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everybody, it's a Future Shock

All right, I guess it's time to write down how I feel, but I warn you it isn't gonna be pretty or palatable.  If you're happily imbibing snifter after snifter of the Kool-Aid currently being dispensed by the ownership of this organization, itself under the seemingly hypnotic power of a large and faceless computer corporation, then I suggest passing this one by.  Enjoy your refreshments.

Star-divide

I am deeply hurt, simply wounded by all of this, and the Oakland aspect is but one facet of my sense of betrayal and discontent.  The reality is that for me, everything this team and franchise has represented has just been cast away.  The diehard, baseball-breathing Oakland fans, lacking in number but never enthusiasm, cast away. The arguably glorious history of the team in Oakland, cast away. The model efficiency and proletarian dedication to "the little things" that make us competitive against the grotesque injustices perpetrated by the big-spender teams, cast away. The Moneyball approach, essentially cast away.  A sporting event free of the loathesomely intrusive consumerist aspects so prevalent at other venues and really throughout the rapidly-putrifying culture of this country, cast away.  Once we were one of the top 4 teams in the game on the sheer competence of our GM and his assistants and the guile and prowess of our gutsy, working-class-hero type players.  A few decent starting pitching performances and a couple of clutch hits from the big prize, from the mountaintop. So close, and getting there the right way, on our own merits and grind-it-out sense of mastery and purpose.  Now we are about to be relegated to a position as the house band in some computer company Marketing Director's shopping mall fantasy, the Yankees with bytes and bandwidth substituting for TV deals.  Say it ain't so.

The Oakland aspect is obvious, no need to beat it to death.  I live here and treasure this most underdog of cities, forever stuck in the shadows of its glitzy neighbor to the west; a ghetto-fabulous St. Paul but with nicer weather, realer people and a better baseball team than its number-3-tourist-destination-on-Earth Minneapolis across the bridge.  So ironic that the only stadium with a view of Oakland is the Giants' place, now that the Oakland team is abdicating.

One reason to love the team has been the way the ballclub has mirrored the city so well: the grit, the standing up to the big guys with all the guns (think the Black Panthers, or Barbara Lee -- D, Congressional District 9, Oakland -- the lone vote against the war appropriations on Sept. 14th, 2001, birthing the phrase "Barbara Lee speaks for me!"), the falling-down stadium facility with the Black Muslim Bakery fish sandwiches (thanks jeepers)... rarely has the unique, uncommercially unhomogenized flavor of a city come across in its team in such an unfiltered way, right down to the clever, proud-to-be-the-prepared-underdog ad campaigns we have seen in recent years.  Welcome to Oakland, the most diverse urban community in the United States... more Medical Cannabis Dispensories than military recruitment centers.  Never has such a great place to live gotten such a bad rap, largely due to the racism still so prevalent in outsiders' views of Oakland, which they believe is some sort of Terrordome/Mad Max movie with gangs of African-American youths marauding all over.

But there's more than enough blame to go around on the moving-to-Fremont issue, it's not just Wolff, it's so many things: Jerry Brown's idiotic fixation on building upscale-fantasy loft housing that no one will ever live in, Ron Dellums failing to make the A's a campaign issue when doing so might have helped a solution to be reached so they could stay, Robert Bobb (former City Manager and A's advocate) leaving, Al Davis returning and making the city his biz-nitch, the failure of the casual fans to come out for more than just the playoff games these last 6 years, the list goes on and on `til the proverbial break o'dawn.  It was inevitable that for the team to make any money and continue to put a contending, championship-quality product on the field, they couldn't stay here as things stood.  No amount of civic pride or Oakland-allegiance could stop that, and I understand. Even if it really does seem obvious that Wolff wanted to move closer to his beloved San Jose and was gonna do that even if Oakland brought him a plan and the financing to enact it on a silver platter.   For the record I think a carpetbagger's a carpetbagger, and would no more approve or condone Wolff's actions (no matter how seemingly beneficent) than I would (as a left-wing person) vote for Hillary Clinton as a Senator from New York.  I guess I'm a deluded purist/idealist, a throwback to a now-bygone era of integrity-as-raison d'etre.

My biggest problems with this deal, the real sense of betrayal and disgust, come from what the new facility will look like and what the game experience portends to be for the prospective fan.  I guess I must be an old coot, but I loathe cell-phones being used in public places.  I believe technology has its place but that baseball is a sacred analog experience, invented in the 19th century, that shouldn't be subjected to some computer firm's future-shock-inducing profit motive curve.  Laptops and PDAs should not be necessary gear for a day on the green watching a baseball game, they can be optional but not necessary.  I go to a game to watch the game with the eyes I was born with, not to be inundated with electronic selling opportunities every time we score a run. To make these devices a central facet of the in-game experience is to create a second-class citizenship for anyone who for whatever reason does not possess such devices.  No matter how enticing and cool the technology looks as they flash it on giant presentation screens to make you want it more than you do life itself.  When we hit a HR I wanna hug and hi-five the total stranger next to me, not be funneled into a personalized replay-with-ads scenario based on what CDs I bought on Amazon.com last week.

They are talking about seat-specific screens, ones that will detect from your cell phone what products you like and target-advertise you at your seat.  Jesus Christ.  What's that, personal mobile spyware for a new generation?  You don't get enough unwanted spam e-mail at home already, now they want you to be subject to somebody's carefully-constructed marketing moment every second you're on the premises?  I say fuck that.  Fuck it.  No way.

The 200-foot video screen outside the place sounds lovely.  Gee, let's wait in traffic for hours for a vaunted, special opportunity to watch more TV.  The idea seems to be to intentionally create scarcity with the tiniest seating capacity in MLB, then exploit the scarcity without having to actually sell the people you have lured actual seats.  Maybe they won't watch the game at all, maybe you can just drop them down via trapdoor into The Cirkus of Cisco Systems Purchasing Playground, where they can demo every last product made by your company until their fingers fall off.  And, to top it all off, they're talking about PSLs, which is really short for Perfectly Stupid Lemmings, in reference to the kind of person who will willingly pay for the right to pay for something.

What this all tastes like is the next logical step in the corporate takeover of everything on Earth, which began long ago but saw its most recent Grand Quantum Leap Forward in sports when the stadiums went from being named for the cities they were in to being named for corporations which had purchased the "naming rights".  Now, we get the next wave, where the identities of the team and the sponsor are so intertwined, and the products so cross-hybridized, that there is no "team" anymore, just a meta-logo like when McDonalds' Happy Meals have Star Wars aliens on them whenever the latest Star Wars film comes out.  If you look at the logo they put out at the site, "Future Home of Cisco Field" is predominant and the A's logo is at the bottom, more like an afterthought.  The house band at the mall, the shrine to themselves these Cisco people are planning to build with an incidental baseball team as their beard.  People were so afraid the A's would have to move to Las Vegas, but now it appears as if Cisco has brought Vegas, or at least its garish, consumption-as-all-pervading-focus-of-existence aesthetic, to Fremont.

Whatever happened to the sanctity of hallowed tradition, like baseball used to represent, can anyone tell me?  Whatever happened to the concept of "ill-gotten gains," and how they were to be avoided even as they tried with all their power to entice the uncorrupted?  This little project may double the A's payroll, but are they even going to be the "A's" anymore? Or some Frankenstein monster that appears to wear the Athletics' uniforms but with Cisco's brain and corporate-competitive muscle?  Like the Yankees but with snazzy, bleeping computer gear instead of a TV network deal supplying the largesse needed for Empire.  I don't approve of Empire, because it inevitably leads to a fatal imbalance of distributed resources and situational power, and I don't want to be one, or root for one.  The very prospect scares me.  Away.

Friends, I know a lot of you can't or won't agree, and I understand.  All things must pass. But if this represents the future than I don't wanna go.  Count me out.  Especially if they are gonna add insult to injury and let the product suffer until they leave Oakland, then bulk it back up again with the addition of big-money talent to go with the big-money facility when the move finally happens. Based on what I am sensing (who's our DH now, Brandon Buckley?), I can't be entirely assured that isn't the plan right now.

I'm sorry, it tears my heart into a million pieces, but I feel like I may be done with the A's.

"There's nothing real in the world anymore," someone once said, or something like that. Say it ain't so.

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Some commonsense from the Heartland
From where I sit...  in North Dakota.  Maybe the team wouldn't be moving if more people actually went to the games.

Can you blame a businessman for making a business decision?

If you guys in Oakland could fill the seats, maybe they wouldn't have to cover them up with a tarp.

I know what I just said is going to piss more than a few people off... but that's the way I see it from a distance.

I love the A's and will no matter where they end up.

by brenarlo on Nov 16, 2006 3:58 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

The Yankees fill the seats.
Why are they building a new stadium?  The new stadium's construction has very little to do with attendance.
"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Nov 16, 2006 4:08 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The Yankees are building a stadium..
...because the city will pay for most of it.

Heck, in that case, wouldn't you?

"It's time to blow this team up." - Oaktoon, July 2006

by Ozzz on Nov 16, 2006 5:58 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Sure I would.
But it doesn't mean that attendance is the reason why the A's are building a new stadium.  It's to increase revenues, of which attendance is only a relatively minor part.
"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Nov 16, 2006 6:00 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You're putting the cart before the horse.
The move is the important thing, as it opens up the fanbase to a second city. The new stadium is a necessity because of that move.

It ain't the other way around, though a new stadium in Oakland would have been enough to keep them around a while.

"It's time to blow this team up." - Oaktoon, July 2006

by Ozzz on Nov 16, 2006 6:08 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Actually the other MLB teams will pay for most of
because stadium construction costs are a luxury tax deduction.
"Even if you know the deck is stacked in your favor, you still have to have the discipline to trust the math and the cojones to go to the ATM." BB

by green star oakland on Nov 16, 2006 6:02 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

that does piss me off a bit, but ...
... not because of any wound to my Bay Area pride, but because it's a really stupid assertion.

Do you blame consumers for allowing Doc Grinspoon's Patented Frog-Spittle Liniment to linger on the shelves at the apothecary? Do you blame consumers for allowing Acme Powdered Wigs Amalgamated, LLC to fall into receivership? Do you blame consumers for allowing fleets of 'sploding Pintos (or crumpling Corsairs) to rust on the sales lots? Do you blame consumers for not actually buying Mark Halperin's new book?

God I miss old Van Halen, splits and leopard pants -- Blez @('.')@

by monkeyball on Nov 16, 2006 4:24 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Hee hee
I'm never happier than when I see Halperin ridiculed.

by mikeA on Nov 16, 2006 4:34 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

any comment that ridicules Halperin
is a damn fine comment, IMO.
Do we really need an excuse for more cellphone usage at baseball games?

by emperor nobody on Nov 16, 2006 4:37 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I blame Ralph Nader for it all!
Just think about what he did to the cute Corvair!

by LilAnnieOaktown on Nov 16, 2006 7:05 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Never mind the Corvair
I blame Nader for some other things.
"No one really knows whether Geren is a Yes-man. I have a sneaking suspicion he's more of an Anderson Wakeman Bruford and Howe-man." ~ monkeyball

by Poppy on Nov 17, 2006 12:07 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Ralph Nader killed my father with a spork
People wanted Washington because he would do a better job of establishing the run. -- andeux @('.')@

by monkeyball on Nov 17, 2006 10:09 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I believe Bob Dylan said it best:
"You'd better start swimmin' or you'll sink like a stone cause the times they are a' changin'"

by wordfromthewise on Nov 16, 2006 4:10 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

this whole thing
seems a lot more like Randy Newman's "Sail Away," in which Africans are enticed by slavetraders to board the ship to America with the promise of a life of ease and leisure, then it does like "The Times They Are a-Changin'," where "the first one now will later be last".
Do we really need an excuse for more cellphone usage at baseball games?

by emperor nobody on Nov 16, 2006 4:25 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The thing is
This website is pretty much divided between being positive about it and negative.  And these are die hard A's fans who have thoroughly enjoyed going to games in Oakland just like I have.  So imagine what the casual fan thinks about it? They must be so friggin' excited. You can almost hear fans being created as we speak.  And I'm sorry but the rest of the folks who resist the change:  you are a small minority and you're going to get left in the dust. Its going to happen.  Its inevitable. Hang on to the hatred if you want but its only going to fall on deaf ears.

And while I agree that those fans are coming on board for superficial reasons, and it sucks, but they are still fans. And more importantly they are PAYING fans who will actually come to the ballpark 5 games a year as opposed to watching it on TV.  

In case you haven't realized it: money motivates people.  And you know what?  I am one to believe that there is nothing wrong with admitting that.  Its a measure of advancement of the human race, the ability to survive, and it is a measure of success.  I didn't write the rules, I only play by them.

The owners and players play for money. Thats the name of the game.  Winning is important to, but the ability to do that depends on how much money is involved.  Therefor money is the driving factor.  If you're not ok with that they go watch little leage games.  But if you want the best you gotta get with the times.

by wordfromthewise on Nov 16, 2006 4:49 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

They won't be FANS, just curiosity seekers.
and there is a difference.  Don't insult the rest of us by calling them FANS.  Ya, they'll pay their dollars to sit in the park, but will they really be rooting on a team they hold in their hearts?  uh...NOOOOOOO

by LilAnnieOaktown on Nov 16, 2006 7:08 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yes,
so, why haven't these so-called fans/parents of future fans come to the Coliseum in the years they've been there?

by LilAnnieOaktown on Nov 16, 2006 8:53 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

mommy, daddy
let's go see a football game...i'm bored...i wanna go home...wahhhhhhhh....

by LilAnnieOaktown on Nov 17, 2006 5:38 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Wordtothewise???
Sorry, but maybe you need to change your screen name, or whatever the hell you call that smug, inaccurate sign you have hung on yourself. This really isn't aboutbaseball. It's about brainwashing, and marketing, and institutional racism . . . the building blocks of our democracy. Actually, baseball used to be a way to sort of escape fromall that. Now Cisco and the others have even taken that respite over . . .

by froggiethegremlin on Nov 17, 2006 8:39 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

So what you're saying is ...
as with just about any group on just about any issue -- some people are on one side and some people are on the other? Well that is a pearl! Thank you oh so much for sharing your wisdom with us.

Oh, but wait, there is more. All of this wisdom from which we might learn, I'm thrilled!

The casual fan must be friggin excited. Yes, oh yes, they must be. I'm absolutely certain that they are just ecstatic about the possibility that a team that they have never bothered to follow might have a new stadium in four years. I can't imagine how that this news could be anywhere except the forefront of their collective mind. Oh, you are ever so wise. Thank you, thank you!!!

And you're obviously right that it would be simply foolish to have any thoughts or feelings that aren't in lockstep with the organization. Clearly we should care about nothing else besides Lew Wolff's best interests.

Money motivates people? Wow, that's brilliant, let  me write that down. Wait, I already did, great!

Players and owners are motivated by money? Sure, that follows logic, they are people after all.

Winning is important? OK, I'll buy that. Good premise.

The ability to win is based on money. Definitely. Just look at the A's and Twins. Neither of them were last in the league in payroll.
Look, none of the bottom 10 teams made the playoffs:
Top 10: 3 teams (NYY, NYM, LAD)
Mid 10: 5 teams (StL, Det, SDO, Oak, Min)
Bot 10: 0 teams
The evidence is clear -- only top payroll teams make the playoffs!

You're right, if we want the best, we need to get with the times. Ok, I'll go be a Giants fan and you can go be an Angels fans for the next 36-60 months ... then we can come back and be A's fans again once they have gotten with the times too! That's a great idea, you're so wise!

by devo on Nov 17, 2006 10:34 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'll only be a fan of ...
... the team that offers me the largest marginal return on my emotional investment.
People wanted Washington because he would do a better job of establishing the run. -- andeux @('.')@

by monkeyball on Nov 17, 2006 12:55 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

well then, perhaps the Pirates ...
are the team for you ... zero emotional investment, combined with any return at all, will leave you with an infinite return to investment ratio ...

by devo on Nov 17, 2006 12:59 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

'tis a Pirate's life fer me, then!
People wanted Washington because he would do a better job of establishing the run. -- andeux @('.')@

by monkeyball on Nov 17, 2006 3:43 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yo Ho, Yo Ho
We pillage plunder, we rifle and loot.
Drink up me 'earties, yo ho.
We kidnap and ravage and don't give a hoot.
Drink up me 'earties, yo ho.

by devo on Nov 17, 2006 3:49 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

what was the pirate's favorite movie rated?
ARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!
Do we really need an excuse for more cellphone usage at baseball games?

by emperor nobody on Nov 17, 2006 4:57 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Nice Reply
That was a complete Fire Joe Morgan-shutdown post, if I ever saw one.

by H3liCat on Nov 17, 2006 6:39 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Blah Blah Blah...
Sounds like a bunch of hippy rant to me...

My post doesn't look pretty but at least I have the stones to tell it like it is and not be afraid that a few idealists can make fun of it without really making a point of their own.  

Like I said...go watch Little League games if you don't like how it is.  I'm pretty much done here

by wordfromthewise on Nov 20, 2006 9:49 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

That would be ...
a bunch of hippy rantings ...

but I agree, wisdom and grammer by no means go hand-in-hand.

Are you accusing me of not "telling it like it is"?

I apologize if it was lost in my attempt at wit -- but if it was at all unclear, I think you are full of fecal matter.

I certainly am not afraid of a few deep thinkers making fun of that.

A's fans are not a monolyth. Some of us believe certain things -- others believe other things. Personally, I believe that I should support things that are in my best interest, regardless of what it might mean to Lew Wolff's bottom line. I also feel free to express my opinion, even if the A's have made their decision and do not care to include me in it. You think that as A's fans, we should kiss ownership's wallets, regardless of what they might be advocating. You think that once the team has spoken we all have an obligation to get in line. That's fine, you can think that. I disagree.

But I sure do appreciate you having the stones to risk some idealistic wrath in response to your ever so brave stance.

by devo on Nov 20, 2006 1:19 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

This statement is kind of what I'm talking about:

"I should support things that are in my best interest"

I just believe that people are more or less the same whether you own a baseball team or if you are one of the many fans who attend baseball games.  Whether you make $20,000 per year or $20,000,000.  Sure some of the details are different in regards to up-bringing, etc, but we are all governed by the same biological need to survive and that is the most powerful force in any living being.

You put some words in my mouth, so I'll just clarify: I believe that, like all sane people,  Lew Wolfe has his own best interest in mind first and foremost.  But I do think that he cares about the sport of baseball and he cares about the fortune of the Athletics.  I think that his personal goals happen to run parallel to those of the team overall.  And in that sense it makes ME happy, because its MY part of the country and MY team.  I understand it makes YOU upset because its YOUR city that they are moving from.  So in the end I guess we'll have to agree to disagree, I just want to keep as many fans as possible in this move.  

If he were totally driven by money and greed, I'm sure he could have made a ton of money just through real estate development in an underdeveloped part of the country, or he could have simply moved the team to a different state. But he didn't.  

I'll apologize in advance for any grammatical errors I may have made.  I care about the message, not necessarily the details.

by wordfromthewise on Nov 20, 2006 2:20 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Hmm ...
I kinda don't think that the A's are that central to anyone's actual survival. Regardless of what they do, I'll live, so will you, so will Lew.

I care about what enhances my experience as a fan. Winning helps, so does being an underdog, so does having quality guys and so does having the team represent Oakland. Things that don't enhance my experience as a fan include: fancy high tech ballparks, more limited seating capacities and having a high payroll.

I see this move, overall hurting my experience as a fan. That said, I understand that Lew's a business man and they money flows through those things that don't enhance my experience and it doesn't as much through the things that do. I certainly don't begrudge him his profits.

Bottom line is, I think your basic feeling -- that this is the inevitable way things are going -- is a reasonable one.

What I object to is your assertion that there is something wrong with having reservations about that -- that there is something backwards about not jumping for joy with whatever the A's propose.

The only benefit I see myself deriving from this move is that it ensures the A's don't move further away. I accept that something like this is inevitable. I don't disagree that it is. But that doesn't mean that I have to like it.

by devo on Nov 20, 2006 2:35 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Fair enough
But just so you know...the A's are central to my survival... :)

by wordfromthewise on Nov 20, 2006 2:59 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree wholeheartedly.
The only thing that will save my fandom will be if they keep the name.

I just don't understand why "the total fan experience" has to do with all these bells and whistles off the field.

Why does it take a whole new village to create revenues? Because the players play for ginormous amounts of money, and owners are greedy. Lew Wolff's side remarks throughout the press conference were some of the first I had ever heard, period (such as when the Cisco guy introduced him to the "for just $150, fans can have their picture taken from one of the in-stadium cameras and put on the big screen! What dyou think of that, Lew?" ..."I like the $150 part.")

Plus, they gotta make a profit EVERY year. That means, if they made money last year, they gotta make MORE money this year. Rinse and repeat until the city's fans reach saturation of the wallet, then pull up stakes and go to the next town.

I don't blame the A's for this move, I blame the City of Oakland for not placing a value on the team. Did you happen to catch the local news the night of the press conf? Ignacio de la Fuente was in a local elementary school getting his picture taken so as to be seen as "this is what I think is important for the city" ... as if the many A's charities never amounted to anything for Oakland. His actual quotes about the team leaving were the worst too, all nice clippable soundbites that absolve him of any responsibility or opinion on the matter. Problem was the station (KTVU i think) played his quotes as he said them, and they made no sense at all in sequence.

Anyway... I am mad about the whole thing right now too. From the look of our prospective manager and DH, it just seems like everyone is abandoning ship. Hard not to want to do the same, it's like the writing is on the wall.

by popcornjames on Nov 16, 2006 4:17 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

A ghetto-fabulous St. Paul with nicer weather
Beautiful phrase.  I've been digging every word you write on this move.

This isn't much against the harsh consumptivist tide, but even if the plan exceeds Lew's wildest dreams, the A's won't reach the Yankee/BoSox/Dodger strata.  More in the Blue Jay/Phillie neighborhood.  

"Ever get the feeling you've been cheated?" --Johnny Rotten

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Nov 16, 2006 4:23 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

WAAHHHHHH!
We already know how you "feel" about this. You've posted it in any number of diaries. Did you need to write a book?  If you don't want to be a fan of the A's anymore so be it.  There will be thousands of new fans to take your place.

by Ray Kinsella on Nov 16, 2006 4:26 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

yes, thousands of new fans
all asking the same question:

"Did we score a touchdown yet?  Oh wait, that's my boss on line 2."

Do we really need an excuse for more cellphone usage at baseball games?

by emperor nobody on Nov 16, 2006 4:35 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Did you need to read and comment on it?
"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Nov 16, 2006 4:38 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Holy Crap

...what a horrible comment.  
I don't find it any fun...No, not any longer. -- Will Shatter

by 66th Hegenberger on Nov 16, 2006 5:18 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

So the empathectomy was a success then ?
"Even if you know the deck is stacked in your favor, you still have to have the discipline to trust the math and the cojones to go to the ATM." BB

by green star oakland on Nov 16, 2006 5:52 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm Sorry...
emperor nobody and anybody else that feels that I'm not being empathetic to them about the move.

I've been an A's fan since 1968 and the threat of them moving to another state has been a possibility for a good portion of the time they have been in Oakland.

I'm just relieved that they won't be moving out of state and I'm excited about a new stadium and the future of the team.

by Ray Kinsella on Nov 16, 2006 6:39 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Figures you'd believe:
"Build it and they will come". ;)

by Brian in 317 on Nov 17, 2006 7:11 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

two very minor quibbles
Bobb was pushed, not jumped as you seem to imply.

And not to get all David Horowitz, but you might want to rethink that whole Black Panthers-as-a-selling-point-for-Oakland thing.  

Otherwise, while I don't line up with you 100% on every single sentiment, it's all marvelously expressed.

God I miss old Van Halen, splits and leopard pants -- Blez @('.')@

by monkeyball on Nov 16, 2006 4:28 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

you better believe the Panthers are
a selling point for Oakland... for Black people, and anyone else who wants to see social justice taken into the hands of the poor and dispossessed people who get the ass-end of this wretched system every time.

Yes, can you tell that I can see the exact spot across the street where Huey P. Newton was killed in a crack-deal gone wrong... from my bedroom window?

Do we really need an excuse for more cellphone usage at baseball games?

by emperor nobody on Nov 16, 2006 4:33 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

don't get me wrong ...
... there was definitely a social malady for which the BPs offered themselves at certain points as a legitimate cure.

And there were lots of soldiers who believed in the siren song of the recruiting call.

And J Edgar and Ed Meese and their minions most assuredly engaged in illegal and unethical acts in their crusade against the BPs.

But when you get right down to it, the organization was a confidence game -- and a heavily armed con game at that.

God I miss old Van Halen, splits and leopard pants -- Blez @('.')@

by monkeyball on Nov 16, 2006 5:21 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

We need a new and revised...
ten point plan, which will keep the means of production and baseball in the community.

by kvn on Nov 16, 2006 5:50 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Death to Realism!
Death to the demoness Allegra Geller!
People wanted Washington because he would do a better job of establishing the run. -- andeux @('.')@

by monkeyball on Nov 17, 2006 10:11 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

satirist
Like Ravi Shankar. I'm like three days too late.

by kvn on Nov 18, 2006 11:50 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

crack deal gone wrong
must have been the CIA, maybe barbara lee can call for an investigation.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Nov 18, 2006 11:28 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

black panthers
"you might want to rethink that whole Black Panthers-as-a-selling-point-for-Oakland thing."

while i probably disagree with 95% of the stuff they did or believed in, i disagree.  
we glorify/admire many people in this country who may not have been wonderful (bonnie and clyde, billy the kid, etc).  america loves rebels and outlaws.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Nov 18, 2006 11:45 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

It's raining salt,
cue the bonfire if Bonds signs.

by southofcruiseamerica on Nov 16, 2006 4:31 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Emperor, sir.
I'm really sorry about the pain you're experiencing with these changes.  You're right in that the change is emblematic of the times.

But if you enjoy the game itself--the tradition, the history, the strategy and skill--don't let those making these changes take that away from you.  That's the one thing that can't be bought or sold.

"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Nov 16, 2006 4:41 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Yawn
there's simply no club like the white elephant club

by walk off bunt on Nov 16, 2006 4:50 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I think it's really unfortunate
that people would come in here to insult the diary's author for expressing (eloquenty) why this move is such a painful experience for them.
"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Nov 16, 2006 5:16 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I'll only repeat
...what I said in an earlier diary:

Those of you who are crapping on emperor for writing this are really, truly, tragically fucking lame.

This is the biggest story to hit the A's since 1968.  Deal with it, you troll jerks.

This is really turning into a shitty blog.

I don't find it any fun...No, not any longer. -- Will Shatter

by 66th Hegenberger on Nov 16, 2006 5:20 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

To be fair
and as someone who supports your point of view on this, the insults really aren't necessary.  Take the high road, man.
"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Nov 16, 2006 5:23 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

there's no need to defend me
I fully expected to be flamed to a crisp for writing this.  Any time you open your heart and try to voice true feelings amid a culture of phoniness and insubstantial discourse, replete as it is with emphasis on the purely quantitative to the growing exclusion of qualitative judgement, you'd best expect to get ripped by the system's most ardent defenders, who are, ironically, usually its most victimized.
Do we really need an excuse for more cellphone usage at baseball games?

by emperor nobody on Nov 16, 2006 5:29 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Sorry...
...I just can't do that anymore.  I can't stand still and get pummelled by these people.  Last I looked, there were 215 people who responded to the "moving" poll as "angry, Oakland is where the A's should be".  It's not like there's only 10 or 15 people who feel this way, and I'm just sick to death of being put down about it.

And jeepers, I don't know ya, and though deep down I know you're right, I just can't do the high road thing anymore on this.

I don't find it any fun...No, not any longer. -- Will Shatter

by 66th Hegenberger on Nov 16, 2006 5:31 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

A little bit of both
I think A's fans have to be thankful that the ownership did not move the A's out-of-state, and as far as location moves go, Fremont is very, very close. Fremont is a location that will allow for a fantastic looking new stadium, and is located in a large market with a sports void. In this sense, the Fremont move is great.

However, I agree with you that there is a very, very negative aspect about the move. For one, the public transportation is absent, and although it may be developed a bit more, no public transportation means high school kids and anyone else can't go the game whenever they please. This is very bad. It reduces your market, intentionally disregarding the people who can't afford public transportation, despite the fact that they give the Coliseum the intangibles that it enjoyed.
Without public transportation, you won't get as many energetic kids, regular visitors, and perhaps not the icons, like the banjo guy. Not to mention that at this point in our society, what with congestion, suburbanization, and the oil crisis, it is nothing less than backwards to move a stadium from a location with ideal public transportation to one without any.
If that's not enough for you, all A's fans should be offended by the plan to create a 34,000 seat stadium, the smallest in baseball. The sole reason  for a small stadium is, as you stated, to create artificial scarcity as to raise ticket prices. There is no motive other than money, naturally, but the cost is the fans' experience. By limiting seating capacity and focusing on corporate suites, Wolff and co. are flat-out denying a huge portion of fans, particularly the hardcore ones, from coming to games and experiencing A's baseball at its fullest. While I could go to the coliseum at a moment's notice, for $10, I will not be able to see the A's play in Cisco field hardly ever. This is NOT a temporary problem. 34,000 seats simply says: sorry folks, but we decided that it is better for the franchise if you don't show up anymore, unless you can afford expensive season tickets or work the right company.
Personally, the idea of bringing people to the ballgame so they can walk around outside the stadium to shop is very unattractive, as well, but I don't expect a lot of people to relate to that.

34,000 seats is offensive to the fanbase.

by H3liCat on Nov 16, 2006 5:25 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

applause
We should start a support group for the blue collar, walk-up fans, because you might as well be me.

Get out of my head! ;-)

by popcornjames on Nov 17, 2006 12:31 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

No. That's my point!
I didn't need to read it, and I stopped reading after the first few paragraphs because I have read it on every other diary about the move.

I get it!  The "evil" Lew Wolf and "Cisco Systems" corporation are lying to all of us and are out to make a profit.  And "emperor nobody" feels betrayed and hurt that the A's are moving 20 miles south to Fremont.  And that the game he loves is changing with the times we live in.

I understand his frustration.  My football team moved 350 MILES away to Los Angeles in 1981.  I decided to still be a fan even though I despised the move.

And yes I wanted to comment on it since this is still America... at least until, if or when, the Barbara Lee's of the country take over. God help us all.

by Ray Kinsella on Nov 16, 2006 5:26 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

"I didn't need to read it"
Life is so good, so easy when you have the luxury of ignoring that which challenges your most deeply-held beliefs, isn't it?  God Bless America.
Do we really need an excuse for more cellphone usage at baseball games?

by emperor nobody on Nov 16, 2006 5:31 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

America is the land of taunts and insults?
I must have missed that part of the Constitution.
"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Nov 16, 2006 5:34 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

It's called freedom of speech
Is this the land of taunts and insults you speak of?

"Those of you who are crapping on emperor for writing this are really, truly, tragically fucking lame."

"Deal with it, you troll jerks"

by Ray Kinsella on Nov 16, 2006 5:45 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

And you saw my comment on that.
Freedom of speech doesn't mean you shouldn't think about what you say.
"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Nov 16, 2006 5:48 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I suggest you read it
Emperor may read a bit conspiratorial, but there's a lot of truth in what he's saying.
This is about business, not baseball.
Accordingly, it will benefit business, not baseball. Revenue from expensive seats, shopping malls, and real estate, at the expense of the fan experience.

by H3liCat on Nov 16, 2006 5:37 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

By the way...
..."There's nothing real in the world anymore!"...What a fantastic way to end the diary....it crosses over from another sport, but it's a perfect reference.

 I recommended this diary, then accidentally clicked "unrecommend" when I tried to see who else recommended it.  

So here's a verbal recommendation.

Go Oakland.

I don't find it any fun...No, not any longer. -- Will Shatter

by 66th Hegenberger on Nov 16, 2006 5:35 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

66th and Emperor.
Understood--I'll stop trying to mediate here.  I hope you both remain A's fans, because I wouldn't mind having an overpriced beer with you guys that my cellphone told the ballpark I wanted.
"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Nov 16, 2006 5:37 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

You got it.

I'll bring the credit units, or monetary digits, or whatever will pass for money in the ballpark of the future.
I don't find it any fun...No, not any longer. -- Will Shatter

by 66th Hegenberger on Nov 16, 2006 5:40 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

What are you talking about?
The credit is automatically deducted from your consumer ID Chip

by H3liCat on Nov 16, 2006 5:43 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The chip
Will be implanted by the Cisco ticket taker upon entering your first game.

by billyball1981 on Nov 17, 2006 3:06 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Ha!

Okay, you're invited too.
I don't find it any fun...No, not any longer. -- Will Shatter

by 66th Hegenberger on Nov 16, 2006 5:44 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Quick! To the front page!
There's a new manager to try to fire!
Ho hum. Just another day for the OAKLAND ATHLETICS OF AWESOME! ~Kyli

by baseballgirl on Nov 16, 2006 5:49 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Try?
Do NOT try.  DO.

Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting

"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Nov 16, 2006 5:55 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

We all just want to hear ourselves talk
Its not like there is any convincing going on here.  I just like the A's.  Thats all I care about

by wordfromthewise on Nov 16, 2006 6:30 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Yes and No
Yours is one of the few comments that doesn't have a lot to say.
Emperor has got an important message.

by H3liCat on Nov 16, 2006 6:38 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yea Yea
we all have an improtant message...

by wordfromthewise on Nov 16, 2006 8:28 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm sad...
And not sad for the team, who will move onto greener pastures, with a new state-of-the-art stadium, profitable corporate deals, higher payroll, new wave of fans, etc.  I'm sad for Oakland.

I'm sad for the Oakland kids who won't have a ballpark to call home over the summer, or to relax at when playing hooky from school.  I'm sad for the stadium workers, many who have been there for years, who won't have jobs during 6 months of the year.  

I'm sad that the city took the team for granted.  I'm sad finding a suitable Oakland ballpark site wasn't a priority for city officials.  I'm sad that Oakland won't have that uniting factor, Our Team, to rally behind in Octobers to come.  

I'm just sad for Oakland.

by high street on Nov 16, 2006 6:57 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

great great post
I'm so with you I could of sworn I wrote your diary in my subconscious.  

by Brian in 317 on Nov 17, 2006 7:18 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Very nice
While I can't say I agree with it, you put some thought into this diary.

About the huge screen behind the ballpark, have you been to Petco Park? They kind of gleaned the idea from them, and I think it's great. For $5, you get a "Park Pass," and it's perfect for families with young kids - a demographic that the A's really need to target (Little League/Youth Group days notwithstanding). They have a wiffleball field, which is really popular with the kids, and a big grassy hill. You can see game on the screen, and you can still stuff your face with hot dogs and hear the roar of the crowd. I was pretty excited when I saw that Cisco Field would have it.

I feel for you on the Oakland tradition. Many of the "die-hard baseball-breathing A's fans," grew up with Rudi, Reggie, Stew, Eck, Rickey and so on. I totally respect and love the history that the A's have had in Oakland.

In full disclosure, I have to say that I have never seen the aforementioned players live, nor have I been to a game at the pre-Mt. Davis Coliseum. But I sure as hell love baseball all the same as those who were able to see such amazing sights.

From my house in East Contra Costa County, it's an hour and a half trip (driving to BART + riding on BART) to the Coliseum, and I don't mind it at all. I have no problem going another half an hour or so further to Fremont.

Yes, I know there will be a lot of corporate people who couldn't tell Antonio Perez from Eric Chavez. There will be a lot of technological stuff all around. But that doesn't mean you have to make use of it. I'm sure (at least I sure as hell hope) these screens are in front of your seat won't be too intrusive. So my seat knows that I love garlic fries. I'll get up and buy them when I'm good and ready. If you don't like all the techno stuff... just ignore it and cheer your ass off.

Sorry if I kind of went off on a tangent, just wanted to point some things out.

BigLeagueChoo: rerish noooo

by JLaff on Nov 17, 2006 7:46 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Very important, very, very well written . . .
Don't be disheartened Emperor Nobody! You are talking about the truth and this is hard for a lot people who have been brainwashed and made market-ready. Many of us out there are in recovery, having believed in the constitutional principle of separation of baseball and ruthless thievery until it was too late,and appreciate the fresh air and the light of day you bring. Keep it up!! A lot of the skeptics, even some of the fascists, will come around if we persist in representing reality, whether it's about Cisco's plans for a new world headquarters, i.e., Cisco Field, or the unworkable mechanics of Bobby Crosby's swing. If you're interested, please see my current diary post, "Crisco Field." If nothing else, you will find additional support and optimism in the comments from others whose neurons are still relatively free to explore different ideas than those of their techie tormentors. . .

by froggiethegremlin on Nov 17, 2006 9:00 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

The A's are Dead! Long Live Nobody!
The very best diary I've ever read here -- and whether you hate or love the move, a beautiful and heartbreaking tribute to baseball itself.  Better than John Kinsella's tripey "Shoeless Joe," to be sure.  Thanks, Nobody!  This should really be published somewhere -- maybe I'll scout out possible venues.  Corporate need requires not just a mobile workforce of poor immigrants across national borders, but even demands that wealthy organizations (and the A's are wealthy) be mobile enough to respond to the shifting demands of the market.  All you folks citing Dylan as voicing a threat to those who would dare resist or speak against pure corporate greed are more clueless than I thought possible.  The targeted stadium ads are straight out of dystopian science fiction (ever see "Minority Report"?), and the assertion by Wooooolf that we have all been "rooting for laundry" is an absolute insult to us and to the A's wearing that laundry.  Thomas wasn't laundry; he was a player we learned over the course of a season to appreciate as a team mate....As for high-fiving the total stranger next to you, maybe in Fremont we can simply wirelessly text-message the complete stranger next to us -- or in Alaska, the Dominican Republic, or Atlanta -- an emoticon of a high-five.  
"Is this heaven? No, it's the f'ing suburbs."

by LAXile on Nov 17, 2006 9:19 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Arguably the best diary I've seen here.
Recommending this just once is as much of an insult to you as the A's leaving your hometown.  If it's any consolation, this is one of the best pieces I've read, anywhere.  Well fucking done.
"We don't want haddock and chips, we want cod. In cod we trust." --Ghostigital, the pride of Iceland

by Cutthemullet on Nov 18, 2006 12:13 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Awesome, nobody
I can't hold a candle to your writing skills, which is fine, I'll try not to come off dumb ;-).

As someone who makes his living off of the "information age" directly, Cisco, I can't get too much traction arguing against the march of technology in your personal space.  And being only 30 years old, I can't really relate to "the good old days" you wrote about.

But, if I may, a juvenile suggestion.  Go to the games at the new park, check it out.  But bring a mini cell phone jammer to silently voice your displeasure with the mobile'ness of it all.

"so... I'll take that as 'none of your business'" ~ ArakSOT

by eamb on Nov 18, 2006 1:38 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

What nonsense
Look, I appreciate your love for the team, but jesus christ stop romanticizing the Oakland and the Coliseum

(And just so none of you think I just don't get it or I'm some kind of newbie, I went to the first A's game ever at the Coiseum as a seven year old. I've gone for the next thirty-eight years. I own season tickets. I love taking my kids. I love Oakland and its fans.)

All right, my parenthetical disclaimer aside, I just don't see what's the big deal. The A's aren't going anywhere. They're not even leaving the county. They're moving down the street.

Their current stadium isn't particularly special. It isn't made for baseball and it doesn't generate the revenue to compete in the future.

All of you should be celebrating the fact that we will now likely have this team here forever. That is great fucking news. All of you should be celebrating that the team will likely have more money and be more competitive. That's great fucking news, too.

And the new stadium itself? Look, I vote democratic, my father was a union man, and I even listen to KPFA. But, for god's sake, stop demonizing the new field. It's just stupid. Just so full of pointless hate. I have no doubt that I will go to the new Cisco Field with my children and have a great time. I will go for the baseball game and the team. Whatever else is there, so what.

Going on and on about how this is all so awful, about how the team you love is staying in the area and getting a new stadium is awful betrays a monumental blindness.

by RLangford on Nov 18, 2006 2:50 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

okay
but can we romanticize crack deals gone wrong?
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Nov 18, 2006 11:29 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

bye-bye Oakland, hello Pacific Rim and beyond
The A's aren't just moving down the street. They are moving to a completely different neighborhood. Like, from 66th Ave. to Wall Street. And they are taking with them the capital that was acquired in Oakland, mainly through the work and attendance of many here, and leveraging it into something very different and exponentially larger. This is much different than even what happened in the moves from Philadelphia and K.C.  As painful and ruthless as those larcenies were, they were lateral moves, taking the same business and setting up shop in a different town. But now the A's are being transformed from a somewhat community-based, modestly profitable, relatively independently held, well-to-do family business into the anchor tenant for a massive land and development deal, and, probably most importantly, the world headquarters for Cisco. The A's will now play the same role for Cisco that everyone recognizes that football does for Cal or Ohio State in marketing themselves. Exept Cisco and Silicon Valley are much more adept and resourceful at, and interested in, pulling the wool over our eyes than UC. Lew Wolff, the project manager for this phase of the deal, tipped his hand when he brought in frat bro Bud Selig last week, who had fleeced the people of Milwaukee for the bill for Miller Field--and has run interference for most of the 21 recent previous new stadium mega-capers throughout MLB. If you want to look the other way, that's your business, as they say in America. But don't kid yourself. This isn't mainly a baseball deal. or something for the fans to be giddy about. No more than your KPFA and the Democratic Party of Hillary and Nancy (and Lew?)are about fairness and justice for all, not just their chosen few.    

by froggiethegremlin on Nov 18, 2006 5:36 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

it was explained to me over ale
at a pub this evening about how during the dot-com boom all the major computer firms slotted tons of their money into real estate deals, purchasing parcels of land that they planned to develop or sell to developers much later.  When the dot-bomb bust happened, many of these companies were stuck with large swaths of their capital assets stuck in undeveloped tracts of empty land that they never had the chance to do anything with because the boom-to-bust cycle only took 5 years to happen.

Apparently Cisco was the largest of these companies, getting stuck with acres and acres of land along I-880, in the South Bay, and, that's right, in Fremont.  What my ale companion was saying is that this stadium deal is Cisco's way of lessening the loss they were incurring with the untouched land by hanging it on Wolff and the A's to fit much of the bill to develop it whilst they get a Cisco-theme-park disguised as a baseball stadium.

Ouch.  Now I feel even sicker, somebody get me a bucket.

Do we really need an excuse for more cellphone usage at baseball games?

by emperor nobody on Nov 19, 2006 1:10 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Wow. Deep and pointless
I won't remember a word of what you said in thirty minutes because--like KPFA--it's so full of lame conspiracy theorizing.

Yeah right, this is a more significant move than going across country. Except I can still go to games and enjoy media coverage and enjoy local radio coverage.

Gee, those aren't really significant differences are they?

Get ahold of yourself. The A's remain in the area and will be more competitive. They get a beautiful new stadium. But wait, oh no, a corporation is involved. Who gives a shit. What, do you think the team is selling its soul? Are you so delusional that you somehow think this is a mom and pop business right now? Do you think Zito and Thomas and Tejada and Giambi and all these other guys making millions and millions of dollars are just the local boys made good. Open your eyes and stop fooling yourself.

by RLangford on Nov 19, 2006 5:16 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I appreciate the thread
emperor,
you sum up the emotional side of the argument well.

I also agree with RLangford, I'm stoked the A's aren't leaving the area. I'm a NRAF.

I feel sorry for the A's fans who have hoped for a downtown ballpark, because lets face it, until teleportation gets the kinks worked out, baseball works best when its a short walk or bus ride from work.

I think the city of Oakland blew it, especially Jerry Brown, by not making a park happen on Lake Merrit by a bart station. That would have sparked the downtown development.

I agree with what you say about baseball, in an urban area, you're going to the game to slow your life down, to see the grass, to high five the stranger, etc. I hope the applications aren't too overbearing. At the same time, a lot of what we love about the Moneyball A's is that they are willing to be contrarian and do things different.

We'll see how it plays out, but they are sure a fascinating franchise to follow.

by connie mack on Nov 19, 2006 12:30 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

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