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The Angels "Exceptional defense"???

Well a certian writer seems to think that the Angels  have "exceptional defense".

http://oakland.athletics.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20050808&content_id=1162566& ;vkey=news_oak&fext=.jsp&c_id=oak

While the Angeles have a couple exceptional defensive players: Molina's and Erstad, on a whole thier defense is average at best.

Evidence:
1. Baseball Prospectus Defensive Efficeny stats have them better than 18 teams. (good not excpetional)

2.OF Assists---Dead last in the AL West.

3. 2 most important defensive positions: CF and SS. Cabrera ranks 11 of 25 in Elias' Zone Rating and CF Finley ranks 20 of 21 qualified.

The Angeles defense is solid, but exceptional I think not.

Poll
The Angels Defense is?
Average
30 votes
Below average
3 votes
Poor
1 votes
Exceptional
2 votes
Well above average
13 votes

49 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs  |  Comment 18 comments

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Comments

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They're all brain-dead
Very few supposed baseball experts have yet realized that the A's now have a:
  1. great defensive team;
  2. and a very good offensive team;
  3. and a deep and effective bullpen;
So in order to justify their original prediction of the Angels winning the division, made an absolute certainty by the A's early problems, they have to fall back on defense, bullpen and hitting, since they know the A's have the better starting pitching.

The irony is that when healthy the rotation might actually be the Angels' strongest virtue. They're very mediocre in every other way.

oaktoon

by oaktoon on Aug 8, 2005 10:17 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Mediocre?
Wow..I couldnt disagree more....the Angels as a team are far far from mediocre.
Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Aug 9, 2005 8:34 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

i didn't say that
I said their starting pitching, when healthy, is actually a strong point. (So is bullpen, i should have noted, though i believe it will suffer from recent overwork).

But the team on the field-- I should have clarified-- offensively and defensively-- is decidedly mediocre. And the starting pitching is banged up right now. Plus we don't face Colon.

If there ever were a situation set up for a sweep, this is it.

oaktoon

by oaktoon on Aug 9, 2005 8:54 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Fortunately for the Angels...
It's hard to have a quality team without having at least average defense. It's not three errors a game terrible, but it's not "web-gem" a-night spectacular either.

Molina and Erstad have always been quality, but has Finley been that bad of a CF? I always thought he was a decent outfielder, but 20/21 would beg to differ.

by RenoTy on Aug 8, 2005 10:31 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Average.
Erstad is a great first basemen, but that's because he's a GG-caliber center fielder who is playing the weakest defensive position on the field.  

Kennedy has been above-average (Win Shares and UZR had him pegged as one of the best-fielding 2B in the game), but his 2004 numbers (PMR and Win Shares) show that he can be considered only slightly above-average at best these days (and is probably slightly below-average in actuality).  

Depending upon the metric you're using, Cabrera can be anywhere from slightly below average to slightly above average.  

Finley is somehwhat the same - either below average or slightly below average.

Garrett Anderson = bad.

Vladimir Guerrero = average to below average.

There's nothing solid available on Figgins, because he never played one set position on the field last season.  It's hard to say how good he is with the glove, since I don't watch him on the field enough to know.

As a whole, the Angels are a team on the decline.  Erstad, Finley, Anderson, Kennedy, the Molina Bros., etc.  Even Guerrero is solidly in his peak (meaning you can't expect him to get better - only to either maintain his production or start getting worse).  Their defense as a whole can only be considered average at best (and is probably worse).

The thing with their defense is that it could actually be improved with the roster they already have.  If they stopped being stupid about Erstad and let him play in center field, they'd have at least an average CF again.  Anderson should be at 1B/DH and only occasionally at corner OF, since it's pretty obvious he has become a defensive liability.  That one switch would help their fielding tremendously, because center field is one of the most important fielding positions in the game, and left field, while not stupendously important, is far more important than first baes (Finley would be an upgrade in LF over Anderson).

But hey, if they want to keep doing what they're doing, you'll hear no complaints from me.  The more they hurt themselves, the better it is for us. =)

by Inquisitor on Aug 8, 2005 11:14 PM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Figgins is strong in the OF
But if Finley is playing-- at least Tuesday and Thursday (he'll probably sit vs. BZ)-- then Figgins ain't out there.
oaktoon

by oaktoon on Aug 8, 2005 11:23 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Anderson
I don't think Garrett Anderson is bad. He has no speed, but he gets very good reads on fly balls. I'd say the combination of the two make him average to slightly above average.

by OaktownTribesman on Aug 9, 2005 5:44 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

He used to be fine.
But in the past year (as with Kennedy), he's slowed down significantly.  The numbesr pretty much bear this out.  Even if he gets a good initial read on the ball, his lack of speed (and seeming unwillingness to leg anything out anymore) makes him a liability in the field.

by Inquisitor on Aug 9, 2005 6:30 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Figgins
Is a defensive liability.  Takes poor routes and doesn't have a good arm.  Makes up for some of it with his speed (sound familiar?).
A Beane in the hand is worth $60M in payroll

by jeepers on Aug 9, 2005 11:22 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

very true
In fact I have heard Figgins say he feels much more comfortable in the IF. 3B is his best he says.

by novaoakland on Aug 9, 2005 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I'm willing to give Urban a break
Like most sportswriters, he goes my emotion and intuition than by cold hard fact.  If that's his thing, it's cool - he pretty rarely makes really dumb overarching statements.

It's true though, that the Angels' vaunted defense is sitting around average these days.  Erstad's abilities are being absolutely wasted at first base, and anything that keeps Kotchman from haunting the A's is fine by me.  

BTW, Figgins is a classic utility guy - decent everywhere, great nowhere.  He looks like a disaster in CF.  I'm not sure what the numbers say, though.

Fearing Mecir since 2000.

by salb918 on Aug 9, 2005 7:02 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

Mailbags
He does these every other week. And he choses the questions he responds too. Come-on he made a statement without thinking, same thing we all are critical of ratto and Morgan for.

by novaoakland on Aug 9, 2005 8:08 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Im sure he thought about it...
It's ridiculous to say he doesant think about what he puts in his name on MLB.com..Just ridiculous.  He isnt going to be stuff out there for the world to see without thinking about it.

It is his opinion the Angels play great D....and he's not the only one who thinks it.

Cabrera is slightly above to slightly below average?  Take the metrics you want...he's above average....ask the Red Sox.

Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Aug 9, 2005 8:36 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I have seen enough games to say NO.
If BOSOX were so impressed why did they let him walk?

by novaoakland on Aug 9, 2005 8:43 AM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Sportingnews
Say ANA now trying to dump him also.

by novaoakland on Aug 9, 2005 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

I voted for average
Just for comparison, let's go position by position:

1B--edge to ANA (Erstad over DJ)
2B--push (Ellis and Kennedy both above average.  Ellis might have has the edge pre-injury).
SS--edge to OAK (comparable range, Croz has better arm)
3B--do I even need to answer that? OAK.
LF--depends on who's in there for the A's.  If Payton, edge to A's.  If Kielty, push.  Anderson is below average, and so is Figgins, his speed notwithstanding.
CF--huge edge to OAK.
RF--slight edge to ANA.  Vlad has a cannon, and more speed than Swish, but is wild with his throws and not great at reading the ball off the bat.
C--big edge to ANA, if you don't include game calling skills.
P--edge to A's.  Starters are generally younger and more athletic (pun not intended).

ANA wins 1B, C, RF.  OAK wins SS, 3B, LF, CF, P.  2B is a wash. If the A's are the best defensive team in the league, average seems a good descriptor for the Angels.

A Beane in the hand is worth $60M in payroll

by jeepers on Aug 9, 2005 11:31 AM PDT reply actions   0 recs

A's are better defensively than Angels
but the Angels are still an above-average team. Just compare them to a team like the Yankees or Red Sox and you can see that
Mark Ellis---"this is the funnest team we've ever been on -- Little League, high school, whatever. This is great."

by Alien on Aug 9, 2005 4:43 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

Perhaps
I think I'd call them "slightly above average" rather than "well above average", as stated in the poll, but that's a pretty fine difference.
A Beane in the hand is worth $60M in payroll

by jeepers on Aug 9, 2005 4:47 PM PDT up reply actions   0 recs

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