So long AN. - Katrina Donation from FoolshGame22

Nova

Go or stay it doesn't matter to me. You're one of the many faceless people who's comments I read and have an opinion on.

But I can honestly say after reading the two links you provided that the "hatred" you seek to escape seemed to be coming from you. Only one way to escape that kinda hatred and I hope that's not an act you're considering.

Godspeed. Come back anytime.

by grover on Sep 4, 2005 10:08 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I can understand where your coming from

ANer's saying not just that Katrina couldve been prevented and that it is Bush's fault that New Orleans is destroyed because of leading us into the war. Im not going to get into politcal beliefs, but lots of money is wasted every year on things other than the war. Blaming people instead of just trying to help the people involved is rediculous. But people are entitled to there opinion and if your going to leave just because people think differently is up to you, but it is pretty weak. AN along with the world is not perfect.

by SanTropez on Sep 4, 2005 10:21 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

No way, I don't believe it...

Im not going to get into politcal beliefs, but lots of money is wasted every year on things other than the war.

...but I will get political!

http://www.lib.lsu.edu/gov/alpha [wasted money, NOPE, try again ;) ]

Or, to see what we allow our government to spend, you could always check out table 3.16 on this site and manipulate the pull-down menu. Check out item #28 and tell me that health care shoul not be socialized. Government is just scrimping by here. Never speak of wasted money again, SanTropez!

by LowcountryJoe on Sep 5, 2005 5:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe wasted isnt the correct term

but what I am trying to say is, you can play Monday Morning QB and say well we shouldve taken money from here and there and strengthened the levy system. No one knew this was coming. How can you to say that money from the Iraq War wouldve gone to reinforce one levy system, in one state, in one city, at a certain time . The money probably wouldve gone to improve the roadways or put truck stops along the road or somthing that seems irrelevant now.

by SanTropez on Sep 5, 2005 9:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I was being sarcastic. Check the links.

by LowcountryJoe on Sep 5, 2005 3:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nobody knew what was coming?

Everyone in New Orleans knew what was coming. They'd known it for years. And after 9/11, the chance that the levees would be blown up, in an effort to destroy New Orleans, was considered such a high possibility that $250m per year was earmarked for strengthening them.

But according to the former head of the Army Engineers Corps, that money soon started disappearing. It went down to $145m a year, then $87m, and this last year, $56m. In fact, he was quoted as saying that the money for this year would be spent paying contractors from last year - that's how dire the situation was pre-hurricane.

Did the money go to Iraq or truck stops? Don't care. It was taken away from the levees, and that's all that matters right now.

And regarding the question of whether it's appropriate to lay blame or rescue people... I wasn't aware it's an either/or proposition. Surely those of us who can chew gum and walk at the same time can yell for the truth to emerge while we're yelling for rescuers to be allowed in... right?

FEMA turned away rescue workers
The last time America lost a city
Congressional record of ignored cries for help on the levee system

by Ozzz on Sep 5, 2005 3:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oo! Look! Pretty straw men!

ST, may I respectfully say that no one at AN has said the things you attribute to them/us.

No one has alleged "that Katrina couldve been prevented."

No one has alleged that "it is Bush's fault that New Orleans is destroyed because of leading us into the war."

Many folks have criticized the preparedness (materially, fiscally, and managerially) of FEMA and DHS.

And here's the thing that bugs me most about novaoakland's responses -- many people wrote at length and in specifics about this matter, on both sides, with dialogue between the different viewpoints, and all that novaoakland saw was "Bush sucks."

And all that he responded, essentially, was "No, you guys suck."

It's tough out there, Pootie. You got drugs ... crime ... gorillas ...

by monkeyball on Sep 5, 2005 11:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

nova, i think that you know you're wrong

the first comment that you make on the first link, is a big "FU". and that was probably your most well reasoned arguement.

"While Americans die in Iraq and here at home it apparently is more acceptable to preach hatred than hope, blame than faith."... Why is it so hard for you to understand peoples reaction when we choose to go to war when it wasn't absolutely necessary or absolutely our last or best option? You can hate some of the things this country has done and complain about them and still love this country, still have hope that it will improve. Indeed, a free and functional society needs dissent. Dissent is a patriotic act more than blind obediance. I'm sure you'ld like to dissent if you didn't like who was in charge. You can blame people and be angry that they screwed up; it doesn't mean that you don't love this country or have faith that it will improve.

by danh on Sep 4, 2005 10:38 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Not to defend

Questioning what your leader does and the directions taken and decisions he makes are all well and good, but when a bunch of people are bitching about how it could've been prevented instead of helping and doing whatever you can to help these people who are now homeless and all the future problems that come with it is wrong. Youre looking for someone to blame instead of saying "wow bad stuff happens why dont we help these people the best we can." Could it have been prevented? Sure. Do you really think though 14 B of the money we saved from the money in Iraq wouldve been spent to strengthen the levy system on New Orleans? I doubt it. It wouldve been squandered some other irrelevant way.
All im trying to say is criticizing your leader and being active is good but more attention should be put on helping the victims of this and helping them before we turn to blaming everyone else.

by SanTropez on Sep 4, 2005 10:53 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

you can question and help

i don't think that either that the hurricane or 9/11 were caused (or could have been prevented) by either democrats or republicans. i think the response to katrina was very lame however. it may have been as lame under presidents gore or kerry -- we'll never know, but the bitching would've been justified no matter who was president. and i'm not delusional enough to believe that the money going to iraq would have gone to defend new orleans or improve our schools or health system etc. this government's (and our country's) priorities are elsewhere. perhaps the large percentage of national guard over there would've helped (to deny that is to insult their ability)..
much is being written about how money that was supposed to go toward planning to defend new orleans was cut recently, but i think it wouldn't have helped this time (project would have taken years). but shouldn't those decisions be looked at, and lessons learned?
how does criticizing the leadership of this country detract from helping the victims, dectract from my donations?

by danh on Sep 4, 2005 11:50 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Questioning is good

I think people getting involved politically, and making there own opinions about issues is important, but it seems to me like people are just looking for someone to blame for everything that ever goes wrong. It was a natural disaster, no one could predict it was coming 3 years ago. Should we examine it to try and protect somthing like this from happening again? Yes. There is no reason to try and blame everyone else for natural disasters.

by SanTropez on Sep 5, 2005 10:07 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

This disaster WAS predicted by FEMA

a whole lot longer than three years ago.

A Beane in the hand is worth $60M in payroll

by jeepers on Sep 5, 2005 10:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

This disaster has been predicted for AGES

study after study has shown that the NO levees wouldn't withstand a category 4. It was only a matter of time. Meanwhile, funding for Hurricane protection was cut 50% in the last two years, by, guess who---yes, the president.

It would have cost 14b to completely protect New Orleans. 14 billion is about the amount used in two weeks for relief efforts. Not to mention the loss of life and property.

The Giants are printing playoff tickets. No, thats not a line from Comedy Central---Glenn Dickey

by Alien on Sep 5, 2005 10:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

But why not blame the government...

...for the [two day, at the least,] delay? Link below.

Experts: Focus on terrorism delays FEMA response to Katrina
By Alison Young and Seth Borenstein
Knight Ridder Newspapers
Friday, Sep. 02, 2005

The chaotic government response to Hurricane Katrina, which even President Bush said was "not acceptable," was the inevitable result of federal policies emphasizing protection from terrorist attacks at the expense of preparing for far more common natural disasters, state emergency officials and other experts said Friday...
...The hearings and investigations will likely show that the disaster response expertise of FEMA was badly eroded once it became part of the terrorism-fighting bureaucracy of Homeland Security, state officials and some former FEMA officials said..
"There are no emergency managers at any level in the Department of Homeland Security. It's all law enforcement," said George Haddow, former FEMA deputy chief of staff. "It doesn't look like anyone's in charge to me because the system has been deconstructed."...
...Several members of Congress are questioning the wisdom of rolling FEMA into Homeland Security.
"FEMA should not be hindered by a top-heavy bureaucracy when they are needed to act swiftly to save lives," said Rep. Mark Foley, R-Fla. He said he plans to introduce legislation when Congress reconvenes to pull FEMA out of Homeland Security.
Rep. Bill Pascrell, D-N.J., a member of the House Committee on Homeland Security, said he voted to put FEMA under Homeland Security - and now questions that decision after watching all the chaos.
"What's happening is inexcusable," Pascrell said Friday. "God knows how many people we're going to find who have died because of starvation or died because they have not received proper medical help."
FEMA Director Michael Brown defended his agency's efforts against a barrage of criticisms and video reports showing slow response.
"I understand that there are pockets where people have not gotten the basics, and we're working with the Coast Guard to get those," Brown told CBS's "The Early Show." "But I'm telling you, we have those supplies."
As federal officials tried to get some control over the deteriorating situation in New Orleans, chaos was being replaced with bureaucratic rules that inhibited private relief organizations' efforts.
"We've tried desperately to rescue 250 people trapped in a Salvation Army facility. They've been trapped in there since the flood came in. Many are on dialysis machines," said Maj. George Hood, national communications secretary for the relief organization.
"Yesterday we rented big fan boats to pull them out and the National Guard would not let us enter the city," he said. The reason: a new plan to evacuate the embattled city grid by grid - and the Salvation Army's facility didn't fall in the right grid that day, Hood said in a telephone interview from Jackson, Miss.
"No, it doesn't make sense," he said.
The Salvation Army, along with the American Red Cross and other relief organizations, is supplying meals to refugees in Mississippi, Louisiana and Alabama. But Hood said good supply lines to keep relief stations stocked with bottled water, food and gas still haven't been established...
...With much federal help only now beginning to arrive or still promised as being on the way, Sen. Mary Landrieu, D-La., called on President Bush to appoint within the next 24 hours a Cabinet-level official to direct the national response to Hurricane Katrina.
"The American people have continued to look to FEMA to operate as it did in years past. There was a time when FEMA understood that the correct approach to a crisis was to deploy to the affected area as many resources as possible as fast as possible. Unfortunately, that no longer seems to be their approach," Landrieu said. "In order to resolve this dire situation, we must return to the successful tactics of the past. The suffering has gone on long enough. Now is the time for action."

Just like the good ol' orange CalTrans sign says as you sit in bumper-to-bumper traffic as four lanes merge into two during the busiest times of the commuting day, while two guys are sipping coffee while the third one is actually operating the machinery: "Your tax dollars hard at work"

by LowcountryJoe on Sep 5, 2005 6:02 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

That article didnt say FEMA was unable to help

because we are Iraq but rather than they are focused on terrorism prevention which is understandable considering we were attacked and are in plans to be attacked again. Its just an unfortunate circumstance of 9/11.

by SanTropez on Sep 5, 2005 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

The levees were supposed to be protected!

After 9/11, the levees were identified as a big glaring weakness in the homeland security situation. If Bush is protecting us from attack, why was the situation not fixed?

To clarify, we all know he couldn't have stopped a hurricane. But he could have, I don't know, maybe come back from holidays for it BEFORE people started dying?

by Ozzz on Sep 5, 2005 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh, that was in repsonse to this...

the first comment that you make on the first link, is a big "FU". and that was probably your most well reasoned arguement.

...just in case you're wondering how my first reply seemed to come out of nowhere.

Recalling that novaoakland's first response on the thread in question was this:

Blaiming the government is such a BS response to this crap!!!

by LowcountryJoe on Sep 5, 2005 6:10 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

i meant..

that the hostility showed by writing "FU", was more well reasoned than his wrongheaded comments that you can't blame the government. i agree with you lcjoe..

by danh on Sep 5, 2005 9:05 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

as someone who agrees with you

and was also disappointed by all the shameless and opportunistic partisan nonsense relating to the recent tragedy, your response was just as bad, if not worse. the badly thought out and expressed arguments and personal attacks didn't make you look any better than the people you were criticizing (that was also the case when you went after mychael urban earlier).

and i even disagree with your point about free speech. i shouldn't say "disagree": you're actually just wrong. there is no free speech on AN. this isn't the united states of america, it's an oakland a's fan blog on the internet, run by blez. it operates under certain rules that do not permit free speech. for example, unlike on AN, if an angels fan mocks an a's fan in the real world, the government can't just ban them from expressing their opinions.

from the FAQ:
------
Also, please keep personal political beliefs away from Athletics Nation. While this isn't a banning offense, it isn't healthy to inspire good baseball talk. If someone continues to bring political beliefs to the site, they may eventually get banned. There are plenty of blogs out there that discuss politics, AN wasn't created for that reason. I don't ever want to ban anyone from the site, so when you feel yourself getting emotional or getting ready to attack someone, pause and take a deep breath and remember, "They are an A's fan too."
------

the first part may apply to many of the poeple you are upset with, but the second part applies to you and your personal attacks.

If I weren't playing baseball, I'd be... "in the Ultimate Fighting Championship." -Rich Harden

by xbhaskarx on Sep 4, 2005 10:41 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Sorry to hear you go

because of the opinions of a few people. If you want the come back, the door is always open.

Sniff, Sniff. "Who Fongpay?"

by Fongpay on Sep 4, 2005 11:03 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

oh so overdramatic.

get over it, keep posting. you can feel free to ignore anyone that you don't agree with. this is America, people can have a different opinion then you without people getting all flustered and leaving.

the level of discourse in this country has disintergrated into nothingness.

when did all this agree with me or hit the road s#$% come about. I have numerous friends/families that disagree with my liberal libertarians. so what. we can have different opinions because we grew up differently. we are shaped differently from our experiences. IT'S OK. goodness.

but sorry if my eyes are rolling because you got in a huff over you supporting the President over the hurricane situation and others disagreeing. IT'S OK. rise over it if you perceive it as classless.

a truly homogenized nation with no conflicting opinions would be an end to the beauty that is America.

now get your butt back here to posting. A's for life.

by jayho on Sep 4, 2005 11:17 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Yes, jayho,

but I recall that you thought OAFC was tolerant whereas AN is intolerant. Gotta disagree with you on that one.

Let us not continue to debate how many Angels can be dashed on the head of a pin. Let's just get to it while the gettin' is good.

by Checkswing HR on Sep 5, 2005 4:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

If Macha was comander in chief!

Who would do a better job during the Katrina Crisis, Bush or Macha? I know a lot of people would probably complain about Macha's use of substitition, he should have used the well equiped army air cavalry instead he uses a washed up left handed artillery brigade. Instead of saving people they just make matters worse by destroying more levees. Maybe AN's would complain his lineup cards don't maximize crisis control. He puts buses before repair crews before supply trucks with charity organziations batting cleanup. Everybody knows charity organizations have a higher obp, they should lead off. What if Macha in response to an A's crisis told people don't worry just send more cash, that will solve the problems.

"The game was closer than the score indicated" - Dizzy Dean after a 1-0 game

by broncobert on Sep 4, 2005 11:22 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

If Macha

were in charge of the disaster response, he would have led off by sending Jason Kendall, and everyone would have gotten out.

Nico

by Nico on Sep 5, 2005 8:11 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

If Kendall was trying to throw out the flood

Wouldn't everyone have been safe?

A Beane in the hand is worth $60M in payroll

by jeepers on Sep 5, 2005 9:26 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Quote of the month material, those two posts.

Though a tad risque.

Let us not continue to debate how many Angels can be dashed on the head of a pin. Let's just get to it while the gettin' is good.

by Checkswing HR on Sep 5, 2005 4:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Humor is my coping mechanism

For some it's anger, others fear, others sadness. Hope no one was offended.

A Beane in the hand is worth $60M in payroll

by jeepers on Sep 6, 2005 9:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don't get it...

While Americans die in Iraq and here at home it apparently is more acceptable to preach hatred than hope, blame than faith.

How did devo and oaktoon preach hate?

All they did was voice some frustrations on how the situation in New Orleans was being handled and some social commentary that was slightly partisan. They didn't attack Bush, but from their vocabulary you could easily deduce their "blue-ness."

How is this hate? I don't see it.

Was it political, yes. Was it inappropriate? Not really, because I think a discussion about this tragedy is relavant. Baseball is only a game, win or lose A's make the playoff or not, it doesn't really matter because there's issues of life and death going on in Gulf Coast, and eslewhere.

Baseball, no matter how attached I am to it, is only a diversion from "real life."

Those diaries gave us a brief step back and a look at the big picture.

And youn know what I refuse to have a pollyanna attitude about the A's just like I refuse to have a pollyanna attitude about my country that I love so dear. America has made mistakes, America will continue to make mistake, no matter who's in the White House; Republican, Democrat or some third party (fat chance). Why? It's because the government made by people and people make mistakes, it's only human.

"Damn kids" -Ron Flores

by secret ASian man on Sep 4, 2005 11:24 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

why can't people understand

its ok to disagree and move on. goodness.

i'm waiting for fools to start knifing each other on political disagreements.

we are heading for some Taiwan like political atmosphere with chairs being thrown, canes being swung, etc etc.

ridiculous.

by jayho on Sep 4, 2005 11:26 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Canes were once swung in Congress

A congressman assualted another congressman with a cane. This was right before the Civil War:

Assault by Congressman Brooks
In 1856, at the very time when "border ruffians" were drawing their lines closer about the doomed town of Lawrence, Kansas, Sumner in the Senate (May 19-20) laid bare the "Crime against Kansas." He denounced the Kansas-Nebraska Act as in every respect a swindle, and held its authors, Stephen A. Douglas and Andrew P. Butler, up to the scorn of the world as the Don Quixote and Sancho Panza of "the harlot, Slavery." The speech contained several mocking references to a speech impediment of Butler, who had suffered a stroke causing the disability. Two days later (May 22) Preston S. Brooks, a congressman from South Carolina and a kinsman of Butler, confronted Sumner as he sat writing at his desk in the Senate chamber, denounced his speech as a libel upon his state and upon Butler, and proceeded to beat Sumner unconscious with his walking stick. That attack prevented Sumner from attending the Senate for the subsequent three years. Massachusetts loyally reelected him, in the belief that in the Senate chamber his vacant chair was the most eloquent pleader for free speech and resistance to slavery.
From the wikipedia article on Charles Sumner

We've been down that road before.

"Damn kids" -Ron Flores

by secret ASian man on Sep 4, 2005 11:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

The thing about the Civil war

is that it really wasn't so civil at all. Lots of blood and death and stuff, hardly fit for a proper lady or polite company.

Nico

by Nico on Sep 5, 2005 8:10 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Bye!

by Brian in 317 on Sep 5, 2005 8:19 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

AN?????????

I have not visited in a while and I can again see why. I thought I was logging on to A's Nation what does any of this political B/S have to do with the A's or even baseball. Goodness knows there must be a million outlets right now for Katrina opnions why bring all that to a site supposedly about A's baseball??? Maybe I can go to a political debate site and talk A's baseball??? Think I would get some play????

by asfanfordays on Sep 5, 2005 8:30 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Because this disaster is so awful

That talking about it doesn't know any limits.

A Beane in the hand is worth $60M in payroll

by jeepers on Sep 5, 2005 9:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Frankly, it should be clear that novaokland left

AN because he couldn't respond with a reasoned rejoinder to those criticizing the Administration. Thus, tantrum-like, he picked up his arguments of clay and departed.

Novaoakland simply couldn't do the impossible: defend the ineptitude of a president and his appointees who sat on their hands while in American--not the Third World--people drowned, people starved, and people perished for no good reason. There are no words that adequately describe this untenable situation, although "criminal" comes closest...

by reztips on Sep 5, 2005 8:47 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I agree with reztips

again.
Wow.

Nova got upset because people were all over Bush because of his lack of response to this horrid disaster. Whether that is fair or not (I do agree with the critism of bush but that is beside my point) Nova responded with name calling and other Argumentum ad hominem fallacies.

Look Nova, people are not always going to agree with you. You can either ignore the people who disagree or you can counter their arguement. "FUCK YOU" is not appropiate. Get over it. People disagree.

Kendall Haiku by FormerHuntsvilleStar, " Ball in hand, a leap,--- a veteran catcher blocks--- and secures a win"

by Athletics fan and runner on Sep 5, 2005 9:01 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I also agree with Reztips

I just hope we're not looking at a few months of incessant BushBrains or Bumblin' Bushie quotes.

A Beane in the hand is worth $60M in payroll

by jeepers on Sep 5, 2005 10:35 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Golf clap

This isn't a political situation. If Clinton had allowed a situation like this to happen, I'd have been grabbing pitchforks and marching to Little Rock.

It's not a Democrat vs Republican thing, it's a "how on earth do you put a lawyer in charge of FEMA, stay on holidays while people are drowning, refuse aid from countries, refuse to allow foreign aid workers to enter the country, and turn away rescue workers for FIVE DAYS while people are dying" thing.

by Ozzz on Sep 5, 2005 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

So much complaining about what could been done...

Coulda, shoulda, woulda....yes, we can all look back and say FEMA should have done this, Bush should've done that, the people could've done this, but let's face it folks, we can't turn back time. All we can do is to move forward.

I urge everyone (not just AN) to get out there and help in whatever way you can. Financially, sure, but what else can you do? Donate blood. Volunteer at a Red Cross call center (there are two in California - Oakland and San Diego. They are in need of help.) Help families who have been relocated to your area. Help families and friends who may be going to the south to help out. Participate in the process of helping the Gulf Coast recover, by vowing to return to these battered cities someday as a resident, as a tourist, or in some way to help their recovery.

That's my two cents worth...

There's no crying in baseball!

by gigglingone on Sep 5, 2005 10:53 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

yes, this is true

We need to move forward. But part of that is realizing that things were done wrong--and holding people accountable.

The Giants are printing playoff tickets. No, thats not a line from Comedy Central---Glenn Dickey

by Alien on Sep 5, 2005 10:59 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

While I agree with that,

The focus now should be on helping those in need. After we can get food, shelter, clothing, etc., to those who need it, and help people get some sort of normalcy to their lives again, then we can go back and systematically look through what happened and what didn't. Right now is not the time to place blame, when there are still people needing rescuing and healthcare.

There's no crying in baseball!

by gigglingone on Sep 5, 2005 11:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

My only comment:

helping those in need and holding others suitably accountable are not mutually exclusive. Both are necessary to get a state and a country back on track.

Nico

by Nico on Sep 5, 2005 1:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Absolutely.

I wonder if the same people would have been saying, after 9/11, "now isn't the time to hold people accountable, now is the time to rebuild."

Hell no. Now is EXACTLY the time to hold people accountable. Why give them months to get their stories straight, shred documents and pull political strings to save their ass?

Someone, perhaps many people, are responsible for 10,000 dead Americans - 3 x 9/11. And those people need to be removed NOW, before they do any more damage.

President, director of FEMA, local deputy - I don't care who it is. I just know that 'moving on' isn't something you do until you've learned who was responsible, dealt with them accordingly, and made sure it never happens again.

by Ozzz on Sep 5, 2005 4:07 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

it's good to see that least some people

from a certain side of the political spectrum are focusing on helping those in need instead of placing blame. even if it's with their personal photographers along for the ride on small leaky boats....

Movie star and political activist Penn, 45, was in the collapsing city to aid stranded victims of flooding sparked by Hurricane Katrina, but the small boat he was piloting to launch a rescue attempt sprang a leak.

The outspoken actor had planned to rescue children waylaid by the deadly waters, but apparently forgot to plug a hole in the bottom of the vessel, which began taking water within seconds of its launch.

When the boat's motor failed to start, those aboard were forced to use paddles to propel themselves down the flooded New Orleans street.

Asked what he had hoped to achieve in the waterlogged city, the actor replied: "Whatever I can do to help."

But with the boat loaded with members of the Oscar-winner's entourage, including his personal photographer, one bystander taunted: "How are you going to get any people in that thing?"

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20050904/ts_alt_afp/usweathercelebrities_050904224436

If I weren't playing baseball, I'd be... "in the Ultimate Fighting Championship." -Rich Harden

by xbhaskarx on Sep 5, 2005 1:35 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

photo

maybe if the boat had fewer members of sean's entourage on board, it wouldn't have taken in so much water...

US actor Sean Penn bales water out of a boat with a plastic cup as he and members of his entourage make an attempt to rescue stranded people in New Orleans. Efforts by Penn to aid New Orleans victims stranded by Hurricane Katrina foundered badly Sunday, when the boat he was piloting to launch a rescue attempt sprang a leak. Penn had planned to rescue children waylaid by Katrina's flood waters, but apparently forgot to plug a hole in the bottom of the vessel, which began taking water within seconds of its launch.
(AFP/Nicholas Kamm)

If I weren't playing baseball, I'd be... "in the Ultimate Fighting Championship." -Rich Harden

by xbhaskarx on Sep 5, 2005 1:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bye-bye Nova

On behalf of Canada we will miss your insightful and educated comments regarding our foreign policies.

the mind is a terrible thing to taste.

by easyrichboy on Sep 5, 2005 2:58 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

The mark of a man...

...is whether or not he'll be missed when he's gone. Personally, I'm not sure how many people will miss this:

Where is canada with all there help? You people are amazing. Shit happens it is not all about blame. you have a city that was built below sealevel. It was a matter of time.

Why are canadians such pussy Why are you not in Iraq.

And of course, this beauty:

FUCK YOU. Blaiming the government is such a BS response to this crap!!!

Where, oh where, will insight come from with Nova gone?

by Ozzz on Sep 5, 2005 4:11 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Ah, now I know where the wisdom will come from.

You are an anti-American prick. Stay away from my national past time. Go play hockey and let the world die while you do nothing.

That's what Nova left on my blog today. Helluva guy.

The irony is that the only people in the world dying in large numbers right now are in Iraq and New Orleans.

And the guy he voted for is responsible for both.

by Ozzz on Sep 5, 2005 4:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

in fairness to novaoakland

i think canada's foreign policy would be quite different if it wasn't for its geographic location (next to the US).
of course same goes for ireland (UK), new zealand (australia), etc...

maybe next a swiss ANer will come on here and tell us how it is

If I weren't playing baseball, I'd be... "in the Ultimate Fighting Championship." -Rich Harden

by xbhaskarx on Sep 5, 2005 5:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

and if it wasn't perfectly clear

i don't mean specifically relating to any conflict, third contry, etc. but general posture.

If I weren't playing baseball, I'd be... "in the Ultimate Fighting Championship." -Rich Harden

by xbhaskarx on Sep 5, 2005 5:49 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

No matter where Canada was geographically...

..I can guarantee you that they'd never invade a country that was no threat to them.

Nor would they lie to the population that said country had WMD if they didn't. Nor would they lie that said country had connections to Al Queda if it didn't.

So when is Bin Laden's arrest supposed to happen, anyway? I mean, it's been four years now and he's STILL out there.

by Ozzz on Sep 5, 2005 11:33 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

sing it!

the mind is a terrible thing to taste.

by easyrichboy on Sep 6, 2005 5:04 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

no US

and you would be writing that in russia, comerade.

If I weren't playing baseball, I'd be... "in the Ultimate Fighting Championship." -Rich Harden

by xbhaskarx on Sep 7, 2005 1:24 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Riiiiight.

And we'd all be talking German and eating Chinese.

No western country has ever been able to exist without the US' help.

Oh, except Australia. New Zealand. South Africa. Ireland. Sweden. Switzerland...

Zzz... Take the flag off your SUV and start paying attention to the real world. It's okay to ask whether or not your President is the right man for the job. That's at the very heart of democracy.

It's when you automatically follow everything the President says, and call anyone who questions him a coward, that's when you lose the right to call your nation democratic.

by Ozzz on Sep 7, 2005 1:58 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

i drive a prius

what kind of gas mileage do you get? yeah, i thought so.

i'm confused, i was contrasting australia, uk, etc. with countries like canada, new zealand, ireland.

my point continues to be that you canadians benefit from your geographic location, it shields you from having to deal with foreign policy issues that face some other nations.

you response, regarding whether or not WMDs have been found doesn't really seem all that relevant to this general foreign policy question but a knee-jerk response to anything having to do with the US and foreign policy... "uh.. no WMDs!"

"And we'd all be talking German and eating Chinese."
no, most of the people in continental europe would be speaking german for sure, but not canada. i don't know who would be eating/speaking chinese, taiwan i guess, but many people there already do. south korea would be speaking korean whether they were independent or part of north korea.

but back to you canadians, you are protected from invasion throughout the cold war by your location, otherwise what would keep you from ending up like poland or afghanistan?

if not for the US, how big would your defense budget have been? size of the military? how much would you have spent on the development of new military technology if you weren't relying on us/uk equipment? would you have developed nuclear weapons if you weren't protected from invasion by american nukes?

i noticed australia is sending $10 million dollars in response to the hurricane. what about your government up there in canada?

with friends like these...

If I weren't playing baseball, I'd be... "in the Ultimate Fighting Championship." -Rich Harden

by xbhaskarx on Sep 7, 2005 2:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

My mileage? Zero. I walk, thanks very much.

And what has Canada done for the relief effort? See for yourself, with this first hand account from someone in St Bernard Parish, as seen on WWLTV.com:

10:47 A.M. - Rodriguez: We had Canadian mounties here by the second day, and the government wasn't here. We had no communications, and I think if you don't hear from an entire parish in two days, you go see what's going on.

To answer your specific questions:

How much would we spend on defense if the US wasn't nearby? Actually, less than what Bush wants us to spend. If you recall, the Canadians refused to take part in the missile shield program, which would have requried billions of dollars from us, because it's bogus and stupid. You might also recall that in the Afghanistan conflict, Canadian troops died only when Americans bombed them by mistake. Same thing happened in Gulf War I. And in actual fact, Canada spends more on defense than Australia, which is protected by the US in no way, shape or form, so your assertion that the US gives Canada a free ride is complete garbage.
Would Russia have invaded a US-free Canada? Gee, I dunno, did they invade Greenland? Iceland? Sweden? Neither of those countries have a whole lot of connection to the US, do they?
The US didn't stop the Germans. The Russians did. Learn your history.
The only foreign policy issue that you're reqally involved with right now is empire expansion and pre-emptive invasion. Some countries don't like it. Some hate it. Some choose to bomb you for it. Stop doing it and you wouldn't hear boo from terrorists.

Contrary to what you've been fed - nobody in the entire world wakes up in the morning and says to themselves, "Man, I hate freedom so much, I think I'm going to blow myself up to prevent it from happening."

Nobody. Look deeper, and risk the chance that you won't like what you find.

by Ozzz on Sep 7, 2005 10:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

the blame game

from the Washington Post:

Behind the scenes, a power struggle emerged, as federal officials tried to wrest authority from Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco (D). Shortly before midnight Friday, the Bush administration sent her a proposed legal memorandum asking her to request a federal takeover of the evacuation of New Orleans, a source within the state's emergency operations center said Saturday.

The administration sought unified control over all local police and state National Guard units reporting to the governor. Louisiana officials rejected the request after talks throughout the night, concerned that such a move would be comparable to a federal declaration of martial law. Some officials in the state suspected a political motive behind the request. "Quite frankly, if they'd been able to pull off taking it away from the locals, they then could have blamed everything on the locals," said the source, who does not have the authority to speak publicly.

A senior administration official said that Bush has clear legal authority to federalize National Guard units to quell civil disturbances under the Insurrection Act and will continue to try to unify the chains of command that are split among the president, the Louisiana governor and the New Orleans mayor.

Louisiana did not reach out to a multi-state mutual aid compact for assistance until Wednesday, three state and federal officials said. As of Saturday, Blanco still had not declared a state of emergency, the senior Bush official said.

"The federal government stands ready to work with state and local officials to secure New Orleans and the state of Louisiana," White House spokesman Dan Bartlett said. "The president will not let any form of bureaucracy get in the way of protecting the citizens of Louisiana."

Blanco made two moves Saturday that protected her independence from the federal government: She created a philanthropic fund for the state's victims and hired James Lee Witt, Federal Emergency Management Agency director in the Clinton administration, to advise her on the relief effort.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/09/03/AR2005090301680.html

If I weren't playing baseball, I'd be... "in the Ultimate Fighting Championship." -Rich Harden

by xbhaskarx on Sep 5, 2005 11:15 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Um, dude...

You might want to check a later edition of that same day's Washington Post, which contains the retraction where they admit that Blanco actually called a State of Emergency a week ago.

The story you copied here is total BS that has already been backed away from by The Post. And though I'm sure the blogs you found it on don't do a whole lot of retracting themselves if it helps spread lies about someone they don't like, the reality is what you cut n' pasted above has no basis in fact.

But in case you can't find the retraction, here's the skinny:

As noted, the Washington Post got burned today by a "senior Bush official" who told them that Gov. Blanco of Louisiana had never declared a state of emergency in the site -- a claim the Post printed as fact. Yet the claim was demonstrably false and by late afternoon the Post had been compelled to print a correction.

This week's Newsweek contains the same false claim -- and though their recital of the anecdote is unsourced, common sense suggests that someone or some operation fed them both the same line, which neither organization checked out before running.

Monday's Times, not surprisingly, confirms that the White House damage control operation is being run by Karl Rove and Dan Bartlett.

By all means, look for the other side of the argument, but don't fall into the trap of reciting Republican talking points and believing they're the truth, man.

by Ozzz on Sep 5, 2005 11:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

wow, that retraction changes EVERYTHING!!

the retraction only concerns one line of the story, not the whole article. here's the same story MINUS the ONE SENTENCE. does that look much better?

ps you write of "talking points" but you're the one citing a liberal blog, ironically one named "talking points memo". all i did was post from a washington post article (i believe they endorsed kerry, by the way).

---------------------
Behind the scenes, a power struggle emerged, as federal officials tried to wrest authority from Louisiana Gov. Kathleen Babineaux Blanco (D). Shortly before midnight Friday, the Bush administration sent her a proposed legal memorandum asking her to request a federal takeover of the evacuation of New Orleans, a source within the state's emergency operations center said Saturday.

The administration sought unified control over all local police and state National Guard units reporting to the governor. Louisiana officials rejected the request after talks throughout the night, concerned that such a move would be comparable to a federal declaration of martial law. Some officials in the state suspected a political motive behind the request. "Quite frankly, if they'd been able to pull off taking it away from the locals, they then could have blamed everything on the locals," said the source, who does not have the authority to speak publicly.

A senior administration official said that Bush has clear legal authority to federalize National Guard units to quell civil disturbances under the Insurrection Act and will continue to try to unify the chains of command that are split among the president, the Louisiana governor and the New Orleans mayor.

Louisiana did not reach out to a multi-state mutual aid compact for assistance until Wednesday, three state and federal officials said. [retracted sentence]

"The federal government stands ready to work with state and local officials to secure New Orleans and the state of Louisiana," White House spokesman Dan Bartlett said. "The president will not let any form of bureaucracy get in the way of protecting the citizens of Louisiana."

Blanco made two moves Saturday that protected her independence from the federal government: She created a philanthropic fund for the state's victims and hired James Lee Witt, Federal Emergency Management Agency director in the Clinton administration, to advise her on the relief effort.

If I weren't playing baseball, I'd be... "in the Ultimate Fighting Championship." -Rich Harden

by xbhaskarx on Sep 7, 2005 1:32 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Are you kidding me?

It changes EVERYTHING.

Bush is pushing the state and local governments stopped him from being able to get emergency people in there, and that without the State of Emergency call, they couldn't have sent people in if they wanted to.

And that's BS.

Yes, the blog I linked to is called Talking Points Memo. And they linked to the Washington Post retraction. Do I really need to do all the math for you?

by Ozzz on Sep 7, 2005 1:55 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

and my point is

they didn't retract the rest of the article.

If I weren't playing baseball, I'd be... "in the Ultimate Fighting Championship." -Rich Harden

by xbhaskarx on Sep 7, 2005 2:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

i don't think you get it

"don't fall into the trap of reciting Republican talking points"

the IRONY is that you're pasting stuff from talking points memo, which is Democratic talking points.

yet you wrote the above in response to my post, which was just a news article from the goddamn washington post.

do you fail to see the humor in this???

If I weren't playing baseball, I'd be... "in the Ultimate Fighting Championship." -Rich Harden

by xbhaskarx on Sep 7, 2005 2:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yes. I fail to see the humor in this.

First, TPM is not Democratic Talking Points, it's called that because the US Government revolves around Republican Talking Points. They post them online and fax them out each day, and the right wing noise machine parrots them entirely until the next page is shot out by Ken Mehlman.

That blog is devoted to debunking them, not pushing similarly erroneous efforts from the other side. And when they highlighted the Washington Post's obvious mistake, which you parroted by copying it here as if it were true, I responded with a retraction from the exact same paper you used as a source.

The article was wrong. A thinking man would admit as much and stop trying to place blame on the peoplpe who were actually on the ground, over those who stayed on holiday.

by Ozzz on Sep 7, 2005 10:41 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

HMMMM

I don't get it at all, I mean are we having a going away party or not?

"What I'm trying to do is set our pitching up for five years," said Beane

by Satchmo22 on Sep 6, 2005 9:24 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Let me get this straight

Devo writes a diary basically saying how he really appreciates that AN is a community where those of all different viewpoints on topics (baseball or otherwise) can come together and have rational, respectful discourse. Your response to this diary was "FUCK YOU." And now you're saying that AN is a place that "promotes hate" and you don't feel comfortable "being associated" with that. Novaoakland, you were (and frequently have been) the perpetrator of venom and hate on this site and this diary is utter hypocrisy.

"Don't be an ass!" --Bill King

by batgirl on Sep 6, 2005 11:35 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs