Media Reports Big Hurt Close to Deal With Toronto
[editor's note, by louismg]: Big-time rumors tonight. Promoted compy's diary and added some new links and notes...
Fresh off Blez's note this morning that Thomas was rumored to have been wooed by the Texas Rangers, media reports, including ESPN, the Mercury News, and the San Francisco Chronicle, are reporting that the Toronto Blue Jays are on the verge of completing a deal that would see the Big Hurt leave Oakland.
A's GM Billy Beane, in response to inquiries from the Mercury News, said that Frank was likely going to get an offer from Toronto, before calling the A's and asking them to match it. I'm sure a great many of us here on AN, including myself, are hoping this is part of a play for leverage, and not a real desire on Frank's part to either leave town or put on a white and blue jersey to hit bombs in the Rogers Centre...
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horrible offseason so far
If he signs there, he'll re-injure himself within 2 months...
Thomas
by 3Chavy3 on Nov 16, 2006 11:54 AM PST up reply actions
Noooo!
Well, let's remember that Wolff owns a piece of...
So, like, in an odd way, he'd still be benefiting us...
Okay, I'm clutching.
depends on the the term and $s
frank, in TOR, on artifical turf with a "strange" clubhouse and a hothead manager.... should be interesting going to jays games this year.
yoiks
... which is, now that I think about it, an ironic sentence for me of all monkeys to type ...
If Gibbons goes simian on Frank
If ted lilly kicked his ass
by Athletics fan and runner on Nov 16, 2006 12:34 AM PST up reply actions
Whatever...
by BobbyCrosbysGirl on Nov 15, 2006 6:14 PM PST reply actions
good use of the word
I HATE MY LIFE.
by iloveoakland on Nov 15, 2006 6:15 PM PST reply actions
The Big Hurt on artificial turf.....
Purely about the Benjamins
It was fun having you here for a year, Frank. But like Foulke, Frank is probably taking the money and running. Boo to you...booooooooo!
The Benjamins?
Wait a minute, I'll wikipedia it...
...okay, found it.
"It's all about the Benjamins" in Canadian would be, "It's all about the Bordens".
It would be the Loonies ($1 coins)
You do the math. (Not sure JP did.)
Well...
by compy75 on Nov 15, 2006 6:18 PM PST reply actions
Filing....
Add about
The Bright Side
Thomas is type B
ouch!
Rotoworld says it might be a sign
If so, PLEASE! JP! YOU'RE TAKING OUR BIG HURT, PLEASE GIVE US WELLS!
Thomas, if signed, blocks Adam Lind
Maybe we could try to trade for Wells and Lind?
Who would we have to trade though, is the quesiton.
Blanton and two of Windsor, Komine and Calero?
I would LOVE to get Adam Lind
I'd much rather take a chance on a guy like him than take the same chance on a past-his-prime veteran like Piazza or Sosa.
And by the way, what's with all the veteran names being bandied about? Doesn't anyone believe in Menudo anymore?
veteran names...
by Cutthemullet on Nov 15, 2006 9:36 PM PST up reply actions
maybe four out of five
that's because no one can see beyond Bonds
Cliff Floyd might be a good, incentive-based signing. Trot Nixon to platoon with Kielty...there are guys out there.
by Cutthemullet on Nov 16, 2006 1:54 AM PST up reply actions
I really liked Jose Guillen
and believe me...
by Cutthemullet on Nov 16, 2006 1:57 AM PST up reply actions
Gaudin
J.P. is a horrible General Manager... Horrible.
by Colorado Fan on Nov 16, 2006 9:21 AM PST up reply actions
f#&k
Miserable offseason thus far
I trust Billy though. I wouldn't be surprised to see Adam Dunn DHing in Oakland next year. Or some bat of some sort. I can't imagine Beane's just gonna see Thomas off and then throw up his hands and go "Oh well. Hey Melhuse, wanna DH for a full season?"
I trust Billy, too
But isn't
Billy has ingenius-ed himself out of the market for top free agents, and to the extent they are almost always overpaid, that's a good thing. But to the extent that they are usually the best players, that's a bad thing, and helps explain why FT was the A's most-exciting hitter since Giambi, and why if he walks we're unlikely to have anyone like him next year.
I trust Billy to make the kind of moves you suggest below (Durazo, Nomah, Bonds); essentially when it comes to free agency, other teams buy new stuff and the A's buy second-hand. I guess if you like thrift stores, yard sale and dumpster-diving, you'll love the Moneyball A's.
by rubin sierra on Nov 16, 2006 10:03 AM PST up reply actions
good point, but ...
Past performance is not an indicator of future performance when a player is old and debilitated, or young and flukey/lucky/marginal physically and relying on deception.
Continuing with the Lind and Wells vain...
How's this for a roster!
C1 Kendall
LF Bradley
1B Swisher
CF Wells
3B Chavez
DH Lind
SS Crosby
RF Kotsay
2B Ellis
C2 Brown
IF Scutaro
IF Perez
OF Bocachica
SP Harden
SP Haren
SP Loaiza
SP Blanton
SP Windsor
RP Street
RP Duchscherer
RP Kennedy
RP Gaudin
RP Komine
RP Saarloos
RP Flores
Got a question
Trade?
by Furious George on Nov 15, 2006 7:51 PM PST up reply actions
Ooofah!
But I'm sure a plan is in place. I can't believe nobody saw this as a possibility when Frank said he wanted to see what his value is (translation: I'm taking what I can despite all that stuff I said about loyalty). Beane made a good faith effort to resign him if those rumors were true during the playoffs. Nothing you can do if he wants to cash one more big check.
by Floridafan on Nov 15, 2006 6:43 PM PST reply actions
Wells
We're not getting Wells...
by beanehead on Nov 15, 2006 6:52 PM PST reply actions
Certainly with Durazo DH"ing we will be
by Charlie Brown on Nov 15, 2006 7:04 PM PST up reply actions
The Return of the Durazosaurus Rex....?
by franks a lot on Nov 15, 2006 7:42 PM PST up reply actions
OMG!
Guess we have to get used to the idea of...
by franks a lot on Nov 15, 2006 6:56 PM PST up reply actions
Seriously.
I saw the 2007 season flash, too...
Yup, this pretty much blows.
Numbers
I'd really like
got a link doug?
the thing about TOR is they believe they can win next yr. with both NY and BOS perceived as being weak.
Same as the first
And never mind
fox
And now
"While it's uncertain whether Thomas' deal is for three years or two with an option, a source said the total value could exceed $30 million."
If that's the case, I love ya Frank but don't let the door hit you . . .
Sigh. Bye, Frank.
HOLY crap
this is my question-
how can JP be this stupid? what is the thought process here?
and beane and JP talk all the time. beane has known about this offer since this morning. i mean, why would one friend let another friend committ professional suicide?
I'm not a monkey, but I'm fairly cynical
Let me re-phrase, there is no good reason for JP to sign Big Hurt to that kind of deal. I can't help but wonder if Ricciardi is doing a favor for his old friend Beane and is upping the bid to make Texas bump their offer up to 3 years gauranteed.
Just a hunch, and maybe I'm too devious for my own good.
yor nobody's monkey
Fascinating, Jim.
well, as for the last point ...
As for what the f&%$ JP is thinking ... I have no idea whatsoever. I think $20M guaranteed to Frank for 2 years is just plain stupid. I mean, I personally wouldn't have guaranteed 2 years no matter what the money, and I would have been hesitant to even guarantee one year. While Frank did "earn" a better contract than what he signed for '06, granting him those "earnings" is a classic case of paying for past performance.
All of which is not to say that there's no chance Frank will perform well for the Jays in '07 and/or '08. I just think it's pretty unlikely.
"Bench Coach of Damocles"
fact is rogers has billions...hell i'm right now using his high speed! i'm paying for big frank right now dammit!
i fear we're heading to another 2-3 years of really really bad contracts in MLB.
best to button down the hatches and wait out this storm of insanity.....
mmm ...
I know, I know, Beane'll scrap together 90 wins for us out of pure ingenuity, he always does.
by rubin sierra on Nov 15, 2006 10:24 PM PST up reply actions
hmmm
Sounds like a plan!!
by BobbyCrosbysGirl on Nov 15, 2006 7:13 PM PST up reply actions
Crosby maybe with stats like that.
by Charlie Brown on Nov 15, 2006 7:26 PM PST up reply actions
CLUTCH!
2/3 of the homers are walk-offs.
by Furious George on Nov 15, 2006 7:56 PM PST up reply actions
Who cares
This isn't..
JP's got so much money he doesn't really care what the numbers are.
by FlynnSox on Nov 15, 2006 7:43 PM PST up reply actions
So jealous,
I wish the A's had a similar type of ownership. Oh...wait a sec-nevermind. Sorry. Sigh.
by southofcruiseamerica on Nov 15, 2006 9:44 PM PST up reply actions
beane better get another big bat or the A's
by larrysgurl on Nov 15, 2006 7:36 PM PST reply actions
Yeesh
by Smartball on Nov 15, 2006 7:44 PM PST reply actions
cbssportsline
"He's exploring the market," Beane said. "He'll probably get back to us and we'll decide to either match it or not."
So I guess he will give us the shot to match any deal. I hope we don't if it's 2 year 30 mil.
uh...wow
<pouts>
you can't spell 'putouts' w/o 'pouts'
Loyalty
Uhhhh, I guess you haven't been following sports
by Bifford on Nov 15, 2006 8:03 PM PST up reply actions
there's no such thing as loyalty when it comes
by larrysgurl on Nov 15, 2006 8:33 PM PST up reply actions
or business in general
And you would turn the money down?
Yeah. Right.
Piazza's way down my list
If Bonds comes down to $10M or less for 1 or 2 years, I sign him.
If Nomahhh isn't the subject of a bidding war, I'd take a flyer on him.
Curious:
I do.
not to mention playing on turf exacerbates it
I'm with jeepers
Put Bonds at DH and give Swisher and Kielty and DJ some spot-starts, and I think he'd be fine for 2 years.
idea
Beane tells JP he will match the Thomas offer, unless they work a deal out. As in he lets Thomas sign with Toronto and they work out some kind of deal for Wells, with Thomas as sort of an incentive for trading Wells. Possible?
Come on...
we'll give them the best we got
gosh darnit...
For the parties
The 2006-2007 offseason market is going to absolutely freaking crazy. Orlando Hernandez just re-signed with the Mets for 2 years and 12 million. Jamie Moyer got roughly the exact same deal from the Phillies. Jose Valentin got 2 years and roughly 4 million. Mike Mussina is going to get rougly 2 years and 22-25 million from the Yankees it's being reported. The Red Sox paid 51 million dollars for the right to negotiate a contract with Daisuke Matsuzaka. Gil Meche, Gil freaking Meche, could get upwards of 8 or 9 or even 10 million per year. Ted Lilly is going to get 9 or 10 million per year. Barry Zito is going to get 15-17 million a year. Hell, Vicente Padilla could see 8 or 9 million a year.
Basically, the point I'm making is that Frank Thomas getting 12 million a year surprises me not in the least. The moneys just out there to be spent, and somebody has to come along and take it. As I said earlier, I wouldn't be too upset. Frank's really stretching his injury (lack thereof) luck and I don't doubt that Beane can work someone like Blanton (at least in this market for pitching) plus other assets for perhaps even an Adam Dunn (remember, they did essentially give up Austin Kearns for middle relief fodder last season, at least Blanton's a pretty proven innings eater).
I can't believe I'm saying this, but Esteban Loaiza, for the next two seasons, is, provided injury problems are past him, going to be an absolute steal at 7 million if hes putting up ERA's in the 4.1-4.3 range as I think he's capable of when he's not hurt.
This is why
by BlameChannel53 on Nov 15, 2006 9:18 PM PST up reply actions
WERE NOT THE SAN JOSE A'S OF FREMONT YET
by BHooves78 on Nov 15, 2006 8:41 PM PST reply actions
I'm shocked
too lazy to scroll up
I foresee a LOT of 2-1-type games next year
You can never predict
by china bob on Nov 15, 2006 9:52 PM PST up reply actions
Pat Burrell
by dp48 on Nov 15, 2006 9:02 PM PST reply actions
eric chavez
chavvy said he wanted to stay with the A's ... and he did. yes, he's still getting paid a lot of money by the A's but if he chose to test the market, i believe he would have gotten a lot more.
so thank you, chavvy, for being one of the rare players to keep his word and for being a great third baseman for our team!!!!
Thank you Eric
by BlameChannel53 on Nov 15, 2006 9:22 PM PST up reply actions
yes, that too.
Pssst
Actually
But, I guess Chavvy has bought some time in my mind b/c I think he gave us a gutty performance this year. And I guess in this modern, crazy-economic world of ball we're in, an honest effort is about as much as you can hope for.....cause you ain't getting loyalty!!!
Add to conspiracy file:
by southofcruiseamerica on Nov 15, 2006 9:50 PM PST up reply actions
Responsible opposing viewpoint
by FreeSeatUpgrade on Nov 15, 2006 9:33 PM PST up reply actions
Funny you wrote that
by china bob on Nov 15, 2006 9:54 PM PST up reply actions
AMEN!
by BobbyCrosbysGirl on Nov 15, 2006 10:35 PM PST up reply actions
HAHAHAHAHAHAHHA
But he's not clutch enough.
DUH.
:p
I guessed 2/20 or 3/24...
This will keep him at the blackjack tables long into his retirement.
Beware the coming press conference about 'respect.'
good gawd, it never ends...
Wow!
Taxes are hire in
by Salvatore on Nov 15, 2006 10:49 PM PST up reply actions
Top rate on federal income tax
Ontario has a 17.1% top rate, which is much more than any state, but combine federal with state/provincial and it's not a big difference.
For example, California's top rate is 9.3% with an additional 1% on income over $1 million. That makes marginal rate of 45.3% vs 46.1%. For total tax the difference is larger, but still not huge. Less than the difference between here and Florida or Texas.
see ya frank
Frank Thomas
by iloveoakland on Nov 15, 2006 10:02 PM PST reply actions
BONDS...
by hans @ Athletics Nation on Nov 15, 2006 10:12 PM PST reply actions
Would not surprise me
by BlameChannel53 on Nov 15, 2006 10:41 PM PST up reply actions
You guys have got to check out this video!
by 1991batboy on Nov 15, 2006 10:40 PM PST reply actions
Um...
by BobbyCrosbysGirl on Nov 15, 2006 10:47 PM PST up reply actions
I just heard on ESPN radio
Bummer...........................
Not sure about that
by BlameChannel53 on Nov 15, 2006 11:21 PM PST up reply actions
Not healthy
by BlameChannel53 on Nov 15, 2006 11:56 PM PST up reply actions
what a backstabbing bitch
by rsur5 on Nov 16, 2006 12:32 AM PST reply actions
Huh?
by OaktownPower on Nov 16, 2006 1:09 AM PST up reply actions
yep
by BlameChannel53 on Nov 16, 2006 1:17 AM PST up reply actions
People on this site
I think we all need to calm down on the reactionary stuff.
by walk off bunt on Nov 16, 2006 9:25 AM PST up reply actions
AERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGG
by Athletics fan and runner on Nov 16, 2006 12:47 AM PST reply actions
wow
by Cutthemullet on Nov 16, 2006 1:45 AM PST up reply actions
I aquired a Durazo jersey
I knew that there was a good chance that the A's would lose thomas and thus the jersey was very cheap, but man... to get it the day the news breaks was harsh.
by Athletics fan and runner on Nov 16, 2006 9:10 AM PST up reply actions
really...
by Cutthemullet on Nov 16, 2006 1:46 AM PST up reply actions
If those numbers are real...
Bye Frank. That's a great offer for you, in all seriousness; you had better take it.
We'll be looking elsewhere.
agreed
I'm shocked that so many people are surprised by this. This was the absolute best case scenario for the A's when they signed him. He kicks ass in Oakland, then cashes in.
Does no one remember John Jaha? In '99, he overcame years of injuries to put up a monster year. Beane gives him two guaranteed years and Jaha, predictably, is on the DL almost the whole time.
I'd have offered Thomas 1 guaranteed year with a $5M base and loads of incentives that could take the total value to the $8M-10M range. Physically limited, but still skilled DHs shouldn't get the benefit of the doubt.
Good luck with that, Toronto.
Who wouldnt be about the money in this case??
You say it like it is a bad thing....no one in their right mind would turn down a 31 million dollar, THREE year deal at his age and injury status.
by OaktownPower on Nov 16, 2006 9:03 AM PST up reply actions
Huh...
I'm glad the A's got a healthy, productive year out of Thomas, but I'm ecstatic that they won't be paying him gobs of guaranteed money for the next 2 or 3 years.
Juan Pierre
This is just as well, and increasingly inevitable
The A's got a great deal last year, and bringing him back - even at Billy Beane's preferred price - would have been risky. Even healthy, the performances of superstar players like Thomas start declining in their late 30s (Bonds, of course, is the steroid-fueled exception).
At $10 million or more a season, Thomas is simply a bad bet. And on turf?
When Thomas is on the disabled list because he turned his ankle just the wrong way, I will take a certain twisted amusement out of it.
That said, Thomas' departure leaves the A's depleted offense looking rather sad. There is simply no replacement for his 2006 level of production out there. Bonds is fools' gold, by the way. Even on whatever he's taking, and ignoring his personality, Bonds isn't Thomas' equal now. He's just an old guy, who admittedly still walks a lot, hanging on to break a record.
I wonder if Thomas
if that is the case
by bigelephant on Nov 16, 2006 10:11 AM PST up reply actions
more good news
clogging the bases
by Athletics fan and runner on Nov 16, 2006 10:54 AM PST up reply actions
clogged bases
My real point is that Thomas is now a one-dimensional player (hit with power). Perhaps Billy will fill the hole with a more complete player, still get some power, and pick up some depth.
Yeah, who wants 39 home runs
I know you're not trying to make that argument, so don't take it personally or anything, I just can't even stand seeing the words "clogging the bases" since it's almost 99% of the time associated with something moronic being said.
by walk off bunt on Nov 16, 2006 12:22 PM PST up reply actions
Well played, Mr. Hurt.
The only way the A's could even think about matching this offer is if Frank would be willing to include a clause that voids the contract if his ankle breaks again. And even then, I don't think it makes sense. It guarantees that Bobby Kielty is our everyday LF next year. Heck, I don't even know if we could afford KIELTY if we give Frank that kind of coin.
Thanks for a great season, and congratulations on the big pay day.
You can't blame, Frank
by Salvatore on Nov 16, 2006 11:47 AM PST reply actions
We're having one helluva off-season, eh?
Seriously, how else can the A's get screwed/screw themselves before next season?

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