Looking ahead to the offseason
The diary formerly known as, "Is it game time already?" or "What the hell am I going to do all day until the game starts?"
Possibly the best part about this year's team is that nearly everyone is going to be back next year. Let's quickly run down the 2006 roster and committed dollars:
SP Barry Zito 8.25
SP Rich Harden 1.00
SP Danny Haren 0.32
SP Joe Blanton 0.32
SP Kirk Saarloos 0.32
RP Huston Street 0.32
RP Justin Duchscherer 0.32
RP Kiko Calero 0.32
RP Joe Kennedy 3.00 (? ARB 6)
RP Juan Cruz 1.00 (?, ARB 5)
RP1
RP2
C Jason Kendall 11.00 (1.00 to PIT)
3B Eric Chavez 10.00
SS Bobby Crosby 0.75
2B Mark Ellis 0.60 (?, ARB 4)
1B Dan Johnson 0.32
DH
LF Bobby Kielty 1.5 (?, ARB 5)
CF Mark Kotsay 7.00
RF Nick Swisher 0.32
C Adam Melhuse 0.50 (?, ARB 4)
IF Keith Ginter 1.42
IF Marco Scutaro 0.32
OF Charles Thomas 0.32
$49.2 million total. Yabu and Witasick not retained. Payton probably not offered arbitration, too risky. Rincon you could maybe offer if you think he'll look elsewhere to get multiple years, he might be a Type B. Hatteberg's option not picked up at $2.75 million.
Anywhere that I've guessed the salary, I've placed a question mark; this is generally for the arbitration-eligible players. Remember, the salaries of arby players is primarily determined by their length of service... thus, ARB 5 players generally make a lot more than ARB 4 players just by virtue of the extra year.
Clearly, there are a few spots that appear to be question marks.
-Retaining Ginter and his $1.42 million salary looks horrible, but I doubt we can trade him.
-Likewise, Melhuse could easily cost closer to a million, making him an expensive backup catcher.
-Another year of carrying three 2B doesn't really make sense either.
-I'd imagine that Kirk Saarloos will be moved to the bullpen and Joe Kennedy will be given a chance to start again, but out of respect for the season Los Kirk is putting together, I'm leaving him in the rotation. No effect on salaries though.
The most conspicuous holes are at RP and DH, and isn't it a coincidence that we have two, fragile-elbowed, free-agent question marks currently rehabbing Tommy John surgery in Dotel and Durazo.
To offer arbitration, or not to offer arbitration, that is the question.
And, really, the answer seems pretty clear: at $49.2 million in committed payroll ($60 million budget), you've got to offer both of them arbitration. That is, assuming they'll be able to play come July or August next year... otherwise, this becomes a very difficult dilemma.
Let's assume for a second that both would rejoin the big league club sometime in June or July (before the trade deadline). If we offer arbitration, there are three possibilities:
-They accept, in which case they'd almost certainly be awarded 20% less than what they're making this year, which comes to $3.75 million each ($4.75 million * 0.8) and $7.5 million between the two of them.
-They decline arbitration and their value on the free agent market is high (high enough that we wouldn't try to sign them). We get 2 draft picks for each of them, 4 total. Yay.
-They decline arbitration thinking they can do better on the free agent market, but actually their value is low. We end up with a shot at resigning them and if we don't, 2 draft picks each.
Considering that we have the room under the budget, offering them arbitration gives you the best return on your assets (but which could potentially be lost for nothing). The only problem is you have to make do with replacements for the first half of the season while they are rehabilitating, and probably in-system players since you wouldn't be able to afford anyone else. In the bullpen, there are enough candidates at AAA: Garcia, Flores, Rheinecker, Mabeus. DH is slightly more problematic. There's Jack Cust, Matt Watson or Brant Colamarino, but none of them are particularly great options. Daric Barton is unlikely to be ready by then and it might be dangerous to rush him. I suppose Billy could probably find someone to DH for a half season, there'll probably be a couple million to spare.
It'll be interesting to see what happens. Is it game time yet?
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A few reactions
- I don't think it dangerous at all to rush Barton;
- i don't forsee Dotel or Durazo in the A's plans-- I'd much rather see them reup Witasick and Payton and keep Cruz. Kotsay is going to need a backup;
- Surely by now we've seen the value of Scutaro-- Ginter can be dumped.
God, I love this team.
Please help disabled kids in Sacramento play baseball by helping the Rivercats build a specially equipped field for them.
Good Post
Anyways, with regards to Dotel and Durazo, I don't think it would be wise to offer them arbitration. I don't see either of these guys getting even half of 3.75 Million on the open market. I can't see BB taking a 7.5 Million Dollar bath on these two guys. Too much depth in both scenarios (Bullpen - Duke, Calero, Witasick, Street, Garcia, Mabeus, etc.), and (1B/DH - Johnson, Barton, Swisher, any other person put in the DH Spot)
Does anyone have examples of players coming off of TJ or other surgeries, and signing the next year? I remember Wade Miller got about 1 Million this year from Boston, but I'm not sure what his injury was.
I would like to see Kennedy and Cruz battle for the #5 Spot in the rotation. Saarloos is having an awesome year, but he might be even more valuable in the bullpen next season, alas, The Duke in 2004-2005. And if Zito isn't re-Signable, Saarloos can step back into the fray.
Wow, this team looks rock solid.
Jon Lieber is the only comp I could find
He rehabbed for all of 03, making 550 K, then pitched decently in 04, making 2.7 MM.
Dotel was making about 5 MM this year, right? So the Lieber comparison is somewhat valid financially as well as structurally.
By the way
Pardon my disbelief here...
I'm always interested in the future of this ballclub, both on the field and financially.
...but after rereading this post from you, I'm not sure where you stand. Is the wind really blowing from a different direction today?
by LowcountryJoe on Aug 1, 2005 10:51 AM PDT up reply actions
How?
You're obviously interested in my takes - Please tell me your thoughts (You haven't rebutted anything I've proposed). Your attempts to downgrade me w/ shallow "Short Bus" put downs is completely disrespectful.
Also, please read this:
"I believe that a lot of people are letting the anonymity of online forum posting let them turn our fair community into an arena of bitter baseball snobs bantering about statistics. I know none of those people would act so aggressively eye to eye. There's just something about physical presence that allows people to be more courteous. So what I am asking all those people who said "that trade is ridiculous, have you even been watching??" and "Um...no. That makes no sense." to just pretend you are saying those things to a fellow A's fan at a local pub...and just be nicer." - WhiteElephantGuy
This quote is directed at AN'ers like yourself (IMO), and I couldn't have said it any better.
by Colorado Fan on Aug 1, 2005 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions
First of all,
Secondly, I've already read that quote by WhiteElephantGuy because I've visited your AN Homepage as I was stalking you. When did the WhiteElephantGuy write that? It's pretty spot on. It mirrors something I wrote too, or maybe I mirrored him. It would be interesting to see who wrote what first. Either way, it's true. The difference in my case is that I would be crazy enough to say much of the stuff that I write while in your (or anyone else's) presence. If you've ever read my comments for any great length, I do not often go out of my way to offend unless someone else is doing it or being critical. In fact, I do a fair amount of ripping on myself.
Clearly though, you've flip-flopped regarding the organization's future and you did an awful lot of whining about the organization's lack of a recent championship.
by LowcountryJoe on Aug 1, 2005 1:44 PM PDT up reply actions
Last Word
But again, you refuse to offer any insight to your beliefs. I can only assume that you feel that this team should "Stand Pat". And I disagree w/ that stance...
"if memory is serving correctly - takes you to task about mortgaging the future for the sake of the NOW" - That's flat-out wrong! I have said on many posts that I understand that Cinncy was asking way too much for Adam Dunn - Read this....
http://www.athleticsnation.com/comments/2005/7/26/4321/59960/67#67 - You, LBC, even responded w/ "Excellent Comment"
When I went on my little rant, I was asking BB/Macha & company to put the future aside for a moment (2 - 3 months)
- There's no need talk about 2006-2010. We should be doing what we can to win it all this year - I've never asked them to trade away the future, nor do I believe it to be the right thing to do, in most cases.
- Macha has talked about not enough playing time - Who cares who is getting the playing time, as long as we are winning.
- As for the other comments, lets just say I'm a little paranoid about past postseasons....9 friggin' series clinching losses! What A's fan isn't paranoid???
If standing pat was your pre-trade deadline agenda, you obviously think Keith Ginter is valuable to this year's team (good luck charm, maybe?).
As for "flip-flopping": If your opinions of this team have stayed steady throughout the 2005 Season...well then, you are a lyer.
I'm sick of the pettiness some people show on this great website. I would point the finger, but what's the use. I think you know who I'm referring to, and their all AN Snobs - IMO.
And no, I don't believe you would say the following to my face, because if you did, there would be some serious problems...
"In short, think of me (or us) as someone who provides something that brings you satisfaction - sort of like the bus driver that you had in high school that would pull around to the inconspicuous location so that none of the other kids saw that the bus you rode wasn't quite as long as the others...the one that gave you a helmet and mouthpiece (even though you weren't on any team) so that the spasms against the window were blunted and hurt less. Be kind in return, I (or we're) here for you son." - LBC
Anyways, I'm done. Let's root on the A's, and agree to disagree.
interesting
I also foresee a move to the 'pen for Saarloos... but not to make room for Kennedy... BB is gonna give Cruz a shot to start... if Kennedy starts he'll have to beat out Blanton in spring training... seems unlikely. Kennedy may prove to have a higher value as off-season trade bait than he did during the season... perhaps we could force someone to take Ginter by packaging them. I also doubt that we ever see Chuck Thomas in Oakland again. He'll be passed by Ethier, Watson and even Stanley.
Ohad
Anyone?
Dotel
HOWEVER, if the A's do offer him arby, he'll likely get a decent award, and he is just too risky to tie up a lot of money in. I think the A's should take the chance that he won't sign with another team, and then sign him when the become able to do so on May 1. He probably wouldn't be ready until at least then anyway. IMO he's too much of a risk to tie up more than a mil or two in.
Also, I don't foresee Saarloos in the rotation next year. Ideally, that spot would be taken by Meyer, with Saarloos working out of the pen. He'd be wicked in that role.
by Alien @ Athletics Nation on Aug 1, 2005 8:52 AM PDT reply actions
every time
It always seems like there are various A's that management has decided (probably using some statistical measures) are not THE GUY and they never quite give them the same chances they give THE GUY. For instance, Swish, Crosby, Haren, Blanton and Kielty are THE GUYS. But Saarloos, Byrnes (please no comments), Duke, Scooter and DJ are all players who had to wait a little extra and fight a little harder to get a chance.
Borrowed time
By the way, what the heck does "Cupcake Up" refer to? Some sort of Joe Blanton allusion?
Where have you been?
by baseballgirl on Aug 1, 2005 10:32 AM PDT up reply actions
I thought ...
The "chosen" Ones
I Still think that Saarloos is not a long term starter. He's been great this year, and I (really) like the guy, but most of the time he can only go 5-6 innings. It takes aggressive teams that don't have a ton of speed to allow (Seattle, Detroit) to let him get deep into games. And one thing I find troublesome is that he has started to give up a lot more HR as the season has progressed. However, if he continues to put up QS the rest of this year and into next, feel free to say "I Told You So":)
by Alien @ Athletics Nation on Aug 1, 2005 9:10 AM PDT up reply actions
Baseball Business
More than anything else, It's probably a GM/EGO thing.
I don't think it's an ego thing
Would you hire a Hayward grad over a Harvard grad? Of course not. If they had 15 years of professional experience and the Hayward grad was clearly superior, you would take him. But all other things being equal, almost everybody would err on the side of the Hayward grad.
Juan Cruz
Player IP H R ER BB SO HR ERA
Cruz (L, 3-1) 5.0 7 5 4 2 6 2 2.15
I know, not a big deal. Just thought I'd share.
Meyer's Last Start
Meyer (W, 2-6) 7.0 4 1 0 2 7 0 5.45
Dont Forget Dan Meyer
As far as the DH spot.. I think they may bring back Hatty at a reduced salary and find a right handed bat for him to Platoon with. You might be able to get Hatty and a right hander for the 2.7 that Hatty would have made..
Besides that I think the most interesting position is left field.. We'll see if Billy brings back Kielty or looks to improve in that area.. (not that Kielty isnt playing well.. but LF is probably the easiest area to improve the team)
Lastly, offering arbitration to Dotel & Durazo is not a good manuever.. There is no reason to pay upwards of 3 million to players who will only play half the season IF that.
It'll be Barton
This thread in general
Absolutely no better organization to root for in baseball
by Alien @ Athletics Nation on Aug 1, 2005 9:18 AM PDT up reply actions
A Street-Esque Situation
But I have to think Billy would bring in veterans at those positions, so Barton will have to "wow" the brass to make the squad..
but what do I know?
Barton
I know I'm assuming way too much and I could very well be wrong, but it is interesting timing.
by Roscoe Parrish on Aug 1, 2005 9:24 AM PDT up reply actions
he has tailed off a bit recently in Midland
Wow
If he started from day one on 2006, he would definitely be a super two, so he would end his arbitration in 2010 anyways.
by Roscoe Parrish on Aug 1, 2005 9:33 AM PDT up reply actions
What is a "Super Two"?
I'm not sure
by Roscoe Parrish on Aug 1, 2005 10:15 AM PDT up reply actions
No
In Barton's case, this means:
If he starts with the A's at the beginning of 2006, he'll be eligible for arbitration after the 2008 season (3 years), and for free agency after 2011 (6 years).
If he starts in May 2006, he'll still be eligible for arbitration after 2008 (super 2), but not eligible for free agency until after 2012 (6+ years).
If he starts in July 2006, he'll be eligible for arbitration after 2009 (3+), and for free agency after 2012 (6+).
I would think that even if Barton looks ready next spring, they'll send him down for a month in order to get an extra year down the road.
http://mlbplayers.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/pa/info/faq.jsp#arbitration
Thanks
by Roscoe Parrish on Aug 1, 2005 3:37 PM PDT up reply actions
Hatteberg
Personally, I don't think it's in the best interest to keep Hatteberg on this team past this year? There have to be better/younger options out there for 1B/DH/Backups (DJ & Swisher will occupy about 90% of the playing time at 1B in 2006)...
How about spending 5-Million on a RH/OF-DH Power Hitter?
- Kevin Mench
- Rondell White
- Juan Encarnacion
They're gone
Nice Post Jay!
Same thing with Durazo, he offers depth, but in his case he's too limited in that he IS a defensive liability wherever he would play.I'm not convinced BB will want him. What happens with Hatteberg will be the telling factor. If his option is picked up, then I suspect Durazo may be out.
Beane may view Barton as he did Chavez, stick him in LF and let him grow into his potential. He apparently displays enough plate discipline. He won't be one of 4 rookies making the contributions of this year's group, thus less pressure on him. He would also have grizzled veterans such as Crosby and Swisher around for guidance.
Let me throw a name out there
Folks, I'm talking about FRANK THOMAS.
It's almost unconscionable that he's been playing for so cheap. Wonder if this thought has crossed Beane's mind.
I think ...
hey,
Power bats
As for Ginter. Because of his salary he has no trade value. 3rd string 2B hitting .168 making over a million dollars rarely do.
Sure, but....
by BruceBochte on Aug 1, 2005 2:34 PM PDT up reply actions
Ok...
- Payton, Witasick: stay (Good Outfielder, power reliever, Period.)
- Jairo, Kennedy, Saarloos, Cruz one of them is gone (probably two)for a power young RH OF (Jonny Gomes?)
- Hatty: stays (Beane loves him, Period.)
- Kielty: gone (we will keep Payton, Mash Lefties
- Rincon: gone (Rheinecker and Flores will be the next year Kennedy-Rincon)
- Ginter, Scutaro and Ellis: all stay (Scutaro and Ellis are very importany for this team and nobody will take Ginter)
I was interested in BB's comments
But I doubt we can offer arbitration, our great hope is that we can let them go and resign them for a reasonable salary.
by china bob on Aug 2, 2005 1:49 AM PDT reply actions

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