Unhappy Tejada wants to be traded

Ellis for Tejada straight up!!!!!!!

"Don't you play the flute, Huddy?"

by capper3 on Dec 8, 2005 4:32 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

tejada

I think this must have bean said after the renteria deal because accordin to espn tejada said he would like to play for the redsox

Manny for miggy? Then trade manny for pitching?

by sctr76 on Dec 9, 2005 5:28 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I was thinking

the same thing. It would be interesting; both teams could spin it to sell to the fans their desire to "upgrade."

by IndianaAsfan on Dec 9, 2005 9:59 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Beat me to it Brian

Reunion, anyone?

I don't hate, I just respond aggressively to stupidity

by grover on Dec 8, 2005 4:33 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I'd love that.

And get Huddy and Mulder back too?

by arch on Dec 8, 2005 4:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I know it's a pipe dream but I'd LOVE to see Miggy back in an A's uniform. Just for fun what do you think it would take to get Tejada back? Zito/Ellis for Miggy? Slide Crosby to 2B and put Tejada back at SS.

We can be considered David, David knocks out Goliath. -Eric Chavez PT-42

by norcaldevilasu on Dec 8, 2005 4:34 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Just occured to me

Couple things actually. Baltimore had to know about Miggy's unhappiness, perhaps that's what spurred them to sign Ramon.

How about this for a blockbuster?

Miggy for Manny.

I don't hate, I just respond aggressively to stupidity

by grover on Dec 8, 2005 4:37 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Miggy for Manny

I think that would be huge for the Red Sox. How about Kendall for Miggy!

by RunRickeyRun on Dec 8, 2005 4:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Tempting

But you might be stretching reality just a tad. Do you really think Baltimore needs 3 multi-millionaire catchers?

What what is your problem with Tomlinson?!

I don't hate, I just respond aggressively to stupidity

by grover on Dec 8, 2005 4:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I was probably sadder to see Tejada leave

than any other A in recent years. I would love to see him back...but at what cost?

by OaklandSi on Dec 8, 2005 4:37 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Juan Cruz + Ginter + Macha for Miggy?

by arch on Dec 8, 2005 4:40 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree

He was the saddest loss, I believe it has to do with the integrity in which he handled himself. ie. not going on Letterman and badmouthing Oakland like a certain roiding ex-A's first baseman.

"...His energy, preparation, his thoroughness, his word choice---he is without peer." Greg Papa on Bill King

by westsideclubbin on Dec 9, 2005 9:06 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Yes, good point

But have you ever actually been to Oakland?

Matt, who has been to Oakland and finds its negative reputation to be unfounded in a lot of ways.

Best Barry In The Bay Area.

by TwistNHook on Dec 9, 2005 9:53 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

wow life would be great

with tejada back, give them zito and ellis dammit, just get it done billy ( really i haven't checked numbers or anything, so i'm not sure if could be done ) but hell that would be great

ohio roots

by nickatt7 on Dec 8, 2005 4:38 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Tejada for Chavvy!

"I'm so green and gold that I hang on every pitch, not just every game." - Lew Wolff

by BleacherDrummer on Dec 8, 2005 4:40 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

The best trade proposal,

in recent memory!

by arch on Dec 8, 2005 4:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

you beat me to it.

by sf drift king on Dec 8, 2005 4:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Booo

It's getting easier for me to get used to not having Tejada. This is not classy.

The time to pick a winning team was when he was a free agent. He chose to sign a long term contract with a team coming off six straight fourth place finishes, a team that shares a division with the Red Sox and Yankees. For that decision, he made a whole lot of money.

As Jack Aubrey might say, he has chosen his cake and must lie in it - or is it, he has made his bed and must eat it?

by matthias on Dec 8, 2005 4:41 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

if I remember correctly

the only teams that made offers to Miggy were Baltimore, Detroit and Seattle.

by OaklandSi on Dec 8, 2005 4:45 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Sadly, agree

This is too bad, and I wondered aloud when Tejada left whether he would be happy playing for a perennial loser. I fell awful for him, but that's the nature of free agency.

Tejada's time in Oakland is over, and I'll always remember those days fondly. But there's no way we pick up that contract for Tejada's decline phase.

Copernicus felt the same way about the geocentric crew.

by salb918 on Dec 8, 2005 4:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Decline phase?

Miggy turns 30 next year and is signed through 2009, when he'll be 33. That's hardly an age to worry about a drastic decline in skills.

I don't hate, I just respond aggressively to stupidity

by grover on Dec 8, 2005 4:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

that's presuming ...

... he's actually as young as he claims he is. And I won't even get into the "vitamin B12" issues ...

@('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 8, 2005 5:03 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Age

He'd of been found out in 2004 when he signed his new contract. Hell, I don't think he's an American citizen, so he'd need to get a new visa every year. Homeland Security isn't what it's supposed to be but I think they would have caught him by now.

I don't hate, I just respond aggressively to stupidity

by grover on Dec 8, 2005 5:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

DR papers

With that kind of moolah he could easily get his hands on "official" fake papers in the DR to cover up his age.

by OaktownTribesman on Dec 8, 2005 5:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Some big name prospects have

been nabbed.

You telling me they couldn't drop the $500 bucks it would take to get some A1 fake ID?

I don't hate, I just respond aggressively to stupidity

by grover on Dec 8, 2005 5:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed...

He made his bed, now he has to lie in it. He could have taken less money to play for the A's, or another winning team. He wanted the paycheck and thats what he got.

I loved Miggy, but this kinda makes me not like him anymore. Hes just another player who took the money and ran, and when things are going bad, he wants out. Why not stick it out? Support you team Miggy. Its not like the Orioles havent tried. They brought in Sosa, palmeiro, javvy Lopez. Suck it up dude. At least your making 70 million.

President of the Brent Gates Fan Club

by SoCal As Fan on Dec 8, 2005 5:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Not sure he could have taken less...

and stayed with the A's. He was not even made an offer.

by easyraider on Dec 8, 2005 5:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Because he was too expensive.

Otherwise he would have simply signed an extension. It's not like Billy wouldn't have asked him for a ballpark figure.

by Ozzz on Dec 9, 2005 1:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Officially no offer was made

I am sure they had an idea he would be too expensive and maybe there were some unofficial discussions on a ballpark figure but who knows. We can really only go by what was made public.

by easyraider on Dec 9, 2005 3:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

The A's announced before his walk year started

that they would't even make an offer or negotiate an extension. Miggy said publicly that he would give a hometown discount.

So he never had the option to take less money to stay with the A's.

by OaklandSi on Dec 8, 2005 5:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

shoulda had him...

ten bucks says if wolfe was our owner when we had miggy we would have kept him...

by dpetri2000 on Dec 8, 2005 11:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

i accept paypal

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 9, 2005 12:48 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

But

if you remember, they did offer him a contract (albiet a lousy offer) at the end of the year. They really lowballed him, but they did offer none the less.

President of the Brent Gates Fan Club

by SoCal As Fan on Dec 9, 2005 9:29 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

It's the contract dollars

Baltimore is unfortunately on the hook, and won't move Miguel and pay for the priviledge too.

Well, you can lay this whole mess at the feet of the Players' Association. Would Miggy have played for less and stayed in Oakland? Yes, no doubt. Would the PU squawk at a first time FA giving a discount? Big YES! They tried to get after Tony Gwynn, when he only wanted to stay his entire career with one club! But Gwynn had the stature to say, "Get lost PU, I write my own ticket".
Why should anyone sign for more than 2-3 years, if they're good, and REALLY want to win the WS??? You can live pretty well on $6million a year. Why the guarantee for six years? Your agent's happiness??

"Don't go getting all Alexander Haig on me, either." Beane to Forst at GM winter meetings.

by Ducts on the Pawn on Dec 8, 2005 4:43 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Tejada had said he wanted a long term contract

for stability's sake. He mentioned the school issue for his kids. Now, perhaps that is illusory, given that he can still get traded. But I can understand his reasoning.

by OaklandSi on Dec 8, 2005 4:47 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

And all the owners

would give away season tickets for a box of gumdrops and a hand-made valentine card if it wasn't for the big, mean Owners' Union making them all greedy! Booey!

Players like Tejada want stability and money because...people tend to like stability and money. Did anyone hassle Chavez about his contract extension? Or Giles about re-signing with the Pads? The MLBPA didn't want ARod tearing up an exiting contract to facilitate a deal, but do you have any examples of any player not being "allowed" to sign for less money or fewer years somewhere by big, bad Donald Fehr? Do you have a link for the Gwynn story you tell? And did anything bad happen to Gwynn because he stayed with SD? Is there some reason someone from the union staff, or another player who's elected to the Executive Committee, shouldn't call him up just to talk about his contract, if that indeed happened?

The vast majority of players realize that, if they weren't organized in a union, and if they start stabbing each other in the back, they'll go back to the Baseball Plantation of yesteryear. These guys aren't all idiots, and blaming Tejada's decision on Fehr or anyone else is an insult to Tejada and to the players as a whole.

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Dec 8, 2005 5:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Bah

I think you're missing the point. No one is blaming him for taking the most lucrative deal, but to complain 2 years in is kind of funny...the team has made an effort to get better, obviously its not working out so far. I love Tejada as a player but his comments are a bit much, IMO.

Players are just as greedy as the owners on the whole. And yes, Donald Fehr is a total jackass along with most of the player reps.

Whatever Jose Canseco says must be true

by WiscoFan on Dec 8, 2005 6:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Tejada whining

Oh, I agree, this kind of whining isn't really impressive. I was responding to Ducts' assertion that "You can lay this whole mess at the feet of the Players' Association." Well, to the extent that if the players had never organized, they'd still be team vassals, yes, that's true. But it's not anyone's "fault" that Tejada signed the contract he did except Tejada, Baltimore's management, and to some extent Tejada's agent.

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Dec 8, 2005 6:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Well, not to make too fine a point

I would grant that I didn't go into a lot of detail about my thesis, but I was attempting to say by "mess" meaning, NOT a particular player, because I think Tejada is a good guy, but the situation where a player is a free agent. He may have some priorities (i.e., long term stability for kids, playing for a winner, playing with particular players) and he wishes to get a lot of money. If he puts a BIGGER priority on anything BUT top dollar, especially if you're A-Rod, or an MVP hitting 30+ HRs, pressure is put upon you to take the "biggest money" deal instead of perhaps taking a (1) shorter term deal (2) less money to play elsewhere. Like with Keith Foulke, he said year-by-year, the diff with Boston seemed not to matter, but his wife said, "Four Million Dollars is aLOT of money!" So he went to Boston for $27 instead of Oakland for $23Million.

No question the players are getting payback for the 120 years of owner parsimony, and it's just in an overall sense. But some carry more of a burden, and some are rewarded MORE than deserved, because of the system the PU set up.

"Don't go getting all Alexander Haig on me, either." Beane to Forst at GM winter meetings.

by Ducts on the Pawn on Dec 8, 2005 10:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

You think this is bad

You should see some guy named Terrell Owens

by Alon on Dec 8, 2005 7:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

LETS GO OAKLAND!

ginter + cruz + kendall + kennedy for TEJADA. I would drop out of college and use my tuition money for season tix if he came back. (><)

YABU: You're always eating cheese. ...Is cheese good for you? . FISCHER: IT'S BETTER THAN SUSHI!!!

by ConditionOakland on Dec 8, 2005 4:43 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

LOL!

Don't forget Rincon!

"Our team has always been like, 'You're a rookie? OK, here's the ball,'" Barry Zito

by 510inDenver on Dec 9, 2005 10:10 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

And Macha!

N/T

by Ozzz on Dec 9, 2005 1:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

trade

Ellis, Zito and a minor leaguer for Tejada and Erik Bedard? We move Crosby to 2nd and we're set there. Bedard isn't an ace but would be a solid middle of the rotation guy a couple years off Tommy-John surgery.

by 415goas on Dec 8, 2005 4:44 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Mora and Tejada

for Chavez, Barton, and Duchserer.

by drudown on Dec 8, 2005 4:46 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Wait

care to explain why this deal would be good for us? and how it would be affordable???

eagerly waiting...

And yes, I'm very protective of my Daric Barton. He's already my favorite player, and only 3 years older than me.

by Alon on Dec 8, 2005 7:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Because...

We already know what Tejada is- He is the best shortstop in the game, a treasure to the fans and to the community, and best of all, in love with Oakland.

I'm not one of the guys who blasts Chavez, and in fact like the guy and am happy to have him on the team. he is however, not in the same league as Tejada. While he is capable of big numbers and has had some nice seasons, I don't think he strikes FEAR into opponents like Tejada does.

Mora would be a more than suitable replacement for him. To give something you have to get something. Any hypothetical deal (and thats all this is) would have to involve Chavez to balance the salaries.

Barton, while obviously the class of our entire minor league system, is still just a minor leaguer. A great one at that, but still a minor leaguer. I wouldn't normally justify mortgaging our future, but Tejada is so exceptional I don't wouldn't see it as mortgaging anything. It would be a calculated gamble- four years of Tejada now vs. 6 or more of Barton later.

The Duke sweetens the pot for the O's, whose bullpen just took a big hit and are in need of quality arms, starter or reliever.

by drudown on Dec 8, 2005 8:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Right.

And if we don't win the WS next year, does Miggy come out in the press again and angle for another trade?

Because, reading his words, that seems to be all that matters to him - winning.

by Ozzz on Dec 9, 2005 1:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Miggy for

the rights to ever playing Santa Clara County.

Sincerely,
Gwen Knapp

by RunRickeyRun on Dec 8, 2005 4:47 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Miggy and John Waters

for Chavvy and Chris Columbus, Frank Coppola, Josh Kornbluth, and Phil Kauffman

Heck, I'd even throw in JT LeRoy for a commemorative Edgar Allen Poe keychain.

@('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 8, 2005 4:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Reality check

I doubt that Baltimore is going to trade Tejada, but if they're going to consider it.

What if the A's offered a deal centered around Crosby?

I don't hate, I just respond aggressively to stupidity

by grover on Dec 8, 2005 4:47 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I was just going to mention that

by OaklandSi on Dec 8, 2005 4:48 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Isn't he 30?

And there's 5 years left on the contract? For a LOT of money.

I may get skewered for this but I don't want him back under those circumstances.

"How much room do I have to cover out here?" -- Kotsay

by Sharon on Dec 8, 2005 4:50 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

30 in May 06

He's got 4 more years on his contract and he'll be 33 when this current deal is through.

I don't hate, I just respond aggressively to stupidity

by grover on Dec 8, 2005 4:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

eh...

if you factor in the "B-12"...

See, I'm a murderer, I kill what I eat. I'm a hunter-gatherer, I kill what I eat. I'm a steelworker, I kill what I eat. I'm a bricklayer, I kill what I eat.

by Cutthemullet on Dec 8, 2005 4:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

They've been testing for 2 years now

And Miggy's been clean.

So either he doesn't juice or he's smart enough to avoid getting caught.

I don't hate, I just respond aggressively to stupidity

by grover on Dec 8, 2005 5:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

If You Believe the Testing is Legit ....

I sure don't.

When somebody's been injecting "B-12" for years it raises red flags real fast for me.

