Dotel's Elbow Trouble- Blessing or Curse?

by bigelephant on May 18, 2005 6:02 AM PDT Comment 27 comments

Well, with the sudden rash of injuries the A's have experienced of late, should it be any surprise that Dotel's elbow is now barking'?

I think we could count on one hand how many sliders Dotel has thrown since ST. Lefthanded batters are tuning Dotel at .991 OPS. and he's fastball has lost 2-3 mph.

Now we receive word that Tuesday Dotel walked in and reported elbow discomfort and is scheduled to see and Ortho-Doc. This is reported in:

http:/www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?=/chronicle/archive/2005/05/18/SPG2ACQSHD1.DTL

So, who is the closer. I know some on this site don't think labeling one guy in the pen as "the closer" is a big deal-but I respectfully disagree. One guy needs to be "the bull" in the pen.

I suggest Street is probably ready. Give the kid the ball and see what happens. In the long run, this might be beneficial for both Street and the A's.

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sorry, here is that link again:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/chronicle/archive/2005/05/18/SPGZACQSHD1.DTL

The "Free Matt Watson from Sacramento" Committee has been successful...Matty is on the loose, PUT HIM IN KENNY!!!!

by bigelephant on May 18, 2005 6:12 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

we're screwed

i hate being an alarmist, but dotel going on the DL would be beyond a disaster. who does that leave us who is somewhat decent in the pen? street and rincon? yabu has been totally unpredictable. harikkala is NOT the answer. calero is gone until god knows when. who knows how effective the duke will be when he comes back? and we'll probably have to use him sparingly. cruz is still a mystery, going from fabulous to horrendous in a blink of an eye. some of our best AAA pitchers are hurting as well.

damn damn DAMN.

by nycfan on May 18, 2005 6:53 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

it's jairo garcia time!

"Popcorn pictures have always ruled. Why do people go see them? Why is the public so stupid? That's not my fault." --George Lucas on Star Wars

by xbhaskarx on May 18, 2005 6:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

ya, i'd agree-garcia probably gets called

i have been wondering...is there one guy out there on the a's, or on another team, who is an average starter but would be a ass kickin' closer-like izzy and eck? maybe beane needs to go mining for a diamond?

The "Free Matt Watson from Sacramento" Committee has been successful...Matty is on the loose, PUT HIM IN KENNY!!!!

by bigelephant on May 18, 2005 7:03 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

closer???

who needs a closer? street will do fine until dotel gets back, and he'll also do fine once dotel is traded.

garcia can be the 8th inning guy until calero is back. everyone else should be yabu/duke-style long relief, that is what the bullpen needs more of, given the starting pitching situation...
if anything, get rid of the rincon/bradford types, that is a luxury this year, this team needs relief pitchers that can go 3 innings at a time, not 2 batters.

"Popcorn pictures have always ruled. Why do people go see them? Why is the public so stupid? That's not my fault." --George Lucas on Star Wars

by xbhaskarx on May 18, 2005 7:15 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

You're right

In this roidless era of slow recovery time, we can't afford to waste money and roster spots on oogies (one-out guys). And a note to Macha: Cruz is a roogy, not a long-man, not a starter. The reason he failed as a starter in the Bigs is that he can't get left-handed hitters out. Worse splits than Rincon.

Beane should experiment a bullpen consisting of a closer, a setup man, and a handful of Justin Duchscherer types. Average to below average former starters who can pitch multiple innnigs. I'm thinking John Rheinecker could serve as one. Not to mention Yabu and Saarloos.

by OaktownTribesman on May 18, 2005 7:37 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

great minds think alike!

there you go, that's four long relief guys: yabu, duke, saarloos, rheinecker. or perhaps etherton if he can finally be successful at the major league level.

look at all the blown saves this year, that has to partially be due to slow-recovery time.
why not have two closers instead of one?
both street and dotel should be closing games. or street and garcia if dotel is traded. or dotel and garcia (with street as the setup man) if calero is injured or no longer effective.

rethinking relief pitching in the post-roids era (or in the a's young and shaky starting pitchers era) seems very necessary, and oogies are definitely the odd men out (rincon and bradford, i'm not sure where cruz fits in), as more long relief and closer types are necessary.

maybe the a's front office will get on this as the new thing, before other teams do.

"Popcorn pictures have always ruled. Why do people go see them? Why is the public so stupid? That's not my fault." --George Lucas on Star Wars

by xbhaskarx on May 18, 2005 8:14 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

only problem is

Rheinecker is on the DL.

Saarloos and Etherton are in the rotation for at least two more weeks and possibly longer.

I mean we barely have enough pitchers to start for the River Cats, let alone fill up this staff.

oaktoon

by oaktoon on May 18, 2005 12:13 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Screwed?

Yes, I think that would be the right word if that is the situation.

"Put a Milo on him."
-Billy Beane

by kaweahkaweah on May 18, 2005 7:12 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

This is terrible

Now we can't even trade him for anything good. If he goes on the DL, that's money wasted and that's never a good thing.

by OaktownTribesman on May 18, 2005 7:00 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I think that is the key...

It kills his trade value now and even diminishes when he comes back cuz you dont want to deal for anyone who has had elbow trouble. Shit

Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on May 18, 2005 8:33 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dotel's elbow

I read about it this morning. Macha said that if Dotel was available, he would have pitched the eighth, and not Cruz.
Gawd, this is not good news. As shaky as Dotel's been, with all the injuries the A's have, this is the last thing we need.

When the world says, "Give up," Hope whispers, "Try it one more time." ~Author Unknown. LET's GO OAKLAND!!!

by AsGirl on May 18, 2005 7:25 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

How quickly the A's 2005 strength

-- relief pitching -- becomes a weakness.

is it simply bad luck, all these injuries to the relivers (and to Harden as well)?

Or is something wrong with the way they are being prepared, monitored, and used?

by OaklandSi on May 18, 2005 7:45 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Rick Peterson

He might've been a bit loony, but he knew about mechanics and what it took to avoid injury. Curt Young's "hands off" approach isn't helping one bit.

by OaktownTribesman on May 18, 2005 7:49 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

back to my question 4 a sec:

what if beane could go out and trade for an "average starter" and make him into to a closer. dotel was a starter when he came in with the Mets. Toronto made Batista their closer and he has been very effective?

Is there that type of guy out there? Like, maybe, a J. Fogg in Pitts?

The "Free Matt Watson from Sacramento" Committee has been successful...Matty is on the loose, PUT HIM IN KENNY!!!!

by bigelephant on May 18, 2005 8:35 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

cubs

i believe the cubs are currently trying it with dempster while borowski is out...

"Popcorn pictures have always ruled. Why do people go see them? Why is the public so stupid? That's not my fault." --George Lucas on Star Wars

by xbhaskarx on May 18, 2005 8:39 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

plus, i heard borowski is back soon

but the cubs 'pen is in a shambles too...so dempster probably not the answer. beane is really caught here, he has no trading chips- players of any value are either hurt or under-performing. the a's might need to ride this out until everyone returns.

The "Free Matt Watson from Sacramento" Committee has been successful...Matty is on the loose, PUT HIM IN KENNY!!!!

by bigelephant on May 18, 2005 8:44 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

but the more important point is

that your solution makes no sense right now.

the a's can't turn starting pitchers into closers at the moment because they only have two reliable starting pitcher to begin with, and the main guy is currently injured for up to 6 weeks.

any halfway decent starting pitcher acquired by the a's should be...starting!

maybe last year that would have been a good idea, though, turning a starter into a closer instead of going after rhodes or dotel.

"Popcorn pictures have always ruled. Why do people go see them? Why is the public so stupid? That's not my fault." --George Lucas on Star Wars

by xbhaskarx on May 18, 2005 8:54 AM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

No closer, No problem

You have to actually be winning in the 9th inning to need a closer and since that rarely happens, we'll be fine without one. I mean, does Tampa Bay need a good closer? Because, that's what we are right now, Tampa Bay. Playing terrible all around (bat pitching, bad hitting, bad defense).

I said at the beginning of the season that we were an 82-80 team, but I now think that's the BEST CASE SCENARIO and more likely a 70-win team. 70-win teams don't need $4+MM closers (although would like them to be healthy to trade).

by jubjub on May 18, 2005 8:59 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Dotel Needs To Stay off ...

the DL list. He won't be overworked like last year and is a tradeable commodity. Depending on the role another team will place him in, he may not have to remain the "Closer", just the "Holder". If he is hurt, and BigE your suspicions may be correct, he still is very servicable. Most pitcher's elbows can be considered blessings or curses depending on how they are being used. I don't think BB is sweating it yet with Dotel. If we see a droppoff down to eg 88 MPH, then I'd start worrying. In the future I foresee Dallas, Huston and Jairo closing things out for the A's.

"If you burn your mouth on soup, you end up blowing on your yogurt"-Romanian Proverb

by Gerard on May 18, 2005 9:35 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

when you're only going to win 55-65 games

.... not having a closer isn't a big deal

this is an opportunity.

it's another opportunity of 'tryouts' at the major-league level.

all positions and pitching slots are open for 'real-game' competition, except CF, 3B and C ... oh yeah and SS when Crosby comes back.

2005 is a year of extended Spring Training.

by HerbWashington on May 18, 2005 10:16 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Dotel's to Blame

If only Dotel would adhere to the "Moneyball" principles we hold so dear and get on base. His OPS of 0.000 is killing us.

by stjp5 on May 18, 2005 11:02 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

Becoming a Peterson believer

Bobby Cox and the Atlanta staff "somehow" avoid injuries and, in general, get the most out of their pitchers.

With Peterson, we didn't have so many pitchers' injuries. Maybe it's a coincidence, maybe not. But for me, I'm starting to believe in the Peterson karma.

The face of a child can say it all, especially the mouth part of the face.

by JJ on May 18, 2005 11:18 AM PDT reply actions 0 recs

I always believed

Young has shown me nothing in a year plus to indicate that he's up to the responsibility at this level of managing, fine-tuning and keeping a pitching staff healthy.

oaktoon

by oaktoon on May 18, 2005 12:14 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

Another good example

of converting starter to closer is Dustin Hermanson. Earlier examples include mediocre starter Goose Gossage and Tom Gordon. But the only guys in the A's current rotation with that potential are Harden and Haren, and it ain't happening, nor should it.

Dotel injured, blessing or curse? Hmm...I'll take "curse" for $800, Alex.

Nico

by Nico on May 18, 2005 1:19 PM PDT reply actions 0 recs

yeah, i don't really get the name of this diary...

"Popcorn pictures have always ruled. Why do people go see them? Why is the public so stupid? That's not my fault." --George Lucas on Star Wars

by xbhaskarx on May 18, 2005 1:36 PM PDT up reply actions 0 recs

confused about the title?

Blessing:

find what street has got re: closer role
elbow problem explains dotel's recent problems closing games and not throwing his slider
opportunity to find another pitcher to slide into closer role

Curse: