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6 man rotation?

Just a thought that occured to me: Why not go for a 6 man rotation?

I was just listening to Urban speaking about concerns about workloads. Why not just go to a six man rotation? We already carry a ton of guys in the pullpen, we have a versitile bench... so why not?

It would save our pitchers for a stronger September and October.

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For one thing
You'd have to completely revise the conditioning program to keep guys sharp between starts. That's a big time experiment to do with a major league rotation.
I don't hate, I just respond aggressively to stupidity

by grover on Dec 6, 2005 10:00 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

No way...
You have guys like Zito and Harden...You want them to make 35 starts....not pitch once a week
Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Dec 6, 2005 10:13 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Hey, that was my idea!
No need to skip #5 ... (none / 0)
teams skip their #5 because they don't want him out there. If you have a good #5, he'll make his start ever turn around the rotation and your team will be better off for it. Your aces may lose a planned start or two - but there's a decent chance in actuality they'll get them back by staying healthy and, regardless, they'll be able to throw a couple more innings in the starts that they do make.

Heck, lets go to a 6 man rotation. Saarloos as #6 - we'll skip him whenever off days dictate to keep everyone else on the proper schedule. With everyone except Harden being a good but not great 3.50-4.00 range pitcher and Saarloos not being far behind we wouldn't lose anything with replacing a Zito or Loaiza start with an extra Blanton start and the couple of starts Harden would lose would probably be worth it to help keep him healthy ...

If we don't trade someone that seems like a heck of an idea to me.

http://www.athleticsnation.com/comments/2005/12/2/111944/548/25#25

by devo on Dec 6, 2005 10:13 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Thought someone had mentioned it before
Didn't realize it was you or I would have defended your honor.
I don't hate, I just respond aggressively to stupidity

by grover on Dec 6, 2005 10:16 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I wanted that last year and wrote a Diary:
about it.

Way back in like April.

Ninety percent I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste." -Tug McGraw

by saint on Dec 6, 2005 10:44 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, stupid minds think alike:::
Wassup Devo???

Are you as excited as I am about our team right now???

Ninety percent I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste." -Tug McGraw

by saint on Dec 6, 2005 1:47 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Hey, come on, it's a great idea ...
revolutionary!

I'm always excited about our team. I love the Loaiza move. He's not a great pitcher but he should be very good in front of our D. Heis numbers'll be just as good as Zito this year and better if/when Zito gets traded to a team with a lesser D.

We'll be able to get much more offensive help in trade for Zito than we would have for $7m/yr on the FA market. I'm stoked ... though I have no idea why in the heck we'd want David Wells ...

by devo on Dec 6, 2005 1:56 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Wells will be our 5th guy:
If BZ is dealt. I mean, I love BZ and hate him for personal reasons, how many times did you see Kotsay bail his arse out from a BIG inning?

We want All-Stars at all positions. AN-d I mean ALL positions. BZ gives us a chance to land a Burrell or Abreu...Screw the Minor League talent out there, we have our own...

Ninety percent I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste." -Tug McGraw

by saint on Dec 6, 2005 2:12 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I doubt he'll be much better than Saar
and he'll be tougher to move out of the way if/when Meyer, Cruz, someone else is ready to step into the rotation. If we're not going with the 6 man, it doesn't make sense to waste 4-5m on Boomer ...

I'd prefer to move Zito four a younger, cheaper nearly star caliber player - but, either way, we'd probably get a better player for cheaper than going with a FA.

by devo on Dec 6, 2005 2:18 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

For one year, I am all in...
Add Abreu/Burell, lose Zito...Woo-Hoo!!!!

Otherwise..No deal.

Ninety percent I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste." -Tug McGraw

by saint on Dec 6, 2005 2:29 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Not a 6 man
but a platoon at 5.  Imagine the flexibility to choose between R/L, flyouts/groundouts on any given day. Keeps the pressure up on all the starters to focus and perform. The schedule can be done in advance to help pitchers prepare.
ProActiv: It moisturizes my situation, perserves my sexy. -P. Diddy

by Dig the Long Ball on Dec 6, 2005 10:30 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

eh ...
you wouldn't really have that much flexibility, since you would need to keep them on a regular schedule. It would only make sense if you had a lefty or flyball pitcher of comparable talents to Saar and they platoon at the #5 spot.

by devo on Dec 6, 2005 10:45 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

wells?
probably a complete opposite of Los.
ProActiv Solution: It moisturizes my situation, perserves my sexy. ? -P. Diddy

by Dig the Long Ball on Dec 6, 2005 1:19 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

wrong diection...go to a 4 man
rotation. MLB pitchers are babied today. Go with loaiza, harden, haren, blanton and with two long men-duke and kennedy.

by bigelephant on Dec 6, 2005 10:41 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Um, terrible idea
If you have a five man rotation with a quality #5 starter, pitchers are usually going on more than four days' rest anyway. Also, having six starters means one less guy in the bullpen, which means the starters are pitching longer per outing.  110 pitches once a week does more stress to an arm than 90 pitches once every five days.  If anything, go to a four-man rotation and have a strict 80 or 90 pitch limit for all starters.

by Nick86 on Dec 6, 2005 10:54 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

The idea
is to have a part time #6 who keeps the other five on their regular once every six day turn. When he's not needed he can double as the long man.

The last guy in the bullpen doesn't pitch much anyway. 50 innings divided among 6 starters is 8 innings each. 8 innings times 15 pitches is 120 total. 120 divided by 30 starts is 4 pitches/start.

by devo on Dec 6, 2005 10:59 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

It is mostly personal condition & beliefs...
Obviously the rubber arm of the A's rotation is Zito and the most brittle is Harden.

Why force either into a an uncomfortable regimentation?

Is it better to spot start for starters as comfort zones and health issues arrise?

by Billy Ball 2005 on Dec 6, 2005 11:14 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Why would it be uncomfortable?
They get five days between starts all the time anyway.

No, it's better to be proactive and try to avoid health issues from arrising in the first place.

by devo on Dec 6, 2005 11:46 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Because they are not clones
they are different physically and mentally.

Respect that and you have healthy, comfortable pitchers.

Harden could never do what Zito does and vice versa

Respect that because they both give you value.

by Billy Ball 2005 on Dec 6, 2005 2:45 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

ok ...
what does that have to do with anything?
I asked why an extra day of rest would make either of them uncomfortable ...

by devo on Dec 6, 2005 3:02 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

We seem to basicly agree
I'll say more below Mr I's post

by Billy Ball 2005 on Dec 6, 2005 4:21 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Have 2 guys warm up like they're starting
that way the opposing manager commits to one lineup and the A's send out the more favorable matchup!  It worked against us with the Orioles
"To me, boxing is like a ballet, except there's no music, no choreography, and the dancers hit each other." - Jack Handey

by JJ on Dec 6, 2005 12:59 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

It wouldn't necessarily thin out the bullpen
You could easily have one of the fungible starters come in as a reliaver.

I'm also very skeptical of this myth of a regular rotation. I can't remember a season in which we've had one. Between injuries, days off, skipping the 5th spot, etc., a pitcher never has a reliable day to pitch. As long as the pitcher has enough rest and knows a day in advance, I simply don't buy into the theory at all.

Some of the responses have acted like this is a completely crazy idea. I don't think there's anything wrong with keeping pitchers rested until later in the year. In all likelyhood, at least one member of the rotation will be injured or ineffective and knock us right back down to 5 people again in any case. Given how ridiculously deep out pitching is, I don't see any disagvantage.

Zito is a very durable pitcher, which is a ery fine quality. However, it is much better to get 3 fewer starts out of Zito and have a well rested Harden stay injury free. It is also not that big a difference when you compare 3 starts from Zito to 3 starts from Loiaza (who figures to be our worst starter). I see the A's coming out ahead in the regular season, not to mention the advantage they will hold in the post season with a well rested rotation.

by MrIncognito on Dec 6, 2005 3:12 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Mr I; you have a lot of good points here.
  • one of the fungible starters come in as a reliaver. (Saarloos)
  • can't remember a season in which we've had one (A set rotation go through the year; I'm sure one doesn't exist)
  • I don't think there's anything wrong with keeping pitchers rested until later in the year. (I agree)
  • at least one member of the rotation will be injured or ineffective. (I agree)
  • 3 fewer starts out of Zito and have a well rested Harden stay injury free. (I disagree. Once in a while you simply skip Harden's turn because he can't handle the same innings and starts Zito or Loaiza can. And now Loaiza joins Zito as the same type of pitcher).
  • From observations only - I say that a pitcher using his body the way Harden does needs more rest. Haren, Zito & Loaiza can maintain similar schedules. Blanton will show us this year what schedule is best for him. Last year was his first out of the minors and a much easier workload. this year will show us what type he is.
Yes pitchers need rest and skipping a day or turn are two ways to get it.

I agree that pitchers be kept healthy and sharp with post season performance given priority.

4-day, 5-day, 6-day, you do what works for that particular pitcher and utilize the off days and spot starters to balance things out.

by Billy Ball 2005 on Dec 6, 2005 4:39 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

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