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DLD 10/23/2006 -- More Kenny Rogers

Tiny by rfloh on Comment 265 comments

For anyone who's already sick of this, I apologise. For those[editor's note, by rfloh] [spelling] who're not, here's more reaction to pine-tar boy.

TLR says he doesn't believe that it was dirt.

Jon Heyman says it was certainly pine tar, and gets the opinion of a bullpen coach on the reasons and methods for the use of pine tar and other "foreign" substances.

"The pine tar blends in nicely with the glove if it's the right color. I'd check which gloves he was using which inning. You just get it in your hand and rub it up. The pine tar allows the index finger and thumb to apply more pressure on the ball. With Rogers and his curveball, he needs more pressure on his thumb. It also helps the ball move a little extra. If the ball is fractionally heavier on one side, it will move more.

"But the predominant reason to use the pine tar is for the grip and to apply the necessary pressure to throw your pitches. The ball was coming out of his hand pretty good. It's good for the splitter, the cutter, the slider and the curveball.

"Rogers isn't a very hard thrower. He depends on movement. It can even help with the changeup. The hard thing about throwing a splitter is controlling it. If you apply pine tar to the middle finger and index finger it allows you to grip it better and gain more control. But pine tar is very visible. That's why you have to be careful. A lot of times you have to wipe it off between innings with alcohol. It comes right off with alcohol.

"He definitely was using pine tar. It can cake with pine tar and rosin. Maybe after the second inning, he went back to the shaving cream and added moisture. I'd say he was either hiding it better or he went back to the shaving cream or suntan lotion.

The bullpen coach also speculates why TLR was reticient.

"I bet Tony La Russa's pitchers are mad at him for saying anything, because a lot of guys do it, and I'd be surprise if there's a whole staff of guys who don't do it. In fact, I'd say a majority of guys use one of the three -- shaving cream, suntan lotion or pine tar.

PAGING Sal, Jacob Luft says Rogers cheating is no big deal. He is even impressed that Rogers managed to get away with it for so long, in the ALCS for example. To his credit, he doesn't distinguish between this and corked bats, AAS. To him, it's all somewhat acceptable.

If anything, I'm impressed that Rogers has been getting away with doctoring the ball for this long.

...

This isn't the first time in recent years that this facet of the game has come to conflict with our society's newfound and complete intolerance for cheaters and liars of any sort. (Maybe this is all fallout from the Clinton-Lewinsky scandal. Who knows?) I was stunned at how much the corked bat incident damaged Sammy Sosa's image; allegations of something else ruined whatever was left. Speaking of which, has Rafael Palmeiro even come out of his bunker yet? Palmeiro's biggest sin wasn't taking the stuff, it was lying to us about it

Ken Rosenthal speculates on why TLR was so reticient, and sounds pissed off, he usually is never this snarky

FOX cameras detect a brown splotch on the left hand of Tigers pitcher Kenny Rogers in the first inning. And Cardinals manager Tony La Russa goes nuts.

La Russa asks plate umpire Alfonso Marquez to inspect Rogers for a foreign substance. Marquez determines that the substance is pine tar. Rogers is ejected and suspended for the rest of the Series.

Truth! Justice! The American Way!

If only it were that simple. La Russa might have improved the Cardinals' chances if he had gone after Rogers, who washed his hands and pitched eight brilliant innings in Game 2 to help the Tigers tie the Series, one game each.

But the solution might only have been temporary -- for the Cardinals, the World Series and Major League Baseball.

As usual in baseball, the question is not whether one player is cheating; it's how many others are engaging in similar hijinks.

Heaven forbid that anyone follow the actual rules.

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Jim Leyland cares for your health.
link from last year
He was being interviewed by then-ESPNer Chris Myers, who was asking him about his well-publicized tendency to smoke cigarettes in the dugout. Leyland paused for a moment, put his head down and delivered the obligatory platitudes about how bad smoking is for you, how children should avoid smoking, how he knows it's unhealthy. Then he looked directly into the camera, his eyes very wide, and said, "Still. Smokers out there, you know what I'm talking about. That moment, after you've had a huge meal, say at Thanksgiving, when you step outside in the cold, light up a cigarette and take a deep inhale ... that's about the best moment in the world, you know? All the smokers out there, you know that feeling. Sometimes, smoking is fantastic." Myers quickly cut to commercial, and Leyland has never been on the show since.

The lovable old coot.

Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Oct 24, 2006 7:54 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Welcome to flavor country!
"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 24, 2006 7:57 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Always Wondered
So that's where the Marlboro Man retired to, he became a MLB manager.  I always figured he went off and died of lung cancer.  My scientific mind can now deduce one unassailable fact; smoking enhances a manager's abilities as well as his attractiveness to the opposite sex.  Is there anything cigarettes can't do?
I'd like to eat my lunch, but Billy just kicked me out of my office.

by BlameChannel53 on Oct 24, 2006 8:10 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're thinking of donuts...
http://www.snpp.com/episodes/9F10.html

Donuts.  Is there anything they <can't> do?
   -- Homer, ``Marge vs. the Monorail''

More than just ANtics: http://www.louisgray.com/live/

by louismg on Oct 24, 2006 8:32 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

plus, he meets all the cool workers
at the stadium
"Having a vote for 'most clutch' baseball player is like having a vote for 'most real' monster." - Ken Tremendous

by ArakSOT on Oct 24, 2006 8:11 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Can't argue with that, I guess.
You do meet all your cool co-workers that way...
Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Oct 24, 2006 8:16 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, sometimes smoking is fantastic
What's wrong with that?

No, I don't smoke; never have.

On Sunday, Minaya ticked off a list of candidates to join the rotation, and for once this season, none of them was Jose Lima.

by rfloh on Oct 24, 2006 8:37 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is California!
You eat babies for breakfast if you smoke.
"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 24, 2006 8:39 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

No, this is the internets!
California is thattaway!
Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Oct 24, 2006 8:44 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I suck at teh Interweb.
<sobs>
"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 24, 2006 9:00 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Christ, what an asshole.
"...and then a third guy walks in and starts punching me in the grief bone."

by Jennifer on Oct 24, 2006 8:47 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

sharon, what a jennifer
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Oct 24, 2006 8:53 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hire Girardi now?
I wouldn't.  But it appears he'd be available for an interview, since he has taken himself out of the running for the Nationals' job.

Girardi cites family considerations as the reason for his decision:

Girardi told the newspaper he was impressed with the Nationals' organization and thinks the job is a good one, but added that family considerations led him to decide not to pursue it.

"I think I came to the conclusion at this time that it's not the right move for my family," he told the Post. Girardi and his wife Kim have three children and moved to Miami less than a year ago when he took the Marlins job.

Why don't I believe him?  Washington is the closest job to him geographically; it's not like Oakland, San Francisco or Texas are better fits.  There is speculation in the article (which Girardi denies) that he wants to go back to New York in some capacity.

Anyway, I'm not a big fan of his.  His legion of rules and ability to rub people the wrong way make me think of him as Buck Showalter, if he owned a stairmaster.

"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 24, 2006 8:17 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

What do you think of some non inhouse
candidates, like Manny Acta, or Larry Dierker?
On Sunday, Minaya ticked off a list of candidates to join the rotation, and for once this season, none of them was Jose Lima.

by rfloh on Oct 24, 2006 8:39 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I always liked Dierker
when he was with the Astros.  I don't know a lot about Acta, to be honest with you.  But given the interest he's generating with other teams, I wouldn't be averse to the A's speaking with him.
"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 24, 2006 8:41 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I like them both
Mainly because everything I've read about them indicates that they're open to "stathead" type thinking, and thus likely to be able to work with BB.

Larry Dierker has a great blog.

BPro had an interview with Acta sometime in 2005 that's very interesting. He basically says things about OBP, patience, slugging, being overly-aggressive, baserunning, closers, playing young player vs veterans, that should cause statheads to fall madly in love.

On Sunday, Minaya ticked off a list of candidates to join the rotation, and for once this season, none of them was Jose Lima.

by rfloh on Oct 24, 2006 8:54 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks for the great info!
The think I always liked about Dierker was the way he communicates--directly, and often with humor.  I think that could be a good fit in the A's clubhouse.
"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 24, 2006 9:05 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree
But also, think of all the puns that A's fans could make with Manny Acta's name. We could drive Mariners fans crazy with jealousy :)
On Sunday, Minaya ticked off a list of candidates to join the rotation, and for once this season, none of them was Jose Lima.

by rfloh on Oct 24, 2006 9:24 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Manny "I'm a Handsome" Acta?
"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 24, 2006 9:28 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mychael Urban edition:
Tired Acta.
"It's time to blow this team up." - Oaktoon, July 2006

by Ozzz on Oct 24, 2006 9:36 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Post. Of. The. Postseason.
but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 24, 2006 9:55 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

i hate bruce jenkins more every day
i'm sick of all this old-school manager love.  first he said the a's should hire his buddy dusty baker, now he's praising pretty much every managerial decision larussa and leyland have made.

La Russa clearly took the high road
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/chronicle/archive/2006/10/24/SPGHVLURI71.DTL

-La Russa's passive reaction might have been out of character, but from this corner, he gets a pardon. He took the high road, basically saying, "Let's play the damn game, not start pointing fingers at each other."

-Loved the fact that Leyland pitched to Albert Pujols (who homered) with first base open in Game 2. That's how the real managers play it. They don't cower or give up because a Barry Bonds-style wave of apprehension has swept the land.

