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Under the Radar

Antonio Perez could be an underrated component to the whole Bradley deal.  Why?  He hasn't played a full 162-game season in the big leagues yet, but his career OBP is over .350.  Mark Ellis has a career OBP of .348.  Granted, Ellis has a higher career OPS and Perez has a much smaller sample size, but Perez could become the new supersub, replacing Marco Scutaro's role.

Perez is great insurance for a cranky Chavez shoulder and he's also great insurance in case Ellis or even Crosby goes down.

Is there any question why Billy Beane has been pursuing him for some time now, if the published reports are correct?

Granted, Perez isn't going to start hitting bombs out of the ballpark, but at the same time, he's a guy who can get on base consistently.  I imagine Paul DePodesta probably had a few words about Perez for Billy since the A's were considering acquiring him.

While I believe that Bradley can be a question mark in terms of his attitude and what he's going to provide, I don't think that same uncertainty surrounds Perez.  He will be an excellent insurance policy and if the A's have problems with injuries as they have the last couple of years, they're going to need him.

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what's going on with Ginter
is he on contract? or just a spring training invitee?
"Baseball is like church, many attend, few understand" - Leo Durocher

by gWiLiKeRzZz on Dec 15, 2005 12:20 PM PST reply actions  

I think Beane is trying to trade him
to the Giants for the territorial rights to Sunnyvale.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Dec 15, 2005 12:22 PM PST up reply actions  

i thought it was to the mets along with JL square
with minaya giving up central park and a momument to be named later
"Baseball is like church, many attend, few understand" - Leo Durocher

by gWiLiKeRzZz on Dec 15, 2005 12:24 PM PST up reply actions  

worst trade ever.
we might as well give him away.
sunnyvale is weaksauce.
YABU: You're always eating cheese. ...Is cheese good for you? . FISCHER: IT'S BETTER THAN SUSHI!!!

by ConditionOakland on Dec 15, 2005 12:31 PM PST up reply actions  

under contract
for $1,425,000 in 2006*.  Kind of expensive for a AAA player...

*http://www.ucscfootball.com/salaries.html

"You can't get any more 'Oakland' than the Coliseum. Get any more 'Oakland' and you're in San Leandro!" -Random Drunk Bum at Game

by rungood on Dec 15, 2005 12:23 PM PST up reply actions  

I believe he's more commonly known...
...by the alias, "A.Bust".

What I like about Perez - not only does he get on base, but he's good for 25 steals a year.

by Ozzz on Dec 15, 2005 6:49 PM PST up reply actions  

Not on the A's
He's not even a lock for 5 steals with the A's.
Copernicus felt the same way about the geocentric crew.

by salb918 on Dec 15, 2005 6:55 PM PST up reply actions  

or is ginter
going to be last years kietly?   dramatically improved and able to contribute?
"If people don't know who he is, they'd better turn on the television and check him out."

by jacobo2u on Dec 16, 2005 1:16 AM PST up reply actions  

I've never seen Perez play
(or do anything else, for that matter), but he sounds exactly like Mark McLemore, except younger and (I presume) healthier.  Okay, he's not a switch hitter, either, but he still had a .348 OBP against righties last year.  So, as useful as a 40-year-old McLemore was for the team 2 years ago, I'm happy to have a guy who could be a 25-year-old version of him on the roster for 2006.
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Dec 15, 2005 12:20 PM PST reply actions  

i've
watched him.. he's better than scoot.
so much on my mind, i just can't recline -respiration

by ucla kid on Dec 15, 2005 12:24 PM PST up reply actions  

agreed.
I just wonder what's gonna happen with our plethora of middle infielders.  Crosby, Ellis, Perez, Scoot and Ginter?  Even if Chavy's shoulder isn't 100% and he needs some rest and Crosby and Ellis need the occasional day off, it still seems as if we have 1 too many SS/2B.  Or does Billy really want this much depth??

I feel like we gotta move someone, but who? And to where?

"You can't get any more 'Oakland' than the Coliseum. Get any more 'Oakland' and you're in San Leandro!" -Random Drunk Bum at Game

by rungood on Dec 15, 2005 12:21 PM PST reply actions  

My guess is that
Scutaro is non-tendered or traded.
Copernicus felt the same way about the geocentric crew.

by salb918 on Dec 15, 2005 12:23 PM PST up reply actions  

I always thought that ...
... "non-tendered" should just be "toughed" ...
@('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 15, 2005 12:35 PM PST up reply actions  

Boston...
...gave up their 2 best shorts.

If Beane can pull Ethier for Perez and Bradley, perhaps he can also pull a Scoot, Payton and Barton for Manny and cash...

I'm sure ESPN and FOX will still run headlines like "Bosox dump Manny" like they did with Bradley. We all know that the real headline is "Somehow, all GMs are irrational and highly suceptible to Beane's Jedi Mind trick."

by broaklyn on Dec 15, 2005 8:01 PM PST up reply actions  

I had the same thought
I know Ginter is in AAA, but what about Scutaro? I mean, we had two back up middle infielders on the bench last year, but look how that went! Scut played all the time and Ginter never got on the field. I am afraid this may happen to Scut this season.

I mostly hope they don't trade Scutaro. As my Dad said "He has bailed their ass out more than once," I just hope he doesn't end up with the short end of the stick in all this. Two back up middle infielders who can also slide into third or OF on a rare occasion is not a bad situation to have.

Lets just hope they are all A's in April.

"Happy Holiday's Billy Beane!" - Mychael Urban

by BobbyCrosbysGirl on Dec 15, 2005 12:33 PM PST up reply actions  

or...
...if they're not all on the A's in April, we come up with a creative package to send one of them to a team where he gets to play.

Like...I know!  The Cardinals need a 2B after not signing Grudzielanek, so how about we trade them Ginter for Pujols!

Ok fine, we'll throw in Cruz and Bazooka Joe for good measure...

"You can't get any more 'Oakland' than the Coliseum. Get any more 'Oakland' and you're in San Leandro!" -Random Drunk Bum at Game

by rungood on Dec 15, 2005 12:42 PM PST up reply actions  

Get rid of Ginter!!!
Scutaro has been way to valuable to the A's to get rid of him. I say either trade Ginter or suck it up and eat his salary for a year in AAA. Besides, we are spending more money than ever this year so what will another 1.4 Mil hurt when you're making a WS run. Here is the 25 man roster as it stands now. If you leave Ginter out, then there is still room for another pitcher:

14 Position Players:
C   J. Kendall
1B  N. Swisher
2B  M. Ellis
3B  E. Chavez
SS  B. Crosby
LF  J. Payton
CF  M. Kotsay
RF  M. Bradley
DH  D. Johnson
C   A. Melhuse
IF  M. Scutaro
IF  A. Perez
OF  B. Kielty

12 Pitchers:
SP  B. Zito
SP  R. Harden
SP  E. Loaiza
SP  D. Haren
SP  J. Blanton
RP  H. Street
RP  K. Calero
RP  J. Duchscherer
RP  J. Witasick
RP  J. Kennedy
RP  K. Sarloos
RP  ???

I think this is a freakin awesom roster. Awesome defense, Awesome pitching, Awesome depth, and potentially above average hitting at every position in the lineup. I'd take Scutaro over Perez or Ginter every time!!! Also, the season is long and I think with both of these Infielders flexibility to play different IF positions they will both have the opportunity to get a decent amount of playing time.

by jjunge on Dec 15, 2005 10:35 PM PST up reply actions  

I forgot how to count...
There are actually only 13 position players in that list.

by jjunge on Dec 15, 2005 10:41 PM PST up reply actions  

Right on point...
If somebody goes down in the infield, Perez can fill in capably for even an extended period of time(good contact/on base skills).  I really like him as the primary backup infielder, he's certainly lightyears ahead of Ginter.  

Having said that, Scutaro is actually a fairly comparable player, except one with better defense + power.  In 04 he hit for average, in 05 he took some walks.  He may well consolidate soon.  I've always liked him and think he's on the verge of a breakout of sorts in 06, that is if he gets the chance.    

by Little Rickey on Dec 15, 2005 12:24 PM PST reply actions  

So yeah.
I dont usually post, cause im just a senior in highschool, and I probably don't have the knowledge about all the moneyball stuff as most of you do (im getting the book for christmas though) but something really funny happened yesterday and I forgot to post it.  I told my girlfriend that we acquired milton bradley and shes like... what are you gonna do with the guy who created Monopoly???  It made me laugh.  Also, I really like Antonio Perez, I have heard alot of good things about him, and I think he will be an important part to our team ^_^
Tallahassee Florida - Lincoln Trojans - The OTHER Green and Gold.

by FinalDawn34 on Dec 15, 2005 12:25 PM PST reply actions  

Well then...
Welcome to AN! Don't be afraid to speak your mind and learn from everyone else!

I haven't read moneyball either, but I've learned more about the big leagues in my time here than in any of my previous 19 years alive. Granted, some of those were probably spent sucking my thumb rather than being interested in baseball, but you get the idea.

by RenoTy on Dec 15, 2005 12:31 PM PST up reply actions  

Well
Thanks for the reply ^_^.  Im going into my senior season in highschool, I cant wait, just a month left, I realllly like this A's team this year, We are quietly becoming a dominant team.  In my oppinion sometimes you gotta have a guy who plays passionately with his emotions on his sleeves.  Everyone can rally around that type of attitude sometimes, he just needs to keep his head on straight off the field too.  He sounds like a good teamate though honestly, hes just had some run ins with kent, nothing to judge him too harshly about.  I can't wait to see how he fits in, cause I know the A's are gonna welcome him in.  
Tallahassee Florida - Lincoln Trojans - The OTHER Green and Gold.

by FinalDawn34 on Dec 15, 2005 12:38 PM PST up reply actions  

as far as the run in with kent goes...
isn't kent a racist.  i guess MB could have kept it to himself, but the guy is a racist hick motorcycle cop.  the moustache says it all.
"Oakland is home, and you always want to go home. Anytime you get the chance, you're happy to go home." - #24 Rickey Henderson

by burnone on Dec 15, 2005 1:33 PM PST up reply actions  

Thats hillarious.
hahahaha a racist motorcycle cop :P
Tallahassee Florida - Lincoln Trojans - The OTHER Green and Gold.

by FinalDawn34 on Dec 15, 2005 1:40 PM PST up reply actions  

Hey
I'm a soph in HS, no worries

by Alon on Dec 15, 2005 1:34 PM PST up reply actions  

Are you kidding me?
Alon, you ain't serious. Are you?

by broaklyn on Dec 15, 2005 8:07 PM PST up reply actions  

None
You just always sounded older.

(But that time you stuck up for me when the elephant was trying to stomp me is a different sort of event in my mind now that I know how young you are)

by broaklyn on Dec 16, 2005 7:07 AM PST up reply actions  

Haha
hopefully positive. I meant what I said... Big bats are always great, but it isn't the cure-all for anythin... I don't really support small ball, but that's the way the conventional wisdom goes. What I meant by saying that was that the one-run games are mostly luck, so it is hard to find a cure for them. Bradley I think will help with that, but for the most part, however tough a pill they are to swallow, these one run losses are just that -- the type of thing that you can't predict but have to deal with

by Alon on Dec 16, 2005 12:17 PM PST up reply actions  

So, what does your girlfriend think...
...about Cleveland having a box of cereal in their outfield?  ;)

(welcome!)

"Don't go getting all Alexander Haig on me," Beane told Forst.

by Poppy on Dec 15, 2005 12:43 PM PST up reply actions  

I'll have to tell her about Coco Crisp
Later on today haha.  Anyways, another thing, for you guys who live in Oakland or even in California you better be thanksfull.  Why? Because you guys have the highest population of Asian girls in the US.  And that is awesome.  I love Asian chicks.  My girls asian :)
Tallahassee Florida - Lincoln Trojans - The OTHER Green and Gold.

by FinalDawn34 on Dec 15, 2005 1:42 PM PST up reply actions  

Defense?
I think Perez is a pretty good player and is great insurance for our infield, but I do have a concern.  That's his defense, which is generally considered poor.  I hope we keep Scutaro as a late inning defensive sub, because I wouldn't want Perez out there with a 1-run lead in the bottom of the 9th.  

If we don't get Thomas, I wouldn't be surprised if he gets some at bats at DH.  

Signatures? We don't need no stinking signatures.

by jubjub on Dec 15, 2005 12:40 PM PST reply actions  

defense poor?
Not what I remember... Not doubting you but do you remember where you read that?
Why don't they just lick their fingers?

by novaoakland on Dec 15, 2005 1:21 PM PST up reply actions  

I saw this from 2002
http://www.baseballamerica.com/online/leagues/mlb/devilrays/03top10p2.html

He's a plus fielder with soft hands, a strong arm and good range

Why don't they just lick their fingers?

by novaoakland on Dec 15, 2005 1:27 PM PST up reply actions  

I saw this from 2003
http://www.baseballamerica.com/online/features/03top10s/devilrays.html

Perez is a capable defensive shortstop who could be a star at second base. He has soft hands, a strong arm and good instincts. He has excellent range for the position

Why don't they just lick their fingers?

by novaoakland on Dec 15, 2005 1:31 PM PST up reply actions  

He got the knock of playing bad D
because he was playing 3B for the first time last year.  

by RunRickeyRun on Dec 15, 2005 2:03 PM PST up reply actions  

5 of his 9 Errors were at 3rd
http://www.baseballreference.com/p/perezan01.shtml
"I'm so green and gold that I hang on every pitch, not just every game." - Lew Wolff

by BleacherDrummer on Dec 15, 2005 3:31 PM PST up reply actions  

who knows?
Perez could be to the Bradley trade as Ellis was to the Damon trade...
"Don't go getting all Alexander Haig on me," Beane told Forst.

by Poppy on Dec 15, 2005 12:45 PM PST reply actions  

excellent point
I think down the road he could make this a real good deal with these numbers. Lets give both of these players a chance before we start bashing them.

by sctr76 on Dec 15, 2005 12:48 PM PST reply actions  

from a dodger season ticket holder
i saw antonio perez play many, many times at dodger stadium - he's good.  he's obviously not a 40 home-run candidate, but he has enough pop to stick, and a good eye.  as awful as the season was last year, perez was one of the people I was happy to see at the plate.

by kwyjibow on Dec 15, 2005 12:58 PM PST reply actions  

perez
my friend is a Dodger fan; said Perez has a good bat but fell out of favor with Tracy last year because of poor work ethic.

by oakfan808 on Dec 15, 2005 1:00 PM PST reply actions  

I just had an overwhelming feeling of...
Icantwaitfortheseasontostart. :-)
Chicks dig Moneyball.

by Kelly on Dec 15, 2005 1:04 PM PST reply actions  

I was diagnosed
with that on October 15th.
Copernicus felt the same way about the geocentric crew.

by salb918 on Dec 15, 2005 1:07 PM PST up reply actions  

i've got a fever
and the only cure for this fever is "more baseball".
"Oakland is home, and you always want to go home. Anytime you get the chance, you're happy to go home." - #24 Rickey Henderson

by burnone on Dec 15, 2005 1:36 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm just like everyone else,
I put my pants on one leg at a time, except when I'm wearing my pants I make gold records...

by TheCatch on Dec 15, 2005 5:19 PM PST up reply actions  

huh?
i'm on the east coast with a job that does not allow me to have the free time to turn on a television.... what report(s) have billy gunning for perez....

by pseudokiwi on Dec 15, 2005 1:07 PM PST reply actions  

huh?
i'm on the east coast with a job that does not allow me to have the free time to turn on a television.... what report(s) have billy gunning for perez....

by pseudokiwi on Dec 15, 2005 1:07 PM PST reply actions  

Perez was included by LA
 in the Bradley deal.
Copernicus felt the same way about the geocentric crew.

by salb918 on Dec 15, 2005 1:08 PM PST up reply actions  

Plus he was supposedly part
of the Hudson-to-LA package that obviously didn't happen
"We've come a long way, and I'm not talking about Virginia Slims, either." - Art Howe

by EastCoastA on Dec 15, 2005 2:05 PM PST up reply actions  

And check out his last year of AAA
Very recently, in 2004, his last full season of AAA he had this sick line:

AVE - 0.299
OBP - 0.380
SLG - 0.518
OPS - 0.898

That is sick line for a middle-infielder.  He will be a great super sub at SS, 2B, and 3B (allowing Chavy some DH ABs).  Great great pick up.

by dude on Dec 15, 2005 1:20 PM PST reply actions  

yes...
the cave i live in is not THAT far from the Nation.... ;)

But:

"Is there any question why Billy Beane has been pursuing him for some time now, if the published reports are correct?"

what published reports?

by pseudokiwi on Dec 15, 2005 1:20 PM PST reply actions  

A few people mentioned
Billy had been after perez for a while.

But it seems we hear that after every trade. Billy is persistent though just looking at the draft where we draft kids out of HS and than out of college.

Why don't they just lick their fingers?

by novaoakland on Dec 15, 2005 1:36 PM PST up reply actions  

He was going for perez last year
when he was talking about trading hudson to la.

by Tyler Bleszinski on Dec 15, 2005 1:39 PM PST up reply actions  

Sorry!
Misinterpretated your original post.
Copernicus felt the same way about the geocentric crew.

by salb918 on Dec 15, 2005 2:09 PM PST up reply actions  

^^^agreed
I have seen nothing about Billy "Durazoing" Perez in the past...

...you know what i mean...

Kiko Streetscherer...is where it ends!!!

by jrwolf on Dec 15, 2005 1:24 PM PST reply actions  

Perez...
I saw Perez play a few times against the Giants on TV and he really impressed me. I couldn't believe the A's not only got Bradley, but this guy also. Yes, he could be a supersub, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him breakout as a starter or be used as trade bait because of his starting potential.

From watching, he appeared to be an excellent defender with a plus arm. He looked pretty good at the dish against the G's as well; if he hits like he did against the G's and more in line with his AAA numbers, a SLUG between .425-.450 isn't out of the question--and remember, he's ONLY 25.

'It was just another win.' --Billy Beane

by balldood on Dec 15, 2005 1:25 PM PST reply actions  

Insurance
Beane is vary aware of how the A's offensive production fell off last year when Crosby was hurt.  Ginter and Thomas were expected to be offensive backups last year and it didn't happen.  If Perez doesn't turn into a no-hit player, the A's will have more insurance than they have had in years.
Jim

by jarforcefatherofforce on Dec 15, 2005 1:46 PM PST up reply actions  

just a thought
But I know ti has been implied here explicitly and implicitly, that Paul DePodesta has been tipping Beane's hand about the Dodger's farm system, and while I will admit that is possible, it seems highly out of character and unprofessional if true.  

Billy Beane has always seemed to go out of his way to help members of the team, players coached, and administration, to move to the next level in their careers, or a better place, even when it was a loss for the team.  [see, i.e. Rick Peterson closer to home, Tim Hudson  and Mark Mulder on their home town teams, Paul DePodesta given permission to interview with LA, etc].  In fact, that may not be Beane's influence but ownership.  Still, I highly suspect that Paul DePodesta is looking for another oppurtunity, although there are those that would argue it would be his first, to run a MLB team. I would imagine that he would not enjoy the thought of potential employers assuming that he had used his position of confidence with his prior employer, after termination, to injure that team.  

Furthermore, Beane has made great trades witout inside information.  He gave up talent, and he got talent, and i think we can leave it at that.

But I have been wrong before.  

I believe you Barry.

by mikedaviswhereareyou on Dec 15, 2005 1:26 PM PST reply actions  

There were reports that Beane was
after him before.  But I wouldn't doubt if Billy called him on the downlow to just talk about Perez.

by Tyler Bleszinski on Dec 15, 2005 1:45 PM PST up reply actions  

Tipping hand??
It is not like either Perez or Bradley are unknown coomodities.  As for their on field performance I doubt the A's needed any help in evauluating these players.  So it is not like Depodesta has secret information on them to give away.

My understanding is that the A's sought both of them at some point in the past, I think it helped that Depodesta is not longer with the Dodgers since he is the one who acquired both players and must have saw something in their stats he likes.

Second I think Beane probably did call him in regards to Bradleys personality and the alleged problems he caused in the club house.  What ever he told Beane again I doubt if it would be considered priveledged info by anyone. But rather what is his attitude like? and is it really bad enough to cause a negative effect?  In any event it helped his former organization make a deal they wanted to and get rid a player they publically said they needed drop.  If Depodesta knows the players better then their scouting department they have too many problems already.

Bob

ogallalabob

by ogallalabob on Dec 15, 2005 1:50 PM PST up reply actions  

Think of it as calling Depo as a refference:
Calling someone's previous employer about his/her performance.

Also Beane has sought out exclusive info on things like roid use before from any source he could.

Ninety percent I'll spend on good times, women, and Irish whiskey. The other ten percent I'll probably waste." -Tug McGraw

by saint @ Athletics Nation on Dec 15, 2005 1:54 PM PST up reply actions  

i was always under the impression
that gms were a fairly close knit community and that they were generally honest with each other in terms of evaluating talent... with institutional memories, it's better to play nice than to fleece someone through shady dealing.... fleecing someone because their inept is a whole 'nother issue ;)

by pseudokiwi on Dec 15, 2005 2:04 PM PST up reply actions  

GM's
My guess is that it pays to be friendly with the other GM's.  I do not think that GM's are going to lie about a players health (they have to pass a physical anyway), or tell the press what other GM's have said in private,

But I think that their is a lot of decption that goes on in this business wether it is who your actually looking to Draft or which other teams and players have been offered in trades or the ones you really are after.

More like playing poker, your nice to everyone, your not cheating but your also not telling the other teams your true cards and you need to bluff sometimes to make the best of your hand.

Bob

ogallalabob

by ogallalabob on Dec 15, 2005 2:25 PM PST up reply actions  

Thanks for linking us to that
I listened to Slusser yesterday and they claimed the beane interview was online but the site was having mad problems and I couldn't get it, so I was glad to hear it now.

Man!! Billy sounds pumped and he gives NO indication that Bradley is going to be a problem.  Milton saying "It's gonna be fun...looking forward to the opportunity" also speaks volumes to me.  That sort of thing is worth a million Ray Ratto articles, maybe more...

"You can't get any more 'Oakland' than the Coliseum. Get any more 'Oakland' and you're in San Leandro!" -Random Drunk Bum at Game

by rungood on Dec 15, 2005 2:53 PM PST up reply actions  

suspicously no one mentions frank thomas' name
the entire interview.  this makes me think the deal might be off.  has anyone heard anything?  

they even ask BB if he's going to add to the roster and he doesn't mention thomas at all.  he just says that he's happy with the roster they have.  he mentions that they're open to other things happening based on other teams making moves, but it does not seem like he's actively pursuing thomas anymore.  i was really hoping we would get both bradley and thomas, but it doesn't seem like that will happen anymore.  i hope i'm wrong.

by bringbackgallego on Dec 15, 2005 3:38 PM PST up reply actions  

Big Hurt
Talked to someone who works for the A's tonight (Thursday) at the bookstore I work at.  He was wearing a jacket with A's logo on it.  I assumed he was a fan. I asked him what he thought of the Bradley deal.  He mentioned that he liked it, and that if we get Thomas, it be even better.  I asked if he read AN, he said no, that he worked for the A's.  I didn't think to ask his name or position, unfortunately (working in retail at Christmas time turns your brain to mush).  He told me he thought an offer had been made to Thomas.  But he also said "Billy doesn't tell anyone what he's doing except Lew Wolfe".  Also, in the course of the conversation he said "Billy reads all the sites and laughs at the rumors".  Interesting.  Anyway, it would appear that the Thomas deal is still on the table.
Green and Gold since '73. #1712

by kent1 on Dec 16, 2005 2:19 AM PST up reply actions  

How would you characterize...
his body language, or enthusiasm, or....

when he said that getting Frank Thomas would "be even better"..

???

Was he joking, or did you perceive his statement was  something portending of the last piece of a plan falling in place...

just curious!!

"Don't go getting all Alexander Haig on me, either." Beane to Forst at GM winter meetings.

by Ducts on the Pawn on Dec 17, 2005 9:03 PM PST up reply actions  

He didn't appear to be
joking.  He sounded like there was a real chance to get Thomas.
Green and Gold since '73. #1712

by kent1 on Dec 18, 2005 7:31 PM PST up reply actions  

to be specific he says he did not recently
talk to depo about Bradley. But I got impression that sure last year they may have had conversations.
Why don't they just lick their fingers?

by novaoakland on Dec 15, 2005 3:11 PM PST up reply actions  

Ha!
That's the thing about BB: he doesn't lie, but you need to pay close attention to what he says, because what he says and what he omits are done deliberately.  
"Put a Milo on him." -Billy Beane

by kaweahkaweah on Dec 15, 2005 3:15 PM PST up reply actions  

one correction
Mark Mulder's from Chicago area, not St. Louis. A Sox-Cards series could have had a weird matchup  because Mark Buehrle is from the St. Louis area.

by vk on Dec 15, 2005 4:46 PM PST up reply actions  

Upside and downside
Actually, Blez, there are serious questions about Perez's attitude. I read a lot of the comments over at Dodger Thoughts, and most posters were sorry to see Bradley go, despite his problems, but many of them were happy to be rid of Perez. He reportedly resisted attempts to move to 3B (and I have to think that some of the motivation for acquiring him was as a backup to Chavez), and his defense is supposed to be poor even at his more natural position of 2B.

He seems to me like a player who could be anywhere from very good to totally useless. The upside has already been covered: good OBP, ability to play in the infield (and maybe Ron Washington can help him improve there), still young. The downside: poor defense (like Ginter), the offensive stats are still based on a small sample size (also like Ginter), and a poor attitude.

I've never been a big fan of Scutaro, but at this point he's pretty much a known quantity. Perez is much more of a question mark. There may still be room for both of them on the roster this year, depending on what other moves are made.

"Don't go getting all Alexander Haig on me, either." - Billy Beane

by andeux on Dec 15, 2005 1:58 PM PST reply actions  

But here's the thing...
..If the deal were only Bradley for Ethier, I think most of us would have been okay with that deal. So if Perez never hits another baseball (knock wood), the deal is still a steal for Oakland.

by Ozzz on Dec 15, 2005 7:06 PM PST up reply actions  

Blez -- Stop the Bad Hype
As far as I am concerned, there are NO questions about Milton Bradley's "attitude" or "what he will bring."  

Health?  That may be an issue.  