I wouldn't take the risk that Miggy is headed on a downward slope, at his "age" and with his "background." (OK, enough with the quotations.)

No matter where our stars go -- Orioles, Yankees, Braves, Cardinals -- they had the most fun in their lives with Oakland, while making much less money.

Lesson 1: Money doesn't make you happy.

Lesson 2: Oakland is a really special place.

by SportySpice on Dec 9, 2005 6:58 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Lesson 3:

MLB isn't testing for Human Growth Hormone, amphetamines, or masking agents that make steroids undetectable.

Thus, the sport is still dirty.

by Ozzz on Dec 9, 2005 1:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I thought they were?

wasn't that what the new steriod deal was about?

Simming Offseason.....

by robber23 on Dec 12, 2005 11:29 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I'd rather have Crosby than Tejada.

But that's just me.

by gdubb925 on Dec 8, 2005 5:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I'd rather halve Frank Thomas

You'd still be left with two full-sized major-league players!

@('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 8, 2005 5:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I think it is pretty much agreeable...

That A's fans would GIVE ANYTHING TO HAVE MIGGY BACK.

YABU: You're always eating cheese. ...Is cheese good for you? . FISCHER: IT'S BETTER THAN SUSHI!!!

by ConditionOakland on Dec 8, 2005 4:50 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

No.

Some of us look at a guy who walked with a big fat check bitching about wanting a move just two seasons later, as a sign of questionable character.

Dude can mash, but cough*B12*cough

by Ozzz on Dec 9, 2005 1:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

If we wanted an overpriced shortstop

we could've just signed Furcal, who is both younger and better than Tejeda. Only thing Tejeda has on Furcal is a flashy amount of power.

by rickeytime on Dec 8, 2005 4:51 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

In no universe

Is Rafael Furcal a better player than Miguel Tejada.

A Beane in the hand is worth $60M in payroll

by jeepers on Dec 8, 2005 4:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

oh yeah?

compare WARPs:
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/dt/furcara01.shtml
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/dt/tejadmi01.shtml

Tejada has a much higher VORP only due to his power, as I mentioned before. Now since Furcal is entering his prime, and Tejeda is beginning to decline, I'd take Furcal's contract over Tejada's any day of the week.

by rickeytime on Dec 8, 2005 5:04 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

the only problem...

Tejada could lift the clubhouse up, and give us that extra push in pressure situations, while seemingly Furcal just seems to get a DUI every now and then.

How much more is Tejada than Furcal? I'm unsure of their contract specifics.

YABU: You're always eating cheese. ...Is cheese good for you? . FISCHER: IT'S BETTER THAN SUSHI!!!

by ConditionOakland on Dec 8, 2005 5:11 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Is Tejada lifting the Baltimore clubhouse up?

By talking in the press about how he wants out?

by Ozzz on Dec 9, 2005 1:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Thanks for making my argument

I'll take the .815 OPS (from a very good shortstop) over the .757 any day (also a very good shortstop). The 22 point differential in VORP works for me, too.

Tejada, age 29: 4 yr/48M, 12M per
Furcal, age 27: 3 yr/39M, 13M per

If Tejada has five more years like this, he's a first ballot Hall of Famer. If Furcal has 7 more years like his, he's getting on the ballot with maybe a token vote or two. It isn't even close.

A Beane in the hand is worth $60M in payroll

by jeepers on Dec 8, 2005 5:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

actually, the contract is a key difference

I think Miggie is the much better player - but only having 3 years left, instead of 4 is a big plus for Furcal's deal.

Check out some awesome music ...

by devo on Dec 8, 2005 5:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

It's a point in his favor

But if you offered either guy to the A's at that price/years, who would you take? I'm pretty sure Miggy is not going to be washed up by 33.

A Beane in the hand is worth $60M in payroll

by jeepers on Dec 8, 2005 5:25 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Miggie, no question,

see my PECOTA point below.

Check out some awesome music ...

by devo on Dec 8, 2005 5:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

PECOTA hasn't been updated to include

the 2005 season - but their relative ages has not changed in the last year. Despite his seniority, PECOTA projected Miggie to have a higher VORP every year through 2009 - with a double digit spread until the very last year.

They're not even close.

Check out some awesome music ...

by devo on Dec 8, 2005 5:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

check again

I'm not sure which line you were looking at, but checking your links, BP has Tejada with a higher WARP3 than Furcal this past season, and he almost doubled Furcal's WARP3 last year. Doesn't sound like Furcal is the better player to me.

by el generico on Dec 9, 2005 9:19 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Good Lord....

Furcal better than Tejada? Haha. That's classic.

Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Dec 8, 2005 5:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I can hear the drums already

TEJADA!

Not gonna happen, though. Miggy for Chavy would balance the books, and that's the only way it could work. Not sure we really need to do that.

A Beane in the hand is worth $60M in payroll

by jeepers on Dec 8, 2005 4:52 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

To Hell with the books

Isn't this why we've got new ownership? Spend the money and bring Miggy home.

I don't hate, I just respond aggressively to stupidity

by grover on Dec 8, 2005 4:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I hate to say it

but steroids are now a real concern in the majors. Miggy might test positive next year, and if so, its a risk with waaaaay too many dollar signs attached to it, esp. with the whole BALCO thing happening right in the backyard of the A's while Miggy was here. I love the guy, but it's not worth it.

by noava22 on Dec 8, 2005 4:55 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

C'mon already...

First Abreu and now Miggy? You seem to think that every big name non-Oakland A that the team might have the slightest interest in is on 'roids!

I don't hate, I just respond aggressively to stupidity

by grover on Dec 8, 2005 4:57 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

i understand the consternation

however, its just something that seems to not be brought into the conversation, at all, and i wanted to add that to the viewpoint. personally, i think miggy is and abreu isnt, but i know just as much as you do.

by noava22 on Dec 8, 2005 5:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

He's been tested for two years

When does he get to be labeled "clean"?

I don't hate, I just respond aggressively to stupidity

by grover on Dec 8, 2005 5:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

when HGH is included in testing

as well as other substances that are considered 'performance enhancing'. The tests are far from all inclusive, and there are still rather easy ways to get around the tests, if you're smart.

Also, if I remember correctly, testing isn't "blanket" testing, it's random testing. There is a chance Miggy didn't get tested, no?

by noava22 on Dec 8, 2005 5:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Everyone gets tested

There was an article last season where at least half the A's big league roster had to get tested all at once.

Random means MLB can order testing whenever they want.

I don't hate, I just respond aggressively to stupidity

by grover on Dec 8, 2005 5:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

OK..but HGH wont be tested next year either...

So how will he test positive for it?

I despise the rampany rumors on steroids. You have no reason to toss Tejada's name around like that with steroids...it is irresponsible.

Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Dec 8, 2005 5:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't trust anybody in MLB ...

if a player weighs more than a buck seventy, I'm suspicious.

Huddy and Cruz can stay, everybody else needs to get replaced by players who can't afford designer 'roids.

Check out some awesome music ...

by devo on Dec 8, 2005 5:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Haha...

Man, Huddy would dominate.

Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Dec 8, 2005 5:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Ha..

Big Boy Blanton would be screwed...he just looks guilty.

"You know I don't like beautiful, well put together women, give me a nice nose break or a lazy eye." Johnny Drama

by rook on Dec 8, 2005 5:55 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

The point wasn't whether or not he's a worthwhile

investment, which is an entirely different point altogether. The question was "when will he be labeled clean?" In my mind, that won't be until there is testing for HGH. MLB pulled a sleight of hand, really placating congress while allowing their dog and pony show of illegal substances to continue. Is it an improvement? Yes. But more can, and should, be done.

In terms of investment, I don't see the point when we already have a great duo up the middle with Ellis and Crosby, with Crosby being a potential superstar and guys like Melillo and Pennington breathing down Ellis' neck for a shot in the bigs. We're deep at 2nd, organizationally, and Bobby is here for years to come.

by noava22 on Dec 8, 2005 5:34 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

testing

it may not include HGH, but it does include amphetamines, and that's huge, to the point where anonymous managers are being quoted as saying that their guys are going to need a lot more days off this year...so yeah, here's your chance, Ginter

See, I'm a murderer, I kill what I eat. I'm a hunter-gatherer, I kill what I eat. I'm a steelworker, I kill what I eat. I'm a bricklayer, I kill what I eat.

by Cutthemullet on Dec 8, 2005 6:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

well, not that it excuses anything

but a player being on HGH isn't a concern for a team signing/acquiring him, since it can't be tested for and there is little chance that it will be in the near future.

Check out some awesome music ...

by devo on Dec 8, 2005 5:21 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

But what about side-effects?

What if his HGH use leads to his body breaking down up ahead? Do we want a 2001 version of McGwire?

by OaktownTribesman on Dec 8, 2005 6:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Mark McGwire was 37

in 2001.

Miguel Tejada will be 33 when his contract expires.

McGwire battled health problems his entire career.

Tejada has not missed a game in over five years.

McGwire weighed about 275 pounds by the end of his career.

Tejada might tip the scales at 225.

The situations could not be more different.

Check out some awesome music ...

by devo on Dec 8, 2005 6:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

For the record

Abreu at least looks like he's on five different types of 'roids. His head is... massive... Like, my brother's friend saw him in a bar, and there was an alcoholic stream flowing around his head. He looked like Saturn.

by Alon on Dec 8, 2005 7:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

uh, what?

I'm not sure that even makes sense. Maybe I'm reading it wrong. I do know that I want an alcoholic stream flowing around my head. Sounds fun. Must be a pretty big hangover, though...

Go A's -- Nebraska

by Ryan Armbrust on Dec 8, 2005 7:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

i'm pretty sure...

...that I had an alcoholic stream flowing around my head last night....a bit overhung at the moment; time for more sleep.

bring tejada back, i'd be so happy!

ps- vote for AN for best sports blog

"You can't get any more 'Oakland' than the Coliseum. Get any more 'Oakland' and you're in San Leandro!" -Random Drunk Bum at Game

by rungood on Dec 9, 2005 1:12 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

juice

balco, giambi, the orioles.
let's face it: as nice as he may be, the man has a lot of juice connections for a 5'9" shortstop with a ridiculous amount of power...

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 8, 2005 4:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

Bringing up steroids w.r.t. Bobby Abreau, on the other hand, was totally baseless (on the part of Trojan). The only reason I have for connecting him to steroids is that he won the home run derby.

by rubin sierra on Dec 9, 2005 12:54 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Um

Height isn't necessarily that important for power hitting. In fact, in some ways it's better to be short. Miggy is strong enough to hit it a long way. Willie Mays and Hank Aaron were 6' at the MOST.

by TheBigO on Dec 17, 2005 12:06 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

He will be...

Be a Red Sock (Sawx) by the end of the week.

"You know I don't like beautiful, well put together women, give me a nice nose break or a lazy eye." Johnny Drama

by rook on Dec 8, 2005 4:55 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

as of right now... good riddance

tejada was great, i was a huge fan, but as of now
i'll still take chavez and crosby over tejada and another 3B any day.

tejada is usually very good august, september, and october, yet this year he SUCKED.
how do we know that's not because of all the extra attention focused on the orioles locker room following the palmiero situation?

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 8, 2005 4:56 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Miggy's always been an emotional guy

His poor second half could have easily been tied the Orioles' losing ways. I'm sure the meida storm that Palmiero brought didn't help matters, but to imply that Tejada was on steroids...

Man, Fuck the 80's!

I don't hate, I just respond aggressively to stupidity

by grover on Dec 8, 2005 4:59 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

or it could have been due to ...

... FOX's jerking around of ARRESTED DEVELOPMENT. I know that caused me to have some performance issues at work ...

@('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 8, 2005 5:05 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I'll second that...

damn fox.

Go A's -- Nebraska

by Ryan Armbrust on Dec 8, 2005 6:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Word up

I totally missed that Rita was "disabled" until the last episode.

Copernicus felt the same way about the geocentric crew.

by salb918 on Dec 8, 2005 7:58 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

MR F

Go A's -- Nebraska

by Ryan Armbrust on Dec 8, 2005 10:38 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Thirded.

But look for it to reappear on another network, according to the producers.

by Ozzz on Dec 9, 2005 2:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

please, let's face reality grover...

1: look at the guy. he's ridiculously ripped. was he always like that? no, he was skinny. no, you're right, lots of people develop bodies like that as they "mature." why, look at canseco, mcgwire, sosa, giambi, bonds....
how tall is tejada? 5'9". how many guys his size have that much power?

2: palmeiro essentially implicated him. B-12 is a clubhouse code name for steroids that canseco mentions in his book, which was written prior to the palmeiro-tejada thing.

this isn't a criminal trial, we don't need "proof beyond a reasonable doubt" because he's not being sent to prison if found guilty.

people can come up with all the excuses they want (emotional guy), but what is the probability that it's roids and what is the probability that it's something else?

i'm not saying the probability is that high, but is it high enough to avoid an aging (and age unknown) 5'9" shortstop whose performance rapidly declined last year and who has a HUGE contract?
absolutely, 100% without a doubt.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 8, 2005 5:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

For a guy...

who gave SO MUCH to this organization, I think it is kind of screwed up to without a doubt assume he is a juicer.

YABU: You're always eating cheese. ...Is cheese good for you? . FISCHER: IT'S BETTER THAN SUSHI!!!

by ConditionOakland on Dec 8, 2005 5:13 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't enjoy implicating miggy

it pained me to no end when he left the team. he was the heart and soul of our club for a few years, and he meant so much to this team, not just as a player but as a figurehead of the organization. I don't like implicating him, but I feel that IF there is a chance he will test positive, that his large, long contract is not worth the risk, ESPECIALLY since we already have an infield tandem that is excellent.

by noava22 on Dec 8, 2005 5:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

improve your grasp of the english language

i didn't say he was "without a doubt" a juicer, i'm saying we avoid tejada because there is a change he is a juicer:

i'm not saying the probability is that high, but is it high enough to avoid an aging (and age unknown) 5'9" shortstop whose performance rapidly declined last year and who has a HUGE contract?
absolutely, 100% without a doubt.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 8, 2005 5:49 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

a CHANGE he was a juicer?

With a title like "improve your grasp of the english language," one would have expected you to proofread your post like a million times...

But I know what you meant and hear what you're saying. I sure hope that Tejada wasn't a juicer though, and think in this unsure time of "who is" and "who isn't" a steroider, he's as big a risk as anyone we might be interested in.

I say bring back the Rally Miggy! Does anyone else remember that?

"You can't get any more 'Oakland' than the Coliseum. Get any more 'Oakland' and you're in San Leandro!" -Random Drunk Bum at Game

by rungood on Dec 9, 2005 1:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

The Rally Miggy

was totally cool.

The best (only?) reason to bring back Miggy as far as I'm concerned.

by iglew on Dec 9, 2005 1:37 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

i remember game I was at

where the a's were down by a run to someone when they put it on the diamondvision and then they came back. i was so ecstatic, i was like "TAKE THAT RALLY MONKEY!"

rally miggy = awesome
rally monkey = cowboy up = crap

"You can't get any more 'Oakland' than the Coliseum. Get any more 'Oakland' and you're in San Leandro!" -Random Drunk Bum at Game

by rungood on Dec 9, 2005 4:41 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

refers to a complete misinterpretation

of a statement, not some stupid spelling error.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 9, 2005 3:18 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

yeah man

i know this, it was a total joke!

"You can't get any more 'Oakland' than the Coliseum. Get any more 'Oakland' and you're in San Leandro!" -Random Drunk Bum at Game

by rungood on Dec 9, 2005 4:39 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Reality

They were testing in 2004 and he performed great.

They were testing in the first half of 2005 and he performed great.

They were testing in the 2nd half of 2005 and he struggled as the Orioles went into a tailspin.

He also struggled in the first half of 2003 when the A's told him they wouldn't be keeping him beyond the season.

He's had to get a visa every year to come to America. He's passed countless security checks to get those visas. His birth certificate is good enough for Homeland Security but not you?

(Ok... so the age thing is still a legitimate question.)

But if he really is turning 30 next year than you shouldn't have to worry about serious decline before his contract ends in 2009.

I don't hate, I just respond aggressively to stupidity

by grover on Dec 8, 2005 5:17 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

2004

They were testing but they didn't label the samples. It was "anoymous" testing. Miggy could've tested positive for all we know. Basically, if you said half the A's were tested, then there's a 50% chance Miggy tested or not in ST. And it's not like the day after you drop 'roids you start to suck... everybody will be paying close attention to Miggy (among others) in 2006.

by OaktownTribesman on Dec 8, 2005 6:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Point #2

I don't put much stock in the implications of a desperate, has-been cheater.

A Beane in the hand is worth $60M in payroll

by jeepers on Dec 8, 2005 5:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

he's been right so far

mcgwire. pretty much everyone thinks he juiced after that embarrassing congressional testimony.
palmiero.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 8, 2005 5:51 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I was referring to Palmeiro

A Beane in the hand is worth $60M in payroll

by jeepers on Dec 8, 2005 5:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

canseco...palmeiro, SAME THING

canseco being right proves that just because one is a "desperate, has-been cheater" doesn't necessarily mean one is lying.

you're never going to get clean, untainted players fingering each other just for the heck of it. why would they, and be blacklisted like canseco and palmeiro?
all information about steroids in the locker room will come from players who are:
desperate
has beens
or
cheaters

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 9, 2005 12:54 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

My point isn't steroids,

but if you really mean this:

His poor second half could have easily been tied the Orioles' losing ways.

doesn't that pretty much put to rest the "Tejada is such a leader!" rap we've been debating for a couple of years? If he's such a leader, why didn't he lead them to stay in the race, rather than collapsing with the rest of the team? If he's such a leader, why is he whining to the media about how lame the team is?

If Chavez had signed somewhere else and had done this, I suspect that a lot of ANers would start talking about how "heartless" he is again. Do Tejada's statements bother those here who think he's a team leader?

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Dec 8, 2005 5:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

The comments are vintage Miggy

He wears his heart on his sleeve, and is unable to tolerate it when things go wrong. It's impolite of him to say so, but he's totally right that the Orioles have no idea what they're doing.

When I hear him say that, I recall his fury after the A's lost to the Boston Junior Yankees in 2003. I'd be a lot more concerned about his leadership if he didn't care about the ineptitude of Oriole management.

A Beane in the hand is worth $60M in payroll

by jeepers on Dec 8, 2005 5:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

the Orioles have no idea what they're doing

... aaaaaaaaaaaaaand they're the ones who signed Miggy.

What this statement comes down to, for me, is Miggy essentially saying that he's a winner, but the rest of the Orioles roster isn't.

@('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 8, 2005 5:35 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Baltimore had no pitching!

Cabrera and Chen were the only two semi-reliable SP the Orioles had in the second half. Bedard and Lopez were sporting ERAs in the mid-5 range whiloe Maine and Penn were over 6!

It would require a lot of dexterity and versatility to pull that team out. Maybe Bugs Bunny could have pulled it off, but not many others.

I don't hate, I just respond aggressively to stupidity

by grover on Dec 8, 2005 5:26 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

But what happens in the clubhouse?

How do you feel if you're a new O when you hit spring training next year, and the big star, the acknowledged team leader, seems to have implied in the media that your presence in the clubhouse is evidence of management's stupidity and indifference to winning?

My main complaint isn't primarily with Tejada himself, though -- it's more with the whole "leader/not a leader" issue in the first place. I just think that when the O's and Miggy were hot last year, people said the reason was Tejada's grit and leadership, which was contrasted with Chavez's "lack of heart" and the A's' awful record. But when the O's tanked, I don't remember people saying that Tejada was in a leadership slump.

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Dec 8, 2005 6:07 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

That's a good point

The "heart/no heart" argument is about as compelling as the "good manager/bad manager" argument. In both cases, the win loss record of the team is the dominating "indicator", when the win/loss record really doesn't tell you too much about it. Teams don't lose games because they suddenly "lose heart", or the manager "has lost the team", they lose games because of (lack of) talent.

"quotes": the new semi-colon! :-).

A Beane in the hand is worth $60M in payroll

by jeepers on Dec 8, 2005 6:15 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

leader/not a leader

The whole heart/leadership/clutch label with Tejada has never made a whole lot of sense. He's an exciting player, plays with a lot of emotion, and came up big repeatedly in the 2002 regular season, particularly during the 20-game winning streak. But balancing that out, he was absolutely terrible in the playoffs in both 2002 and 2003. If you believe that his leadership somehow elevated the rest of the team when he was hot, you should also believe that his lack of it helped to bring them all down during the playoffs.

2003 was especially painful. If Tejada (and Byrnes) had traded a little of that "heart" for some brains, we would have swept the Sox. That didn't detract from what he had accomplished previously, but for me it made it easy to watch him leave.

"Don't go getting all Alexander Haig on me, either." - Billy Beane

by andeux on Dec 8, 2005 6:24 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Well put

Let's not bring back these re-treads to Oakland. Time to see what this new generation can do for us in the playoffs.

by OaktownTribesman on Dec 8, 2005 6:33 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

In other words,

You think we should trade Scare Crow for Tin Man?

by rubin sierra on Dec 9, 2005 1:03 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Depends

Are we trading them before or after they visit the Wizard?

Buy low, sell high.

by iglew on Dec 9, 2005 1:41 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I'll take either of the Wicked Witches

any day of the week (and, yes, that refers to both the movie and to Jeff Kent and Milton Bradley).

Consistency, strong peripheral stats.

Dorothy was the Marco Scutaro of the movie: "clutch," but ultimately a lucky lightweight.

@('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 9, 2005 8:32 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Whole-heartedly agree

Some people call it "heart". I call it lack of professionalism.

by OaktownTribesman on Dec 8, 2005 6:10 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I call it both.

It's not like comments aren't inspired by his unquestionable desire to win. It's that they were poorly chosen for a public forum.

A Beane in the hand is worth $60M in payroll

by jeepers on Dec 8, 2005 6:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

did he say this before or after they signed Ramon?

that signing might have been partially motivated by wanting to keep Tejada happy

See, I'm a murderer, I kill what I eat. I'm a hunter-gatherer, I kill what I eat. I'm a steelworker, I kill what I eat. I'm a bricklayer, I kill what I eat.

by Cutthemullet on Dec 8, 2005 5:03 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Practically guaranteed

That Ramon's relationship with Miggy played into the signing. Also explains why they went after Byrnes last year.

I don't hate, I just respond aggressively to stupidity

by grover on Dec 8, 2005 5:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

maybe

McMi11ion will play left field for them next year, too.

What every happened to him, anyways?

YABU: You're always eating cheese. ...Is cheese good for you? . FISCHER: IT'S BETTER THAN SUSHI!!!

by ConditionOakland on Dec 8, 2005 5:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

last news i can find

is that he was assigned to the red sox minor league camp out of ST, but it looks like he didn't accept it, and likely retired

Go A's -- Nebraska

by Ryan Armbrust on Dec 8, 2005 6:52 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

LOL

Superstars that made $9 million or more last season with one member of their supporting casts that raked in another $17 million. Oh the humanity. Can't the owners try harder...like Avis?

by LowcountryJoe on Dec 8, 2005 5:12 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

He's just frustrated..understandably....

Every team in that division is improving or doesnt need to improve a lot (NYY) except for Baltimore. They could be looking at 5th in that division for sure.

Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Dec 8, 2005 5:35 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

If the season started today...

they'd pretty much be a lock for last place.

A Beane in the hand is worth $60M in payroll

by jeepers on Dec 8, 2005 5:41 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

This all depends on the timing...

It's a smart move by him if he said this after Edgar was traded today.

Or

This could be the final straw for Ramon getting the contract done (O's had to concede) or Miggy hates the way Ramon blocks the plate and knows they are giving 28MM for an offensive minded catcher, when they are already offensive, and need pitching/defense to win.

"You know I don't like beautiful, well put together women, give me a nice nose break or a lazy eye." Johnny Drama

by rook on Dec 8, 2005 6:04 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

That would be smart indeed ...

Smart like Jay Payton!

by rubin sierra on Dec 9, 2005 1:07 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Have to ask..

What is more classy...openly complaining to your manager during games/in clubhouse..

Or sitting around in the Dominican is shorts, drinking Mai Tai's and complaining to AP about how your team has done nothing to improve the team, despite their best efforts. It's not like the O's haven't been in on every deal this winter, it's just that NO ONE wants to go play there, because their pitching sucks, err is young..., and really besides Miggy/Mora what do they have?

"You know I don't like beautiful, well put together women, give me a nice nose break or a lazy eye." Johnny Drama

by rook on Dec 9, 2005 9:29 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Think about it though....

Just a what if, I am not advocating or implying anything or even speculating or anything. Just a funny thought.....

Ramon and Tejada traded back to Oak at the deadline for Loaiza, Kendall, Kennedy, Scutaro, and Garcia.

Boy, that would make some heads turn. lol Again, nothing more than a funny thought.

MacGowan asked how long Bill had been driving his car. King replied, "I just got it a week ago, no sense in paying more than $250.00 for a car."

by PosterNutbag44 on Dec 8, 2005 6:08 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I'm all for bringing Miggy back

If they'd take Zito/Ellis and maybe a propect and they eat some cash i'd do it. That's a big couple of if's though. Who cares if we have prospects waiting for 2B. Both Pennington and Milillo can be moved to the OF and i think i'd take a proven superstar over two 'spects any day. But this most likely isn't going to happen, but one can dream.

"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin, Seattle Mariners

by Helloooo 1st on Dec 8, 2005 6:11 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I've said this many times

and I'll say it again. I think Crosby's ceiling is higher than Tejada's. I'd rather keep Crosby because to me his best years are ahead of him. Tejada still has good years left in him, but Crosby is much cheaper and we get to keep our gold glover at third base.

I could be wrong about Crosby, but he had a stretch last season where he looked just as good as Tejada at his best. And it was HIS SECOND YEAR. He'll still be a bit inconsistent, but when he puts it all together, Crosby is going to be just remarkable.

by Tyler Bleszinski on Dec 8, 2005 6:44 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I loved Tejada. A lot.

But I'll agree with you there. I think Crosby could very well be better than Tejada. And likely soon. Tejada is going to be on a downward trend over the next few years. They will still be good years, but from a cost stance, Crosby is better. Also, it looks like Crosby will rapidly approach Tejada's output over the next couple years, at a much lower cost. I have to give the durability bonus to Miggy, though...

Go A's -- Nebraska

by Ryan Armbrust on Dec 8, 2005 7:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

my heart would burst with joy

my heart would burst with joy if we were to get tejada back but my mind would not agree. I loved Tejada when he was here and I still like to see him do well. He was my favorite Athletic after the rickey era ended and it would just be magical to see him on the A's again. that said, crosby at this point is a much better value and it just does not makes sense for the good of the team.

It is a nice thought though.....

But we can not run the team based upon what the heart wants aside from aiming for a winning team.

Kendall Haiku by FormerHuntsvilleStar, " Ball in hand, a leap,--- a veteran catcher blocks--- and secures a win"

by Athletics fan and runner on Dec 8, 2005 7:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

agreed 100%

Although, quite frankly, the injuries (and, yes, I know 2 data points doth not a sequence make) are starting to concern me.

@('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 9, 2005 8:35 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I wouldn't deal Croz either

Nor would the A's, I imagine. There are only two basic ways such a deal could happen, I think:

Trade Chavez or Zito for him straight up. The money would work. However, Zito wouldn't want to sign there, and either prospect makes for a potentially disastrous clubhouse situation. It's the more doubtful of the two.
Trade Mark Ellis, Jay Payton, and a good prospect or two for him. This way is more feasible, although it still has a lot of problems. You would need to count on Ethier or Kielty, or some combination, to cover Payton's spot. And, you would have to get either Chavez, Crosby or Tejada to move to second base. Plus, although the money wouldn't be terrible short-term if you add up Payton's $4.5 and Ellis' yet-to-be-determined, but possibly $3M salary, you'd be committed for three more years. The result would be letting Zito walk and not getting another bat for next year (beyond Miggy, of course).

Wouldn't mind seeing how dumb Baltimore would be willing to be about it, but I'd be surprised if a successful version of #2 could be arranged.

A Beane in the hand is worth $60M in payroll

by jeepers on Dec 8, 2005 7:01 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Chavez at 2B

Now there's an interesting idea. Has anyone explored this possibility? It might solve that arm problem where he has to one-hop the ball to 1B.

by iglew on Dec 9, 2005 1:45 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

GLad he is miserable

Let that be lesson to all the players who only think about money.

Screw you Tejada!!!

And before you say the A's never offered him a contract. Billy would have for 4 years 3 million each. Plenty of money to survive.

Why don't they just lick their fingers?

by novaoakland on Dec 8, 2005 7:05 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Someone's bitter.

You're about as bitter as a lemon (maybe even a lime!).

My advice to you--get up early tomorrow, watch the sunrise and embrace nature for all that she is, and then I gurantee that the bitterness will have left you.

Just my advice, though.

"Hope is not the conviction that something will turn out well but the certainty that something makes sense, regardless of how it turns out" - Vaclav Havel

by Czech Micah on Dec 8, 2005 8:19 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Well

If anybody has the right to be bitter, it's a former Expos fan (or should I say, fan of the former Expos?).

Copernicus felt the same way about the geocentric crew.

by salb918 on Dec 8, 2005 8:23 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I would be bitter,

and dare I say filled with hate towards Mr. Loria and MLB, but why hate when I thankfully have been given the power of love?

"Hope is not the conviction that something will turn out well but the certainty that something makes sense, regardless of how it turns out" - Vaclav Havel

by Czech Micah on Dec 8, 2005 8:42 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

would you give up $60 million?

I know I wouldn't. Now imagine giving up $60 million if you had grown up dirt poor, as Miguel did. I would be willing to wager that Miguel has done far better things with the "extra" $60 million in your little hypothetical than made you feel happy about him wearing a green and gold hat. The world isn't as cut and dry as you make it...

by drudown on Dec 8, 2005 8:56 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Hell no I would not give up 60

You are missing the point. He chose to go to BAL. He was a free-agent.

He is a greedy bastard and a dumb one at that if he thought those idiots would ever win.

Why don't they just lick their fingers?

by novaoakland on Dec 8, 2005 10:53 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

So weak...

What a load of crap this is....on so many different levels. Such a lack of respect who gave his heart and soul to the fns for a lot of years. Pathetic.

Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Dec 8, 2005 11:00 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Why is crap please explain.

He chose where to go. A team with ZERO history of winning. Then they don't win and he complains.

Totaly childish. Am I missing something. Why is his situation not his fault?

Why don't they just lick their fingers?

by novaoakland on Dec 8, 2005 11:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

so it's his fault

But do you need to take it the extra step and call him a "greedy bastard"? The guy spends years here, it's all good, leaves understandably, then makes one stupid comment and all the good he's ever done is totally forgotten? I don't know about you, but I make mistakes, and I rely on people to forgive me a few of them.

by rubin sierra on Dec 9, 2005 1:14 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Besides...

The A's refused to negotiate to keep Miggy - he had no choice but to leave, so why begrudge the guy whatever contract the market could bear for him?

by LD on Dec 9, 2005 11:54 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

To paraphrase Enron...

..."Ask why."

by Ozzz on Dec 9, 2005 2:08 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Damn.

It makes me sad to see this. Not cool, O's ownership pretty much is what it is, no surprises. He knew what division he was going to, what team.

I'd love Miggy back (no injuries? Hell yeah!), but not gonna happen.

"Baseball fans are junkies, and their heroin is the statistic." -Robert S. Wieder

by Kyli on Dec 8, 2005 7:06 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Frankly

I'm tired of players signing long deals and then getting upset and asking for a trade two or three years in. If you signed for six years, expect to play for six years. Same thing goes for Manny Ramirez. If you're going to get itchy in the middle of a deal, negotiate every two years. If I was a GM I wouldn't take a guy who whined his way out of a club without a good reason (Payton=good reason, Ramirez=bad). But hey, that's just my opinion!

"People ask me what I do in winter when there's no baseball. I'll tell you what I do. I stare out the window and wait for spring." ~Rogers Hornsby

by AinOz on Dec 8, 2005 7:45 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I imagine he feels lied to...

They likely promised him things in terms of signing players they are not doing. I am sure he has a reason.

Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Dec 8, 2005 11:01 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

No

Unfortunately Miggy's and the O's talent evaluation/performance projection skills are lacking... All was good when the O's were bringing in the likes of Javy Lopez, Orlando Palmeiro, Sydney Ponson, Sammy Sosa...

by OaktownTribesman on Dec 9, 2005 5:36 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

He has 60m tissues to dry his eyes with.

And no grounds for complaint. If he never wins another game, he's got $60m in the bank. Suck itup.

by Ozzz on Dec 9, 2005 2:09 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

crack

um, if the o's DO indeed move miggy, it'll be for a huge package. Zito would be a small piece - ellis and zito? Are you kidding?

by asch on Dec 8, 2005 7:56 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Let's be Real

Even if the Orioles wanted to accede to Miggy's request-- and i seriously doubt that they would--

the last team they would trade him to would be the A's. Face saving is alive and well.

And how could the A's possibly afford his salary? Only if we traded Zito and Ellis, which would help the team offensively but hurt its pitching and defense (Just who would play 2B?) or, even better, Chavez, essentially undoing the decision of 3 years ago to stick with the younger player (and just who would play 3B??)

To quote a former President (or at least his SNL imitator)-- nah gonna happen.

oaktoon

by oaktoon on Dec 8, 2005 7:58 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

He's not going anywhere

It was probably a comment that just blew up. He's the O's superstar so I think they won't trade him. But how about Zito, Kendall, Ellis for Miggy, Ramon and PTBNL.

by What Would Rickey Do on Dec 8, 2005 8:15 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

My thoughts exactly--

Miggy's a "heat of the moment" guy, and we're seeing the confluence of two events: "Miggy being frustrated" and "Miggy being around a reporter". A word to the wise: Check how he feels on Sunday before putting too much thought into the trade possibilities. (Except that it's fun, I know.)

Nico

by Nico on Dec 8, 2005 9:36 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

hey i posted this earlier!!!!!!

:-)

by GrewUpAtTheColiseum on Dec 8, 2005 8:21 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I really hate to be a spoilsport...

But what happens to Croz if Miggy comes back? Does he get traded?

Carpe Diem---Seize the Day

by Squeaky on Dec 8, 2005 8:43 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

white sox had...

the white sox had "don't stop believin'" last year. this year let's make our theme song "open arms" and welcome miggy back. there is literally NO player on the a's i wouldn't be willing to give up for miguel. how about zito and chavez for miguel and bedard?

by David Owen on Dec 8, 2005 9:46 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

From the O's POV,

wouldn't that leave them with Mora playing SS in 2006 and no one pitching in 2007?

Nico

by Nico on Dec 8, 2005 9:54 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

I do not concur with the choice...

...of Journey song. Since the "lights have already gone down in the city by the bay" and Miggy has had his fling with his other lover, I think that Lovin', touchin', Squeezin' is far more appropriate.

Nah, nah, na-na, nah...

by LowcountryJoe on Dec 9, 2005 7:19 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Damn you.

Can't get it out of my head...

"You know I don't like beautiful, well put together women, give me a nice nose break or a lazy eye." Johnny Drama

by rook on Dec 9, 2005 9:26 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

The suggestion earlier in the thread

to trade Ellis packaged w/ others for Miggy? There's no way. This may be heretical but I wouldn't even trade Ellis for Miggy straight across. Miggy has now had enough "A list" years to no longer be considered as having caught lightning in a bottle for one good year--yes, he's an elite player. But his temperament and his inconsistency in the field have always bothered me. He'll make the occasional spectacular play and then throw a routine grounder into the stands with one out in the bottom of the ninth. Ellis is so steady, so dependable, such a phenomenal grinder. He's the kind of player who doesn't need outside prodding or motivation to drive himself to improve and excel. I don't think we've even begun to see the heights he can reach and, in the long run, I think he's going to be an elite player longer than Tejada.

by camperdog on Dec 8, 2005 10:12 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

new infield?

2b ellis
ss miggy
3b croz
1b chavy

just funnin'

"...It might have been a great year with a real DH."

by A s Eh on Dec 8, 2005 10:18 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

umm,

how about
2b ellis
ss croz
3b miggy
1b chavez

or 3b chavez, 1b miggy

first situation if chavez's shoulder sucks

second if it does not

"If people don't know who he is, they'd better turn on the television and check him out."

by jacobo2u on Dec 8, 2005 11:14 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

1B would "spare" Chavez's shoulder with

very little throwing required.

Probably help his power hitting in the process.

Worth trying if his bat gets consistent.

"...It might have been a great year with a real DH."

by A s Eh on Dec 8, 2005 11:30 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

BRING BACK MIGGY!

by kvn on Dec 8, 2005 10:42 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

yeah right.

This A's team is going to be great, I love Miggy as much as the next guy, but we are set in the infield, with a nice young core that can only improve. Miggy is 30, the only one close to that in the infield is Chavy. This team next year is capable of winning a world series. And why would Baltimore trade a perennial MVP candidate for anything less. If Miggy is traded look for him to go to Boston for Manny.

by CyberFT on Dec 8, 2005 10:50 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Much as I love Miggy, if the O's do trade

him -- which I highly doubt -- it would likely be to a higher payroll team than the A's.

by OaklandSi on Dec 9, 2005 1:19 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

One can always dream

On a couple of occasions, I had dreams that Tejada returned to Oakland. The same way that one'll dream about that lover that jilted you coming back. Its that emotional.

These rumors will do nothing to help me sleep at night. Oh Tejada, I know it'll never happen but Oakland loves you more than that skank Baltimore ever will!

by limecat on Dec 9, 2005 7:00 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Aaaaaaaand...

... reading these posts remind me why I'm glad Billy Beane is running the team, and we're not.

I loved Miggy. Was sad to see him go. Hold no ill will toward him (unlike Giambi). But really, wipe your tears with hundred dollar bills and shut the hell up, Miguel. I'm sorry you're not playing for a winner, but in the larger scheme of things, the complaints of a ridiculously rich and pampered athlete become less important every day.

Sorry, we all get frustrated at work - but how many of us can console ourselves with the fact that we're millionaires, what, 70 times over?

Okay, maybe Blez and Nico. But for the rest of us... these athletes need to show the same character off the field that they claim to show on it. Suck it up.

"In the Mexican League his nickname was 'El Coyote', which means 'The Coyote'." - Tommy Lasorda, color-man extraordinaire

by seedspeed on Dec 9, 2005 8:26 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Thank you!

Do you think Billy Beane would ever do something like this? And I do love Miggy...but he would've had his ring/s? if he had stayed in Oakland.

"sometimes I can't tell the difference between baseball and magic..." SALB918 - for all of us!

by LongTimeFan on Dec 9, 2005 9:31 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

My guess ...

... Miggy ends up traded to the Yanks for Cano and Wang, and moves to 2B.

And Cashman signs Nomah to play CF.

So, yes, the Yanks end up with all four of the premier early-aughts shortstops (and the worst of them all the one manning the position).

@('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 9, 2005 11:56 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Miggy + $$ for Crosby &Zito

Just throwing this out, what the hell, having fun.
Orioles give us Tejada plus $3 million a year
for two years for Crosby and Zito.
Our lineup looks like this:

Ellis
Kotsay
Tejada
Chavez
Frank Thomas
DJ
Payton
Swisher
Kendall

It's a righty/lefty balanced lineup with
good power and decent team speed. (Except for DJ/Thomas)We lose Zito for this year but
can't probably keep him anyway long term.
Tough to let Crosby go but he's no Tejada.
Tejada should be very productive the
next 4 yrs., plus he brings leadership.

by Reggie on Dec 9, 2005 1:06 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Ok, that's just mean!

What? You want to see me throw up? You want to hurt my feelings? What are you trying to do to me??

Frankly, I think Miggy is just being a baby. I mean, I loved the guy when we has here, but he is not anymore. He went to Baltimore, he is getting tons of money, and now he is complaining. I guess the grass is not greener on the other side!

But then there is this other voice in my head that is saying that all this got blown WAY out of control. He probably said one little comment to one little reported and the media is making it sound like he set up a press conference to declair his desire to be traded. And of course, being A's fans, everyone here jumped all over it.

This will be forgotten by this time next week.

P.S. Crosby no Tejada, you're right. Crosby will be better than Tejada, you just wait and see.

"If I'm not having fun, then I am not playing well" ~Bobby Crosby

by BobbyCrosbysGirl on Dec 9, 2005 1:37 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Bring the Miggy Magic Back

Well, since I've always said we should have signed Tejada rather than Eric, I think if we can get him, it should be a no brainer....

I mean, isn't he THE proven right handed power hitter who can lead a team down the stretch run we're looking for?

And with Eric's arm/shoulder thing and Bobby's injuries...a Johnson/Ellis/Tejada/Crosby or Chavez (DH) infield sounds really, really good to me

*Though I do think Thomas is going to have the monster year we all thought Dye would have*

Okay, I think I covered all my bases =)

by oaklandfan40 on Dec 9, 2005 2:51 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Wait

Chavvy at DH sounds like the best idea I've ever heard!

Screw the gold gloves, this guy shouldn't field. Right?

Right???

Well, actually, I think this might be logic, but it seems to me that you just don't bench your best fielder... THE best fielder in MLB at his respective position, one who is on track to break a fielding award

by Alon on Dec 10, 2005 9:01 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Crosby vs Tejada argument

First off, there is no way he's coming back even though I'd love it. Secondly, many people on this site continue to say that Crosby has a higher ceiling than Tejada and it really gets to me. How can you be so optimistic? Tejada is an MVP, Home Run Derby Champ, 150 RBI guy. The Tejada haters will point to last season and say he fell off heavily after the all-star break, he's too old, "he's on steroids, I can tell".

What led to this incredible optimism for Bobby Crosby? His first year was pretty good for a SS, but wasn't a barn burner offensive year by any means. His second year was better although it was hampered by injuries, so it's tough to tell what he would've projected to. I think Crosby is a good player and MIGHT one day become an all-star, although I have my reservations, but Tejada is a proven super star. On thing that really worries me about Crosby is his durability. The injuries are starting to mount up and his stats sink to an extremely low level post all-star break. In 2004 his post break numbers were: .208 BA, .311OBP, .396 Slg. In 2005: .239 BA, .321 OBP, .388 Slg. The only month of his career that he's actually put up flashes of being a super star is in June, .337 BA (eerily enough) in both June of 2004 and June of 2005. Tejada is the epitome of durability, often coming on stronger during the second half of the year (despite last year in which he dropped off to .276 after the break). Remember when he carried us during that 20 game win streak. How quickly we forget.

I hope Crosby keeps improving, but there are some causes for worry.

by RunRickeyRun on Dec 9, 2005 3:50 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Comparison ...

OPS+ By Age

Age Mig Cros
_23 _91 91
_24 112 109
_25 112
_26 122

Pretty darned even ... and really Cros should be given a small edge, since Miggie posted those numbers with an extra year in the majors.

The reason Cros has a higher upside is that he's already a better defender than Miggie is and is a much better defender than Miggie was at this age.

Also, Tejada, while a great player, is fairly overrated in the "proven star" department. He won a hr derby? So the F#$k what? While his 2002 was a great year, A-Rod was the most deserving MVP. 150 RBIs? Yep and then he followed it up with 98 last year.

Miggie was my favorite player when he was on the team. I love his firey, passionate personality. But if I had the choice of Miggie at half his contracted salary or Crosby at his full contracted salary. No question, Crosby's my man.

Check out some awesome music ...

by devo on Dec 9, 2005 4:06 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Thank you!

Said everything I was going to say and more!

"If I'm not having fun, then I am not playing well" ~Bobby Crosby

by BobbyCrosbysGirl on Dec 9, 2005 4:18 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Actually,

Crosby is one year older than you have him down for. He turns 26 in January. And I'll take Tejada's 98 rbi's over Crosby's 38. I know Crosby didn't play a full season, but that's just another reason Tejada is so valuable. I think it's hard to call Tejada overrated when some of his his own teammates call him the best player in baseball. I personally don't agree with them, but if I heard anyone even mutter the best player in baseball in the same sentence as Crosby I'd call a shrink.

As far as the HR derby, I know it means nothing. Abreu hit as many homer sin two hours last year as he did the whole season. It does bring fan appeal and it hepls pack the seats.

by RunRickeyRun on Dec 9, 2005 4:22 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

You're right about the age ...

not sure what happened there. Switch the small adv Cros to small adv Miggie.

Defense is still the big difference.

Personally, I agree with BB that winning, not players (with HR record chases and being Japanese being notable exceptions), puts butts in the seats. No question Miggie is acknowledged as a huge star - but his stats don't even come close to matching it.

Any teammate who doesn't tell the press that one of his teammates is about ten times better than he really is is not much of a teammate.

Check out some awesome music ...

by devo on Dec 9, 2005 4:31 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

tejada

is a emotional leader, which is often infered as "leader". things are going not the way he wanted/have been told it would have gone. even mora agrees with him about the ownership. this is how he is.

so much on my mind, i just can't recline -respiration

by ucla kid on Dec 9, 2005 8:10 PM PST reply actions 0 recs