La Russa entered Game 1 with a 1-12 record in World Series games outside the A's 1989 sweep of the Giants, drawing a reputation of being too intense -- to the point where it affects his players -- as the pressure builds. A number of factors could reverse this trend. The Cardinals won the opener, lessening the tension considerably, and La Russa took a country-hardball stance Sunday night instead of obsessing on Rogers' left palm.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Oct 24, 2006 8:47 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

High road, my ass.
He might have cost his team the World Series.  They PAY you to go out there and stick up for your team.
"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 24, 2006 8:59 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

See...now I don't know WHAT I want
I'd love LaRussa to lose the series again, in large part because of that move.

Yet I want Kenny Rogers to be HORRIBLE in his next start, since obviously the cameras will be on.

Hmmm...dilemma.

Ho hum. Just another day for the OAKLAND ATHLETICS OF AWESOME! ~Kyli

by baseballgirl on Oct 24, 2006 9:12 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

What we need is a 7-game series
In which LaRussa has Rogers inspected in the first inning, and one of three things happens:
  1.  He's actually dumb enough to go out there AGAIN with an illegal substance on him, and gets ejected.
  2.  He loses his mind over LaRussa's request, and gets ejected.
  3.  He loses his mind over LaRussa's request, stays in the game, and gets pounded into oblivion.
Then, the Tigers win Game 7 on a walkoff grand slam by Placido Polanco.
"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 24, 2006 9:21 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well there is speculation
by Heyman and Rosenthal that TLR didn't complain too much because his own pitchers may have been using "foreign" substances.
On Sunday, Minaya ticked off a list of candidates to join the rotation, and for once this season, none of them was Jose Lima.

by rfloh on Oct 24, 2006 9:33 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If Macha had done these things...
we would have been ready to fire him personally.

Let's see, a tightly-wound pitcher who has been totally dominant in the postseason is caught, orange-handed, with pine tar in his hand.

What does the manager do?  

Isn't it obvious?  He waits until Rogers goes out to pitch the second, and then raises a huge stink with the umpire in front of everyone.  LaRussa then forces the umpires to go out there and inspect Rogers' hand in front of a national television audience.  Maybe he gets ejected from the game - the ideal outcome.  Maybe he has to leave the field and "wash his hands."  Maybe he just becomes unhinged and rattled.

There is no excuse, none, for not taking advantage of this.  LaRussa didn't protect his players or do his job.  Can you imagine what Billy Martin would have done?  All this crap about taking the high road is just nonsense.  LaRussa is starting to prove why the only World Series he ever won was the World Series where his team was so superior that he couldn't screw it up.  

As for pitching to Pujols with a base open, there's no excuse for that one, either.  And to his credit, Leyland didn't make one.

by bear88 on Oct 24, 2006 9:16 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

i'm not sure if it was a good or bad decision
to pitch to pujols.  i guess one could look at his numbers and those of whoever was next in the lineup, the winexp of both situations, not wanting the best player in the world series to beat you because of the psychological damage or tough media questions, etc.

but the most retarded reasoning possible would be this:
"Leyland showed his entire team that he will manage without fear."

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Oct 24, 2006 9:23 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

"taking the high road"
I hate this "LaRussa took the high road" mess. How is it honorable to stand by and do nothing while someone tries to screw you and your team over? It's certainly not as bad as cheating, but I don't know why it would be commended.

I hope that Kenny Rogers doesn't even get a chance to pitch again. Cards in 5.

Kettlecorn! Swishercorn!

by TurnTwo on Oct 24, 2006 9:34 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Don't think...
...this has anything to do with 'high road'. This is about following the rules - and everyone, particularly the umpires, bailed. Don't tell me this all was a surprise to them either. They change that ball almost every pitch. They saw nothing - ever - on the ball? Pine tar doesn't leave a smudge? They, of all people, see the ball acting 'funny'. This is their life - watching baseballs come at them at 92-98 mph. C'mon! As for La Russa, he is as much to blame as anyone. This 'old school' guy didn't want to blow the whistle on 'ol Kenny. He had to know what was going on. All he had to do was raise the issue - early. Make an issue of it. Have the umpire look at the glove, the hat, the hand - whatever. Work Rogers over. Give a game that has suffered from lack of integrity, a boost. BTW, Rogers' remarks to the press about this matter after the game were pitiful.

by doubleplayer on Oct 24, 2006 9:44 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

and, of course ...
... at one point, TLR wasn't "old school" -- esp w/his bullpen usage. I'm too lazy (and not quite that self-abusive) to go back through Jenkins' '80s back catalog, but I'd be willing to bet that he roasted TLR back when TLR was "new school."
but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 24, 2006 9:57 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Milledge, Heilman on the market?
Willie Randolph suggests as much in this New York Times article.  I don't know that we have what they would want in return (namely, starting pitching), but those sure are two interesting players.
The Mets will probably re-sign Guillermo Mota and Chad Bradford, and possibly Pedro Feliciano, with those moves potentially having an impact on Heilman. Randolph reiterated General Manager Omar Minaya's stance that Heilman, who wants a chance to start, would remain a reliever until further notice and would get an opportunity to start only under their terms. With Mota on board and a healthy Duaner Sánchez, Heilman could be expendable and used as one of the Mets' prime trading chips in the off-season.

The Mets could move him in a deal for a starting pitcher or another hitter, perhaps using Milledge in the deal. Randolph said he would not rule out having Milledge start in left field next season, but he added, somewhat cryptically: "Who knows. They could be used in trades."

"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 24, 2006 9:17 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

can we still trick Minaya
into trading them for Barry Zito?

by Zonis on Oct 24, 2006 9:19 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe
"Omar, didn't you know that Barry Zito was right-handed, heavyset, and from Kentucky?"
"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 24, 2006 9:23 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm a Mets fan
Heilman is definitely on the market. He wants desperately to start, whereas the Mets for some reason absolutely refuse to let him start.

As for Milledge, he probably can be had for the right player. The Mets seem to be "down" on him for "attitude" reasons. Apparently there are a couple of veterans that don't like him. Speculation, with not much foundation though, is that LoDuca is one of them.

I believe that the Mets would almost certainly trade the both of them for Dontrelle Willis. The A's don't have and never had anyone they would trade them for, since Zito would have only been a rental for a few months.

On Sunday, Minaya ticked off a list of candidates to join the rotation, and for once this season, none of them was Jose Lima.

by rfloh on Oct 24, 2006 9:30 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think he'd want Dan Haren
but I wouldn't want to give him to him, nor would Beane.

The only other player I can think of that he might want is Mark Ellis.  They're going to need a second baseman.  Some kind of Ellis/Heilman deal could work, perhaps.  But then we'd have Marco Scutaro, starting second baseman.  Yikes.

"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 24, 2006 9:40 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

For Heilman, or Heilman AND Milledge?
Well the Mets do have Jose Valentin at 2nd. Granted he has performed above expectations this year. Nonetheless, he will take a walk, hit for surprising power, and plays great defense. His weakness is he strikeouts too much, which he didn't do this year, but is likely to next year. This year at least, Valentin has been significantly better than Ellis. I don't see them pining for Ellis. They probably want someone who can hit lefthanders to platoon with him. He's a switch hitter, but like so many of the Mets hitters, he struggles against lefties.

Beane should probably try a Blanton for Heilman proposal. Or maybe Blanton and someone like Marcus McBeth?

On Sunday, Minaya ticked off a list of candidates to join the rotation, and for once this season, none of them was Jose Lima.

by rfloh on Oct 24, 2006 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Blanton for Heilman???
Blanton + for Heilman???

I know that Heilman is a good NL Reliever, but you don't trade a pitcher who is having success in the AL (albe as a League Average starter) for a guy who is a good NL Reliever, who's own team thinks he might not make a good NL Starter, and then put him starting in the AL.

I think we might send someone like Komine for him, but not blanton. Especially since we need a pitcher, not lose one.

by Zonis on Oct 24, 2006 10:21 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with you
But look at this from the Mets point of view. A guy like Komine has absolutely NO use to them. They would just keep Heilman then.
On Sunday, Minaya ticked off a list of candidates to join the rotation, and for once this season, none of them was Jose Lima.

by rfloh on Oct 24, 2006 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Here's the deal:
Heilman for Loaiza, straight up.

If they want more, give them Witasick and Perez.

Sure, there's not much star power there, but there's arms and depth, and that final month of Loiaza's 2006 season should make him great tradebait.

"It's time to blow this team up." - Oaktoon, July 2006

by Ozzz on Oct 24, 2006 9:41 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That's not bad.
The Mets are one of the few teams that can pay him, and that ballpark would be good for Loaiza.
"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 24, 2006 9:43 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not going to happen.
If they need a somewhat expensive average pitcher, they can just go out and buy one. Blanton for Heilman is more realistic.

They have 2 good prospects, Phil Humber and Mike Pelfrey who are almost ready. Both project as no 2 / 3 type starters, and are at most, maybe a year away. They are not going to trade for Loaiza.

On Sunday, Minaya ticked off a list of candidates to join the rotation, and for once this season, none of them was Jose Lima.

by rfloh on Oct 24, 2006 10:21 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think you're overestimating what's available.
Loaiza on that wage is a good deal for a club with NY money.
"It's time to blow this team up." - Oaktoon, July 2006

by Ozzz on Oct 24, 2006 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree
Loaiza @ 2 Years/15-Million + 1 Year Club Option (7.5M) will look pretty good for some teams looking for a veteran 3 or 4 Starter

This offseason is going to get ugly for teams wanting/needing starting pitching.

COME ON, OAKLAND, COME ON!

by Colorado Fan on Oct 24, 2006 1:49 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

heilman
just had surgery on his throwing arm.  the mets had quite a few injured players who required surgery.  i mention that only because a few ANers said that the a's would have fewer injuries if rick peterson was still here.

from bbtf:

Mets first baseman Carlos Delgado, catcher Paul Lo Duca, right-hander Aaron Heilman and infielder Chris Woodward all had successful surgery Monday.

Delgado had surgery on his right wrist because of carpal tunnel syndrome, while Lo Duca had an operation to repair a ligament tear in his left thumb. Heilman underwent surgery for tennis elbow on his throwing arm and the right-handed Woodward had a torn labrum in his left shoulder operated on.

Left-fielder Cliff Floyd is scheduled to have surgery on his left Achilles tendon Wednesday. Right-hander Roberto Hernandez is scheduled to have surgery on his right knee the same day.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Oct 24, 2006 9:46 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Off Topic
What does everyone think of the new James Bond movie comming out, Casino Royale?

Its apparently going to stick a lot closer to the book then previous movies, with things changed to make up for the timegap, and more action (since the book didn't have a whole lot of it).

Its going back to lower, GoldenEye tech compared to the last three movies, which went way overboard.

by Zonis on Oct 24, 2006 9:18 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

The new lead is good..
...but I don't think he'll translate into big box office, especially being as Bond fans have already seen the movie four decades ago.

I'm picking this one to be a good, underappreciated, not quickly repeated film.

"It's time to blow this team up." - Oaktoon, July 2006

by Ozzz on Oct 24, 2006 9:42 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

if they are going to, as it seems like they are
with this film, start the Bond Series over, I really hope they redo the previous books and do them in order.

Book Order:
Book 01: Casino Royale
Book 02: Live and Let Die
Book 03: Moonraker
Book 04: Diamonds Are Forever
Book 05: From Russia with Love
Book 06: Dr. No
Book 07: Goldfinger
Book 08: For Your Eye's Only (Short Stories)
Book 09: Thunderball
Book 10: The Spy Who Loved Me
Book 11: On Her Majesty's Secret Service
Book 12: You Only Live Twice
Book 13: The Man with the Golden Gun
Book 14: Octopussy (Short Stories)

And in case your wondering, the movies that followed the books (and didn't get too far off track) were From Russia with Love, Dr. No, Goldfinger, Thunderball and On Her Majesty's Secret Service.

Which all seem to be credited as being the best of the series!

by Zonis on Oct 24, 2006 9:57 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The one they made
four decades ago was a spoof with Peter Sellers and Woody Allen.

by mikeA on Oct 24, 2006 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

disagree on one point only
The first Casino Royale bears precisely as much relation to its source material as Adaptation did to its own. Most real Bond fans hate the first CR.
but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 24, 2006 10:13 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Which is kinda my point.
If you remade Good Burger, I'm not going to get in line.
"It's time to blow this team up." - Oaktoon, July 2006

by Ozzz on Oct 24, 2006 10:56 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

oddly enough ...
... most real Bond fans adore Good Burger.
but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 24, 2006 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

They'd kind of have to..
...if they can stomach Moonraker.
"It's time to blow this team up." - Oaktoon, July 2006

by Ozzz on Oct 24, 2006 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I LOVE the first Casino Royale
One of the funniest, most consistently bizarre films ever. Five directors! Countless writers! Orson Welles! Jean-Paul Belmondo! George Raft! "Jackie" Bisset! Peter O'Toole! And those are only the cameos!

As for the new one, I think H'Oz is right on the squirrel. 5 years ago, Clive Owen would have been a better choice, but he's Kevin Spacey'ed himself in the meantime.

but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 24, 2006 10:02 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

From the trailers
I think the only thing he's missing is the scar down the cheek, and the unabashed prejudice towards all women and minorities.

by Zonis on Oct 24, 2006 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That reminds me:
Unpopular (but gaining ground) opinion:  American Beauty is a horrible horrible movie.

by mikeA on Oct 24, 2006 10:14 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

it may be an unpopular opinion
but i think there are plenty of film nerds who dislike that movie (including me).

other recent movies that i think are overrated:
eternal sunshine
sofia coppola's movies
clint eastwood's recent movies
pretty much every movie that has won a major academy award in like the last 10 years.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Oct 24, 2006 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed on all counts
Possibly uber-unpopular opinion:  Fight Club sucks.

by mikeA on Oct 24, 2006 10:29 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

ruh-roh, Raggy
Gotta disagree vehemently on that one.
but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 24, 2006 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

roger ebert
fight club is on the list of decent movies that got really bad reviews from roger ebert:

-a clockwork orange
-the hudsucker proxy
-dead man
-blue velvet
-raising arizona
-fight club
-fear and loathing
-the usual suspects
-napoleon dynamite

those are not all great films, but they're all good films, and much better than a lot of the crap that ebert likes.  
there are probably many more, but those are the ones i can remember right now.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Oct 24, 2006 1:59 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ebert to play Blanton in Moneyball?
Gotta respect Ebert for writing two Russ Meyer scripts.

I agree with him on Usual Suspects too.  That film is just a mess, imo.

A Clockwork Orange is a masterpiece, and Dead Man is a hidden treasure.  The opening sequence is great.  

I also quite enjoy Ghost Dog, Coffee and Cigarettes, and Broken Flowers.

by mikeA on Oct 24, 2006 2:10 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm actually an Ebert fan ...
... mostly for the "public service" that he performs (and, as mikeA points out, writing Beyond the Valley of the Dolls [Ebert shares a certain, shall we say, aesthetic bent with Russ Meyer]); as with the Chron's Mick LaSalle, I often disagree with his taste, but both guys can intelligently dissect a film -- which is far more than 99% of working film critics can do.

But, yeah, I have to disagree with Ebert's assessments of 5 or 6 of those. (I haven't seen #3 or 9; I pretty much agree with Ebert on #1;  and #8 ... well, I used to be all contrarian 'n' shit on it, but I recognize now that the script, while gimmicky, is brilliantly gimmicky, and that it is sharply directed).

but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 24, 2006 2:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You haven't seen Dead Man?
I would have guessed you'd be a Jarmusch fan. That one's not my favorite, but it's still worth seeing.
(And I can't imagine how anyone could dislike Usual Suspects.)
Some are sabermetricians.

by andeux on Oct 24, 2006 2:31 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

haven't seen any Jarmusch since ...
... Down By Law. I guess that's another director I should stop avoiding. (Jarmusch, from his early films, seemed to me to be the opposite of Altman: he expended all his energy on praising the taste and inclinations of his small intended audience.)
but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 24, 2006 2:53 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

i'm not bashing ebert
well, i am, but not too much.  obviously any movie reviewer is going to screw up a few times.  he does a good job for the most part.  like you, i respect him and mick lasalle.

why do you agree with ebert on a clockwork orange?  have you read the review?  
http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/19720211/REVIEWS/202110301/1023

forget about napoleon dynamite (unless you want to have inside jokes with any high school age relatives you may have), but you really should see dead man.  dead man and ghost dog make a great jarmusch double feature, but if you're going to see just one, go with dead man.  
if you do see it, let me know what you think.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Oct 24, 2006 2:39 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I had read it before, though not in ages
... but, yeah, I'd pretty much sign on with all of that. Ebert's biggest complaint about Clockwork is that it's dull and talky -- and, boy, is it. I haven't been able to sit through it since I was 17. Not enough car chases.
but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 24, 2006 2:50 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

further: ANY Charlie Kaufman-scripted film
Any post-Empire of the Sun Spielberg film
The vast, overwhelming majority of US-art-house-success European films
Most Altman films
Most John Ford films
but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 24, 2006 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

<feels sal>
No, you don't.

I'm an insufferable, idiosyncratic (and pedantic!) snob.

but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 24, 2006 10:48 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

you guys went to Pepperdine?
"Having a vote for 'most clutch' baseball player is like having a vote for 'most real' monster." - Ken Tremendous

by ArakSOT on Oct 24, 2006 2:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

i frickin' hate speilberg!
even empire of the sun isn't as good as i thought it was as a kid (like three amigos and ghostbusters).
i think spielberg probably hasn't made a good film since jaws.  his recent movies are really bad.

european films: i agree for the most part.  notice how most of them are the same (lots of sex, kinda like the french movie in arrested development or that movie they went to see on seinfeld).
but what about the blue-white-red trilogy?

altman: the only altman films i consider worth re-watching are the player and nashville.
i can't believe gosford park won best screenplay in 2002, isn't it just a rules of the game ripoff?  i preferred every other film that was nominated for best screenplay that year.

john ford: i haven't seen all of them, but i thought the searchers was really overrated.  not a top 20 movie by any stretch of the imagination.
and the man who shot liberty valance didn't live up to expectations either.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Oct 24, 2006 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Spielberg was God at one time
Jaws, CE3K, Raiders, ET, even in its own way 1941, are all flawless pictures.

And Empire ... well, I think it's one of 3 or 4 best films of the '80s. I think it holds up remarkably well.

But Speilberg's utterly forgotten how to drive a narrative or place a camera. It's sad and bewildering. And I'll gouge my eyes out if I see another damn Janusz Kaminski diffuse-light-coming-through-the-frikkin'-windows shot composition.

I've gotta disagree with you and mikeA on The Searchers (which is a marvel of dark/offensive tone masquerading as heroism -- even if it's partly unintentional) ... and, oddly enough, Gosford Park, which to me is one of Altman's few films where he's not just flipping off the audience for 105 minutes, and where he allows his strengths as a director to actually determine his aesthetic choices. Agreed on the script, though.

And I haven't seen any Koslowski. I suppose I ought to.

but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 24, 2006 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I would bet
that if you had not been exposed to any secondary sources that praise The Searchers, you would recognize it for boring piece of shit that it is.  

by mikeA on Oct 24, 2006 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

perhaps
It is indeed slow -- but I think the payoffs are worth it.

My secondary-source influences for liking it have more to do with Scorsese, though, than with, say, Jim Naremore.

but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 24, 2006 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Scorcese:
Great director, dubious critic.

by mikeA on Oct 24, 2006 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

But boy, he can bait a hook.
And he can run like the wind!
"It's time to blow this team up." - Oaktoon, July 2006

by Ozzz on Oct 24, 2006 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oooh, I dunno
I find myself enjoying all of Marty's faves more consistently than his own pictures.

Powell & Pressburger ROOL.

but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 24, 2006 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I find it hard to enjoy
most pre-1960 non-Hitchcock films, and especially pre-1940 films, but that may just reflect poorly on my patience.

by mikeA on Oct 24, 2006 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm with you there.
I think early Hitchcock is interminable.

But don't tell me wife. She just bought me Season Two of Alfred Hitchcock Presents for my birthday.

"uh... thanks... honey. Awesome..."

"It's time to blow this team up." - Oaktoon, July 2006

by Ozzz on Oct 24, 2006 11:47 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

depends how early
Something like the Lodger or the Lady Vanishes is pretty rudimentary (and I have to confess I'm not a big fan of his pre-Hollywood work), but -- Rebecca? Foreign Correspondent? Taut, creepy, crazy stuff.

(I'm actually more a fan of his '40s and '60s material than his canonical '50s pics -- although NXNW is a uniformly perfect, seamless joyride.)

but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 24, 2006 12:37 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

No Vertigo?
I'd say Vertigo and NxNW stand apart.  And Vertigo is pretty creepy...  I like the '40s stuff better than the '60s.  I would add Shadow of a Doubt.

by mikeA on Oct 24, 2006 12:56 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

aha! gotcha!
monkeyball:Vertigo::mikeA:The Searchers

It's utterly inconsistent for either of us to like one and dislike the other. I find Vertigo to be interesting but basically unwatchable. And I think that it's probably more impossible to watch Vertigo without the lens of secondary sources than is the case for The Searchers -- the secondary sources for Hitch and Vertigo having been absorbed so thoroughly into the culture at large.

Then again, I love Marnie.

And, yes, Shadow of a Doubt is great.

but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 24, 2006 1:09 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Marnie is pretty good,
but I'm not a fan of "harrowing moment from childhood that is the source of all problems" plot device also found in Spellbound (I prefer the recent spelling-themed Spellbound).

I don't think I buy the Vertigo/Searchers analogy.  I was captivated when I first saw it, before I had any exposure to film criticism, and it's a richer experience each time.  I don't think it has much to do with secondary sources.  I can certainly understand finding it unwatchable, and many do, but the reason I like is that I find it extremely watchable, not because of its exploration of various themes.

by mikeA on Oct 24, 2006 1:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

hah, i also prefer the spelling bee version
i liked vertigo when i first saw it as a child, but i think i developed a better appreciation for it after writing a paper on it in film class.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Oct 24, 2006 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

i'm with mikeA
at least on vertigo.  not only is it a great film, but kim novak is so damn hot in it.
the only early hitchcock i really like is the lady vanishes because it's a fun movie, not because it's a good movie.  i love the little model train at the beginning and the two british guys discussing cricket.

my personal ranking of some hitchcock that has been mentioned so far:
vertigo, dial m, rear window, psycho
the lady vanishes
shadow of a doubt, rebecca, 39 steps
n by nwest

least favorite of the good hitchcock films: marnie.  i really dislike it, and i can't stand tippi hedren.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Oct 24, 2006 1:46 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

What? Not enough car chases?
but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 24, 2006 12:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not enough European sex.
"It's time to blow this team up." - Oaktoon, July 2006

by Ozzz on Oct 24, 2006 1:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

not enough European sex-car chases
but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 24, 2006 2:14 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Speaking of European car chases...
(sorry, no sex) Have you ever seen Rendezvous?

8 1/2 minutes long and meant for the wide screen but still...

Pumpkin

by Ice Cream on Oct 24, 2006 2:43 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

lol
seconded
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Oct 24, 2006 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

kieslowski
you should watch blue, white and red.  blue and red are really good, white is just okay.  
also check out the decalogue.

if you like those, then i'd also recommend a short film about killing and a short film about love.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Oct 24, 2006 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Loved red, liked blue
I don't remember white, but I feel that I must have seen it in a French class at some point. What was the story?
Kettlecorn! Swishercorn!

by TurnTwo on Oct 24, 2006 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

it's the mediocre middle one
with the chick from before sunrise and before sunset.

polish guy's wife leaves him, he's obsessed with her, tries to get revenge.  sound familiar?

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Oct 24, 2006 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

European films
Amelie?
On Sunday, Minaya ticked off a list of candidates to join the rotation, and for once this season, none of them was Jose Lima.

by rfloh on Oct 24, 2006 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

amelie
was one of the films that lost best screenplay to gosford park in 2002: gosford park, amelie, memento, royal tenenbaums, and monster's ball.  
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Oct 24, 2006 11:04 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was curious about how you
felt about it, vis-a-vis your "European films are all about sex" opinion.
On Sunday, Minaya ticked off a list of candidates to join the rotation, and for once this season, none of them was Jose Lima.

by rfloh on Oct 24, 2006 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

i think it's pretty clear
"i agree for the most part.  notice how most of them..."

amelie is one foreign film.  as there are more than two foreign films, it is not most foreign films.  

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Oct 24, 2006 11:14 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

To be pedantic..
..unless you've seen 'most' foreign films, you can't really generalize about them in that way, can you?

I mean, what if 'most' of the foreign films you've seen have been based on the people in them, or the cover, or the fact that your local video store only buys the adult ones?

It's like, if I said 'most' Hong Kong films were chop socky events, I'd be wrong. But the fact that 'most' Hong Kong films you can find at Blockbuster are chop socky films slants our interpretation of them somewhat.

"It's time to blow this team up." - Oaktoon, July 2006

by Ozzz on Oct 24, 2006 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

but we're NOT talking about most foreign films
we're talking about most "US-art-house-success European films".

what do you know about most foreign films I've seen?   i probably have about 700 foreign films on DVD, and many of them are not available at local video stores, so please don't tell me what foreign films i've seen.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Oct 24, 2006 11:22 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe you can point out where you say...
...or even imply, "US-art-house-success" in the following statement:
european films: i agree for the most part.  notice how most of them are the same (lots of sex, kinda like the french movie in arrested development

But then, since you say you have 700 European films on DVD, clearly you're in the right, because god knows there's only ever been about 704 European films released in the US, ever.

"It's time to blow this team up." - Oaktoon, July 2006

by Ozzz on Oct 24, 2006 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

i was having a conversation with monkeyball
i posted a comment, monkeyball responded to my comment.  

in his comment, he used the term "US-art-house-success European films".

i responded to his comment and addressed each issue, point by point.  
my comment on "european films" is clearly a direct response to his statement on US-art-house-success European films.

as i was specifically responding to him, i didn't feel the need to write out "US-art-house-success European films" so instead i shortened it to "european films".  

i'm sure he knew exactly what i was talking about.

even those who don't have enough between the ears to appreciate crap by sofia coppola can probalby see that.

so do you have anything of use to add on the subject or are we done here?

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Oct 24, 2006 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, you know I can add.
How about the fact that, as I was stating earlier, the fact that something makes it to the US arthouse cinemas (or Blockbuster, or your video drawer) is indicative more of the taste of arthouse distributors, and audiences, than what films could potentially be such places?

Hmm?

"It's time to blow this team up." - Oaktoon, July 2006

by Ozzz on Oct 24, 2006 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

that's not what we were discussing
we were discussing similarities in "US-art-house-success European films" NOT what that is indicative of.  

no one said it was or wasn't due to the taste of distributors or the audience.  
in fact, no one stated an opinion on that subject at all.
why? because that's NOT what we were discussing.  

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Oct 24, 2006 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am.
So nyer.
"It's time to blow this team up." - Oaktoon, July 2006

by Ozzz on Oct 24, 2006 11:54 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was just curious
Not meaning to pick a fight or anything.

I guess it kinda depends on how you view sex in movies.

But, are you extending the sex thing to foreign films? I've watched a LOT of HK films and quite a few Japanese films, and your sex comment definitely does not apply.

On Sunday, Minaya ticked off a list of candidates to join the rotation, and for once this season, none of them was Jose Lima.

by rfloh on Oct 24, 2006 11:32 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

grrr
"US-art-house-success European films"

i'm gonna make that my f'ing sig.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Oct 24, 2006 11:40 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Calm yourself Dr Notthenineoclocknews.
We are men of science.
"It's time to blow this team up." - Oaktoon, July 2006

by Ozzz on Oct 24, 2006 11:44 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

<snerk>
Perhaps "influences" might have been a more appropriate -- albeit less colorful <ahem> -- verb in that last sentence. ;)
but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 24, 2006 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I can't find my wallet.
And I don't want to suit next to you anymore.
"It's time to blow this team up." - Oaktoon, July 2006

by Ozzz on Oct 24, 2006 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

<throws battery>
but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 24, 2006 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

now, that one I LOVE
Jeunet is a genius. Delicatessen and City of Lost Children are even more amazing. Alien 152 (or whatever) and Very Long Engagement, not so much.
but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 24, 2006 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

i agree on all four
i have good taste, and your taste is similar to mine, so that means you have good taste.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Oct 24, 2006 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

kieslowski
you should watch blue, white and red.  blue and red are really good, white is just okay.  
also check out the decalogue.

if you like those, then i'd also recommend a short film about killing and a short film about love.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Oct 24, 2006 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

And for something a little different:
Man Bites Dog. There is no substitute.
"It's time to blow this team up." - Oaktoon, July 2006

by Ozzz on Oct 24, 2006 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

man bites dog
i thought it was really cool back in high school but now i think it's a bit overrated.

90s french films: la haine, that was good back then, and it's even better now.  i can't belive it's not out on DVD in the US.

but french cinema isn't what it used to be.  i'll take dassin, resnais, renoir, godard, melville, vigo, tati, etc. over any of the recent french directors any day.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Oct 24, 2006 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Tati, dude
Playtime is one of the three most erotic films ever made (along with Scarlet Empress and Black Narcissus).
but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 24, 2006 11:43 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

playtime
that's interesting that i named like seven directors and you went immediately to playtime.  since criterion recently rereleased it, i saw it again just three days ago.  no joke.  

honestly, i don't know why, but i actually prefer monsieur hulot's holiday and mon oncle to playtiime.  i know playtime is considered his best film, and i'm not saying that i don't like it, but i just prefer the other two.  
can i admit that without being shunned by other film snobs?

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Oct 24, 2006 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

no, that's cool
God, though, Playtime is like ... Jerry Lewis trapped inside of Last Year at Marienbad. (And, yes, that means I'm one of those insufferable twits who adores Jerry Lewis.)

Holiday and Oncle are wonderful and charming, but Playtime is rigorous -- it has something that you don't have, xbx. It has a philosophy. And that is what makes it dangerous.

but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 24, 2006 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

"party naked" IS a philosophy
a dangerous one.

i get the philosophy, but isn't it kind of the same as in those other two films?  the other two are lighter films, but the subject matter seems to be similar, playtime seems like the big finale.  
yes, playtime is rigorous, but what separates it from those other two in terms of philosophy or dangerousness (aside from the roof of the nightclub caving in as the place falls apart)?

and what do you mean i don't have a philosophy?

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Oct 24, 2006 9:37 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

SWIIIIIIING -- and a miss!
Bhaskar, Bhaskar, Bhaskar ...

The quote is coming from Pittbsurgh.

OK, that was a little out of left field, but both movies have similar theses about technology.

but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 25, 2006 9:50 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

my bad
i totally missed that.  d'oh!
hey, what did you think of a history of violence?
i was disappointed by how un-cronenbergian it was, and by all the parts of the story that were totally illogical.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Oct 25, 2006 6:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

liked it, with reservations
In general, plot/logic holes bother me far, far less than character holes and genre holes.

What I really enjoyed was the establishment and maintenance of tone (something Cronenberg's always been good at) and the direction of the actors (which Cronenberg -- like De Palma -- is never given enough credit for).

I actually thought it was perfectly Cronenbergy. Especially in how thoughtful it was regarding the relation between the internal and the external.

Definitely a "minor work," though -- his strongest and most important films have always been his own conceptions rather than the adaptations (although I think if his version of American Psycho hadn't gotten stuck in turnaround, it could have been one of the most important films ever; and that's not hyperbole).

but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 26, 2006 10:05 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

last year at marienbad
that and la haine are the two french films that i really hope come out on DVD soon.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Oct 24, 2006 9:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

and Il Conformista
(Italian director, but French production.)
but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 25, 2006 9:51 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah, that too
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Oct 25, 2006 6:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

scarlet empress
i haven't seen it, i should rent it sometime.  
black narcissus is a good one.  
speaking of powell and pressburger, have you seen the life and death of colonel blimp?  that's on my list of top 10 movies i need to see.
i'm not really looking very hard, but i'm having a tough time finding it.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Oct 24, 2006 12:00 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lair of the White Worm
Hugh Grant's debut (if I'm not mistaken) notwithstanding
"Having a vote for 'most clutch' baseball player is like having a vote for 'most real' monster." - Ken Tremendous

by ArakSOT on Oct 24, 2006 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

another Ken Russell fan!
Definitely not Ken's best (he slipped into demented irrelevance right around Crimes of Passion), but still fun. Probably his last watchable film.

Anyone else slavering with anticipation for the reputed Ken Russell boxset?

but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 24, 2006 12:40 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

haven't seen Blimp
That's on my list, too -- along with Edge of the World, Canterbury Tale, et al.

Have you seen Stairway to Heaven?

but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 24, 2006 2:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Can't argue that.
Les Visiteurs was the biggest box office film in French histroy for some time, but now it's Taxi, Taxi II, and Taxi III.

Everything is cars and Luc Besson exec producing and bank robberies and the same ten actors now.

Well, not everything... but plenty.

"It's time to blow this team up." - Oaktoon, July 2006

by Ozzz on Oct 24, 2006 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pauline Kael famously described ...
... La Femme Nikita (which I love nonetheless) as "the end of French cinema."
but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 24, 2006 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You ever see Killing Zoe?
American flick, but with an amazingly French sensibility, that nobody on either side of the pond seemed to like but me.

Eric Roth and Julie Delpy - what's not to love?

"It's time to blow this team up." - Oaktoon, July 2006

by Ozzz on Oct 24, 2006 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

julie delpy
was in kieslowski's white (discussed above).

i'm not a fan, but i believe killing zoe stars eric stolz (not roth), the drug dealer from pulp fiction and the original marty mcfly.  that's heavy stuff.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Oct 24, 2006 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Mental fart.
Right you are.
"It's time to blow this team up." - Oaktoon, July 2006

by Ozzz on Oct 24, 2006 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

nope
I've avoided Avary solely (and unfairly) b/c of the Tarantino association. Probably time for me to get over that and look at his stuff.
but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 24, 2006 2:17 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Abandon Tarantino.
After all, Roger did.
"It's time to blow this team up." - Oaktoon, July 2006

by Ozzz on Oct 24, 2006 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

will do, thanks
And MDB, too -- thanks to all of you for the recs and the good-natured disputes.
but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 24, 2006 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You didn't like Schindler's List?
<calls up Morty and Helen.>

I enjoyed Adaptation, but it had a pretty bad ending.

Altman has made 0 good films since 1970.  

The Searchers is bafflingly overrated.

by mikeA on Oct 24, 2006 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

altman
dude, the player is brilliant.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Oct 24, 2006 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

To quote Dude Where's My Car...
..."and then?"
"It's time to blow this team up." - Oaktoon, July 2006

by Ozzz on Oct 24, 2006 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well
I didn't like it in '91 when I was 10, and haven't seen it since, so I can't really say.

by mikeA on Oct 24, 2006 11:10 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

watch it again
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Oct 24, 2006 12:10 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I 100% agree with that.
Altman is a waste of space. He hit on a gimmick in 1970 and he hasn't swayed from it since. Kind of like the NY Rangers, only less watchable.

and much as I enjoyed Adaptation (and totally dig anything else Kaufman has done), it ended poorly.

"It's time to blow this team up." - Oaktoon, July 2006

by Ozzz on Oct 24, 2006 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

glad to find another Altman H8R
That's actually why I dug Gosford Park -- it was such a (relatively speaking) naked commercial departure for him, and he really pulled it off.

Kaufman is clever, but he's another one who mistakes craft for selling out. BJM had the single biggest intentional structural mistake I've ever seen in a film: having Malkovich himself go through the portal 40 minutes in? The movie had (literally and figuratively) nowhere else to go from there. That moment has to come about 15 minutes before the end of the movie. There's no conceivable motivation to put it earlier except to simply not put it where it's supposed to be.

but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 24, 2006 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sofia Coppola movies
Hear hear!

I want my 10 bucks and 2 hours back for Lost in Translation, the most horribly overrated movie I've ever seen.

Kettlecorn! Swishercorn!

by TurnTwo on Oct 24, 2006 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

how did that win best screenplay
the screenplay must be like fifteen pages long.
i bet she wrote it on the flight back to the US.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Oct 24, 2006 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Similar to The Pianist
which won Best Screenplay with about two lines of dialogue in the whole second half.  And the first half was probably <extras scream>.

by mikeA on Oct 24, 2006 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

<sighs><moans><dying gasp>
That is some Oscar-worthy stuff.

I actually loved that movie, but I didn't remember it winning Best Screenplay. The Academy does makes some interesting choices.

Kettlecorn! Swishercorn!

by TurnTwo on Oct 24, 2006 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

What was great about that screenplay...
..was what wasn't spoken.
"It's time to blow this team up." - Oaktoon, July 2006

by Ozzz on Oct 24, 2006 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If you can't dig the Virgin Suicides...
..then might I suggest the problem lies somewhere in the eye-brain interface.

That flick is fricking gold.

"It's time to blow this team up." - Oaktoon, July 2006

by Ozzz on Oct 24, 2006 11:05 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

do you want to say anything in defense
of that film instead of just trying to offend those who don't like it?
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Oct 24, 2006 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm comfortable with insults.
But okay. The pacing, the imagery, the casting, the story, the music - MAN oh man the music - it's all genius.

Does it involve the standard boy meets girl, boy loses girl, boy and girl hump ever after meme? Not at all. But if you're a kid of the suburbs, who always felt left out and lost and wishing for a means to get the heck out, there's stuff in VS that'll rattle your saber, baby.

And if not, if you're looking for less thinky stuff, then it's obviously doody.

"It's time to blow this team up." - Oaktoon, July 2006

by Ozzz on Oct 24, 2006 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

so if i don't like it
that means i'm looking for less thinky stuff?
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Oct 24, 2006 11:17 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just because there's 1 and 1 in 2....
..doesn't mean every number with a 1 and a 1 in it equals 2.

Sorta like how, just because every European movie you watch has humping, doesn't mean every European movie ahs humping.

"It's time to blow this team up." - Oaktoon, July 2006

by Ozzz on Oct 24, 2006 11:23 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

hey, that's the same meaningless comment
about european movies I watch that you made earlier.

it was a rhetorical question, i didn't mean me specifically.  i was just commenting on the fact that you can't seem to discuss movies in this thread (specifically, a certain movie by sofia coppola) without using insulting language.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Oct 24, 2006 11:45 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ya know...
...There are movies that are just plain bad. Those movies, if people dig them, sorry, but I think it reflects poorly on the person.

Then there are movies I don't like. Doesn't mean they're bad movies, but they just don't connect with me. And if someone likes one of those, no biggie, because I can see the skill that went into it, and the point they were trying to make, but it just didn't hook me. I can still appreciate it for what it is.

That's what it takes to be a film critic. The ability to say "Yeah, didn't connect with me, but it wasn't FOR me." The ability to say, "Yeah, it was built up too much by people, but I can stand aside from that and judge it under my own system of likes and dislikes, and I like."

When people outright call a good, well-made flick that tried to do something different "crap" or "over-rated", they're not doing anything more than wildly flipping off something without considering their own situation - or worse, they're flipping something off because many others liked it.

To me, that's infantile. And it's worthy or derision. "Over-rated" is an easy insult for a film, but it doesn't mean anything beyond "I didn't get it like other people did," or "I was disappointed in it because it was built up by others."

People put two or three (or five or ten) years of their life into making good indie films, and when they're written off so casually as "it's pretentious" without ever looking beyond the slow-pacing or lack of a three-act-structure, to me that's just being mean for the sake of it.

And as the guy who started the largest single database of professionally-written exclusive film reviews in the world today, I'm a little protective of those filmmakers that try to go beyond the bland that fills so much of our cinema screens.

Make sense?

"It's time to blow this team up." - Oaktoon, July 2006

by Ozzz on Oct 24, 2006 12:01 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

poor sofia coppola
i don't appreciate her good indie films.  
well, she is francis ford coppola's daughter, so i doubt she'll lose much sleep over it.

but what if sofia coppola is part of the bland that fills our cinema screens?  isn't that also a possibility?

is marie antionette a good indie film?  if not, can i at least bash that?

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Oct 24, 2006 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's not her best.
And just because someone was born into cash, doesn't mean she's worthy of a kicking.

Least not in my book.

"It's time to blow this team up." - Oaktoon, July 2006

by Ozzz on Oct 24, 2006 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

it's not just being born into cash
i doubt she has had a rough time getting her indie movies made given her family connections (frances ford coppola, nicolas cage, talia shire, jason schwartzman, marriage to spike jonze since '99), so the poor indie film director trying to make it in hollywood thing doesn't really work.

i'm sure frances could sell a few extra bottles of wine if she needs some funding.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Oct 24, 2006 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You don't seem to get it.
Francis doesn't just 'get a film made' out of the will to do so. In fact, if you look through his history, he's blown through just about everything he's ever earned, by trying to fund indie films and filmmakers, set up mini indie studios to help those people find funding, and other labors of love that ain't too profitable (IE: wine).

Virgin Suicides - financed outside of dad's company.
Lost in Translation - ditto, and shot on a tight budget, in quick time, due to lack of cash.

You wanna put shit on a filmmaker? Start with the guys that REALLY don't have to sweat it, like Sandler.

"It's time to blow this team up." - Oaktoon, July 2006

by Ozzz on Oct 24, 2006 12:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was referring to Lost in Translation only
I haven't seen The Virgin Suicides yet, but I believe it will be at the top of my Netflix queue fairly soon.

I've read the book and I'm looking forward to seeing it.

Kettlecorn! Swishercorn!

by TurnTwo on Oct 24, 2006 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Only if you mean
the gold in the green and gold colors of "Pathetics Nation."

Pretentious, empty, and insufferably didactic.

by mikeA on Oct 24, 2006 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ah, pretention.
The last refuge of the "I didn't get it" crowd.
"It's time to blow this team up." - Oaktoon, July 2006

by Ozzz on Oct 24, 2006 11:18 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ha
As I recall, it was uptight parents=fucks up the kids.  Brilliant.

by mikeA on Oct 24, 2006 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I can see where you'd find that pretentious.
If pretentious had an entirely different definition to what it, like, does.
"It's time to blow this team up." - Oaktoon, July 2006

by Ozzz on Oct 24, 2006 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well,
my last post went more to the "insufferably didactic" part.

by mikeA on Oct 24, 2006 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, okay.
I'll give you that. Though I can suffer through much didactism.
"It's time to blow this team up." - Oaktoon, July 2006

by Ozzz on Oct 24, 2006 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pretentious in that
Ms. Coppola evidently found her story unique and interesting when that is not in fact the case.

by mikeA on Oct 24, 2006 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

So you can point out five similar films?
Or were you only referring to the 'interesting' part, and not the 'original'?
"It's time to blow this team up." - Oaktoon, July 2006

by Ozzz on Oct 24, 2006 11:48 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

amen, brother
I loathed it on first viewing.

Kevin Spacey is one of those actors (like Gene Hackman or John C. O'Reilly) who has zero range, but gets cast repeatedly on the strength of demonstrated audience affection for the single character he's capable of playing.

but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 24, 2006 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

yak
No "O'": John C. Reilly.
but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 24, 2006 10:26 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wouldn't knock Hackman
His performances in The Conversation (one of my 5 favorite movies) and The French Connection are quite different and both superb.

by mikeA on Oct 24, 2006 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

true, dat
I think The Conversation is good, but not the minor masterpiece it's made out to be.

Hackman's good, and useful -- but he's never had much range, and that's gotten worse as he's gotten older (cf Jones, Tommy Lee).

but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 24, 2006 10:43 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hackman does what has carried him thru.
Like Pacino or DeNiro, they've really got no reason to change and reinvent the wheel.

But then, who really does? The day I see William H. Macy (who is the nicest guy in the world, ever) play a real bad guy is the day I pick hellfire to follow.

"It's time to blow this team up." - Oaktoon, July 2006

by Ozzz on Oct 24, 2006 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

try Edmond
I haven't, and I'm not likely to (I find Mamet to be a tired act -- though he, too, is a nice guy; I've served both him and Macy lunch, eons ago), but it's definitely a casting both with and against type.
but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 24, 2006 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Early Mamet beats all.
Glengarry Glen Ross gives me chills. Just insanely great writing. The Spanish Prisoner ditto.

But yeah, he's lost it now.

Interesting side note, I interviewed Macy a few years back in Denver at a film fest, and his publicist ditched my interview at the last moment. Macy finds out, tracks me down, takes me and a buddy to dinner and interviews for two hours, pays the bill, then offers us a ride to the premier of The Cooler in his limo - so we do that, get led to the balcony seats in this packed movie house, and there I am for the duration, next to the man himself and Felciity Huffman.

What really ruled about it is, my arch enemy in the film journalism world was sitting in the cheap seats and I spotted him, mouth agape, as the spotlight shone on us during the intro. Fun times.

Suffice to say, Macy got a favorable article out of it.

"It's time to blow this team up." - Oaktoon, July 2006

by Ozzz on Oct 24, 2006 11:51 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

great story
Is your arch enemy a malefic baby with a unibrow?
but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 24, 2006 12:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Some would say.
But closer to a relentlessly self-promoting swine with a penchant for buggery.
"It's time to blow this team up." - Oaktoon, July 2006

by Ozzz on Oct 24, 2006 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

glengarry and the spanish prisoner
are both so amazing.  
i don't know if mamet has completely lost it, state and main was halfway decent, and the winslow boy is a pleasant little movie.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Oct 24, 2006 1:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, but Hannibal?
Oy.
"It's time to blow this team up." - Oaktoon, July 2006

by Ozzz on Oct 24, 2006 1:39 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

that may be true
but it's not reason enough by itself to loath a movie.

spacey: seven, usual suspects
reilly: boogie nights, hard eight
hackman: the conversation, royal tenenbaums

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Oct 24, 2006 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

loathe
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Oct 24, 2006 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

What? Not enough car chases?
"It's time to blow this team up." - Oaktoon, July 2006

by Ozzz on Oct 24, 2006 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Gack.
This should have been in reply to another post.

Carry on.

"It's time to blow this team up." - Oaktoon, July 2006

by Ozzz on Oct 24, 2006 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm enjoying myself ...
... trying to imagine the most inapt post for this to have been a response.
but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 24, 2006 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah.
I figured I'd leave it open-ended.

Kind of like laughing at a joke "from before", but not telling anyone which joke.

"It's time to blow this team up." - Oaktoon, July 2006

by Ozzz on Oct 24, 2006 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

No, it's not; you're right
I'm a huge fan of typecasting and second lead/character actors -- and all three guys are definitely that -- but not when they get cast and praised inappropriately (and your examples are all note-perfect casting).

I see you and I are going to have some problems. Adding to my overrated list:

  • Wes Anderson (though I do really like Rushmore)
  • Paul Thomas Anderson (good at tension in individual scenes, but lousy at structuring entire films)
but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 24, 2006 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

the andersons
wes: bottle rocket, rushmore, and royal tenenbaums are all great.  i think he was right up there with the best directors of our era at that point.  the life aquatic was horrible, i dragged like 10 people to it on opening night and i was really disappointed.

p.t.: i love punch drunk love and like boogie nights and hard eight.  i really dislike magnolia.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Oct 24, 2006 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I've seen Life Aquatic maybe three times now.
And it gets better with every viewing.

The reason you were disappointed with it, I'll wager, is that you were REALLY looking forward to it.

I was too, and when other things stopped me from seeing it opening night, and I heard negative reviews of it, it lowered my expectations to the point where I was plesantly surprised by it, and it's just built on me from there.

In fact, I'd say, other than Bottle Rocket, it's just about my favorite WA film.

"It's time to blow this team up." - Oaktoon, July 2006

by Ozzz on Oct 24, 2006 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

i haven't seen it since
i own all the others and watch them from time to time, but i have no desire to see life aquatic again.  
you're right, my expectations were too high, but i also went into rushmore and royal tenenbaums with high expectations, and they were exceeded.  the best thing about the life aquatic was the trailer for it.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Oct 24, 2006 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Give it a shot.
It's got a heart that takes a while to make itself evident.
"It's time to blow this team up." - Oaktoon, July 2006

by Ozzz on Oct 24, 2006 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

search and destroy
the one part i really liked was the escape from the pirates.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Oct 24, 2006 2:27 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree with all of that
Tenenbaums and Punch Drunk Love are easily two of my favorites from the last 10 years, and Bottle Rocket, Rushmore, and Boogie Nights are all great.

Part of the problem (though there are many) with Life Aquatic is that that Bill Murray role has become a tired act.

by mikeA on Oct 24, 2006 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

bill murray
becoming a tired act, and taken to the extreme in life aquatic.  
it just seemed like they were really desperate to get murray an oscar nom.

also, and this is relatively minor stuff, but owen wilson's kentucky accent was horrible, and is it just me or did cate blanchett's lips not move at all?  perhaps she got botox shots.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Oct 24, 2006 2:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, please.
Anderson is fine at structuring entire films - he just does it differently to most.

We don't all live our lives in three-act structures. Sometimes shit happens that comes out of nowhere, sometimes shit happens that means nothing.

I can agree with you if you tell me Robert Altman directs like a limp rag, but I've gotta stand up for PTA - Boogie Nights is one cool ass movie, and I saw people reduced to crying puddles of goo in Magnolia.

"It's time to blow this team up." - Oaktoon, July 2006

by Ozzz on Oct 24, 2006 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

"structure" doesn't have to mean 3-act
The Scarlet Empress, for example, and Lisztomania both have structures like Apollo rocket launches (literally, in the case of the latter). Blow Out has a great, great, great framing-device structure; Raising Cain interpolates that to a giddy, preposterous degree. Something more modest and shapeless like Friends With Money succeeds because of its apparent lack of structure (and the skill of its writing).

PTA is exceptionally skilled at building tension and emotion within scenes and from one scene directly to another -- that whole "Sister Christian"-scored scene in BN out-Scorseses Scorsese.

But I haven't been impressed with his overall structures -- many/most of his scenes move nicely from one to the other, but there's no overall payoff.

but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 24, 2006 12:29 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

For anyone familiar with the book...
I hope they stick with the ending.

by mikeA on Oct 24, 2006 10:13 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I fully agree (SPOILERS)
it is a real point in Bond's character what happens when they are captured (which looks like happens in the trailer), he's tortured while thinking of what they're doing to Vesper, only to find they've left her alone and done nothing.

Then it all makes sense when she writes him the suicide note, kills herself, and reveals that she's been a double agent (due to a loved one held hostage) and decides to end it because Bond was serious (I don't really think he was though) about marrying Vesper, and she couldn't take betraying him.

Neverminding the dozens of agents she must have got killed by the information she leaked to SMERSH.

by Zonis on Oct 24, 2006 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Managerial updates.
Not much in the way of one, but the CC Times acknowledges that the A's will eventually hire one.

Only two things of note I glommed from this, really.  One is that Wash and Geren will have interviews next week.  The other is that Orel Hershiser is a legitimate possibility (although he may not be interviewed??):

Beane said it's safe to say that ESPN analyst Orel Hershiser -- whom the A's were going to interview last October before re-hiring Macha -- would be on the master list of candidates, but won't necessarily get an interview.
"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 24, 2006 9:28 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

TLR out of character
I can't imagine the La Russa we used to know rolling over on an opportunity to gain ground on an opponent.  The only explanation that makes sense to me is that he didn't want to expose his own pitching staff, which is probably doing the same thing as KR did.  The "code of baseball" trumps the desire to win?  
"Put me down and I'll walk off the field." -- Bradley to Macha, 9/06

by skigurl on Oct 24, 2006 9:32 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

<forehead vein bulges, throbs>
"Maybe this is all fallout from the Clinton-Lewinsky scandal"?!?

Fuck you, Luft, you sporktastic triple-chinned pixel-stained wretch.

Doctoring a baseball: literally illicit, a violation of unambiguous, written, ratified code of conduct; with specific penalties to be meted out on discovery of violation.

Getting a hummer from someone to whom you're not betrothed: prohibited by law nowhere but the most Talibanneriffic of sovereign states.

<resists urge to draw more relevant parallel to more recent parsdinchal masfeasance>

but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 24, 2006 10:10 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

So
are you at least conceding that Clinton deserves the blame for those awful truck ads Macha and Kotsay did?
Some are sabermetricians.

by andeux on Oct 24, 2006 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hummer wanted to use Kielty
But Macha went with Kots to do the ads, much to Hummer's displeasure.
"so... I'll take that as 'none of your business'" ~ ArakSOT

by eamb on Oct 24, 2006 10:21 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Except for the British commercials.
Since the driver's seat is on the right side there.
"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 24, 2006 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I love a good British Hummer
But I refuse to drive.
"so... I'll take that as 'none of your business'" ~ ArakSOT

by eamb on Oct 24, 2006 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I love a good British banger
but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 24, 2006 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You made me bubble and squeak.
"It's time to blow this team up." - Oaktoon, July 2006

by Ozzz on Oct 24, 2006 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

but then I gave you spotted dick
but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 24, 2006 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Right in my black pudding.
"It's time to blow this team up." - Oaktoon, July 2006

by Ozzz on Oct 24, 2006 11:41 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Knock me up
when you want a nice round of conkers....
"I had to turn my weaknesses into my strengths." -- Milton Bradley, October 6, 2006

by Englishmajor on Oct 24, 2006 12:04 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

So Kielty
didnt get the hummer(ad) because Macha gave the hummer(ad) to Kotsay? You dont say! Maybe thats why Kotsay was bitter after Macha left. No more Hummers for Mr. Kotsay.  

by Amnesiac727 on Oct 24, 2006 10:33 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

funny yet valid point
I actually think that reintroducing "hummer" into the national discourse played an appreciable role in the sales success of the vehicle.

Well, that and cheap gas, the absence of major wars, and the go-go Clinton/Internet economy.

but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 24, 2006 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I get your point
but I believe Luft is referring to the "I did not have ...." issue.
On Sunday, Minaya ticked off a list of candidates to join the rotation, and for once this season, none of them was Jose Lima.

by rfloh on Oct 24, 2006 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

you could be right
I thought he was riffing on the "cheating"/"everyone does it" angle.
but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 24, 2006 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rogers
should admit to the pine tar, but dismiss it as a "youthful indiscretion." (Appropriately, he is 41 now, as was Henry Hyde.)
Some are sabermetricians.

by andeux on Oct 24, 2006 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hey Luft...
"[Frank's] a big battler. He's the mother of battleships."

-Nick Swisher

by kaweahkaweah on Oct 24, 2006 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Clinton clearly violated Presidential Rule 8.02
According to rule 8.02(a)(2), (4) and (5), the
pitcher
President shall not:
(2)
expectorate
ejaculate on the
ball
dress, either hand or his glove;
(4) apply a foreign substance of any kind to the
ball
dress; [or]
(5) deface the
ball
dress in any manner.

According to the penalties set forth in the Official

Baseball
Presidential Rules, "For violation of any part of Rules 8.02(a)(2) through (6): (a) The
pitcher
President shall be
ejected
impeached immediately from the game and shall be
suspended
investigated by Ken Starr automatically for 10
games
months."
"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 24, 2006 10:45 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

<espresso on keyboard>
but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 24, 2006 10:47 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wishful thinking, Monkeyball
Getting a hummer from someone to whom you're not betrothed: prohibited by law nowhere but the most Talibanneriffic of sovereign states.

Clinton's dalliance was before Lawrence v Texas, which means his act was still illegal in nine of 50 U.S. states, including nearby Virginia.

"...but we're also always open to hearing about other sandwiches if it can make our lunch better." -- Nico, channeling Billy Beane

by iglew on Oct 25, 2006 1:27 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

and I'd still call those 9 states Talibanneriffic
That was my point.
but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 25, 2006 9:47 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was watching the ALCS games last night
Cause I am crazy and I like to torture myself!! (Actually, I was working on recording them to DVD to get them off my TiVo, same thing!) And I was watching Game 3 and Kenny Rogers, and I kept harping on pausing the screen to see his hand! I just kept getting more and more pissed off about it! My biggest issue is it was so obvious, how was it not found sooner, and what other less obvious ways are the Tigers cheating?? >:-(

Anyway, yes I am sick of hearing about it cause I am just getting more and more angry about it. But I don't want it to go away because maybe it will cause the Umps and Tony to be a bit more on their toes to find the OTHER things the Tigers are doing!

(this is not meant to imply that the Tigers are cheating in any other ways, I am just saying that it makes me wonder and frankly, I wouldn't be able to believe them if they said Kenny was the ONLY one cheating!)

- Just my 2 Cents!

"This is the best hug in the major leagues, right here!" - Swisher Pics

by BobbyCrosbysGirl on Oct 24, 2006 10:34 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Maybe they'll both be yelling at each other
in DC next year.
"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 24, 2006 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Very nice letter by Payton.
On Sunday, Minaya ticked off a list of candidates to join the rotation, and for once this season, none of them was Jose Lima.

by rfloh on Oct 24, 2006 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I wonder if he signs all
of his correspondence like that:
Thanks.

Jay Payton

Oakland A's outfielder

"so... I'll take that as 'none of your business'" ~ ArakSOT

by eamb on Oct 24, 2006 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sometimes Jay Payton really impresses me.
"There's not a moment of peace and quiet in this damn clubhouse." ~~ Nick Swisher

by luvsthecurveball on Oct 24, 2006 11:01 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I love Payton.
He's my Scutaro. I know that there are better players and better deals out there, but I want him on my team.
Kettlecorn! Swishercorn!

by TurnTwo on Oct 24, 2006 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I thought this was pretty stand-up of Jay
Can't remember if I have ever seen a player write a letter to editor.
Wonder if he just wrote his ticket out of Oakland?

by LongTimeFan on Oct 24, 2006 11:38 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Awww...
That is so nice of him!
"This is the best hug in the major leagues, right here!" - Swisher Pics

by BobbyCrosbysGirl on Oct 24, 2006 12:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

JayPay ...
... was my first baseball crush way back when he was patrolling center field for the Mets. I loved him and his little bubble butt.

Good for him to write the letter. It's nice to see that some of the players are complete asses.

"Yeah, I think I hit a kid." - Rich Harden (regarding sailing the ball into the stands.)

by heartsforharden on Oct 24, 2006 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Steve Philips chat
Dan (Escondido, CA): Steve, when you were the GM of the Mets, what baseball event did you look most forward too? Winter meetings, GM Meetings?

SportsNation Steve Phillips: (1:49 PM ET ) In this order .. I liked the Winter Meetings, Trade Deadline and Spring Training. The winter meetings and trade deadline were ivigorating because of the potential deals you could make. My staff would really shine during that time, trying to identify the best direction for the organization. I also loved spring training. Everyone was together and you got a sense of what went into building everything at the major league level. Plus, I enjoy the day games during spring training because it allowed more family time in the evenings which you dont get much of during the season.

No mention of the draft.  Huh.

Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Oct 24, 2006 11:06 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Potential deals like
Mo Vaughn.
On Sunday, Minaya ticked off a list of candidates to join the rotation, and for once this season, none of them was Jose Lima.

by rfloh on Oct 24, 2006 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

New York team.
Any young talent that slips through your drafts is fodder for trades.
"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 24, 2006 11:12 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

IIRC
Phillips likes to take credit for David Wright.
On Sunday, Minaya ticked off a list of candidates to join the rotation, and for once this season, none of them was Jose Lima.

by rfloh on Oct 24, 2006 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

i miss A's baseball. *sigh*
it's going to be a long winter!

by gotgreen on Oct 24, 2006 11:11 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Interesting JoeChat today.
Morgan crushed Kenny Rogers for cheating, and came as close to criticizing LaRussa for it as he can, given his policy of not criticizing people "who played the game."  I wonder if FJM will do anything with it.  I totally agree with everything Morgan said about it.

Link (sub req'd):  http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=13331

Neyer, on the other hand, played it off as nothing:

http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/chatESPN?event_id=13338

"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 24, 2006 11:11 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

i think leland cheated as well.
After thinking about this whole "Dirtgate" situation for the past couple days it dawned on me.  Leland had to have known the Rogers was cheating, and even worse, I'm almost POSITIVE that helped Rogers cheat.  Think about it.  What other explanation is there for Leland's strange pitching lineups?

Against the Yankees, he had Robertson start game 1.  Robertson is not even the best left-handed pitcher on the Tigers, let alone the best pitcher.  Just look at the numbers.  Then Rogers gets the start AT HOME.  He pitches lights out with evidence that he had that mysterious substance on his hand.

Against our A's, again, it was Robertson and Verlander starting game 1 & 2.  We were all saying that was the stupidist thing Leland could've done because of Kenny Rogers' history pitching the the Collesium. Then Leland sends him out for game 3 in Detroit and he again pitches lights out with evidence of that mysterious substance on his hand.

So that same rotation that was working so well against the Yankee and A's magically gets changed up in the World Series.  Now instead of Kenny Rogers pitching game 3, you have him pitching game 2?  And it just so happens that the first two games are in Detroit.  Hmm...coincidence?  I doubt it.

It's becoming more and more obvious that not only did Rogers cheat, Leland obviously knew he was cheating and was conspiring with him.  Leland is not a genius for setting up the rotations the way he did against the Yankees and our A's, he was just trying to get Rogers to pitch at home, knowing he could get that substance on his hand at home.  Any respect I had for Leland as a manager goes flying out the door after this weekend.  It makes me wonder how many times he cheated to achieve his other accomplishments?

by truelements on Oct 24, 2006 11:37 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Rogers and Leland...
Most baseball players and managers have been "cheating", aka, looking for an advantage, for 100+ Years.

Signed,

Pine Tar
Vasoline
Sand Paper
Corked Bats
Humidors
Steriods
Greenies
Stealing Signs
1951 Giants
Black Sox

COME ON, OAKLAND, COME ON!

by Colorado Fan on Oct 24, 2006 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

lying and cheating
i'm annoyed that jacob luft thinks it's ok to cheat and lie, and it's only too bad that society suddenly thinks these are bad things.  

wha!?  so what do you want your kids thinking?  any behavior is ok as long as you see enough other people doing it?  

i'm also mad that the whole world thinks rogers was using pine tar and that the umpires, cardinals, and mlb didn't do anything about it and worse are trying to play it off like they did it for the good of the game and the world series.  

if they really think it's no big deal that pitchers use pine tar, then change the rules.

by beijing on Oct 24, 2006 12:03 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

That says it all
if they really think it's no big deal that pitchers use pine tar, then change the rules.
Ho hum. Just another day for the OAKLAND ATHLETICS OF AWESOME! ~Kyli

by baseballgirl on Oct 24, 2006 12:29 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Wow.
I think that the site somehow got switched to imdbnation.com.
"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 24, 2006 1:11 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

hey, better that than ...
... muldersassnation.com.
but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 24, 2006 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I likes me a little Mulder sass.
"Chavy?  He's about as bad-ass as a kitten."
"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 24, 2006 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Or
mulder-assnation.com, as in "once-proud, now not so much."

by mikeA on Oct 24, 2006 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Odd choice.
He only gets to negotiate with one team.  Having Boras as your agent in such a situation could be a recipe for disaster.  I only vaguely recall how the posting system works, but thought it amounted to a blind auction for the signing rights, then negotiation with the winning team.
"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 24, 2006 3:25 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why is this a recipe for disaster?
Boras usually gets his clients what they want.
On Sunday, Minaya ticked off a list of candidates to join the rotation, and for once this season, none of them was Jose Lima.

by rfloh on Oct 25, 2006 1:38 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Boras' strength is playing teams off each other
in this situation, he wouldn't get to do so--it's more akin to when he represents draft picks.  He drives his hard bargain, and if the team doesn't capitulate, the players remains unsigned.
"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 25, 2006 10:14 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I believe
Boras' strength is getting his clients what they want.

Nonetheless, while the bid is blind, not every part of the process itself is truly blind. The Yankees, according to news reports, for example have been expending a lot of effort kissing up to Matsuzaka's friends. I would assume the reason to do so would be to have an idea of just how much money Matsuzaka wants, thus allowing a team to bid accordingly.

Furthemore, there is also the unwritten assumption that a team that wins the bid will actually make a good faith attempt to sign Matsuzaka. In other words, if you can't or won't pay him, then don't bid.

Lastly, Matsuzaka has only 1 year left on his contract, so he does have leverage.

On Sunday, Minaya ticked off a list of candidates to join the rotation, and for once this season, none of them was Jose Lima.

by rfloh on Oct 25, 2006 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

does this mean that ...
... Nico will be posting a diary about how Matsuzaka is flipping off the entire US (and Japan, for that matter)?
but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 24, 2006 3:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Konichiwa to ME, motherf#$%ers!
"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 24, 2006 3:51 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

More Matsuzaka.
Jim Callis absolutely loves him:
Without hesitation, I would take Matsuzaka over Zito or Schmidt or any other pitcher who will be on the free-agent market this offseason. Similarly, if Matsuzaka does come over, he has to rank as the game's best pitching prospect. His stuff is in the same class as Philip Hughes (Yankees) or Homer Bailey (Reds), and he has proven himself at a higher level.
"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 24, 2006 4:23 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

speaking of pitchers
someone mentioned the larry dierker blog earlier, so i checked it out, and found this article about the A's...

http://blogs.chron.com/larrydierker/2006/07/moneyball.html

Zito - my favorite.

by catfish hunter on Oct 24, 2006 4:26 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs