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Changing Their Stripes

Tyler_at_maya_school_tiny by Tyler Bleszinski on in News Comment 279 comments

Sometimes you just have to pause and tip your cap to your opponent.  The Tigers have done something in this series that no one expected.  They've shown patience and have approached the A's pitchers in a method more reminiscent of the Yankees than the free swinging Motowners from the regular season.

They had an outstanding approach in every single game.  And Rogers obviously had a great plan on how to pitch against the A's.  It also helped that the A's approach was just miserable and as though the A's didn't get a scouting report before the game.

If you had told me before the series started that the A's wouldn't get a hit from Frank Thomas for the first three games, I would tell you they would be down 0-3.  And that's exactly the case.  Thomas carried the A's offense for the latter half of the season and maybe people have learned how to pitch to Frank a little more effectively or he's tired or he's pressing.  Maybe it's a little of everything.  But Thomas and Swisher are keys to this team's offense.  But Thomas more than anyone.

Stop the D'Angelo Jimenez complaining too.  No one wants Jimenez out there, but you're essentially down to your fourth infielder.  The truth is that you win and lose as a team.  The A's approach at the plate was awful, especially for an ump who had a very tight strike zone.  The Tigers looked like the green and gold today.  And you're never going to win a game without scoring runs.

The only objective the A's should have at this point is to try to get some respectability.  It's easy for all the columnists who were saying the A's were going to win this series to jump ship.  And even though the A's beat a team that was probably superior to them in the first round, expect to start to hear the familiar refrains about the team.  People love to hate our lovable muppets.

Congrats to Rich Harden on a successful postseason start.  You had an excellent game after an understandably rusty first two innings.  I truly hope that if we don't see you again in 2006, that we'll have you for an entire 2007.  The prospect makes me very excited.

Any way, the season comes down to Danny Haren against Jeremy Bonderman, the kid who will look to stab the organization that traded him away in the heart.  Expect to see an amped Bonderman tomorrow as he's always loved beating the A's.  This would be an ultimate victory for him.  Haren remains the A's hope to extend the series one more game and give Barry Zito a chance to end his career in green and gold on a much brighter note.

But truthfully, the A's need to be the patient hitters they've been all season long.  Make Bonderman throw strikes.  Take a lesson from the Tigers who've gone against the old saying and have been able to change their stripes.

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the Tigers have played like
the better team, so they have deserved to win. I'm not blaming anyone.

If the A's have any chance -- even to make this series a bit closer than it has been -- they are going to have to play like the better team.

On a lighter note, Tim Hudson will be on the postgame show.

by OaklandSi on Oct 13, 2006 4:52 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Couldn't agree more...
The Tigers are playing like the better team, we can injuries as an excuse, but the fact is that they've had them too.  They're on a roll, ya tip your cap, hope you can get one game to avoid the sweep or two to take it back to Oaktown, but this Tigers team is just playing on another level.  

I'm just glad I didn't have to go into the off season thinking that 0-12 in clinching games was still there.

Hey great year so far, considering the injuries we've had I'm VERY pleased with this season.

by Rickey35 on Oct 13, 2006 5:17 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Tigers are just playing like they always do
They won games like this all year, with solid pitching and bunches of singles. They don't have a real power hitter on their team, but they have a bunch of guys who make contact with the ball and run hard. They didn't change their stripes, they're playing their game.

The A's are the ones who seem to be so fixated on "post-season baseball" being so different they have to go out there and try and be something they aren't.

To me, the most encouraging thing that happened today was Nick Swisher actually putting a ball in play. He got thrown out, but at least the Puddy Tats had to work a little for the out.

It would be nice if the A's would play at least one game in Detroit as they played all season, and super-nice if the Tigers would play like they did oin their late-season tailspin. That's the only thing that can turn this turkey around.

The A's success should surprise no one. They're a much better team than people give them credit for. -- Joe Morgan

by BubbaDude on Oct 13, 2006 6:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I totally agree
Like it in other times in life,  you just have to tip your hat to better teams.  
"I try to figure this team out, and if I could, I'd be a genius," Mark Ellis

by Little Lebowski Urban Achievers on Oct 14, 2006 1:52 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Tigers are singles hitters
who don't have power hitters?
On Sunday, Minaya ticked off a list of candidates to join the rotation, and for once this season, none of them was Jose Lima.

by rfloh on Oct 13, 2006 10:21 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Pretty much
They don't have any long-ball guys who compare to Uncle Milt, Hurt, or Swish.
The A's success should surprise no one. They're a much better team than people give them credit for. -- Joe Morgan

by BubbaDude on Oct 13, 2006 11:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Marcus Thames? Craig Monroe? Curtis Granderson?
Brandon Inge?

Have you looked at the A's slugging percentage? The Tigers?

On Sunday, Minaya ticked off a list of candidates to join the rotation, and for once this season, none of them was Jose Lima.

by rfloh on Oct 14, 2006 12:22 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not a single 30-HR guy on their team.
Just a bunch of guys with good power.  No one with great power.  

Then again, that could also be a product of that ginormous ballpark.

by bigthree17 on Oct 14, 2006 12:26 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Detroit had a slugging
percentage of 449, 6th in the majors. Oakland had a slugging of 412, 27th in the majors.

For comparison, the White Sox were 1st with 464, the Pirates last, with 397.

Just because the Tigers don't have a guy who achieved some arbitrary number doesn't mean that they have less power than the A's.

Pretty much all the Tigers starters, with the exception of Sean Casey, have good or at least decent extra base hit abilities.

On Sunday, Minaya ticked off a list of candidates to join the rotation, and for once this season, none of them was Jose Lima.

by rfloh on Oct 14, 2006 8:16 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

In this series it's been singles and walks
Check out the team stats at MLB.

In this series, the Tigers have 28 hits: 18 singles, 5 doubles, 5 homers. The A's have 21 hits: 13 singles, 5 doubles, and 3 homers. The Tigers have an OBP of .356 to .290 for the A's. That's the difference in the series, not the two extra homers.

Another big stat is 24 SOs for the A's, and only 15 for the Puddy Tats. The only A who can score on a strikeout is Scutaro, and he needs to be on second base to do it.

The A's success should surprise no one. They're a much better team than people give them credit for. -- Joe Morgan

by BubbaDude on Oct 14, 2006 11:02 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

My point was that
throughout the regular season, Detroit was a team that was capable of getting extra base hits.
On Sunday, Minaya ticked off a list of candidates to join the rotation, and for once this season, none of them was Jose Lima.

by rfloh on Oct 14, 2006 11:36 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh and if anything
The A's have no pressure now.  Let's make sure that the old saying that the last win is the hardest to get stands true tomorrow.

by Tyler Bleszinski on Oct 13, 2006 4:53 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

but that pressure will build with each
scoreless inning in game 4.
a manager, my kingdom for a manager!

by ak_A on Oct 13, 2006 4:56 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm keeping some hope for a 4 game win streak
That's all there is to it, we need our guys to play like they're capable of, timely walks and hitting and some great pitching...we can do it.

by tomoyo on Oct 13, 2006 4:56 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

nice summary
i'd like to see the a's show some fire
and passion. i wouldnt have minded if
payton charged the mound today after
rogers struck him out in the 7th and
had a rather extended celebration on
the mound. i dont like to see the a's
just take this crap tamely without a
fight.

apart from bradley, kotsay and at times
kendall there hasnt been another player
whose shown me that he really and truly
cares. and as a fan that's what really
bugs me.

by oak1 on Oct 13, 2006 4:56 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Dude you need to start watching hockey
instead if you wanted Payton to charge the mound ;-)

by Tyler Bleszinski on Oct 13, 2006 5:02 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

well ...
it did look like hockey season out there in
detroit today;)

by oak1 on Oct 13, 2006 5:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I Disagree
With You When You Say That The A's Are Not Playing With A Fire In Their Belly. I Was At Game 2 On Wednesday, And I Have To Say That Is The Most Intense I Have Ever Seen The Coliseum. The Place Was Rockin, And The Team Seemed Pumped. The Bottom Line So Far Is That The A's Have Not Really Been Playing Horribly. They Have Had A Ton Of Bad Breaks Over The Past Three Games, And The Loss Of Mark Ellis Is Glaring Obvious. If Ellis Were Playing Second In Game 1 And 2, It Would Have Been An Entirely Different Ballgame. Our Weakest Point So Far Has Been Our Starting Pitching, And I Think That The Detroit Has To Take Credit For That, Because They Were Able To Adapt Themselves And Play Our Game, And Caught Us Totally Off Guard.
"I Will Not Relent, I Am Driven"... Clutch
Bring Back The Bash!!!

by Shippee33 on Oct 13, 2006 5:04 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

wow
you capitalized the first letter of every word

by AsFanTexas on Oct 13, 2006 5:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

yeah, my mind wants to stop
with each word....
a manager, my kingdom for a manager!

by ak_A on Oct 13, 2006 5:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

the colliseum was pumped
but were the a's? and if they were they
certainly didnt channel their energies into
the game. i think more there is more than
one player who played the first two games
with stars in his eyes just happy to
be there to care about moving one step
further. or perhaps the national attention
was a bit much for the younger players. i'd
like to see some guys actually feel a little
upset about losing games in the postseason,
rather than laying back and waiting for the
next day without changing the game plan.
especially if that game plan isnt working.

by oak1 on Oct 13, 2006 5:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Charging the mound...
Oh, yeah, that would've helped.  It might've made you feel better, but it would smack of desperation and just make Payton look like a fool.
"So, whatever, Ozzie." -- Nick Swisher

by FormerHuntsvilleStar on Oct 13, 2006 5:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

did you see the way Rogers celebrated?
after striking payton out. i mean talk about a guy being classless. it wasnt as bad as derek lowe back in 2003 but it was close.

i officially hate kenny rogers after today's game
for dominating the a's the way he has. and shoving
it up our nose for good measure.

by oak1 on Oct 13, 2006 5:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I agree.
There's a difference between showing passion and acting pissed.
What are you, the AN bullpen fluffer? ~ salb918

by poetwee on Oct 13, 2006 6:53 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

i posted this in the other thread
but in case anyone dident see if because its at the bottom

jimenez has a better series average
than:

thomas
chavez
swisher
scutaro

by AsFanTexas on Oct 13, 2006 4:58 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I love the A's. No matter what.
"Don't you play the flute, Huddy?"

by capper3 on Oct 13, 2006 4:58 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Thanks Blez
I think all of these are great points. The A's seem to be having one of those streaks where the baseball looks like a BB. In addition I have always felt that in critical games payroll makes a difference. The A's had their chances in game 1 and let them get away. Unfortunately the A's seem to have already passed the hurdle that we all wanted to see. The old adage that it is a game of inches has played into this series. Nothing seems to be rolling the A's way. That includes having the game time moved from the evening.
I am not giving up but it is fair to give the Tigers and Leyland their due. Macha is a good skipper but Leyland is the man. I have a feeling  if Leyland was the A's manager that Harden would have started game 1 with Zito going in game 2. The rotation never lined up well for this series. Game 2 is critical and the A's wasted their limited offense on a weak Loaiza performance.

by yblood2hof on Oct 13, 2006 4:59 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

pitching rotation
should have been zito, harden, haren, loiaza
as has already been pointed out several times
earlier. i just didnt see the merit of loiaza
pitching second but anyway billy beane made the
call and there you have it.

but i must say that with the way the a's offense
has been going this series the order of the
pitching rotation is probably immaterial to
the final outcome. unless we get our offense
going its going to be a short series.

by oak1 on Oct 13, 2006 5:03 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

This is the cap being tipped. <tip>
They've played like champions this postseason, they've certainly earned their way to this point. They're a good opponent. I just wish the team played better in the first two games, really showed the kind of team that they are.

The thing that really kills me inside is the idea that the Coliseum will sit quiet next week. That there'll be no more foul lines on the grass, no more drummers in the stands, no more chants and Stomper dances and endless hours of our boys on the field.

I love October baseball, and the idea of it ending is just heart-wrenching. The idea of never seeing Barry Zito stride out on that field in a white uniform with green socks at his knees breaks my heart. I wanted to see him in a World Series game. I wanted to see him stare down the competition in Game 1.

The past month and a half have been rough for me, but I've always been able to come home to the A's, and that means everything to me. They gave us one hell of a ride, and it's genuinely made a difference in my life. I'm not ready for it to be over.

Seeing them in the ALCS is amazing, even with the losses... And they may be down 3-0, but honestly, I'm not ready to give up yet. The boys were NAILS for quite awhile this season, they've made it so far this season, let's just give 'em some hope and joy and excitement until the very last minute of their ride in the playoffs. Because it's sure as hell not over yet.

We've seen before that it's not over, it's never over until that final damn out. Haren's a big game pitcher, tomorrow's a big game. I really believe these boys won't go down quietly -- let's make this a race. There's more baseball to play.

"This must be heaven," he says.
"No. It's Oakland."

by Kyli on Oct 13, 2006 5:00 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

<Sniff>
Wow.  Great post, Kyli!  

by AsGirl on Oct 13, 2006 5:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Amen Kyli
Nice Post.  If only I can see Zito have one more start as an Oakland A...I'll be happy!

by The Elephant on Oct 13, 2006 5:56 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It sure is hard being down this way
Try as we might, it's hard to find one person responsible. That would be too easy. Kendall has gotten his hits, as has Kotsay. Bradley (until today) had been very solid. Scutaro and Thomas did their part in the ALDS. The pitching was good today (after a rocky start). Jimenez hasn't wowed anybody, but he can't be blamed for a team of major league hitters being shut out.

Kielty DP'd in his only appearance, but the A's were already down 3-0.

Those things that went our way last week are not going our way this week, and here we are - in a position we all hate. And more than likely, we're going to have at least one more painful game where we all turn off the TV set after yelling at one more out in yet another painful inning of a frustrating game. Then, we count the days until Spring Training. It's how baseball works. 29 teams will go home frustrated. We just never want it to be us.

More than just ANtics: http://www.louisgray.com/live/

by louismg on Oct 13, 2006 5:01 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Hitting lefty
Eternal Springs™: The official October bottled water of your Oakland Athletics

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Oct 13, 2006 6:37 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hey I am not going to stop
my Jimenez whining. He isn't the main reason we are losing but he helps in that effort!

by IM4Oakgal on Oct 13, 2006 5:02 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

thats a cop out
hes not supposed to carry us

thomas, chavez and swisher have made just as many mistakes as jimenez

this jimenez bashing is stupid, hes not a money player, hes not supposed to carry us

by AsFanTexas on Oct 13, 2006 5:04 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

hey all-knowing AN veterans
before i knock jimenez some more, is it okay to knock Bobby Crosby for being a f-ing puss?  
"Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser" -- Vince Lombardi

by HugeAthleticSupporter on Oct 13, 2006 5:23 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

so being a athletics supprter means...
i can't criticize??
"Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser" -- Vince Lombardi

by HugeAthleticSupporter on Oct 13, 2006 5:51 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

calling names is criticism?
<is critical of HugeAthleticsSupporter>
Squeak!

by ArakSOT on Oct 13, 2006 5:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

criticize
  1. to find fault with
  2. to judge the merits and faults of; evaluate
American Heritage Dictionary, 205 (3rd ed. 1994)

Bobby Crosby is frequently hurt. This time it's his back, but it's always something.  In my opinion, he is a puss. Calling someone a name can qualify as criticism.

 

"Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser" -- Vince Lombardi

by HugeAthleticSupporter on Oct 13, 2006 7:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're right
Crosby is always getting hurt, and so is Ellis and so is Harden. All in all the A's are a bunch of fragile flowers. Don't they have the budget for a conditioning coach?
The A's success should surprise no one. They're a much better team than people give them credit for. -- Joe Morgan

by BubbaDude on Oct 13, 2006 11:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

<shakes Magic 8-Ball>
Outlook not so good.
AN apeshit!

by Jennifer on Oct 13, 2006 5:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

for the A's...
no.  But I didn't need a Magic Eight Ball to tell me that.
"Show me a good loser, and I'll show you a loser" -- Vince Lombardi

by HugeAthleticSupporter on Oct 13, 2006 5:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

<Lotus Notes was better>
"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 13, 2006 7:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Groupwise!
"so... I'll take that as 'none of your business'" ~ ArakSOT

by eamb on Oct 13, 2006 8:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

How do you figure?
Do you mean 4th backup infielder?  
I think a valid complaint is that the A's want to emphasize defense, and are willing to tolerate o'fers offensively to get it.  Macha wants Kotsay in the lineup against the lefties over Kielty because he gives the A's the best defensive outfield.  Fine, I can accept that and get behind it.  However, your defensive infield is more important than outfield, yet Jimenez gets sent out there despite making defensive plays college coaches don't tolerate out of their second basemen.  Now, the counter argument is who would I rather have out there?  Ginter, for one.    He is no worse than Jimenez defensively, and I happen to think a little better.  He also has the potential to be more effective offensively.  I realize that the A's would have had to sign him for next year, but I just wish they would be honest when they give the reason Ginter wasn't added to the roster.  His defense had nothing to do with it.  Macha described it as "average."  Well, Jimenez is below average.

by IndianaAsfan on Oct 13, 2006 5:27 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

FiF?
Isn't he our fifth infielder? If Perez were healthy, wouldn't he likely be ahead of Jiminez? I haven't been thrilled with D'Angelo's performance, but you can't really expect to go that far down your depth chart and get a gold-glove-wearing power hitter. He's not the main culprit in the three losses.

by TempletonPeck on Oct 13, 2006 5:36 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's Our FIFTH Infielder.
If Perez were healthy, he's be starting at second

by Eck on Oct 13, 2006 8:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

He's actually the
seventh or eighth...
  1. Chavez
  2. Crosby
  3. Elllis
  4. Swisher
  5. Scutaro
  6. Perez
  7. Jimenez/Johnson
He's still sixth or seventh if you take Swisher out of the equation, and fifth if you just count middle infielders.

by IndianaAsfan on Oct 13, 2006 8:27 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

How about
MaEl remorse instead of Jimenez whining.

by mikeA on Oct 13, 2006 6:01 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

There ya go Mike
well kinda. Noone is saying he(jimenez) is the only reason. But he's ONE of our problems in these playoffs. So get real. It's just as valid to bitch about him as it is to mention Frank Thomas having a silent bat.

by IM4Oakgal on Oct 13, 2006 7:23 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

re
A's match up well with Bonderman (or, well for a Tigers starter), but it's tough to get out of a slump by taking a lot of pitches though.  It might be more effective for them to go aggressive rather than taking pitches.  Tigers bullpen is so good that it doesn't help too much to get into it anyway.  See the ball, drive the ball...

Forget the series, just win tomorrow.  

by 31Boots on Oct 13, 2006 5:03 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Bonderman matchup
I don't think the A's have ever beaten Bonderman.

by IndianaAsfan on Oct 13, 2006 5:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

are you sure?
I don't have the stats in front of me, but I think they may have beaten him at least once, and perhaps more than once.

Of course, this is the postseason.

by OaklandSi on Oct 13, 2006 5:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

My fault
The A's have pinned 3 losses on Bonderman, and hit .266 against him as a team.  I have no idea what I was thinking - too much Kenny Rogers, I guess.
Thanks for the correction.

by IndianaAsfan on Oct 13, 2006 5:38 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Blez....Great writeup
You have a true talent for summarizing everything well in just a few paragrahs...and so soon after a loss.
Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Oct 13, 2006 5:05 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Thanks, OP
The Tigers have just been great about changing their approach.  They obviously knew that Harden struggled with command his last time out, so they didn't swing until Harden proved he could throw strikes.  That's great advanced scouting and the players following a game plan.

by Tyler Bleszinski on Oct 13, 2006 5:13 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am convinced that ...
... the Tigers and Yankees batters suffered a Freaky Friday-type brain swap right before the Tigers' clincher. The Yankees were swinging first-pitch every AB, and the Tigers ever since have been the model of patience.
but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 13, 2006 5:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It is wild....
It is like they became a different team before the Yankees series.  All I heard was they are aggressive and dont work the count...and that is all they have done through 7 playoff games...Amazing transformation.
Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Oct 13, 2006 5:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It looks bad right now,
and we may be near the end of the 2006 A's.  If that's so, I'm reminded of the parting line from the Bad News Bears.  Where the Yankees congratulate the Bears on not sucking as bad as everyone thought they should.  Tanner yells over to them "Hey Yankee's, take your trophy and shove it up your ass.  Wait till next year."  

Bring on the AL west champions of 2007.

"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on Oct 13, 2006 5:05 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

By the way
I felt like the A's had only THREE good ABs against Rogers today.  One was Bradley, Swisher and Chavez (who would've had a home run in any other field on any other day).  The rest of the ABs were just ugly.

by Tyler Bleszinski on Oct 13, 2006 5:08 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Hang on a minute...
I just got a hold of the scouting report, and apparently Kenny Rogers throws a lot of soft junk down and away.

OK we're ready--can we start Game 3 now?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 13, 2006 5:13 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Scutaro's hit was a bad AB?
Not that four good at-bats is appreciably better than three, but going the opposite way, as Scutaro did, was the proper approach.
The A's seem incapable of making adjustments, and it has frustrated me for years.  I don't understand how you take the same approach at-bat after at-bat when it isn't working.  No adjustments whatsoever.  Someone needs to remind Chavez there is a left field as well.  I don't mind the lack of success when you're doing everything you can to be successful, but the stubborn adhearance to one approach is inexcusable from professional hitter, IMO.

by IndianaAsfan on Oct 13, 2006 5:31 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Couldn't agree more, Blez,
and if the Tigers win the ALCS I hope they go on to win the World Series; they deserve it.

The Jimenez whining is perplexing to me. The A's middle-infield, not by their own choosing is Scutaro and Jimenez.: A back-up and his back-up, starting, front and center. Put that out there for 162 games and you will not be in the playoffs, ever.

I feel I have only one legitimate whine and that is what I believe was a very poor selection for the ALCS rotation. People as wise and intelligent as the A's brass are should have seen the importance of getting Haren out there in the first three games over Loaiza and Harden, who--by no fault of their own--were simply not as likely to come up big.

But really, it wouldn't have mattered. The Tigers have simply been better at adjusting to the situation and doing what they need to do to win. Consider the hat tipped. But the white flag not yet waved. Not yet.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 13, 2006 5:10 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Me too, and I think it's the real key
as to why the A's do better in long seasons than they do in short series. You can adjust to a poor first two months and compensate with a stellar last three months and in the balance you can be good enough to win a playoff spot.

You can't take months to figure it out and adjust when you're in a short series.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 13, 2006 5:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

What adjustments?
You've been praising the A's scouting reports.  The Tiger hitters have clearly made good adjustments, but it seems to me the A's just ran into a wall in this game.

by mikeA on Oct 13, 2006 6:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

its called macha
who i think is a very good manager during the regular season. never panics, never makes hasty changes. but my god, look at leyland in this series. how many times did he tinker w/ the defense or the lineup to maximize his team? he tried to win 1 game at a time, inning by inning. macha kept the starters in too long in games 1 and 2, kept kielty on the pine until late today, didn't try to make his guys change their approaches a little at the plate (rogers throws junk, how about stepping up a little in the box, look for more breaking balls, etc.?), rarely bothered sending anybody out (or go himself) to talk to his pitchers during a detroit hot inning PRIOR to them scoring (leyland was masterful at this - it helped calm his guys down, plus mess up the flow of the game a little). don't think it'd change a whole lot, but maybe we'd have a game or two in the end. right now, i can't see us not getting swept.
"welcome to ME, motherf*^*er!" - tim hudson

by guy incognito on Oct 13, 2006 7:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The irony being...
...Harden has posted the best for the A's thus far in this series.  Still, it floored me when they made him today's starter.
"So, whatever, Ozzie." -- Nick Swisher

by FormerHuntsvilleStar on Oct 13, 2006 5:17 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The only flooring...
Was that Harden wasn't the game #1 or #2 starter. We can't say he shouldn't have started at all? Right?

There's also the argument that Blanton should have started somewhere. (We're just looking for something resembling change)

More than just ANtics: http://www.louisgray.com/live/

by louismg on Oct 13, 2006 5:25 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Right...
...but I agree with Nico that Haren should've started one of these first three games...and pitch twice (if necessary) in the series.  So I think they should've stayed with the original plan of Haren pitching Game 3.
"So, whatever, Ozzie." -- Nick Swisher

by FormerHuntsvilleStar on Oct 13, 2006 5:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Regarding the middle infield...
It's OBVIOUS we should have had A-Rod and Soriano there. What was Beane thinking?
More than just ANtics: http://www.louisgray.com/live/

by louismg on Oct 13, 2006 5:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's a tough call--
A-Rod seems a bit prone to unsafe plane issues, but Jimenez seems prone to unsafe car issues.

Ultimately, just because we can't afford another injury, I think you have to play it safe and go with Marco Scutaro and Neifi Perez.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 13, 2006 5:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I just wanted to add
that I love this team.  Mistakes and all.  They are a GREAT bunch of guys with all the heart a fan could ask for.  I don't think I can acuse them of not having heart.  

Their heart just hasn't caught up with their bats yet.  But tomorrow they have a chance to change that.

Also,
I REALLY MISS MARK ELLIS

*Nick Swisher is good. He is home-run-beltin', sideburn-wearin', nonstop-talkin', bear-hug-dispensin', self-proclaimin' good.*

by Swisherfor05ROY on Oct 13, 2006 5:10 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

AMEN!
"This must be heaven," he says.
"No. It's Oakland."

by Kyli on Oct 13, 2006 5:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Oh yeah,
New reports say that a plane with Arod as a passenger skidded off the runway today.  What's with the Yanks and planes?  
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on Oct 13, 2006 5:10 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I'll wait for eamb to post a graphic
before I respond. :-}
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 13, 2006 5:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why are all the really amusing comments
so surely guaranteed to offend the sensitive?  ;)
"You may glory in a team triumphant, but you fall in love with a team in defeat."--The Boys of Summer

by alox on Oct 13, 2006 5:17 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not saying all amusing comments are true,
but there's nothing more offensive to folks than the truth.

by Salvatore on Oct 13, 2006 5:23 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

arod
doesnt like getting bumped off the headlines

by oak1 on Oct 13, 2006 5:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It pains me so much....
It really hurts inside knowing that the season is almost over. I planned on watching baseball Sat AND Sunday. I hope that's still the case.
"Don't you play the flute, Huddy?"

by capper3 on Oct 13, 2006 5:13 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Well said, Blez
We have to remember that the Tigers were the best team in the league for most of the season. They had a bump in the road late in the year, but that better team has re-emerged in the postseason.

The A's just have to avoid the sweep tomorrow. And I'm glad we have Haren on the mound to do it. Hopefully, some of the bats can get it together. All is not lost. Not yet.

My record at A's games this year -- regular season: 13-8 / postseason: 1-1

by peanut gallery on Oct 13, 2006 5:14 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Good recap
They just need to win tomorrow.  This Tiger team is very streaky.  Get the ball to Zito.

by DKNJ on Oct 13, 2006 5:17 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

The good news is we get to watch the A's
at least one more time! Let's hope tomorrows team is better than todays! I really don't think we're done yet. I just don't. Nice write up, Blez!

by A'sfansince1970 on Oct 13, 2006 5:18 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Just Win One Game....
Just win tomorrow. Just for shits and giggles.

And then see what happens,  if by chance, Zito get another start and the A's get another shot at Robertson.

And, perhaps, we all get one more day to see a game in Oakland...then maybe even one more....

But it all starts with one game tomorrow.

Just win one game.

by WannaBeGM on Oct 13, 2006 5:18 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

My gut tells me that Haren
will pitch an excellent game tomorrow, and that it will both please me and infuriate me.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 13, 2006 5:20 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

My gut tells me that
I ate too much at lunch today. I should have stopped with only two appetizers.
More than just ANtics: http://www.louisgray.com/live/

by louismg on Oct 13, 2006 5:27 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

My Gut Says
even if Haren has a good start, the A's aren't the team they were 3 games ago, and the Tigers ARE the team that led the Division all year long, so I think all in all it was a good season, but its ova
"That's minus 30 degrees celcius. I'm not sure what that is in Fahrenheit, but uh." -Rich Harden on his childhood in Calgary

by dtownmbrown on Oct 13, 2006 8:40 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

My gut
hopes you have been right all along with your bellowing about Haren.

by mikeA on Oct 13, 2006 6:08 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

probably
and he'll probably get no offense to support him...sorry, i'm still fuming over the absolutely horrible ABs today. if you're going to get an out, at least make the pitcher work for it...
"welcome to ME, motherf*^*er!" - tim hudson

by guy incognito on Oct 13, 2006 6:59 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

My gut says
please stop growing like a pregnant lady.

by Tyler Bleszinski on Oct 13, 2006 7:17 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

pre-post-mortem
There's a lot to be thankful for, even if we aren't going to make it to be the last of the 30 still standing.

We are back into the elite class of teams now, and we have made it further into October than any Beane team thusfar, even whilst having our team utterly decimated by injuries for whole stretches of the season.  Shucks, tonight was Richie's 10th start of the season and it's the middle of October.  We don't even have Duke right now and Ellis was gone as of a week ago Wednesday.  

No excuses, but it's very tough to do what we came to this point to do without key components, especially against a team so hot and so focused and so well-managed and so worthy as these Tigers.  They are playing exceptionally, and we're playing like we always do in May, but that shouldn't dampen the achievements our boys have accomplished in this most memorable year.

I will leave my sig up until the last hope is extinguished... a lot of you wanted me to change it a million times over the course of the season but I am not that kind of fan and wouldn't know how to be.  I put that up the day we signed Frank Thomas and it stays until we are eliminated.

Remember all the fun, all the thrills we have had this year as you watch tomorrow, and be thankful and show love and gratitude no matter what the outcome.  Never forget that this is the team that does the most with the least, perhaps in all of sports, and that we made it on guts and grit and grind further than the vast majority of MLB this time around.

1972...1973...1974...1989...2006

by emperor nobody on Oct 13, 2006 5:24 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Great Post
The score is _always_ 0-0 until the final out. Each pitch is a new ballgame.

by FanSinceKC on Oct 13, 2006 8:39 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The more I think about it....
the more I think it might be possible to win this series. I know its crazy. But if we can win tomorrow, then its just one more game with Zito on the mound. Then it's back home and who knows what can happen.
"Don't you play the flute, Huddy?"

by capper3 on Oct 13, 2006 5:24 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I'll say it once more,
their strategy is to lose the first 3 and win the next 4 so they can tell their grandchildren about the greatest comeback in baseball history.

by Salvatore on Oct 13, 2006 5:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well....
by that logic I think the Hurt should've hit that homerun on Wed night in the 9th...now that would've been a story.
"Don't you play the flute, Huddy?"

by capper3 on Oct 13, 2006 5:39 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

We can do better!
Trying to outdo the 2004 Red Sox...that's what I wanna see!

by tomoyo on Oct 13, 2006 5:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am sure I am speaking for others here
But I am DESPERATE to use this Game 6 & Game 7 ticket I have in my hand right now!!!!

Let's go guys!!!  Make those Tigers remember who we are that they aren't.  Division Champs!  So let's go out there and ACT LIKE IT tomorrow!!!

Keeping the faith!!!

*Nick Swisher is good. He is home-run-beltin', sideburn-wearin', nonstop-talkin', bear-hug-dispensin', self-proclaimin' good.*

by Swisherfor05ROY on Oct 13, 2006 5:25 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

HELL YEAH
ain't over 'till it's over, mang.

4 game streak starts...now.

Zito - my favorite.

by catfish hunter on Oct 13, 2006 5:25 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

all true
This is over. Which is actually OK with me. I just can't watch these guys play like this anymore.

To date DET have played very well but I can't help but think that the two pitchers' who this team really relied on to come through, failed to do their jobs-Zito and Loza. For me, this series was over after the first 3 innings of game 1. "Fearful In The Zone" reared it's ugly head and Loza's pitiful attempted just finished them off.

I suppose the only good thing about losing in 4 games is I won't need to sit through Zito pitching in G and G ever again. Wear It Barry...you failed. Good Bye. Good Riddance. Take your goofy act down south , or better yet, to NY where they'ii eat you alive.

Offensively, well what can you say. I think we might have been all fooled, or were willing to be fooled, when the A's some how beating Santana. Then A's go on to beat some idiot named Boof and a late 30's Radke with a bum shoulder. All is right with the mighty A's O!!! Guess again.

If it sounds like a duck, walks like a duck, farts like a duck...well then, it's a duck. The statheads on this site love to point out "sample size". Well, the A's, once again this year, sucked. And it's just not SLG % or OBP but its the apparent inability to play simple, little league, baseball. First batter hits a double, no outs, and he gets stranded...time after time after time. Fuck, i absolutley hate that shit. And somewhere Dave Hudgens is drunk as a monkey, throwing darts at a billy beane picture and laughing at this poor offensive display.

Can Haren win tomorrow? Maybe, but I doubt it. Have the A's had what might be a successful year? No.

Nothing less but winning it all should be the A's ultimate expectation. I definitely know it's mine.

Time to reload for '07.    

"The Matt Watson/Chiba Lotte Marines Fan Club"-Through Sept 13th: GMS:61,AVG:.282,OBP:.366,SLG:.429, doubles:11, homers:5, RBI:20

by bigelephant on Oct 13, 2006 5:29 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I'm disturbed that you know
how a duck farts. Other than that, I have no response.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 13, 2006 5:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

AFLAC
"The Matt Watson/Chiba Lotte Marines Fan Club"-Through Sept 13th: GMS:61,AVG:.282,OBP:.366,SLG:.429, doubles:11, homers:5, RBI:20

by bigelephant on Oct 13, 2006 5:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I am not going to argue or anything
But I for one will be sad to not see Zito in Green and Gold next year.

Game 1 was awful.  No doubt.

But calling Zito a failure, I don't agree.  He has been a stellar athlete for us since his first game here.  I appreciate all that he has done, and will miss him a great deal.

But that is just my little humble opinion.

*Nick Swisher is good. He is home-run-beltin', sideburn-wearin', nonstop-talkin', bear-hug-dispensin', self-proclaimin' good.*

by Swisherfor05ROY on Oct 13, 2006 5:36 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Zito
is extraordinarily talented and extraordinarily inconsistent.  I'd miss him a lot more, had he not switched agents right before the trading deadline.
The score is _always_ 0-0 until the final out. Each pitch is a new ballgame.

by FanSinceKC on Oct 13, 2006 8:49 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I do agree about the offense
Man, how many times over the past decade have we watched a runner get to third with no outs and have him not score.  I mean come on, three strike outs in a row with runners on second and third?  That just disgusts me.  

by DMOAS on Oct 13, 2006 5:49 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Haren will win tomorrow
for no other reason to give folks ammo to shoot at Beane. "Why was the rotation set up so the only successful pitcher you had got one lousy start?" Or something along those lines.

Your criticism of Barry is too harsh. He's pitched well for Oakland over his career and next year's staff won't be as good without him. That said he tanked Game 1, something which is completely unacceptable from an "Ace" pitcher.

However, the venom directed towards the offense is probably justified.

Why yes. I am a ray of warm and fuzzy sunshine.

by grover on Oct 13, 2006 5:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

this year
is as good a chance as any for the a's to
win the world series. the league is wide
open without a truly dominant team. next
year who knows: the angels and rangers
are not going to stay pat in the offseason
and the yankees are going to strengthen
their pitching as well.

by oak1 on Oct 13, 2006 5:30 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Winning 4 straight
Is simple for the A's. They've already done it 7 times this season alone, including the last game of the season vs. Anaheim + the three vs. Minnesota.
More than just ANtics: http://www.louisgray.com/live/

by louismg on Oct 13, 2006 5:30 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Nice pick-me-up
thanks, I needed that.

puts on mittens, earmuffs, bullet-proof vest

okay, bring on Game Four.

by AsBrand on Oct 13, 2006 5:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Now I'm all pumped for Game 4.
Let's break some Detroit hearts day by day

by WannaBeGM on Oct 13, 2006 5:30 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

4-0
hear here.

by AsBrand on Oct 13, 2006 5:32 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Biggest A's fan tomorrow
is Rod Marinelli, the Lions head coach.  As long as the Tigers are playing, the focus is off that alleged NFL team.  

by IndianaAsfan on Oct 13, 2006 5:34 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

GAME 4 LINEUP
This is how I'd do it. We need to take some gambles and hope they pay off. Sit Thomas for a game. Give Kielty some at bats. Start Kiger for his defense and maybe he'll surprise everyone offensively. Bunch the guys who are hitting in the lineup so they can put something together.

Kendall C
Kotsay CF
Payton LF
Bradley RF
Kielty DH
Chavez 3B
Swisher 1B
Scutaro SS
Kiger 2B

I'd rather go down trying to find a way to win then throwing out the same lineup. I'd even think of starting Johnson over Swisher for a game. Sit down the quiet bats. At this point, what do we have to lose?

by Dann on Oct 13, 2006 5:40 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Jimenez only shows how value Ellis really is
When Ellis struggled at the plate this year I wonder whether or not we made a huge mistake with that contract.  After watching Jimenez, it just shows you how important Ellis is to this team's defense (as well as a healthy Chavez).

Because of that, yes, I am going to complain about Jimenez.  Just so we're clear, he's not alone in the reason we're 0 and 3.  Nor will I blame him for if/when we lose this series.  But, if he made the plays Ellis would have, we'd have had a very good chance of coming into this game 2-0 and not 0-2.  

I won't blame Jimenez for our losses because nothing is guaranteed and just because Ellis normally makes those plays that he would have, but I like the odds.  But the same easily can be said of our offense showing up too.  But I completely blame him for not being Ellis' clone.  He obviously wasn't watching when Wash gave him the "Clone" sign.  

I'd like Kiger to get second for game 4 though.  He can't do any worse then Jimenez defensively, I seriously doubt Jimenez will tear it up offensively.  So let's give the kid a shot and who knows, because the Tigers won't have a book on him maybe he'll surprise us.

by DMOAS on Oct 13, 2006 5:43 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

in what kind of world ...
... is Harden's start today the sort of thing that bolsters folks' desire to have had him start G1/5 or 2/6?

5-2/3 innings, 3 runs, 5 hits, 5 walks, 105 pitches, only 56 strikes?

I think it can be argued convincingly that he pitched worse than either Zito or Loaiza. This is precisely the sort of start Zito was having mid-season where oaktoon was saying "Cy Young! Cy Young!" while everyone else pointed out how awful Z's peripherals were and that he was getting extremely lucky. (And remember that Kotsay made 2 excellent plays to rob the Tigers of hits off Harden, and there were lots of line drives right at infielders; low BABIP is not a repeatable skill for 99% of pitchers.)

but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 13, 2006 5:44 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I feel today's game vindicated
wanting him in games 2 and 6. He needed a couple innings, no matter when he pitched, to get the nerves/kinks out, and then pitched pretty well. Given another start, I would predict excellence. But since none of the first three games featured Haren, and we went 0-3, it's likely moot.

But with Zito, Harden wobbly, Haren, Loaiza, Zito, Harden awesome, Haren, who knows what might have been...?

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 13, 2006 5:51 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'll buy the overall argument ...
... but "awesome"? You need to deactivate the Cindi Switch on that one.
but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 13, 2006 5:56 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

loyalty will kill you
given his time between starts, i really think harden should have gone in game 1, followed by zito (love him, but he is prone to getting shelled), haren, then loiaza. they knew a week ago that a cold front might hit detroit, hardly the best conditions for a guy making his 10th start of the season.
"welcome to ME, motherf*^*er!" - tim hudson

by guy incognito on Oct 13, 2006 7:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't think by any estimation
he was worse than Loaiza.  Loaiza threw 2/3 of an inning more and gave up an additional 4 runs.  How can that be better than Harden tonight?  Also, Loaiza gave up two leads, something Harden didn't have.  The Tigers only score 1 first inning run if the hit and run is defended properly.  Sure Kotsay saved a couple of runs, but the argument can be made just as easily that Loaiza would have given up balls that couldn't have been caught - there is no right or wrong answer to that type of argument.  Kotsay's defense has been a constant, not an aberration.  The A's count on it.  Oh, and those line drives that were caught?  Most were off the end of the bat or handle - not hit very hard and easy catches.

by IndianaAsfan on Oct 13, 2006 5:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Chavvy makes the play in 4th ...
... and Loaiza gives up 3 fewer runs. Chavvy's defense had been even more reliable than Kotsay's.

I'll grant that it's a bit of specious argument -- but there's no way to argue that Harden was clearly superior to either Loaiza or Zito.

but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 13, 2006 5:58 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

No, No. No. No.
Obviously this was not the start we had hoped for.  He had horrible control for the first two innnings.

However, it is profoundly not a Zito-type start.  When Harden can manage to actually throw the ball over the plate, he is very difficult to hit.  Zito walks as many batters as he does not because he has bad control, but because he has to nibble since his pitches are extremely hittable if left over the plate.  

Why argue for Harden to pitch game 1?  Well, it was certainly plausible, and turned out to be true that he would have control problems, but he has never had those problems in the last two years when healthy.  Further, even with some walks, he can get batters out with his dominant stuff as he in fact did in this very game.

It can only be argued sophistically that he did not pitch better than Zito or Loaiza.

by mikeA on Oct 13, 2006 6:18 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

you wanna talk sophistry?
You speak of Harden's overall qualities as a Platonic pitcher vs Barry's -- which points all are true, to be sure -- without even trying to refute my point that Harden didn't pitch well today. "Can only be argued sophistically," my furry monkey behind! Nice non-argumentative tautology!

Harden pitched like crap today. Yeah, maybe not as crappy as Zito and Loaiza (though I don't recall Z or ELo tossing 55-foot breaking balls), but still crappy.

Over the course of 32 starts in a year (when/if both are healthy) -- shit, yeah, I'll take Harden, too. By any measure except wins and health (and the former being significantly dependent on the latter), Harden is a superior pitcher to Barry. But Harden's health is questionable, and he's quite obviously still in mid-March form (and 1-2 more starts ain't gonna change that).

You're correct in your analysis of why Z walks batters -- but a walk is a walk is a walk. It doesn't really matter "why" a runner's on first. What's more, one could argue that Z "intentionally"/strategically walks batters (or at least tries not to throw hittable pitches) and therefore (a) walks by Barry aren't "bad" per se whereas walks by Harden are (because walks by Harden are a sign he's struggling, where they're just another day at the office for Z; though, again, a walk is a walk is a walk) and (b) Z is more accustomed to/capable of working around his walks than Harden is his.

but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 13, 2006 7:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Except
only one of Harden's five walks scored today.  So your point about Harden not being accustomed to working around his walks is a bit of a stretch.  I don't think Harden threw well today, but I'm still more confident about him throwing than Loaiza.  Loaiza gave up extra base hits (1 home run), while Harden gave up 4 singles and a home run.  Harden's control problems can be corrected, Loaiza's propensity to give up extra base hits may not.  Harden walks the bases loaded and then strikes out Monroe to get out of the inning.  Neither Zito nor Loaiza was capable of doing that in games 1 & 2.  Loaiza did get the dribbler that Chavez didn't get to, I agree, but that is also my point.  Even wild, Harden has the stuff to stop rallies with a strikeout, Loaiza does not.

by IndianaAsfan on Oct 13, 2006 8:17 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

That should say
Loaiza gave up extra base hits (including a home run).  The old fingers just don't type as fast as the brain comes up with jibberish...

by IndianaAsfan on Oct 13, 2006 8:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was responding
to your claim that Harden pitched worse than Zito or Loaiza, which you seemed to just admit in that last post.  My final comment did not include an argument but it was hardly a tautology.  It would actually be fantastic if "Harden pitches great in October" was a tautology.  Just an unsubstantiated claim.  Harden pitched like absolute crap for half of the first inning, and then basically pitched fine.  His final stat-line was better.  He was the only one of the three that did not get hit particularly hard.

Second my point about the difference in their walks is that Harden is better available to prevent his walks from scoring via hits.  Zito had a lot of success working around his walks this year, but he also got a very fortuitous amount of double plays this year while he is not a ground ball pitcher.  I think Harden is better suited at this point to work out of jams.

Further, Zito's success in those situations largely does not include the last two months.  Harden may in in mid-March form, but Zito is in "mid-October after having led or nearly led the league in pitches" form.

Perhaps in this exchange, we are progressing toward actual sound logic.

by mikeA on Oct 14, 2006 9:48 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed. He is still in spring training form
If or when we make it to game seven, do you start Blanton?

by A'sfansince1970 on Oct 13, 2006 5:51 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I want Blanton for Game 6
*Nick Swisher is good. He is home-run-beltin', sideburn-wearin', nonstop-talkin', bear-hug-dispensin', self-proclaimin' good.*

by Swisherfor05ROY on Oct 13, 2006 5:53 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I'll take Saarloos or Kennedy
in Game 6 if it means there's a Game 6. Down 3-0, beggars cannot choosers be!
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 13, 2006 8:01 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes
Harden in Game 7.
*Nick Swisher is good. He is home-run-beltin', sideburn-wearin', nonstop-talkin', bear-hug-dispensin', self-proclaimin' good.*

by Swisherfor05ROY on Oct 13, 2006 6:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lets just...
Get the series back home and let it fly. All we have to do is win two and we come home. As much as I despise the Red Sox, they did it, so can we. If the Royals can kick Detroit's butt so can we.

by billyball1981 on Oct 13, 2006 5:56 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Just One
That is all we ask...just one. And then we will ask yet again... and again... and again...

by since72 on Oct 13, 2006 6:00 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I want Haren to win tomorrow
For no other reason than to give Zito one more start.

At this point, I am not really tripping about the outcome of this series. I don't really care about the World Series. I just want to see Zito get another start and give us all one last good memory of him.

The only thing about this loss that is really bothering me is thinking that I may have already seen Zito's last start and that is making me a little sick to my stomach.

So I say Haren goes out there and does one last good thing for his buddy and mentor, and give him one last shot at the mound in the Green and Gold! Please Danny, do it for Z!!

"This is the best hug in the major leagues, right here!" - Swisher Pics

by BobbyCrosbysGirl on Oct 13, 2006 6:01 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

hear, hear!
I don't like thinking of Z's departure at all, but it'd be particularly galling for game 1 to have been his swan song.
but jesus--rhyming is a pain in the ass! -- Rubin Sierra @('.')@

by monkeyball on Oct 13, 2006 6:05 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well said
Go Danny, lets see Zito back on the mound at least ONE more time for the Green and Gold.
*Nick Swisher is good. He is home-run-beltin', sideburn-wearin', nonstop-talkin', bear-hug-dispensin', self-proclaimin' good.*

by Swisherfor05ROY on Oct 13, 2006 6:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

This makes me sad too.
It'd be nice to be able to give Zito the ball one more time.  I'll really miss Zito when he's gone.  :o(

by beijing on Oct 13, 2006 7:46 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Well said.
I don't understand the Zito bashing.
On Sunday, Minaya ticked off a list of candidates to join the rotation, and for once this season, none of them was Jose Lima.

by rfloh on Oct 13, 2006 10:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Just Win
Because we can, Because we can-can-can-can-CAN!!!

But if not, Detroit played one helluva series to look that good.

Hopefully there's more to look forward to from the A's in 2007.

by Hit4TheCycle on Oct 13, 2006 6:16 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Dan is the Man !
I hope Danny can get the win just to prove they made a mistake moving him to game 4, harden should have pitched outta the bullpen... I am just afraid the excuse if we lose tommorow will be that Danny had too many days rest... either way i think our batters need to stop swinging for the fences and work on getting some hits !!

Danny is the only one who has that BIG Game expieriance we need... he should have started game 2 or 3 i thinks...

Go A's

by ANRZED on Oct 13, 2006 6:24 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I just hope that it's not...
live by the sweep die by the sweep.

by IM4Oakgal on Oct 13, 2006 6:35 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

i love the fact that
the tigers game thread has three fucking comments on it. and one is from rev halofan.

http://www.blessyouboys.com/story/2006/10/13/152627/55#commenttop

by digsthelongball on Oct 13, 2006 6:44 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

really.
naturally the rev probably made some sort of comment....but I ain't gonna look.....renouncing such things for now.
a manager, my kingdom for a manager!

by ak_A on Oct 13, 2006 6:50 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

while it's possible we make this respectable
i think it's highly unlikely. nothing has gone our way this series, be it umpire calls or balls slicing fair/foul, or starting pitching being effective, or much offense. we just got whupped by a better team. and we were on our second string middle of the infield. maybe we can win tomorrow, but our offense has been pretty atrocious, game 2 notwithstanding, so if we can't score, doesn't matter how well haren pitches. horrible ABs today.
and not to slam macha, but leyland made so many adjustments to maximize his team's strengths for a short series, while macha played it like it was a 162 game season. kielty not getting an AB until the 8th inning today, keeping our starters in way after they lost their effectiveness, etc. ken's a good manager, but he totally got outclassed in this series by sticking to his regulars too long. you can't manage the same in the playoffs as you do in the regular season.
injuries killed this team this season (again - if beane doesn't change the training staff, something is seriously f'd up), so to even be in the ALCS is incredible. and losing the way we have has shown our weaknesses. we'll have a little money to play around with in the offseason, so i wonder how billy uses it.
"welcome to ME, motherf*^*er!" - tim hudson

by guy incognito on Oct 13, 2006 6:55 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

that's why I respect
A's fans, Tiger fans, basically fans of any team sans Yankees/Redsox/Whitesox. You guys are smart baseball fans that can give props to another team if that team should perform better. I live in the NY, yankeeloving area, surrounded by tons of obnoxious fans who don't know anything about their opponents, but know that the yankees have won 26 world champions. If you guys think you have it bad with the east coast bias, try living in NY and hating the yankees and mets. The metfans are not TOO bad right now, but they are getting there.
Anyway, last week after Rogers pitched a great game of shut out baseball against the yankees, a yankee fan said to me, "dammit the yankees piss me off so much! they lose agaisnt the worst teams! The Tigers are a bad team!" So then I replied, "Oh really? How are they bad when they've managed to win only two games less than your beloved yankees? and when the yankees lost to the angels last year, guess what, the angels were a better team too. How are they a bad team?" and he just said, "I dunno, they suck. They haven't been in the post season for years. They are not supposed to win." Idiot. After telling him that the tigers had the best pitching in the majors this year and that bonderman was going to crush jaret wright the next day, he really didn't have much to say. I'm not even a tiger fan, but I just can't take ignorant YF.
The point is if the A's were to get eliminated tomorrow, aren't you glad it's not to the yankees and that it's to a team that truly worked their asses off to get to where they are now? I know thats how I felt when we lost to you guys in that horrifying sweep last week. As much as it pained me to see my team struggle for hits, I realized that if we were going to get eliminated, at least it was to a great A's team who I respect very much. Our teams are about pitching, defense, and being small market, and I've always wanted rooted for the A's when it didn't affect the Twins.
You guys aren't out of it yet. It ain't over till it's over. Dan Haren is nasty and you guys won't get swept tomorrow. I know that for sure. Frank's bat will come alive and I'll still be pulling for the A's to win, especially to prove ESPN wrong and to shut FOX up. Good luck tomorrow and remember, no matter what happens, the yankees choaked big time this year. And that should bring a smile to anyone's face.

Sorry about the long post.

and p.s.
when I said that the angels were a better team, I mean just agaisnt the yankees, and I don't like the angels either. Bartolo over Santana for CY. please.

by Twinsfan57 on Oct 13, 2006 6:58 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I like friendly posts by
other teams fans. :-)  Thanks for the good wishes and you are right. We hate losing but it makes it a little easier that it's not to the NYY or Redsox Or Angels.

Detroit fans stuck with that team through all of those terrible seasons. Ya gotta give them props for that. As for your Twinkies...similar payroll to ours and I think both of our teams deserve some props for getting as far as they have with good GMs and super brainpower instead of super wallets. Good luck next yeat !

by IM4Oakgal on Oct 13, 2006 7:19 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

thank you.
That was really nice, and God, that encounter with the Yankees fan sounds like um fun. I hope you are right about Haren.

I live in Boston and I'm an A's fan; my best friend here is a Rangers fan and when one of our teams is out of the running we'll root for the other's. There are some good East Coast sports fans who really love the game and know their stuff, but a lot of them, like the lug nuts we ran into watching the game at a bar tonight, are total lamewads.

The A's will be playing the Mets at Shea Stadium next year and we're planning to take a group of A's fans down from Boston. If you'd like to be an honorary A's fan with us for a day you should join us!

What are you, the AN bullpen fluffer? ~ salb918

by poetwee on Oct 13, 2006 7:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thank you
It was really nice reading that. Props.

by takebart on Oct 13, 2006 7:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Thank you, TwinsFan..
that just made me feel much better. Seriously, thanks.
"Don't you play the flute, Huddy?"

by capper3 on Oct 13, 2006 8:28 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think what's important to remember is...
...win or lose, all ESPN will be talking about is how badly the Yankees choked this year. Thanks for the comment.

by Dann on Oct 13, 2006 8:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Twins
Are always a driven team, with lots of hard-working, energetic players.  NONE of the A's wins were easy last week, none were decided til the last inning.  Part of the A's letdown this week results, in some part, from having (had to get past the fact that they had just) defeated such a fine team.
The score is _always_ 0-0 until the final out. Each pitch is a new ballgame.

by FanSinceKC on Oct 13, 2006 9:08 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Great Post
thanks for your heartfelt comments!  They are greatly appreciated by this A's fan.

And props to your team this year.  I feared them most when we drew their card in the playoffs.  It could have easily gone a different way in the ALDS.

And I agree with your comment about Danny Haren, he will NOT go down today.  We will win.

*Nick Swisher is good. He is home-run-beltin', sideburn-wearin', nonstop-talkin', bear-hug-dispensin', self-proclaimin' good.*

by Swisherfor05ROY on Oct 14, 2006 10:31 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The series was lost in Game 2
when Macha left Loaiza in to pitch to Gomez. I'm generally a Macha supporter, but I just cannot understand why he didn't make a move. I was so sure he would be bounding out of the dugout as soon as a runner got to second base. You've got to manage that game to give yourself a chance to win. He didn't, and the A's suddenly faced a four-run deficit in a game where they were really swinging the bats well. What's more, they had a day off upcoming so Game 2 was the time to run out all of our bullpen studs and keep the contest close.

by Peter in Montreal on Oct 13, 2006 7:03 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Macha
seems to have forgotten he was in the post-season, as many previously have pointed out.  His "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" thinking just doesn't cut it at this time of the year.
The score is _always_ 0-0 until the final out. Each pitch is a new ballgame.

by FanSinceKC on Oct 13, 2006 9:16 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

But FanSinceKC...
What about the fact that Leyland's justification for (incorrectly, IMO) pitching Nate Robertson in Games 1 and 5 was that "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"?

Why is it stupid when Macha goes by this credo, yet brilliant when Leyland goes by it?

Answer: Because Leyland's players have performed better than Macha's players, thus making Leyland's bad moves look as good as his good moves and making Macha's good moves look as bad as his bad moves.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 13, 2006 9:39 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Leyland
was thinking strategically, about game 7 (Kenny in Coliseum when it would really count).  Macha was thinking tactically, about inning 7 (of game 2) as if it were a month ago.  One is pro-active, one is reactive.
The score is _always_ 0-0 until the final out. Each pitch is a new ballgame.

by FanSinceKC on Oct 13, 2006 10:00 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm confused
So who should Leyland have had start Game 1? His choices were Robertson or Verlander. Verlander could have gone on a normal 4 days rest, but that would have pushed Robertson to Game 2 on 7 days rest. So unless Leyland wanted to bench robertson for a week and a half he was committed to giving Robertson 2 starts this series. Considering Leyland's veteran preferrence it makes sense that he'd want to set his rotation so Rogers would be making a Game 7 start.
Why yes. I am a ray of warm and fuzzy sunshine.

by grover on Oct 13, 2006 10:09 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Tigers could have gone
Verlander, Rogers, Bonderman, Robertson, Verlander, Rogers, Bonderman.

Playing it as he did, had Robertson gotten shelled twice (and frankly he should have gotten shelled in Game 1), and had Haren pitched a gem to win Game 3 (though now it looks like it would have to have been 1-0 in 10 innings!), Leyland might be looking at a 3-2 deficit going back to Oakland.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 13, 2006 10:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Getting shelled
Having a 5 run lead takes some of the pressure off a guy!

I agree Leyland could have gone with Verlander in Game 1, but if I'm correct in thinking that he preferred the idea of Kenny Rogers pitching Game 7 than he had to hold the Gambler until Game 3. If that theory is true, than Robertson was going to get scheduled for two starts because Bonderman knocked off the Yankees on the 7th.

Why yes. I am a ray of warm and fuzzy sunshine.

by grover on Oct 13, 2006 10:31 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Rotations
Leyland's was ready.  The A's changed theirs, giving Rich 12 days off between starts.
The score is _always_ 0-0 until the final out. Each pitch is a new ballgame.

by FanSinceKC on Oct 13, 2006 10:27 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I think the 3 months between starts
was a bigger factor for Harden.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 13, 2006 10:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I must confess
that tonight pissed me off.  The first two games, I thought we got beat by a better team (right now) and I wasn't that upset. Disappointed, yes. Mad, no.
But after two days off to regroup, study game plans (?!) and refocus . . . we got 2-hit.  We got no-hit, basically.  An infield hit and a flare into right.
I think that's inexcusable -- I tip my cap to Kenny Rogers, but 2 hits??!!  We're supposed to be one of the 4 best teams in baseball -- this is the ALCS (!) -- 2 hits is pitiful.
I'm not angry at anyone in particular -- it's a team thing, for sure -- but I thought tonight showed a complete and total lack of effort. We laid down.  Plain and simple, we laid down.
I think it's games like this that Macha gets "exposed" a bit.  Did anyone see an adjustment the entire game??  Did one guy creep up in the box, shorten a swing, ANYTHING? It was 27 up, 27 down. (Basically.)
ok, I'm done -- but I thought the team embarassed themselves somewhat tonight, and I don't feel that way often.
VacaAsFan

by Vacafan on Oct 13, 2006 7:25 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Did you see Swish's last at bat vs. Rogers?
He basically took the first three pitches (all balls) all the way. Never raised his bat. I thought it was the oddest thing. Swish was at least trying to change his approach. (He eventually worked a walk).
Maple Walnut

by Ice Cream on Oct 13, 2006 9:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Same
occurred to me.
The score is _always_ 0-0 until the final out. Each pitch is a new ballgame.

by FanSinceKC on Oct 13, 2006 9:17 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

it was quite a good at bat
and interestingly, Rogers couldn't throw a strike.

by OaklandSi on Oct 13, 2006 10:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not giving up yet.
Really, two things have surprised me about this series:
  1.  I didn't think the absence of Mark Ellis' glove would hurt us this much.  It definitely has, and that's not a knock on Jimenez.  I just don't think I appreciated how many extra outs a superior second baseman can get you.
  2.  I didn't think the Tigers would hit this well.  They are taking pitches when they need to, and attacking them in all other cases.
My only real disappointment today is that the A's seemed to swing at a lot of Rogers' pitches.  I don't think they tried hard enough to make him throw strikes.

As far as the A's performance in this series goes, they've spent the entire year being a team either red-hot or stone-cold--probably because of the spare parts approach Oakland necessarily adopts to building its team.  Unfortunately, they've gone stone cold at the worst possible time.  I have to remind myself, though, that if any team can suddenly rip off four wins in a row, it's probably the Oakland A's.  So I'll keep watching until the final out nestles itself into someone's glove.

"Next thing you know, they'll have me taking an overdose of pills."--Milton Bradley

by jeepers on Oct 13, 2006 7:52 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Let's face the truth...
The 1st and 2nd game p-ed me off because the A's blew so many chances.  Game 3?  Well, let's face it.  The Tigers are simply better.  You have to admire the blue and white, though I'm not happy about that, but I'm okay with it.

I've loved the A's ever since I new anything about baseball, but I have also learned that sometimes you simply have to tip your cap and admit the truth.

Oh, I know the A's will keep on fighting - and I still harbor the slimist of hopes of the impossible four game win streak comeback, but I'm not foolish either.  These Tigers are GOOD and it is the longest of long shots to come back.

Frankly, if it can't be the A's taking the crown, I would feel pretty good about the felines from Detroit hauling up the flag.

by Cy Norris 1980 on Oct 13, 2006 8:04 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Strange
how the A's had better pitching today than in games 1 and 2, but how the Tigers simply outplayed us.  I don't think we were outplayed in the earlier games so much as we underplayed (and undermanaged).  Today we didn't get the RISP to fail to knock in.
The score is _always_ 0-0 until the final out. Each pitch is a new ballgame.

by FanSinceKC on Oct 13, 2006 9:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Truth Hurts
What makes this so hard to swallow is that we're having to come to grips with "cold hard truths" we knew were true, but have denied and ignored over the course of a successful season:

Chavey has a golden glove, but doesn't have the heart of a champion.

Swish's energy is great over 162 games, but unfocused and immature when the pressure is on.

Thomas was a god-send, but combine the pressure of the post season to the pressure of being the only guy who can consistently drive in runs, it's more than any mere mortal can shoulder.  His need to prove everybody in baseball wrong, that they made a mistake passing on him, is 180° opposite of what you nave to do on the big stage . . . just relax and enjoy the spotlight.

Zito thinks too much in big games, and really doesn't trust his stuff enough to throw strikes when he needs to throw strikes.

Scooter isn't super human . . . he's actually a .260 hitter with an occasionaly flair for the dramatic.

Macha is a Bobby Cox clone . . . his calm, cool, everything is okay, stay-the-course-no-matter-what demeanor keeps a team even-keeled through 162 games, but leaves them flat in the playoffs.

Our offensive approach is unimaginative and unproductive . . . no way to jump start an inning, no effort to get a pitcher off balance, no way to put pressure on the pitcher or the defense.  We more defensive on offense than most teams are on defense.

It's hard to watch your heroes show their human, fallible side.  But that's what we're seeing.  And it's heart-breaking to watch.  We know they're better than this . . . but we also know that we're seeing the truth, the blemishes, the weaknesses exposed.  That little voice inside keeps saying, "you're not really surprised, are you?"

And truth be told, I'm not.  Damn.  I wish I were.  

by Papago on Oct 13, 2006 8:06 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I'll buy a lot of that.
a manager, my kingdom for a manager!

by ak_A on Oct 13, 2006 8:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

These are not truths
They are opinions. There is a difference.
"This is the best hug in the major leagues, right here!" - Swisher Pics

by BobbyCrosbysGirl on Oct 13, 2006 8:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Ow, ow, ouch, ow, ow
because too true.
The score is _always_ 0-0 until the final out. Each pitch is a new ballgame.

by FanSinceKC on Oct 13, 2006 9:27 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I suppose you want "small ball"
The Tigers outplayed us on defense, outpitched us, and outmanaged us. Small Ball would have made no difference.
On Sunday, Minaya ticked off a list of candidates to join the rotation, and for once this season, none of them was Jose Lima.

by rfloh on Oct 13, 2006 10:37 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Not small ball at all
How bout some frickin moneyball?  Work the count, get on base, put some pressure on the pitcher and the defense, make 'em feel like a misplay here or there will turn the series, hit and run if you have a man on first and have hit into 4 DP's, put Kielty and his .300 average up against a lefty and make them pitch to him, moving up in the box and daring Rogers to throw a fast ball.  The choice isn't between small ball and big ball, it's between passive and confident . . . between waiting for things to happen and trying to make things happen . . . And geez, when I wrote the thing about Chavey I didn't in a million years think he'd prove me right by admitting defeat in front of everyone.  Could you ever imagine Ricky or Carney or Miggy doing that?????  

by Papago on Oct 13, 2006 11:32 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I don't care what the players say
I judge them by what they do.

Yes, I blame Chavez for playing awful defense. I blame Jimenez. I blame Macha for being Macha.

On Sunday, Minaya ticked off a list of candidates to join the rotation, and for once this season, none of them was Jose Lima.

by rfloh on Oct 14, 2006 12:20 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Anyone else hear
Byrnesy saying that he would have started Haren 3rd and harden 4th. Seems of irresponsible of him to say that with the benefit of hindsight, if he has any respect for the Braintrust. But that's par for the course for commentators, I spose.

by mhoffman on Oct 13, 2006 8:13 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Actually
He said that before the game too.
"This is the best hug in the major leagues, right here!" - Swisher Pics

by BobbyCrosbysGirl on Oct 13, 2006 8:21 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

byrnes called
that on the FOX pregame show.  he said it twice.  rogers vs. a guy who "gave it up in the instructional league"  check the tape

by KCB on Oct 13, 2006 8:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

C'mon
it is looking bad but it's not over. Didn't the Redsox teach us that? I am kinda shocked at Detroit taking the first 3, and surprised at how lifeless the A's have appeared in this series. But  that's how the Red Sox were in 04 against the Yankees. THat is until game 4.

by IM4Oakgal on Oct 13, 2006 8:14 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

now this bugs me...

From ESPN.com:

"We're running into a better team and they're knocking down everybody in their path," A's third baseman Eric Chavez said. "It's not frustrating, they're better than we are."

wtf?  I mean, he's probably right.  And, when you've lost, it's good to salute your opponents.  But why, oh why, would you say BEFORE THE SERIES IS OVER?  Try to have some fight, Eric.  

Seems like they're quitting.

by brooklyn as fan on Oct 13, 2006 8:22 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Would you rather he say
"They Suck! We should be winning these games, therefore we suck more than they do! So we suck pretty bad I guess! But we will get them tomorrow!"

Chavey is honest. This is soemthing we all know about him. It is a quality that I personally admire in him and one of the reasons I adore the guy. He is not a Jeter who only talks in sound bites! He is honest and human. He can see the team's flaws and he is not affraid to discuss it.

He is simply giving credit where credit is due. To a team that is running over everyone in their path! Plain and simple!

"This is the best hug in the major leagues, right here!" - Swisher Pics

by BobbyCrosbysGirl on Oct 13, 2006 8:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

no, actually

it sends a terrible message to his teammates.  I'm not saying he should beat his chest and proclaim the superiority of the A's.  That would look awfully silly right now.  I'm not saying he should lie; but he should have some fight in him, some desire to get out there and show that the A's belong in the ALCS.  

Why concede the series before it's over?  I mean, it probably is over, for all intents and purposes, but why give up publicly while you still have a some chance (2004 Sox, anyone)?  With that attitude, might as well not play tomorrow.

He should have saved the concession speech for after the series.

by brooklyn as fan on Oct 13, 2006 9:44 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I didn't hear
We are done, or This thing is over, or we aren't even trying any more.

Someone probably asked him if he found this loss frustrating. Then he responded with, "We are not frustrated, they are better than us." (he probably went on to explain himself, but they didn't print that part, now did they!) Why should they feel frustrated when facing a team that was leading the league ALL SEASON LONG!! April, everyone was saying, Watch out for the Tigers!! I don't think they should be frustrated when losing to this team. The Tigers are good! And they have been playing better than the A's, end of story!

"This is the best hug in the major leagues, right here!" - Swisher Pics

by BobbyCrosbysGirl on Oct 13, 2006 10:06 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why are you so compelled
to defend such lame remarks? To create a context for them. To pretend that they're the right thing to say.

It's generous of you. It really is. But what Chavez said is in line with so many other mindless and idiotic things he's said in the past.

by RLangford on Oct 13, 2006 10:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Why are you so compelled to find such
remarks lame?
On Sunday, Minaya ticked off a list of candidates to join the rotation, and for once this season, none of them was Jose Lima.

by rfloh on Oct 13, 2006 10:39 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Leaders
simply don't make remarks like these while their team is still in contention.
The score is _always_ 0-0 until the final out. Each pitch is a new ballgame.

by FanSinceKC on Oct 13, 2006 10:46 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Leaders like His Jeteriness?
On Sunday, Minaya ticked off a list of candidates to join the rotation, and for once this season, none of them was Jose Lima.

by rfloh on Oct 14, 2006 12:17 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

he didn't say

"playing better than us."  He said "better than us."  Now, is that what you want to hear from a teammate before a game?  "Well guys, the other team is better than us, so don't be frustrated when we lose."  Way to get fired up for tomorrow.  

Of course the Tigers are a good team, but over the course of the season, they only won 2 games more than the A's.  If Z and Loaiza hadn't thrown such terrible games, this series might be 1-2 or even 2-1.  Look, I love Eric, but all I'm saying is, don't give up until it's really over (see '04 Sox after getting whupped up on for 19 runs in game 3).  Fight for now, save the "they're a better team" speech for later.

As for your speculation concerning what Eric might have said and what reporters might have opted not to write, I find it a fascinating conjecture, but not a particularly persuasive mode of argumentation.  His comments might have been out of context?  Well, you certainly proved me wrong, didn't you.

Oh, and your guy?  I think I saw him walking around the mall with some other chick.

by brooklyn as fan on Oct 13, 2006 10:26 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Chavez
In the whole awful history of Chavez concessionary quotes, this is clearly the worst ever.

It is everything that's horrible in him as a leader. This guy was born to surrender. He has been doing it since 2000 when he foolishly conceded the division to Seattle--a division we eventually won.

But it's never ended. It wasn't youthful follishness, it turns out. It was who he is. It's who he is as the leader of the team in this his 8th year.

It's mind-boggling for him to say that. For him to say it's not fucking frustrating, that they're better than we are.

Anyone--and I see someone already has--who's defending this is just lying to themselves about Chavvy. Just making excuses for the shit he mindlessly and cluelessy says.

Honestly, that's one of the worst quotes I've ever seen in the face of defeat.

by RLangford on Oct 13, 2006 8:45 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The "Face of the A's"
according to Robert B. this afternoon.  This needs to change, obviously.  Chavez is undoubtedly a Gold Glove, many times over.  He can be a great hitter.  He has been injured a lot this year, to be certain.  But just be quiet, Eric.  Okay, you're paid a lot.  That hardly makes you a leader.
The score is _always_ 0-0 until the final out. Each pitch is a new ballgame.

by FanSinceKC on Oct 13, 2006 9:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You are correct, that's NOT
what makes Chavy a leader. What makes Chavy a leader is that his teammates respect him, admire him, look up to him, and see him as a leader.

The fans don't get to decide this, folks.

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 13, 2006 9:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

But Do The Players See Him as a Leader?
I'm just asking? I don't know the answer to this.

I think they probably like him personally and respect his defense and his talent -- but I've never heard an A's player talk about Chavvy the way they talk abut Frank Thomas or Kendall or Kotsay.

But I 100% agree that all the fan talk about what makes a leader is silly. Chavvy doesn't have to win over the fans to be a leader.

by Eck on Oct 13, 2006 9:46 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

If they continue
to see him as a leader, they're not going very far.  
The score is _always_ 0-0 until the final out. Each pitch is a new ballgame.

by FanSinceKC on Oct 13, 2006 9:49 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Over-react much?
Is there anything in that quote that isn't true? The A's are getting their ass kicked and tonight they got dominated by Kenny Rogers. The ra-ra bullshit isn't going to work in the face of those facts. He's not saying the A's are conceding the series, he's saying they're getting beat in every facet of the game.

Which they are. I'd rather hear the truth than have someone try to blow sunshine up my ass.

Why yes. I am a ray of warm and fuzzy sunshine.

by grover on Oct 13, 2006 10:21 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're so full of shit
How's that for overreaction.

It's not a choice between ra-ra bullshit and the bullshit that Chavez chose instead. Nobody's asking him to say that we have them where we want them, or that we just need a few to drop in. He could choose not to say anything, or maybe to say,

"It's frustrating as hell. We're better than this."

See, was that so hard. Nothing ra-ra. Nothing bullshit.

And really, man, you should never ever ever in the history of your life on this site accuse anyone of overreacting:

You spent the whole middle of the season calling for the team to be gutted.

by RLangford on Oct 13, 2006 10:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You're absolutely right

a million things he could have said that would acknowledge the truth of the situation ("we've been getting our asses kicked"), while still showing some fight ("we're going to play hard tomorrow").  No one's asking for bullshit, just some determination, right?  It's the fucking playoffs, who knows when you'll be back?  

What else are you going to do, just quit?  

Oh, wait...

by brooklyn as fan on Oct 13, 2006 10:39 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

What's the Captain His Jeteriness
doing now? Playing golf?
On Sunday, Minaya ticked off a list of candidates to join the rotation, and for once this season, none of them was Jose Lima.

by rfloh on Oct 13, 2006 10:41 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Actually, if you had paid attention
I spent the middle of the season saying the A's needed to improve. And I said I'd be willing to gut the team if it would make them better. What kind of fan are you that doesn't want to see his team get better?

Now, back to the quote that is causing an uproar.

How is it "leadership" if Chavez doesn't answer the question, if he passes the buck to another teammate? Because I pretty much guarantee you the reporter wasn't going to stop asking their question until they got an answer.

Are the A's better than they've shown these last three games? Absolutely. Is being "frustrated" going to help them win Game 4? Doubtful. As a matter of fact, frustration will probably make them play tight, make them press, two things which are NOT condusive to winning. The Tigers are up 3-0, which is a pretty good indication of who the better team is. But if the A's want to win Game 4 and stay in Detroit another day they can't focus on that. They have to focus on playing to the best of their abilities, and if they do that then maybe we can see who really has the better team.

Why yes. I am a ray of warm and fuzzy sunshine.

by grover on Oct 13, 2006 10:49 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I was paying attention, grover--
You basically said that if Beane didn't make any trade deadline deals, the A's had no chance to win the division or advance in the playoffs, both of which they did.

I'm kind of surprised you bring up your midseason comments because they didn't exactly prove to be portentious. Unless you feel you are destined to be right "unless the A's win the World Series," in which case you will be on solid ground 95% of the time because most teams don't win the World Series.

So here's my prediction for 2007: Every single major league team needs to "gut" its team because it won't win the World Series. Bet I'm right 29 times over!

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 13, 2006 11:00 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I didn't bring up my midseason comments
Someone else did.

And I didn't think the A's were going to make it because I was convinced that there was no way that Stoneman was going to pass up the chance to dip into his ridiculously loaded farm system and get the help the Angels needed. I figured it was safe to assume that a team like the Angels would pursue a deal that would be in their best interests.

I was wrong. And the A's benefitted from Stoneman's... I don't know, generosity.

Now, I've never been an advocate of the "WS or Bust" theory of management. That's a game only the very rich franchises can afford to play and the A's don't qualify. I fully support the year-in, year-out quality product concept that the A's have followed since the late '90s. Put another way, I prefer this pattern to that of the Marlins. So your last couple statements are looking for a target other than me.

What I have said, and I thought I made this clear to you a couple days ago, is that Beane (in essence) called his shot this year with his roster moves. Holding on to Payton, Kennedy and Zito while siging Thomas to a 1 year deal all signalled a major post-season push. The weakness of the farm system meant that the pay-off had to be big to justify the talent drop-off in 2007. Beane set the goal to be a WS title, not me. That means if the A's fall short of that goal the season is a failure.

I say "failure" without attaching any stigma to the term. If you set a goal and you don't achieve it then you have failed. OK, what's next? In baseball that means looking forward to the next season. What are your goals going to be and what needs to happen to the roster to achieve those goals?

But that's a question for later. Right now I'm more interested in Game 4.

Why yes. I am a ray of warm and fuzzy sunshine.

by grover on Oct 13, 2006 11:29 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

For the record, grover,
I've certainly been wrong my fair share of times. If you looked to me for wisdom, you'd think Dan Johnson had outperformed Nick Swisher this year. Not so much.

I just thought you were a bit relentless, at the time, in your certainty that the A's couldn't go anywhere with the current group. It was the repetitiveness and intensity that caught my attention.

But you and I are basically on the same page: We'd really like the A's to win Game 4!

I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 14, 2006 9:28 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

A bit relentless?
That's an understatement. I think I qualified for "spectacularly wrong" on this topic. I'm not quite at the "Dewey Wins" level but a miraculous comeback and WS title would put me real close.

And I'll be honest with you, I believe that if you played the season a 100 times over from late-July on the A's would fall short of the play-offs at least 90% of the time. I had a list of things that I thought needed to happen before the current roster could get to the postseason and almost every single item happened!

I mean Holy Frak, where did Loaiza's August come from?!

Why yes. I am a ray of warm and fuzzy sunshine.

by grover on Oct 14, 2006 11:16 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

portentious
yet another word that makes me lavish near-hysterical praise on a post, no matter the remainder of its content.

Add this to "jeremiad" and "project/object" as terms that will make me go totally sycophantic on an AN contributor, even to the point of washing their feet.

1972...1973...1974...1989...2006

by emperor nobody on Oct 14, 2006 12:48 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Gee whiz
Congratulations on coming up with the novel fan concept of wanting the team to improve. Everybody wants that. It's just that the way you wanted them to improve was to cash in this season. And, see, that makes you wrong.

Chavez could have said ten different things. He said about the worst thing he possibly could. It's in keeping with his long line of utterly honest concessions. There have been so many over the years. The guy is worthy of a case study.

by RLangford on Oct 13, 2006 11:08 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I already said I was proven wrong
But that has nothing to do with the Chavez quote. You are reading a concession from him that was never actually made. If anything you are arguing that his comments were made in the present tense and it would have been better if he had used past tense. Which is a really weak fucking arguement. The A's are going to have to pull off a near miracle to win this series. Chavez acknowledged that, he didn't say the A's were going to throw in the towel.
Why yes. I am a ray of warm and fuzzy sunshine.

by grover on Oct 13, 2006 11:34 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

By the way
If you're going to use my midseason no-playoff-call against me, have the integrity to acknowledge that I also posted a diary that was a counter-arguement to my original post. I did not spend all of July arguing that the A's needed to be gutted.

Or you can stick with the over-reaction and exaggeration.

Why yes. I am a ray of warm and fuzzy sunshine.

by grover on Oct 14, 2006 12:00 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Okay
Why don't you just tell the rest of the A's not to bother taking the field tomorrow?
The score is _always_ 0-0 until the final out. Each pitch is a new ballgame.

by FanSinceKC on Oct 13, 2006 10:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Because if they don't take the field
they won't have the chance to play better and maybe win the game. Today is over. Tomorrow is another chance.
Why yes. I am a ray of warm and fuzzy sunshine.

by grover on Oct 13, 2006 11:37 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

It's Smart
No reason to give them bulletin board material. We better hope they get some complacence. That's our best chance.

by Dann on Oct 13, 2006 8:49 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Really?
What message does it send to his teammates?

by Eck on Oct 13, 2006 8:53 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

His Teammates
...aren't sitting around parsing his quotes. Fans are. Hopefully they have more important things to do.

by Dann on Oct 13, 2006 9:45 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You Think ...
... his teammates won't hear this one?

Or that they didn't hear him say they were the least talented he'd played with? How do you think Milton Bradley felt about that? Do you think he's got more respect for Chavvy now?

Part of leadership is pumping up your teammates and building confidence. It's trying to inspire your guys to play harder. It's saying you trust them.

This is the opposite. It's saying, it's okay if we lose because they are the better team.

Now I believe the Tigers are the better team -- but I'm just a fan and my self confidence won't matter much tomorrow at game time.

The better team doesn't always win in baseball, but assuming you'll lose assures it.

by Eck on Oct 13, 2006 9:52 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, that quote too
of course was awful.

The first person I thought of was Bradley, but I thought of others too. Why would anyone want to hear how they're part of the least talented team.

And it was frankly just stupid. This isn't the least talented team by far, the way Chavez--again stupidly and mindlessly--characterized it. This team is clearly more talented than the team in '00. And may well be more talented that the 2002 and 2003 A's teams.

Chavez reminds me of something I heard Larry Bird say once. Bird was told that some players on the Houston Rockets were calling themselves the underdogs, saying they were just happy to be in the NBA championship. Bird immediately told the reporter that if that's the way they were thinking they were already beat.

Leadership isn't some bullshit attribute that fans invent. It matters. If it didn't we wouldn't believe in the fiery speeches we have heard at one time or another in our lives, wouldn't believe in their power to move and inspire us.

But words do have that power, especially from those called upon to lead. And unfortunately, words like Chavez's have the opposite power, as well.

by RLangford on Oct 13, 2006 10:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The Bird Quote Explains it Exactly
Chavvy's quote is the same as saying "We're just happy to finally make it to the ALCS. Our season has been great."

But the second part of his actual quote may have been worse. From espn.com:

"We've run into a better team," Oakland third baseman Eric Chavez said. "And there's really nothing you can do. " ...

"If they play to their potential and play perfect baseball and if we play to our potential and play perfect baseball, it's still going to be a challenge for us," Chavez said. "That's just the way it is right now."

Essentially he said, "We can't win."  And he made it okay for others to say it too:

"We're out there doing everything we can," Swisher said. "It just hasn't worked out."

And even worse was Bradley responding to reporters bringing up the Red Sox comeback:

"We're not the Red Sox," outfielder Milton Bradley said. "We don't exactly have David Ortiz."

Do you think he would have said that if Chavvy hadn't been leading the way? Bradley essentailly said," yeah it's been done, but we're not good enough to do it.""

by Eck on Oct 13, 2006 10:44 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Great Point
Chavez's "leadership" shows in Bradley's remark.  

What about that weird remark during the non-clinching weekend against the Angels in Oakland?  Chavvy said it would be better to clinch when we were in LA the last weekend of the season, in order to gain some kind of retribution for having been eliminated at home by them the last two years.  Yeah, real cool idea.

The score is _always_ 0-0 until the final out. Each pitch is a new ballgame.

by FanSinceKC on Oct 13, 2006 10:54 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

C'mon
Let's be a bit more realistic here. Let's recall what Ortiz did in the 2004 postseason.

Div Series: 545/688/1000 in 11 AB
Cham Series: 387/457/742 in 31 AB (11 RBI)

The A's don't have anyone that hot right now! Maybe if someone got that hot the A's would have a shot at pulling this thing out, but that seems to be a lot to ask for.

Why yes. I am a ray of warm and fuzzy sunshine.

by grover on Oct 13, 2006 11:04 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Only Chavez didn't say crap about
"being happy to be here."

The Tigers HAVE been the better team over the last three games and the record reflects this. The A's have to win 4 straight to advance to the WS and they aren't playing like a team capable of such a streak. What Boston did borders on a baseball miracle, we shouldn't be expecting another historic collapse. More improtantly the A's shouldn't even be thinking about winning four straight, they need to think about winning Game 4. And if they can manage that than they can think about winning Game 5.

Why yes. I am a ray of warm and fuzzy sunshine.

by grover on Oct 13, 2006 10:57 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I Agree
  • The Tigers Have Been the Better Team
  • It's Extremely Unlikely Our A's got to the World Series
Still ... what bothers me, and so many other folks at AN, is that instead of saying "They outplayed us but we'll find a way to get back in this thing," or "We have to play better to win," or "I trust my teammates to fight uuntil the end,"  ... he pretty much said "You got me. No matter what we do, we can't win."  

Nobody expects a miracle, but we want to have faith that it's possible. Chavvy essentially said, "sorry, it's not."

by Eck on Oct 13, 2006 11:07 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

"Pretty much" "essentially"
Sorry, but I'm more about taking his actual comments at face value. I got to watch Game 3. What he said is what I saw. There is nothing Chavez or anyone else could say that would make me feel better about today's game or the A's chances come tomorrow.

The only thing left to do is play well in Game 4.

Why yes. I am a ray of warm and fuzzy sunshine.

by grover on Oct 13, 2006 11:43 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Okay. Here's What He Actually Said:
  • "We've run into a better team," Oakland third baseman Eric Chavez said. "AND THERE IS REALLY NOTHING YOU CAN DO"
  • "If they play to their potential and play perfect baseball and if we play to our potential and play perfect baseball, it's still going to be a challenge for us," Chavez said.
I agree with you that both statements are probably true. And I agree that fans read way too much into the players' statements.

But, c'mon! He said there's nothing he could do. He's given up!

Of course, this may mean Chavvy finally plays up to his potential because there he has now put zero pressure on himself ...

by Eck on Oct 14, 2006 7:50 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The problematic line
"And there is really nothing you can do."

I don't think anyone is going to argue with the accuracy of the rest of his statement. The Tigers have been the better team after three games and the A's are behind the ol' eight ball.

"And there is really nothing you can do."

Definitely not a rallying cry, is it? But I don't see it as a concession either. If the Tigers continue to be the better team it's likely they are going to win this series. The A's didn't beat themselves yesterday, they were simply shutdown by Rogers. I don't think there was a lack of effort or desire in yesterday's loss, they played well and it wasn't close to being enough.

Something has to change. Either the Tigers need to slip up a little or bit or someone in the A's line-up is going to have to go bonkers. And it wouldhelp if Haren could, you know, do his best Dave Stewart impression and put the team on his back for a day. I don't think any of those things are givens, and they certainly aren't things that Chavez could have said in an interview.

Why yes. I am a ray of warm and fuzzy sunshine.

by grover on Oct 14, 2006 11:00 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Jesus
Hadn't seen this. The guy really is the worst possible quote if you're looking for hope.

These should all be collected. They're incredible.

A personal favorite from 2000 during a telecast from New York (I'll never forget it). Rivera had just come in and, because Chavez was coming to the plate, Channel 36 went to some voiceover they had gotten from Chavvy about Rivera.

Chavez was saying that there was no way he could hit Rivera, that basically every at bat he had no chance. By the time the clip was played the count was 0-1 or 0-2, and Ray Fosse (you know, the guy who has won championships) was in the booth and he wanted to say the right thing, but his jaw had just dropped at how Chavez had on tape conceded that he has no shot against this guy, and Fosse said something about, "Well, that's not what Chavvy needs to be saying," or "That's not the approach Chavvy should be taking," or something like that.

 Chavvy struck out on cue--and why shouldn't he have struck out; he'd already conceded he had no shot in the at bat.

It was hilarious.

And, please, I'm all for honesty. But is there anybody out there stupid enough to not think that Chavez viewing things that way makes it a little less likely that he'll succeed in that at bat.

And so, six years later, the same with his remarks in this series.

by RLangford on Oct 13, 2006 11:20 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Exactly. Good Anecdote.
I've never played in the majors, but I played in college. If you believe you are overmatched by a pitcher, you're overmatched by a pitcher. If you believe you've been beat, you're beat.

So much of baseball is approach and confidence. Yogi Bera was right when he said "Baseball is 90% mental."

by Eck on Oct 14, 2006 7:57 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Chavez
Why can't he be more passive with his mouth?
The score is _always_ 0-0 until the final out. Each pitch is a new ballgame.

by FanSinceKC on Oct 13, 2006 9:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I translate that quote to:
"We're getting our ass kicked."

Which is a pretty accurate account of the series so far.

Why yes. I am a ray of warm and fuzzy sunshine.

by grover on Oct 13, 2006 10:11 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I translate it to
"It's not frustrating. They're better than we are." Oh wait, that's exactly what he said.

Doesn't really need translating does it.

If any players stereotypically characterized as malcontents or lazy or detached--read most black players who speak their minds (like Bradley, say)--said something like this they'd be fried.

People would be calling for Milton's head. And Urban would be handing it to them on MLB.COM. Rosenthal would lead with it from the field, hinting at how it had caused a stir in the A's clubhouse and you "had to wonder what Bradley was thinking." Steve Lyons would drone on about it, about how that's why Bradley hasn't stayed places very long--the whole attitude thing. FOX would show a picture of a glowering Bradley inset against the quote under the heading "GAME OVER." Etc.

by RLangford on Oct 13, 2006 10:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

so very true
but you know what?  I LOVE Bradley and wish that BB would sign him to a fat extension and build this team around his 5 tools.  Chop and his ceaseless whining and excuse-making can step aside...every year it's something else with him.

MB was our best player in the postseason and I think he's found a home here, he belongs.  I love every minute of him, he is brilliant, articulate, committed to winning, and inspiring.  I wish I could thank him to his face for taking SO MUCH SHIT in this pathetic, neanderthal racist country and performing as he has, giving us his best.  That game on Wednesday night, he tried to pick up the other 24 guys and physically carry them to victory.  Chop, who is a good but not great player, wouldn't ever attempt to do that.  Why, I do not know, but I guess some guys have it and some just don't.

1972...1973...1974...1989...2006

by emperor nobody on Oct 13, 2006 10:37 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Me Too
Bradley is so much more articulate than I would have guessed. And all he wants to do is win.

by Eck on Oct 13, 2006 10:50 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bradley
was great on Robert B.'s interview a few weeks ago.  He has made mistakes.  He recognizes who he is and that he needs to channel his extraordinary passion.  He has been succeeding, thanks to a fantastically supportive clubhouse.  Too bad his "home-run dance" with Swish has not become the much-replayed clip from the ALCS.

Maybe next season, Milton will channel his passion toward leadership (not unlike Miggy).

The score is _always_ 0-0 until the final out. Each pitch is a new ballgame.

by FanSinceKC on Oct 13, 2006 11:09 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Wish I Woud Have Heard It
Thanks for the recap.

Every time I've heard Bradley , I've been impressed by his awareness and insight. Even his awful quote tonight about not having Ortiz showed a sense of (recent) history and an awareness that it's not all about him.

I've been hard on Swisher as a player, but it seems like he was exactly the friend Bradley needed.  

by Eck on Oct 13, 2006 11:21 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Swisher and Bradley
It would have made me so proud to have seen their homerun "dance" replayed more widely.  The West Virginia good ol' boy and the angry black male uniting and INSPIRING THE TEAM.
The score is _always_ 0-0 until the final out. Each pitch is a new ballgame.

by FanSinceKC on Oct 13, 2006 11:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

such a beautiful combination
and one of the best parts of this season

Like I said, I think MB has found the only team that he can play on and not go mad, and I wish I could thank him personally for his effort and contributions to this, the best team of the BB era so far.

1972...1973...1974...1989...2006

by emperor nobody on Oct 13, 2006 11:43 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Bradley
has gotten a lot out of being on the A's, and has given a whole lot back -- more and more lately.  What the Robert B. interview showed was that he's not the same person he was a year ago.  I hope so much he stays here and channels his passion toward leadership.  We need him to step forward.

(The following is a stupid story: on opening night, my family and I were sitting near the right field foul pole.  When Bradley took his place in right field in the top of the first, I yelled out "GO MILTON."  I yelled it because I wanted to do my miniscule part to welcome him.  When I yelled it, he turned his head just a little toward me -- I'm sure for some other reason -- but of course I like to think he heard my welcome.)

The score is _always_ 0-0 until the final out. Each pitch is a new ballgame.

by FanSinceKC on Oct 14, 2006 12:22 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

"They're better than we are"
That's something you say after the series is over.  True or not, saying it before anything is decided sends a horrible message.  It in fact flies in the face of a ballteam ethic that, rightly or wrongly, has been drilled into every big leaguer's head since they were in high school.

Chavez' candor might be refreshing, but he needs an internal editor.

Eternal Springs™: The official October bottled water of your Oakland Athletics

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Oct 13, 2006 11:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

and to be clear

I love Eric.  I don't agree with any of the comments here about moving him, or making someone else the captain, or whatever.  He always plays hard, and he's a really good player.

But this was a terrible thing to say.  Basically told his teammates to go home.  There's just no place for that kind of talk.  You have to fight until you can't anymore.

by brooklyn as fan on Oct 13, 2006 10:12 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

it's just a prima facie case of
                          When "Keepin' It Real"

                                      GOES WRONG
1972...1973...1974...1989...2006

by emperor nobody on Oct 13, 2006 10:27 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Yes, exactly and hilariously
That's the painful, frustrating, yet lovable story of Chavez just speaking his mind.

Great Chappelle reference.

by RLangford on Oct 13, 2006 10:33 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Chavez is clubhouse poison
The A's should trade this vermin.
The A's success should surprise no one. They're a much better team than people give them credit for. -- Joe Morgan

by BubbaDude on Oct 13, 2006 11:24 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Starting pitching
First, that argument above on Harden is nonsense. Look, all three starters haven't delivered at all. Harden happened to get lucky, but putting the team in a 2-0 hole in the first and laboring in the innings that followed wasn't exactly the inspirational start that the team needed.

As for Zito and Loaiza: They were both awful. I don't care about plays not made by Jimenez and Chavez, Zito was getting shelled after those first 8 outs. He didn't get yanked in the 4th because of bad luck; he got yanked because Macha was trying to hold on to the game.

And Loaiza--he was a complete disaster. After we went up 3-1, he allowed two leadoff hits. He strikes out Guillen, then inexplicably walks Pudge on 4 pitches. Monroe lines a single to center, and Loaiza has effectively taken everything we gained and flushed it away--4 of the first 5 have reached. One poor play by Chavez later, we're in deep shit. But that's not all: Loaiza then surrenders a two-out double and homer to essentially put the game away. A horrible performance.

Look, I love all these pitchers and this whole team. But our starting pitching has really let us down. Of course, so has our hitting and our defense.

So it's been a complete fucking disaster.

by RLangford on Oct 13, 2006 8:38 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

yep
and the tigers played well and exploited more than meets the eye ...so disaster for us, triumph for them.
a manager, my kingdom for a manager!

by ak_A on Oct 13, 2006 10:13 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

the best thing you can do
right now is heep all the praise on detroit.  if they see the champagne chilling already, maybe they lose a little focus, maybe the a's can play loose and smart. just win one and worry about it later.  you thought rogers was bad. i would love to see the a's get another shot at nate roberston (the left handed Frankie Rodriguez will all his fist pumping and yelling).  

by KCB on Oct 13, 2006 8:38 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Kielty: The gutless decision
Where the hell was Kielty in Games 1 & 3? That's completely inexcusable. And if you don't think so, remind yourself that we scored 1 run in the two games combined.

My god, what was the braintrust of this team thinking in sitting down the second best bat on the team vs. lefties.

I thought he would be a huge factor in the post-season against New York (Johnson) and especially Detroit (Robertson and Rogers). And we sit him. The guy mashed lefties all year, hitting key homer after key homer in games we won (Lilly, Kazmir, the slam against Cliff Lee). And we never sent him to the plate against a lefty.

That's unforgivable.

by RLangford on Oct 13, 2006 8:39 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

agree
Macha could have played Kielty and sat Payton, who hasn't been doing much lately, and still kept Kotsay in for his defense.

by snowflake on Oct 13, 2006 9:53 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I advocated exactly that for Game 1
and Payton hit two doubles, so what do I know? But yes, I think that would have been a smart balance, to get a truly excellent righty bat in there and keep your best defensive OFer anchoring the OF.
I like Cindi. A. She never pretends to know more than she does. B. She has unbridled enthusiasm for her "Hotties," and isn't afraid to show it. -IM4Oakgal

by Nico on Oct 13, 2006 10:15 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

groan
The last couple of innings were painful to watch. I even ditched work 10 min early and headed to Ricky's.

Well it was nice knowing you all. Time to watch football.

. . .

Seriously though, I'm looking for respectability, and preferably us not getting swept. But respectability, at least a smidge.

"We need to bring back those orange glow-in-the-dark balls we used to have growing up for games here." - Zito on the Metrodome

by aymlam79 on Oct 13, 2006 8:54 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

We all know...
...how hard it is to win that last game of a series. We're just not used to being on the '0' end of that score.

I hope that Macha, Beane, and the A's braintrust will make some offensive adjustments for Game 4. When someone's not hitting during the season, you sit them. Same should be true.

Shuffle the deck, put a different combo out there, and maybe we can build some momentum. If they march out with the same ol' lineup tomorrow, I might not watch. Oh, who am I kidding? I'll watch, but I won't be happy.

by Dann on Oct 13, 2006 8:55 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Hey all...
Let's save the "Well, at least we got to the ALCS, and if we had to loose the Tigers are a good team to loose too, and we just got outplayed, and..." until we're actually eliminated!

Right now we should be focused on cheering for A's in 7!!!!

Five words:

His Tor Ic Come Back.

by mhoffman on Oct 13, 2006 9:44 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

damn right!
:]
Go A's. That is all :]

by amandarae on Oct 13, 2006 10:01 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You know . . .
the A's are going to win tomorrow because I'll be wearing my lucky underwear. Oooh yeah!

by superhombre10 on Oct 13, 2006 10:35 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I"ve been
wearing my lucky underwear since Twins game 1. I've lost all my friends, and my girlfriend, and we STILL might nt make it to the WC.

by mhoffman on Oct 13, 2006 11:13 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

The good news is the A's have a game Saturday!
It is a new day to forget the past and not worry about the future. Get excited that the A's have a big game Saturday.

by jdye on Oct 13, 2006 10:02 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

I understand A's fans are planning
some sort of ritualistic ceremony in which they lead D'Angelo Jimenez off into the wilderness and then push him over a cliff.

Any truth to this?

by RLangford on Oct 13, 2006 10:36 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

The last A's game I ever follow...
...or give a shit about, may very likely happen in game 4 of this series if they lose.  But, my decision doesn't even have to do with the fact that the season may end:
   The following is also personal: as an Oakland resident, I told myself in March that if the A's didn't win go to World Series this year (or even better win it), that politicans in the city would turn their heads for good on the team, feeling that they are not worthy of having a new, baseball-only ballpark in Oakland.  Division titles and 1st-round wins are not what they are looking for; they are looking for ways to get the money flowing in, it seems, with the help of the later rounds of post season.
   Wolff's comments in March about looking at Fremont/other could easily be taken literally, but it is now reality unless there is someone here to satisfy Wolff and Fisher.  I tried not to take the "threat to move" seriously.  However, the failure to advance this season in the post season--barring a miracle--is making it seem more and more obvious that the team will be in Fremont, out or out of the Bay Area, at worst.
   As soon as the announcement came in '95 that the Raiders were returning, I dreaded this conclusion for the A's, including going through a major depression in part because of it, and dreading it more, year after year.  Al Davis made it worse, and most of the city officials are letting the A's slip away partly (or mainly) because of this.
   Unless I decide to move from Oakland one day, which I hope never has to happen, it looks like good-bye, for a city in which they have made a statement as a franchise, with the WS, pennant and division wins, plus many great players.
   I guess we'll find out for sure closer to the time Dellums starts his mayorial term, regarding the teams future, and where.
   **Sorry if this is a multi-repeated post of different variation.  I just had to let it "all come out".
Go A's...and hope you stay(???), regardless of how slim the chances might be. <sigh>

by wolffpackdavid on Oct 13, 2006 10:41 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

by the way, the A's and Oakland
are about to signe the lease extension for the A's to keep playing in the Coliseum til 2010, plus three one-year extension options 'til 2013.

http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/sports/baseball/mlb/oakland_athletics/15748953.htm

by OaklandSi on Oct 13, 2006 11:22 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

saw that, thanks
That is good to know, but it doesn't keep the team from eventually moving.  That is my biggest concern, and Wolff--under pressure from his frat bro I believe--is likely going to do everything he can to get a baseball only park, regardless of where it is in Alameda or CC county.  At least the San Jose crap is done, thanks to Peter McGowan and all.
   Bottom line, they need to stay here.  I emailed by district council-hopeful (via election) last night, who earlier this year was a major part of the Keep The A's in Oakland movement.  With her help, working with Dellums and others, hopefully something keeps them here...even if it means an extention rail/airtrain from BART (along the lines of muni metro for phone-park in SF).

by wolffpackdavid on Oct 13, 2006 11:30 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm with you
I think many things can happen in these next years. Nothing is certain as far as the team is concerned.

by OaklandSi on Oct 13, 2006 11:42 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Defense
I find it interesting that the one position I was most worried about going into the playoffs (shortstop)hasn't been a problem at all and the two I was the least worried about (2B, 3B) have really hurt the A's.  

by McBain on Oct 13, 2006 11:03 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Bad Bunch of Posts
Reading through these posts, I feel angry for our A's. Which is weird because "pity" and "millionaires" rarely belong in the same sentence.

But I feel bad for them---and angry at us. These guys have torn themselves apart for six months for our enjoyment. They have grinded it out, clawed their way back and overcome so much. And we've enjoyed that journey all the way. Just one short week ago, we were near the top of the world.

And now, because we're down 0-3, and things look dim, it's ok to bash on these guys? To question their character? Win or lose, they're our team. There is plenty of time later to review the season and assess the future. But as long as there are games to be played, we should be behind them til the last out.

by Dann on Oct 14, 2006 1:05 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

THANK YOU!
I am really tired of all these negative posts. Like you said, just one short week ago, we were on top of the world and these guys could do no wrong.

Now, we are all feeling the exact oposite of that moment. Ok, it sucks. But that is no reason to suddenly bash our players, the organization, and say, "I will no longer be an A's fan if they don't win tomorrow!"

These guys have played their Butts off, literally, all season. The least we can do for them now is support them and believe in them. They have not played wrapped in duct tape all season long to simply give up just because they are down 3-0!!

There is still baseball to be played. So we should enjoy it and support our team. They are still OUR team. Even if they do close out the season tomorrow, we aren't going to run and hide all our A's gear. We will still sport it proudly and still call ourselves A's FANS!

And if we do ditch all our Fandom, just because they don't make it to the World Series, then we are just bandwagoners and we are no better than Yankee fans!

"This is the best hug in the major leagues, right here!" - Swisher Pics

by BobbyCrosbysGirl on Oct 14, 2006 1:35 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You said it! Today is our last chance
possibly to see our beloved A's, or maybe our first glimpse into A's history! Let's scream and yell and bang our drums, willing them to a victory! See you all here!

by A'sfansince1970 on Oct 14, 2006 8:33 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

You said it! Today is our last chance
possibly to see our beloved A's, or maybe our first glimpse into A's history! Let's scream and yell and bang our drums, willing them to a victory! See you all here!

by A'sfansince1970 on Oct 14, 2006 8:33 AM PDT up reply