Billy, please dismantle this lineup

by EastBayTeam on May 8, 2005 5:30 PM PDT

After suffering last year through all those LOBs, and now enduring this embarrassing and tormenting five weeks, I need to be put out of my misery. Billy, please toss Byrnes, Durazo, Hatteberg and Chavez overboard. It's at the point where I'm rooting against Chavez in the hope that he'll retire. He looks miserable enough, and if he retires, he forfeits his contract, right? Otherwise this guy is a franchise-killer.

Time to rebuild. Stock the farm system with sluggers. Hope they develop before Blanton, Harden and Haren move on to the big money teams. But I'm tired of watching these hacks up there.

Thank God for Tivo and the double-bloop option. That saved me these past two games against the Yank-me's.

It wouldn't be so bad if we didn't keep getting runners on base. If we were just totally talentless, there would be no room for disappointment.

Let the dismantling come. Let's have a team that is fresh, with no "A's Disease" (see playoffs, 2000-2003, regular season 2004, April/May 2005).

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Statements like...

"It's at the point where I'm rooting against Chavez in the hope that he'll retire. "

make me root against this thread.

"Put a Milo on him."
-Billy Beane

by kaweahkaweah on May 8, 2005 5:37 PM PDT reply actions

Well Said.

by JaysFan16 on May 8, 2005 5:56 PM PDT up reply actions

A true A's fan

would hope for Chavez to leave this team. This guy is a disaster, an absolute franchise killer. Our future will only be bright when this guy moves on to another pasture. I actually think this would do him good. I know he mulled over retirement early in his ML career. So why not now? Give us back the $66M, and we all go home happy.

by EastBayTeam on May 8, 2005 6:46 PM PDT up reply actions

You're right...

He's had a bad April, so let's dump him!!!! Past accomplishments be damned. Nonsense.

"Put a Milo on him."
-Billy Beane

by kaweahkaweah on May 8, 2005 6:49 PM PDT up reply actions

The past accomplishments?

It's not just a bad April though. Chavez has consistently underperformed since 2001. The team pretty much sank as soon as he came off the DL last year. Or at the very least: we put together our strongest run WITHOUT HIM. He's never stepped up and become the superstar that he's getting paid to be. Even if he comes back this year, it's too late to really have a good season (see Tejada, 2003). I question his heart, confidence, and ability to perform. This is not from five weeks of awfulness. This is from watching this guy since 1999. As much as I love and admire BB, and as much as I thought he was making the right choice in March 2004, this contract will go down as his biggest mistake. A catastrophe for the organization. At best, it will be a mere disappointment.

by EastBayTeam on May 8, 2005 7:00 PM PDT up reply actions

Chavez is not "paid to be a superstar"

You have to shell out a lot more than 6x11 if you want a superstar.

Try 7x17 = 119 very large ones for Carlos Beltran.

by floyd on May 8, 2005 7:42 PM PDT up reply actions

Who do you replace him with?

Well, if you're going to get rid of Chavy then I'm assuming you have a better candidate to replace him. Who would be better over there that the A's could realistically get?

by limecat on May 8, 2005 11:57 PM PDT up reply actions

Shared Concerns...

There is no reason to think that a dismantlement process is the only option. I do think that Macha NEEDS to at least shift the lineup around. DAMN NEAR EVERY MANAGER IN THE BIGS DOES WHY NOT KEN MACHA. Andruw Jones gets of to a bad start, BAM Cox has him hitting 7th, Rangers Hidalgo has been hitting 8th. The examples are endless, if for no other reason than change I want to see Chavez hitting 7th or 8th, WHY NOT? Shake things up. Slide Kendall and Chavez down. Slide Scutaro up to the two slot. Move Kotsay down to 3. Let Ellis lead off, let Kielty and Durazo share time in the clean-up role. I mean there are options cant we at least try one of them.

by JSCHWAN on May 8, 2005 5:50 PM PDT reply actions

You're waiting for Chavez to retire

thus forfeiting 50 million smackers?

Um, I hope you brought some snacks.

by floyd on May 8, 2005 6:00 PM PDT reply actions

Good point, floyd--

Chavy has to save up because a good psychoanalyst doesn't come cheap ; --> )

Nico

by Nico on May 8, 2005 6:04 PM PDT reply actions

i swear to you people

this line-up IS NOTthat far off...it just needs a brass balls SOB clean-up hitter to bat in the 4 slot. this line-up screams out for one.

REALLY!!!!! I PROMISE!!!!!

