A's players take parting shots at Macha
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/10/17/AS.TMP&type=as
Wow...I'm kind of speechless here. Baseball is usually a closed door policy, but it looks like some A's players decided to speak their minds.
Kotsay: "When I got injured, I felt disrespected,'' Kotsay said. "The 'puzzling' comment really threw me. My manager didn't have my back, and every manager's first business is to protect his players. That totally lost my trust in that relationship, between us as player and manager.''
Danny Haren: "And it was unfair to sit him two months against lefties and then all of a sudden throw him in there in the playoffs against tough lefties like (Johan) Santana and Kenny Rogers. I don't think Macha handled that correctly."
Kendall: "If there's a bang-bang play at first, even if you're out, if you're arguing you want someone there behind you. If you argue a pitch, even if you're wrong, you want someone joining in. And I'm not sure Macha did that.''
Zito: "I felt like he didn't protect me,'' Zito said. "I know a lot of managers do -- (White Sox first baseman) Paul Konerko told me that Ozzie Guillen would take a bullet for his players. I was upset but Macha was fighting his own battle and he probably couldn't process that kind of pressure, so, OK, I'll wear it.''
Chavvy: "The atmosphere wasn't positive, for some reason,'' Chavez said. "That was hard for us to deal with -- here we are, winning the division, we're banged up but we're still doing what we should be doing, and every time he spoke to us, he'd say how much appreciated the effort, but then you'd read things where he was always smashing people. ... This negative cloud was just eating at everybody.''
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it was always my opinion
by china bob on Oct 17, 2006 7:46 AM PDT reply actions
Kendal's comment
I really don't have a problem with the way he managed a game (though he always left pitchers in too long), but the fact that he never argues and never gets tossed is something i think that is important. Look at the great managers in the league... Leyland, Gardy, Cox, etc... they all have attitudes. That is a good thing.
I've always found it curious...
But whatever. I don't have team sport playing experience, a Y chromosome or Whiskers Of Fear... ;)
I guess
I am surprised, though, at how much coddling these players seem to need. I can coddle with the best of them. Maybe I should be manager.
I actually thought Macha
I talk like Macha (except for the accent).
Although I can see that Macha's particular brand of communication, while amusing to some of us in sound bites, might really wear someone down over the course of months/years in a competitive environment.
to quit whining about *communication style*
I will disagree
There are only a few reasons for a manager to argue a call:
- Get the umpire leaning your way or at least to make the correct call next time.
- Keep your player from arguing and getting kicked out, since he is much more important to winning the game than you.
- The very rare time when the umpire had a lousy view and it is apparent another umpire had a much better view.
- Oh and if your a complete ass, to try and screw up the opposing pitcher when you are on offense by staying out there so long the opposing potcher has to play catch to stay warm.
Booo Kendall.
Let's trade him to the Red Sox!
I still love Kendall...
Stud on field, mouth shut = YAY!
Stud in glasses, smiling, enjoying kids at FanFest = Hawt.
Stud talking about studness = <gag>
nah
The comments I really liked, though, were Zito's about Ozzie Guillen protecting his players. That is what I think we need. We have a bunch of players like Chavez that are horrible quotes in the media--too brutally honest, too low self esteem sometimes...
Guillen makes the outlandish statements so that his players don't have to. He takes the blame as it is heaped on him, and he praises his players in the media all the time. Some of his comments are inappropriate, but he definitely lets his players play by clearing out those outside distractions. I hope we get a guy who can do that...
Well.
He's an idiot ...
Hmmm ...
i totally agree
by californiagirl on Oct 17, 2006 7:08 PM PDT up reply actions
I heard that Macha got fired
Anyways, in every place I have ever worked, the person who got fired or left for another job was responsible for every little problem with every project they ever worked on. So I take these comments with a large grain of salt.
agreed
The fired person gets blamed for everything thats wrong around the office.
Then after they are fired, someone complains that they left things in disarray-heh they had like 30 minutes to clean their desk, how do you expect them to get things ready for the next guy in 30 minutes.
geesh, what a screwed up situation
Up to this point Macha was considered a "players manager". It was the main reason why he was hired after Howe. Howe was permitted to walk out of Oakland because of the perception he had lost the clubhouse. That he didn't communicate with the players. He had lost their respect. Now we hear all this backstabbing from guys like Kotsay, Kendell and Zito! Just f*ckin' incredible if you ask me.
I like Kotsay's game-when he's healthy. And that's the problem! The dude can't do this and he can't do that. He can't play on turf and he can't play a day game after a night. And his back is sore because he rode the plane and etc, etc, etc. Does anybody know how friggin' frustrating it is to deal with a player like that? Just ask the WSox and what they went through with Frank on a daily basis last yr.
And for this dink Kendell to say ANYTHING about how Macha dealt with him is fuckin' reprehensible. He wanted to play everyday and Macha let him. This was even when Kendell played like shit last year- Macha kept on "having his back" and played him. Macha freakin' CARRIED this dink last year and this is how Kendell pays him back. Very nice Kendell. Very nice.
I'm not a Macha fan. I thought he was a very good bench coach but nothing more. But reading this crap now from these players is a recipe for future disaster. And, honesty, Billy initated this screw up by rehiring Kenny. Billy has made some big boo-boos but this was large. Now Billy needs to do the right thing, hire someone outside of the organization who has had a proven track recorded as a manager and a former player.
When one reads this crap in the press this team must look like a freakin' circus. Billy screwed this up but he's smart enough to make this sorry situation go away.
You bring up valid points and a real concern
by BlameChannel53 on Oct 17, 2006 9:56 AM PDT up reply actions
Kotsay is a punk...
by FoolshGame22 on Oct 17, 2006 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions
It Byrnes! IT BYRNES!!
Kots has always been a snippy little bastard...
by AinOz on Oct 17, 2006 6:40 PM PDT up reply actions
agreed 100%
If Beane doesn't establish control over the clubhouse and step back from his own personal biases in personnel management, this team could be simply bad in '07 and flat-out awful in '08.
Yes
by BlameChannel53 on Oct 17, 2006 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions
That's where the hope comes from
by BlameChannel53 on Oct 17, 2006 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions
The thing about Kotsay
Sometimes you ust have to let the players know what is going on. It seems like ego stroking, but if a guy is told what is happening he is not walking in on gameday and first findig out he is not playing when he sees the lineup card, and then spends the next few games figuring out what is going on for himself.
Spot on analysis
by BlameChannel53 on Oct 17, 2006 5:53 PM PDT up reply actions
Kotsay has a bunch of days off,
Macha said it was "puzzling." What a mean, mean thing to say.
Yeah, and kicking a man after he's just been fired shows lotsa class, Mark.
by Checkswing HR on Oct 17, 2006 9:53 AM PDT reply actions
i agree...he said it was "puzzling"....
by littleA on Oct 17, 2006 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions
The "puzzling" comment...
"Puzzling" in this context
by Checkswing HR on Oct 17, 2006 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions
i have always respected your opinions, Poppy....
by littleA on Oct 17, 2006 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions
Yes
by BlameChannel53 on Oct 17, 2006 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions
true
And so when Macha goes with Kotsay in the playoffs against lefties he gets bashed for it. The friggin' guy couldn't win either way. Macha shouldv'e stuck to his guns and sat Kotsay and played The Clown against lefties. Apparently, the knives were already in Macha's back, so he had nothing to lose.
This was about playing time. Pure and simple.
by bigelephant on Oct 17, 2006 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions
I agree, "puzzling" is very ambiguous.
Of course, as we saw with some reporters' early-season "selective quoting" of Milton Bradley, it's highly possible that Macha did go on to say why he was puzzled (like "We'd hoped the rest would do him some good, but back injuries are just incredibly difficult to make predictions about," etc...), and that part just didn't make it into print.
I thought he meant "puzzling"
HA!!!!
by baseballgirl on Oct 17, 2006 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions
I was thinking...
"Kotsay's back is acting up again. It is one of those things that happens with backs where you just don't know what they will do."
Macha does not argue with umps.
As for Zito, what is so embarrassing to Zito for Macha to state that Zito felt he should be pulled from the game against the Angels? If you're done, you do a great service to the manager and the team by telling the manager.
What does that say about Zito that Zito expected Macha to lie about why he came out of that game?
by Checkswing HR on Oct 17, 2006 10:08 AM PDT reply actions
Wassup Checkswing?
Barry pitched his butt off and Macha brought in...Jim Mecir??? Tell me, you didn't know it was over right then and there?
by saint @ Athletics Nation on Oct 17, 2006 10:14 AM PDT up reply actions
Good point.
by Helloooo 1st on Oct 17, 2006 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions
The way it reads...
Zito has said he had nothing left. There's no shame in being honest about that.
But, when the manager brings in a guy in Mecir that everyone else seemed to feel would blow it, then says after the game that Zito took himself out as if that's why they lost...that's a problem.
I can't blame Zito for that--
I'm guessing it's not an uncommon thing for a pitcher to tell a manager, "hey, I'm done". Yet you don't hear about it. In a game like that, I don't think it's wrong to expect the manager to own up to the events rather than pushing it off on the pitcher. It wasn't Zito's fault for what happened after he left the game, yet he took a good deal of blame from the press and the fans when he came out -- it shouldn't be so hard for Macha to deflect a little blame, it probably would have blown over a hell of a lot faster if he said he thought Zito was done than the whole rain of macho bullshit that followed the game.
"No. It's Oakland."
The buck stops here ...
Macha was asked why he took out Zito.
That is all Macha said. Macha was stating a fact, like stating that it rained because there was condensation in the f'ing clouds. Macha did not say that Zito let down humanity or that it was Zito's fault that we lost.
And what the hell is wrong with a manager clarifying for the fans why he made a decision? The problem is with Zito for feeling that taking himself out off the game is a scandal that needs to be covered up. Think if Pedro had been willing to acknowledge that he needed to be taken out in the 7th inning of Game 7 of the '03 ALCS.
That Macha knew he was entirely responsible for the decision, BASED ON the information being given him by his starting pitcher, is self-evident to everyone who is not predisposed to think the worst of Macha.
If you feel sorry because the fans wrongly dumped on Zito as if he lost the game, then why don't we dump on those fans for being unfair to Zito? Why dump on Macha?
"Why couldn't we have brought in Eck or Foulke?" The bullpen failure in that game was a collective effort, not just Mecir's. Rincon and Dotel also gave up big hits after Zito left.
by Checkswing HR on Oct 17, 2006 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions
Also ...
... whassup, saint?
by Checkswing HR on Oct 17, 2006 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions
If all that's been said is true ...
In addition, any good manager (at least in the retail world), knows their staff's buttons and when to push them to get the most out of them. They know how to groom/train their employees for the next step. They know which method of communication works the best for each employee (trying to employ the same method for each person, doesn't typically work unless you manage robots). A good manager sets a clear vision/goal, and a clear guidelines on how to get there. I realize that Macha often had to juggle playing time, but from the sounds of how it was handled, I just kinda shook my head and shrugged. As much as they like to keep things i-house, much controvery could've been diffused by sitting down each individual player in the office, and laying out when and how they would get starts. As a former retail manager, I know that employees hate not knowing when they're gonna work (Imagine working 2 days a week, and being on call for the other 3). They better you let them know ahead of time what they're chances of working are, the better that helps their preparation.
And lastly, as a team leader (which a manager should be, by default), you should always have your team's back, at least publicly. That doesn't mean getting into arguments each time your player disputes the ump. It doesn't mean getting yourself unnecessarily thrown out. But from the sounds of it, the players at least wanted Macha to question the umps more often. If the player turns out to be wrong, you address that behind closed doors. But a reliable way to inspire your players, is to show that you're looking out for them. It was my first (and best) manager that once taught me the golden rule of managing a staff - 'take care of your employees, and they'll take care of you.'
somewhat true, except:
Plus, I'd agree that communication is key for manager and player. But let's not forget that in this working environment we not only have millionaires with egos but there is also the media putting their spin on every spoken and unspoken word.
Therefore, your analogy may be interesting but might not offer a realistic representation of what goes on in the MLB clubhouse.
by bigelephant on Oct 17, 2006 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions
more like managing a trading floor, maybe
I found this one...
by What Would Rickey Do on Oct 17, 2006 1:43 PM PDT reply actions
nice one
Macha
by SanJoseRon on Oct 17, 2006 2:22 PM PDT reply actions
You know what?
I, also, thought Macha did his best job this year, BY FAR.
by baseballgirl on Oct 17, 2006 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions
Perfect take...
by Miggy on Oct 17, 2006 3:26 PM PDT up reply actions
Agree and disagree
by BlameChannel53 on Oct 17, 2006 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions
by no means am I suggesting...
by Miggy on Oct 17, 2006 4:59 PM PDT up reply actions
we agree mostly
by BlameChannel53 on Oct 17, 2006 5:16 PM PDT up reply actions
we don't know what goes on behind closed doors
but when half the team probably isn't sad to see macha go, then there is a problem with him.
if macha's not happy and the players aren't happy, then the change is a good thing.
Kotsay is injury prone ...
Kendall, on the other hand, may have taken one too many off the face mask by now. Tough guy - yes. Rational - no.
who DOES have Kotsay's back?
For that matter, who's got Crosby's and Duchscherer's?
Great comments so far
Tired Act
by cadevil on Oct 17, 2006 8:14 PM PDT reply actions
how do you get that kendall was urban's
by larrysgurl on Oct 17, 2006 8:40 PM PDT up reply actions
Bronson Arroyo, the voice of reason.
his willigness
by cadevil on Oct 17, 2006 8:51 PM PDT reply actions
how do you know that there wasn't a problem
by larrysgurl on Oct 17, 2006 8:53 PM PDT up reply actions
ur right we don't
by cadevil on Oct 17, 2006 9:08 PM PDT reply actions
i don't think it has anything to do with how
by larrysgurl on Oct 17, 2006 9:21 PM PDT up reply actions
disliked macha I mean
by cadevil on Oct 17, 2006 9:12 PM PDT reply actions
having their back
by cadevil on Oct 17, 2006 9:36 PM PDT reply actions
we're just going to have to agree to disagree on
by larrysgurl on Oct 17, 2006 9:38 PM PDT up reply actions
maybe we didn't hear from ellis and payton
I repsect that
by cadevil on Oct 17, 2006 9:44 PM PDT reply actions

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