by str8tarrow on Dec 12, 2006 7:47 AM PST reply actions

But he is not a free agent.

He is under club control. I say we just submit Matsuzaka to arbitration and see where it goes from there.

I'm not a big wine guy... Where do you grow the BEER?

by str8tarrow on Dec 12, 2006 7:47 AM PST reply actions

In your first three years

you're not eligible for arbitration, either.

"Look its either batman or batman and robin not robin w/o batman robin isn't sh@#."--cchefz71

by jeepers on Dec 12, 2006 7:52 AM PST up reply actions

another thought

The Japanese team gets 51M, if they want the deal done--get back in the game-- offer the player 3-5M to sign the RS offer. As far as Boras is concerned--who gives a damn for this blood sucker!

by PhillyAs on Dec 12, 2006 7:49 AM PST reply actions

The Red Sox are stupid...

If they start burning bridges... when DM really is a free agent, he'll sign with the Yanks. Give him 13 million and call it a deal.

by brenarlo on Dec 12, 2006 7:51 AM PST reply actions

I feel no

sympathy for Boras. Why should this player get $15M, he hasn't pitched in a MLB game.

by oaklandbbfan on Dec 12, 2006 9:09 AM PST reply actions

Boston is paying a lot more

Factor in the fee and at $15M a year, Boston would be paying $126M total for five years --- that's $25M a year, A-Rod kind of money, for a guy who is totally unproven in MLB. And, if you look at the Japanese players who've come over, few have been as good as advertised, even Ichiro, who was supposed to be a decent power bat. Hideki Matsui, the Mickey Mantle of Japan, is a good solid outfielder, no more. Nomo had good and bad years, Irabu and Kaz Matsui were busts. A couple of the closers have been okay, but they're not making anyone forget Mariano Rivera or Gagne in his prime.

by richwol on Dec 12, 2006 2:03 PM PST up reply actions

Matsuzaka should've hired Borat instead

Boras was a bad match from the get go, since his strength as an agent has always been pitting teams against each other to drive up the price, or at least making teams think that. With Matsuzaka that was never going to be the case, which Boras obviously knew. That he may be struggling without the use of his best pitch, as it were, is Boras' own damn fault.

"Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?" --Johnny Rotten

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Dec 12, 2006 9:09 AM PST reply actions

If Boras is getting screwed

does that mean that somewhere an Angel is getting his wings?

This guy is dead! We'll list him as day-to-day for possible reincarnation.

A's Medical Staff, 2006

by grover on Dec 12, 2006 9:18 AM PST reply actions

This is Total Bullshit

How can boras be screwed? He's just the agent, he makes money off every contract. He's got millions, all he does is try to make contracts as high as possible so that he gets more people to represent and make more. There's nothing unfair about Boston's deals. It's far higher than anything the pitcher has made in Japan and Daisuke is COMPLETELY UNPROVEN AND ROOKIE IN THE MLB. There's no way he's worth ace money now. He'll only be worth $15+ mil when he shows he can pitch nearly as well as Johan. BORAS WINS no matter what. The greedy one wins even if his client takes way less. He wins if his client tries again next year. He wins if his client goes to free agency in 2 years. In fact, he wins even if his client leaves him because I doubt he isn't paid for the time represented. Boras wins. Everyone else loses. End of story.

by tomoyo on Dec 12, 2006 12:11 PM PST reply actions

I'd offer D-mat 4 years 4-5 mil/yr.

He's unproven except for WBC and it would equate the posting fee (look at Soccer abroad with transfer fees and mostly lower than mkt. salaries) to make his salary resonable. Boras can whine all he wants, but not accepting would be disrespectful in Japanese culture. He's getting over 200% increase in salary even at this number... I don't like the Sox, but its time agents like him had their balls put in a vice. His Japanese team will probably step in and give him a bonus to sign which could work everything out... with only Boras having to kow-tow all the way home.

"I see Milton Bradley being the Oaktown player that breaks out this year." breaks out... breaks out of where? jail?

by gdub171 on Dec 12, 2006 1:28 PM PST reply actions

I've had a feeling from the start...

that Theo made that ridiculous bid with no intention of signing DM. I believe that it was nothing more than a cock block of the Yankees and a suck-up move to Boras so the Red Sox could get their hands on other Boras players (IE. J.D. Drew). How are they going to bridge this financial gap in a matter of hours and still get him a physical. No way! If Theo wanted this done he would have come to the table a week ago. Just a theory....

by jjham15 on Dec 12, 2006 6:57 PM PST reply actions

Great Plan

Sounds like a great plan to me, block other teams from picking up the pitcher and still have a chance to try again next year. I think this is actually turning out to be one of the smartest moves. Epstein can either a) Get Matsuzaka for a fair price b) Not get him, but nobody else does.

by tomoyo on Dec 12, 2006 7:07 PM PST up reply actions

I Agree

The Red Sox top priority was making sure the Yankees didn't get Matsuzaka.

Even if he signed for relatively low price of $14M for 2 years, you have to factor in the insane negotiating fee. There is no way the Red Sox would pay $65M for two years of an untested pitcher.

I don't think Boston has any intention of signing him.

by Eck on Dec 12, 2006 9:48 PM PST up reply actions