The "Free Matt Watson from Sacramento" Committee is now taking new members. Membership is free.

by bigelephant on May 8, 2005 6:10 PM PDT reply actions

Chavez and Byrnes

Both suggested today in Urban's game wrap on Mlb.com, that they wouldn't mind a lineup shift to get something going ... how come Macha won't listen?

by Crosbino on May 8, 2005 6:20 PM PDT reply actions

Byrnes in the #2 slot...

looks like a no-brainer to me:
Byrnes in the #2 spot - 2005:
AVG OBP SLG OPS
.400 .429 .750 1.179

Move Chavez down to #5 or #6. It can't be any worse than this.

"The sun was bad, but was it any worse than it's been the last 10,000 years? I'm gonna say no." -- Eric Byrnes

by FoolshGame22 on May 8, 2005 11:33 PM PDT up reply actions

durazo

has been hitting well recently. Durazo and Hatte are NOT the problem, in my opinion. Kendall not hitting is more serious in my mind and Chavez has sucked to the high heavens.

by nycfan @ Athletics Nation on May 8, 2005 6:22 PM PDT reply actions

You'd better not

have your fingers crossed, BigE.

Nico

by Nico on May 8, 2005 6:23 PM PDT reply actions

its the only thing thats left nico!!!!

really, outside of firing the hitting coach (not a bad idea IMO , firing macha (probably won't do much good) the REAL answer is getting in a power hitting clean-up hitter (r u all as tired of me saying this as i am of typing it???).

The "Free Matt Watson from Sacramento" Committee is now taking new members. Membership is free.

by bigelephant on May 8, 2005 7:02 PM PDT up reply actions

Lineup change would be a minimum

My jaw drops every time I see the Franchise-Killer in the 3 spot. Macha is a bad broken record. Even Chavez wants to be put out of his misery and out of the spotlight. My lineup would be as follows:

Kendall
Scutaro
Kotsay
Durazo
Kielty
Hatteberg
Ellis
Charlic Byrnomas
Franchise Killer

As for dropping Durazo overboard, he's the only one with power (if you can even call it that on this team), but he's gone in a few months anyway. I'm trying to look forward to 2007. Hell, I'm just trying to look forward to something -- anything -- for this team.

by EastBayTeam on May 8, 2005 6:39 PM PDT reply actions

To put Chavez

#9 would be publicly humiliating and totally unnecessary. #6 is more what Chavez probably had in mind.

How would you feel if your boss publicly humiliated you in front of all your co-workers and all the customers? How about if he also did it in front of the media?

The game is played, and managed, by people, not robots. I think your strategy is better suited to Stratomatic, my friend.

Nico

by Nico on May 8, 2005 6:45 PM PDT reply actions

Chavez's humiliation

The idea that Macha can publicly humiliate Chavez beyond what Chavez is already doing to himself does not seem credible to me. Maybe Chavez would thrives under the humiliation anyway. After all, he improved his defense after some early-career humiliations there.

We need to get him motivated in simple terms. Moving him way down in the order where he can inflict minimal damage is in the team's best interests.

by EastBayTeam on May 8, 2005 6:48 PM PDT up reply actions

chavez

no matter how terrible he's been or how much we hate watching him like this, i would bet everything i have that other teams still consider him the best hitter on the a's. he may not be doing so hot right now, but i still believe that other teams have respect for him and believe he'll turn it around. the #9 spot is just a ridiculous idea.

by nycfan @ Athletics Nation on May 8, 2005 7:09 PM PDT reply actions

respect for Chavez

Yes, other teams respect him. When I watch the out of town broadcasts, they always say, "I hope Chavez doesn't wake up during this series." But the reality is that the lineup is exceptionally weak, and we all knew that going in. The only hope was that Chavez and Durazo would have good years. But Chavez is respected because everyone else is so bad.

I'm beginning to think that the real fluke was last year, not this year. I mean, Byrnes hitting 20 homers? Hatteberg hitting almost .300? Durazo hitting over .300? Maybe last year was the fluke, and this year we're just all back to earth.

At least we know one thing: Dye's year last year wasn't a fluke!

by EastBayTeam on May 8, 2005 7:14 PM PDT up reply actions

chavez

i think people respect him independently of how good or bad everyone else in our lineup is. the fact is, he's a very good hitter and other teams recognize that he WILL be a good hitter, even this year. I'm just hoping it's soon because it's incredibly painful right now.

ruby may have had a career year last year, but he's been warming up a little these past few games. he'll be fine and he'll be productive.

and i can't stand eric byrnes so i'll agree in a heartbeat that last year is a fluke and that he stinks offensively and defensively.

BUT i think if you're going to call last year a fluke then you have to call this year (thus far) a fluke as well. to have a group of experienced major leaguers hitting well below their career standards is not to be expected. ruby and chavez will have good years, kotsay will hit, hopefully bobby comes back strong and swish continues to develop, and kendall and hatte will get on base. i really do think we'll be fine.

i hope.

this, of course, doesn't mean that macha has to twiddle his thumbs and wait for something to happen. that's my job. i agree with changing up the lineup, but chavez at #9? not only will that never happen, it shouldn't.

by nycfan @ Athletics Nation on May 8, 2005 7:27 PM PDT up reply actions

Look,

you know I've been hard on Chavez. But this stuff is crazy ... no one's gonna hit Chavez 9th.
That being said, stop saying Chavez is going to have a "good year." He would have to go absolutely crazy starting tomorrow to accomplish that. You need to accept the fact this is going to be a tough season on Chavez as well as the team in general.
A "good season" for Chavez is 35-45 HR's -- 110 RBI -- .275-.285 average. Anything less has to be considered a disappointment. Even the most die-hard Chavez supporters would agree with this.

VacaAsFan

by Vacafan on May 8, 2005 8:37 PM PDT reply actions

I don't quite agree, vacafan

I agree that it's too late for him to have a CONSISTENT year, which is what I most want, and feel most frustrated he does not provide. But he doesn't need to hit 35-45 HRs to have a good year, when he's NEVER hit 40+ HRs.

If he were to end up .273/33/105, he would fall short of your "requirements" for a good season in every category--and it would not only be a "statistically solid" season overall, but would mean a truly excellent performance from tomorrow through the rest of the season, which would be quite nice thank you very much.

It's not too late for him to put up good numbers. Unfortunately, it's already too late for him to provide the consistency we've been waiting, and hoping, for.

Nico

by Nico on May 8, 2005 10:16 PM PDT reply actions

Oh, one other thing...

He doesn't have to go "absolutely crazy" to put up those numbers. If he hits .300 the rest of the season, he will finish right at your "requirement" for a good season: he would finish at .280

Nico

by Nico on May 8, 2005 10:18 PM PDT reply actions

Chavez isn't feared

It doesn't look like opposing pitchers fear him much anymore. With 13BBs/26SOs it's pretty clear they aren't pitching around him. A Chavez AB is pretty simple, fast ball down the middle, strike one. Breaking ball away, strike two. High/Inside fastball taken for ball 1. Offspeed outside, fould ball. Fastball over the middle, strike three.

by KMoAsFan on May 9, 2005 1:14 AM PDT reply actions

good points Nico...

and i think I alluded to this in one of the many threads on this topic...Chavez's averages point to him getting to .270/30/100. And he's done this by starting slow every season. I still believe he's bound to turn around and get back to his averages, and when he does he'll really be an asset to the team.

Also, 6 years for 66 mil is not superstar payment. It's very good players payment, so, yes, Chavez needs to step it up; but .270/30/100 is worth about 66 mil over 6 years in MLB today.

Finally, a lineup shift would be good. I had something like this in mind:

Scutaro
Kotsay
Kielty
Durazo
Kendall
Chavez
Hatteberg
Ellis
Byrnes

Scoot's been getting on base, might as well put him #1. Kotsay likes hitting up front, might as well leave him 2. Kielty's been hitting well lately, and would be the best bet to hit Scoot and Kots in when they get on base...Kendall and Chavez wont be humiliated by a move to 5 and 6. The rest is self explanatory. Some version of this might work, but then again, I'm not a MLB manager (yet), so what do i know?

A's fan for life!!!

by ZeroIndulgence on May 9, 2005 1:20 AM PDT reply actions

Jumped the shark during the 2nd sentence!

And this after such a promising start:

...I need to be put out of my misery.

LMAO

http://www.cafehayek.com ~ a blog for classical liberals

by LowcountryJoe on May 9, 2005 4:30 AM PDT reply actions

Chavez

Ok everybody agrees that Chavyy is having a really bad year, but in Chavyy defense, nobody will pitch him anything in the zone with SCOTT HATTEBERG hitting behind him, Chavyy doesn't have any protection in this line-up, Durazo has been hitting better in the last few games and everybody has more respect for Durazo than Hatty, so Macha should put Durazo behind CHAVEZ or even better find a good RH bat an put him behind him...

by Olijerez77 on May 9, 2005 6:52 AM PDT reply actions