Who will be gone next year?

by robertmelvin on Sep 20, 2005 11:57 PM PDT

By my rough count there were 8 players long gone at the beginning of '05 from those who ended the year with the A's in '04 (excluding Sept call ups).

It is never to early to start thinking ahead to Game No. 1 in 2006. I predict that the goners will be:

Easy ones: Ginter, Rincon and Yabu

Not so easy, but gone: Hatteberg, Kielty, Melhouse and Witasick

Difficult to say good bye to, but till gone: NONE

For a total of 7 players.

Oh, I almost forget: Ken Macha will also be gone, and will be comuting to work from his home for 81 games next year.

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Leaving Players...

Durazo
Dotel
Witasick
Hatteberg
Payton
Rincon
Ginter
Melhuse
Kielty
Yabu

An Optimist belives there is a light at the end of the tunnel. A Pessimist knows there isn't.

by Zonis on Sep 21, 2005 12:18 AM PDT reply actions

wow

we don't resign any of them. Why not? Is Melhuse going to command a huge raise? Payton is a bargain at 4 mil/season. Witasick could be resigned if the price is right.

The most curious name not mentioned is Zito.

Two-thirds of the earth is covered by water, the other third is covered by Kotsay.

by carp on Sep 21, 2005 9:23 AM PDT up reply actions

Pitchers

assuming that Zito does not get traded, then one of the Kennedy-Cruz duo will be gone via trade.

I don't see both Payton and Kielty being gone-- one or the other instead.

oaktoon

by oaktoon on Sep 21, 2005 12:21 AM PDT reply actions

I think Payton stays but we won't pick up his option, but try to sign him to a 2 year deal. I might be crazy, but I think Ginter will still be here.
Kielty would be a nice platoon player against lefties ONLY.

by china bob on Sep 21, 2005 12:40 AM PDT up reply actions

How are we gonna get rid of Ginter?...

No way do we release him, and hopefully he's next year's Kielty. Which brings us to Booby K, how will we get rid of him? I'm pretty sure he has an option. I also think Payton will be gone personally. And I don't know if you're counting Dotel/Durazo (I would like to see both signed for incentive-laden contracts but think that is unlikely). The more intersting thing this offseason will be the newcomers. Will Z be traded, what new chips will come to our offense, will BB make other unexpected trades? the answers are all in next year's episode of Offseason: Stars are gone, and A's are subsequently underdogs.

"The difference between Jose Canseco and Kobe Bryant is that Kobe doesn't believe in giving his teammates any shots." -Jay Leno

by vignette17 on Sep 21, 2005 12:22 AM PDT reply actions

I can't wait for BB's winter follies.

by china bob on Sep 21, 2005 12:41 AM PDT up reply actions

Hank Greenwald and Jerry Brown

by southofcruiseamerica on Sep 21, 2005 12:24 AM PDT reply actions

I for one

hope we keep payton and kielty. as they both have value, keitly for crushing lefties and payton can play center. i also hope we keep witasick, he'll still be cheap, and we can definitely afford him. I also would take a flyer on dotel, as he is on record for saying that he would play for free next year. as for the kennedy-cruz debate, i take kennedy simply because hes a lefty. and I'm starting a new trend, FIRE GREENWALD NOW

"If you're important, people will wait." - Chili

by apocalyptica @ Athletics Nation on Sep 21, 2005 2:54 AM PDT reply actions

Zito, Chavez, and...

...any other one to two players on the roster (or small cash considerations in lieu of) not named Street, Harden, Haren, Blanton, Street, Duchsherer, Ellis, or Crosby FOR Peavy, Giles, and Burroughs.

by LowcountryJoe on Sep 21, 2005 5:18 AM PDT reply actions

Hahaha...ridiculous

SD aint dealing Peavy. And Giles is a free agent, they cant deal him.

Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Sep 21, 2005 9:42 AM PDT up reply actions

... and ...

... for anyone who thinks Chavez has been a bust (just to be clear, I don't), Burroughs has been even worse in terms of performance vs expectations.

put down the stick, and quit swearing -- MobiusKlein

by monkeyball on Sep 21, 2005 10:01 AM PDT up reply actions

i expect dotel back...

...he already offered to pitch for the a's for free in '06.

plus, i'm not expecting "foolish" back either...he'ii soon been paying up big time or we'ii never hear from him again.

We're not dunderheads here...

by bigelephant on Sep 21, 2005 6:02 AM PDT reply actions

Dotel isnt playing for free or for real cheap...

The Players Union would never let him do it.

Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Sep 21, 2005 9:43 AM PDT up reply actions

what he could do

is sign a really cheap, all-incentive deal, and make the incentives hard to attain, like a bonus for 40 saves when he won't even be our closer or 100 IP like we're going to send him out there every day to test out that surgically repaired elbow...see Ricky Williams' rookie contract with the Saints, Master P (yeah, he was his agent) got him a deal that could've been a rookie max if he rushed for like 1,600 yards every year in his first few years but instead paid him pretty much the minimum...combine that contract and the 8 mill he owed the Dolphins and I can see why he's no longer hanging out in NorCal.

Rock over London, Rock on Oakland. Wheaties: It's the Breakfast of Champions.

by Cutthemullet on Sep 21, 2005 10:19 AM PDT up reply actions

dude,

i was just reminding OD of his brave pronouncement that he'd consider playing for free for the a's next yr because he felt bad getting hurt. of course the PA would never accept it. can you envision a player playing for less then the minimum because of some of type of altruistric purpose!

We're not dunderheads here...

by bigelephant on Sep 21, 2005 10:39 AM PDT up reply actions

Actually

I expect back out of the potential leavers:

Witasick (likes it here and will re sign)
Dotel (play for cheap)
Ginter (next years Kielty)
Either Kielty or Payton. Payton has a 4 million option, Kielty is in Arby i think. Beane will choose one of them. If he pulls a trade for Carlos Lee (please billy!) then both are gone i think. Kielty, Cruz and Jason Windsor? What do you think Brewers?

Leaving:

Hatty
Rincon
Yabu
Durazo
Melhuse

Now, there are a few options. Like re signing Durazo on the cheap as our DH again, and choosing between Kielty and Payton.

If we resign witasick and Dotel. Boy oh boy, look at this pen.

Long relief: Sarloos/Kennedy (whichever is not starting. Sarloos probably starts)
Middle Relief: Witasick, Calero, Duke
Set up: Dotel, Duke Calero, Witasick
Lefty: Ron Flores
Closer: Street

Oh boy!

I can't wait until wintertime either! Thats not to say that i'd rather just skip the rest of the season....

I don't know what i'm writing about.

by ohad on Sep 21, 2005 6:49 AM PDT reply actions

Pretty close to what I'd do.

The only thing I'd change is the package for Lee. I think Kielty, Cruz, and Garcia might get the job done. If not, throw in either Robnett or Putnam as we have quite a few OF's in the system.

2B Ellis
C Kendall
3B Chavez
DH Lee
CF Kotsay
SS Crosby
1B DJ
LF Payton
RF Swisher

Less pressure on Croz, Swish, and DJ this way. I'd bring back Durazo on the cheap. He provides LH power off the bench, and if any of the OF's or DJ need a day off Durazo's the DH and Lee plays LF. Payton covers for Swish or Kots and Swish covers DJ. Ginter, Scoot, and Melhuse or Brown round out the bench.

Zito
Harden
Blanton
Haren
Kennedy

Saarloos "Long Relief/Groundball Machine"
Flores "Lefty"
Dotel "Mopup/Middle Relief"
Duke, Calero, and Witasick "Middle Relief/Setup"
Street "Lights out"

If Durazo regains his form, we either have a strong bench or trade him for solid talent. As much as I would like to see Barton and Ethier soon, we might as well try something else first and give them a little more time.

...it's like an angry mob confronting a deaf-mute who is signing curse words at them.-Monkeyball

by gatling on Sep 21, 2005 9:25 AM PDT up reply actions

Carlos Lee

why would he be traded a year after they acquired him? The logjam there appears to be at 1B, seems like if the Brewers trade anyone this offseason it would be Overbay. Plus, do we want to pay Lee?

Rock over London, Rock on Oakland. Wheaties: It's the Breakfast of Champions.

by Cutthemullet on Sep 21, 2005 9:29 AM PDT up reply actions

Don't you think he provides

what is lacking in this offense? We need a thumper out there. What Lee would cost is less than what we gain by losing Kielty, Hatty, Yabu, Rincon, and the drastic drop in salary for Durazo and Dotel. The thought behind trading Lee is Corey Hart needs a place to play, and he can't play 3B effectively. Trading Lee for pitching/future CF(Robnett/Putnam) allows Doug Melvin the luxury of moving Overbay for a 3B and/or more pitching. If there is one pitching coach this side of Leo Mazzone who could have alot of success with Cruz and Garcia, I'd say it's Mike Maddux in Milwaukee.

The Brewers lose offense in Lee and Overbay, but it's likely to be made up by Fielder, Hart, a full year of Rickie Weeks, and a better year by JJ Hardy. That doesn't include whomever they could pickup at 3B.

...it's like an angry mob confronting a deaf-mute who is signing curse words at them.-Monkeyball

by gatling on Sep 21, 2005 9:45 AM PDT up reply actions

Brewers' 3B...and C

I don't really know what their plan is, but wouldn't it make sense for them to play Bill Hall at 3B, with Weeks at 2B and Hardy at SS?

Come to think of it, if they need to make room for Fielder at 1B and this guy Hart, with whom I'm only vaguely familiar, at corner OF, and with Damian Miller playing maybe one more year for them, I wonder about a Kendall + prospect(s) for Jenkins + Overbay type deal (doubt Lee could replace either)...thoughts?

Rock over London, Rock on Oakland. Wheaties: It's the Breakfast of Champions.

by Cutthemullet on Sep 21, 2005 10:13 AM PDT up reply actions

Maybe, maybe not.

I would look at Hall more as an insurance plan for 2B/3B/SS, covering injuries or playing SS if Hardy can't keep hitting like he is this month. I absolutely wouldn't want to see Geoff Jenkins on this team, he's too injury prone and older than Lee. Overbay would be nice, but that creates a bigger logjam at 1B for us. I doubt they would take on Kendall, and even if they would, I don't want to see him moved. He brings too much to this team that is immeasurable. Maybe a package of Powell(if healthy), Putnam/Robnett, Garcia, and Cruz would be acceptable, as they need a future CF and C, and who doesn't need pitching?(Besides us, I mean)

...it's like an angry mob confronting a deaf-mute who is signing curse words at them.-Monkeyball

by gatling on Sep 21, 2005 11:03 AM PDT up reply actions

They arent trading Carlos Lee..

Why would they....They think they can compete next year with all the young guys finally coming.

Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Sep 21, 2005 9:43 AM PDT up reply actions

Keith Ginter

Its hard for me to imagine him staying, for a couple of reasons.

Ellis, obviously, has won the starting job back. He's really not an injury risk, and he'll likely play 150+ games next year. His backup will be Marco Scutaro, because he's versatile and can play an adequate shortstop---which he's likely to have to do at some point next year.
Despite Ginter's crappy year, he has too much of a track record to be a sixth infielder--he'd never play. Plus, I believe he's eligible for arby, and I can't imagine the A's paying anything more than the minimum for a sixth infielder--unless he's an experienced veteran.
Ginter wants out bad. He's said so--and I think Beane will oblige. He won't get much for him--but he didn't really give up much so who cares. Ginter is different from Kielty because the A's had more of an opening in the outfield this year than they will in the infield next year.

by Alien @ Athletics Nation on Sep 21, 2005 9:50 AM PDT reply actions

I agree

Ginter will be gone, unless Beane decides Ellis' year was a fluke and trades him at peak value (doubtful). I believe Ginter has a year left on his contract at $1.5mm. I would think Beane could find a National League team willing to bet that amount plus a marginal prospect that Ginter could find his 2004 form back in the NL.

"Young, cheap and talented is the best way to go through life, son." --Dean Beane

by dylantravis on Sep 21, 2005 9:59 AM PDT up reply actions

to LA not of A, perhaps

if Kent is traded, as he should be (some have suggested to us, even), Dodgers could take a chance on Ginter, play him next to Saenz on the ultimate A's retread squad

Rock over London, Rock on Oakland. Wheaties: It's the Breakfast of Champions.

by Cutthemullet on Sep 21, 2005 10:25 AM PDT up reply actions

I don't know.

I think there's a possibility that Billy will keep Ginter until he's been assured that Chavez can play at third after his shoulder surgery.

And I think Ginter will be in the final year of a deal he initially signed with the Brewers.

"How much room do I have to cover out here?" -- Kotsay

by Sharon on Sep 21, 2005 10:00 AM PDT up reply actions

hmm

well, the Chavy issue is a good point. But if he is making 1.5 mil next year---thats kind of a lot for an insurance policy. I guess we don't really have a 3b in AAA who could fill in for a bit. Spanos, maybe?

by Alien @ Athletics Nation on Sep 21, 2005 10:04 AM PDT up reply actions

disagree

Ginter's under contract for next year
His '06 contract is reasonable if he's actually given PT
Ginter cost us Lehr & Cruz -- which I wouldn't exactly call cheap
Beane doesn't trade guys when they're at their lowest perceived trade value
If he gets any amount of PT, he'll almost certainly bounce back and give us some decent ABs

I do think he'll be gone at the trading deadline (perhaps packaged with Kennedy or Saarloos?).

put down the stick, and quit swearing -- MobiusKlein

by monkeyball on Sep 21, 2005 10:06 AM PDT up reply actions

re

#2: but if Chavy's back and healthy, when is Ginter going to get any playing time?

I agree that Beane doesn't generally trade guys at their lowest value--but if he doesn't get any playing time, how is the value going to go up?

by Alien @ Athletics Nation on Sep 21, 2005 10:09 AM PDT up reply actions

Maybe Ginter is our DH.

The only way his value rises is if he produces at the plate. Everyone knows that his defense is crap and will likely stay crappy.

"How much room do I have to cover out here?" -- Kotsay

by Sharon on Sep 21, 2005 10:13 AM PDT up reply actions

I just

don't want him taking up roster space if we could find someone who can produce in a limited role--which we know he can't.

As for him being the DH, thats a possibility although if Durazo is healthy by spring he'd almost certainly be a better option.

by Alien @ Athletics Nation on Sep 21, 2005 10:18 AM PDT up reply actions

I prefer Durazo also.

"How much room do I have to cover out here?" -- Kotsay

by Sharon on Sep 21, 2005 10:21 AM PDT up reply actions

Kennedy

will make too much money to be a long reliever. I think he will either be in the rotation or traded. I would like to see either Payton or Kielty (preferably Payton) back as the 4th OF/starter vs. lefties, but that might not be affordable.

"Young, cheap and talented is the best way to go through life, son." --Dean Beane

by dylantravis on Sep 21, 2005 9:55 AM PDT reply actions

I like Bocachica ...

I hope he stays. From what I have seen, he's just a good all-around player. The guy is definitely an above average, if not excellent, outfielder. Supposedly he is a very good infielder as well. He has good AB's and he is so versatile that the A's could possibly even keep an extra pitcher on the staff and go with one less position player. Ginter will be hard to deal, but not impossible. I say keep Bocachica and deal Ginter + a prospect (even Cruz or Garcia if that is what they demand) for Jeff Kent, who would fit our needs perfectly for one year. Then we'd have Kent as backup 2b and 1b, regular DH and Boca as backup OF, 3b, SS. We could still keep Scutaro, or not. I'd say pick up Payton's option and let Kielty walk (I don't think he's signed for next year?), but this culd be debated. Sign Melhuse (if he'll stay) and we'd have:

Ellis
Kotsay
Kent
Chavez
Crosby
Johnson
Payton
Swisher
Kendall/Melhuse

With that lineup there is still room for a young guy (Ethier, Barton, Rouse) to make the team out of spring training, sign Kielty, or carry 13! pitchers, which leaves some options.
The only problem I see with this is that Kent and Payton may bust the budget. The answer to that is that is true, but only for one year, which may be workable. It still keeps the plans intact for 2007, when the young guys are in their prime.

by iceplant on Sep 21, 2005 10:26 AM PDT reply actions

trading for Kent

I get the impression that when it comes to dealing with his "good friends" in the game, BB would make a lot of smaller trades more easily, but I can't see him making a trade that could seriously alter the shape of a frnachise with LA/Toronto...trading for Kent isn't the same as trading for Kielty. I could definitely see Ginter going to LA and Kent leaving LA via trades, just not the same one. Three-team trade, now that's more typical.

Rock over London, Rock on Oakland. Wheaties: It's the Breakfast of Champions.

by Cutthemullet on Sep 21, 2005 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions

hey "mullet":

what happened to JP last sunday? was week 1 the real deal or week 2? your assessment please.

We're not dunderheads here...

by bigelephant on Sep 21, 2005 10:54 AM PDT up reply actions

he looked lost

great first half against the Texans, that game could have been a rout, typical red zone problems though caused us to settle for 5 field goals. 22-7 made the game look way closer than it was...but he was getting good field positioning early, Bills' D was dominant. David Carr said he never played against a better defense. For JP it started going downhill on the first play in the 2nd half against the Texans when he threw a pass right at their outside linebacker who should've returned it for a TD but luckily dropped it. After that, he didn't play that well, but didn't make any major mistakes. Against the Bucs, well, he still didn't throw an INT, but he looked bad, missing open receivers ten yards downfield. I was pissed at some of the coaching decisions though...the play call on the safety was pretty stupid, 3rd and long from their own 5, 0-0 game, couldn't get anything going...run the ball, punt, don't fuck around with Derrick Brooks and Simeon Rice and Ronde Barber...well, we went for the pass, they ran a zone blitz (which was diagrammed and broken down really well in the Tuesday sports section of the Buffalo News, I don't know if you can track that down online or whatnot), 2-0, then 9-0. The other bad decision was bringing in Holcomb for one series in the 4th quarter...it's his second fucking game against one of the best defenses in the league, we don't need to let Holcomb give us another three-and-out. So, bad performance, but coaching was definitely partially to blame, in my opinion, bigE

Rock over London, Rock on Oakland. Wheaties: It's the Breakfast of Champions.

by Cutthemullet on Sep 21, 2005 11:07 AM PDT up reply actions

but Saturday football was decent

not only did the University of Buffalo outplay Rutgers in the first half of their game and only lose 17-7, I also was in vintage high school gym class form when I made my debut in an apartment complex flag football league (definitely weren't playing the team that features a former Syracuse player, though)

Rock over London, Rock on Oakland. Wheaties: It's the Breakfast of Champions.

by Cutthemullet on Sep 21, 2005 11:11 AM PDT up reply actions

thanks,

i missed last sunday's game due to home f*cking renos (great way to spend a sunday, let me tell ya). listening to brad ryder (sp?) on all sports radio tell it, JP was throwing the ball all over the field-just not at bills receivers. i fear it'ii be another up/down yr again. unfortnate because they have a very stout D.

thanks again.

We're not dunderheads here...

by bigelephant on Sep 21, 2005 11:21 AM PDT up reply actions

yeah, you didn't miss much

tough game to watch, Willis couldn't get anything going, Mike Williams got hurt (haven't heard how badly yet), Moulds almost broke his consecutive games with a catch streak, Cadillac kept dragging Troy Vincent for 5 yards at a time...Bills got dominated. Next game is going to be huge, catching ATL at the right time with Vick having the hamstrign injury

Rock over London, Rock on Oakland. Wheaties: It's the Breakfast of Champions.

by Cutthemullet on Sep 21, 2005 11:29 AM PDT up reply actions

You know

It would always be great for the A's to get a good bench player out there that no one knows about just in case one of the OF's gets injured and who would start in LF? that's my question

You may have the greatest bunch of individual stars in the world, but if they don't play together, the club wont be worth a dime.-Babe Ruth

by doublehustle22 on Sep 21, 2005 12:07 PM PDT reply actions