Dotel out for 1-2 years.

by OaktownPower on Jun 2, 2005 6:17 PM PDT Comment 91 comments

Athletics closer Octavio Dotel will have reconstructive elbow surgery as soon as possible, despite receiving recommendations from four doctors that he try to rehabilitate the injury first.

Dotel will be sidelined at least a year and possibly up to two years.

``Octavio does not feel he can pitch with the level of pain he was pitching with,'' A's trainer Larry Davis said Thursday. ``Everybody's tolerance level is different. Octavio feels like he's tried long enough. ... He's been throwing a long time and is tired of recurrent tendinitis.''

Dotel, who blew four saves in five outings from April 30 to May 11, had the elbow examined by Angels doctor Lewis Yocum and Dr. James Andrews in Birmingham, Ala. Andrews will perform the ligament replacement surgery.

``It's not anything anybody is doing handsprings over,'' Davis said of Dotel's decision. ``In our estimation, you'd like to have everybody give it another try before you do this, so you think you've done everything possible to avoid this.''

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Whoa!!!!!!!!!!

When the world says, "Give up," Hope whispers, "Try it one more time." ~Author Unknown.

by AsGirl on Jun 2, 2005 6:26 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Source? Link?

When the world says, "Give up," Hope whispers, "Try it one more time." ~Author Unknown.

by AsGirl on Jun 2, 2005 6:26 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Its on Yahoo right now.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news?slug=ap-athletics-dotelsurgery&prov=ap&type=lgns

Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Jun 2, 2005 6:27 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Just saw it

It's an AP article.

When the world says, "Give up," Hope whispers, "Try it one more time." ~Author Unknown.

by AsGirl on Jun 2, 2005 6:29 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Great ...

So much for trading Dotel this year, or even next year! I thought that he could possibly come back and help us but now we're stuck with $4+ million of nothing. The only good thing from this is now Huston Streets will be the closer.

by Fongpay on Jun 2, 2005 6:29 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Nightmare...

Wont get to get anything for him in trade...AND no draft pick cuz no one will sign him for much.

Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Jun 2, 2005 6:30 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Draft pick

Getting a draft pick isn't dependant on how much the player signs for. It is completely dependent upon how the player's stats rank. The ranking come out in the off-season and group players into pools (A,B, etc.)

by IndianaAsfan on Jun 2, 2005 9:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

A's must offer Dotel arbitration..

For the A's to receive compensation picks from another team the A's must offer Dotel arbitration. The A's can not offer a lower than 20% cut to Dotel's present contract.

Wade Miller with the Astros was in the same boat last year. The Astros did not want to risk paying him 4 million so the Red Sox hoped in and got him for 1 + million.

by dougald1 on Jun 3, 2005 6:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

It's on ESPN.com also

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2074677

by Fongpay on Jun 2, 2005 6:30 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Course..I wouldnt make it up :-)

Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Jun 2, 2005 6:32 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

holy shit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

if i'm beane, i'm threatening his life and if i'm his agent i'm actually doing it!!!

what a big mistake!!!!!

bye-bye, nice knowing dotel.

The "Free Matt Watson from Sacramento-Redux" Committee is back in business...taking new memberships...crap!!!

by bigelephant on Jun 2, 2005 6:30 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

What happens at season's end.....

I think his contract is trough this season only. Then he's a free agent. Zero trade value now. I thought maybe they would let him leave to get another "compensation" pick in the first round of next years draft since he would have been a type A free agent. I wonder what the rule is about a player out with an injury? ,Anyone Know out there in AN land?

by Mike Heath on Jun 2, 2005 6:34 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Cant imagine hes a type A....

Someone wil sign him toa 2 year low $$ deal like NYY did with Lieber.

Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Jun 2, 2005 6:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

He'd most likely be a type A

If not, he'd be a Type B. It's based on the past 3 years' stats. We wouldn't get the picks, though, because in order to do so, we'd need to offer him arbitration, which we wouldn't do because he'd accept it. Once he accepted it, the lowest salary he'd get is 80% of this year's salary, or about $2.5m.

The only reason we would ever give Dotel another thought is if we signed him to a 2 year deal for $.5m in '06 and $2.5m in '07.

The next time I slap a guy's ass, can we all just assume it's because I wish I was a baseball player?

by devo on Jun 2, 2005 9:06 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

can the a's void his contract...

...because the stubborn SOB is going AGAINST their medical recommendations?

The "Free Matt Watson from Sacramento-Redux" Committee is back in business...taking new memberships...crap!!!

by bigelephant on Jun 2, 2005 6:34 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Good question.

Surely if four doctors have said go rehab and he instead volunteers to take two years off (at full wage), he's breaking his contract...

Whether or not he's 'technically' doing that... he's doing it.

by Ozzz on Jun 3, 2005 3:22 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Okay...

He wants the surgery even though four doctors told him he didn't need it? And I thought the Chron reported he was going to play with the pain?

WTH?

PS- Go Huston!

by Jennifer on Jun 2, 2005 6:37 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

From what I've read

it's not that the doctors say Dotel doesn't need surgery, but that they suggested he try to rehab the injury and see if he can avoid surgery. the doctors are being quite conservative in trying to help him avoid the invasiveness of surgery (these are very good doctors -- the more run-of-the-mill surgeons like to cut as soon as possible. Dotel apparently tore a ligament perhaps a few years back (wonder if that showed up in exams before the A's traded for him?), which means he's been putting extra strain on that elbow for a while. Dotel pitched with pain last season and rested the elbow all winter long. It's true that other people can't determine whether the level of pain Dotel has been dealing with is acceptable or not. Only he can determine that.

by OaklandSi on Jun 3, 2005 5:13 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'm just mad this is costing us a trade/draft pick

Yes, it would be nice to have him available but we got Huston and then Kiko (oh god don't get hurt now you bitch) Calero and Bradford coming midseason.

"Don't you play the flute, Huddy?"

by capper3 on Jun 2, 2005 6:39 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

The good news is...

I just saved a bundle on my car insurance by switching to Geico!

Seriously, the good news is, he won't command big bucks in free agency anymore. Billy Beane just might be able to sign him to a minor league deal or an incentive-laden contract that might be able to bring him back for el cheapo when he's healthy again. It'll be a low-risk, high-reward signing. I'll take a flyer on Dotel if he's only going to cost us a guaranteed 500K or so.

by OaktownTribesman on Jun 2, 2005 6:41 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

He never excelled as a closer, but he'd be above-average as a set-up man, which I believe he did pretty well at in Houston.

by rubin sierra on Jun 2, 2005 7:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Signing Dotel

You really want to sign a player who is quitting on his team? This is absolutely incredible. I would void his contract if I were BB. Does insurance cover the 4 Million loss?

Let's Go Oak-Land!

by Colorado Fan on Jun 2, 2005 8:41 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Well

I'd rather he be put on the 60-day DL and open up a spot on the roster than him wasting a roster spot and blowing games pitching with pain...

by OaktownTribesman on Jun 2, 2005 8:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ken Macha show coming up

on KFRC.

When the world says, "Give up," Hope whispers, "Try it one more time." ~Author Unknown.

by AsGirl on Jun 2, 2005 6:41 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Tommy John surgery for Dotel

Ray Fosse reiterated that two doctors didn't advise surgery, but it's Dotel's decision.

When the world says, "Give up," Hope whispers, "Try it one more time." ~Author Unknown.

by AsGirl on Jun 2, 2005 6:50 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

As I said in another thread:

"I expect that the people who will soon be ripping Dotel the hardest for getting this surgery instead of trying to pitch through the pain are the exact same people who were ripping him when he was trying to pitch with this injury and did so ineffectively."

It sucks that the team is getting essentially no return on their investment in Dotel, but given how bad he was when trying to pitch hurt, that was probably going to be the case whether he opted for surgery or not.

by andeux on Jun 2, 2005 6:52 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

very good point

the man is tired of pitching with pain. let him have his surgery.

"You are Marine kids and can chew nails while other kids are sucking cotton candy!"...The Great Santini to his children.

by sf drift king on Jun 3, 2005 10:28 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Insurance?

I read on the A's fanhome board that Dotel's contract was insured, so the A's aren't going to lose too much money over this.

by OaktownTribesman on Jun 2, 2005 6:55 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Dotel is doing

what he feels is best forhis career. We may all want to rip him for it, but there is no loyalty in this buissness. Why should he do what he is uncomfortable with, so the A's can tade him? I have no problem with him doing this. If he comes back and deals, for whatever team he is with than more power to him. I am sure I will get ripped for this one but oh well. If I was in his position, tried to rehab from a reoccuring injury and it has not worked in the past, I would opt for surgery too.

A hot dog at the ball park is better than steak at the Ritz. --Humphrey Bogart

by West Bay A s Fan on Jun 2, 2005 6:57 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Maybe, but going against 4 Surgeons?

That makes little sense. He's risking his whole career...not like everyone has Tonny John and comes back to deal.

Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Jun 2, 2005 7:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

actually...

anymore, players come back just as strong as they were before

john smoltz, aj burnett, kris benson (remember, i said "just as strong as they were before"...not stronger or better)

tommy john surgery isn't the end of the world, but it does give him the "injury prone" label for the rest of his career

before you insult someone, walk a mile in their shoes. that way, you'll be a mile away from them, and you'll have their shoes.

by andyc on Jun 2, 2005 9:01 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I've had elbow tendinitis

since I threw my arm out in high school. I tried going to doctors, but with an HMO, you can't get anything done. All they want is fo you to rehab, rehab, rehab. I've dealt with it for nearly ten years, playing every Sunday. There are nights when I don't sleep because it hurts so bad. There are days after games that I can't raise my arm to wash my hair because of my elbow (sounds weird, but true).

If I could have surgery, I'd have it in a second. We're going to miss Dotel, but I can't be mad at him.

He's said that he's willing to stay in Oakland for cheap and that he feels bad about not earning his money. Hopefully he'll come back stronger than ever and for us. The worst part is that Houston dealt us damaged goods.

by RunRickeyRun on Jun 3, 2005 9:38 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Hmmm...

I think if he really cares about being fair (yeah right)...he should let us void his contract for the rest of THIS year..."Gratitude,in most men, is only a strong secret hope of greater favors"~Woody Allen

by accurate but not true on Jun 2, 2005 6:58 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Again

I think the A's had his contract insured...

by OaktownTribesman on Jun 2, 2005 7:00 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

ESPN

Seems to say we have to pay for his rehab this year, but nothing about the actual K.

Dotel is signed through this season, so the A's will finance his rehab until his contract expires. He is unlikely to do any baseball work for at least six months after surgery.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2074677

by ChavyGoldX4 on Jun 2, 2005 7:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Do you have link to this?

I'm interested. Thanks for the tidbit.

Fearing Mecir since 2000.

by salb918 on Jun 2, 2005 7:04 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

If your asking me

Its in the post. For the insured part, I would like to see it as well. Not saying it isnt the case, just want to read it.

by ChavyGoldX4 on Jun 2, 2005 7:05 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

The Contract is NOT insured

"A's general manager Billy Beane said he does not believe the contract is insured because it is just a one-year deal, and typically only multiyear contracts are covered."

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/06/03/SPGDUD33FP1.DTL

by ChavyGoldX4 on Jun 3, 2005 6:16 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Unfortunately...

even if the contract was insured, Dotel going against doctors' recommendations would make this "elective surgery" so the A's couldn't recoup even a portion of his contract.

What a raw deal all around.

Why does everybody stand up and sing "Take Me Out to the Ballgame" when they're already there? ~Larry Anderson

by lansfords1 on Jun 3, 2005 6:36 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

fuck dotel!

by Swish33 on Jun 2, 2005 7:03 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I remember Rotoworld I think sayin it

that Dotel seemed like he was going to go to every doctor he could find until one that said for him to have surgery.

Son of a bitch.

"Pinata's promote violence against flamboyant animals"

by Zonis on Jun 2, 2005 7:04 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Man...

I don't know if I can question Dotel's decisions without really knowing the pain, and the details that the public isn't really privy to...but since this is going to cost him a lot of money, I'm inclined to believe he just thinks he's doing what's best for his long-term health; though going against so many doctors certainly is fishy. Of course, being an A's fan before being a fan of any individual player, I just can't help but be so tremendously disappointed as to how much this hurts us. Dotel was going to be such a valuable trading chip if he performed at even a mediocre level. I mean, the Giants had to give two decent pitching prospects just to get Hawkins; and I think most people would rate Dotel (especially if he's throwing 95 with the good slider) head and shoulders above Hawkins. Basically, I figure this decision costs us at least one really solid pitching prospect or power-hitting OF'er; that's tough to swallow.

by kcfries on Jun 2, 2005 7:17 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

re

If he comes back cheap, this could be a blessing for him and us. We don't need him this year, and a revitalized Dotel would be better than anything we were going to get for him.

by 31Boots on Jun 2, 2005 7:19 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

He aint coming back to us....

I cant see that

Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Jun 2, 2005 7:19 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Why not?

He is going to miss this year. he will not get a huge contract from anyone. He can be affordable. Street is only 21 and as good as he may look, at that age I would not mind seeing him as a set up guy. If Dotel comes back from this surgery and is pain free and healthy, he will be one of the best bullpen pitchers out there. I just think, since we cannot trade him, might as well keep him for a "prove em" year.

A hot dog at the ball park is better than steak at the Ritz. --Humphrey Bogart

by West Bay A s Fan on Jun 2, 2005 7:36 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Because...

The Red Sox / Yankees will offer him more money, that's why. Also, when is the last time the A's took a "flyer" on an injured player? Not going to happen, Dotel backers.

Let's Go Oak-Land!

by Colorado Fan on Jun 2, 2005 8:44 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

They took one on Mark Ellis

Is anybody going to want to give big money to a hurt Dotel who might never be himself again? I don't think so. Teams sign relievers based on short-term need, so the Lieber comparisons aren't the best. I think we can sign Dotel for cheap, especially if he feels bad about letting the A's down.

by OaktownTribesman on Jun 2, 2005 8:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Injured Players given contracts

In all those cases, they were all still under their 0-3 or 4-6 Aby years.

Dye, the exception, was supposed to be fully healed.

"Pinata's promote violence against flamboyant animals"

by Zonis on Jun 2, 2005 11:48 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

The one who comes to mind

is Bradford, because he was acquired soon after having major back surgery. A lesser example (a "pre-existing injury" risk) would be Kotsay.

Nico

by Nico on Jun 2, 2005 11:20 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

How about Jermaine Dye?

He busted up his leg real good before we signed him to an extension

I'm the guy with the Carney Lansford jersey

by gojohn10 on Jun 2, 2005 11:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dye

But Jermaine was supposed to be fully healed the next year. Plus there was the factor of needing to make a signing to placate the fans after losing Giambi, Damon and Izzy that offseason. Those factors don't apply to this situation. I can't see BB signing a guy we know will be out for at least half, and quite possibly all, of next year.

by bigthree17 on Jun 2, 2005 11:35 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Kirk Sarlooss this season!!!

he was a non-roster invitee to spring training. Coming back from two operations I believe. he wasn't given much of a chance to make the team but, they agreed to give him a look and if nothing else let other teams "see" him has well if the A's released him. A class act from Billy and the orgainization. But, they never had to go that route since he did make the team as the fifth starter.

by Mike Heath on Jun 3, 2005 9:18 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dotel

Is in a different league than Saarloos, Bradford, Ellis, Dye, etc...Most of those players were arby eligible players, and couldn't go anywhere else... And Dye's leg was a bit different than a pitcher's freakin' elbow.

Tommy 'freakin' John surgery to a fireballer is a HUGE RISK. He may never hit 90 MPH on the radar again. That's a risk the A's will not take.

And Dotel saying that he would sign with the A's because he feels he owes them something is a crock of B.S. Of course he's going to say that. He's made a decision to have elbow surgery to correct tendinitis. Give me a friggin' break.

Let's Go Oak-Land!

by Colorado Fan on Jun 3, 2005 11:30 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

The best thing for the team

right now. Learn to do without him. Street like several of the "prospects" on the team is being thrown in green. He'll either make it or he won't. I won't criticize anyone for dealing with their health issues in their own way.

by bayfrank on Jun 2, 2005 7:47 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I honestly think he knew

that he was not healthy before we even signed him in the off season. Dammit, why didn't the A's give him the once over on medical exams before we gave him 4 mil? The whole thing just seems fishy to me y'all.

by mrod on Jun 2, 2005 8:00 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I think it's hypocritical

To lambast Dotel for his decision. Yea, it hurts us pretty bad (and me particularly since I have him in fantasy), but it's his career. He has to do what he thinks is best for his arm, seeing as it's a multi-million dollar commodity. Yea, a number of doctors advised against surgery, but he feels he can't play with that pain level. I can live with that. And if he does resign with us for a minor league contract, then that's great that we get at least some compensation. If not, them's the breaks.

by dchu on Jun 2, 2005 8:11 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

OMFG.

THANK GOD WE HAVE HUSTON!!!!!!

by gotgreen on Jun 2, 2005 8:13 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

The real deal....

This article was "fudged", it should have read like this:

After a visit to Mexico City, A's closer Octavio Dotel has agreed to surgery on his "hurt" arm.

Dotel visited with Dr. Fernando "El ni-fe'" Vasquez in Ilpaca, Mexico, a suburb of the larger city. Dr. Vasquez refrianed from comment about his pending malpractice suit from 1982 from which he was a Jr. Resident at Scripps Memorial Hospital in San Diego.

Dr. Vasquez immediatly fled the US when notified of the pending litigation involving the case where the doctor is alleged to have attached a horse uterus to the clavicle of Padres Minor League pitcher Russ "Don't call me pussy-shoulder" Biggs.

Lord Vader... ...yesss massster? ...RISE!!!

by Force on Jun 2, 2005 8:20 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Well, I guess I'm not too mad over this...

ok, he went against 4 doctors...but if he decided to pitch and just blew more saves, it would be stupid and we'd be mad he didn't go get surgery. I'll respect his decision, he knows his body better than anyone else, including AN.

Besides, now I get to see Street in and maturing as a closer. Since its a rebuilding/growth year, it will be good to see the young guy getting his kinks worked out (he's doing quite well so far, despite not having any save situations yet).

These things happen. It sucks we wont get anything for him, but I'm not going to get too worked up over it.

A's fan for life!!!

by ZeroIndulgence on Jun 2, 2005 8:36 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

What a class act

You can imagine my surprise when I read this:

Dotel hopes to be back in a game by the middle of next season, and he hopes it's with the A's. He feels he owes them something to earn his money -- even if his salary is lower and he has to be the setup man for rookie Huston Street, the new closer.

"Hey, if I've got to play for free, I'll do that," he said.

He also accepted the idea that it might be his last day in the Oakland clubhouse.

I think it's really cool that he said that. I didn't think he was that kind of guy - you know a lot of players would just take the cash and run. I have a newfound respect for Octavio.

by rickeytime on Jun 2, 2005 8:39 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Well that changes things

Sounds like he is a "stand-up" guy. That's great to hear.

independencefieldsac.org
Please help disabled kids in Sacramento play baseball by helping the Rivercats build a specially equipped field for them.

by kaweahkaweah on Jun 2, 2005 8:43 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I'll believe it...

...when i see it. Money has a strange way of changing "gut" instincts.

Let's Go Oak-Land!

by Colorado Fan on Jun 2, 2005 8:46 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks RickeyTime

I'm glad to hear this on the heels of my disappointment over Dotel bucking the advice of his surgeons. Obviously the pain distracts him too much...I guess now can live with his decision and appreciate his commitment to the team.

Lucky for me, I have absolute confidence in Street and am happy to see him get his shot this year. I really didn't think he'd be ready, but he's proven himself consistently.

by LD on Jun 2, 2005 11:17 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

On the bright side

I picked up Huston Street in my Fantasy league... well, I wish Dotel the best. I hope he remembers who paid him $4.5 mil for 15 innings and that maybe he feels a little loyalty to us...

The face of a child can say it all, especially the mouth part of the face.

by JJ on Jun 2, 2005 9:13 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I don't blame him at all

I can't get angry with Dotel for this, nor do I think the A's are worse off for his decision.

As others have mentioned, it's his arm and his career. If he misses as much time as everyone expects, he's giving up a lot of money for next year and maybe the year after. Further, both Barry Bonds and Curt Schilling tried to rush back, and look where they are now. It's not fair to say he's quitting on the team. The man pitched in pain for us as long as he could, and that almost surely made his injury worse.

As for the A's-- suppose Dotel had tried to rehab the injury. I have no idea what the timetable is, but I doubt he'd be back and pitching with any sort of effectiveness by the trade deadline. Who would give up anything for him in that situation?

Good luck, Octavio. I hope you make it back sooner rather than later.

by orange2299 on Jun 2, 2005 9:16 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Amen to That, orange2299!

How can any of us think that this decision is more painful for us as fans than it is for Dotel? This has got to be killing him.

He's already got a guaranteed contract for this year and he's essentially forfeited his salary for next season.

Octavio Dotel is a gamer. He pitched with guts (maybe not always brains) and he wanted the ball with the game on the line. He pitched through a lot of pain with the A's.

Was he perfect? No -- but he was a heck of a lot better than Arthur Rhodes.

Dotel put it all on the line for us when his elbow was clearly not right. Trust him.

by Eck on Jun 2, 2005 10:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Quitting midseason...

...how very Olmedo Saenz of him.

by bigthree17 on Jun 2, 2005 11:29 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

An objective veiw of Dotel

Like all of you this was disappointing news to hear, but none of us really know the pain he's going through. Actually I do for one, becuase I had the surgery done myself. Prior to the surgery your arm just feels lifeless. I was a catcher, so I used my arm a lot, but not as much as a pitcher.
A large number of people are now angry at Dotel for doing this, but why aren't we piling on Chad Bradford? He's been out all season. I know Dotel is going against numerous opinions, but what can we do?
The worst part of this whole thing is not being able to trade him this season.
However, if he is true to his word, and he recovers fully, plays for us for less then 4 million, that's a nice 8th inning guy to have behind Street.
We are playing great baseball this week, and are 4-0 since Crosby has come back, let's forget about Dotel. It is not like he has had anything to do with this winning streak anyway.
Calero will be back soon, and the bullpen has been very solid even without Calero in it.
The winning streak gets a real test tonight!

by Unuscione on Jun 3, 2005 1:01 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Dotel

He's not coming back.

The A's will get nothing in return.

I will wait to hear more news before passing judgment. But we may never know the whole truth, and it's not our arm or career.

It's too bad about the draft picks or possible trade, but you really never know. The players we would have received in return for Dotel, via trade or picks, may never have panned out.

by bear88 on Jun 3, 2005 1:34 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

It was Dotel's decision

And it was based on what he feels is best for him (apparently not what 4 doctors believed was best for him). It definitely costs the A's in terms of opportunity, when you think that he could have been a great bargaining chip for Billy,possible draft picks, or if he followed the doctor's recommendations, perhaps he could have come back sooner. I guess he has the right to make an "I" decision, and I have the right to not like it.
"Hero: A man who is afraid to run away."~ Mother Theresa

by accurate but not true on Jun 3, 2005 6:41 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

the cynical part of me

wonders if Dotel really wants to get TJ surgery and is gambling on it making him a better pitcher. I think he would've consulted doctor after doctor till he found one who would've done the operation.

Whatever. Good luck to him. I hope his arm doesn't fall off.

I have faith.

by BillybUcko on Jun 3, 2005 8:45 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dotel

Once Dotel went on the DL, there's no way Beane would've gotten anything better than Olmedo Saenz for him. Trading him as "damaged goods" would only be worse for the A's reputation and make any future trades difficult.

by OaktownTribesman on Jun 3, 2005 8:53 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bobby Crosby is a QUITTER

Crosby sucks. He's a quitter and a whiner. "Two broken ribs," my ass. He quit on the first day of the season because he knew the A's would suck this year and he wanted out.

/close sarcasm tag

My word, what vitriol we have here from a smattering of folks.

Me, I'm with andeux, bear88 et al. We're not Dotel, we don't know exactly how much pain he's been in, and we're not the ones assuming the risk for the surgery.

I personally can't imagine what it would be like to have to deal with excruciating pain simply to complete the basic requirements of my job every day. I call in sick when I break a fingernail.

Plus, even as semi-routine as TJ surgery has become, it's not like he's getting his tonsils out or having a tummy tuck -- this is reconstructive surgery we're talking about, on a piece of his anatomy that's not just his meal ticket but a huge part of his being able to lead a normal physical life.

by monkeyball on Jun 3, 2005 7:40 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Give Dotel Some Credit

On the worst day of his career, he goes out of his way to lavish praise on Street. In Urban's article on the team site, he says Street will be a star and talks about how he'll be able to brag one day that he helped teach him how to close.
That's very classy, and worthy of respect.

These things -- devastating injuries -- will happen, and you can't rip the players for their fallible bodies.

Good luck, OD.

by SportySpice on Jun 3, 2005 9:34 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

Good luck Dotel.

by RunRickeyRun on Jun 3, 2005 9:40 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

thanks

for that post. I hope others read it too.

Dotel is doing what is best for his entire life. I wish the best of luck to him and I hope to see him pitching in G&G again one day.

The face of a child can say it all, especially the mouth part of the face.

by JJ on Jun 3, 2005 11:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

THANK YOU

I've been really critical of Dotel for how unnecessarily suspenseful his innings always are, but had no idea he was just being advised to "just pitch through the pain." What a crock. It's his right to take his own arm to a surgeon if he feels the pain is too unacceptable and has an effect on his ability to perform. As others in this thread (and most of Dotel's teammates, too, for that matter) have already said, no one knows how Dotel's arm actually feels except Dotel. And he seems to have been really classy & supportive of Huston Street all along. I've also read that the A's were already aware of damage to one of the ligaments (the ulnar collateral ligament, I think) even before signing him in the first place, so it's not like the team is just being taken for a ride. I say GOOD LUCK to Dotel, I hope all goes well for him, and I would love to see him and a healthy arm working for us in a couple of years as setup... especially if it could be for cheap...

by Poppy on Jun 3, 2005 1:45 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dotel Rips-off A's

Let's see: Octavio Dotel, for about a month of substandard work, will collect a salary of nearly $3 mil from the A's in 2005. Moreover, they will get no draft compensation for him, no insurance money, and obviously won't be able to trade him.

In the words of the Chron's Susan Slusser: By opting for surgery, "Dotel is going against the recommendations of two team doctors and two renowned arm experts."

Now he "graciously" told BB that after he rehabs some 1-2 years down the line, he would pitch "free" for the A's. Why doesn't he do that in 2005 and return a pro-rated sum of his $2.8 salary? After all, Dotel has rejected the evaluation of two team doctors and world famous MD experts. And in doing so, the A's get next-to-nothing for their money.

Looks like for two straight seasons, the A's have been ripped-off by closers: First Foulked by Foulke's pretense of bargaining when he really wanted to be paid top dollar by the BoSox and now by Don't Tell Me Dotel's rejection of expert medical advice.

I'd say the A's would have a good case in court not to compensate this freeloader...

by reztips on Jun 3, 2005 9:37 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

My problem with Dotel

It's not that he wants surgery. That aspect doesn't really bother me so much. It's just that knowing the advice of these four doctors, and knowing he'd be out for 1-2 YEARS, he's still not willing to at least try rehab before electing to go under the knife. That's just disappointing.

by bigthree17 on Jun 3, 2005 9:57 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Don't Ask...

Do Tel

Bring Back The Bash! Bring Back The Stash! Bring back Ricky one more time!!! Go A'S!!!!

by Shippee33 on Jun 3, 2005 11:07 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Dotel Surgery

It's better to let him have the surgery than to blow more saves. We're much better off with Street , Calero and Duch healthy than an injured Dotel. Anyone remeber two ghuys named Millar and Varitek?

Any genuis that says Beane should void his contract is incredibly ignorant. Go blog on ESPN with lame comments like that. His arm is jacked. It's not like he was going to pitch tommorow, HE IS INJURED. He would have missed so much time anyway. Now we can clear a roster spot for him.

Am I the only one who felt that he did not really want to be here anyway? Now he can shop himself to a number of teams, instead of ending up whereever Billy sent him, which we all knew was happeneing.

by Dat270 on Jun 3, 2005 11:26 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I would agree...

...but 4 professional doctors said that surgery would not be in his best interest. Rehab would be a better option.

From what I'm hearing, he went against all doctors orders, and found a doctor in Mexico who said that TJ Surgery was his best alternative.

Seems weird.

Let's Go Oak-Land!

by Colorado Fan on Jun 3, 2005 12:02 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dr. in Mexico?!???!!

That didn't happen... it was stated as a joke in one of the threads on this board, that's all.

You may have been joking, too, but it didn't come off that way.

by LD on Jun 3, 2005 2:03 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Whatever...

I can find a doctor that says I'm unfit to do my job (carpel tunnel?), collect workers compensation, and go to the beach...but I won't do that because I respect my co-workers (and myself) too much.

Let's Go Oak-Land!

by Colorado Fan on Jun 3, 2005 2:55 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh, and also

because if you did, the company that carries your workers' comp policy would find you at the beach typing messages to AN on your laptop, and bust your ass for insurance fraud.

Give me a break. I'm not saying that this sort of fraud doesn't sometimes happen. Of course there are some scammers out there. But it's not like anyone can go out and find a doctor to get them free workers' comp for life just like that, and the only thing that prevents us all from doing it is respect for our co-workers.

by iglew on Jun 4, 2005 1:50 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

so easy

to bag on people from the sidelines.
the man is obviously in pain.
how many players out there would have even made the gesture that he did?
good luck OD.

i heard it on the new 610 AM, hell is full of red sox fans.

by JMC on Jun 3, 2005 12:05 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

agreed

It's obvious that he wanted the surgery and that's why he went to so many doctors for an opinion. If he really wanted to piss the organization off, he would of went with the surgery after just seeing 1 doctor. Dotel probably won't play for free (is that even doable?) but he did make that gesture. I know a bunch of Giant fans who would love it if Bonds said something like that.

The guy is putting his life in front of baseball, I can't fault him for that. When I heard the news yesterday I was pissed, but from what I've read, no doctor has said that he would certainly not need surgery at a later date. He is doing what is best for him and his family.

Good luck on the surgery and rehab Dotel, hope to see you back in the green & gold soon.

self high five

by AllThingsOakland on Jun 3, 2005 12:30 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dotel quotes

"I hope I can come back and earn my money," Dotel said. "[Even] if I've gotta be a setup man for Street."

Dotel went as far as to say he'd pitch for the A's for free next season if he's able to beat the standard recovery time, and he told Beane the same thing.

"A noble gesture," Beane said. "Let's hope we both have that option. ... These surgeries do take a long time to come back from."

by Alex on Jun 3, 2005 1:19 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Dotel

Surgery or rehab or continue pitching in pain? No option he chose would help the A's this year.

by oscarwdog on Jun 3, 2005 4:19 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Or, he could have at least attempted rehab.

by bigthree17 on Jun 3, 2005 4:56 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

From November 18, 1966

NOVEMBER 18, 1966....Los Angeles Dodgers' pitching ace Sandy Koufax, age 30, announces his retirement at a news conference in Los Angeles. Koufax goes on the voluntary retires list and foregoes his $125,000 salary for 1967. The hard throwing left-hander says he wants to quit now before risking any further damage to his arthritic left elbow. He first experienced trouble with the elbow in 1964.
----------------------

How come he didn't try to pitch with a prosthetic arm before abandoning the Dodgers like that?

by orange2299 on Jun 4, 2005 3:38 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs