Got Mulder?

No

I'm sick of damaged goods. We need someone who can throw several innings and not get hurt.

"[Frank's] a big battler. He's the mother of battleships."

-Nick Swisher

by kaweahkaweah on Oct 18, 2006 8:10 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Durability is a oversaturated market, I believe Beane is thinking. It just costs too much. Thats why I think he's trying to exploit depth, and injury prone players who have ridiculously high potential.

"It is like Menudo, where guys reach a certain age and are kicked out of the band. And they go on to be Ricky Martins somewhere else." -Billy Beane

by WhiteElephantGuy on Oct 18, 2006 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Damaged Goods Like Frank Thomas?

by Eck on Oct 18, 2006 9:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Should the A's sign Mulder to

a incentive based multiyear deal? 3 years, $5 million base, $21 million if he hits all the incentives.

On Sunday, Minaya ticked off a list of candidates to join the rotation, and for once this season, none of them was Jose Lima.

by rfloh on Oct 18, 2006 8:14 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I would...

do that. I mean he was injured. Thats why he was a disaster.

by CyZito on Oct 18, 2006 8:23 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Mulder

He's not getting more than a 1-Year Deal...from anyone.

COME ON, OAKLAND, COME ON!

by Colorado Fan on Oct 18, 2006 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe

Gammons is already saying that teams are considering giving Mulder a two year deal in the Lieber/Carpenter sense. It does make sense for a team; give a guy a small amount the first year and a larger amount the second year when hi islikely to be healthier. Gammons may be wrong sometimes (Crosby), but he has access to a lot of GMs and the fact that he is reporting this probably means he heard it from GMs. I would hope the A's would not do this, we need to spend our money elsewhere.

I still think the Big Hurt kicks ass.

by BlameChannel53 on Oct 18, 2006 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Gammons

said something a couple weeks back about Muler being one of the more intiguing free agent pitchers out there. intriguing doesnt equal big contract, but id imagne someone gives him more than we're willing to.

by the stare on Oct 18, 2006 2:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Exactly

If you sign Mulder for 1 year, you're likely to be paying for his medical and rehab bills. Then, once he is "fixed", he goes elsewhere.

On Sunday, Minaya ticked off a list of candidates to join the rotation, and for once this season, none of them was Jose Lima.

by rfloh on Oct 19, 2006 6:06 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I would love to see Lilly back,

He's a damn fine pitcher. I expect his asking price to be way overvalued given the FA pool, though.

Mulder, though... Honestly, the sentimental side of me loves it because I love that man, but even the pragmatic part of me is a bit interested. I don't think it would happen think I think some team out there'll be willing to take a bigger chance on the track record.

But depending what the team doctors say, if he was willing to sign a Frank-esque incentive-laden 1- or 2- year deal? Can't really lose out too much on that, if it does look like he'll be ready to go for the beginning of the season. It'd be far more sensible to take a shot on that than a lot of other options.

If Mulder wants serious guaranteed money, though... Screw that.

"This must be heaven," he says.
"No. It's Oakland."

by Kyli on Oct 18, 2006 8:20 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

The problem with an incentive deal

is that we will come to depend on the guy to take a spot in the rotation. If he fails to perform, which given Mulder's recent history of ailments both known and unknown is not unlikely, we will be scrambling once again to fill his spot with a Jason Windsor or Brad Halsey.

"[Frank's] a big battler. He's the mother of battleships."

-Nick Swisher

by kaweahkaweah on Oct 18, 2006 8:25 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Mulder scenario is intriguing

but like others have already indicated here, I'm not totally convinced he'll be undervalued enough in the marketplace to be affordable. It really depends what the medical reports are on him as the offseason progresses; if they're positive enough, then there'll be other clubs with more breathing-room financially who'd maybe take a shot on a one or two year deal with a higher base than we would/could offer, just based on age and track record prior to the spate of injuries that derailed this past season and affected him the year before, too.
Lilly wouldn't be a bad idea either, but in a free agent market that looks tight on quality starters again this year he'll probably command more guaranteed money and years than Beane can offer him.
Never know, though. I'm sure Beane wants a lefty in the rotation (who doesn't?!) so you can't rule out either idea, but I'd be more inclined to think he'll give Kennedy a shot at the rotation (though I think he's proven he's better in a relief role now) or have some other "under the radar" guys in mind...
I wouldn't be averse to either Mulder or Lilly though- they both have their question marks attached, but then that's why we're even thinking it could happen, right?

by still bills kingdom on Oct 18, 2006 8:54 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

perhaps a low base pay with

considerable incentives for one year might be something to consider. If it didn't work out the A's would still need to bring in someone that they're considering anyway...and you can never have too much pitching (either for the roster, in training in the minors, and as trade bait).

by OaklandSi on Oct 18, 2006 8:56 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

If Mulder was brought back

it would be on a Frank Thomas type 1 year deal.

by Zonis on Oct 18, 2006 8:58 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I'd take Lilly over Mulder

To be honest. Mulder was in steep decline even by the time he left the A's, and now that his arms all amess I wouldn't touch that unless it were like a really low risk type deal. We're talking Frank Thomas or Wade Miller type deals.

there's simply no club like the white elephant club

by walk off bunt on Oct 18, 2006 9:09 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I agree

Mulder only in a one year, low base-high incentive deal.

If they're willing to spend more, go after Lilly.

by OaklandSi on Oct 18, 2006 9:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

mulder also burned some bridges when he left

with some chirpy comments about the a's as an organization. that being said, if he'd take a thomas-esque contract (if he passes our training staff's approval - and hopefully we're talking about a new training staff after this year's organization-wide injury problem), we have nothing to lose. but, you know somebody will offer him a better contract, on his 2001-mid 2004 reputation. if lilly would accept a reasonable contract, that would be a very smart pickup. he pitched very well at times last year, and has talked about playing in the bay area again.

"welcome to ME, motherf*^*er!" - tim hudson

by guy incognito on Oct 18, 2006 9:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

a new training staff

headed by former Giants training head Stan Conte?

That would be a great move.

by OaklandSi on Oct 18, 2006 10:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Forget Stan Conte

I want Victor Conte. I heard he has some magic pills.

More than just ANtics: http://www.louisgray.com/live/

by louismg on Oct 18, 2006 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

abso-freaking-lutely

pretty much any training staff that has a track record of not having many of their top MLB players, along with virutally every one of their top minor league prospects, suffer major injuries in one year will do. and a hard-ass trainer that tells blanton and kennedy to drop 20 pounds each in the offseason.

"welcome to ME, motherf*^*er!" - tim hudson

by guy incognito on Oct 18, 2006 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

And if Blanton tells the hard-ass trainer

to f*** himself? This are highly paid baseball playersw with guaranteed contracts, not high school or college football players.

On Sunday, Minaya ticked off a list of candidates to join the rotation, and for once this season, none of them was Jose Lima.

by rfloh on Oct 19, 2006 6:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

then blaton's a wise ass know it all

blaton is young, not exactly established and if someone who is established in their field tells him to drop 20 lbs to improve his pitching. i would think he'd be likely to listen. needless to say improved pitcing = imporoved pay.

by methodrampage on Oct 19, 2006 11:09 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Don't know about Blanton...

Some guys might actually pitch better big and burly like a softball league player. Mickey Lolich and a few other guys seemed to be comfortable and stable out there with a big gut on them.

by Salvatore on Oct 19, 2006 12:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

bottom line is

some GM will pay mulder more than he's worth. he's not coming back.

lilly would be interesting since it would probably only be between the a's and the giants if he really wants to return to the bay area.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Oct 18, 2006 9:43 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I'm all for it

but I agree with you that Mulder is going to get paid regardless of the injury. I see a 3 yr/$30M deal in his future, possibly with the Red Sox.

"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 18, 2006 10:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I wouldn't go that far

I see some teams stretching out like 13/2 possibly. Someone's going to overpay for what is a very, very, very flawed pitcher at this point, but most teams probably recognize that he's a flawed pitcher nonetheless, without perhaps knowing just how flawed.

there's simply no club like the white elephant club

by walk off bunt on Oct 18, 2006 10:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Never underestimate

the power of being young, left-handed, and "a good athlete."

"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 18, 2006 10:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

"probably"?

So you're not 100% ruling out all the other Bay Area teams?

but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 18, 2006 10:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Warriors need a center.

Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Oct 18, 2006 10:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Kind of like some GM

did with Loaiza last year?

by IndianaAsfan on Oct 18, 2006 7:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Who isn't a head case these days?

by Salvatore on Oct 18, 2006 10:00 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Loaiza

It's not happening with Lilly or Mulder. There were question marks when Beane got Loaiza with people saying, "he's finding Zito's replacement a year early." We seemingly already had enough pitching going into '06 (if you assumed Harden's health), and yet Beane got a 200-inning starter anyway...KNOWING that he wouldn't have the resources to sign one when Zito left because the market has priced us out.
You can't find anyone even Loaiza-quality on the market anymore for his price; there's less pitching depth on the FA market now than there was last year.
Our pitching basically is what it is. From the group of Jerome Williams, Komine, Guaudin, Windsor, Kennedy, Halsey, Dan Meyer...someone needs to step up and make 30 starts.
That's not that intimidating. It's a big group, someone will step up.

by calpolyjackson on Oct 18, 2006 10:08 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

None of those options is a young stud

that you'd be blocking with a low-risk 1-year Mulder deal. They're all retreads or 2nd/3rd tier prospects, or coming off injuries. IF Mulder could be had for a Thomas-like deal, I don't see why you wouldn't try it. Worst case scenario is that you're back to the list you presented and out a million or so on Mulder.

P.S. I think another team will overpay for Mulder. Whoever bids on Zito and doesn't get him will be in the hunt.

by boilerdan on Oct 18, 2006 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Gaudin

I consider him a young stud.

COME ON, OAKLAND, COME ON!

by Colorado Fan on Oct 18, 2006 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

possibly

if he can learn to throw good offspeed pitches and work on his control this offseason, i see him as the frontrunner for the open spot in the rotation. he's got plenty of stuff, and after pitching in a lot of high pressure situations this season, hopefully the moxie.

"welcome to ME, motherf*^*er!" - tim hudson

by guy incognito on Oct 18, 2006 11:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Offspeed pitches are learned

in game situations. Throwing them in bullpen sessions is totally different than in a game because offspeed pitches require feel and a proper grip. Both of these are affected by nerves and adrenaline.

by IndianaAsfan on Oct 18, 2006 7:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

yes

gaudin 1st, windsor 2nd, lilly at 7 million per X 2 plus a mutual option ( i might be willing to go three, but it's risky). all options for the 5th spot.

but i'd prefer gaudin.

"The Matt Watson/Chiba Lotte Marines Fan Club"-Through Oct 1st: GMS:68,AVG:.271,OBP:.362,SLG:.419, doubles:12, homers:5, RBI:20

by bigelephant on Oct 18, 2006 2:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Problem is

that if Harden goes down again, that number of starts doubles, and I don't think the A's can withstand that. If you could reasonably count on Harden for 30 starts, then I would agree that the A's could use this group in the #5 spot. But as 40% of the rotation? No way.

I am not in favor of signing Mulder. The whole point of acquiring a starting pitcher is to avoid the scenario I described above if Harden goes down, and Mulder does not accomplish that given his own health issues. Plus, Mulder has the additional risk that even if he is healthy enough to pitch, he could very easily pitch terribly.

If the money is there, the A's should get someone reasonably reliable like Lilly. If not, I think they should stockpile additional depth on the cheap and consider moving Duke into the rotation.

"You are not very good, Dad. You always lose." --Dylan

by dylantravis on Oct 18, 2006 5:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

maybe

Komine?

by elfgirl on Oct 19, 2006 1:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

williams and meyer

Personally I hope either of these two can put it all together and step up. They are the two players that have had the most "upside" in the past based on minor league rankings in the past.

by Cherry22 on Oct 22, 2006 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I know I'm a head case

I respond to my own posts

by calpolyjackson on Oct 18, 2006 10:09 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Which Mulder?

I think we all want to fall in love with the idea of Mulder returning to the pitcher he once was instead of being honest with ourselves. The guy is horrible now and may not be worthy of our #5 spot.

If the deal is based on incentives then I'm all for it but my expectations are extremely low and I probably have more confidence right now in Saarloos.

"A's Brand Baseball: The worst best baseball you've ever seen!" -Chavvy

by ohtobe21likehuston on Oct 18, 2006 10:11 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I agree

Hand it Los Kirk. His last two starts were very solid, and his strike outs were way up. He is a quality starter. save the money for a quality bat, or a real lead off hitter.

by billyball1981 on Oct 18, 2006 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

i think an injured shoulder contributed a lot

to his bad pitching.

"Very nice day in the Oakland A... Oakland A's? What's this stadium called again?" Nick Swisher on TWIB.

by larrysgurl on Oct 18, 2006 7:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

in Oakland and St. Louis?

I wasn't aware of an injury while he was in Oakland but he sure pitched us out of the playoffs by losing to the Royals and others.

"A's Brand Baseball: The worst best baseball you've ever seen!" -Chavvy

by ohtobe21likehuston on Oct 19, 2006 6:08 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I Love It!

If we can sign Mark Mulder for a Frank Thomas-esque incentive-laden deal, I absolutely love the idea. Mulder has been a fantastic pitcher in the past who has struggled recently. If he can work out his issues, we've got a Cy Young caliber pitcher for cheap.

If not the A's aren't out a whole lot of money and I'm sure he'd be a fine guy to have in the bullpen, if nothing else. I mean, even at his worst he can't be worse than Saarlos or Halsey.

Plus, man, what a burn on St Louis: in return for a few shakey years of Mulder they gave us Kiko, Haren and Barton. And we got Mulder back! I can hear Beane laughing all the way to the playoffs!

by limecat on Oct 18, 2006 10:23 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Best Part of Getting Mulder Back

would be the return of the 1 hour 40 minute games.

by nfadil4 on Oct 18, 2006 10:23 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

and that would be the game wherein ...

... the game is called in the top of the third with the A's down 8-0, after Mulder's arm literally separates at the shoulder and flies halfway to the plate; game called on account of the field being covered with projectile vomit from the players and fans?

but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 18, 2006 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

oh man

what did I tell you 'bout posting shit that funny when I'm at my desk having breakfast? Now I gotta clean this up, damn it monkey!

next A's manager: Diego Chavez *CHANGE DIEGO NOW!!!!*

by emperor nobody on Oct 18, 2006 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

haha nice.

by the stare on Oct 18, 2006 2:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hi. I'm Dave Dravecky.

And I resemble that remark.

Tin Roof

by Ice Cream on Oct 18, 2006 7:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Burnt bridges...

I think any snipy comments Mulder made when he was traded was directed at the former owners, not at Beane. No bridges burnt there as far as I can tell.

Also, the first time I heard this brought up as a possibility was by Tim Hudson several months ago when Mulder got DL'd for the season. Just to give credit where it's due.

BTW, no chance we get Lilly. He's going to get a 3-4 year deal from someone for major (around $20mil) bucks. Likewise, Mulder makes no sense either, unless it's a Frank Thomas/Wade Miller-type deal (as someone mentioned earlier).

by beanehead on Oct 18, 2006 10:28 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Can we have both?

Bring Mulder on with a incentive deal and start him in AAA. From what I have heard and read he seems to be telling any one who will listen, this is what he wants. Get him back to his comfort zone away from the media. I doubt he will have suitors from the NL as too many teams lit him up these last 2 years.

If Lilly truly wants to come back, he will make it work with the $. He has been here, he understands he was traded because the A's couldn't afford him. I do not think the Giants are an option, I seem to remember during a interleague interview that he hates to bat. Even at his college they had a DH!

while I'm GM, I'd get the black uniform tops back into the mix, make high socks mandatory and add a beer tap in the press box-Mychael Urban

by jb on Oct 18, 2006 10:33 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

My cousin is trying to get into vet school

It is hard. there aren't many schools out there and UCDavis is considered one of the best. Plus there are a lot of wealthy horse owners and pet owners in the bay area.
If Lilly's wife is serious about her career and ready to get it going it makes sense that he is willing to sacrifice some dough to accomodate her career needs.

by connie mack on Oct 19, 2006 10:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Mulder coming back?

Seem odd enough, it may not happen. Although, a rotation of Mulder, Haren, Harden, Loaiza, and Blanton sounds interesting. Also, Beane likes a lefty in the rotation. Is there another lefty starter in free agent market?

Macha is a great manager. -Ron Washington

by pachydermOAFC on Oct 18, 2006 10:37 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Seems to me Mulder was on 'roids...

by calvin on Oct 18, 2006 10:45 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Billy will stay away

an emotional Mulder deal.

He was a disaster in 2H 2004. Billy never forgets (just like an elephant).

"We owe it all to one man. And we are all extraneous. 'Billy' has denuded us of ego". Liar's Poker

by Sashulia on Oct 18, 2006 10:46 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

My thoughts on Mulder:

When he cracked his hip there was an article in the Trib about how he was rehabbing at home in AZ to get ready for the playoffs.

They said that he was using an experimental drug called HGH that was used to restimulate bone growth and that nobody had ever returned from the type of injury he suffered.

Now, he stinks and got hurt.

He never had a fastball and would more than likely, without PEDs, be a waste of any amount of money spent on him.

He may be able to come back through rehab, so he is worth a minor league deal, similar to the jerome Williams deal.

Maybe even a Minimum guarantee with bonuses and vested options for for performance. That's it.

"I think we just feel that now is our time." - Nick Swisher

by saint on Oct 18, 2006 10:47 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Source?

"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 18, 2006 10:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oakland Tribune from September of '03:

I read it with my own eyes.

This is before HGH was on the banned substance list.

"I think we just feel that now is our time." - Nick Swisher

by saint on Oct 18, 2006 10:57 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Interesting.

Thanks. If it was just used in the course of treatment for his hip, I don't think that makes him damaged goods, per se.

"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 18, 2006 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wait

People still read the Tribune?

"so... I'll take that as 'none of your business'" ~ ArakSOT

by eamb on Oct 18, 2006 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sure beats the Chron most days!!!

Suchon is my favorite A's writer.

"I think we just feel that now is our time." - Nick Swisher

by saint on Oct 18, 2006 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Mulder's treatment was written up in

the new England Journal of Medicine (if memory serves me correctly). They did use a form of HGH to help the hip heal faster. It was fairly well documented. This was not some back room under-the-table treatment by any means.

Baseball is life. . . at least that is what my sweatshirt says.

by 0R0H0E on Oct 18, 2006 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Are you sure it was HGH?

The way I remember it, it was an off-label use of a drug that was commonly used for stimulating bone growth in old people suffering from osteoperosis (or something like that), but had not been extensively tested in treating fractures in younger people. I don't remember it being HGH, though it may have been related.

Will Carroll wrote about it at the time, but I can't find the article now (maybe someone with a BPro subscription can look through the archives there). He was openly critical of the A's for using off-label drugs in this case, but then, he's not a doctor.

Some are sabermetricians.

by andeux on Oct 18, 2006 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Forteo

Was the drug Mulder was reportedly using.

Can Mark Mulder come back this season? Probably not. But because of a hormone treatment called Forteo that could be one of the most significant medical breakthroughs of the last decade, it's possible. The drug is to build bone mass and heal osteopathic fractures, an osteoporosis miracle, and it is assumed that it can help in the healing of all fractures, which is why it is part of the treatment for Mulder and Michael Vick. Mulder has been running in water and throwing, and nothing has been written off.

"...I say let's get the boys together again and take another shot."

by Jennifer on Oct 18, 2006 11:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

re

Forteo is in no way a PED. What a bullshit accusation Saint. You should show a little care before you throw something like that around.

by 31Boots on Oct 18, 2006 12:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

easy there, doc

If Mulder can't perform because his hip is disintegrating, and the drug Forteo stops his hip from disintegrating, then just how, exactly, is Forteo not a "performance-enhancing drug"?

Now, yes, saint is perhaps being a bit fast and loose with his terminology in all but accusing Mulder of being a doper -- but that's no excuse for you to do the same.

but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 18, 2006 1:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I've been trying to search

for information on this. It's AMAZING how difficult it is to find an accurate list of banned substances in baseball. At once place I stopped, they claimed that such a list is not published "because any published list would quickly become obsolete." Have you heard of the Internet, people?

Forteo (or teriparatide) is a synthetically produced form of human parathyroid hormone 1-34. It's apparently really expensive, has debated benefits, and needs to be taken daily via subcutaneous injection. It is not on the closest thing I could find to a banned substances list.

"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 18, 2006 1:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Will Carroll had a similar Q about this

dokomoy (Los Angeles): In "The Juice" you talked about how someone( i think Mark Mulder) was given some sort of medication usually prescribed to arthirits [sic] suffering seniors, do you expect MLB to try and make it more difficult for players to do stuff like that?

Will Carroll : I think you're thinking of Forteo, a drug used to prevent osteoporosis and that was reportedly used by Mulder to come back from his hip fracture. I don't think that will be affected by this policy.

Some guy named "Eric Chavez" also used Forteo for a broken hand in 2004.

"...I say let's get the boys together again and take another shot."

by Jennifer on Oct 18, 2006 2:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Who?

Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Oct 18, 2006 2:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I've never heard of the guy.

"...I say let's get the boys together again and take another shot."

by Jennifer on Oct 18, 2006 2:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Whoever he is

he doesn't sound very Mexican.

"...but we're also always open to hearing about other sandwiches if it can make our lunch better." -- Nico, channeling Billy Beane

by iglew on Oct 18, 2006 2:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Diego Chavez...

...does, however.

The A's success should surprise no one. They're a much better team than people give them credit for. -- Joe Morgan

by BubbaDude on Oct 18, 2006 3:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Banned Substances List is moot in this situation

In Mulders case his doctors co-operated with mlb in determining his treatment. Just as they did with Giambi a few years ago. What this means is that there was a plan to the quantity and duration that he would be taking this treatment. If indeed this is or becomes a banned substance and Mark tests positive, the documentation backs up the positive and no harm, no foul.

It is the same way in the NCAA.

while I'm GM, I'd get the black uniform tops back into the mix, make high socks mandatory and add a beer tap in the press box-Mychael Urban

by jb on Oct 18, 2006 2:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Come on monkey

There is a stigma to PED's that everyone knows about. If you want to use the literal definition of PED's then include every single anti-inflamatory drug out there, aspirin, caffine, and anything else taken for pain or soreness someone takes to feel better.
When someone accuses a Major League player of using a PED it is pretty commonly understood to be an accusation of being a doper. The doc is right on in calling saint to the carpet.

by IndianaAsfan on Oct 18, 2006 7:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

you are correct

I agree that they're all PEDs -- and I personally don't care if a player is guzzling children's aspirin, echinacea, greenies, off-label bioengineered drugs under a doctor's care, adrenochrome, or gorilla testicles tartare. I. Just. Don't. Care. I understand that other folks do, but I reserve my right to consider it silly and hypocritical.

but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 19, 2006 9:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sure

Define "performance enhacing drug" first.

On Sunday, Minaya ticked off a list of candidates to join the rotation, and for once this season, none of them was Jose Lima.

by rfloh on Oct 19, 2006 7:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

It was in the Tribune:

And here is the definition:

FORTEO® [teriparatide (rDNA origin) injection] contains recombinant human parathyroid hormone (1-34), [rhPTH (1-34)], which has an identical sequence to the 34 N-terminal amino acids (the biologically active region) of the 84-amino acid human parathyroid hormone.

Take note of the human "parathyroid" hormone section.

"I think we just feel that now is our time." - Nick Swisher

by saint on Oct 18, 2006 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

More:

Patients with metabolic bone diseases other than osteoporosis should be excluded from treatment with FORTEO.

"I think we just feel that now is our time." - Nick Swisher

by saint on Oct 18, 2006 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's not a banned substance.

as it is not an anabolic steroid.

"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 18, 2006 1:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

HGH wasn't a banned substance until 2004:

I doubt that Forteo would qualify anyway.

MLB teams handed out anabolics like they were candy for years anyway.

My point about Mulder is that his damaged goods are worse than Frank's.

Frank doesn't need a 100% healthy ankle to hit HR's.

Mulder needs a 100% healthy hip in order to pitch.

"I think we just feel that now is our time." - Nick Swisher

by saint on Oct 18, 2006 2:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Banned substance or not

these type of drugs sound like bad new to me, if especially used on a long-term basis. Mark's still a young man and if I were him I would get on the healthiest ani-infammatory diet as possible and use every kind of practical alternative medicines and treatments available.

by Salvatore on Oct 18, 2006 4:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Mulder is a cheat

That is all. </sarcasm>

On Sunday, Minaya ticked off a list of candidates to join the rotation, and for once this season, none of them was Jose Lima.

by rfloh on Oct 19, 2006 7:31 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

i am going to appleblees

where i can get a mulder-sundae topped with crushed forteos.

rip 2006, it was nice while it lasted.

by ak_A on Oct 18, 2006 5:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Mulder only if price is right.

by Salvatore on Oct 18, 2006 10:50 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Wow!

Hey Blez, thanks for putting my Diary on top!!

Bring back Mulder!!!

by GrewUpAtTheColiseum on Oct 18, 2006 11:23 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I'd take Lilly...

But unfortunately I'm not convinced that we'll ever see a good Mark Mulder ever again.

by gdubb925 on Oct 18, 2006 11:27 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

but would mulder want to come back

to pitch in front of only 20 fans?

by gotgreen on Oct 18, 2006 11:28 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

19

I won't be around next year ;-)

"so... I'll take that as 'none of your business'" ~ ArakSOT

by eamb on Oct 18, 2006 11:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

dude

it was 20 Oakland fans at away games!

EVERYONE miss reads this qoute.

"I can't wait for tommorrow, cause I get so much cooler every day" - shirt worn by Swish

by Bigtoe on Oct 18, 2006 3:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Only misreading the "20 fans" part.

That part was about road games, yes. But this part:

People tell me, "You're going to love it in St. Louis." I never imagined how unbelievable the fan support is here. They show up. It could be 98 degrees, the humidity is unbelievable and they show up.

...is bitching about the people who don't show up AT HOME in Oakland -- instead of giving some props to those of us who do show up and make enough noise to be 30,000 even though we're actually only 15,000.

But hey, I'm fine with him. And it would be nice of him to say something positive about us weeknight springtime shiverers if he comes back.

"I miss taking showers with Kendall" ~ Brian Giles

by Poppy on Oct 18, 2006 5:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

The same Big Hurt Deal is impossible...

if the A's are involved in the bidding. If the A's are involved in an incentive laden deal, the market price will automatically be driven up given the Big Hurt precedent. And unless there is good potential value for the price+risk package, Billy will not do a deal.

How many teams were kicking themselves watching 39 HRs fly out of the park for a team that only put up $500k at risk? It won't happen again (unless Billy gets Sabean to do his bidding).

"We owe it all to one man. And we are all extraneous. 'Billy' has denuded us of ego". Liar's Poker

by Sashulia on Oct 18, 2006 12:24 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Speaking of left-handed pitchers...

Does anyone know exactly what type of compensation draft picks the A's get when presumably Zito signs with another team? Months ago I read the A's would get two number one picks from the team that signs him. Then, I think I heard more recently, that baseball, the union or whatever, was going to try and change that rule in the near future--possibly very soon. Can someone shed some light?

by Salvatore on Oct 18, 2006 12:51 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

It's still unclear.

There has been discussion of eliminating compensatory draft picks in the new CBA, but since a new CBA has not yet been adopted, there is no definitive word as of yet.

"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 18, 2006 1:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

as long as the CBA stays the same

and i'm pretty sure it is supposed to for next year's draft, zito'd definitely be a Type A free agent, which entitles us to 2 #1's (first round plus sandwich round pick), so long as the team that signs him doesn't pick lower than 14 (i think). being that his suitors are likely to be the mets, padres, and dodgers, we should be fine with that.

"welcome to ME, motherf*^*er!" - tim hudson

by guy incognito on Oct 18, 2006 1:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

zito is worth what he gets

he is a rarity in todays game. durable, productive and can bet better with age.

A's Raiders Ducks

by mcbronsh on Oct 18, 2006 1:24 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Durable: check

Productive: check
Better with age: uh...how?

Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Oct 18, 2006 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

he can BET better with age

he's from Vegas, you know

"Having a vote for 'most clutch' baseball player is like having a vote for 'most real' monster." - Ken Tremendous

by ArakSOT on Oct 18, 2006 1:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I can pat butter with sage

but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 18, 2006 1:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

or confront a debtor with rage

next A's manager: Diego Chavez *CHANGE DIEGO NOW!!!!*

by emperor nobody on Oct 18, 2006 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Or put bonobos in a cage

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Oct 18, 2006 1:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

or send emails to a page.

by mikeA on Oct 18, 2006 2:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

who are you - Mark Foley?

"Having a vote for 'most clutch' baseball player is like having a vote for 'most real' monster." - Ken Tremendous

by ArakSOT on Oct 18, 2006 2:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

But would he BAT better with age?

That's what NL teams would like to know.

"I had to turn my weaknesses into my strengths." -- Milton Bradley, October 6, 2006

by Englishmajor on Oct 18, 2006 1:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

would it even be possible

for him to bat worse ;)

"Don't be an ass!" --Bill King

by batgirl on Oct 19, 2006 12:09 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Why was Lilly traded out of Oakland?

I suspect because they didn't like his competitive makeup. There has been a lot of negative stuff about him in the Toronto press and needless to say, he's not been a favorite of manager John Gibbons

by Peter in Montreal on Oct 18, 2006 1:35 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I know he and Peterson hated each other

and that he's had problems with the Toronto pitching coach due to requests to change his delievery.

Was an official reason ever released? I always assumed it was because he was due to be paiiiid that offseason and we had the new and shiny and cheap Rich Harden to take over his role. His value was pretty high at the end of '03 after that second half run and the playoffs, it may have just been a sell-high moment?

"This must be heaven," he says.
"No. It's Oakland."

by Kyli on Oct 18, 2006 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah, it was financial

because he was going to get a lot in arbitration. But, I have real doubts about Lilly's ability to be a warrior. Remember, how he pitched against the A's in that game when he blew an 8-0 lead?

by Peter in Montreal on Oct 18, 2006 1:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

yeah, but

I also remember how he pitched in Games 3 and 5 of the 2003 ALDS

by OaklandSi on Oct 18, 2006 2:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm with OaklandSi--

his ALDS performance and his willingness to take the ball on short rest said a lot about his warrior skills.

Even great pitchers blow big leads at times.

"This must be heaven," he says.
"No. It's Oakland."

by Kyli on Oct 18, 2006 3:10 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Plus His Full Name

Is Theodore Roosevelt Lilly. Can't beat that with a bat.

"I try to figure this team out, and if I could, I'd be a genius," Mark Ellis

by Little Lebowski Urban Achievers on Oct 18, 2006 4:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well, don't forget

Grover Cleveland Alexander

Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Oct 18, 2006 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

and Franklin Pierce Thomas

and Calvin Coolidge Ripken, Jr., and Zach Taylor Wheat.

but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 18, 2006 4:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

and Chester Arthur Burnett

Some are sabermetricians.

by andeux on Oct 18, 2006 4:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

and Jimmy Carter Gobble

but that one was obvious.

Eternal Springs™: The official 2007 bottled water of your Oakland Athletics

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Oct 18, 2006 4:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

and Eric C?sar Ch?vez

by OaklandSi on Oct 18, 2006 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

and Benjamin Franklin Pierce...

...a.k.a. "Hawkeye."

"So, whatever, Ozzie." -- Nick Swisher

by FormerHuntsvilleStar on Oct 18, 2006 5:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

And Frederick "Boom Boom" Washington III

Just for laughs.

by A'sfansince1970 on Oct 18, 2006 5:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

No on Mulder

First, let's not fool ourselves with comparisons between Mulder and Thomas. Thomas was one of the best hitters of his generation, a near-certain Hall of Famer, who suffered a broken foot that basically kept him from playing for 2 years. If the foot healed, there was no reason to think he'd lost his ability to hit well, even if he wouldn't be hitting .320 with an OPS of .950 or anything.

Mulder, on the other hand, was a very good pitcher for a couple of years who was never, ever considered the best pitcher of his generation by anyone for even one second. He was thought of as the best pitcher on his team for about 2 or 3 months. He has a bad back (which was a problem even in the minors), a bad hip, and now evidently a bad arm (shoulder, IIRC), and he has absolutely sucked lately.

If Mulder makes it back, IMHO, he's gonna have to transform himself into Frank Tanana or Jamie Moyer -- a lefty slopballer who never throws better than 83 or 84 mph. But with three significant injuries, any one of which could end his career, I doubt seriously that he'll be good ever again for any significant length of time.

The only way I'd want him back is in the minors. Let him make at least 15 starts in AAA to prove his arm/hip/back can handle the stress of a regular turn in the rotation, and that he's figured out how to remake himself as a slopballer or made a miraculous recovery to throwing 90-91 again with good mechanics.

At this point, I'm more confident in giving Gaudin the #5 slot in the rotation than I am in giving it to Mulder. Come to think of it, giving Mulder the spot will probably ensure that Gaudin pitches every 5th game anyway -- except that instead of starting, he'll relieve in the 3rd down by 4 or 5 runs already.

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Oct 18, 2006 1:47 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I was just about to post something like this

You're right on. The Mark Mulder that we traded to St. Louis had his control and power on the decline for two years running. At this point it's debateable if he'd even be good WERE he healthy. The fact that he's one of the most mangled arms out on the market only compounds the fact that unless you're going the Wade Miller route and letting him rehab/prove himself on a cheap, cheap deal in AAA, it's just not worth the time or effort.

there's simply no club like the white elephant club

by walk off bunt on Oct 18, 2006 2:16 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

My .02

Mulder? No.
Lilly? No.

by mikeA on Oct 18, 2006 1:59 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

a low-cost deal doesn't really cost us

but the truth is, if mulder can't throw for any respectable speed (his fastball suddenly got a lot slower during the 2nd half of 2004), i can't see him being effective at all. now, if he can throw in the low 90's again, then he could be solid - but i dunno, shoulder surgery usually takes speed off.

"welcome to ME, motherf*^*er!" - tim hudson

by guy incognito on Oct 18, 2006 1:59 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Anyone remember seeing that Mulder video?

I recall that there was a post from a month or so ago showing video of Mulder's delivery to the plate in 2004 and 2006, side by side. It demonstrated that he was a lot slower this year, and using less lower body.

Anybody recall seeing that video comparison?
I got the impression that his mechanics were off but fixable, and if healthy he could return to '04 form. If so, might be worth a "Big Hurt-esque" deal.

by Lefty on Oct 18, 2006 2:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yeah

The video was part of a blog post over at BTF by a guy named ChadBradfordWannabe who's written some awesome scouting essays over there.

http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/files/mechanics/discussion/lost_foundmulders/

there's simply no club like the white elephant club

by walk off bunt on Oct 18, 2006 2:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

No drive in that last one.

"I think we just feel that now is our time." - Nick Swisher

by saint on Oct 18, 2006 2:21 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

even if he can get his mechanics back in order

shoulder surgery is not like TJ surgery - guys do not come back throwing just as fast or faster. i don't think mulder can be successful unless he is hitting the low 90's, and i wonder if he'll be able to once he is healthy again. at which point, yeah, if signing him costs next to nothing, no big loss, but what's the point?

"welcome to ME, motherf*^*er!" - tim hudson

by guy incognito on Oct 18, 2006 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

The problem with his mechanics may be

that they were cause by his injuries. The "bad" mechanics may have become ingrained. Perform a "bad" pattern of movement often enough, and it becomes the "normal" pattern.

On Sunday, Minaya ticked off a list of candidates to join the rotation, and for once this season, none of them was Jose Lima.

by rfloh on Oct 19, 2006 7:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nonononononononono

Mulder was declining in all the important statistical areas BEFORE the A's traded him. His K-Walk-per-9 ratio was slipping pretty rapidly, and now he's coming off surgery? Sorry. I'd rather take my chances with Joe Kennedy in the rotation; or hell, even Jason Windsor.

Zito: I would never bet against this team. First of all because it's against the rules...

by Joey C. on Oct 18, 2006 2:05 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Mulder... Come Home!

I would be totally ok with Mulder coming back! for a few reasons:

If we sign him to a similar deal as Big Frank, then the risk is minimized and really could be a great thing for both sides.
I always thought he was a brilliant pitcher. And when he is healthy, DAMN!
We NEED another lefty. I don't like the idea of Zito leaving and not have a lefty starter. I think that is a terrible idea. And a huge reason, I believe, why he wasn't traded at the deadline.
A really good friend of mine would start going to games with me again! She LOVED Mulder! When he left, she went back to the dark side of the bay!
I will always welcome that hot ass back to the team! ;)

"This is the best hug in the major leagues, right here!" - Swisher Pics

by BobbyCrosbysGirl on Oct 18, 2006 2:09 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

What have we got to lose?

Sign him to an incentive laden deal and if he sucks put Joe Kennedy, Saarloos, or Gaudin in his place. If he's great, awesome.

by A'sfansince1970 on Oct 18, 2006 2:26 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I mentioned it a couple of days ago

http://www.athleticsnation.com/comments/2006/10/15/13118/731/61#61

why take a cahnce with him.

Getting ready for 2007!!

by haroldMD on Oct 18, 2006 2:31 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

sorry, I meant

why not take a chance with him

Vamos LICEY!!!

by haroldMD on Oct 18, 2006 2:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Lilly yes

Lilly lives in Davis in the off season. I have a friend who is his neighbor. His wife is a grad student at UCD and Ted is a great guy, solid citizen, solid #3 or #4 pitcher

He'd be very happy in Oakland and we'd be happy to get him.

Mulder returning would be a nice story but too much of a risk.

by SactoAthleticsfan on Oct 18, 2006 2:37 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I'd take...

all of the frank-thomas risks on the market.

Vamos LICEY!!!

by haroldMD on Oct 18, 2006 2:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sorry to interrupt the Mulder talk but...

I went over to the St. Louis site and saw an interesting bit about LaRussa leaving the Cardinals and coming back to Oakland. Thought I'd throw that out there. Guess they want Jose Oquendo in charge. What do you all think? LaRussa back?? Could happen, he might have Mulder in the back seat with him.

by Bend It Like Zito on Oct 18, 2006 3:21 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

got a link?

"The Matt Watson/Chiba Lotte Marines Fan Club"-Through Oct 1st: GMS:68,AVG:.271,OBP:.362,SLG:.419, doubles:12, homers:5, RBI:20

by bigelephant on Oct 18, 2006 3:23 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I WENT TO THE CARDS FAN PAGE ,

GO TO MAIN PAGE OF AN,SCROLL DOWN TO CARDINALS SITE ON RIGHT HAD SIDE. ON THEIR PAGE THERE IS A LINK TO LARUSSA LEAVING.

by Bend It Like Zito on Oct 18, 2006 6:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

He'd never agree to

the conditions Beane puts on the manager. The first time Beane told him to do something he didn't want to, LaRussa would probably respond with an F-you.

by IndianaAsfan on Oct 18, 2006 7:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Objects in the mirror

are further than they appear, especially when they are base jumping from the Gateway of the West or coughing up a seven run lead before you can say "what exchange rate?"

Drench the counter with 409, put some Tommy John elbow grease into it and move on. Eric Chavez is morphing into the A's version of Bryant Young (minus the f-you ring).

Um, Billy, please come to the lobby - Wengert, Wojciechowski, Johns, Prieto and Wasdin are threatening the receptionist and Chouinard is out in the parking lot peppering the port-o-lets with buckshot. The giggling you hear is Reyes and Taylor sharing a doob on the roof of the Arena, hucking rocks at Seikaly's SUV while hoping Corsi doesn't dig into their takeout from Sam's Hofbrau.

Meanwhile, Berroa and Bournigal are here early for extra BP, Alejo has Mashore doing the Steeplechase over the moat beneath the BART ramp, Plantier is waving to the sophomore Acalanes girls, Batista is placing his bucket in the first row of 123 and Ernie Young is dodging cranes out in center.

Wonder how long Spiezio can stay in the bigs...

By the way, here's a damn fine trivia question for y'all: Of all the team names in the big four professional leagues, which is the only one that is gramatically incorrect?

by southofcruiseamerica on Oct 18, 2006 3:24 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Ah, the bad ole days

Gimme a phalanx of carpenters and steamfitters doing YMCA in the 7th inning stretch and I'll be perfectly happy (ya know, so long as I'm not expecting major league caliber baseball).

The Maple Leafs.

Eternal Springs™: The official 2007 bottled water of your Oakland Athletics

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Oct 18, 2006 3:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

With a Cashman field triple play

acted out in fine Williamsport fashion.

by southofcruiseamerica on Oct 18, 2006 3:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well,

if we're being pedantic (and when aren't we) "Leafs" is not the correct plural of "Leaf" but I'm pretty sure "Sox" is not the correct plural of "Sock" either.

Some are sabermetricians.

by andeux on Oct 18, 2006 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

OT question

Is the next line of your sig quote

and some have sabermetrics thrust upon them

Eternal Springs™: The official 2007 bottled water of your Oakland Athletics

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Oct 18, 2006 4:11 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nope

That's good, but think Dylan instead.
Which reminds me, I liked your previous sig, but I'm still waiting for the full lyrics...

Some are sabermetricians.

by andeux on Oct 18, 2006 4:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

We are everywhere!

"See that DH frail-footin' along
Watching and swinging, he's a-carrying on!"

Eternal Springs™: The official 2007 bottled water of your Oakland Athletics

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Oct 18, 2006 5:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

actually, "sox" is acceptable

But then, I also think that various groups of pitchers from different teams should be called "staves."

but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 18, 2006 4:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Correct, but that is accepted slang,

an abbreviated version of socks or maybe even accepted as a plural version back when Teddy Roosevelt stopped off at 1600 Penn now and then to clean his guns in the basement and install the trap door for Haig to fall through.

'Leafs' is just a blatant butcher job.

by southofcruiseamerica on Oct 18, 2006 4:28 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

possibly

I think Steven Pinker talks about this in one of his books, Words and Rules. It's something like how you really want the plural form of the whole phrase "Maple Leaf", which would be (Maple Leaf)s. A single player would be a Maple Leaf so when you have a bunch of them they are Maple Leafs.

Oh heck, I'm not a linguist, and I actually never read the book. I only went to a talk he gave about it 6 years ago. So that also means I don't know if he covers why it's the Minnesota Timberwolves and not Minnesota Timberwolfs.

by beijing on Oct 18, 2006 5:51 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

then, of course ...

... there's the reverse formulation for the collective-noun teams (Jim Thome is a White ... Sock?). And I won't even go near the various ridiculous WNBA/MLS/badminton-league collective abstract noun teams.

but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 18, 2006 5:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

the Athletic's?

"We owe it all to one man. And we are all extraneous. 'Billy' has denuded us of ego". Liar's Poker

by Sashulia on Oct 18, 2006 3:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Troy Hoi Polloi ...

... of the North American Professional Badminton League for Plebeians of Balkan Heritage: "the" and "hoi" are redundant.

(And, yes, monkeyball is pedantic.)

but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 18, 2006 3:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Strunk and White, party of two

your table is ready.

by southofcruiseamerica on Oct 18, 2006 3:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Yankees

Any team that serves as a euphemism for masturbation can't be grammatically correct.

I still think the Big Hurt kicks ass.

by BlameChannel53 on Oct 18, 2006 3:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

FSU wins

by southofcruiseamerica on Oct 18, 2006 3:52 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Toronto Maple Leafs

Should be "Leaves" The Canadiens are also wrong, in English. And the Rockies should be the Rockieses, to get picky about it.

The A's success should surprise no one. They're a much better team than people give them credit for. -- Joe Morgan

by BubbaDude on Oct 18, 2006 3:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Is a misspelling bad grammar?

If so, Red Sox and White Sox are right back at you.

The apostrophe in "A's" (the A's what?) is not exactly grammatically correct.

"We owe it all to one man. And we are all extraneous. 'Billy' has denuded us of ego". Liar's Poker

by Sashulia on Oct 18, 2006 4:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

the A's' apostrophe is correct

... as is the second one I slapped on for the possessive, if you want me to get pedantic about it (and I know you do).

Don't get me started, though, on the A's' incorrect and inconsistent apostrophes on their "A's in '06" signage (the ' in '06 should be a closing apostrophe, not an opening one).

but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 18, 2006 4:18 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I thought the ' in '06

substituted for the missing "20"

Ho hum. Just another day for the OAKLAND ATHLETICS OF AWESOME! ~Kyli

by baseballgirl on Oct 18, 2006 4:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

you are correct

but it should be the same apostrophe as the one in "A's."

but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 18, 2006 4:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

You nailed it,

you can get picky about the A's, but that is a short version of Athletics. The plural of Athletic is Athletics, same as Yankee/Yankees. They are not possessive of anything. Think academic to academics.

Not following the Rockies deal...

by southofcruiseamerica on Oct 18, 2006 4:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Rockies is the mountain range...

...so Rockies team would be the plural of that, a double plural.

"A's" is correct because it's a contraction of "Athletics."

The A's success should surprise no one. They're a much better team than people give them credit for. -- Joe Morgan

by BubbaDude on Oct 18, 2006 5:12 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks for pointing that out, I always wondered

why a team in Denver would be called the Rockies.

The proper geographical name is 'Rocky Mountains'.

Todd Helton is a Rocky. Todd Helton and Matt Holliday are Rockies.

John Denver did not sing 'Rockies Mountain High'

by southofcruiseamerica on Oct 18, 2006 11:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Rocks in your head?

The A's success should surprise no one. They're a much better team than people give them credit for. -- Joe Morgan

by BubbaDude on Oct 19, 2006 1:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

No, sarcasm flying over yours

by southofcruiseamerica on Oct 19, 2006 11:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh, that was humor?

Gee, it comes in all forms.

Let's pretend your favorite team is named the Rocky Mountainses insted of the Rockieses. Do you still have rocks in your head, or rockses instead?

The A's success should surprise no one. They're a much better team than people give them credit for. -- Joe Morgan

by BubbaDude on Oct 19, 2006 3:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

pleh lliw siht ebyam ,yelnaM retxeD olleH

by southofcruiseamerica on Oct 19, 2006 3:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I never cared for John Denver

The A's success should surprise no one. They're a much better team than people give them credit for. -- Joe Morgan

by BubbaDude on Oct 19, 2006 7:39 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim,

because the name is all f'd up!!!

"Even I don't believe half the things I say . . ." Barry Bonds to New York press corps, 2004

by millbraeforAsfan on Oct 18, 2006 3:44 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I think we have enough starting pitching

if Harden is healthy then he replaces Zito.

That is actually a step up.

Although, I am still a big believer in DUKE! His back worries me, but this guy was a starter in AAA. I would like to see Chad take over his spot in the bullpen and Duke move into the rotation.

"I can't wait for tommorrow, cause I get so much cooler every day" - shirt worn by Swish

by Bigtoe on Oct 18, 2006 4:02 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

his back is why he shouldn't start

i don't think he had the spasms back in AAA.

"welcome to ME, motherf*^*er!" - tim hudson

by guy incognito on Oct 18, 2006 4:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

one question

and I really don't know the answer.

what is worse for a back. Being a bullpen guy, and getting ready all the time.

Or, being a starter and fitting into a routine?

"I can't wait for tommorrow, cause I get so much cooler every day" - shirt worn by Swish

by Bigtoe on Oct 18, 2006 5:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

thats my question, too

His first year in the big leagues, I don't remember his back being an issue, wasn't he more of a long reliever/spot starter then.
When he started appearing a lot more frequently is when his back started acting up.
I'm not gonna research this, it just feels right, Colbert's gut tells me.

by connie mack on Oct 18, 2006 8:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

and because there's an "if"

to Harden, the A's will look for more pitching...anyway, you can never really have enough. It's good to plan for possible injuries or ineffectiveness, as well as having trading chips.

by OaklandSi on Oct 18, 2006 4:59 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I know it's never going to happen but...

we should get Scott Kazmir. :) my campaign is: trade Harden for Kazmir in '07!

anyone wanting to jump on this bandwagon, let me know. but I get the feeling I mighttt just be alone on this one. ;)

"Dick Cheney sitting down with Fox News is like Mrs. Butterworth sitting down with the Pancake Channel." -Jimmy Kimmel

by Christine on Oct 18, 2006 4:16 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

How about Kazmir and Crawford for

Kotsay, Blanton, Crosby, and Johnson?
Would we do it?
Would Tampa Bay do it?

"Even I don't believe half the things I say . . ." Barry Bonds to New York press corps, 2004

by millbraeforAsfan on Oct 18, 2006 4:30 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Don't know why Tampa would

They already have a glut of outfielders, without downgrading one of them. Plus, they'd be taking on a lot of money.

"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 18, 2006 4:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I also don't see them

trading Kazmir unless they are really blown away.

by mikeA on Oct 18, 2006 4:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

In a word:

No. Not in a million years would the Devil Rays take that pile of question marks and mediocrities for one of the games most electric outfielders and one of the top 5 starters in the American League, if not all the game.

there's simply no club like the white elephant club

by walk off bunt on Oct 18, 2006 8:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ha ha.

On Sunday, Minaya ticked off a list of candidates to join the rotation, and for once this season, none of them was Jose Lima.

by rfloh on Oct 19, 2006 7:42 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

The A's should sign Lilly and Mulder

and do it very soon. Then sit on Loaiza's contract until someone is willing to take it off their hands. That way we've got Harden, Haren, Lilly, Mulder, Gaudin and Jerome Williams - a fragile but talented group of starting pitchers. Trade Loaiza for some young pitching (or hitting) prospects, and we've changed the roster or the payroll very little while increasing the value we can get in return for Loaiza.

by iceplant on Oct 18, 2006 4:33 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I like Jerome Williams

He was dynamite when he debuted with that Frisco team, and then fell apart for some reason. With good health and coaching he could be a contender, and he's awful young yet.

The A's success should surprise no one. They're a much better team than people give them credit for. -- Joe Morgan

by BubbaDude on Oct 18, 2006 5:15 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Moss if he is healthy ...

I bet that he could be very good with us. I remember how high they were on him in SF.

by IM4Oakgal on Oct 18, 2006 5:24 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

He's had some elbow problems

...and a bad season in AAA this year, so he's a bit of a long shot.

The A's success should surprise no one. They're a much better team than people give them credit for. -- Joe Morgan

by BubbaDude on Oct 18, 2006 5:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I always wondered

if the reports of him being a malcontent/headcase were him actually having problems or were just a result of the shitty way SF managed him.

I'm curious as hell about Williams and how he'll turn out -- the Giants have been high on a lot of crappy pitchers over the years, but he definitely seemed to have #4 or #5 talent with SF.

And it would be funny as HELL if he succeeded in Oakland, just for the pissing-off-the-Giants effect. I remember the nasty comments he made about the organization after he ended up with the Cubs, hopefully if he DOES end up with the big club he'll have a bit of that fire to prove himself to everyone.

"This must be heaven," he says.
"No. It's Oakland."

by Kyli on Oct 18, 2006 6:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

LOL

I have to agree with you Kylie. Would be fun to hear the KNBR guys moan and groan. Giants seem to be a poor judge of talent. Hoping their mistake (and the cubs) will turn out to be our gain.

by IM4Oakgal on Oct 18, 2006 6:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well, he did have emotional

issues this year; they were related to his mom's health.

I believe he can be a Blanton type pitcher.

On Sunday, Minaya ticked off a list of candidates to join the rotation, and for once this season, none of them was Jose Lima.

by rfloh on Oct 19, 2006 7:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

totally agree

you've got to hand it to the A's, they have a consistent history of taking young guys like Jerome off the scrap heap and reforming them into major league pitchers.

by connie mack on Oct 18, 2006 8:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

No Mulder, Please

Mulder was perfectly healthy in his final season with the A's, and he got ROCKED every stinking game that September, including the huge showdown game in the final weekend of the season against the Angels. I'll never forget that night. It looked like he was throwing batting practice. Then he went to St. Louis the next season and ... it looked like he was throwing batting practice. And then this season, it looked like he was throwing batting practice. That's not a groove; that's a rut. And that's the awful National League, and that was before he was injured.

No way, Jose.

by solotar on Oct 18, 2006 4:49 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

He had some great games ...

his last season here. Just not in sept.

by IM4Oakgal on Oct 18, 2006 5:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

He would have won the CY at the All-Star Break

that year - he was that good - and then for some reason (Hip?) he fell apart the final two months.

Then he started off decently in St. Louis and has since fallen apart again. Is it worth taking a waiver on him for a cheap possible AAA contract - hell yes, why not. But not for any real dollars that could affect the big league club - unless he comes out throwing 91-93 MPH darts when he is done rehabbing - because that is the Mulder that we knew, and not the current version that was last seen giving up BP in the NL.

by SD Erik on Oct 18, 2006 5:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Mulder's first half, his last year here, was

huge part of why the A's were even still in the division race that year.

"Very nice day in the Oakland A... Oakland A's? What's this stadium called again?" Nick Swisher on TWIB.

by larrysgurl on Oct 18, 2006 7:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think St Louis will keep him.

If he is cheap enough.

by IM4Oakgal on Oct 18, 2006 5:01 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I Thought This Wash Comment Was Interesting

...it's exactly what the As need to hear. It's great marketing by Wash and/or a no-kidding assessment of what he's about.

"Did I impress them enough to be the manager of the Texas Rangers? [Note: I hope he means Oakland As and simply misspoke here.] ]I don't know. But they're very smart people and they have a definite idea what they're looking for: a guy who will be honest with the players, someone who will bring some attitude. They're looking for someone who can relax the clubhouse and play up to the expectations. They're going to have a youth infusion, but they're not going to accept losing."

by Dan_Honolulu on Oct 18, 2006 5:03 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I read it the same way

by Eck on Oct 18, 2006 9:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dan, I agree wholeheartedly --

Wash may not have the "polish" that some other (B.S.er manager)candidates do, but I think he is, and always will be, straight, and bleed his team's colors.
He'd run through a wall for his guys, and hopes his guys would do the same for themselves, and each other!
Hire WASH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"Even I don't believe half the things I say . . ." Barry Bonds to New York press corps, 2004

by millbraeforAsfan on Oct 18, 2006 5:09 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I think Beane wants Texas to sign Wash...

so he doesn't have to. He wants to sign Geren. If he wanted to sign Wash, he would have already.
If Texas signs him, he doesn't have an angry mob of ANers on his hands.

by connie mack on Oct 18, 2006 10:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I said that the other day...

Beane's the most machiavellian guy since Niccolo Machiavelli, (1469-1527).

by Salvatore on Oct 18, 2006 11:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

No doubt about it

Beane is cunning, ruthless, and relentless. He's also the reason why the A's have had 8 winning seasons in a row while being a small market team.

I still think the Big Hurt kicks ass.

by BlameChannel53 on Oct 18, 2006 11:57 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yep,

that sumbitch is something else.

by Salvatore on Oct 19, 2006 1:14 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I would love Mulder back...

A guy I like and loved rooting for. Would be fun to have him back.

Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Oct 18, 2006 5:24 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I agree with you, for once.

by Pucking Insane on Oct 18, 2006 5:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I know I sound like a broken record...

but if we think about signing Mulder, it should be to an easily achievable incentive laden deal for at least two years, three if we can get it.
Something along the lines of $500K/year with a million dollar bonus at 100 innings pitched, another mil at 150 IP and a 2 million bonus at 200 IP.
This along with the caveat that he starts at AAA, which means no pressure on him. Get himself healthy and fundamentally straightened out with the help of the organization he had great success at, prove it for a year and a half and then go cash in.
If no one else
If he takes the contract, great, if not best of luck, Mark

by connie mack on Oct 18, 2006 8:34 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

My take on the "if Harden is healthy"

aspect of the discussion: This year, when Harden went down, the A's still had an anchor in Zito. Next year, if Harden goes down (and if the Angels improve as appears to be likely), the A's are toast. They can put together a rotation that can compete for the AL West title in 2007, but to withstand losing their ace after losing their ace to free agency? Losing Harden again might signal "time to reload for 2008".

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 18, 2006 7:29 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

So let's skip that scenario...

and plan now for a winning team. I don't like the pie in the sky argument. We have a good team. We need to decide how to fill the void Zito leaves and go out and win! and maybe we should start bitching about Wolff and the payroll. Revenue sharing should not be pocketed. The owners ought to have to reivest it in the team.

by IM4Oakgal on Oct 18, 2006 7:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

The A's Have Banked Enough Good Injury Kharma ...

... to keep Harden AND Mulder healthy next year.

by Eck on Oct 18, 2006 9:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Mulder, Lilly

Mulder -- As others have noted, the only reason to consider Mulder is if it's a Thomasesque contract. Even when successful in St. Louis, Mulder looked like a shadow of his former self. That doesn't mean he couldn't transform himself into a control/slop pitcher, but such transformation usually take time and usually don't work.

Lilly -- I don't see it happening, because he will command too much money. Isn't that one of the reasons Beane traded him away?

by bear88 on Oct 19, 2006 12:46 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

No

No way would Beane go back and get a guy he knew was worthy of letting go. He saw Mulder's decline coming and he would be of no value now, even with an incentive laden contract this guy would be a bust. The Frank Thomas experience we had is very rare. Yes I'm sure we all loved Mulder when he was hot but he is just not the best option for the team at this point. There are so many other credible options out there. Have faith in Beane, he is why we are consistent winners. As for Lilly he is going to command more money then we can show him.

by afskycop on Oct 19, 2006 1:02 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I like Lilly but....

Lilly will go to the highest bidder Giants or A's. Giants need to replace Schmidt if they don't resign him and we need to place Zito (if we don't sign him..ha). I think the Giants are going to work on offense first.

"Mom, I know you don't like baseball but I want to take you to a Giants game and see a real penant contender..." - 2006 Giants Radio Commerical

by What Would Rickey Do on Oct 19, 2006 5:57 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Several of the posts here mention...

that Mulder had some negative comments about the A's when he left. I can't remember anything like that. Can anybody fill me in on what he said?

Tear down Mount Davis!

by polytician on Oct 19, 2006 6:32 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

They're overstated

He just took a little shot at the lack of fan support in comparison to STL. Basically said that it's nice to play in front of more than 20 fans for a change.

"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 19, 2006 9:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

only

thing I can remember is a comment saying something like the fans in Oakland are great, but they just don't show up for games...

by elfgirl on Oct 19, 2006 8:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Link

http://athleticsnation.com/comments/2006/4/21/123055/592/25#25

Original link to the story is in there.

Mulder also said some stuff about Oakland on BDSSP. Though, thinking back, I think Chris Rose made the comment, not Mulder. Something about playing in front of more than just his [Mulder's] friends and family.

Here's the diary about the BDSSP comment.

http://athleticsnation.com/story/2005/4/27/1503/66717

"...I say let's get the boys together again and take another shot."

by Jennifer on Oct 20, 2006 7:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Lilly-yes.. Mulder- no

Mulder is an often injured headcase ... we need more of that in Oakland?

Lilly I really like - I think he'd be a perfect replacement for Zito at half the price.

by Herm4430 on Oct 19, 2006 1:44 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Mulder is a big No No!

He's not returning until ASB 2007, he has less heart than Chavez, and he is just a shell of his former self!
Lilly would be a great choice, or Capuano if possible.

Let's GO OAKLAND!!!

by OaktownRajah on Oct 19, 2006 9:10 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

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