question about history of the DH

by david32 on Jun 6, 2005 3:42 PM PDT Comment 22 comments

I've got a question about the history of the DH. I was just reading on Marty Lurie's blog (http://www.loveofthegameproductions.com/) about his view that the DH should be accepted in both leagues. I personally disagree with this and consider myself an NL style of baseball fan, but an NL team hater. i.e. I'd like to see the AL drop the DH, although the union would never allow this.

However, every level of baseball that I ever played (including Pony League, HS and now adult baseball) has used the DH, so it started me wondering if non-MLB rules have always included the DH.

My question for those great and wise ANers who grew up playing ball prior to the DH's entry into MLB is did the rule exist in other areas of baseball prior to it's implementation in MLB? was the DH rule cooked up out of thin air by MLB and then disseminated to all levels of baseball or was it as widely used as it is now, but finally the AL accepted it?

Also, any idea why only the AL started using the DH and not the NL? The AL wasn't exactly the upstart league anymore by that time.

0 recs | Comment 22 comments |

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

I thought...

they created the dh in the al to attract more fans to the game by creating more offense. I read about it in high school, did a report on it but I can't remember now. At work with websense, so sorry no link.

self high five

by AllThingsOakland on Jun 6, 2005 4:04 PM PDT reply actions

The DH....

has been in the AL since '73 after being approved by the AL owners in '72, thanks to a lot of campaigning by A's owner Charlie Finley. It was originally a 3 or 4 year experiment to increase run production thus increasing attendance. I can't remember why the NL didn't go for it, but I believe back in the late 20's they wanted it and the AL voted it down.

I, like Crash Davis, think there should be a Constitutional Amendment outlawing it. My 2 cents worth.

Why does everybody stand up and sing "Take Me Out to the Ballgame" when they're already there? ~Larry Anderson

by lansfords1 on Jun 6, 2005 4:07 PM PDT reply actions

Pitchers that can't hit

I don't consider myself an NL hater at all and with Extra Innings, I watch a lot of ball and a lot of NL ball. However, I just don't understand why "NL Lovers" hate the DH so much and criticze AL ball for "lacking tradition."

Almost every time I watch an NL pitcher hit it is an absoloute joke. Honestly, do fans pay money to watch pitchers bunt or strike out? Or how about walking the 8th guy to get to the pitcher? Because that is what inevitably happens 99% of the time. Yeah, I know there is Mike Hampton and Dontrelle, but outside of a handful of pitchers, I think it is such a waste of fans' time and money to have pitchers "hit." Why else is it such a big deal when Pedro "finally" gets a hit or when a pitcher hits his first career double, triple, or home run in his 12th year in the league?

Because of pitchers being an automatic out and b/c teams pitch around others to get to the pitcher, this makes for a boring game.

If pitchers are going to hit, they should be allowed to practice hitting as much as other hitters (which they never will allow), so that at least the at bats don't look like something from a co-ed work softball team. Until then, I think it is the AL lover who can honstly say that AL baseball is more exciting, and worth the $$ (theoretically).

["Theoretically" b/c no one would have gotten their money's worth watching our horrid A's offense prior to this recent turn around.]

by oaktownmario on Jun 6, 2005 4:33 PM PDT reply actions

I agree.

I WANNA LIKE BASEBALL AGAIN!

by baseballgirl on Jun 6, 2005 4:41 PM PDT up reply actions

Disagree

It's fun to watch pitchers hit. Batting is a fundamental part of baseball; why shouldn't pitchers be expected to contribute offensively as well? We don't pay money to watch anyone popout or strike out, so why should we target the pitcher when they don't get hits? We pay money to see a good game, and we should be expecting everyone on the team to contribute to win. I really don't think you can make a valid argument saying that watching an AL team is more "worth the money." What is worth the money is up to an individual to decide. If you love watching your team play, then it's always `worth' the money.

And anyway, Danny Haren hit a double during interleauge... Yabu seriously smoked a couple of balls. Noah Lowry is currently hitting .276 with an OBP of .381, and OPS at .770. Not bad, eh? It's only a big deal that a pitcher can hit because it's just not expected... So maybe we should raise our expectations.

With the DH around, even in the NL there is a mentality that pitchers don't need to learn how to hit, since no one expects them to do well. But it really is nice to see a pitcher hold his own offensively as well as defensively, and to help contribute to his own success. I think the DH is kind of silly, to be honest. Why create a position in which all a player does is hit? In a way, I think it's more logical to say that watching a DH play is not worth the money. If I went to a Britney Spears concert, I would want to see her dance and sing, not just dance and lip sync.

by Melody on Jun 6, 2005 5:34 PM PDT up reply actions

going to a brittany spears

concert would be your first mistake.

secondly, i would hope you would get to see her glitterly self dance and sing because that is what you'd be expecting. how well is a different matter.

in the al, you don't pay for a ticket expecting to see the pitchers hit.

now if you go to a nl game and the pitcher is up but gets replaced by a ph then you should feel like you didn't get your money's worth.

I actually like the dh in the al and not having it in the nl, I think its a good way of seperating the leagues. if anything, don't have interleague play. it's used for the same purpose of boosting attendence.

the purists don't like it, just like they don't like the dh rule.

let's just meet somewhere in the middle. watch a brittany video on mute and listen to the a's on 610.

self high five

by AllThingsOakland on Jun 6, 2005 8:23 PM PDT up reply actions

I don't think anyone...

wants to see Britney's fat, pregnant glittery self dance right now. Eww.

Go to the site... I'll love Zito forever! :)
www.myspace.com/greenandgoldpride

by GreenNGoldGirl on Jun 6, 2005 8:34 PM PDT up reply actions

The DH gives the NL stars:

A place to go to pasture.

Dave Parker, Dave Kingman, Dave Winfield...Oops I retract that...The DH gives the NL Stars named Dave a place to go to pasture...Even Chili Dave-is!!!

by saint on Jun 6, 2005 5:06 PM PDT reply actions

I love the DH...

and I love pitchers hitting in the NL. I like it the way it is. I like how I can watch an AL game and see offense throughout the lineup, and not have the pitchers worrying about hitting.

I also like watching pitchers try to hit in the NL from time to time...although it does keep scores down.

I think NL pitchers also dont concentrate on hitting as much b/c of the fear of injury at bat. Pitchers are supposed to concentrate on pitching, and if a pitcher gets hurt running to first or swinging a bat, that would be kinda stupid.

But I also agree that baseball is a complete sport. And pitchers should learn how to hit and be more complate players.

It's also true that its hard to get major league hitting down only playing once every five days. Look at CT, and he gets his batting practice in every day. Maybe it is better to have someone hit for them who can hit every day and get the ABs in it takes to be a productive hitter.

Yeah, I'm pretty torn. There's good points to be made on both sides. I guess if I have to pick, I like the DH better for the last reason I brought up, but I like the uniqueness of each league.

A's fan for life!!!

by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 6, 2005 5:47 PM PDT reply actions

the dh didn't exist at all in mlb, little league,

or softball leagues when I was a kid. If I'm not mistaken I think the AL was the first league to use it -- one of Charlie Finley's ideas that caught on.

I love the AL but I prefer NL style without the DH. I like that the manager has to be constantly thinking about how to manage substitutions, double switches, etc. It's probably just that I grew up without the DH...

by OaklandSi on Jun 6, 2005 6:18 PM PDT reply actions

Thanks

interesting that it didn't even exist in softball leagues prior to the AL adapting it.

I agree with you OaklandSi. I think the extra thinking that the manager has to do is more interesting. You have to use your full roster.

Look at the NL box scores and the AL box scores in the morning. At least in the Chron the NL ones are actually located in a manner to accomodate the fact that they're longer (more names) on average than the AL ones.

by david32 on Jun 6, 2005 7:17 PM PDT up reply actions

actually

it was tried as an experiment in a AAA league (international league?) in the late 60s before the AL adopted it in 73.

I own 2 Tony Armas jerseys! I am an A's fan for life.

by Athletics fan and runner on Jun 6, 2005 7:27 PM PDT up reply actions

interesting, I didn't know that

by OaklandSi on Jun 6, 2005 7:33 PM PDT up reply actions

ratings

I re-engaged my rating system for a minute, just to give you a good grade for actually answering my question. :-)

by david32 on Jun 6, 2005 7:18 PM PDT up reply actions

thanks!

by OaklandSi on Jun 6, 2005 7:21 PM PDT up reply actions

The AL was the first league to adopt DH.

It was adopted to increase offense and therefore attendance, and, as several here have stated, it was championed by our own Charlie Finley. Other leagues have adopted the DH for more or less the same reasons. The National League is just about the only league that doesn't use it. I disagree that the DH (which I like) takes away strategy from the game. With pitchers hitting, NL managers are forced use automatic strategies. The pitcher comes up with a man on first and less than two outs, he's going to bunt. 8th place hitter comes up with first base open and someone in scoring position, he's walked in favor of pitching to the pitcher. It's automatic. Where's the strategy in that? An AL manager can leave his pitcher in when he behind, but pitching well, instead of having to take him out for a pinch hitter. AL managers have more options, not less.

Green and Gold since '73

by kent1 on Jun 6, 2005 8:02 PM PDT reply actions

The DH

Is an important part of the offense. Sure we can all sit here and say how it is fun to see pitchers hit and it is fun, but I think pitchers hitting causes alot of problems.

The pitcher has enough to worry about without having to hit. One mistake can change a game.
Injuries - How many pitchers have gotten hurt hitting? Andy Pettitte? It cost him his season. Pitching is so valuable in today's game you want to take as little risk as possible reguarding their health.
Pitchers hitting changes the entire game. We say we like it now, but what happens when he have the bases loaded one out and Barry Zito comes up and ends the inning in a key sitation?

I like the way it is from an AL perspective. It's fun to see the pitcher grab a bat a couple times a year. I would't want to see my pitcher go out there every year. I think both sides should adapt a DH spot.

by SanTropez on Jun 6, 2005 8:11 PM PDT reply actions

My View on the DH - Good

I dont really like NL Ball, mainly because watching a pitcher come up and hit is boring as hell. All it seems to do is kill rallys.

But I dont want the NL to have a DH. That would ruin it.

I like how it is now because the NL and AL, essentialy, have only 1 Major Difference in rules. The DH in AL, no DH in NL. This makes the leagues so different, it changes the stratigys of the league. With out the DH in the AL and no DH in the NL, why bother even having two different leagues? They'd both be the same and there'd be no point.

"Pinata's promote violence against flamboyant animals"

by Zonis on Jun 6, 2005 9:15 PM PDT reply actions

I agree with this too...

...and to counter the argument that 'every player' should hit, just like in little league, etc, keep in mind that pitchers in those leagues usually pitch a lot more often than once every five days; therefore they are in the lineup quite a bit. By the time they reach the big leagues, they find it almost impossible to be a good consistant hitter (.285 and above) when you're only facing major league pitching once a week.

That being said, I like the differences between the AL and NL. Keeps it interesting, separates the leagues just a bit.

I WANNA LIKE BASEBALL AGAIN!

by baseballgirl on Jun 6, 2005 11:56 PM PDT up reply actions

Agreed.

I think it's nice having a difference between the leagues -- it adds significance to them. The different strategies, the different setups of the teams... I think it's a positive thing for the game. Plus, the DH provides countless hours of debate for baseball fans.

And Barry Zito is probably as strong an argument as any for why the DH should exist. Watching him in the batter's box is just plain hilarious.

by Kyli on Jun 7, 2005 6:17 AM PDT up reply actions

DH in the World Series

Check this out, it might surprise some of you:

The DH in the World Series

I thought it was pretty interesting myself

by Marc Normandin on Jun 7, 2005 12:52 PM PDT reply actions

Simple solution

Simply allow the manager to decide for each game when he fills the lineup card whether to use a DH or let his pitcher hit. I think the proof is in the pudding: we would see lots of DHing dispite all the rhetoric about "traditionalism."

by AlBowe on Jun 7, 2005 4:41 PM PDT reply actions