Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: Knicks 90, Raptors 87: "Shump and Lin wouldn't let us lose."

Zito in talks with the Rangers

I'm not too surprised that he's talkign with them, especially after Washington got the manager job.

I don't expect to Zito to sign with Texas or anyone in the near future. Boras wants to wait until Schmidt and Matsuzaka sign so he can get as much as possible.

I'd still bet the Mets sign Zito mainly because they will shell out the most cash because they have no choice.

If Zito does by chance sign in Texas or maybe even Anaheim, then I can't wait to take all those walks he will give us when we face him.

Comment 28 comments  |  0 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

zito is zito
he has been great for the A's the last 6 years. No need to talk bad. Walks has hurt him but dont forget he outdueled Johan in Minnesoto.

He is gone that is fine I can guarantee everyone on this site that if someone would pay them twice as much to pitch, sell, be a paperboy they would take it. So dont hate them YOU would do the same. That is the bottom line

by Bud Light on Nov 30, 2006 7:54 PM PST reply actions  

Not true, Bud Light--
Not everyone on this site is all about "the most money". It always bugs me when people make this assumption. Many may operate just that way, but many don't.

Where I will agree with you is that while I was not one of the biggest Zito-supporters, I think his addition to the Rangers rotation would be a big step forward for Texas--probably putting them one just solid starter away from being a legitimate contender in 2007. Why they don't trade one of their good hitters (Blalock?) for a solid starter is beyond me--I'm just glad they never do.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 30, 2006 9:02 PM PST up reply actions  

The Rangers & Zito
If they do come together (which I highly, highly doubt), then both parties involved will be very disappointed.  Zito if a flyball pitcher, and gives up more than his fair share of walks.  He's a great guy to have if you play in a big park with a great defense behind him.  But his value drops sharply if you put him in a bandbox with mediocre fielders.  I would bet good money that if Zito ends up in Texas, he'll never get his ERA below 4.00 while he's there.

by Inquisitor on Dec 1, 2006 7:16 AM PST up reply actions  

Then please to explain, Inquisitor,
how Zito has the following career numbers pitching at Texas (always facing an above-average lineup, no less):

11-1, 3.75 ERA, .218 BAA.

Zito may or may not pitch well at Ameriquest in the future, but he most certainly has pitched very, very well there in the past.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Dec 1, 2006 8:13 AM PST up reply actions  

Further
his home/road splits don't support this argument, either.  If we grant that Oakland is a "pitcher's park," then why were his road numbers a whole lot better last year?

Home: 4.71 ERA, .275 BAA/.833 OPS
Away: 2.97 ERA, .240 BAA/.684 OPS

Over the last three years:

Home: 4.32 ERA, .246 BAA
Away: 3.77 ERA, .249 BAA

For some reason, ESPN doesn't give you the OPS against over three years--but he allowed 47 homers at home, and 34 on the road during that time, which suggests the OPS at home is a lot higher.

"Look its either batman or batman and robin not robin w/o batman robin isn't sh@#."--cchefz71

by jeepers on Dec 1, 2006 9:18 AM PST up reply actions  

How many times are you going to post this???
Just because Zito doesn't pitch well in Oakland doesn't mean that it is not a pitchers park.

Anyone remember Steve Ontiveras?

by jjham15 on Dec 1, 2006 9:18 PM PST up reply actions  

his point...
wasn't that The Coliseum isn't a pitchers' park (would anyone here dispute that?), but that the idea that Zito would likely fail at Texas may be untrue.  Of course, others, like Inquisitor, disagree.
"We don't want haddock and chips, we want cod. In cod we trust." --Ghostigital, the pride of Iceland

by Cutthemullet on Dec 2, 2006 10:03 PM PST up reply actions  

The next time I do
will make it twice.  Seems like a reasonable number to me.

Zito is going to succeed for whoever signs him, because he's a good pitcher.  It doesn't really matter where he signs.  He will also be overpaid, because there's no such thing as market value in this free agent climate.  I hope it's the Mets, so we don't get reminded annually of how good Zito is.

"Look its either batman or batman and robin not robin w/o batman robin isn't sh@#."--cchefz71

by jeepers on Dec 4, 2006 8:59 AM PST up reply actions  

Numbers yes, conclusion no
The numbers are what they are, Nico, but I disagree with the implication that many will make from those numbers (you made no future prediction based on those numbers but I think many others will).  Past performance is obviously a good measure of future performance, but only within the same set of parameters.  

Here, two parameters have changed that lead me to conclude that Zito's performance will not hold up in Texas.  First, his numbers at Texas have been far worse the last few years (5.28 E.R.A. in 2004-2006, although he was at 3.74 this year).  If I were Zito, I would be concerned by the fact that my stuff and control has declined in the past few years which makes me increasingly susceptible to Ameriquest's potential terrors for pitchers.  

Second, and most importantly, it is hard to get an accurate picture of how Zito will fare pitching half his games in Ameriquest by his pitching in a very few games there (7 games in the last 3 years for example.)  Pitchers who have pitched in Coors Field and Ameriquest have complained about the cumulative effect of pitching so many games there.  I think this cumulative effect will be worse for Zito based on two factors: he consistently throws among the most pitches of any pitcher in baseball and he is a person who appears to be oversensitive when fialure comes along.  I think Zito will suffer greatly from both mental and physical fatigue in Ameriquest.  

Of course, I am making subjective judgments when the raw data does not support my theory, something my empirical self is uncomfortable with.  I may end up being completely wrong, but I predict that Zito will be a disaster for Texas if they sign him.  It just seems too much like the Eric Milton in Cincinnati or Darryl Kile in Colarado signings to me, made worse by the fact that Zito will be getting twice the number of years and quadruple the amount of money.

I'd like to eat my lunch, but Billy just kicked me out of my office.

by BlameChannel53 on Dec 1, 2006 9:32 AM PST up reply actions  

now THAT...
is good analysis, well done
"We don't want haddock and chips, we want cod. In cod we trust." --Ghostigital, the pride of Iceland

by Cutthemullet on Dec 2, 2006 10:05 PM PST up reply actions  

Two Words:
Sample Size

Any significant look at Ameriquest will tell you that it's a hitter's paradise.  Any significant look at the Coliseum will tell you that it's a pitcher's park (or, recently, relatively run-neutral).  Barry Zito is a flyball pitcher.  Flyball pitchers, as a population, do not do well in Ameriquest.  Taking one pitcher's performance there in an isolated sample size doesn't give you much to base predictions of future performance on, even for that one particular pitcher.  

However, looking at larger issues that do have a stronger statistical foundation will give you a better prediction than just looking at Zito's individual situation.  It sounds backwards, but it's true.  Until we have reason to believe that for some reason, Barry Zito will always pitch well in Ameriquest (which would basically take a sample size of several years of pitching at home there), you can't point at this one particular case and say, "Well he's gonna pitch well there because he did it before".

by Inquisitor on Dec 1, 2006 12:44 PM PST up reply actions  

Man..dont go to Texas....
Be smarter than that BZ
Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Nov 30, 2006 7:56 PM PST reply actions  

Sorry for the stupid question,
but, if he's not signed by another team by December 1, do we still get compensation picks for him.  
"Good or bad, I don't know. This is awesome." ~Nick Swisher

by humdinger on Nov 30, 2006 8:49 PM PST reply actions  

Yes, if he is offered arbitration
Which I am sure he will be. The A's know he will get offers that are much better than the one-year deal he would receive in arbitration.
"You are not very good, Dad. You always lose." --Dylan

by dylantravis on Nov 30, 2006 9:14 PM PST up reply actions  

Oh Crap
Crap crap.
Fire Macha Yesterday!

by dboysick on Nov 30, 2006 9:06 PM PST reply actions  

Not good for the A's
He undoubtedly makes the Rangers, who won 80 games last year, a better team.  Combine that with Ron Washington and a Vicente Padilla signing, and they look competitive, especially if they run into some luck.
"Look its either batman or batman and robin not robin w/o batman robin isn't sh@#."--cchefz71

by jeepers on Nov 30, 2006 9:27 PM PST reply actions  

I think it's good
The Rangers spend money on a FLY BALL pitcher in a big time FLY BALL park...  he was great in Oakland, but will never be in Texas.

by brenarlo on Nov 30, 2006 9:37 PM PST reply actions  

Probably true
He may never be great in Texas, but if he can give them 200+ IP of above average it would be a huge boost for them.
Why yes. I am a ray of warm and fuzzy sunshine.

by grover on Nov 30, 2006 10:07 PM PST up reply actions  

For all the reasons Zito
shouldn't be successful in Texas, historically he has done fine pitching there--and that's while pitching to a well above-average lineup. He would improve the Rangers, no question. Not enough to make them contenders, but enough to make them close...
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Nov 30, 2006 10:27 PM PST up reply actions  

Comp
So if he signs with the Rangers tomorrow, what kind of compensation do we get?  The Rangers forfeit their first rounder to Toronto for signing Catalonatto.  But they got one back from Anaheim when they signed away GMJ.  So would the Rangers get to keep that Anaheim pick no matter what, or would they have to forfeit that one with a Zito signing?
Green eyes come from yellow flecks of fatty pigment on a dark background. Some men think a green-eyed woman is exotic. The truth is she's got fat eyes.

by Furious George on Nov 30, 2006 11:31 PM PST reply actions  

Rangers keep the pick from LAA
BUT!

If a team (like Texas) signs 2 Type A free agents than the team that loses the higher rated of the two players earns the 1st round pick. The other team gets Texas' 2nd round pick.

This is assuming, of course, that the Rangers' 1st round pick comes in the second half of Rd 1. Remember, the worst 15 teams (2006 record wise) get to keep their 1st round picks even if they sign a Type A FA.

Why yes. I am a ray of warm and fuzzy sunshine.

by grover on Nov 30, 2006 11:48 PM PST up reply actions  

Z
is going to look at a lot of teams I think.  I wouldn't read much into this.  The more teams that are interested, the higher the offers from the teams he wants to play for (like, perhaps the Mets or Padres -- esp. if they trade Peavy for Manny).  I think we're going to hear a lot of Zito meets with __ rumors before this is all over.  

by CyZito on Dec 1, 2006 7:29 AM PST reply actions  

I wouldn't mind Zito signing with the Rangers
Of course he would be a huge plus for a division rival but the a's would get the highest draft pick possible(16). I think the last time the A's had that pick was when they had compensation from Boston and drafted Swisher. If the Mets were to sign Zito, the A's wouldn't get a first round pick because Alou is rank higher than Zito.

by AsMontreal on Dec 1, 2006 8:56 AM PST reply actions  

I don't think that Zito is interested in Texas
bright lights and big city /= arlington.

If I had to bet I imagine that he would end up with the Mets.

Rickey Henderson: 35, 24, hall of fame!

by Athletics fan and runner on Dec 1, 2006 9:51 AM PST reply actions  

Boras
Zito is interested in whoever will pay him the most money.  Boras will not let him sign a contract with a team that offers one dime less than another team.  That is what you sign up for when you hire Boras as your agent.  Forget anything other than money when it comes to where Zito will go, because nothing else matters.
I'd like to eat my lunch, but Billy just kicked me out of my office.

by BlameChannel53 on Dec 1, 2006 10:30 AM PST up reply actions  

i could only dream
Man i wish Zito would sign in Texas...that way the a's could beat his ass 10-12 times every year for probably 7 years....all at 15 million per. oh, i make myself giddy just thinking about it. nevertheless, although i may dream, this will never happen. Zito WILL be a Met :-(
"If the fans don't come out to the ball park, you can't stop them."- Yogi Berra.

by bigelephant on Dec 1, 2006 1:43 PM PST reply actions  

10-12 times?
He's durable alright, but is he durable enough where the Rangers are going to give him 50-66% of their starts?
"We don't want haddock and chips, we want cod. In cod we trust." --Ghostigital, the pride of Iceland

by Cutthemullet on Dec 2, 2006 10:08 PM PST up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to the SB Nation blog about Oakland Athletics.

Community Guidelines ANcillary Terms

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Aperture_logo_small
Community Prospect List #4
Img_2672_small
Long-Term Outlook

Recent FanPosts

Pumpkin_small
Maybe this is a stupid stats question
Small
A's reportedly sign Cespedes
Unknown_small
Is It Really Worth It: Three Veterans Who May Be Playing Oakland Next Year, But Shouldn't Be
Small
Manny's Contract
Small
fantasy baseball league for A's fans!
Small
NYY Proposal
Small
Roy Oswalt = opportunity
Choice_small
Tom Milone, by the numbers: Maddux, Glavine, Halladay, Radke...
Img_1877_small
Behind Enemy Lines

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >


Front Page Writers

Maya_papi_small Tyler Bleszinski

08-_the_author_small 67MARQUEZ

Josefav2_small danmerqury

Baseball_small baseballgirl

Poochini-butt_in_box_2_small Nico

Img_0653_small dwishinsky

Front Page Writers

Smiley_face_small gigglingone

Venasfans_small OaklandSi

60-minutes-clock_small cuppingmaster

Patpicturebucky2_small YonYonson

Img_3830_small David Fung

Moderators

Photofunia-5c770b_small coffee roaster

Denver_small Colorado Fan

Ls_logo100_small LoneStranger

Thumbs_up_small LongTimeFan

Marty_profile_in_green_small mrod

Img_1877_small Billy Frijoles

Babycomputergeek_small paris7

Img_0115_small Tutu-late