1991 415/510 area code split and Giants Haters

by AlamedaAphid on Aug 3, 2005 1:56 PM PDT Comment 38 comments

Since I've been reading AN, I've been startled by the amount of anti-Giants venom displayed here. Not horrified or pleased- I have vaguely positive feelings for the Giants and don't believe "they steal potential A's fans" conspiracy theories, nor do I subscribe to class-war theories focused on stereotypes of the respective teams' fans- but still a little surprised by the passion. What I've noticed in my nowhere-near-scientific observations is that the A's fans who hate the Giants/Giants fans/city of San Francisco/wine-and-cheese-consumption seem to be younger than A's fans who like the Giants or don't care much about them either way, with the under-25 group tending to have the most virulently anti-Giants members.

Which brings me to my latest crackpot theory on the subject: This all stems from the 1991 split between the 415 and 510 area codes (can't recall when the 925 and 650 codes split off, but it was around that time). Yes, in the days before cellphones and fax machines gobbled up every possible phone number, you had one area code for a huge chunk of the Bay Area. Oakland was 415. Lafayette was 415. Marin was 415. And so on. Residents of San Francisco and Oakland could join hands and dance around the One True Area Code, singing "Kumbaya" and celebrating their bond, etc. So, when the 510 split off from the 415, a whole generation of Bay Area residents grew up thinking Bad Thoughts about those auslanders with the other numbers... (why, I hear those 415s sacrifice their own children to Wotan!). Those born too early to have a clear recollection of the pre-510 era- let's say early 80s- grew up with a more intense awareness of the otherness of those bastids on the other side of the water.

So, to satisfy my curiosity I'm going to put out this little poll. The first six choices are really for the use of (current and former) Bay Area residents; I've included choices for those of you who live outside the 415/510 Conflict Zone (sorry, no age groups for you, but I'd need more poll fields for that).

Poll

Age/Residence and Anti-Giantism?

(BA Resident) 25+, wish only ill upon the odious Giants.

34 votes

(BA Resident) 25+, don't really care about the Giants.

24 votes

(BA Resident) 25+, root for the Giants (when not playing the A's).

21 votes

(non-BA) Burn, Giants, Burn!

15 votes

(non-BA) Who are the Giants?

5 votes

(non-BA) Go, Giants, Go!

1 votes

ROY STEELE FOR PRESIDENT!

7 votes

(BA Resident) Under 25, bursting at the seams with loathing for the Giants.

17 votes

(BA Resident) Under 25, don't really care about the Giants.

22 votes

(BA Resident) Under 25, root for the Giants (when not playing the A's).

9 votes

155 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs | Comment 38 comments

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Comments

area codes hve nothing to do with it

It's their arrogance;

KNBR;

arrogance;

Bonds;

arrogance;

Ring-a-Ding Park;

arrogance (without having a championship to back it up with);

KNBR;

smugness;

Peter MaGowan;

Bonds;

arrogance;

KNBR;

You get the picture??

oaktoon

by oaktoon on Aug 3, 2005 2:04 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

we dont like the giants

all of the things oaktoon said

it has nothing to do with the area codes split were not gangsters

goddamn crazy sunday driver- butters

by guy on Aug 3, 2005 2:08 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

My disdain for the Giants

goes back to my high school days ('83-'87), so it wasn't the area code split. At my high school, a baseball fan fell into three camps - Giants fans, Athletics fans, or a fan of an out of area team.

The trash talk of by Giants fans about "Will the Thrill", Kevin Mitchell, and all the other knuckleheads that I cannot remember at this moment, left me with very bad memories because countering the chants of, "The better record, the better record" whenever I tried to argue which team was better, left me at a loss for words.

Being that I enjoy arguing but do not like to lose while arguing (a very bad combination), I did the logical thing - I took my inadequacies out on that other lame ass Bay Area team, of course.

Giants Suck 4-eva!

http://www.cafehayek.com ~ a blog for classical liberals

by LowcountryJoe on Aug 3, 2005 2:14 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Always been hardcore A's

but no real angst to the Giants unless they are playing the A's. I think it's good for the area to have both teams playing well.

Now Anaheim.....I root against them no matter who they are playing. That's the real hatred.

Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Aug 3, 2005 2:21 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I like your theory

on the area code split, but I think it's only fueled a fire started long ago.
My animosity towards the Giants has grown in recent years largely due to the fact that Bonds gets more local AND national coverage than the A's, even when they are the hottest team in baseball and he hasn't play a single goddamn game! Grrrrr!

Baseball is a soap opera that lends itself to probabilistic thinking. -D. Cramer

by captainamerica on Aug 3, 2005 2:28 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Always hated the giants

Before any area code split. Ditto to Oaktoons post about arrogance beef. The giants ownership and their fans think they are better than the A's even though they havent won anything!

I dont hate KNBR though, some of the guys like Rod Brooks are hilarious (Barbieri, not so much). BTW the A's talk is taking over, Mychael Urban was on his show today talking about the team. Also funny is Urban saying, the giants and barry should pack it up for '06, even if they could win the horrible west they would get WHACKED by the cards.

by pickinmachine on Aug 3, 2005 2:29 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Maybe my problem is...

...that I grew up in a town with (apparently) no Giants fans, and that I never listen to KNBR nor do I watch any national sports broadcasts. As for "arrogant" Giants fans, every team's fans will tell you how their team is better (in some supposedly important way that you don't care about) than yours, so I generally ignore that. Hell, I've run into arrogant Royals fans. Anyway, I suppose I must admit I find the whole hate-the-other-local-team game somewhat New York-esque. And anything that Yankees fan do is suspect in my book...

Joking about area code splits aside, the Oakland/SF rivalry- with Oakland residents feeling resentful at being eclipsed by SF's economic/recognition dominance- dates back to the Gold Rush era.

"You can throw your cocks if I don't care!" - Iggy Pop

by AlamedaAphid on Aug 3, 2005 2:42 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

415/510/925

Don't forget the 925 animosity. ;) We used to be a 415 and 510 as well!

by anomaly_kat on Aug 3, 2005 2:51 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

For the record...

I am under 25 and I bear no ill-will towards the Giants whatsoever. If anything I will rib my friends that are Giants fans and we'll make fun of each other's team. I actually like them a little when they're not playing the A's.

When they were playing the Angels, I rooted for the G team all the way.

The way I saw it growing up was that the giants, the Raiders, the 9ers, the Warriors represented the Bay, the best place on earth. (My opinion, and I've been to and lived in 10+ countries along with both US Coasts). I love the atmosphere of the bay, they appreciate culture and beauty in a very European manner, they love healthy eating, they're very pro-active and ask questions, and they don't buy as much into the mass frenzy of fear, consumers, and other things all the other US areas do. I would take the appreciative wine-and-cheese diner over the shallow artificial beach bum of the OC as well as the prejudice hick of the bible belt any day of the week(exagerrating, but stereotypes do exist).

To me the Bay is the place to be, and I want everything about it, including sports teams, to outdo the other areas in the United States. The place is special and when it comes to sports, I want us to be recognized.

Of course, within the confines of the Bay, i will have to say that everything East-Bay is the best. So once in a while I will be irritated by the clueless Giants fan, but when put into perspective, its much better than meeting the worst of the Angels, Red Sox, Cowboys, San Antonio fanbase.

Change is for the better. For both the A's and in life.

by WhiteElephantGuy on Aug 3, 2005 2:59 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

It has nothing to do with the Gnats

I just hate San Francisco - period. The Gnats just happen to have the name, that's why I don't like them.
I know some gnat fans who come over to support us and they help sell seats, so I don't have a problem w/ them. On the other hand, I don't know any A's fans who routinely go to Gnat games.

by sf drift king on Aug 3, 2005 3:02 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

allen

do you live "insf"? If you do, I feel bad that you hate it so much. I live in Oakland now after living in SF for 10 + years (moved here from Pennsylvania in '84), but I work in SF and I have a hard time seeing how you could hate it. I don't care for the Giants but if Bonds didn't play for them I wouldn't wish them ill will.
I voted for Roy Steele (anybody's better than the s*%t-for-brains who's in there now) because none of the other poll points fit.

by Brian in 317 on Aug 4, 2005 7:46 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Meet an A's fan

who regularly goes to Giants games. I love the A's. I also love baseball. I can't believe my luck living in a two team market. This means that on a summer day there is not just one but two games to listen to on the radio. What's bad about that?

by EgolikeRickey on Aug 4, 2005 10:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe current location is also a predictor?

I'm in the 650 area code district, under 25, and have to admit that I cheer for the Giants-- not rabidly, of course, but I do root for them when they're on TV and there's nothing else (read: A's game) to watch. My brother's a Giants fan, so there is an element of making fun of them.

Besides, it's one of my theories that knowledgeable Giants fans have a rather dry sense of humor :) Rather than bemoaning their existence when the team's not going well, they seem to take a lot of losing in a more healthy manner. They seem to... stay on an even keel, I guess. Makes them not bad people to be around when discussing sports. :)

by Trocmagic on Aug 3, 2005 3:12 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Sounds like Warriors fans.

"We got Suck".

For the future, two words: Baron Davis.

Change is for the better. For both the A's and in life.

by WhiteElephantGuy on Aug 3, 2005 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe

I don't like the Giants because all my life I've known Giant fans around me, in school, fellow classmates of mine, just about everybody. When the A's got taken out by the Twins once again, my friends made fun of me that the Giants were going to bring the bay area a championship, and I thought 'what'. And we all know the rest of the story, game 6, back in sophmore year my english teacher said he had to go home because he couldn't bear to teach after the Giants lost, so he took two days off and I laughed the rest of the way.

You may have the greatest bunch of individual stars in the world, but if they don't play together, the club wont be worth a dime.-Babe Ruth

by doublehustle22 on Aug 3, 2005 3:21 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I'm not in California...

But I don't hate/like the Giants...I really couldn't care less about them. I like a player, hate a player, stuff like that.

by Squeaky on Aug 3, 2005 3:22 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

F'ing Giants Suck!! (eom)

President of the Brent Gates Fan Club

by SoCal As Fan on Aug 3, 2005 3:35 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

hmmm...

a little history on the subject of area codes....

previously, in order to decipher area codes from country codes (and local prefixes), area codes traditionally were three digits, with the middle digit always being an 0 or 1. examples: 415, 510, 916, 707. when there got to be too many phone lines in one geographical area, they would split up the region and add a new code (ala the 415/510 split). Eventually, there weren't enough numbers to go around, so 2's through 9's replaced the 0's and 1's, and modern area codes as we know them were born: 925, 650, 530.....

wow....that was totally pointless.

by high street on Aug 3, 2005 3:39 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Even more pointless

But the "important" areas got area codes with a one as the second digit and low numerals as the first and third digits, so that it wouldn't take forever to dial such numbers on a rotary phone. So the Incredibly Important NYC area got 212, the very easiest area code for rotary phones, while the Nearly As Important Los Angeles got the almost-as-easy-to-dial 213 (Angels haters will be pleased to note that 714 is a medium-level pain-in-ass to dial on a rotary phone). The Not Completely Unimportant Bay Area got the still-no-big-hassle 415 (although the Never Heard Of The Place South Bay got the finger-breaking 408) and the Nobody Could Possibly Live There state of Alaska got screwed over in a big way with 907.

"You can throw your cocks if I don't care!" - Iggy Pop

by AlamedaAphid on Aug 3, 2005 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

wait...

you're kidding about this, right?

let's go oakland [clapclap clapclapclap]

the a's fan lj community.

by Jjjsixsix on Aug 3, 2005 5:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

obviously not.

i'll go look at my area code map again.

let's go oakland [clapclap clapclapclap]

the a's fan lj community.

by Jjjsixsix on Aug 3, 2005 5:58 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Nope, it's true

"You can throw your cocks if I don't care!" - Iggy Pop

by AlamedaAphid on Aug 4, 2005 9:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

i learn something new on AN every day

thanks.

If I weren't playing baseball, I'd be... "in the Ultimate Fighting Championship." -Rich Harden

by xbhaskarx on Aug 4, 2005 4:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm from St. Louis

Every self-respecting Cardinals fan hates the Giants, especially Jeffrey Leonard.

Of course, now I've adopted the A's, and would have to root for them over my beloved Cardinals if they were to meet in the WS.

by sfodoug on Aug 3, 2005 3:53 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

The turning point was the new park

I'm an >25 fan who's been an A's fan since childhood and never cared much about the Giants one way or the other. That all changed after PacBell/SBC opened. Its only been since then that I've encountered arrogance and a misplaced superiority complex on the part of Gnat fans. It's as if they've become the materialistic family members who have a beautiful, expensive home and no moral compass; the ones who know the price of everything, but the value of nothing. I hear their voices in letters to the editors, in media stories, and at stadiums. But I also have many friends and acquaintances who are Giant's fans. I've noticed the older they are,and the longer they've actually been Giant fans, the more grounded they are. I suppose it's because they have been humbled by their history. It is for these fans that I actually rooted for SF in 2002. (Of course, that meant I also wished for the Angels to lose, an easy thing to do.)

by guapobob on Aug 3, 2005 4:42 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Oaktoon gives a good synopsis

The Giants organization was the first MLB team although the Oaks and Seals really put bay area baseball on the map. Somehow, this has been portrayed in the media as entitlement. That is, b/c they were here first they "deserve" more adulation, respect and attention.HOGWASH!

This notion has been played out ever since the A's got here. Certainly, the Giants had nothing but a lot of good memories and aging stars from NY early on but after the A's won 3 championships, the perception of the A's didn't change.

Mr. Finley didn't help the situation d/t lack of community service/involvement. In the 70's the Raiders dominated the football scene until Al Davis commited the the stupid act of moving them south. All the while, the A's were going under-appreciated.

After Haas took over, the perception of the team changed. LaRussa's cerebral approach plus bigger than life stars as well as locals such as Stew and Henderson helped improve things. Our attendance set the Bay Area standard until PacBell was built. But all along, whether it was poor politicking from Oakland, as long as something semi-exciting happened to the Giants, the A's would immediately get ignored.

KNBR in fact carried the A's for awhile before the station was bought by the Giants. Ultiimately, it came down to arrogance, smuggness and a sense of entitlement which has disgusted A's fans for so long. Currently, the ongoing issue revolves around Santa Clara Co., where MaGowan claims rights so that, although he has his stadium now, he wanted to maintain the option of moving the team there prior to Pac Bell being built. i.e. he got his cake and still eats from it. This was due to the generosity of Mr. Haas who allowed this to happen, but we'll never see this reciprocated from Magowan's poor soul.

by Gerard on Aug 3, 2005 4:48 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I'm over 25 (40, actually), and I've always

rooted for the Giants (when they weren't playing the A's). I have to agree that this anti-Giants feeling among A's fans is relatively recent. I don't remember it being that way when I was young. I've always rooted for all the Bay Area teams. I think the 49er/Raider fan split might have something to do with it, although I prefer the 49ers to the Raiders (thanks to Al Davis). In any event, I will agree that the Bay Area media is biased to the Giants.

Green and Gold since '73. #1712

by kent1 on Aug 3, 2005 7:26 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

i'm a bit disturbed

by all this rooting for the giants talk in this diary.

i think all you fake a's fans need to be rounded up and placed in some sort of orwellian re-education camp, preferably in a separate area code from the true fans in the good ol 510.

If I weren't playing baseball, I'd be... "in the Ultimate Fighting Championship." -Rich Harden

by xbhaskarx on Aug 4, 2005 3:59 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I don't hate the Giants

...because they are not worthy of such passion. At most, I feel a mild disdain (and pity) for them and their misguided fans.

by nickolai on Aug 4, 2005 10:13 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

OK, I have my answer

My crackpot "Fresh-Faced Youthful A's Fans Hate The Giants More Than Grumpy Cynical Old A's Fans Because Ma Bell Controls Our Minds" theory can be thrown out the window. The results, after 109 votes (warning: small sample size), break down like this:

Bay Area Residents Under 25:
31% hate the Giants
55% are ambivalent about the Giants
14% like the Giants

Bay Area Residents 25 and Older:
49% hate the Giants
26% are ambivalent about the Giants
24% like the Giants

Non-Bay Area Residents:
62% hate the Giants
31% are ambivalent about the Giants
7% like the Giants

So, members of the Bay Area's Generation Y lack the strong convictions of their elders, with the majority of the under-25 set not giving a damn either way about the Giants (those who do hate the Giants outnumber those who like them by about 2:1), while nearly half of the older Bay Area A's fans have sunk into a bitter stew of intolerance for the Giants (apathy and affection for the Giants among this group seems pretty evenly split). Meanwhile, only one voter from outside the Bay Area approves of the Giants, while the other 94% either hate or don't care about the Bay Area's National League team.

"You can throw your cocks if I don't care!" - Iggy Pop

by AlamedaAphid on Aug 4, 2005 10:25 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

And, yeah, there are rounding issues

OK, math police, might as well book me now.

"You can throw your cocks if I don't care!" - Iggy Pop

by AlamedaAphid on Aug 4, 2005 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I just grew up

with an East Bay vs. SF chip on my shoulder; it was natural to extend that to SF's ball team.

I also grew up with a NorCal vs. SoCal chip, and a West Coast vs. East Coast chip. My issues have issues.

by ArakSOT on Aug 4, 2005 10:29 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Giants? yawn

I was born and raised in the East Bay, and have been an A's fan since I discovered baseball circa 1971. I knew people who were Giants fans, and I knew people who were A's fans. I have no animosity towards them or their choice of favorite team, although I've often detected some jealousy on their part.

The A's have always been and likely will always be a better ballclub than the Giants. Why should I care about the guys in black and orange?

"The bigger the game, the better he pitched."

by Catfish27 on Aug 4, 2005 12:59 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

enemy territory

I'm an <25 A's fan, I voted ambivalent about the giants, but I'm often surprised I'm not more hostile towards them, given that I live in marin, a 415 area. The fans are just so... dumb. But then a few years ago I went down to Anaheim. And suddenly, SF fans seemed so much more intelligent. So no bad blood even though I'm surrounded by all those halloween colors.

by DavisAs on Aug 4, 2005 2:03 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

They're dumb and ugly

but I really have nothing against the Giants ... ; )

No, but seriously, I don't either. I'm completely ambivalent towards the team. For some reason, I just find they're games remarkably boring. I would always choose to watch a non-A's game on TBS, WGN, or ESPN over a Giants game.

When I think about the business of baseball, though, I have to figure that the A's and Giants are competing for shares of a mostly finite market and what's good for the Giants is bad for the A's.

The next time I slap a guy's ass, can we all just assume it's because I wish I was a baseball player?

by devo on Aug 4, 2005 3:38 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

1997 the key year

Because interleague play made fans pick a side, which we never had to do before (unless you count the 1989 World Series, which I don't because the A's were obviously a much better team).
Before interleague play, I was an A's fan but also rooted for the Giants. I went to the first interleague series at the 'Stick in '97, guest of a Giants season ticket holder, and wore an A's cap to make my feelings known. Having made that decision, I've disliked the Gnats ever since.

by vk on Aug 4, 2005 2:33 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

415

Used to go as far south as San Luis Obispo and as far north as Ukiah

"so what was it? the pork chop or the booty???" -rly723

by secret ASian man on Aug 4, 2005 3:15 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I'm an under 25 A's fan

and I hate the Giants.

I live in the 510. I didn't hate the Giants until they moved to SBC. I didn't like how their "fans" all drank chardonnay, talked on their cell phones, and were just there for the park.

I also didn't like how KNBR and all the media-types would bash the A's. I remember Daisy Razor Barbieri saying in 2001 that the A's were "an aberration." I remember he also called all of Beane's trades "window dressing."

Idiots (like Barbieri and Radnich) in the media who think the Giants can do no wrong who also bash the A's at any cost are what led me to hate the Giants.

by uci anteater on Aug 4, 2005 4:09 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs