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A's players take parting shots at Macha

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/10/17/AS.TMP&type=as
Wow...I'm kind of speechless here. Baseball is usually a closed door policy, but it looks like some A's players decided to speak their minds.

Kotsay: "When I got injured, I felt disrespected,'' Kotsay said. "The 'puzzling' comment really threw me. My manager didn't have my back, and every manager's first business is to protect his players. That totally lost my trust in that relationship, between us as player and manager.''

Danny Haren: "And it was unfair to sit him two months against lefties and then all of a sudden throw him in there in the playoffs against tough lefties like (Johan) Santana and Kenny Rogers. I don't think Macha handled that correctly."

Kendall: "If there's a bang-bang play at first, even if you're out, if you're arguing you want someone there behind you. If you argue a pitch, even if you're wrong, you want someone joining in. And I'm not sure Macha did that.''

Zito: "I felt like he didn't protect me,'' Zito said. "I know a lot of managers do -- (White Sox first baseman) Paul Konerko told me that Ozzie Guillen would take a bullet for his players. I was upset but Macha was fighting his own battle and he probably couldn't process that kind of pressure, so, OK, I'll wear it.''

Chavvy: "The atmosphere wasn't positive, for some reason,'' Chavez said. "That was hard for us to deal with -- here we are, winning the division, we're banged up but we're still doing what we should be doing, and every time he spoke to us, he'd say how much appreciated the effort, but then you'd read things where he was always smashing people. ... This negative cloud was just eating at everybody.''

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I'm a jackass
I didn't see the link on flashfire's post. My bad.
Fire Macha Yesterday!

by dboysick on Oct 17, 2006 1:09 AM PDT reply actions  

Chavvy's comment
sealed the deal. He had been among Macha's biggest supporters.

by OaklandSi on Oct 17, 2006 6:03 AM PDT reply actions  

it was always my opinion
that the A's won despite Macha, and what we are reading now only confirms that.  Good managers use their entire roster making all feel like part of a team.  It was always obvious that Macha didn't feel the same way.

by china bob on Oct 17, 2006 7:46 AM PDT reply actions  

Kendal's comment
His comment was the one that confirmed my idea that Macha didn't have the passion that he should.  

I really don't have a problem with the way he managed a game (though he always left pitchers in too long), but the fact that he never argues and never gets tossed is something i think that is important.  Look at the great managers in the league... Leyland, Gardy, Cox, etc... they all have attitudes.  That is a good thing.

by brenarlo on Oct 17, 2006 7:46 AM PDT reply actions  

I've always found it curious...
...that the manager is expected to get himself thrown out by having a pointless argument with an ump whenever a player decides to argue a call (the ump won't change his mind, after all).  I understand that they think the "point" of the manager's ejection is to show that "he has his player's back," but it seems just as silly to me as Kendall's saying, approximately, "I had to go put Lackey in a chokehold because he sassed me."

But whatever.  I don't have team sport playing experience, a Y chromosome or Whiskers Of Fear...  ;)

"I miss taking showers with Kendall" ~ Brian Giles

by Poppy on Oct 17, 2006 7:55 AM PDT up reply actions  

I guess
I agree that managers shouldn't be getting themselves thrown out of games everytime a player thinks he was safe, but it seems to me (and I could definitely be wrong) that manager/ump confrontations come to an end without an ejection more often than not. I've never been vehemently anti-Macha, but in those situations, half the time he looked like he slept through the play and couldn't be bothered. I can see why that would bother the players.

I am surprised, though, at how much coddling these players seem to need. I can coddle with the best of them. Maybe I should be manager.

Kettlecorn! Swishercorn!

by TurnTwo on Oct 17, 2006 8:08 AM PDT up reply actions  

I actually thought Macha
argued a lot more with umps this year than in previous years.
"...I say let's get the boys together again and take another shot."

by Jennifer on Oct 17, 2006 8:12 AM PDT up reply actions  

I talk like Macha (except for the accent).
I should definitely not manage, because I'd be tempted to tell some guys to just grow a pair and quit whining.

Although I can see that Macha's particular brand of communication, while amusing to some of us in sound bites, might really wear someone down over the course of months/years in a competitive environment.

"I miss taking showers with Kendall" ~ Brian Giles

by Poppy on Oct 17, 2006 8:37 AM PDT up reply actions  

to quit whining about *communication style*
NOT about injuries, etc.  I do think injured guys have every right to complain about comments like "it's puzzling why he's not playing" or "it doesn't appear he'll ever be healthy" or "they're non-entities"...
"I miss taking showers with Kendall" ~ Brian Giles

by Poppy on Oct 17, 2006 8:42 AM PDT up reply actions  

I can coddle AND cuddle.
Me for manager!
"This must be heaven," he says.
"No. It's Oakland."

by Kyli on Oct 17, 2006 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions  

Macha hit the trifecta
He curdled.
but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 17, 2006 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions  

I will disagree
A manager should never be thrown out for arguing a call.  It is a pointless endeavour. Showing a player you have his back makes no sense, since 90% of the time the player is wrong, and 99.9% of the time the umpire does not change the call (.1% for the rare occasion where the umpire might be talked into requesting help from another in the crew who had a better view). So, why get thrown out for most likely being wrong.

There are only a few reasons for a manager to argue a call:

  1. Get the umpire leaning your way or at least to make the correct call next time.
  2. Keep your player from arguing and getting kicked out, since he is much more important to winning the game than you.
  3. The very rare time when the umpire had a lousy view and it is apparent another umpire had a much better view.
  4. Oh and if your a complete ass, to try and screw up the opposing pitcher when you are on offense by staying out there so long the opposing potcher has to play catch to stay warm.

by Donner on Oct 17, 2006 5:22 PM PDT up reply actions  

Booo Kendall.
Yeah, I'm liking his machismo less and less, and I think I might actually hate the dude if he played for another team.
Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Oct 17, 2006 8:22 AM PDT up reply actions  

I still love Kendall...
...but there are times I wish he'd just shut the hell up.

Stud on field, mouth shut = YAY!
Stud in glasses, smiling, enjoying kids at FanFest = Hawt.
Stud talking about studness = <gag>

"I miss taking showers with Kendall" ~ Brian Giles

by Poppy on Oct 17, 2006 8:34 AM PDT up reply actions  

nah
I don't have a problem with his comments.  I think backing up your players is one of the most important parts about being a manager.

The comments I really liked, though, were Zito's about Ozzie Guillen protecting his players.  That is what I think we need.  We have a bunch of players like Chavez that are horrible quotes in the media--too brutally honest, too low self esteem sometimes...

Guillen makes the outlandish statements so that his players don't have to.  He takes the blame as it is heaped on him, and he praises his players in the media all the time.  Some of his comments are inappropriate, but he definitely lets his players play by clearing out those outside distractions.  I hope we get a guy who can do that...

by SeanR on Oct 17, 2006 9:03 AM PDT up reply actions  

Well.
Guillen is also an idiot, so every manager has his trade-offs.
"Folding chair. Right to the base of the HR guy's spine. Incapacitates a man in seconds. Next question." --Catfish Stew

by tankerraid on Oct 17, 2006 9:59 AM PDT up reply actions  

He's an idiot ...
but an idiot that has earned the love and respect of his players ... which to me is all the greater an accomplishment.

by devo on Oct 17, 2006 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions  

Hmmm ...
I wonder how xbhaskarx will insult you, then.
but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 17, 2006 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions  

i totally agree
and i'm not too happy that Macha is gone. (goes into bomb shelter)
Jay Witasick is in D.C.

by californiagirl on Oct 17, 2006 7:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

I heard that Macha got fired
because of his Macha socks.  

Anyways, in every place I have ever worked, the person who got fired or left for another job was responsible for every little problem with every project they ever worked on. So I take these comments with a large grain of salt.

"Folding chair. Right to the base of the HR guy's spine. Incapacitates a man in seconds. Next question." --Catfish Stew

by tankerraid on Oct 17, 2006 8:23 AM PDT reply actions  

agreed
Wow, those comments are so 100% true.
The fired person gets blamed for everything thats wrong around the office.
Then after they are fired, someone complains that they left things in disarray-heh they had like 30 minutes to clean their desk, how do you expect them to get things ready for the next guy in 30 minutes.

by apilgrim on Oct 17, 2006 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions  

geesh, what a screwed up situation
I'm having a hard time getting my head around the fact this team just won a ALDS and won 93 games!

Up to this point Macha was considered a "players manager". It was the main reason why he was hired after Howe. Howe was permitted to walk out of Oakland because of the perception he had lost the clubhouse. That he didn't communicate with the players. He had lost their respect. Now we hear all this backstabbing from guys like Kotsay, Kendell and Zito! Just f*ckin' incredible if you ask me.

I like Kotsay's game-when he's healthy. And that's the problem! The dude can't do this and he can't do that. He can't play on turf and he can't play a day game after a night. And his back is sore because he rode the plane and etc, etc, etc. Does anybody know how friggin' frustrating it is to deal with a player like that? Just ask the WSox and what they went through with Frank on a daily basis last yr.

And for this dink Kendell to say ANYTHING about how Macha dealt with him is fuckin' reprehensible. He wanted to play everyday and Macha let him. This was even when Kendell played like shit last year- Macha kept on "having his back" and played him. Macha freakin' CARRIED this dink last year and this is how Kendell pays him back. Very nice Kendell. Very nice.

I'm not a Macha fan. I thought he was a very good bench coach but nothing more. But reading this crap now from these players is a recipe for future disaster. And, honesty, Billy initated this screw up by rehiring Kenny. Billy has made some big boo-boos but this was large. Now Billy needs to do the right thing, hire someone outside of the organization who has had a proven track recorded as a manager and a former player.

When one reads this crap in the press this team must look like a freakin' circus. Billy screwed this up but he's smart enough to make this sorry situation go away.    

"The Matt Watson/Chiba Lotte Marines Fan Club"-Through Sept 13th: GMS:61,AVG:.282,OBP:.366,SLG:.429, doubles:11, homers:5, RBI:20

by bigelephant on Oct 17, 2006 9:44 AM PDT reply actions  

You bring up valid points and a real concern
I am glad Macha is gone, because he was IMO a terrible manager.  However, the comments made upon his demise by diminishing skills players like Kotsay and Kendall have me worried for the future.  Kotsay in particular concerns me because he strikes me as a "clubhouse martyr"; a guy who not only bitches when others notice his lack of ability, but then rally other players to his cause and create strife in the process.  I was particularly concerned to see Haren talking about Kotsay's "unfair" treatment.  Haren probalby heard about this treatment every day from Kotsay, and that kind of stuff is not healthy for a club.  Kotsay is in a downward career spiral because his back limits him and he never was a great player in the first place.  Kotsay needs to go if he is going to bitch when better players play instead of him, and against LHs Kielty is simply a better player.
I still think the Big Hurt kicks ass.

by BlameChannel53 on Oct 17, 2006 9:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

Kotsay is a punk...
I've always thought this and I always will.
The Los Chokeles Chokers of Chokaheim choke again! - BruceBochte, quoting Nico

by FoolshGame22 on Oct 17, 2006 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions  

It Byrnes! IT BYRNES!!
"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 17, 2006 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions  

Kots has always been a snippy little bastard...
and he made it clear with his comments. You can't cure a person's nature, he likes to stir the pot and add negativity but a stronger personality than Macha can handle that. And, hey, if the players like him and gravitate to him and suck up his negative BS at least there's some fraternity there.
"No matter what I talk about, it always gets back to baseball." ~Connie Mack

by AinOz on Oct 17, 2006 6:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

agreed 100%
What makes it even worse (and/or perhaps was at the root of the mutiny) is that Beane is a huge Kotsay fan.

If Beane doesn't establish control over the clubhouse and step back from his own personal biases in personnel management, this team could be simply bad in '07 and flat-out awful in '08.

but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 17, 2006 12:20 PM PDT up reply actions  

Yes
We have a dangerous mix of diminishing skills players who happen to be favorites of the Supreme Commander.  I hope Beane's baseball savvy wins out over his loyalties, because we will need to get better to stay competitive.
I still think the Big Hurt kicks ass.

by BlameChannel53 on Oct 17, 2006 12:50 PM PDT up reply actions  

That's where the hope comes from
Beane has shown willingness in the past to do things that go against his own personal biases(Hudson, Jeremy Giambi).  He has also made mistakes based upon biases (signing Hatteberg to his last extension, signing Kotsay to an extension despite knowing that he had serious back problems).  I hope that Beane does the right thing, because the A's, as Monkeyball said could be pretty bad by 2008 if the wrond decisions are made.  
I still think the Big Hurt kicks ass.

by BlameChannel53 on Oct 17, 2006 1:07 PM PDT up reply actions  

The thing about Kotsay
He needed the rest towards the end of the season, so his back would be ready for the playoffs and the possibility of playing on turf in the Metrodome.  The most effective way to do that while maximizing team performance was to play Kielty against left handers.   Unfortunately, I think the issue really was communication.  Macha should have been upfront with Kotsay and said, "Look we need you at peak for the playoffs, so I need to rest you quite a bit over the next month.  Kielty hits left handers really well, so I think the best way to do that is to have him in against lefties and you against righties."  Then, Kotsay could have said, "If you plan on playing me against lefties in the playoffs I need to get some games against good lefties."  And, they could have made the right arrangements to the point of perhaps Macha saying, "I think our best chance of winning will be to put Kielty in against lefties in the playoffs also.  I know you don't like it, but that is our strongest lineup, and once we get the starter out we will want you in the outfield to maximize defense."

Sometimes you ust have to let the players know what is going on.  It seems like ego stroking, but if a guy is told what is happening he is not walking in on gameday and first findig out he is not playing when he sees the lineup card, and then spends the next few games figuring out what is going on for himself.

by Donner on Oct 17, 2006 5:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

Spot on analysis
Your analysis on the need for rest and the advantage of giving that rest against LHs was exactly right.  There's unanswered question for today's comments: was Kotsay a whiny bitch (this applies to other players also) because of Macha's lack of communication, or because these players have cancer potential that need to be quashed or extinguished.  Billy needs to answer this question before he decides which manager to hire.
I still think the Big Hurt kicks ass.

by BlameChannel53 on Oct 17, 2006 5:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

Kotsay has a bunch of days off,
then says his back hurts, and his manager is supposed to say, "Oh, that's not at all unexpected; in fact it's PERFECTLY understandable!"

Macha said it was "puzzling." What a mean, mean thing to say.

Yeah, and kicking a man after he's just been fired shows lotsa class, Mark.

"The A's are boring because all they do is win."

by Checkswing HR on Oct 17, 2006 9:53 AM PDT reply actions  

i agree...he said it was "puzzling"....
...not that he was "bed-wetting momma's boy"...i'm also surprised at how upset the players are about the way that macha treated their injuries...what did they want him to do...kiss their booboos...
Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too

by littleA on Oct 17, 2006 11:35 AM PDT up reply actions  

The "puzzling" comment...
...was a very, very poor choice of words for a public statement, because at the time, it did sound as though he was questioning Kotsay's desire to play -- even though he probably wasn't.  When an injury assessment or "player readiness" can only be determined by asking the player "Do you feel like you can go?", I think it's important to not give any impression that you think your player is slacking.  I've never been a Macha basher, I actually like the guy and usually speak his language perfectly well, and I think some of the players have been oversensitive about the way he phrases things or whether or not he says "hi" to them in the dugout -- but I agree with them on some of the "injury insensitivities."
"I miss taking showers with Kendall" ~ Brian Giles

by Poppy on Oct 17, 2006 11:42 AM PDT up reply actions  

"Puzzling" in this context
is ambiguous. Macha could have meant "I don't understand how a lack of any sort of activity that would endanger someone's back has led to a back injury." Or, he could have meant, "Kotsay says he's hurt his back? That's a crock of shit. Faker!"
"The A's are boring because all they do is win."

by Checkswing HR on Oct 17, 2006 11:52 AM PDT up reply actions  

i have always respected your opinions, Poppy....
...however to me, "puzzling" does sound ambiguous,(a doctor could say a disease is puzzling her/him) however, maybe there was some underlying tension, which i suspect is real issue here, not the use of words....
Love is the most important thing in the world, but baseball is pretty good too

by littleA on Oct 17, 2006 11:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

Yes
The underlying tension is that Kotsay thinks he is better than he really is, which is why he bristled at the notion of his .707 OPS against LHs sit and watch while Kielty's .965 OPS played.  That is what Kotsay was pissed about, and is a potential problem for next year, becasue Kotsay is only going to get worse and will be the last guy to admit it.
I still think the Big Hurt kicks ass.

by BlameChannel53 on Oct 17, 2006 12:06 PM PDT up reply actions  

true
Kotsay wasn't pissed because Macha used the word "puzzled". Kotsay said it himself on numerous occasions: he was pissed due to the fact he thought he was in a platoon situation with The Clown.

And so when Macha goes with Kotsay in the playoffs against lefties he gets bashed for it. The friggin' guy couldn't win either way. Macha shouldv'e stuck to his guns and sat Kotsay and played The Clown against lefties. Apparently, the knives were already in Macha's back, so he had nothing to lose.  

This was about playing time. Pure and simple.  

"The Matt Watson/Chiba Lotte Marines Fan Club"-Through Oct 1st: GMS:68,AVG:.271,OBP:.362,SLG:.419, doubles:12, homers:5, RBI:20

by bigelephant on Oct 17, 2006 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

I agree, "puzzling" is very ambiguous.
That's why I think it was such a poor choice.  I remember reading that comment, and even though I realized he wasn't actually questioning Kotsay, I thought Wow, he really could've put that another way...  :\

Of course, as we saw with some reporters' early-season "selective quoting" of Milton Bradley, it's highly possible that Macha did go on to say why he was puzzled (like "We'd hoped the rest would do him some good, but back injuries are just incredibly difficult to make predictions about," etc...), and that part just didn't make it into print.

"I miss taking showers with Kendall" ~ Brian Giles

by Poppy on Oct 17, 2006 12:08 PM PDT up reply actions  

I thought he meant "puzzling"
like, "We just had an off day... why is his back hurting? His either faking it and doesn't want to play in front of seven people (including Sharon, HI!) in Tampa, or he's been out all night playing Naked Twister with three prostitutes (including Sharon, HI!)..."
"...I say let's get the boys together again and take another shot."

by Jennifer on Oct 17, 2006 12:05 PM PDT up reply actions  

HA!!!!
But in Sharon's case, he probably hurt his back while lying on the couch watching The Lake House.
Ho hum. Just another day for the OAKLAND ATHLETICS OF AWESOME! ~Kyli

by baseballgirl on Oct 17, 2006 12:57 PM PDT up reply actions  

I was thinking...
It was a simple statement about backs. They are puzzling.  One day you are fine and the next you cannot roll out of bed in the morning, and there is no obvious reason.  Poor choice of words, I think the right words would have been.

"Kotsay's back is acting up again. It is one of those things that happens with backs where you just don't know what they will do."

by Donner on Oct 17, 2006 5:39 PM PDT up reply actions  

Macha does not argue with umps.
That's his style, and it's never changed. It's not because he's not pissed off about bad calls. It's because he knows bad calls are part of the game, and he can't change them. I also believe that he thinks that if he shows respect to umps, he'll get respect in return. I haven't always agreed with his inaction. But after four years as manager, people should have accepted him the way he is on this issue.

As for Zito, what is so embarrassing to Zito for Macha to state that Zito felt he should be pulled from the game against the Angels? If you're done, you do a great service to the manager and the team by telling the manager.

What does that say about Zito that Zito expected Macha to lie about why he came out of that game?

"The A's are boring because all they do is win."

by Checkswing HR on Oct 17, 2006 10:08 AM PDT reply actions  

Wassup Checkswing?
It is what he said exactly. He made barry out to be the scapegoat for the loss.

Barry pitched his butt off and Macha brought in...Jim Mecir??? Tell me, you didn't know it was over right then and there?

"I think we just feel that now is our time." - Nick Swisher

by saint @ Athletics Nation on Oct 17, 2006 10:14 AM PDT up reply actions  

Good point.
But if you'll remember, our 'pen that year was terrible. TERRIBLE. Mecir was as big a risk as anyone.
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin, Seattle Mariners

by Helloooo 1st on Oct 17, 2006 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions  

The way it reads...
...was that Macha basically felt the A's would've won the game if Zito didn't take himself out after 7.

Zito has said he had nothing left. There's no shame in being honest about that.

But, when the manager brings in a guy in Mecir that everyone else seemed to feel would blow it, then says after the game that Zito took himself out as if that's why they lost...that's a problem.

by Flashfire on Oct 17, 2006 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions  

I can't blame Zito for that--
after he got pulled TONS of fans and the media absolutely ripped the guy for not being "man" enough and coming out of the game. Hell, a number of people here were calling for him to be traded rather than Mulder and Hudson because of that very game.

I'm guessing it's not an uncommon thing for a pitcher to tell a manager, "hey, I'm done". Yet you don't hear about it. In a game like that, I don't think it's wrong to expect the manager to own up to the events rather than pushing it off on the pitcher. It wasn't Zito's fault for what happened after he left the game, yet he took a good deal of blame from the press and the fans when he came out -- it shouldn't be so hard for Macha to deflect a little blame, it probably would have blown over a hell of a lot faster if he said he thought Zito was done than the whole rain of macho bullshit that followed the game.

"This must be heaven," he says.
"No. It's Oakland."

by Kyli on Oct 17, 2006 10:24 AM PDT up reply actions  

The buck stops here ...
whether you're the President of the United States and you've bungled something trivial, like a war or a hurricane response (entirely hypothetical and non-political) or you're the manager and you've made a bad decision using your bullpen, it's your responsibility to make the right call. Your employees can give you information with which to make the call, but in the end the decision is all yours and you have to take responsibility for it.

by devo on Oct 17, 2006 10:42 AM PDT up reply actions  

Macha was asked why he took out Zito.
Macha answered that Zito was feeling sore in the hips (or something like that), so Macha took him out of the game.

That is all Macha said. Macha was stating a fact, like stating that it rained because there was condensation in the f'ing clouds.  Macha did not say that Zito let down humanity or that it was Zito's fault that we lost.

And what the hell is wrong with a manager clarifying for the fans why he made a decision? The problem is with Zito for feeling that taking himself out off the game is a scandal that needs to be covered up. Think if Pedro had been willing to acknowledge that he needed to be taken out in the 7th inning of Game 7 of the '03 ALCS.

That Macha knew he was entirely responsible for the  decision, BASED ON the information being given him by his starting pitcher, is self-evident to everyone who is not predisposed to think the worst of Macha.

If you feel sorry because the fans wrongly dumped on Zito as if he lost the game, then why don't we dump on those fans for being unfair to Zito? Why dump on Macha?

"Why couldn't we have brought in Eck or Foulke?" The bullpen failure in that game was a collective effort, not just Mecir's. Rincon and Dotel also gave up big hits after Zito left.

"The A's are boring because all they do is win."

by Checkswing HR on Oct 17, 2006 11:27 AM PDT up reply actions  

Also ...

... whassup, saint?
"The A's are boring because all they do is win."

by Checkswing HR on Oct 17, 2006 11:28 AM PDT up reply actions  

If all that's been said is true ...
Macha's managerial/people skills left something to be desired.  My opinion in the whole thing comes from 5+ years of retail management.  Managing a cluhouse, people-wise, is not that far off from managing a store of 25-45 people.  You have your regular full-time employees, you have your part-time employees, you have people who want more hours (that you don't have to give), you have your disparate personalities.

In addition, any good manager (at least in the retail world), knows their staff's buttons and when to push them to get the most out of them.  They know how to groom/train their employees for the next step.  They know which method of communication works the best for each employee (trying to employ the same method for each person, doesn't typically work unless you manage robots).  A good manager sets a clear vision/goal, and a clear guidelines on how to get there.  I realize that Macha often had to juggle playing time, but from the sounds of how it was handled, I just kinda shook my head and shrugged.  As much as they like to keep things i-house, much controvery could've been diffused by sitting down each individual player in the office, and laying out when and how they would get starts.  As a former retail manager, I know that employees hate not knowing when they're gonna work (Imagine working 2 days a week, and being on call for the other 3).  They better you let them know ahead of time what they're chances of working are, the better that helps their preparation.

And lastly, as a team leader (which a manager should be, by default), you should always have your team's back, at least publicly.  That doesn't mean getting into arguments each time your player disputes the ump.  It doesn't mean getting yourself unnecessarily thrown out.  But from the sounds of it, the players at least wanted Macha to question the umps more often.  If the player turns out to be wrong, you address that behind closed doors.  But a reliable way to inspire your players, is to show that you're looking out for them.  It was my first (and best) manager that once taught me the golden rule of managing a staff - 'take care of your employees, and they'll take care of you.'

by Rickeyfan on Oct 17, 2006 10:26 AM PDT reply actions  

somewhat true, except:
We're taking about a multi-billion dollar industry with "employees" making multi-millions and with HUGE egos. This is true for both "the management" side and "the worker" side of things.

Plus, I'd agree that communication is key for manager and player. But let's not forget that in this working environment we not only have millionaires with egos but there is also the media putting their spin on every spoken and unspoken word.

Therefore, your analogy may be interesting but might not offer a realistic representation of what goes on in the MLB clubhouse.  

"The Matt Watson/Chiba Lotte Marines Fan Club"-Through Oct 1st: GMS:68,AVG:.271,OBP:.362,SLG:.419, doubles:12, homers:5, RBI:20

by bigelephant on Oct 17, 2006 12:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

more like managing a trading floor, maybe
but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 17, 2006 12:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

I found this one...
Antonio Perez: "Macha said I sucked.  He said he would pay me $50 bucks for every out I made.  I'm rich biatch!"
"Mom, I know you don't like baseball but I want to take you to a Giants game and see a real penant contender..." - 2006 Giants Radio Commerical

by What Would Rickey Do on Oct 17, 2006 1:43 PM PDT reply actions  

nice one
"The Matt Watson/Chiba Lotte Marines Fan Club"-Through Oct 1st: GMS:68,AVG:.271,OBP:.362,SLG:.419, doubles:12, homers:5, RBI:20

by bigelephant on Oct 17, 2006 2:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

Macha
I was one of Macha's biggest bashers the last couple of years and I was crushed when they hired him back. That being said, I actually thought Macha did his best job of managing last year. He felt the pressure of Lew Wolff's statement of making it to the World Series, and managed with more of a sense of urgency. I think he got tired of the injuries and I don't blame him, I got tired of them, too. You have Rich Harden and Bobby Crosby go down again for most of the year, 2 years in a row. You have Kotsay with his back going on and off again. The Duke, Street, Chavez,Bradley, ad nauseum. After turning the corner and having the team reach the LCS, he earned my respect, even though I didn't agree with all of his moves. I'm a little sorry to see him go.

by SanJoseRon on Oct 17, 2006 2:22 PM PDT reply actions  

You know what?
I can get behind that whole post.

I, also, thought Macha did his best job this year, BY FAR.

Ho hum. Just another day for the OAKLAND ATHLETICS OF AWESOME! ~Kyli

by baseballgirl on Oct 17, 2006 2:47 PM PDT up reply actions  

Perfect take...
my feelings exactly.  Macha is what he is and he did a really good job managing this year given what he had to work with and all of the injuries.  I'm sick of these little bitches (Kotsay, Kendall) whining about the guy because heaven forbid they get benched every now and then due to more favorable match-ups.  Deep down, Macha could be a better communicator and show a bit more passion but Beane knew who was getting when he brought him back last year.  I hardly feel what Macha did deserved the brutal back stabbing by players in the newspapers, many of the players which need to take a long, hard look in the mirror to reflect on their own short-comings.  Best of luck to Ken, he deserves another opportunity elsewhere.

by Miggy on Oct 17, 2006 3:26 PM PDT up reply actions  

Agree and disagree
Agree that Kotsay and Kendall are whiny bitches that really need to be elsewhere and they can take Payton with them.  I really don't like diminishing skills players who whine when they others notice their lack of skill, and the fact that they got a manager fired is only going to embolden them in thinking their incessant whining is OK.  Disagree that the bitchiness of those turds lets Macha off the hook.  He lost his clubhouse, and for a manager that is a fatal sin.  Even if he were a good manager otherwise, which I don't believe, he would have to go.  
I still think the Big Hurt kicks ass.

by BlameChannel53 on Oct 17, 2006 4:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

by no means am I suggesting...
that Macha is a perfect manager.  I just feel he isn't being given enough respect for what he has accomplished.  Kotsay pretty much states that they won in spite of him which I think is pretty classless to say.  Its not like Macha was a Larry Bowa-type a-hole going off on players.  I was just amazed at the cattiness exhibited by our supposed gamers after the firing, they were like acting like spoled little brats IMO.  The appropriate response was from Swisher, hey sorry to se him go, have trust in Billy and best of luck to Macha in the future...period.  That is the way to coport yourself as a professional.

by Miggy on Oct 17, 2006 4:59 PM PDT up reply actions  

we agree mostly
I think Macha was a terrible manager, but I think Kotsay and others were out of line and are now using Macha as an excuse for their own lack of performance.  It is not Macha's fault that Kotsay is a gimp who can't hit LHs.  
I still think the Big Hurt kicks ass.

by BlameChannel53 on Oct 17, 2006 5:16 PM PDT up reply actions  

we don't know what goes on behind closed doors
but if it were two or three guys that were not getting playing time that were bitching about macha, then i'd think that those players just need to shut up.

but when half the team probably isn't sad to see macha go, then there is a problem with him.

if macha's not happy and the players aren't happy, then the change is a good thing.

by gotgreen on Oct 17, 2006 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions  

Kotsay is injury prone ...
that much is true.  He has a bad back, which diminishes his value as a player.  But Macha said it was puzzling when he knew exactly what the problem was, as did everyone on this site.  Nationally, people didn't know that, and the comment gave the impression that Kotsay was a whiner.  There is no worse offense than for a manager to call out a player for his lack of desire or commitment.  He basically called Kotsay soft.  Personally, I think Kotsay is the best CF in baseball.  He's a decent hitter, not great, but the '06 A's won with defense and pitching, and your CF is EXTREMELY valuable to a team built on defense.  Regardless of my opinions of Kotsay the player, if your manager doesn't have your back as a player, he's of no use to you and you want him gone.
Kendall, on the other hand, may have taken one too many off the face mask by now.  Tough guy - yes.  Rational - no.

by iceplant on Oct 17, 2006 5:00 PM PDT reply actions  

who DOES have Kotsay's back?
It's been missing for several years now.

For that matter, who's got Crosby's and Duchscherer's?

but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 17, 2006 5:35 PM PDT up reply actions  

Baby.
Some are sabermetricians.

by andeux on Oct 17, 2006 5:37 PM PDT up reply actions  

Chili's
but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 17, 2006 6:02 PM PDT up reply actions  

Tired Act
Well I think we can decipher from these comments that michael urbans "source" for the Bradley article was prob. Kendall...why because he can't be on a team where eveyone doesn't do whatever he says, yes kendall had a great year, but I don't recall Kendall as bein someone that argued a lot 2 begin with. He's got cancer written all over him, just ask Bronson Arroyo who questioned his leadership with pitchers. And by the way, I hated Macha ever since his 1st year, but the parting shots were low especially from Kendall whom he never disrespected and played every day, when he shoulda been playing Melhouse, in a way, by being a bitch when he didn't start, he almost forced Macha and Melhouse to have an terrible relationship, because he was so concerned with pleasing Kendall.

by cadevil on Oct 17, 2006 8:14 PM PDT reply actions  

how do you get that kendall was urban's
source? i'm not getting the connection.
"Very nice day in the Oakland A... Oakland A's? What's this stadium called again?" Nick Swisher on TWIB.

by larrysgurl on Oct 17, 2006 8:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

Bronson Arroyo, the voice of reason.
"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 18, 2006 11:50 AM PDT up reply actions  

his willigness
to throw someone under the bus, there is no real reason why he should be upset with macha, kotsay maybe I can understand and chavez because of the way the way things happened after and during their injuries, but why is Kendal sticking his nose in it?Thats all I'm saying, if he's willing 2 stick his nose out 2 insult a guy who never did anythin 2 him, and after the fact then I could totally see him, complaining about another teamate.

by cadevil on Oct 17, 2006 8:51 PM PDT reply actions  

how do you know that there wasn't a problem
between kendall and macha though? we don't know everything that happened between them.
"Very nice day in the Oakland A... Oakland A's? What's this stadium called again?" Nick Swisher on TWIB.

by larrysgurl on Oct 17, 2006 8:53 PM PDT up reply actions  

ur right we don't
But his explanation 4 why he had a problem with macha was because Macha didn't stick up 4 guys on the team enough by arguing...well how often do you see Kendall arguing a call or ever be ejected(other than a fight), his reasoning for disliking Macha makes no sense. Kotsay and Bradley are the only guys who vehemently argue calls, so if he's going to speak out against a guy who is fired that's not a very good point coming from him. Kotsays point is basically that he was pissed of the way he ws handled in regard to his injury, Zito because of Macha's stupid remarks after the elimination game, so once again, why is Kendall chiming in, I guarantee there were more than these 5 guys that disliked them, but you didn't see them pop off did you? Ellis and Payton surely don't care for him, but they didn't take the low road

by cadevil on Oct 17, 2006 9:08 PM PDT reply actions  

i don't think it has anything to do with how
much kendall argues calls. players should feel like their manager has their back, and it's very obvious that kendall and other players didn't feel that way.
"Very nice day in the Oakland A... Oakland A's? What's this stadium called again?" Nick Swisher on TWIB.

by larrysgurl on Oct 17, 2006 9:21 PM PDT up reply actions  

disliked macha I mean
not "them" which I accidently wrote in regards to the 5 guys who were mentioned on this post

by cadevil on Oct 17, 2006 9:12 PM PDT reply actions  

having their back
Macha argued far more this year than others, sure he doesn't go out  there and throw bases and kick dirt and throw tantrums, what does it mean to have a "players back"...the only times I see that he didn't have someone's back was the Zito/Kotsay/Chavez situation. My problem once again is that he has no bussiness complaining to the media, if something happened behind the scenes, then it should have been left there. Once again I'm not macha fan, but when you have Kendall chiming in, you can't help but wonder why he even said anything, Machas fired, get over it, and have some class. I'll bring it up again, you didn't hear Ellis, payton and ther other guys he had problems with insult him after the firing

by cadevil on Oct 17, 2006 9:36 PM PDT reply actions  

we're just going to have to agree to disagree on
this.
"Very nice day in the Oakland A... Oakland A's? What's this stadium called again?" Nick Swisher on TWIB.

by larrysgurl on Oct 17, 2006 9:38 PM PDT up reply actions  

maybe we didn't hear from ellis and payton
and others because maybe susan slusser didn't interview them? maybe slusser decided to speak to the supposed leaders of the team about macha only?

by gotgreen on Oct 17, 2006 10:40 PM PDT up reply actions  

I repsect that
and I respect ur view on the situation, one of the problems with groups and blogs is that people get too obsessed with arguments and make it personal, glad to see that doesn't happen here.

by cadevil on Oct 17, 2006 9:44 PM PDT reply actions  

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