Jay Payton to Oakland?

Hmmm...

We really don't need another outfielder, unless one of our current guys are going to be moved (Byrnes, Kotsay?).

Valero...gas with...URMPPH!

by franks a lot on Jul 7, 2005 1:34 PM PDT reply actions

News to me

They can have Duke and Street. Pfft, I mean Flores & Macha.

by eamb on Jul 7, 2005 1:35 PM PDT reply actions

Not to be rude, but why would we want him?

by rookieoftheyear on Jul 7, 2005 1:35 PM PDT reply actions

hot-headed-latin ?

by eamb on Jul 7, 2005 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions

I have no idea

All I know is what I heard Gammons say on the radio. Maybe Billy is getting ready to move Byrnes or Kotsay?

by RandyKutcherHair on Jul 7, 2005 1:37 PM PDT up reply actions

I hope that doesn't mean he will be patroling

center, and Kotsay is gone.

by theblackpearl on Jul 7, 2005 1:36 PM PDT reply actions

ugh

Watching payton out there after Kotsay would be detrimental to my sanity.

What's the point of attaching a number to everything you do? If your numbers go up, you're having more fun.

by AlwaysSweatin on Jul 7, 2005 1:45 PM PDT reply actions

TJ Franco JR...

That should be enough

by saint @ Athletics Nation on Jul 7, 2005 1:45 PM PDT reply actions

Payton

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/splits?statsId=5773

Payton is a more expensive and worse Eric Byrnes. He would make our lineup KILL Lefties, but what the hell? Sox would be paying his entire salary I assume though.

I only see us getting him if we trade Kotsay or Byrnes or Kielty. Otherwise, we'd have no use for him.

Athletics Nation Chatroom! Join us at #AthleticsNation @ irc.zirc.org

by Zonis on Jul 7, 2005 1:46 PM PDT reply actions

We'll see

Should be interesting to watch over the next 10 days.

by RandyKutcherHair on Jul 7, 2005 1:54 PM PDT up reply actions

if payton replaces kotsay in CF ...

i'm going on strike.

by gotgreen on Jul 7, 2005 2:11 PM PDT reply actions

Depends on...

...who is replacing Kotsay. Pie etc. from the Cubs would soothe the wounds.

by D Fords Cousin on Jul 7, 2005 2:13 PM PDT up reply actions

well

there's definitely going to be another deal to compliment this one.

Hopefully it's not Kotsay.

by Sharon on Jul 7, 2005 2:14 PM PDT reply actions

I Don't Get It

Payton is great against lefties ... but so are Byrnes and Kielty.

He was upset about playing part time in Boston ... but he wouldn't be an every day starter in Oakland either.

He's more expensive than Byrnes and Kielty.

What's the attraction?

The only reason for this would be if the A's trade away an outfielder. But Payton is more of a replacement for Byrnes than he would be for Kotsay.

by Eck on Jul 7, 2005 2:16 PM PDT reply actions

Since Payton hits about as well as Byrnes and Kielty, and is more expensive, it wouldn't make sense to acquire him as a corner outfielder. So if the rumor has any merit, it means Kotsay is gone and Payton would be our new centerfielder.

No one wants to see Kotsay go, but if he does I think Payton would be about as good a replacement as we'd find. I looked up their UZR ratings (generally considered the best, though still imperfect, statistical measure of defense).
Payton is ranked +14 runs/year in CF based on 2000-2003 data, and +34 runs/year based on 2004.
Kotsay is ranked +27 runs/year based on 2000-2003, and +9 based on 2004.
If you give more weight to the larger sample sizes, Kotsay is a little better on the whole, but Payton's numbers are excellent as well. His career batting line (.283/.333/.442) is almost identical to Kotsay's (.286/.343/.423) also.

Again, I don't want to lose Kotsay, but Payton would certainly be a better solution than Byrnes (ok hitter, poor fielder), Thomas (good fielder, can't hit), or anyone else we are likely to pick up. His age (already 32, 3 years older than Kotsay) means that he would only be a short-term solution.

Wasted? What about our staring contests? And the way we always knew what football coaches should have done? - Homer

by andeux on Jul 7, 2005 2:28 PM PDT reply actions

How much of Payton's career line...

comes from his time in Colorado? From what I've seen, he only has power in thin air.

"Yucky Head Bad Guy!" - my 5-year-old daughter to Manny Ramirez. She got ice cream immediately afterward.

by DMtShooter on Jul 8, 2005 8:41 AM PDT up reply actions

Where'd you get

the 2004 UZR numbers?

gimme, gimme, gimme ..... pleeeeeeeeeeeeease.

The next time I slap a guy's ass, can we all just assume it's because I wish I was a baseball player?

by devo on Jul 8, 2005 12:58 PM PDT up reply actions

Payton is a high priced Byrnes

Very similar stats for almost twice the money - and he is old so there is no upside - he is probably in decline - Why??
The big thing to keep in mind is almost no one comes to Oakland and improves their power. His numbers are from Fenway park - what he gets in Oakland will probably be different.
Payton was a turd in San Diego.....who couldn't replace Kotsay - lasted one year and replaced by Dave Roberts.

by Carerra on Jul 7, 2005 2:34 PM PDT reply actions

This could be good though...

Assuming Kotsay is history after hering this rumor, I'll also assume that Billy will have Boston pay his salary. Does anyone know if Payton is a free agent this year. If he his, I'd imagine that he'd be at least a B Type FA. That means that we'll get a draft pick for him and get to use him down the stretch. This is the only good scenario that I can think of because Payton's career year, two years ago, was in Colorado and that's what got him his pay day. He isn't a bad fielder either.

by RunRickeyRun on Jul 7, 2005 2:51 PM PDT up reply actions

contract

$4 million option, with a $500K buyout for next year. The Padres may be paying part of it, and of course we could try to get the Red Sox to pick up some.

Wasted? What about our staring contests? And the way we always knew what football coaches should have done? - Homer

by andeux on Jul 7, 2005 2:59 PM PDT up reply actions

I agree with you

Payton was only avg at best when he was with the Mets.

by sf drift king on Jul 7, 2005 4:30 PM PDT up reply actions

Trade No one

I wonder if Gammons meant that he would end up in Oakland as part of a trade (in the next 10 days) or that we would get him once he is a free agent (with Boston paying almost all his salary).

by Larry E on Jul 7, 2005 2:50 PM PDT reply actions

I am going to boycott

going to games this year if Payton replaces Kots in the outfield!!!!

"Don't you play the flute, Huddy?"

by capper3 on Jul 7, 2005 2:55 PM PDT reply actions

Anyone think...

we could spin Payton into Hairston?
We might have to throw in something else, and I don't even know if CHI would be willing to part with a 2B, but if that could happen, I'd be quite content.

by fadedash on Jul 7, 2005 2:59 PM PDT reply actions

I think I will pass on Payton!

Gene Nelson and I have the same barber!

by beta103 on Jul 7, 2005 3:05 PM PDT reply actions

Don't get too upset or excited

As many of you know, as much as I like Gammons, when it comes to trade rumors he is a gossipy little bitch with no facts. On ESPN radio in the offseason he reported that Hudson was heading to the Dodgers for Brazoban and others. I think Beane knows he has a loose lip and he (with DePo's help) probably slipped Gammons some "info" to get the Braves to pull the trigger.

Anyways, my point is Gammons is great on analysis, horrible on trades. I would treat this as any other rumor. Besides, as many of you have pointed out, Payton to the A's makes no sense b/c Payton = Byrnes + $$$$$$.

by oaktownmario on Jul 7, 2005 3:10 PM PDT reply actions

good points

thanks for reminding us

by OaklandSi on Jul 7, 2005 3:42 PM PDT up reply actions

But Hudson did get moved.

Do not kill Gammons, he got word it was LA and Atlanta stepped up. Maybe today the A's are the front runners for Payton, but Gammons also said that it was not a done deal.

by dougald1 on Jul 7, 2005 3:57 PM PDT up reply actions

Billy told everyone Hudson was moving

so that is no big accomplishment for a national columnist/reporter.

Besides, just giving everyone "the big picture."

by oaktownmario on Jul 7, 2005 4:21 PM PDT up reply actions

In Billy We Trust?

Well, if Billy thinks he'll fit in here, then I guess I have to trust him. Although I agree with you all that I'm not sure what he would fill unless Kotsay is moved.

If Kotsay is moved, though, and he goes to the Cubs, I would want Patterson to be part of the deal, and he would be a good replacement in CF, and therefore we wouldnt need Payton. I dunno. But I'm sure Beane has something up his sleve, so I'll wait and see before I make any final judgements on it. Maybe he'll turn Payton into Prior or something...lol.

"I don't want to play golf. When I hit a ball, I want someone else to go chase it." ~Rogers Hornsby

by ZeroIndulgence on Jul 7, 2005 3:12 PM PDT reply actions

I'd be happy

With getting Hairston for Payton

by fadedash on Jul 7, 2005 3:24 PM PDT up reply actions

Patterson

...is an all or nothing hitter. Billy thought Tejada swung at too many first pitches? He's downright patient compared to Patterson. I frankly don't want Payton or Patterson anywhere near the green and gold.

by IndianaAsfan on Jul 7, 2005 5:19 PM PDT up reply actions

keep in kind

While i know we are only talking about jay payton, Gammons was the first to announce the kotsay deal and the mulder deal. And it was rosenthal who reported the false 1 first.

Lets go Oakland!

by bballfanr33 on Jul 7, 2005 3:17 PM PDT reply actions

re

Yeah, Gammo is the one who squashed the Antonio Perez and Edwin Jackson rumor.

Payton is useful. He looks bad in center, but he gets to tons of balls. He's a much better option than Byrnes in center. A's are only carrying four outfielders anyway. It'd be nice to have another so that the guy sitting is more available to pinch hit.

Would be really unhappy if either Garcia or Calero was traded for him, as is being rumored right now. Bradford I'd be fine with, but Calero and Garcia are more valuable. Everybody needs relievers right now anyway, and if Billy is going to trade one, he should be able to get something better than Jay Payton.

by 31Boots on Jul 7, 2005 3:31 PM PDT up reply actions

Looks like Bradford is the guy:

Bradford for Payton?

Hmmmmm???

by saint @ Athletics Nation on Jul 7, 2005 3:46 PM PDT reply actions

where'd you see Bradford

mentioned (in connection with Payton)?

by OaklandSi on Jul 7, 2005 3:49 PM PDT up reply actions

from sonsofsamhorn.com

This is what Theo Epstein said on the pregame show:

A trade involving Payton is a done deal. He finalized a deal he's been working on previously involving Payton last night following Payton's antics. The trade has not yet been completed for unstated reasons. The deal likely will be consummated over A-S Break. Payton DFA'd to get him off the team b/c he was not being a team player.

And the rumor is that the A's are sending over a player currently on the DL.

A relief pitcher on the DL.

I think it's Bradford too, Saint.

by Sharon on Jul 7, 2005 3:50 PM PDT reply actions

"Payton's antics" ?

what kind of antics were they?

by OaklandSi on Jul 7, 2005 3:53 PM PDT up reply actions

He swallowed 6 Johnny Damon bobbleheads

He would've swallowed more, but Damon's mullet on the 7th bobblehead got stuck in his throat. Epstein doesn't want someone so injury-prone on his team.

independencefieldsac.org
Please help disabled kids in Sacramento play baseball by helping the Rivercats build a specially equipped field for them.

by kaweahkaweah on Jul 7, 2005 3:56 PM PDT up reply actions

he's pissed about the lack of

playing time.

I don't know exactly what happened, but he may have thrown a fit to Francona on a recent flight.

This is all second hand information. You can read the Payton DFA'ed thread on that forum and get a better handle on it.

by Sharon on Jul 7, 2005 4:00 PM PDT up reply actions

"throwing a fit"

sounds a bit like the "clubhouse cancer" behavior that some other players have engaged in...

by the way the Yankees just called up Melky Cabrera. He is starting tonight in centerfield. If he looks good the Yanks may not try to trade for a centerfielder.

by OaklandSi on Jul 7, 2005 4:03 PM PDT up reply actions

Oh hell no.

They are NOT taking away Bradford now that he's finally coming back, I've been waiting for my favorite submariner's return!

This makes me a little ill... I'm hoping it's just smoke since Payton doesn't seem at all the kind of CF that Billy would pick up, ESPECIALLY if there's "antics" going on. I mean, BB's gotta be tired of trying to package away clubhouse troublemakers.

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." ~Rogers Hornsby

by Kyli on Jul 7, 2005 4:08 PM PDT up reply actions

Keep

Bradford!!
Payton sucks!
Boo!

Bruce Campbell deserves his own national holiday.

by pbruins92 on Jul 7, 2005 7:16 PM PDT up reply actions

This is odd

The A's have been linked for Payton for a few years now and I always scratch my head when I've heard the rumors. I say him play in Norfolk and he never impressed me. He's just "average" and we have too many other outfielders. If this happens, it means Beane will trade Kotsay or Byrnes soon.

Bradford doesn't deserve to go to Boston. He's too nice.

Signatures? We don't need no stinking signatures.

by jubjub on Jul 7, 2005 3:57 PM PDT reply actions

Take out Colorado

And his career numbers are:

OBP: .316
SLG: .401

OPS: .717

WORTH $4MM?????

Signatures? We don't need no stinking signatures.

by jubjub on Jul 7, 2005 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions

San Diego

is already picking up some of that cash.

by Sharon on Jul 7, 2005 4:04 PM PDT up reply actions

That info is huge

This looks like a waste of time.

by boilerdan on Jul 7, 2005 5:18 PM PDT up reply actions

I hope it's not Bradford

by Sharon on Jul 7, 2005 4:09 PM PDT reply actions

One word......NO

Now THIS is Billy Ball

by Masaryk on Jul 7, 2005 5:09 PM PDT reply actions

I read on the fanhome board

That by UZR, Payton was the best or at least one of the best defensive players in all of baseball last year. Defensively he's well above average. Maybe the Red Sox are agreeing to eat some of his salary and make the money a wash? If so, he'd prove a better 4th OF than Byrnes, since he can spell Kotsay in CF. And before you ask, no, Byrnes is NOT fit for CF, even as a backup.

by OaktownTribesman on Jul 7, 2005 5:42 PM PDT reply actions

If Billy Believes That's True ...

... then it means Kotsay is gone and Payton is our new center fielder.

Replacing Kotsay's offense isn't the hard part.

We can only hope that the package of players the A's get in return for Mark is worth it.

by Eck on Jul 7, 2005 8:04 PM PDT up reply actions

Who else goes?

Who do the A's move to fit Payton on the roster? There has to be another trade made.

by RandyKutcherHair on Jul 7, 2005 6:12 PM PDT reply actions

I'd do it!

They need an arm, I can think of one about now that I could see could be very attractive for the A's to trade.

by Rangla on Jul 7, 2005 6:21 PM PDT reply actions

Patient Man

It is very difficult not to be frustrated by Ricardo

It is very difficult to watch and listen to the usual performance of Ricardo Rincon. He is always behind the hitters that he faces. To me, the hitters appear to be happy to see Mr. Rincon entering the game. They smile with glee. 99 out of 100 times he satisfies their anticpation. Isn't there someone in AAA or AA that can improve on Mr. Rincon usual performance?

Swede

by swede on Jul 7, 2005 6:37 PM PDT reply actions

Maybe they want Dotel?

He is a"relief pitcher on the DL"

Bruce Campbell deserves his own national holiday.

by pbruins92 on Jul 7, 2005 7:17 PM PDT reply actions

can't trade

I don't think you can trade Dotel since he's on the DL.

Signatures? We don't need no stinking signatures.

by jubjub on Jul 7, 2005 7:26 PM PDT up reply actions

Durazo

would be my bet due to DJ playing well and not being able to move Hatty.

"What's the ugliest part of your body...some say your nose, some say your toes, but i think it's your MIND." - Mothers of Invention

by redclay22 on Jul 7, 2005 7:27 PM PDT reply actions

they have Ortiz at DH

why would they want Durazo?

by Sharon on Jul 7, 2005 7:35 PM PDT up reply actions

pardon my language

but peter gammons is full of shit. why would we trade for payton, when we have a full boat in the outfield already. The last thing we need is to diminish our pen, and add a disgruntled outfielder.

I took a torpedo through the lower abdomen while on patrol in the north Atlantic. They replaced my entire bowel with hemp. Clogs easily. -Loyd Bridges

by robber23 on Jul 7, 2005 7:49 PM PDT reply actions

Theo Epstein

has already stated that a deal is in place.

It may not be with the A's, but it's hardly surprising. The A's have inquired about Payton before. And the idea would be, I guess, to trade one of our outfielders.

by Sharon on Jul 7, 2005 7:57 PM PDT up reply actions

It's simple, Because Kotsay is gone....

And Payton would be an OK replacement

by Olijerez77 on Jul 7, 2005 7:59 PM PDT up reply actions

Has no one considered...

...what Kotsay could fetch in return? Assuming that Payton is added and will be replacing Kots in CF. Sounds like some closed-mindedness in here!

Then again, it all sounds like fresh meat for the fanatic - fresh meat to gin up an intense desire to tune into ESPN and prop up ratings.

http://www.cafehayek.com ~ a blog for classical liberals

by LowcountryJoe on Jul 7, 2005 8:03 PM PDT reply actions

Kotsay to Cubs?

The Cubs optioned outfielders Jason Dubois and Corey Patterson to Triple-A Iowa. Could Kotsay be going to the Cubs to fill their of void? That would clear a roster spot for Payton.

by RandyKutcherHair on Jul 7, 2005 8:03 PM PDT reply actions

and who would the A's get from the Cubs?

by OaklandSi on Jul 7, 2005 8:11 PM PDT up reply actions

Jason Dubois

He is probably better suited for a DH role than an OF.

by RandyKutcherHair on Jul 7, 2005 8:19 PM PDT up reply actions

yet another DH?

by OaklandSi on Jul 7, 2005 9:04 PM PDT up reply actions

My Guess Is ...

Bradford to Red Sox, Payton to A's.

Kotsay to Cubs, (DuBois or Jerry Hairston) and Pie to A's.

Bad trade for the Cubs. They need to think about 2006 and 2007 too.

by Eck on Jul 7, 2005 8:27 PM PDT up reply actions

Pie?

The Cubs wouldn't trade Pie for Kotsay in this or any other universe.

by rsquared on Jul 7, 2005 9:20 PM PDT up reply actions

I don't know much about the Cubs

but could this be a 3-way where:

Sox get Bradford
A's get Payton and then flip to Cubs for someone Billy wants? Maybe Cubs didn't have what Sox wanted so Billy got involved, knowing he was re-signing Kotsay. (I hope, hope, hope--I really want to keep Kotsay.)

"Don't be an ass!" --Bill King

by batgirl on Jul 8, 2005 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions

My theory...

is that BB will make Theo take Hatteberg's contract (2.45M) in addition addition to Bradford's (1.4M). Considering Payton makes 3.5M this year its a relative wash. There is precendence with this type of trade when BB traded T-Long as a throw-in with Hernandez to get Kotsay.

Trading Hatteberg will make available a valuable roster spot which would be occupied by Durazo when he comes back and allows us to keep DJ in Oakland.

"I like playing baseball," Payton said. "I don't like watching baseball." After a comment like this I think Payton is coming to be the the A's starting CF. Why trade for him if he'd just experience the same situation here?

http://www.boston.com/sports/baseball/redsox/articles/2005/06/19/payton_cant_see_watching/?rss_id=Bo ston+Globe+--+Sports+News

I also think BB is working on a trade for Kotsay which could happen within the next 10 days since Payton was DFA'd. Probably after the ASB.

by Playball on Jul 7, 2005 8:31 PM PDT reply actions

Good theory; but...

What would the Sox do with Hatteberg? They already have Millar and Olerud at 1B and Ortiz at DH. There is no room for Hatteberg.

by RandyKutcherHair on Jul 7, 2005 8:37 PM PDT up reply actions

Well Maybe is not Hatty, Could be Byrnes...

And That Make sense...

-Byrnes (and his 2.2 millions and Bradford to Boston Payton to Oak
Boston get Payton replacement and bullpen Help, we got Kotsay replacement
-Kotsay to Cubs for Dubois and a pitching prospect
Cubs got his CF, Dubois will be Byrnes' replacemnt and the young power hitter that we are looking for plus a pitching prospect

by Olijerez77 on Jul 7, 2005 8:51 PM PDT up reply actions

I really like your theory

by Olijerez77 on Jul 7, 2005 8:38 PM PDT up reply actions

Jose Guillen said basically

the same thing to the press when he was with the A's. If you turn down a chance to sign a really good player like Guillen because of his attitude, why take an older and less effective player with the same attitude?

by OaklandSi on Jul 7, 2005 9:07 PM PDT up reply actions

Hatteberg

I think that Theo is trying to trade Millar. Heard it on ESPN today. Millar wants more playing time too.

The dominos will need to fall sequentially in order for the master plan to work.

by Playball on Jul 7, 2005 8:45 PM PDT reply actions

True

This is true. Gammons reported that Millar asked to be traded about a month ago. But, the problem is that Theo could not find any takers for him.

by RandyKutcherHair on Jul 7, 2005 8:48 PM PDT up reply actions

Millar is a Righty ...

... and the A's could use a right-handed 1B/DH in the mix, but he would take at bats away from Byrnes (if he's still in Oakland) and Kielty.

But Millar is such a punk I'd hate to haveto root for him. Let's hope this doesn't happen.

by Eck on Jul 7, 2005 8:51 PM PDT up reply actions

He Also Hits RHP as well as he Hits LHP

by Eck on Jul 7, 2005 8:57 PM PDT up reply actions

He was one of the four who pulled

the Li-lly stunt in Game 3 of the 2003 ALDS (Mirabelli, Lowe and a coach were the others). According to MLB rules he should have been thrown out of the game and out of the ballpark. He's also the original "cowboy up." And his hitting has deteriorated (while his defense has never been that great).

This would be even worse than getting Payton.

by OaklandSi on Jul 7, 2005 9:10 PM PDT up reply actions

So much...

for that theory. But Theo is a smart guy. I think somethings brewing behind the scenes. Just a hunch.

by Playball on Jul 7, 2005 8:50 PM PDT reply actions

i'm hoping billy

also lives up to his "smart guy" label and has something else brewing, because payton for bradford straight gives us another not-so-great outfielder that we DONT NEED. and if payton is going to be the full time CF and kots is gone...well, i don't know, but i don't think i'm going to be pulling out the "In Billy We Trust" phrase anytime soon.

by nycfan @ Athletics Nation on Jul 7, 2005 8:54 PM PDT up reply actions

Keep An Open Mind

Payton is right handed, which the A's need.

He hits RHP and LHP equally.

His career OPS is about the same as Kotsay's. (But Payton's OPS includes two crazy years in Colorado. Take those out and Kotsay has better numbers.)

and ... here's the unexpected part ...

ESPN has Payton's defense rated slightly BETTER than Kotsay's.

If Billy can trade Kotsay for a boatload of talent and replace him with a very similar player -- even if the replacement isn't a fan favorite -- I think he should do it.

Remember, it's all about selling what the market is willing to over pay for and replacing that with equal value at a better price.

by Eck on Jul 7, 2005 9:11 PM PDT up reply actions

Well said Eck!

by gatling on Jul 7, 2005 9:24 PM PDT up reply actions

what about byrnes?

it's possible that they're trading byrnes and not kotsay. this is wishful thinking, but i just don't understand why the a's would want payton. he hit lefties better than righties, but byrnes is superb against lefties. why would we need payton?

the thought of payton playing CF for the a's makes me very very unhappy.

and bradford? that stinks, especially since our pen could use another good arm.

by nycfan @ Athletics Nation on Jul 7, 2005 8:52 PM PDT reply actions

Defense is

the undervalued metric at this time. I would have a hard time seeing the A's keep both Kotsay and Payton. Thats a lot of salary for two guys who don't hit homers on a small market team.

by Playball on Jul 7, 2005 9:00 PM PDT reply actions

but if the sox pay payton's

salary, or at least part of it, i dont think salary is the issue.

by nycfan @ Athletics Nation on Jul 7, 2005 9:01 PM PDT up reply actions

It may

be the available roster spot that the A's need.

Just heard Gammons say on BBTN that he thought Payton could be traded next week for an Oakland reliever (Bradford). Maybe it would be a 1:1 trade.

He also just speculated Biggio for Byrnes (2.2M). Biggion makes $3M this year. Is he signed for next year. If not, could work for short term rental.

by Playball on Jul 7, 2005 9:17 PM PDT reply actions

IF we get Payton,

it only makes sense that Kotsay is on the way out. Moving Byrnes would do one of two things: 1. Cut into playing time for Kielty and Swisher, which I don't see BB doing.

2. Payton sits on our bench, and becomes a cancer, which I don't see BB doing.

The only way we get Payton is if BB has a trade for Kotsay done or 99.9% done. If we move Kots to the Cubs, I would want a package of Pie, and two pitchers from these choices: Renyel Pinto, Sergio Mitre, Rich Hill, Todd Wellemeyer, or Angel Guzman. Hill and Pinto would be my first choice, but they probably wouldn't give up both. Guzman has been hurt the last couple of years, but the kid is lights out when healthy. People in the Cubs organization compare him to Carlos Zambrano.

I would personally have Pie over Dubois, even though Dubois is a RH bat. Pie is 6 years younger and could spend this year and part of next in AA/AAA and be ready for 2007. I'd only be interested in Patterson if we could quickly turn him around for a young RH power bat or another young arm. I don't think this guy is going to put it together any time soon, and even in his "breakout year" last season he struck out 168 times vs. 45BB. He definitely doesn't fit the mold of an A's hitter. Also, his speed would be wasted, more than likely.

by gatling on Jul 7, 2005 9:23 PM PDT reply actions

I just found another young arm

in the Cubs farm system. Ricky Nolasco, 22, 8-0 2.71ERA, 96.1 inn, 9.63K/9, 3.68K/BB 16 starts in AA. I would be very happy with him, Guzman, and Pie.

by gatling on Jul 7, 2005 11:33 PM PDT up reply actions

Really Good Points

The question, as posed by rsquared above, is: would the Cubs actually trade Pie? It doesn't really make sense for them.

Of course, he's the player we'd all really like to have.

by Eck on Jul 7, 2005 9:30 PM PDT reply actions

I would guess...

it would depend on what we thought was more important. Pitching or hitting? If we want Pie more, we would probably only get one pitching prospect. If we took Dubois, or even Matt Murton, we could probably get two higher rated pitching prospects. I wonder what we could get for Kotsay and Byrnes? The Cubs had interest in Byrnes earlier in the year. Byrnes couldn't do too much damage in LF at Wrigley, as small as the park is.

As far as what we give up for Payton, I'd say Bradford and Rincon or Bradford and Hatty. In a dream world, they'd take Ginter and Rincon. Only dreaming.....

by gatling on Jul 7, 2005 9:44 PM PDT up reply actions

no

In a dream world, they would take Ginter and Hatteberg

Athletics Nation Chatroom! Join us at #AthleticsNation @ irc.zirc.org

by Zonis on Jul 7, 2005 9:51 PM PDT up reply actions

Well Houston..

Don't have a real 1B, Berkman is playing there and Burke is playing out of position in LF, Maybe we can trade Byrnes AND Hatty/Durazo for Burke and another player

by Olijerez77 on Jul 7, 2005 10:28 PM PDT up reply actions

I just hope Byrnes won't go to Chicago

I hope he goes to Houston, He's going to kill himself running against that Wall in Wrigley, Besides I reaaaally want to see Byrnes playing with that mound behind him in Houston, WILL BE VEEEERY FUNNNY!!!

by Olijerez77 on Jul 7, 2005 10:17 PM PDT up reply actions

Not Biggio

Gammons was talking about Chris Burke being dealt...who Billy tried to deal for this offseason...Gammons said that they can't find a lineup spot for Burke with Biggio playing so well.

Every team needs a few guys with big f*ckin' stones who ain't afraid to flash 'em - Huddy

by FabulousG on Jul 7, 2005 10:02 PM PDT reply actions

What about Murton and Greenberg?

The two guys called up to replace Dubois and Patterson? Look at they numbers and they are Beane type of players, especially Murton (Boston's first round in '03), perhaps Beane wants to see this kids against Major league pitchers, and then he will pull the trigger

Guys something is going on for sure with Bos, Oak and Chi,

My guess, Bradford to Boston and Payton to Oakland, Kotsay to Chi, Dubois or a pitching prospect and one of this kids

by Olijerez77 on Jul 7, 2005 10:03 PM PDT reply actions

My only added comment

to the mix is that the A's already have two platoon players who hit LHP well and generate some power. If there's a trade to add power to the lineup, I can only see it being someone who is viewed as an everyday, "hit every type of pitcher" presence (as Dye was in 2001).

Since the A's can't afford to make more than one such acquisition, that trade would either be a substantial deal or a trade taking a chance on a possible young "stud." Guys like Byrnes, Bradford, and Payton don't translate into either of those categories.

Nico

by Nico on Jul 7, 2005 10:04 PM PDT reply actions

No way

Rumors are always floating around and Payton could be traded but if it's for Byrnes everyone will be happy I suppose, or if Bradford is dealt that diminsihes a solid bullpen.

You may have the greatest bunch of individual stars in the world, but if they don't play together, the club wont be worth a dime.-Babe Ruth

by doublehustle22 on Jul 7, 2005 10:21 PM PDT reply actions

Where did you see this?

by gatling on Jul 7, 2005 10:38 PM PDT reply actions

One guy says it is Bradford.

http://www.projo.com/redsox/content/projo_20050708_08payton.22f9127.html

use bugmenot if you want the whole thing

After a late-inning dugout confrontation with manager Terry Francona Wednesday night forced their hand, the Red Sox designated outfielder Jay Payton for assignment yesterday and have a deal in place to send him to the Oakland A's for reliever Chad Bradford.

Because Bradford, who underwent back surgery in the spring, is currently on the disabled list, the trade can't be announced until the All-Star break, when the veteran reliever, currently on a rehab assignment, is activated.

According to multiple industry sources, the Sox had the deal in place and were waiting for Bradford to be activated. But Payton's actions Wednesday night at Texas' Ameriquest Field hastened his departure.

------

Payton is in the final year of a deal that pays him $2.75 million. It's believed the Sox will send some of the $2.6 million they received from San Diego last December to Oakland to help facilitate the trade.

by Sharon on Jul 7, 2005 10:39 PM PDT reply actions

Gaaaah.

If the dude can't get along with Terry, I don't want him in Oakland. That's like having a dude that kicks puppies or cusses at My Little Ponies.

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." ~Rogers Hornsby

by Kyli on Jul 8, 2005 1:10 AM PDT up reply actions

Burke

Burke is Houstons top 2B prospect I belive, so that would be great for us.

If we got Burke, then Ginter would most definantly be sent down. Scutaro and Ellis would be confined to the Bench, however, unless one was traded also.

Athletics Nation Chatroom! Join us at #AthleticsNation @ irc.zirc.org

by Zonis on Jul 8, 2005 12:25 AM PDT reply actions

espn.com quotes the Providence Journal...

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2102714

says here that:

The Red Sox designated outfielder Jay Payton for assignment, activated outfielder Adam Stern from the 60-day disabled list, sent left-hander Lenny DiNardo to Triple-A Pawtucket and traded Ramon Vazquez to Cleveland for Alex Cora in a deal involving utility infielders.

The Providence Journal reported Thursday night that the Red Sox have a deal in place to trade Payton to the Oakland Athletics for reliever Chad Bradford. According to the paper, the deal can't be announced until the All-Star break because Bradford is on the disabled list and has to be activated first.

by Andrew @ Athletics Nation on Jul 8, 2005 12:31 AM PDT reply actions

Did Anyone Ever Consider

that maybe BB will trade Payton? Or that BB wants a RHH OF who can actually play CF to spell Kotsay against tough LHP? (Yes, I know Payton was unhappy in Beantown because he wasn't playing regularly.)

by rsquared on Jul 8, 2005 7:48 AM PDT reply actions

Kotsay hits lefties

by Sharon on Jul 8, 2005 7:56 AM PDT up reply actions

He hits lefties better than righties

by Eck on Jul 8, 2005 9:05 AM PDT up reply actions

yep

makes no sense to platoon those two.

by Sharon on Jul 8, 2005 9:29 AM PDT up reply actions

Maybe Billy is going to spin Payton

to the Yankmees for Hughes and/or Duncan?

by BruceBochte on Jul 8, 2005 8:17 AM PDT reply actions

I Hate Jay Payton

He is one of my top 10 least favorite Major League Baseball players for a few years now.

On top of my personal hate, there is absolutely no reason for Oakland to acquire Payton as he doesnt add anything and could be detrimental to the clubhouse.

Again, like when Gammons said Barton would be in the A's outfield NEXT year.... I'm pretty sure PG just made this rumor up.

A's Fan in Philly

by Duby on Jul 8, 2005 8:31 AM PDT reply actions

why the hate for payton?

We're not dunderheads here...

by bigelephant on Jul 8, 2005 8:35 AM PDT up reply actions

Good Question

Not sure why but I hated him since he came up with the Mets..... I really dont know what it is but the man just appears to be an a**hole... judging from his tenure in boston, maybe i was right

A's Fan in Philly

by Duby on Jul 8, 2005 8:46 AM PDT up reply actions

ahhh, you guys in philly hate everyone

;-p

We're not dunderheads here...

by bigelephant on Jul 8, 2005 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions

Its True

I hate

Mark Mulder, Jason Giambi, Jay Payton, Piazza, Derek Jeter, Keith Foulke, Kevin Millwood, I could go on forever..

#1 on the list is Jason Varitek... I hate that man with a passion

A's Fan in Philly

by Duby on Jul 8, 2005 10:22 AM PDT up reply actions

why do you hate Mulder?

"The author of Moneyball? Joe's not sure who that is, but he's sure he's a joke."

by AllThingsOakland on Jul 8, 2005 10:23 AM PDT up reply actions

and do you hate...

...thome and that old geezer manuel?

We're not dunderheads here...

by bigelephant on Jul 8, 2005 10:27 AM PDT up reply actions

Made the rumor up??

It's already confirmed that Payton has been dealt..Its in every paper...it's not a rumor....nor is it just from Gammons

Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Jul 8, 2005 1:34 PM PDT up reply actions

Its confirmed?

Really? Where?

A's Fan in Philly

by Duby on Jul 8, 2005 1:40 PM PDT up reply actions

found this on SI.com in truth and rumours section

The Red Sox designated outfielder Jay Payton for assignment yesterday and have a deal in place to send him to the Oakland A's for reliever Chad Bradford. Because Bradford, who underwent back surgery in the spring, is currently on the disabled list, the trade can't be announced until the All-Star break...
--Providence Journal

I hate any player thats got the initials NY on them!

by TorontoAsFan on Jul 8, 2005 9:12 AM PDT reply actions

I dont like the deal

.

A's Fan in Philly

by Duby on Jul 8, 2005 9:20 AM PDT up reply actions

Anytime

a deal doesn't make sense to me on its face, I figure there's more to it than meets the eye. My guess is that Payton will never play for the A's, but that we may well trade for him.

Nico

by Nico on Jul 8, 2005 9:37 AM PDT reply actions

I agree

as far there's definitely more to come.

I just have no clue exactly who's going where.

This deal, on it's own, makes little sense.

by Sharon on Jul 8, 2005 9:39 AM PDT up reply actions

as far as

whatever

by Sharon on Jul 8, 2005 9:40 AM PDT up reply actions

as near as

whoever

by green star oakland on Jul 8, 2005 9:50 AM PDT up reply actions

I hope you're right

A's Fan in Philly

by Duby on Jul 8, 2005 9:43 AM PDT up reply actions

Dunno, if Payton is as good as advertised

defensively, might be a good way to be able to ship out Kots for prospects. That way the A's don't loose much definsively.

by BruceBochte on Jul 8, 2005 10:03 AM PDT reply actions

The way I see it, Payton gives Beane lots of

options, which is what makes the deal attractive. If he doesn't like whatever is being offered for Kots, he can just flip Payton somewhere for a prospect or two. Lots of teams will probably be looking for outfield help before the deadline.

by BruceBochte on Jul 8, 2005 10:04 AM PDT reply actions

Besides, gettting rid of Bradford

before him comes back from injury is lower risk than waiting until he comes back when he could get bombed in his first couple of innings back (after which point his value would be considerably diminished). One thing that can be said for Payton is that he's healthy!

by BruceBochte on Jul 8, 2005 10:06 AM PDT reply actions

Where would he play

when you have kotsay, byrnes, kielty, swisher... Where/When would Payton play?

A's Fan in Philly

by Duby on Jul 8, 2005 10:09 AM PDT up reply actions

If Kots is dealt CF

If Kots isn't dealt, then you can be sure that Payton will be shipped off to a team looking for a veteren OF who plays good D (Dodgers?) before 7-31.

by BruceBochte on Jul 8, 2005 10:13 AM PDT up reply actions

BB is just trying to trade low value (Bradford)

for higher value (Payton). Its like last year with Beltran or a couple of years ago with Weaver. He just gets as high a value player as he can for as low value as he can, not necessarily to keep them but to flip them, maybe for prospects.

I like the idea of flipping Payton to LA which needs outfield help. Their farm system is totally stocked at AA!

by BruceBochte on Jul 8, 2005 10:16 AM PDT up reply actions

How does Payton have high value...

And if LA wanted him, why wouldnt they just get him for Boston now?

Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Jul 8, 2005 1:35 PM PDT up reply actions

Because

with the injuries the Dodgers have (Gagne) they don't have any major-league ready relievers they can trade, which it sounds like what Boston wants.

by rsquared on Jul 8, 2005 1:54 PM PDT up reply actions

The only

good thing is if Bradford goes to BOS, I can watcg him pitch all the time.

Bruce Campbell deserves his own national holiday.

by pbruins92 on Jul 8, 2005 10:10 AM PDT reply actions

Remember that Beane is a master

at manipulating the media in order to help him orchestrate killer deals.

by OaklandSi on Jul 8, 2005 10:26 AM PDT reply actions

Contenders in need of OF help

Arizona, Atlanta, LA Dodgers, NY Yankees, St. Louis, maybe Texas and Anaheim.

No way would a NY-Boston trade happen, so Beane would have to step in to get Payton to NY. The D'Backs and Dodgers are within striking distance in the NL West (AZ could use a CF and the Dodgers need anyone healthy) and both are stacked in the minors.

Edmonds is dinged in St. Louis and their team has plenty of age in the OF anyway... but will they be willing to deal with Beane again considering the flop that the Mulder trade has been up to now? And whom would they trade? Their minor league system is fairly empty.

Texas might not be content with a Matthews/Nix mix in CF but pitching is probably their #1 priority. Seems like I've heard that before...

Anaheim must be disappointed with Finley, and now he's hurt. I haven't heard any whispers that they're looking for OF help, but they can't spare the bullpen arm to pry Payton from Boston so they might be willing to go through Beane to get the guy.

by grover on Jul 8, 2005 10:45 AM PDT reply actions