Thomas and Barton

by Bambi on Jan 28, 2006 8:54 PM PST

Considering how little we're paying him, I think most people here would be happy if Frank Thomas gives us a repeat of his 2004 performance: 74 games, 18 HR, 434 OPS and 563 SLG. There is a chance though that he may be like the Frank Thomas of old and give us 150 games and 40 HR. He'll be with a winning team, and have plenty of protection with DJ, Crosby, Bradley and Swish hitting behind him. In addition to wanting to reach 500 HR, he'll want to prove that his former team made a big mistake in letting him go. While only in our wildest dreams will we have this problem, what if Frank Thomas remains healthy and has an incredible year, and helps us win the World Series? It seems that in such a case we'd have to resign him, and give him the big raise he'd deserve. It also seems he'd want to come back and further cement his case for the HOF.

It would also create a problem of what to do with Barton. If DJ is doing great, we wouldn't want to bench him just to make room for Barton, no matter how promising he may seem. (Look at how we didn't give DJ a shot - even during a rebuilding year - when Hatty seemed to be doing well.) Will Barton start playing catcher more so that he'll have more to provide the team? Will he start experimenting at 2nd base and be given more chances at left field? Will we make him spend an extra year at AAA so that he'll be older and more developed when we get the first six years of his career?

While we may not have this problem, everyone here at AN should be hoping we do. If DJ and Thomas each have a career year, then Barton's only shot of making the team would be as a catcher, left fielder, or backup infielder. Otherwise he'd have to age a bit before joining the Rockin A's.

Tweet Comment 33 comments | 0 recs |

Do you like this story?

Comments

Barton has a slot

Barton though, will spend the year in the Minors unless Thomas goes out of action for the rest of the year with injury.

That means in 2007, the roster should look something like:

C1: Kendall
1B: Barton
2B: Ellis
3B: Chavez
SS: Crosby
LF: Swisher
RF: Bradley
CF: Kotsay
DH: Johnson

Knowledge is Power, Ignorance is Bliss. But I have Blissful Power, because I have a lot of knowledge, I just forgot it all!

by Zonis on Jan 28, 2006 8:58 PM PST reply actions

What if we bring Thomas back?

If he has a career year and wins the WS MVP, wouldn't we have to? What happens to Barton then?

by Bambi on Jan 28, 2006 9:00 PM PST up reply actions

No, we wouldn't keep Thomas

likely, because he would get a bigger contract then we would like to give him. We might just let him go for Draft Picks, or he might retire.

Most likely what 'could' happen if he hit 40 HR and stayed healthy all year, would be for the WhiteSox or such to try to sign him with the intention of him hitting his 500th HR as a WSock before retiring.

Knowledge is Power, Ignorance is Bliss. But I have Blissful Power, because I have a lot of knowledge, I just forgot it all!

by Zonis on Jan 28, 2006 9:23 PM PST up reply actions

Frankly (get it?),

I think the White Sox and Thomas have burned that bridge, in all likelihood.

by Nico on Jan 28, 2006 9:28 PM PST up reply actions

I don't think

He'll get another huge contract, even if he does do well. The guy has already made a crapload of money.

The 2005 Oakland A's: Believe Harder.

by tblazrdude on Jan 28, 2006 10:46 PM PST up reply actions

So have

all the Angels' burnt-out players making $10 M a year anyway

by Alon on Jan 29, 2006 11:36 AM PST up reply actions

Let Barton force the A's to bring him up

so far, ...that isn't the case.

1/25/06 JayPay; "I'd be open to whatever else is out there. ... If Boston had an everyday job in center field, I certainly wouldn't block that."

by A s Eh on Jan 28, 2006 9:11 PM PST reply actions

Even if Barton hits 40 HRs this year

If Thomas hits 40 in the Big Leagues and DJ hits 30, Barton may have to wait until 2008 or longer. I hope we have this problem, but Barton may have to go back to catcher, and be older and stronger before forcing his way in.

by Bambi on Jan 28, 2006 9:21 PM PST up reply actions

I'm counting on FT to get 300 at bats

That leaves 300.
JayPay is making play me everyday noises.

Barton is not blocked
DJ was blocked temporarily, if Barton earns a shot, he'll get it.
it's premature,...he hasn't earned it yet.

DJ did everything right
ripped in Spring Training
and was sent back to AAA.

To tell you the truth I WANT the A's MLB Roster to be strong not to block rooks but so they have to earn it.

It beats all the other options.

1/25/06 JayPay; "I'd be open to whatever else is out there. ... If Boston had an everyday job in center field, I certainly wouldn't block that."

by A s Eh on Jan 28, 2006 9:37 PM PST up reply actions

No,

the A's simply will not be able to keep FT if he posts 40 HRs (which is incredibly unlikely)

He'll try and hit maybe 35 this year and then 17 or so next year to put him over the 500 HR mark

Even if FT wins AL MVP award, smashes 20 Postseason HRs, and hits the game winning grand-slam in a 3-3 World Series tie in the 9th inning with 2 outs and a 0-2 count against (insert NL team here), the A's would simply not be able to resign him. The logic that they would somehow be forced into resigning him for sentimental reasons has been disproven each and every time an A's player walked. Giambi, Tejada... They were pretty good, won some MVP's, we let 'em slide even though if we had kept them in all likelihood BB would have his WS by now.

by Alon on Jan 29, 2006 11:40 AM PST up reply actions

If...

Big Hurts ankle snaps and injuries abound on the big league roster and Barton is bashing the snot out of the ball in triple-a then PERHAPS BIlly would think of a call-up. But there is really no need to rush Daric Barton at this point. He still needs to grow as a ballplayer. I think the eariliest we will see him is in september and that's provided he handles triple-a with ease. Remember he's only 20...

by Little Rickey on Jan 28, 2006 9:18 PM PST reply actions

If Thomas and DJ do great

Barton may have to be 22-23 before geting his shot.

by Bambi on Jan 28, 2006 9:22 PM PST up reply actions

...and maybe he'll have a position other

than DH by then.

...and that is a good thing.

1/25/06 JayPay; "I'd be open to whatever else is out there. ... If Boston had an everyday job in center field, I certainly wouldn't block that."

by A s Eh on Jan 28, 2006 9:39 PM PST up reply actions

That's what I hoping for

If Thoams does great, we can stop rushing Barton and give him a chance to learn how to play a position.

by Bambi on Jan 28, 2006 9:41 PM PST up reply actions

Even if Barton hits 40 HRs this year

by Bambi on Jan 28, 2006 9:20 PM PST reply actions

Seems to me as if

in the unlikely event Thomas has two years left in him and Barton is so good and ready that he can't wait until 2008 for a full-time call-up, then we would probably trade Johnson for lots of yummies, filling other needs while Barton slips into the lineup.

I think Johnson is an example of the A's willingness to let a player start in AAA even when he's ready for the bigs, if the timing isn't right yet. And if Barton is "held back" by being in AAA in 2007 when he could be in the bigs, he'll come up to start 2008 as a 22-23 year old rookie with 6 full years of contract control ahead of him. The problem...? I don't see it.

by Nico on Jan 28, 2006 9:26 PM PST reply actions

It's a problem we'd love to have.

It's the classic "embarrassment of riches". Barton gets more time to learn a position- making him more valuable to us - even as he ages and gets stronger. Imagine how valuable Barton would be to us if he could be a starting Big League catcher? Piazza may have an heir apparent.

by Bambi on Jan 28, 2006 9:40 PM PST up reply actions

maybe we could use this year

to allow barton to develop as an outfielder?

just brainstorming...

by kvn on Jan 28, 2006 9:49 PM PST reply actions

Or how 'bout

as a LOOGY? 4 AB's as the DH, then come in and get Blalock out...

by Nico on Jan 28, 2006 9:51 PM PST reply actions

You know, in the years of the reliever ERA

you would think a reliever would come around with hitting stats so sweet they would use him regularly as a PH or even DH when not on the mound.

Sure some get in 1-9 at bats a season but I'm suggesting 100+ at bats as both a pitcher & Hitter.

(Canseco doesn't count on this one)

1/25/06 JayPay; "I'd be open to whatever else is out there. ... If Boston had an everyday job in center field, I certainly wouldn't block that."

by A s Eh on Jan 28, 2006 10:01 PM PST up reply actions

Oh, but they do

His name is Dontrelle Willis

Knowledge is Power, Ignorance is Bliss. But I have Blissful Power, because I have a lot of knowledge, I just forgot it all!

by Zonis on Jan 28, 2006 10:03 PM PST up reply actions

Takes a kid from the Bay Area to get it right!

I'll be watching him better this year!

1/25/06 JayPay; "I'd be open to whatever else is out there. ... If Boston had an everyday job in center field, I certainly wouldn't block that."

by A s Eh on Jan 28, 2006 10:49 PM PST up reply actions

That's why I, personally,

consider Babe Ruth to be the best player of all time. Not for his hitting or for his pitching, but for both.

by Nico on Jan 28, 2006 10:13 PM PST up reply actions

I can't argue with that,

...amongst the leaders in both facets too!

1/25/06 JayPay; "I'd be open to whatever else is out there. ... If Boston had an everyday job in center field, I certainly wouldn't block that."

by A s Eh on Jan 28, 2006 10:52 PM PST up reply actions

Much more applicable than Dontrelle is:

Brooks Kieschnick of the Milwaukee Brewers.

Not sure what happened to him in '05 but he was pitching and hitting consistently in '04...

A few career stats:
Pitching:
4.59 ERA, 1.417 WHIP

Hitting:
BA/OBP/SLG/OPS
.248/.315/.444/.759

Not great, but he played more often than Dontrelle and was more 2-way than Dontrelle is. If I remember correctly, the Giants have always had good hitting pitchers, like Livan Hernandez and Russ Ortiz, when they were there.

"...and in Joe [Blanton]'s case, it's almost like he crammed the whole rookie year in a month, then became a veteran." --Billy Beane

by rungood on Jan 29, 2006 9:29 AM PST up reply actions

NL examples are by necessity but if there

is an AL pitcher that also is DH when not pitching,
...that is the rare talent I was fishing for

1/25/06 JayPay; "I'd be open to whatever else is out there. ... If Boston had an everyday job in center field, I certainly wouldn't block that."

by A s Eh on Jan 30, 2006 6:45 AM PST up reply actions

Barton & Thomas

If Thomas plays well enough to the point that we'd consider playing him over Daric Barton, I think he'd be commanding way too much money and would likely depart via free agency. If he really wants to stay with the A's, he could give us a discount. In that case, I see the A's either letting Barton play in AAA for another year, OR, if he's knocking down the door to the Bigs, trade DJ for help at another position and play Barton at 1B.

by OaktownTribesman on Jan 29, 2006 7:38 AM PST reply actions

If FT has a monster season in '06

I could see the A's giving him another (bigger) incentive-laden contract and Frank agreeing to this as a sort of 'hometown' discount. Here's hoping this situation arises!!

"...and in Joe [Blanton]'s case, it's almost like he crammed the whole rookie year in a month, then became a veteran." --Billy Beane

by rungood on Jan 29, 2006 9:31 AM PST up reply actions

I don't think

Barton will be up until the end of 2007 at the earliest. The guy is only 20 years (21 in August) and hasn't even had a full year at AA. There is no way he makes the jump from AA to MLB even if someone gets hurt. Barton needs a full year at AAA IMHO before we bring him up...plus he still needs a position. Also there was some concern about his power, so let's see him produce at AAA before we start writing his name in the lineup.

But if your life is such a big joke, then why should I care?

by johnspaz7 on Jan 29, 2006 10:22 AM PST reply actions

Did someone say Barton?

He's got enough OBP for a small army, and that's all the A's are concerned about at this point. Power comes. Sure, a full AAA year would be nice, but who really wants to leave him down there if he's posting a .300-.400-.500 line halfway through the year? The concerns about his power stem from his size. However, despite his size, he is quite Athletic, and looks like he could fill out to about 210 lbs, which is enough given his fantastic eye to give him around 30-35 HRs or so at the peak of his career.

by Alon on Jan 29, 2006 11:43 AM PST up reply actions

I don't see him on the 40 man roster

his name isn't listed on the non-roster invitees either.

I doubt he gets called up unless there's a major injury.

as for the AA thing, he could be promoted to AAA at any time, and Billy already said there was some consideration of calling him up to the bigs LAST YEAR. so, no, it's not totally unrealistic. but, yeah, it's unlikely.

by kvn on Jan 29, 2006 10:20 PM PST up reply actions

yea

I forget the actual specifics of the rule, but Barton hasn't been involved in professional baseball enough / in the minors long enough for us to HAVE to put him on the 40 man roster. Herrera is only on the 40 man roster for that specific reason...because we have had him for a certain # of years. If we didn't put him on the 40 man roster, then he could have gotten drafted in the rule 5 I believe.

Back to Barton, my main point is that there is a big difference between AA and MLB pitching. He should get some seasoning at AAA before he's brought up, but that's just my opinion.

But if your life is such a big joke, then why should I care?

by johnspaz7 on Jan 30, 2006 4:33 AM PST up reply actions