Getting along with the media?  That also may be an issue (mostly because those fucking leeches are just waiting for a blow upso they can get their big front page story).  

But "attitude?"  I posted a quote from Bradley in another diary yesterday (courtesy of the LA Times) that I think captures Bradley's attitude perfectly:  "I have to win.  I can't lose.  I'm unhappy when I lose.  It's probably why the situation in L.A. got to me the way it did.  The greatest time I had was the playoff season.  Everything was working.  I didn't mess up any clubhouse.  I came in and added to the clubhouse.  I helped make the team a playoff team.  I took a backseat to [Steve] Finley in center field.  I bled Dodger blue.  I did everything in my power.  I played my knee off for the Dodgers.  I did everything I could."  

Gee, he sounds like a real sour puss to me.  I hate having guys on my team that NEED to win.  Ha!!  You have it all wrong.  The reason that Milton has occasional blowups is that he can't stand losing.  That sounds great to me, and a nice contrast from the laissez-faire attitude of Eric Chavez...  

You know who has a similar attitude to Milton:  Miguel Tejada.  Miguel was a similar type player, he couldn't stand losing (as is evidence by his recent tantrum in Baltimore).  If Bradley made a trade demand in Baltimore, the press would be all over him like flies on shit.  But because it was Miguel, the press doesn't say a thing.  I think there's a reasonable argument to be made that the only reason Miguel's never had an "outburst" before is that he's NEVER PLAYED ON A LOSING TEAM.  Now that he's on a losing team he's frustrated.  

Same with Bradley, as long as we're winning, Bradley will be fine.  So, if you think that Miguel had "attitude" problems, then you can be down on Bradley.  But, if you think that Miguel's attitude problems are just a result of Baltimore's shitty ass team, then maybe you'll want to give Milton the benefit of the doubt until he actually has a "blowup."  

by Uncle Charlie on Dec 15, 2005 2:30 PM PST reply actions  

well
and Miguel has never gone nuts on a fan, or beat his wife......

by SeanR on Dec 15, 2005 3:29 PM PST up reply actions  

bradley's only been accussed
of beating his wife, never convicted...wow did i just say that?
"Baseball is like church, many attend, few understand" - Leo Durocher

by gWiLiKeRzZz on Dec 15, 2005 3:53 PM PST up reply actions  

We know there was smoke.
And has been smoke for a long time. Pretty good guess that it's not coming from 'the fire in his belly'.

by Ozzz on Dec 15, 2005 7:07 PM PST up reply actions  

Smoke?
What, has he been hanging out with Jeremy Giambi or something?
"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Dec 15, 2005 7:50 PM PST up reply actions  

jeez, beating is such a strong word.
Every lady needs to be pushed in the right direction once in a while. Maybe she wasn't staying in the kitchen and making him dinner? Or she had foolish aspirations of a career in mind?

!POW! Right in the Kisser!

(as there is no sarcsm key here on my keyboard, to avoid a firestorm I'm going to go ahead and say this is a joke, and one in poor taste with a Family Guy reference.)

hollowspec: What's your favorite beer? Dan Johnson: Free.

by FireballerHARDEN on Dec 15, 2005 4:21 PM PST up reply actions  

I'm always wary of....
...an opinion expressed in foul language, but that aside, Uncle Charlie has given Bradley his stamp of approval based, I think, on Bradley's statements that he has to win, can't stand losing, etc. The man has been on 4 teams in 6 years? Is that right? That doesn't happen to too many 'winners'. The guy sounds like a thug to me - a thug that can play the game - when healthy. Beane knows exactly what he is doing here. This is a risk worth taking IF Bradley behaves himself. It's up to him! Blaming the press, BTW, is a silly excuse. All players in every sport deal with the press. Remember, they have to put up with him, too. Also,to compare him to Tejada is a huge disservice to the latter. I suspect Tejada is a far better man that Bradley.

by doubleplayer on Dec 15, 2005 7:00 PM PST up reply actions  

Skepticism
All of you seem very worried and MB hasnt played one day yet with Oakland. I think i will laugh at the end of season when everyone will call him the second coming of Tejada.

by oaklandwhat on Dec 15, 2005 9:22 PM PST up reply actions  

2nd coming of Tejada
You mean he'll be healthy for 162 games and uber-productive at the plate?

Two things that he's never done yet.

T'would be nice...

I don't hate, I just respond aggressively to stupidity

by grover on Dec 16, 2005 7:52 AM PST up reply actions  

OK, that wasn't as clear as I'd like
The combination of the two has never happened.
I don't hate, I just respond aggressively to stupidity

by grover on Dec 16, 2005 7:54 AM PST up reply actions  

updated by Kurkjian
After dealing for Vasquez, the Sox have a ridiculous surplus of starting pitching ... The fear of Crede's chronic back issues has put them in a posiiton to trade Crede and Garland, whose up for a big raise through arbitraton, to Texas for Hank Blalock.  Apparently, Tezas is willing to take a chance on crede's back ... interesting how Williams, the Sox GM, is far from content with the team that one the world series ...

by jfucsd10 @ Athletics Nation on Dec 15, 2005 4:14 PM PST reply actions  

Ugh
We struggle against Garland. If it happens, atleast we will face him in that ball park. See if we can Chan Ho him.
"You know I don't like beautiful, well put together women, give me a nice nose break or a lazy eye." Johnny Drama

by rook on Dec 15, 2005 4:18 PM PST up reply actions  

I like this trade all around
Beane has had his eye on Bradley since Bradley was in the minors with Montreal (and possibly knew of him as a high school ballplayer). We know how Beane never really gives up trying to get a player he likes. All things considered it's a risk he had to take, especially since he only gave up a prospect.

And Perez? That's terrific!

All in all a real F'n A's trade, I think.

by OaklandSi on Dec 15, 2005 4:24 PM PST reply actions  

Fans -- HA!
If there's anyone in the world that deserves regular beatings, it's the collective group known as baseball fans.  Baseball fans scream racial epithets at players, make jokes about players families (e.g., the fan that made a joke about Doug Brocail's stillborn baby -- which precipitated the Texas bullpen chair-throwing incident in Oakland last year), reach over the "invisible wall" to touch players and grab their uniforms, etc.  Fans are a bunch of fucking idiots, and they generally deserve it if a player jumps into the stands and beats the bejesus out of them.  

Fans always use the excuse: Hey, they're professional athletes, they should have think skin.  

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.  Bacause baseball players happen to be gifted at a sport that allows them to make a lot of money, they should be immune to having racist comments hurled at them all game long.  

Let's revise that sentence:  Hey, they're __, they should have thick skin.  Replace the ___, with "doctors," "lawyers," "postal workers," "tech support employees," "record store clerks," "homeless people."  

YOU COULD PUT ANY OCCUPATION IN THAT SENTENCE AND THE ARGUMENT IS JUST AS STRONG.  In other words, there is absolutely no reason in the world why a baseball player's skin should be any thicker than any other person's skin.  

If someone cames into my office and said: "Hey __, you dirty garlic-smelling spaghetti bending wop -- I slept with your mom last night, your wife is a whore, you're ugly and you suck at your job..." I would jump out of my chair and punch them in the face.  Is there any reason why Milton Bradley, Ron Artest, etc. aren't entitled to do the same thing?  I don't think so.  

Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm tired of ill-mannered fans getting a free pass.  

by Uncle Charlie on Dec 15, 2005 4:32 PM PST reply actions  

I think you're right, and wrong...
I think fans cross the line sometimes, but so do most people who drink a lot.  I've been in many situations where people have made drunken inapropriate comments both in the park and other places, BUT as a rational adult I don't throw chairs at them or their spouses.  I take a deep breath and realize it's not about me, it's about them and their issues.  I don't think fans get a free pass, but I don't get paid jack and i've never punched someone in the ballpark, despite many offensive comments.

by TheCatch on Dec 15, 2005 5:36 PM PST up reply actions  

Pay me $7m a year...
...and I'll agree with you that my wife is a whore.

That money buys you a lot of Kleenex to wipe your eyes with, and it's entirely dependent on you having the ballsac required to listen to fans giving you crap and let it slide regardless.

It's, like, the way the game is played. Anyone surprised by that hasn't read the script before signing up for the show.

by Ozzz on Dec 15, 2005 7:12 PM PST up reply actions  

Or Perez could be another Charles Thomas
I like him a bit more than that, but it's not like a whole lot of Beane's recent fringe player acquisitions have worked out too great lately.

(Cruz, Ginter, and Thomas come to mind.)

I'm confident in most of Beane's moves, and I like Bradley, but I'm not about to put my confidence in Antonio Perez just because Beane had his eye on him.

by walk off bunt on Dec 15, 2005 7:20 PM PST reply actions  

Why not?
It seems to me like 9 out of 10 players that Beane gets end up producing well... and 8 times out of 10 more than the guy they were traded for.

Clearly I just pulled those #'s out of nowhere, but truly, if Beane had his eye on him, can't we assume that there's a really high % chance he'll turn out to produce in a big way given some role?

Beane's talent "eye" (read: computer, staff, knowledge of undervalued, overall intelligence) is the best in the majors... It seems to me that you should put your confidence in Perez if for no other reason than simply because Beane had his eye on him.

And no, this isn't trusting Beane blindly... Well, not too blindly anyway. In fact, it's mostly just relying on the percentages -- Oakland tends to win at a very solid rate even in rebuilding/decline years, and if one looks at W/L records over the past several years, Beane is simply the best. And it is rarely a bad decision to go with and trust in the best.

by Alon on Dec 15, 2005 7:48 PM PST up reply actions  

clearly
It's not 9 out of 10.  Not even Billy expects it to be 9 out of 10.  You acquire a guy if you think he's got a pretty good shot at being good, but it's always a gamble.  You don't expect to be right 90% of the time, any more than you expect to get a hit in 9 out of 10 at-bats.  Billy's average is better than most, but way more than 1/10 of his acquisitions don't pan out.

Just this last year, we've got Ginter and Thomas who didn't work out.  The year before that there were Rhodes and Karros. Were there 36 other new acquisitions in the last two years who did work out?  I don't think so.  

by iglew on Dec 16, 2005 1:58 AM PST up reply actions  

Clearly,
you missed my point entirely...
"Clearly I just pulled those #'s out of nowhere, but truly, if Beane had his eye on him, can't we assume that there's a really high % chance he'll turn out to produce in a big way given some role?"

I even say that those numbers are pulled from nowhere, just random #'s used to make a point.

How can you be so sure that Thomas and Ginter didn't work out? It was the first year. But of course, you   must be 100% right, it's absolutely impossible to deal them for a different player that might be useful, it's impossible for them to rebound, it's not even thinkable that they are doing exactly what BB had hoped they would do (i.e. a potential power slugger vs. lefties and a good defensive and running 4th/5th OF should one of our talented-but-oft-injured bunch go down)

Thomas is 26. Why are you so adamant that he has no higher ceiling than what he's reached? In fact, last year was a huge off year for him as he switched to the AL -- his normal career OBP (MLB + Minors) was about 360. Not bad for a speedy, quality D OF. You're telling me that after one year, at the age of 26, he has no chance to be quality?

For Rhodes we managed to get an all-star catcher who, like Thomas, had a tough time adjusting to the AL. However, that does not mean he won't rebound, and even if he does, Kendall's other assets have been hashed and rehashed enough that I don't feel the need to go over them... That's an argument for another diary. However, it cannot be argued that Kendall is a detriment to the team, or at least as much a detriment as other catchers are. Kendall helps develop pitching staff, gets on base at a usually solid rate (off year last year) and his refusal to strike out last year could very well mean a return to form in OBP in the future -- he still has his eye.

With each of Billy's acquisitions, you must look at the whole, not the parts of the puzzle. Does a steering wheel make much sense when looked at independently from a car? No, it just looks like a circular object with no apparent purpose. However, with a car, it becomes the key component to keeping the whole afloat. Such are BB's acquisitions -- for each part, look at the whole, which includes: A) the player himself certainly, B) anyone Billy got for the player, and most importantly, C) the success of the team a whole as far as wins and losses. BB's been the king of that last category for as long as he's been GM, and that last category is truly what is important.

Certainly BB's acquisitions do not always turn out as planned. Just as certainly, they work out for him at a much higher % in some way, shape, or form than other GM's acquisitions work out for them.

That was my point.

by Alon on Dec 16, 2005 4:21 AM PST up reply actions  

Chill, dude
I got your point.  I even agree with it.  I wasn't criticizing, just pointing out that your "random" guess of 9 out of 10 isn't the correct number to back up the point.

Yes, of course, I understand that Charles Thomas is still young, and the Rhodes trade was semi-salvaged by turning it into Kendall, but come on, you don't really think those guys produced for Oakland?

Billy has a great record with trades, but he doesn't score a hit 9 times out of 10.

by iglew on Dec 17, 2005 10:52 AM PST up reply actions  

Agree
The way I look at it just as many do not work out as actually work out.(I would add Kielty, Redman and Dotel to the above)

I am not sure if his average is better then most or not, but he does 1) have plan on why certain players should improve the team and he follows that plan.  unlike some teams who just do not appear to have any rhyme or reason why they acquired a certain player.  2)  He also has a sabrmetric system in place which indicates how many wins a player is worth and he sticks with his system.  3) If it does not work out he will usually find away to cut his losses and move on.  4) most of his acquisitions are low investmensts to begin with so there is a lot of risk involved,  (i.e. Thomas he is a throw in player who could pan out and pay huge dividends but he also is not eating up resources)

Bob

ogallalabob

by ogallalabob on Dec 16, 2005 10:11 AM PST up reply actions  

Perez's D
Hi,

I'm a Dodger fan. Came over hoping to find a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth over losing Ethier; oh well. Perez put up decent numbers, and looked good doing it, at the plate, but his defense looked awful. Granted, he was playing 3B for the first time, but it was pretty ugly at 2B, too. FWIW, one of the guys at Dodger Thoughts (remember Steve?) started calling him Darth Offerman (after Jose Offerman, who holds the LA Dodger's single season record for errors recorded).

Also, he took a pitch off the face, in the Carribean league a couple weeks ago, so he could start off the year injured.

Anyway, good luck next year. A lot of us are going to be pulling pretty hard for Bradley to finally get it together.

by bokonon42 on Dec 16, 2005 12:52 AM PST reply actions  

Idiots you all can be!
Splitting hairs. Bill King knows the facts, it is either our year, or it is not! That simple.

It is all about Crosby and Harden. Two young men with the heart and dash to be young World Series Team winners.

Don't forget that it is all about "leaders" standing up to be addressed.

by baseballbill on Dec 16, 2005 1:07 AM PST reply actions  

guys
remember the ole Hudson for Edwin Jackson/Antonio Perez (THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN A DOWNRIGHT HORRIBLE DEAL.. LOL), well, we ended up getting Perez anyways. Billy always gets what he wants :P
RIP Bill King "By the Beard of Zeus!" "I don't know if you heard me counting. I did over a thousand"

by ohad on Dec 16, 2005 8:38 AM PST reply actions  

scutaro = man love
Crap...he's the one guy my wife will let me sleep with.   Ooops.  TMI  

by scosco on Dec 17, 2005 2:28 AM PST reply actions  

Perez IS an attitude problem
Dodger fan here.  The suggestion that Antonio Perez does not carry the attitude concerns that Bradley does is incorrect.  He certainly has not had the run-ins that Bradley has, but his judgment and motivation are still questionable.

In early 2005, Perez virtually was guaranteed of having four AB a night for the Dodgers if he only was willing to try 3B.     He said he didn't want to play there, and only after a hamstring injury sent him to the minors on a rehab assignment did he reconsider playing there.   What player would turn down the chance to start every day?  

Perez is a good contact hitter who will take a lot of pitches, but he is NO super-sub.  His glove is poor, and he likely would not have made the Dodgers' team out of spring training.

That being said, good luck to your team. May they beat the Angels. Their bandwagoning fans are annoying.

by elysianpark62 on Dec 19, 2005 3:00 PM PST reply actions  

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