The future of the #5 spot....

by EastCoastA on May 3, 2005 9:07 PM PDT Comment 15 comments

Though I am quite willing to listen to contrary opinions, I think tonight's game showed us what we have in Captain Kirk Sarloos: a pitcher who can be reasonably effective for 5 innings and/or 80 pitches, who then rapidly goes downhill afterwards. Given the youth of our rotation, is having such a pitcher in our rotation worthwhile, given the potential strain on the 'pen?

Of course, Sarloos is keeping the spot warm until Meyer is deemed ready. (Isn't there some sort of arbitration rule that makes the first hearing a year later if the player comes to the majors after May as opposed to before, like what happened to Dontrelle Willis? This might signal when we can expect Meyer.) Therefore, a solution outside the organization is unlikely.

A previous diary mentioned Duke as a possible starter, but his value to the bullpen and Meyer's impending arrival make such a move highly unlikely. How about putting Yabu in the rotation? Then, Kirk could pitch in 3-4 inning outings from the bullpen, a role in which he could be very effective.

This would of course depend on how effective Yabu could be as a starter. So what do you guys think: Give Yabu a shot, or keep Sarloos in the rotation?

Poll

Who should be the #5 starter?

Meyer (The future is now!)

6 votes

Sarloos (Keep the faith)

15 votes

Yabu (Give him a shot)

17 votes

38 votes | Poll has closed

0 recs | Comment 15 comments

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Comments

I say

Put Yabu in the spot. He has looked good so far. Let's see what we're paying him a million dollars for.

You might want to put a poll for this topic, by the way.

"We tend to scoff at the beliefs of the ancients. But we can't scoff at them personally, to their faces, and this is what annoys me." Jack Handey

by davebenfremont on May 3, 2005 10:04 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

They're not going to rush Meyer

"First of all, I'm not calm about it. Every time they lose, I freak out." - Andy Painter

by secret ASian man on May 3, 2005 10:08 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Why are you worried about the 5 spot

If they don't hit, they caoul have Clemens in the 5 spot and it won't matter. Kirk is not doing bad for a number 5

by theblackpearl on May 3, 2005 10:10 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I'd say

Yabu's numbers look better than he's pitched, because mop-up appearances are inherently easier and he has allowed several runs charged to other people. I'm not saying he's a bad pitcher (and he's looked better lately in more important situations) but I wouldn't judge him by the numbers alone and say "he's been great." In the balance, I'd argue that he and Saarloos have pitched closer to equally well than one has pitched 5.00ERA better than the other.

Yes, Saarloos is a 5-6 inning pitcher, but that's standard #5 stuff. It's more of a strain on the bullpen that Zito is a 6IP guy because he's in a spot where you expect more. The problem for Saarloos tonight was (broken record) the A's inability to score runs. If he had led 3-1 after 5 instead of trailing 1-0, Macha could have pulled him after 5 and gone into set-up/close mode with his best guys.

If the A's were scoring runs even at an average clip, all the pitching problems would look insignificant.

Nico

by Nico on May 3, 2005 10:17 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

saarlos

I agree with Nico. Saarloos is about what you can expect from a 5th starter even though he is in the 3rd slot now. I hear the A's will be re-shuffling the rotation to get Zito and Harden more starts against the Yanks/Sox. So Saarlos might be missing a start anyway.

by Reggie on May 3, 2005 10:31 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

About Yabu's numbers looking 'better'

Yabu has done an amazing job in the past four days, but I'm not quite sure if he's ready yet for the starting rotation. He hasn't been perfect, and I feel as if he's another 'heart attack' pitcher, especailly when he comes in with runners on. [Then again, I was feeling pretty good about Justin Duchscherer coming in today, so my gut feeling probably real off.]

I also agree about Saarloos, someone mentioned a few weeks ago that our starting pitchers shouldn't feel as if they have to pitch a shutout game to have a chance to win. I think today's loss in regards to pitching is that 1) Saarloos felt the pressure of falling behind and his control got worse, and 2) partially that he's not that hard of a pitcher to hit if you know what to expect.

The more I think about it, the more I want to see Saarloos in the bullpen. I think that would be a better fit for him. He seems like a very good compliment to Duchscherer's style, although I'm not sure if having a fourth [fifth? Is Rincon the only lefty?] right handed pitcher in the bullpen is very smart either.

by Melody on May 3, 2005 10:40 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

a couple random notes, melody

I think the problem with Saarloos was that he wasn't actually pitching that well the first 4 2/3. Many 2-0, 3-0, 3-1 counts--overall, more balls than strikes through 85 pitches. It was bound to catch up to him, and because of the score Macha couldn't pull him as quickly as he could have if he was in Calero/Dotel "plan A" mode.
I was surprised at this myself, but Duke has now allowed 6 of 9 inherited runners to score.

Nico

by Nico on May 3, 2005 10:47 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

So you have good points, as always :)

I have to admit that I wasn't really following the game closely... I just figured that he was doing a pretty good job since he wasn't allowing many hits, and he only walked two people prior to the 6th inning. He had no strikeouts, but his stats still lead to the assumption that he was at least controlling the strike zone and getting groundball/flyball outs. I guess the problem with a non-strikeout pitcher is that sooner or later, some of those balls are going to fall in for base hits.

I think the only person who has really been good at holding people on base so far has been Octavio Dotel.

by Melody on May 4, 2005 12:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Meyer will come up when he's ready...

I'd like to see Yabu try out the 5th spot. Might as well, eh?

by ZeroIndulgence on May 3, 2005 10:18 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Arby clock won't start this year

if Meyer is called up after the allstar break (mid-July), but it will if he is called up earlier.

by OaklandSi on May 4, 2005 4:57 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Saarloos is NOT acceptable

Granted, he can look good for a few innings, but he also can fall apart quickly. A 5.64 ERA is not acceptable for a ML starter - at least not on a team that hopes to contend. He has 14 BBs and 6 Ks in 30 IPs! He looks like he could be another Duke out of the pen. Give Yabu a few starts and get ready for Meyer in June.

by boilerdan on May 4, 2005 6:14 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

The Pen Blew It For Saarloos

I think Saarloos is a very good #5 starter. Take last nights game for example. Captain Kirk was pitching a shutout and got into a little bit of a jam. Macha brings in the pen to bail him out and The Duke has his worst inning of the year and the earned runs go to Kirk. I would be interested to see how the bullpen has performed in games Kirk has started. My guess is that they haven't been that good in those games. We all know he is keeping the spot warm for Meyer; but he has pitched well for a #5 guy.

by RandyKutcherHair on May 4, 2005 6:19 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

I disagree

5.64 is not good enough for anyone, anywhere on a major league staff. He shouldn't have to bailed out that early in the game.

What gets me is that there's been all this talk about how Duke can't go more than once through a lineup - with NO EVIDENCE of that. I think Saarloos is clearly showing that it just takes teams a bit to adjust, then they rock him.

by boilerdan on May 4, 2005 8:56 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Saarloos has kept the A's in almost every start

but he is a typical sinker baller - when he tires he loses the strike zone and it unravels quickly . However, that is no different than Corey Lidle and others. Right now Saarloos is a 5-6 inning pitcher. Zito is a 6-7 inning pitcher. Only Harden is a horse. Blanton and Harren are also 6 inning guys so far.
More critically the A's have scored almost no runs for Saarloos so the margin of error is tiny and the amount of pressing in the 5th and 6th inning is huge. Seeing lost scoring opportunities does imapct the starters - you saw it on Harden's face Monday and Saarloos last night.
The A's starters are a combined 5-12 but could easily be 12-5 if the A's would score any runs. Saarloos has lost 2 games in six starts - the A's are 3-3 in his starts - not bad for #5 on a losing team.

by Aparicio11 on May 4, 2005 6:48 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Good points, Aparicio11

and I think the A's are actually 4-2 in Saarloos' starts. The bottom line is that with an average offense that was hitting all of .250 with RISP, Macha could manage a little differently, Saarloos would have a 4.50ERA, and our #5 starter would be a huge non-issue on a "wow, the A's are so much better than we expected" 15-10 team.

Nico

by Nico on May 4, 2005 7:36 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs