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Macha--A sort of defense

(The following assumes you know the quotes from Kendall, Kotsay, Zito, and Haren.)

I liked Macha as a manager--much more than many of you.

I think things could have been much worse (also better, of course).  What I liked about Macha was how he handled the pitching and the fact that he didn't make dumbass in-game decisions like so many managers do. Joe Torre ever letting Derek Jeter bunt--that's one dumbass in-game decision. He didn't do idiotic things like that, so I've been grateful.

But once you hear he's lost the team in the way he had; well, he's pretty much doomed.

Macha isn't a bad guy or a stupid guy. He just is generally pessimistic and uncommunicative, and that worked against him. He's too much Eyore to be a leader of men.

Because apparently it does matter that somebody comes out and bitches about a call. It does matter that now and then the skip buoys you up. It does matter that he makes you feel like a part of the team. It does matter that he has energy and confidence that you can draw energy and confidence from when times get tough. Macha fell short in these areas.

So I don't mind Kendall's comments about him not having fire so much. He's just identifying one of Macha's flaws, and one that, whether we fans want to believe it or not, harms the team.

Zito and Kotsay--they sound like pretty typical ballplayers who can't see beyond their own martyrdom (Zito) or inflated sense of self (Kotsay).

Kotsay, in particular, just seems like at times he isn't a very nice guy. He handled a post-game interview at the Coliseum like an absolute prick one time, and his quotes just scream out that he's self-centered, petty, and thus divisive. Remember when he bitched about being pulled from first late in one game in Baltimore?

That was the game after which Urban wrote about Bradley. Bottom line: If Kotsay were black he wouldn't be an ultra-competitive gamer, he'd be a problem. But Milton Bradley gets that role. And really, what a dick Michael Urban seems like in all of this for calling out Bradley repeatedly this year. Yeah, Bradley was the problem in the clubhouse. No, Michael, you tool, Kotsay and Kendall--two likely sources for your bullshit--are the problems, if anybody is.

Kotsay should have sat in Games 1 and 3 vs. Detroit. But he's too clueless to know that. I'm sure Macha would have sat him if he could go back now.

And Danny Haren. He just comes off like the stupid young guy who's following the lead of people it would be better not to follow. Danny doesn't get that Kotsay shouldn't be playing. Glad he saves you occasional runs, dude, but Kielty fricking mashes and gets you runs. So let's just ignore Danny saying that Kots should never have a day off vs. lefties.

Taken together, then: Macha--who again, I liked--needed to go. And in the process of his leaving, we learned some things about some of our players.

0 recs  |  Comment 52 comments

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I have to confess that
as a Kotsay man-crush supporter, I have been less than impressed with him at times lately, whether in interviews or in attitudes.

He seemed better on both counts in 2004-05; maybe, hopefully, he reverts back in 2007?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 17, 2006 7:44 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

He's
regressed to (being) mean.
Stat Wonk Futurist

by salb918 on Oct 17, 2006 8:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Nice :-)
Certum est quod certum reddi potest.

by oblique on Oct 17, 2006 9:17 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm confused
Do you:
  1. Have a man-crush on Kotsay;
  2. Support those who have a man-crush on Kotsay;
or 3) Think that Kotsay ought to be crushed amidst men?

by mikeA on Oct 17, 2006 8:08 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

None of the above--
I am the strap that holds up Kotsay's man-crush.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 17, 2006 9:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Kotsay's attitude probably had alot to do with
his relationship with Macha.

Kotsay is a great player and I thought he played well in the ALCS. His defense is what he was in for and I thought he had a "decent" series at the plate., better then some other guys.

I give Kotsay alot of credit for coming out and speaking his mind against a manager that got away with poor managing because he was always blessed with good ball players and a good coaching staff.

"I hate the Angels"

by Vegas A's Fan on Oct 18, 2006 9:34 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Kotsay did well at the plate ...
... in situations facing the pitchers against whom he was expected to do well; and he did poorly facing the pitchers against whom he was suck.

What is to me the most tragic thing about Kotsay is that he doesn't realize that Macha actually had Kotsay's best interests at heart: like any wise personnel manager in any field, Macha was trying to put Kotsay in situations in which Kotsay was more likely to succeed and not put him in those where he was likely to fail.

That's precisely the role of a manager: to identify those situations and assess the strengths and weaknesses of subordinates who are too wrapped up in the technicalities and techniques of their jobs to recognize their own strengths and weaknesses.

(Granted, Macha didn't always achieve that ideal; nor, apparently, did he succeed in the other key element of management, which is getting subordinate buy-in to the scheme.)

but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 18, 2006 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

uh ... left out an "expected to"
but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 18, 2006 10:37 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

He did have 2 doubles off Verlander
Granted, Verlander's not a southpaw, but no one's expected to do well against that guy.  We actually hit him the best of their 4 starters, however.  
"We don't want haddock and chips, we want cod. In cod we trust." --Ghostigital

by Cutthemullet on Oct 18, 2006 6:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

disagree
Though Kotsay only had 8 previous ABs vs Verlander and Kotsay doesn't have strong lifetime platoon splits, in '06 Kots did have more pronounced L/R splits and Verlander himself has significant lifetime platoon splits.

That was a significantly positive matchup for Kotsay going in.

Which, again, is not to minimize Kotsay's achievement in actually coming through with his performance. Just to say it was far more likely than his coming through in G1.

but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 19, 2006 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It is funny
Macha's primary weakness (but certainly not only) as a manager was his consistent failure to take advantage of opportunities when they arise.  It is comical that he gets ripped the most for one of the few smart things he did; platooning a .707 OPS hitter and a .965 OPS hitter.  
I still think the Big Hurt kicks ass.

by BlameChannel53 on Oct 18, 2006 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hopefully, both Kotsay and Kendall...
are gone in 2007.  That frees up $15 million that could be better spent elsewhere.  Centerfielders with a .719 OPS are a dime a dozen... we certainly don't need to be spending $7 million on one.  Actually, any decent fielding minor leaguer would be a better option.  Second to last in the league in OPS just doesn't cut it, Mark!

Kendall might be harder to replace (and, to get rid of), but Beane has a knack for this kind of thing.

I'm hopefull they're both gone and replaced with younger, less expensive players.

"When I got injured, I felt disrespected. Waaannnh!" - Mark Kotsay

by FoolshGame22 on Oct 18, 2006 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Your first paragraph
explains why Kotsay will be here next year rather precisely.  If you don't want what you describe, why would somebody else?
"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 18, 2006 11:08 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Unfortunately
You are right Jeepers.  Kotsay and Kendall have very little trade value, but of course there are stupid GMs out there who love grittiness and clutchiness.  It would be nice if we could find one of P.T. Barnum's suckers.
I still think the Big Hurt kicks ass.

by BlameChannel53 on Oct 18, 2006 11:13 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I didn't say we'd get anything decent for him...
but, there is usually somebody willing to take a risk that he'll "regress to his mean" next year.  Dump him for a bag of balls, save the money and get younger.  Throw in a million or two of his salary, if you must, to get rid of him.  That is still $5 million you could put toward signing a decent starting pitcher.
"When I got injured, I felt disrespected. Waaannnh!" - Mark Kotsay

by FoolshGame22 on Oct 18, 2006 11:15 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Then who plays CF?
Payton (at the same money)?  Two-buck Chuck?
"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 18, 2006 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Payton or Bradley...
They're both fine with me.  Or bring back Byrnes for half the price we're paying Kotsay.  He hit 26 home runs to Kotsay's 7.
"When I got injured, I felt disrespected. Waaannnh!" - Mark Kotsay

by FoolshGame22 on Oct 18, 2006 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not gonna happen
He's under contract with the D-Backs and has already been appointed their opening day left fielder.  Let it go, dude :-).
"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 18, 2006 11:37 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

isnt that exactly what we did
and  ended up with Kendall a couple years back.  

by NYC on Oct 18, 2006 11:25 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Part of being a manager
Is dealing with pricks and big egos.
A's all the way in 06 . . . oh never mind!

by micdog2001 on Oct 17, 2006 8:39 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Better an Eyore like Macha than a Tigger
like Ozzie.  
I don't know how I did it, but I quieted this crowd in my head today. -Zito, 10/3/06

by LAXile on Oct 17, 2006 8:59 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Hey, shut up!
Oh, you meant the other guy?
"It's time to blow this team up." - Oaktoon, July 2006

by Ozzz on Oct 17, 2006 9:10 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe he did, but I don't.
<makes two finger eye point and swivel at Oz>
"...sometimes I can't tell the difference between baseball and magic."- salb918 "Ellie plowed into him like an evil, pink unicorn."-ArakSOT

by McFood on Oct 17, 2006 11:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Two fingers?
You can't fit two fingers up here.
"It's time to blow this team up." - Oaktoon, July 2006

by Ozzz on Oct 17, 2006 11:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

wow- like Babe Ruth
The "Called Snot":  "I'm puttin' this baby in the right field bleachers!"

by Brian in 317 on Oct 18, 2006 7:23 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Blechhhh!
After that, I'm gonna need at least two fingers of tequila.
"...sometimes I can't tell the difference between baseball and magic."- salb918 "Ellie plowed into him like an evil, pink unicorn."-ArakSOT

by McFood on Oct 18, 2006 7:42 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Or a fist of greenies.
"It's time to blow this team up." - Oaktoon, July 2006

by Ozzz on Oct 18, 2006 1:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Another part of being a manager....
..is accepting you're making a million bucks a year, as opposed to $1.4m, and deciding not to spend most of the year sulking that you didn't get your way.

another part of it is, oh, maybe utilizing some of the tactics that baseball people utilize, like pulling a starter who is getting creamed, or playing your utility guys in blowouts so they can maintain their swing, or pulling a hit'n'run just once, like, ever.

Macha was a caretaker. He wasn't a manager. Replace him with a clubhouse security camera and you're going to get the same results for $1m less per year.

"It's time to blow this team up." - Oaktoon, July 2006

by Ozzz on Oct 17, 2006 9:10 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Beane hired Macha to be a caretaker
Macha was a caretaker because that is exactly what Beane wanted.  Beane hired Macha (and Howe) to be a caretaker because that is the only role Beane envisions for a manager.

One might say that Beane's vision is limited in that regard.

by socal on Oct 17, 2006 9:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I disagree.
I think Beane thought Macha was a fine manager and worth a mill per year.

Then I think Macha got annoyed he had to come crawling back for that mill, and basically phoned it in all year, knowing if he got fired, he'd pocket two years of salary when his contract was torn up.

Sure, Beane likes to hold a manager's hand, but you can't tell me Billy was phoning down from his gymnasium in the 8th inning, saying "keep Sauerbeck in."

"It's time to blow this team up." - Oaktoon, July 2006

by Ozzz on Oct 17, 2006 10:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

plus, you might save $$$ ...
... when you discover that Kotsay is stealing locker-room towels, too!
but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 18, 2006 10:36 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That Kotsay game
Your point about Kotsay and Kendall (and indirectly, about Bradley and Urban as well) is absolutely dead on. (And sal nailed this one at the time).

When I saw Kotsay's quotes today, I was thinking about the game you mention: Kotsay made two bad errors trying to play first, and after he was moved back into centerfield for the last couple of innings he complained that he was embarrassed by what Macha did. Not embarrassed by his two errors, apparently, which might have cost the team the game, but embarrassed by the manager moving him back to his natural position. What happened to "wearing it"?  And I saw the same kind of thing from Kendall. Both seemed increasingly more concerned with how tough they looked than with how they performed. That's sure as hell not leadership.

Some are sabermetricians.

by andeux on Oct 17, 2006 9:11 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Also Kotsay, historically,
can hit LHP just fine--if not better--than he hits RHP, but this season he clearly did not (for whatever, or no, reason). Macha finally did what he usually failed to do, and that is sit the struggling player in favor of a better (Kielty) or hotter (Payton) option instead of "chewing on it," like it were gum, for 2 months.

Essentially, here, Kotsay is complaining about one of the few times Macha got it right in regards to the lineups and underperforming "untouchable" players.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 17, 2006 9:25 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I disagree.
When the players are bitching about not being protected, they're not complaining about being put in situations over their head, they're complaining about their boss never - ever - coming in to back them up on a bad call, or a harsh media question.

And we've seen it many times - a tight call at first, and where's Macha? Daydreaming.

A pitcher has our number, indicating we should bring in a pinch-hitter to shake things up, but Macha won't do so in case there's an injury and we're short a backup.

That's not managing. That's 'being present'. I'm with the players here.

"It's time to blow this team up." - Oaktoon, July 2006

by Ozzz on Oct 17, 2006 10:29 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

They need protecting from harsh media questions?
Come on, these are grown men.  If they cannot handle "harsh media questions" they don't need a protector, they need a babysitter.  If they're man enough to cash the check, they're man enough to handle any question some reporter throws at them.  

by IndianaAsfan on Oct 18, 2006 7:49 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Here's my take on it.... Kotsay was man enough to
take on the challenge of playing a new position. Macha didn't have to put him there. I'm sure Kotsay didn't make the errors on purpose and all Macha did by taking kotsay off of first, was try and mask his own mistake of putting him there to begin with.

Kotsay did what he was asked to do, I'm sure he didn't go out and guarante he would be a great first baseman.

Macha ALWAYS set his players up to fail and made them look bad in the process.

"I hate the Angels"

by Vegas A's Fan on Oct 18, 2006 9:37 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I've Stayed Silent Through the...
...playoffs but no more!

It's easy to see why Macha's lack of communication got him fired. It was his inability to communicate effectively with Beane as well as his players.

Kotsay's myopic view failed to take into consideration that when he played too much he got hurt. The last 6 weeks were used masterfully by Macha to keep Kots fresh for the playoffs. That was Macha's gamble. It prevailed in allowing the A's to get to the playoffs but it failed in that he should have been replaced by Kielty at strategic moments during the Detroit series.

Macha was an engineering major for Pete's sake! Those aren't the most touchy-feely individuals you'll find out there. His introvertish nature lent him more to be defined as the thinking man's manager. All we had to do was follow his logic and see what the results would be. Simple enough? Hardly. He had questionable decisions at times, but overall he steered this team to the playoffs in impressive fashion.

Macha was frustrated as we all were this year with the injury bug. It was unbelievable how well he managed the team through this amount of adversity. No one was complaining (loudly) in August, but everyone knew that Beane stacked the roster to handle the potential devastation during the early months and all Macha had to do was keep it together. He did.

When the injuries hit a couple of players who were referred to as "non-entities" it was perceived as an insult. Hardly. It was "Macha-ese" for saying those players have zero effect b/c they aren't on the roster to be inserted into games to help. That's not an insult, it was the reality at the time.

Let's give Macha credit late in the year for also bear hugging Bradley late in the year when he was riled up at questionable umpire's call. That bear hug wasn't so touchy feely as some would have hoped but it did save MB from a suspension.

During the ALCS I was jealous every time I heard references to Leyland and his ability to guide, encourage and intervene at the appropriate times to get his players to perform. It drove me nuts thinking about what he would do with our team. I WANT A JIM LEYLAND TYPE OF MANAGER IN OAKLAND!

I don't know if we are going to get one. Our current list doesn't thrill me. I just hope Beane has the werewithall to find someone who's effective in Leyland way of doing things. We shall see.

"I've been accused of using too many words...I suppose that's like accusing Mozart of using too many notes." Bill King

by Gerard on Oct 17, 2006 9:24 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I'd agree with every word of this
Leyland bugs me, though, as a tactician. He does some really stupid crap that, unfortunately, we didn't exploit for a win (starting Robertson Game 1, Perez hitting #2 in Game 2, closing with Todd Jones, leaving Shelton off the roster to carry three middle infielders, etc.). Had we performed and won, or had the Yankees just finished them off, he wouldn't be looking good at all.

That said, I too want a more hand-on, fiery, assertive leader of men. I want a manager the players really want to win for, really believe in. I vote for Ron Washington.

by RLangford on Oct 17, 2006 10:51 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Robertson
He's started game #1 in both series that the Tigers won.  What's wrong with that?  He's one of the most underrated left-handed pitchers out there.  When a pitcher is the winning pitcher in game one and doesn't give up a run it's pretty difficult to argue he shouldn't have been starting.  He was a hell of a lot better than Zito.

by IndianaAsfan on Oct 18, 2006 7:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Your description of Macha reminds me
of a joke I once heard about mathematicians.

Q:  How can you tell if a mathematician is an extrovert?

A:  They're staring at YOUR shoes.

"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 18, 2006 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It was great that he pulled away MB away from
the situation - but in retrospect that should've been Washington pulling Bradley away.

Macha should have jumped in from of MB and done his arguing for him - and by doing this showing support for his player in his moment of angst - he shouldn't have picked him up (although that was impressive in itself) like a baby and escorted him away from the ump, as this could send the message that he is siding with the ump.

And this happened all the time as the players, or base coaches were left to fend for themselves as Macha just watched from the dugout.

by SD Erik on Oct 18, 2006 5:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

A sort of defense of Haren's comments:
I thought the overall point he was making was that it was unfair to sit Kots vs. lefties for most of the regular season and then expect him to hit someone like Santana in the playoffs. True, the position he took was that Kots should have hit vs. lefties in the regular season as well and not that Kielty should have been used in the postseason, but his point regarding Macha's inconsistancy in that regard is valid.

You didn't say anything about Chavvy's comments, which I thought were equally significant, in character, and less easily dismissable as ego or bad attitude.

by diabolicslugs on Oct 17, 2006 9:36 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Chavvy was just his usual self
Gets along with everybody, nice guy, balanced.

by RLangford on Oct 17, 2006 10:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

chavy will say whatever to whoever to avoid
confrontation.

He's laid back and doesn't want to argue. I think that's ok, but sometimes it would be nice for him and take a stance on something and be strong with it.

"I hate the Angels"

by Vegas A's Fan on Oct 18, 2006 9:39 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Manager Solution:
If the players are all crabby about getting no respect, I say let the inmates run the asylum.

Best Candidates:

Frank Thomas- He's the big vet, and he sits around in the dugout not playing defense all game, he's probably bored. He needs the extra challenge.

Nick Swisher- He's got that Ozzie Guillen fire and will make everybody do that handshake. He's totally mature enough..

Scott Hatteberg- Beane loves him. Bring him on back.

by Hegenberger Road on Oct 17, 2006 9:50 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

With Hatty as manager,
we win 162 games AND solve every crossword puzzle in the New York Times.

There is no downside, I tell you!

"This must be heaven," he says.
"No. It's Oakland."

by Kyli on Oct 18, 2006 10:03 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not to mention...
...the wine list in the clubhouse will be amazing.

Oh, wait...

"I miss taking showers with Kendall" ~ Brian Giles

by Poppy on Oct 18, 2006 6:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Look, I have an answer.
I'll manage.

I start Monday.

"It's time to blow this team up." - Oaktoon, July 2006

by Ozzz on Oct 17, 2006 11:32 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

what i like about macha
i don't know of many managers who can walk up to an irate milton bradley and non chilliantly carry him back to the dug out.  

with regards to injuries, it should be noted that macha is a black belt in karate and possibly sees pain/injury as something that is mental and preventable.  granted, guys are going to get banged up.  

with regards to holding the team together during injuries, it's not as if he traded for or signed marco scutaro, bobby kielty, kirk sarloos, duke, and every other key guy who chipped in when our starting nine dropped this year.  credit goes to the front office for compiling a roster that was able to replace starters with guys who held the team together.  macha simply did the obvious, what any of us would have done.  harden gets injured, you put sarloos back in rotation.  

with regards to our bullpen, it's as if we have two bullpens with the depth we had this year.  we could trot out one group one day and another the next if we so cared.  it was very impressive.  

A's Raiders Ducks

by mcbronsh on Oct 18, 2006 2:27 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

what i like about macha
is that he has, from time to time, shown a great deal of respect for his guys.  Witness the following quote:

"Keeping him on the field is huge,'' manager Ken Macha said. "The guy is a grinder. You want all your guys playing like that. He sets by example what to do, and he's pretty much in charge of the dugout.''   Macha 7/17/06

"We owe it all to one man. And we are all extraneous. 'Billy' has denuded us of ego". Liar's Poker

by Sashulia on Oct 18, 2006 5:37 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

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