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The Gamer Is In Oakland

Tyler_at_maya_school_tiny by Tyler Bleszinski on in News Comment 380 comments

Look out Oakland, the A's now have Milton Bradley.  Bradley is now a part of the outlook for the 2006 season.

Many of you have claimed that you hate having a disruptive force like Bradley in the A's clubhouse, but to me, this speaks to Billy Beane's faith in the strength of character in the A's clubhouse.  Beane believes that the A's clubhouse is a unique environment that can positively affect even the most serious misanthrope.

On the field, this could significantly improve the A's offense as Bradley can be an on-base machine.  He will probably play right field with Nick Swisher moving to first base and Dan Johnson being the DH.  Although don't be surprised to see Jay Payton dealt as well.  I don't think this rules out the A's continuing their pursuit of Frank Thomas.  The A's defense is remarkable now.  If they do keep Payton, they essentially have three center fielders in their outfield.

The A's are hoping they get the Bradley from Cleveland in 2003.  A .421 OBP, .922 OPS.  Bradley was one of the most unheralded offensive weapons that season.

He's not the power source the A's have been seeking, but he also won't clog the bases and is one heck of a defensive outfielder.

Bradley's major flaw is his reputation as a loose cannon.  But obviously the A's front office believes they can overcome that.  If he's 100 percent healthy, Bradley can be quite the offensive force.  The other thing is, he's only 27 years old.

It hurts giving up Ethier, especially since he seemed destined for great things and was skyrocketing through the organization.  But the A's have a somewhat similar prospect in Daric Barton who will likely be everything Ethier is and more.

I like getting Bradley.  But I still think The Big Hurt's power would also be a welcome addition.

And then with the rotation and Bradley and Thomas in the mix, look out American League.

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If we do sign Thomas ...
... I think we've sewn up the AL West.

And, remember, I've been channeling Eeyore Oaktoon the last couple months ...

@('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2005 2:51 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Frank Thomas
So what does this mean about us getting Frank Thomas?

by limecat on Dec 13, 2005 2:52 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

If we get Thomas
Which I still would really like to see, where does that put DJ if we're moving Swish to 1B?  I suppose Payton/Kielty would have to be traded.  We already know that Payton doesn't play well with others (see Boston) when he has to share time.
I believe in the Church of Baseball

by DAshley Go As on Dec 13, 2005 4:59 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

i love this deal
finally the a's have some depth.  

we get bradley without giving up our #6 starter saarloos.  we get a backup for chavez and crosby.

now i'm okay with adding frank thomas because if/when he gets injured, at least the other DH option isn't kielty.

the odd men out seem to be scutaro and payton.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2005 2:53 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I agree
I think if this team signs Thomas, then it's going to the World Series.  They would have enough offense to go with their pitching.  Could you imagine Ellis, Bradley, Thomas, Chavez, Crosby, Kotsay, Johnson, Swisher and Kendall as a lineup to complement that pitching staff?

I also think Antonio Perez is a great and underrated addition, especially with Chavy's shoulder being cranky.

by Tyler Bleszinski on Dec 13, 2005 2:54 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

i like the bats...
but the thought of how good our defense will be is what puts it over the top for me.
Go A's -- Nebraska

by Ryan Armbrust on Dec 13, 2005 2:56 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Aren't you just a little
worried about injuries? Bradley missed most of '05--and is coming off knee surgery. Thomas would be an injury question mark. Harden. Crosby. Chavez.

I LOVE this trade ( I think Ethier is overrated and I can't believe we got this much for him), but lets temper our enthusiasm a bit. They've still got to win the games, Bradley's got to fit in with this clubhouse, there are still too many "ifs" to pronounce this a World Series team.

by Alien on Dec 13, 2005 3:01 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

now we have the depth
of course there will be injuries, there always are.  but this team is deep enough b/c of saarloos (instead of glynn), a decent 4th OF and perez (instead of scutaro), unlike last year.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2005 3:05 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

absolutely
Like I said, I think this is a great trade--maybe an unbelievable trade---and I generally think what BB has done this offseason has been good.

I just like to be realistic--a few key injuries would still be real hard to overcome. And yes, there will always be injuries, but if you make a point to sign injury-prone players, I think its good to temper enthusiasm a bit.

by Alien on Dec 13, 2005 3:12 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh!
So you're going to drag "reality" into it?!?
"HRs by second basemen are sexy. They're rare and exotic." -Kyli

by McFood on Dec 13, 2005 3:05 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Thank you
Blez - come on...drink more of the kool aid.  A player that's played over 100 games only twice in his career, has never hit more than 20 home runs in a season, and never had more than 70 RBI's hardly guarantees the A's a spot in the World Series - let's get Crosby to play a full season, let alone Bradley, before we proclaim that in December.  I haven't even addressed the fact that Bradley was shipped out of Cleveland for his attitude, and now has been shipped out of LA for his attitude.  I would also like to see Thomas added, but he's not excatly been Lou Gehrig the last few years either.
I agree on paper this makes the A's better, but nobody has any idea how this affects the clubhouse.  Bradley marches to the beat of his own drummer, which I don't believe will impact the others in the clubhouse, but if Bradley's complaints are ignored (which I believe they would be) then how will he react?  Remember Terrence Long and Macha didn't get along very well, and Bradley seems more tempermental to me.
Enjoy the trade, even celebrate it.  However, no World Series has ever been won, or "sewn up" in December.  

by IndianaAsfan on Dec 13, 2005 4:25 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Thomas has been better than Gehrig....
over the last couple of seasons.  Gehrig hasn't played in any games since he went down with that disease.  What was it called again?

by timed exposure on Dec 13, 2005 5:38 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

yeah, that was TERRIBLE
And Blez--that's woofing you're doing, don't you know?  Say if we add Thomas, we're going to the playoffs.  Anything can happen in the playoffs, we know all too well--we've got a huge first-round playoff jinx to overcome and we don't need to make it any worse by issuing guarantees.

by rubin sierra on Dec 13, 2005 6:28 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

If Thomas is signed...
...then I love this deal because we picked up another solid bat. If we don't sign Thomas (or Piazza) and Bradley IS the "big bat" that we have been looking for, then the deal is good, but I'm not sure if we solved our problem.

I definitely agree that Perez is the underrated part of this deal though. Basically at minimum we got an above average outfielder and a young utility man for a prospect. I was huge on Ethier, but until he makes it in the bigs, he is just that... a prospect (albeit a good one).

by timq24 on Dec 13, 2005 9:14 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

If Bradley is...
the "big bat," I don't think we've solved it at all. He played 141 games 2 years ago; he played 130 in 2000, 142 in 1998. And all of 80 last year. (minor leagues included)

We can't depend on him being healthy; we can't depend on Thomas either, but at least Thomas and Bradley would make me feel better. But that's not the mail goal of the organization.

Perez (other than not having pitched in the Tampa organization) is a decent player. His .297 last year was the highest average in any level baseball;   OPSed 890 in Vegas a year ago, so he's not bad at all. Of course, he'll be behind Scoots, and probably not Ginter.

Ethier... perhaps not the highest-rated A's prospect, but definetly the hottest. Sell high is exactly what happened here - I personally am not too high on him, it seems that his effectiveness depends on this batting average, and that's usually not a good thing, to depend on luck.

by Jjjsixsix on Dec 13, 2005 9:32 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Behind?
I think Perez immediately moves ahead of Scutaro for the utility role, though his defense does remain to be tested.

by doctawojo on Dec 14, 2005 6:44 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Good News!!
Defense + Dominant Pitching +Good Health = A successful 2006 in Oakland!!

Bring on The Big Hurt!!!!

by GrewUpAtTheColiseum on Dec 13, 2005 2:54 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

If we get Frank Thomas,
this team will be insanely awesome. If we don't... it's got some questions.

This team has a great clubhouse, but it didn't fix Jose Guillen nor Arthur Rhodes nor Mark Redman, and Bradley has a more difficult history than all of them combined.

"Baseball fans are junkies, and their heroin is the statistic." -Robert S. Wieder

by Kyli on Dec 13, 2005 2:54 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

pirates have 3 lefties in the pen
maybe we should get mike gonzalez
"What's the ugliest part of your body...some say your nose, some say your toes, but i think it's your MIND." - Mothers of Invention

by redclay22 on Dec 13, 2005 2:55 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Yes!!!
That's a guy i'd really love to see in Oakland.  Haven't thought about him much at all, and i'm not sure the pirates would trade him.  For those who don't know who he is (not many do), he nearly posted a 10 to 1 K to walk rate in 04 as a lefty out of the pen, and he's allowed only 4 homeruns in his past 93 and 1/3 innings.  The guy can flat out dominate anyone, and he's 27.

by Little Rickey on Dec 13, 2005 3:00 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

his k/bb ratios went down in 05
substantially.  regardless, would love to see him in the pen for the green and gold serving as a lefty set up man.  

im not good at dreaming up package deals so if anyone wants to chime in...

"What's the ugliest part of your body...some say your nose, some say your toes, but i think it's your MIND." - Mothers of Invention

by redclay22 on Dec 13, 2005 3:04 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Ethier ...
...profiles as a 4th OF.  This is a great deal.

by danielj on Dec 13, 2005 2:56 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Ethier???
He was so promising...I feel like he sould've been kept.  Bradley has so little power.
"That dude's out of his tree." -Zito

by SacTownAthletic on Dec 13, 2005 2:56 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

OPS
he had an OPS of .835 last year. he has power
Go A's -- Nebraska

by Ryan Armbrust on Dec 13, 2005 2:57 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

not necessarily true
he should be good for about 25-30 homers a season, i think. he hit 13 in just 75 games last year.

that's not negligable power. he also hit one of the most towering upper-deck shots i've ever seen. granted, it was in colorado, but it was HUGE. he's hit some similar lasers in LA i've seen personally. when he connects, he's got pretty good power.

by vishal on Dec 13, 2005 2:59 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

He has power, just not home run
power.  But that might change in Oakland.  He had a healthy ops.  

Barton will be better.

by Tyler Bleszinski on Dec 13, 2005 3:00 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Isolated slugging of nearly 200
In dodger stadium last year.  He has some pop.  More importantly his career OBP is .350.  Ethier slugged .497 in the Texas League, back of a .319 average.  18 homers over a full season in Midland does not translate well to the big leagues.  Billy knows what he is doing, Colletti got taken to the cleaners here...

by Little Rickey on Dec 13, 2005 3:03 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Somewhere Depo is laughing
"I'm so green and gold that I hang on every pitch, not just every game." - Lew Wolff

by BleacherDrummer on Dec 13, 2005 3:05 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Javier Herrera
Is also a 5 tool outfielder in our system that could turn out to be as good as Ethier.

And I agree that our outfield is still deep.  Swish is young, Kotsay is locked up and Barton is on the way.  

If it's true that Bradley is under a one year deal and walks next year, that would be alarming.  But he is only 27 and if we could keep him, our outfield looks good for a very long time.

"I'm so green and gold that I hang on every pitch, not just every game." - Lew Wolff

by BleacherDrummer on Dec 13, 2005 3:28 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Don't like this trade...........
because I don't think we will be able to keep Bradley for more than 2006.  He is arbitration eligible and looking at a decent raise from his $2.5 Million of last year, so how much will he ask for in 2007????

If we only have Bradley for next year, then that's a lot to give up in Ethier for a 1-year rental.

Also, Barton may be younger but not similar to Ethier in that Ethier can actually play a position on defense.  Do we really want to see Barton playing left field if Bradley is let go after 2006???

Barton in the outfield could be worse than Mini-G.

GangGreen23

by GangGreen23 on Dec 13, 2005 7:40 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

of course there are risks
but ...wow...what an F'n A's trade. A talented and young major leaguer plus a good utility guy, in exchange for only one very good prospect who is unproven at the major league level?

by OaklandSi on Dec 13, 2005 2:57 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

It really is a F'in A trade.
"How much room do I have to cover out here?" -- Kotsay

by Sharon on Dec 13, 2005 3:02 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Awesome trade
First reaction is this is one hell of a deal. Ethier is a great prospect, but was a year away from contributing to the big league club. The A's get Bradley without taking away ANYTHING from the big league squad. Billy is still left with chips (Saarloos, Cruz, Kennedy) if someone goes down. Great deal

by mattcschmidt on Dec 13, 2005 2:58 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

best outfield defense
...maybe ever? certainly the best defensive outfield in the majors.

by vishal on Dec 13, 2005 3:00 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Not even the best ever on the A's
That would be Rickey Henderson, Dwayne Murphy and Tony Armas.
"HRs by second basemen are sexy. They're rare and exotic." -Kyli

by McFood on Dec 13, 2005 3:08 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

okay, that was a little hyperbolic.
but forgive me for being excited :)

by vishal on Dec 13, 2005 3:23 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I dunno ...
I suspect this OF would compare favorably with the leather to any the game has ever seen.
Check out some awesome music ...

by devo on Dec 13, 2005 3:51 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Not only that, Kotsay should remain
healthier with more days off now.  They have a player who is nearly as good in center.  Amazing.

by Tyler Bleszinski on Dec 13, 2005 3:03 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Well...
this totally screws any hope of me being productive for a while. I was already having a hard time focusing, and breaking A's news just means it's all over. Eh, who needs to study for exams anyway? :\
"A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings." -Earl Wilson

by whiteshoes40 on Dec 13, 2005 3:03 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Thank
Thank God I didn't hear this until today's finals were over, otherwise I would have been screwed!

by Dave V on Dec 13, 2005 4:07 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

same
i had to take my science and math finals within 1 hour of each other. if this had been brought out this morning i would have probably flunked both.
Ron Burgundy: Brick, where did you get a hand grenade? Brick Tamland: I don't know.

by Kratos on Dec 13, 2005 5:25 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

yeah...
somehow this is much more interesting (and pertinent) than ancient greek history....

by sypher1504 on Dec 13, 2005 5:50 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Mee Too!
I have to write a paper on greek history as well, bye bye gpa

by TheCatch on Dec 13, 2005 9:46 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

If only...
...we could have locked up Jeff Kent along with Milton! Talk about fireworks!

I do think an interesting aspect of this trade is that the A's certainly aren't the most diverse team around, something the Toy Maker will surely notice.

Also, I wasn't part of AN during the Guillen ordeal.  Wasn't he capable of contaminating the clubhouse?  There is some risk involved here.

"I'm so green and gold that I hang on every pitch, not just every game." - Lew Wolff

by BleacherDrummer on Dec 13, 2005 3:03 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I never saw anything negative about
Guillen in the A's clubhouse published. He did get into trouble for mouthing off to the press about not getting enough playing time.

by OaklandSi on Dec 13, 2005 3:06 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, it may have been more his lack of walks.
Still, I'm excited to see how Bradley fits in to the A's fraternity.

I'd love to see this work out.

"I'm so green and gold that I hang on every pitch, not just every game." - Lew Wolff

by BleacherDrummer on Dec 13, 2005 3:10 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

He did a lot of mouthing off to the press.
About Macha and playing time, along with complaints about Beane. There was nothing substantiated but there were rumors going around that part of the reason BB didn't consider offering him a contract was because a number of players didn't like the guy. 'Course, rumors are kind of inevitable with a guy like that regardless of their veracity, but I wouldn't be surprised to find out they were true...
"Baseball fans are junkies, and their heroin is the statistic." -Robert S. Wieder

by Kyli on Dec 13, 2005 3:23 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Guillen & Bradley
Both strike me in the same way; as guys who have made trouble before but who also consistently produce good on-the-field results.  Funny thing is, that description would also fit Kenny Rogers.  But for me, Rogers is worse because when he made trouble, he picked on a poor cameraman.  Guillen and Bradley seem more likely to make trouble for their fellow millionaire players and coaches--they pick fair fights, at least.

by rubin sierra on Dec 13, 2005 6:40 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

So how likely is the Thomas signing, now?
"How much room do I have to cover out here?" -- Kotsay

by Sharon on Dec 13, 2005 3:03 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I still think it's gonna happen
but I suppose we won't know that for sure until the news conference announcing the Bradley deal.

by Tyler Bleszinski on Dec 13, 2005 3:05 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I hope so.
"How much room do I have to cover out here?" -- Kotsay

by Sharon on Dec 13, 2005 3:06 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

no more or less likely i'd say
meaning, fairly likely.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2005 3:07 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The Game Is On
Would have been good to see Either, but I like the off season activity.

by louismg on Dec 13, 2005 3:04 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Now if.....
Bradley doesn't end up in jail for spousal abuse....
"Our team has always been like, 'You're a rookie? OK, here's the ball,'" Barry Zito

by 510inDenver on Dec 13, 2005 3:05 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

The 25 man will be very full
Here are the players that need to be on it:

Joe Blanton
Kiko Calero
Justin Duchscherer
Rich Harden
Danny Haren
Esteban Loaiza
Kirk Saarloos
Huston Street
Jay Witasick
Barry Zito

Jason Kendall
Adam Melhuse

Eric Chavez
Bobby Crosby
Mark Ellis
Dan Johnson
Antonio Perez

Milton Bradley
Mark Kotsay
Jay Payton
Nick Swisher

21 players

That leaves 4 spots for all of the following (and perhaps more in the running):

Marco Scutaro
Bobby Kielty
Joe Kennedy
Matt Watson
Ron Flores
Chad Gaudin
Charles Thomas

and then there's Frank Thomas to consider...

Go A's -- Nebraska

by Ryan Armbrust on Dec 13, 2005 3:08 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Is Perez a lock for the 25-man?
I haven't heard much about him.
"I'm so green and gold that I hang on every pitch, not just every game." - Lew Wolff

by BleacherDrummer on Dec 13, 2005 3:11 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

perez
http://thebaseballcube.com/players/P/antonio-perez.shtml
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2005 3:11 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

He's been in some deals
Went to Seattle as part of the Griffey deal

Then traded to TB straight up for Randy Winn

Then to LA for Jason Romano.

"I'm so green and gold that I hang on every pitch, not just every game." - Lew Wolff

by BleacherDrummer on Dec 13, 2005 3:17 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Winn to Seattle
Wasn't Winn traded for Lou Pinella?  Or something to that effect?

by ragnarok on Dec 13, 2005 4:15 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

yeah ...
he was compensation ... similar to how Youk was going to be our compensation for allowing BB out of his contract to sign with Boston.
Check out some awesome music ...

by devo on Dec 13, 2005 4:22 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

He pitches too?
No wonder!

Billy is thinking he gets both a utility infielder and a RP in one of those precious slots. I have to say, his K/BB ratio is much better pitching than hitting. 2.97 ERA in the minor leagues-not bad.

by broaklyn on Dec 13, 2005 3:34 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Mistake
I'm fairly certain that's a mistake on the BaseballCube page.

by doctawojo on Dec 13, 2005 6:20 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

looking at it agian
it must be a mistake.
Go A's -- Nebraska

by Ryan Armbrust on Dec 13, 2005 8:09 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

well
Perez and Scutaro would fill the same role, and Perez is better
Go A's -- Nebraska

by Ryan Armbrust on Dec 13, 2005 3:14 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

easy
kielty
kennedy
frank thomas
scutaro/flores
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2005 3:11 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

bradley
bradley will probably start the year on the DL, i'd figure. that buys some time for someone at least.

by vishal on Dec 13, 2005 3:32 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Good move.
I like Bradley and am happy for you A's fans because your team is now improved.

Now don't sign Frank Thomas and enjoy your day A's fans, I know I will.

"Hope is not the conviction that something will turn out well but the certainty that something makes sense, regardless of how it turns out" - Vaclav Havel

by Czech Micah on Dec 13, 2005 3:08 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Bradley's contract
This was batted around inconclusively a few weeks ago. What is Bradley getting paid and when is he eligible for free agency?

by SA on Dec 13, 2005 3:09 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Money
Bradley is arbitration eligible this year. (He made 2.5 million last year, probably will make 4-5 next year.) I believe he is a free agent in 2008. (I'm not 100 percent sure there, it could be 2007.)

by regfairfield on Dec 13, 2005 3:15 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Looks like one year...
http://www.mlb4u.com/0607FA.html

This site has bradley's contract expiring after the 2006 season. Don't know how reliable it is, though.

by mattcschmidt on Dec 13, 2005 3:20 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yes
He's on a year-by-year basis, since nobody ever locked him up with an arb-avoiding multi-year contract. Still, he's under our control for the next TWO years. Meaning, he can only be a free agent after the 2007 season, unless we non-tender him next year. So, while he is ours for 2 years, it's not a guaranteed contract. Is it any wonder Billy loves these pre-FA players?

by OaktownTribesman on Dec 13, 2005 3:50 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

He came up in the second half of 2000
He officially has 5 years as a major leaguer (though 2001 he didn't spend the whole season up). So his walk year is either 2006 or 2007. Either way he's eligible for arbitration right now.

by OaklandSi on Dec 13, 2005 3:21 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

this is a fine trade
Hopefully some of the East Bay mellow vibes work on Bradley, who for all his faults is as tough of a player (with as much of a desire to win) as Kendall.  Our outfield is gonna be sick, best in the bigs... reminder to fans: do NOT throw stuff at Bradley in right field!

I like Perez too, we got a good position player AND a solid utility infielder for a top minor league prospect as yet unproven at the major league level.  

If we can add (a healthy) Thomas to this mix we could be monstrous when you take into account the surplus of quality pitching we are featuring.

Somehow my signature seems a little more possible today...

1972...1973...1974...1989...2006

by emperor nobody on Dec 13, 2005 3:10 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

don't forget Perez
The kid is still young and very much improving as a ball player.  This guy could be VERY good if the A's can find somewhere to play him.
"Macha, Howe...whatever." --salb918

by BruceBochte on Dec 13, 2005 3:12 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

wasn't perez involved with the deal for Huddy
reported by FOX.  
"What's the ugliest part of your body...some say your nose, some say your toes, but i think it's your MIND." - Mothers of Invention

by redclay22 on Dec 13, 2005 3:15 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

yea
Perez + Edwin Jackson for Huddy

That deal never made sense

Go A's -- Nebraska

by Ryan Armbrust on Dec 13, 2005 3:16 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Good thing it didn't go through, huh?
I'm pretty amazed at how quickly Jackson fell from grace.  Two years ago people were talking about him as the best pitcher in the minor leagues, and he ends up in double-a for a good chunk of 05.  Even Dan Meyer looks like a better bet now...

by Little Rickey on Dec 13, 2005 3:21 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

what does bradley's contract look like?
how many years and how much money?  This seems like an excellent trade to me because it does not appear that ethier's projected ceiling is any higher than the level that bradley is at now.  I wonder how soon ethier plays for la?  With the addition of Perez it seems that we have a serious excess of back-up infielders of whom at least one should be dealt.  I could actually see Beane flipping Perez just as easily as Ginter if there is more interest in him from other teams.  I personally have no attachment to either of these players, but think that Ginter (similarly to Melhuse) did not really get a thorough chance to show what he can do.

by Egon Brainparts on Dec 13, 2005 3:13 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I think a Frank Thomas presence is the key
If Frank Thomas is in the clubhouse, I think Bradley will be much better in Oakland than anywhere else.

Don't forget Steve Sales as a clubhouse force.  It is unfortunate to bring race into this, but Bradley has played it before, so let it be mentioned.  Therefore I think Sales and Thomas can be "black voices" that will be absorbed by Bradley as "legit".

"Don't go getting all Alexander Haig on me, either." Beane to Forst at GM winter meetings.

by Ducts on the Pawn on Dec 13, 2005 3:13 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

and wash?
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2005 3:16 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Gosh! Wash!
How did I forget about Wash!???

NOW I feel even -better- about Bradley showing up.  With Washington as a man in charge of players on the field and instruction...

I think it will work!

Give Wash a raise!

"Don't go getting all Alexander Haig on me, either." Beane to Forst at GM winter meetings.

by Ducts on the Pawn on Dec 13, 2005 3:46 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

race
just a point, not trying to dwell by any means, but it has been interesting to me the past few years to see the A's as a very white team (JayPay being the lone exception in the starting lineup that I can think of...Cruz and Charles Thomas don't count).

Anyways, I'm sure it's just coincidental, but this offseason we've done a lot to improve our diversity:
Loaiza, Bradley and Perez (and Gaudin sounds French!)

I only mention this because I couldn't have ever seen Bradley in a clubhouse where he was the sole minority (Wash excluded, and I second the fact that Wash will help Bradley feel more comfortable, as would TBH if we can sign him).

Looking forward to '06!!

"You can't get any more 'Oakland' than the Coliseum. Get any more 'Oakland' and you're in San Leandro!" -Random Drunk Bum at Game

by rungood on Dec 13, 2005 3:44 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Bradley
What does this mean for Payton?  I never realized how good he is until he came over to the A's last year?  Payton has got to play and get at bats

by eajudge on Dec 13, 2005 3:14 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Payton
plays excellent defense, but his strikeouts and OBP worry me
Go A's -- Nebraska

by Ryan Armbrust on Dec 13, 2005 3:15 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm not as worried about Payton as I am
Scutaro.

This guy has played his tail off for us, filling for two different infielders last season, and doesn't deserve this!

Maybe I'm emotional, I just saw A Player To Be  Named Later, and can't believe Scutaro has been thru so much.

(SPOILER AHEAAD!!!)

  • he doesn't get called up in the Brewers system
  • plays all of 2004 at 2nd for Oakland, still might get sent down
  • injuries to Crosby and questions about Ellis land him a spot in 2005
  • and now, Perez...
... I don't know a lot about Perez, but for a guy who played so well for us, so CLUTCH (that seemingly untrackable statistic), and it looks like he may not make the roster.

I'm asking Santa for a Scutaro jersey, shoot...

by popcornjames on Dec 13, 2005 5:00 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Scutaro/Payton
Every year they try to get rid of Scutaro and he sticks around and gets it done.  Don't fall too in love with the stats and OBP - Payton and Scutaro are both winners who come through in the clutch -

by eajudge on Dec 14, 2005 10:13 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Dont sit too close in the OF...
GameBoy is militant.
Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Dec 13, 2005 3:14 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Temper
Bradley's temper, while an issue, is a little overblown. As long as the team is winning, I guarantee he'll be happy. (Not the most ringing endorsement.)

My section sang happy birthday to him from the bleachers last year, he tipped his cap to us. So long as you can avoid the blow ups, Bradley is a fun guy to have on the team.

by regfairfield on Dec 13, 2005 3:17 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

He will be for a while...
And then he will blow up..and it will be huge.  Only a matter of time.  Wait till all the racist comments start flying..good times.
Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Dec 13, 2005 3:18 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Well...
Technically, he called Jeff Kent a racist. It's not like he was calling him a cracker-ass cracker or anything.

Either way, it doesn't matter. Having a guy who has patience, power, great defense, and is only 27 is a huge coup for the As.

by regfairfield on Dec 13, 2005 3:21 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I dont doubt his talent...
and have said its a dead setal talent wise....but there is a reaosn he is available....it's a matter of when, not if.
Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Dec 13, 2005 3:24 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Technically...
Bradley never called Kent a racist.

If that's what your referring to.

"How much room do I have to cover out here?" -- Kotsay

by Sharon on Dec 13, 2005 3:23 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

and evidently the problem according
to the Dodgers' manager was that Bradley went public  with his comments instead of keeping it in-house.

by OaklandSi on Dec 13, 2005 3:26 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yea, hes gonna get along great
with our oh so diverse clubhouse.  Haha....more important than baseball..great.  This will be interesting to say the least.

``The problem is, he doesn't know how to deal with African-American people,'' Bradley said. ``I think that's what's causing everything. It's a pattern of things that have been said -- things said off the cuff that I don't interpret as funny. It may be funny to him, but it's not funny to Milton Bradley. But I don't take offense to that because we all joke about race in here. Race is an issue with everything we do in here.

``Me being an African-American is the most important thing to me -- more important than baseball,'' said the 27-year-old center fielder, whose voice never went beyond his normal speaking level. ``White people never want to see race -- with anything. But there's race involved in baseball. That's why there's less than 9 percent African-American representation in the game. I'm one of the few African-Americans that starts here.''

Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Dec 13, 2005 3:26 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Who wouldn't get upset at Jeff Kent
The guy is basically a huge redneck!

Obviously, Bradley has a huge chip on his shoulder, but I think the A's team chemistry will be a calming influence on the powder keg that is Milton Bradley.  I predict no blowups and a revitalized Bradley attending bible study with Chavez!

"Macha, Howe...whatever." --salb918

by BruceBochte on Dec 13, 2005 3:29 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Hahaha...
Very funny stuff Bruce.  Well done.
Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Dec 13, 2005 3:30 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Not only will there be no blow-ups,
our team is so chill, we'll get Milton to play Robert Buan's Extra Innings game, "Who's the bigger redneck?" WITH Blanton, Swisher and Street.  Well, let's cross our fingers.
Nature's first green is gold...

by prana160 on Dec 13, 2005 3:37 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

unlike....
Swisher and Blanton of course. Maybe they can all listen to Toby Keith together.
What's the point of attaching a number to everything you do? If your numbers go up, you're having more fun.

by AlwaysSweatin on Dec 13, 2005 4:04 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

So you think Bradley is calling Kent a racist?
"How much room do I have to cover out here?" -- Kotsay

by Sharon on Dec 13, 2005 3:32 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Haha..of course he is...
Hes just doing it without saying it.  Bradley is a crazy man....it is a fact.

I love the deal talent wise...but for anyone to think just because he comes into the A's clubhouse that he is going to cheery and nice....Aint gonna happen.  

The dude can flat out ball though.  Flat out.

Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Dec 13, 2005 3:36 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

"He's doing it without saying it."
<sigh>

Yeah...I think I'm pretty much done with this discussion. Don't take offense. I can just tell that  this isn't worth getting into.

"How much room do I have to cover out here?" -- Kotsay

by Sharon on Dec 13, 2005 3:40 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I am having fun with the subject...
Clearly you are not..sorry.

Fine, he didnt say it directly....but that doesnt mean he didnt imply of infer it.  Not everythign has to be 100% literally said.

Sorry to upset you...wasnt my intention...as havign some fun with the discussion.  

Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Dec 13, 2005 3:43 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Racism isn't a fun subject for me.
You didn't upset me, either. I've had these types of dicsussions with others and know exactly where this can lead. Let's just say that I have better control of my emotions than Bradley.
"How much room do I have to cover out here?" -- Kotsay

by Sharon on Dec 13, 2005 3:47 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

As do I....
I would never get into a heated or in depth racial discussion on a site like this...Never.  I was more pointing out what a loose cannon Milton can be.  I was not intending for it to be a racial discussion at all.  This is a baseball site with no room for that.

I apologize if you think that was my intention.  I would hope by now on this site you would know I am not like that.  I do apologize if you thought that is where I was intending to go.

Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Dec 13, 2005 3:50 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

That's fine.
We both agree that Bradley is a loose cannon. See...we can agree about something. :)
"How much room do I have to cover out here?" -- Kotsay

by Sharon on Dec 13, 2005 3:52 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Perfect....
:-)
Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Dec 13, 2005 3:55 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

both Bradley and Kent
have bad reps, so it's not surprising that they didn't get along.

Of the two I'd rather take a chance with the younger and cheaper of the two. The A's lack of known problem types and cliques should help...let's face it, if Bradley can't get along in the A's clubhouse where can he get along?

by OaklandSi on Dec 13, 2005 3:54 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Relax Opie
Even if GameBoy has a problem, he still has trade value.  Beane knows he will get Ethier's value in return in a trade for Bradley alone.

Bring on Parker Brothers baby, we just got Milton Bradley!!

"Macha, Howe...whatever." --salb918

by BruceBochte on Dec 13, 2005 3:17 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

No way....look how low his value has gotten...
Another blowup makes him just about undealable.
Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Dec 13, 2005 3:20 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Gotta have faith in Beane
I mean 2 proven MLB talents for a prospect who has never played higher than AA.  Its a great deal even if Bradley is a bust, and he has a HUGE upside.  I like him a lot better than old man Thomas.

Colletti must have been higher than a kite when he made the deal.  Ha ha...

"Macha, Howe...whatever." --salb918

by BruceBochte on Dec 13, 2005 3:25 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I have faith...
Beane is phenomenal at what he does.

I have said 10 times it is a great deal talent wise.

Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Dec 13, 2005 3:28 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Parker Brothers
http://www.baseball-reference.com/p/parkeda01.shtml

Did he have a brother? Will he come out of retirement to supplant Julio Franco as the oldest player?

Go A's -- Nebraska

by Ryan Armbrust on Dec 13, 2005 3:20 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Ah...the Cobra is he of whom you speak
Playing parcheesi no doubt, in a retirement home in south Florida...
"Macha, Howe...whatever." --salb918

by BruceBochte on Dec 13, 2005 3:26 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

No Trade Value
If he has one more blow up he is done.  Why do you think we got him for Either only?  Because no one wants to take him.  This is his last chance.  You would think that would make him less likely to blow up, but that's the thing about crazy people, they are crazy.  If he blows up you will see this: "Bradley clears irrevokable waivers, Raiders sign to one year deal"

by homerozzieandthestraw on Dec 13, 2005 3:34 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

hahahaha....
....raiders. nice.
"You can't get any more 'Oakland' than the Coliseum. Get any more 'Oakland' and you're in San Leandro!" -Random Drunk Bum at Game

by rungood on Dec 13, 2005 3:47 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Colletti must have been smoking something
He gave up TWO proven MLB players for a AA prospect?  That is just nuts.  Crazy.  Makes me think that the A's must have included someone else in the deal.  If  not this is grand larceny of the first order by Beane the maestro.
"Macha, Howe...whatever." --salb918

by BruceBochte on Dec 13, 2005 3:15 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

it should be illegal
now watch bill plaschke justify it as a great move by the dodgers...
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2005 3:18 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Ha ha...Funny
Plaschke, why didn't McCourt just make him the GM?
"Macha, Howe...whatever." --salb918

by BruceBochte on Dec 13, 2005 3:23 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I love the deal
Awesome - Kept hearing about the Cubs, Pirates, et al. So happy - love that we brought in a five tool player, and I think that the A's clunhouse is the perfect fit to bring out MB's potential. Now, if they can only lock up Thomas...A's win the whole damn thing...

by SD Erik on Dec 13, 2005 3:19 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Don't see how we get Big Hurt now
With Bradley in RF, Kotsay in CF, and Payton in LF. Swisher will move to 1B and Johnson will be DH.

I suppose Johnson and or Swisher could platoon with Thomas, or Bradley/Payton will platoon in OF, but I don't think theres enough playing time for everyone to be happy. Especially since everyone except for Swisher and Johnson are expecting to be starters since they are all vets.

Maybe Johnson and Swisher will switch between 1B with Thomas full time DH, but I doubt it. Obviously Kotsay and Bradley will start in OF, and maybe Payton and Swisher will split time, but it wont be a fun pill to swallow if Thomas signs on.

I also kinda miss not having Ethier, but I suppose Beane did what he thought was best. He acquired legitimate MLB talent for a prospect at the possible height of his market value. Remember, Graham Koonce was once thought to be a spectacular talent one year that every team sought after, and we kept him, and we've never heard of him since and now we couldnt get a bag of peanuts for him.

by InBeaneiTrust on Dec 13, 2005 3:20 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Koonce has done nothing
he can't even make the MLB roster for the Pirates...

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/K/graham-koonce.shtml

Go A's -- Nebraska

by Ryan Armbrust on Dec 13, 2005 3:25 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

His MLB line: 8 ABs, 1 2B, 6 Ks, 0 BB, .125
He's as washed up as a pair of late 80s jeans!
"Macha, Howe...whatever." --salb918

by BruceBochte on Dec 13, 2005 3:33 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You bastard
sincerely, Graham Koonce

by rubin sierra on Dec 13, 2005 6:52 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Think about it...
It's Payton, or Thomas.  WIth Bradley the outfield is now solidified as Swish/Kotsay/and the gamer.  DJ will man first with big Frank as the DH.  If we don't sign Thomas, we will have to move Swish to first base and absorb a good number of at bats from the perfect fourth outfielder known as Jay ".316 obp" Payton.  Even a hobbled Thomas would be a massive upgrade over Payton.  

by Little Rickey on Dec 13, 2005 3:25 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

There will be plenty of playing time
Signing Thomas doesn't limit time for anyone else - in fact it is great insurance as we have guys that not only NEED rest on a regular basis, but are susceptible to injury. When Thomas is DH, Johnson plays first, sometimes spelling Thomas - Johnson will be spelled by Swisher sometimes who will asp spend time in RF as MB spells Kotsay. Payton and Kielty platoon in left field, if both are still on the team. This way everyone plays 4-5 days a week, with a real bat on the bench for some late-inning threats. And this is only if no one gets injured, which we know is highly unlikely.
I hope that we sign Thomas, and that he guides the A's through April/May with a good record, then he can go down for a while (which I expect), as the A's go through their hot summer, and then return for the Spetember/October stretch drive to the World Series....

by SD Erik on Dec 13, 2005 4:34 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

There is NO WAY, I repeat NO WAY...
that Beane pays $4M for a platoon player, IF Payton stays you can BE SURE that he will star in LF....

by Olijerez77 on Dec 13, 2005 5:04 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

There is room
Even if you think Payton deserves the starting job in OF--which he doesn't-- there's still 5 spots for 6 players. That's a fine amount, especially when you consider the need to rest Thomas and to a lesser extent, Kotsay

by H3liCat on Dec 13, 2005 4:36 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Who cares about Jay Payton????
I can't be the only one that just doesn't think that this guys really that good.  Certainly not good enough that the A's need to worry about hurting his feelings by running better players out there everyday.  The guy had a decent second half, after whining his way out of Boston.  As long as we can get our young guys, like Swish and DJ in the lineup, and then just play the match-ups with the other guys, like Kielty and Payton, things will be fine.  I still think the A's need to add Big Frank, though.  Bradley, being a switch hitter does not solve our problem of not having a middle of the order, right handed bat.

by RayRay59 on Dec 13, 2005 4:37 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree
Too much love for Payton on here.  Look at his stats in August and September.  Awful!  He's a bit player, not an everyday starter.  With Bradley's past injury issues and potentially Thomas on the roster, there will be plenty of opportunities for him to shine in that role.  I just hope he's happy with it.

by boilerdan on Dec 14, 2005 10:44 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Swisher/Johnson
Swisher is going to have to get alot better to take playing time away from Payton or Johnson.  Bradley has a shot a being an Allstar if he stays centered and doesn't become a distraction.  Swisher strikes out too much.  

by eajudge on Dec 13, 2005 3:28 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

nothing would surprise me
including Swish being the one that gets traded

by OaklandSi on Dec 13, 2005 3:30 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

swisher vs payton
swisher was a rookie
payton has a terrible OBP
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2005 3:34 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yes!
As a rookie, Swisher put up a better OPS than Payton!  

by boilerdan on Dec 14, 2005 10:47 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Gotta think the Yankees are the on the phone...
we have 3 CFs and they have none.

Sell em Payton for the cash to sign Big Hurt.

by jefeboy on Dec 13, 2005 3:33 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

this'd be amazing!
"You can't get any more 'Oakland' than the Coliseum. Get any more 'Oakland' and you're in San Leandro!" -Random Drunk Bum at Game

by rungood on Dec 13, 2005 3:49 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

That would be hot, dude.
"Baseball fans are junkies, and their heroin is the statistic." -Robert S. Wieder

by Kyli on Dec 13, 2005 3:53 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Looking at Bradley's historical stats
It's surprising he's only played one full season in the bigs.  Even though it seems like he's been around for awhile, he's so young.

If he stays healthy, I expect a very high ceiling.

"I'm so green and gold that I hang on every pitch, not just every game." - Lew Wolff

by BleacherDrummer on Dec 13, 2005 3:37 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Mychael Urban on the Bradley trade (audio)
winter meetings: ethier and saarloos for bradley
now: ethier for bradley and perez

and beane wins again...

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2005 3:42 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

i thought...
i thought it was saarloos & ethier for bradley PLUS a prospect. like billingsley or guzman.

by vishal on Dec 13, 2005 4:01 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

i don't remember
but in the mlb radio interview, urban says it was ethier and saarloos for bradley.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2005 4:27 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

time will tell.
hmmm.
http://www.kendallkountdown.blogspot.com - A's blog and countdown till Kendalls 1st HR

by painey on Dec 13, 2005 3:39 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Who here belives
The A's never cause on field problems like other teams, that's what other people tell me about the 'quietest team in basbeall', well that will be tested this year.
The tragedy of life is not that it ends so soon, but that we wait so long to begin it.-W. M. Lewis

by doublehustle22 on Dec 13, 2005 3:39 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Doesn't anyone think . . .
that Kielty might be non-tendered?

by EddieVegas_NRAF on Dec 13, 2005 3:51 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I predict that....
Antonio Perez gets his first MLB
home run before Jason Kendall hits one out.  
Jim Essian: The only Oakland Athletic to hit an Inside the Park Grand Slam.

by OaktownRajah on Dec 13, 2005 3:55 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Perez hit 3 last year
hollowspec: What's your favorite beer? Dan Johnson: Free.

by FireballerHARDEN on Dec 13, 2005 3:59 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Ha! I was right!
Jim Essian: The only Oakland Athletic to hit an Inside the Park Grand Slam.

by OaktownRajah on Dec 13, 2005 4:03 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You're psychic
How do you do it.

by OaktownTribesman on Dec 13, 2005 4:06 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Interesting.
I just read a little bit from the A's board on the official website. A lot of people there are upset about the trade, while the general reaction on here is favorable. I find that interesting. As for me, I'm still surprised Beane got Bradley and Perez for only Ethier, and not Saarloos. We'll see how this pans out, but right now I think it's looking good.
"A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings." -Earl Wilson

by whiteshoes40 on Dec 13, 2005 3:59 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

that would be beacause
the average IQ on here is about 4x that on the a's mlb board.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2005 4:05 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

yes, yes it would
it's somewhere in the 16-22 range.  
i don't know how they even turn on their computers...
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2005 4:12 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I am not
I think it is a direct fall out of the Dodgers new GM and their organizational view that the "Bad charactors" must go.  When you take that view make it public, you tend to not get full value.  

I am sure Beane had a lot of input from Depodesta on this one.

ogallalabob

by ogallalabob on Dec 13, 2005 4:10 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

YEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAHHHH!!!
as lil jon would say
"Baseball is like church, many attend, few understand" - Leo Durocher

by gWiLiKeRzZz on Dec 13, 2005 4:00 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

OOOOOOOOKKKKKKKKK
"You can't get any more 'Oakland' than the Coliseum. Get any more 'Oakland' and you're in San Leandro!" -Random Drunk Bum at Game

by rungood on Dec 13, 2005 4:29 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

We've got a lot of tradeable pieces
Zito (unfortunately)
Sarloos
Kennedy
Kielty
Payton
Ginter
Scutaro
Maybe Swish instead of Payton
Perez
Juan Cruz
etc.

Beane is stockpiling players.  We've got pretty good depth, something a small market team isn't supposed to have.  What are the chance that Beane can fleece the Pirates and get Jason Bay.  Payton, Kennedy, Sarloos for him.  Hell, give them Macha too.  

by RunRickeyRun on Dec 13, 2005 4:01 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Beane would never do it..
... who would be his whipping boy... er... manager, then?
That makes sense. That's why they'll never do it. - Bill King

by alleahna on Dec 13, 2005 5:21 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

TRADE MACHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"...It might have been a great year with a real DH."

by A s Eh on Dec 13, 2005 9:39 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Spoke to a coupel big Dodger fans..
I live in LA so talked to a couple huge fans..They all seem really upset about losing Perez rather than Bradley
Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Dec 13, 2005 4:03 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

they're right
that's a big coup.  

once again...
winter meetings: ethier and saarloos for bradley
now: ethier for bradley and perez

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2005 4:06 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

yeah man
Perez, to me, is a huge pickup.  and NO MORE KEITH GINTER!

by SeanR on Dec 13, 2005 5:59 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

haha
Just got an email from the A's with the subject line:  A's Trade for Big Bat

 

Bill Stoneman is about to be offered three seasons of a right-handed version of Vladimir Guerrero - Rev Halofan

by pickinmachine on Dec 13, 2005 4:03 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

what's so funny
the man can hit
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2005 4:06 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

just the use of Big Bat
in caps like that.  Its a term been thrown around here a lot, just found it amusing.  I think Thomas is the "Big Bat" but I am very pleased with this deal.
Bill Stoneman is about to be offered three seasons of a right-handed version of Vladimir Guerrero - Rev Halofan

by pickinmachine on Dec 13, 2005 4:09 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

great counterargument
are you a big poster on the a's mlb board?
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2005 4:13 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Wow, dude.
Doesn't seem like Rangla deserves a catty response like that.
"Baseball fans are junkies, and their heroin is the statistic." -Robert S. Wieder

by Kyli on Dec 13, 2005 4:16 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

what is there to say
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2005 4:19 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

further thoughts
thank you for your request for me to elaborate.

I think Bradley has a lot of talent but don't see him as a major upgrade to what we have when the complete package (including whatever has followed him throughout his career that would lead him to get into trouble) is considered.  I have never seen Ethier but have heard a lot about him.  I don't like the idea of trading the future for what does not yet appear to be a major upgrade in an area.  I think the trade gives us some depth in both the infield and the outfield but I'm not sure that that is worth the price we paid, particularly considering how much the Dodgers were looking to unload him.

To me, this trade reminds me of when the Cubs picked up a veteran arm in Ernie Broglio for a kid who had potential but hadn't panned out (Lou Brock).  Sure, there are good trades on both sides where prospects are traded for proven players.  My preference is to generally go with a hot prospect unless the veteran provides a major upgrade to the position or team and, in this case, I don't think the threshold has been met.

I appreciate your interest in me.  I'm happy to share.  I'm 40 years old and became an A's fan, officially, in 1970.  My dad grew up in Philadelphia and has been an A's fan all of his life.  His favorites were Shantz, Valo, Zernial and Fain.  My first favorites were Campy, Rudi and Catfish.  One of my fondest childhood memories was getting to stay up past my bedtime to watch the '72 World Series with my dad.  I'm not sure how many times I have posted and am sure it probably hasn't been as many times as you, as I've seen your name on the board before.  I have been following the board for about a year now -- probably posting 100 times or so.  

I would not want to think that I offended you in some way by sharing that I would have rather had Ethier.  I think our GM is pretty incredible and trust that he has a master plan.  Still, I have my opinions as well and would have preferred to stay with the kid.  To illustrate, say the difference between Barton and Ethier would relate to the difference between Bradley and a very good pitcher (with a similar attitude...issue) -- I wouldn't advocate making that trade either for the same two reasons -- 1) I would rather not mortgage the future and 2) given our team, while there will be an upgrade, it wouldn't be enough to justify the move in my opinion.

Glad you invited the elaboration.

by Rangla on Dec 13, 2005 5:38 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

thanks for elaborating
it's hard to work with just "i'd rather have ethier than bradley/perez."  
even "ethier is better than bradley" would be something, whereas one could say "i'd rather have greg ostertag than lebron james" and no one can really respond as the person just stating a personal preference.

i think you have valid points.
beane has always been willing to trade prospects to insure the current team has a decent shot at the playoffs.
this year, one could go either way: trade zito, keep ethier, don't sign thomas, or vice versa.  i'd be fine with either, really.

perhaps beane was impressed by what he saw last year and thinks this team can really go places if it was deeper and could absorb the inevitable injuries.
perhaps he doesn't see the competition (yanks, angels, red sox) doing much to improve and considers 2006 to be a unique opportunity.
perhaps beane doesn't think he's doing much to harm the a's chances of success from 2007-2010 with this trade.
perhaps the a's don't really believe in ethier and see his recent success as a good opportunity to dump him while his value is at close to barton levels.

we'll know in a few years if beane made the right move or not...

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2005 5:51 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

getting to know you
xbhaskarx, I have taken your comments as a genuine inquiry and have responded within this string.  Now, would you kindly return the favor -- can you share a little about yourself and how you have become an A's fan?  I would appreciate learning more about you.

by Rangla on Dec 13, 2005 5:46 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

i responded to the baseball stuff above
as far as getting to know one another: this ain't a date.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2005 5:52 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Dude
What if "Rangla" is some hot MILF?

by OaktownTribesman on Dec 13, 2005 6:15 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

damn, i blew it...
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2005 6:41 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

rangla
i guess bhaskar unwittingly gave you a glimpse of the kind of person he is.  He is very smart, but he's an even bigger smart-ass (he's studying to be a lawyer... figures, doesn't it).  He's often very rude to people he thinks he's smarter than (that would be: everybody but Billy Beane).  I think a lot of the (mostly younger than us- I became an A's fan in '72, too) people who post here feel that they can be rude because of the anonymity they "enjoy" on the web.  Plus, a lot of the fans here have their heads so far up Billy Beane's butt I'm surprised they can connect to the internet.

Like you, my knee jerk reaction to this trade was not positive.  I don't like the idea of a cancerous attitude in the clubhouse (and I hate losing Ethier).  I think Beane sees it as a gamble that could pay off REALLY big this year (and maybe Bradley's not as bad as his rep).  

Here's hoping Bradley can play for Macha.

by Brian in 317 on Dec 14, 2005 6:53 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

interesting...
how did i "unwittingly" do anything?  and if so, how could i possibly be any more straightforward?

he made no argument, i pointed that out.  he responded with an actual argument, i discussed it with him.  

my initial comment had nothing to do with who is smarter than who.  rangla could be a genius for all i know, but that doesn't excuse his lazy and pointless comment.

once he elaborated, i thought my response to his elaboration was pretty respectful, and i even thanked him for elaborating.  all that long before you got involved and called me a smart-ass.  

some people are rude, not all of us can be class acts who accuse "mostly younger" a's fans of being rude and having "their heads...up Billy Beane's butt."

way to generalize there.  i could make some generalizations as well, but i'll be nice unlike you.

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 14, 2005 11:34 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

cool...
thanks for being nice to me.

Please don't get me wrong, though, I didn't accuse all the younger fans of being rude, just you.  Actually, like other members of my generation, I think the kids are alright. I just think Rangla didn't deserve such glib treatment, and didn't want him to have his feelings hurt (I'm not worried about yours... your shit's too hot to have your feelings hurt- and I do mean that in a good way).

Seriously, though, I wasn't trying to piss you off or anything, Bhaskar...  I was just telling it the way I see it.  I know I'm a smart ass, and I know you know you are too!  I'm actually very impressed by your baseball knowledge, just not as much by the antagonistic quality I sense in many of your posts.

by Brian in 317 on Dec 14, 2005 12:24 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

well
"I didn't accuse all the younger fans of being rude, just you."

that is NOT the case.  yes, you didn't accuse "all" the younger fans of being rude, just "a lot" of them.
boy, it's a good thing we have all this in writing if you can't even remember something you wrote EARLIER TODAY:

"I think a lot of the (mostly younger than us- I became an A's fan in '72, too) people who post here feel that they can be rude because of the anonymity they "enjoy" on the web.  Plus, a lot of the fans here have their heads so far up Billy Beane's butt I'm surprised they can connect to the internet."

you

  1. generalized about young a's fans, grouping them together based on age (sorry we can't all have been born in the 60s or whenever)
  2. said many were rude
  3. implied this is because they are cowardly (behavior due to the anonymity of the web)
  4. managed to bash those who actually understand what beane is doing in the process
but really, be sure to let us know if anyone is being rude or antagonistic!
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 14, 2005 12:48 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

if bb were to trade payton to yanks
who should we get back? payton to the yanks makes some sense cuz of the payton/red sox bad blood.
Bill King

Governator El-Slime

by greendatitiz on Dec 13, 2005 4:11 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Not trying to rehash old arguments
But would you rather have Jose Guillen or Milton Bradley?

Both have off the field histories.  I always thought Guillen was money on the field too, though he is more of a SLG guy over OBP.

"I'm so green and gold that I hang on every pitch, not just every game." - Lew Wolff

by BleacherDrummer on Dec 13, 2005 4:13 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Guillen
hollowspec: What's your favorite beer? Dan Johnson: Free.

by FireballerHARDEN on Dec 13, 2005 5:08 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

tossup
My god, Guillen's arm was a thing of beauty.

... of course, thinking about Guillen's arm always makes me think of Ramon's indifference to blocking the plate ...

@('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2005 5:23 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

yeah, I was there
what a waste of a great throw

by OaklandSi on Dec 13, 2005 5:27 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Bradley...
and by a lot.
Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Dec 13, 2005 5:36 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Guillen.
Man. Postseason performance to warm my heart, and that arm... mmm...
"Baseball fans are junkies, and their heroin is the statistic." -Robert S. Wieder

by Kyli on Dec 13, 2005 6:00 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

anger management
I have said this before, but I have no issues with Milt as a player and clubhouse presence. He's a hot head. Big deal, let's see if he can fit in.

But, the whole issue of domestic violence against his pregnant wife weighs heavy on me. I would like to think that either (1) it was false/overblown or (2) that he's getting some serious counseling about that. Otherwise, I'm still having a lot of trouble pulling for this guy.

by Apricot on Dec 13, 2005 4:14 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I hear you
From what I've read it appears that while police were called three times to the Bradley residence he was neither arrested nor charged. So it's difficult to say exactly what happened.

by OaklandSi on Dec 13, 2005 4:18 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Well, idk about the "wife choking"...
If you're going by the 911 tapes, she was the one coming after him. He called the cops after having a bunch of things thrown at him.

by SuperDingus on Dec 13, 2005 4:18 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I agree
I heard the 911 tapes and he seemed pretty shaken up.  You could here his wife throwing things in the background.  The man will always take the brunt of the blame in this situation, unles he's married to Tawny Kitaen.

by RunRickeyRun on Dec 13, 2005 4:21 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Somewhere,
Chuck Finley's crying right now.
How about a three way? You, me and some of this pork.-Donny Baker

by gatling on Dec 13, 2005 8:26 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

we don't know what happened
none of us know all the facts.
we have a court system to deal with that sort of thing.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2005 4:21 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

That's what really bothers me about him.
I mean, there's been so much stuff said about it that it's impossible to discern the truth, but it makes me beyond uneasy about him. I really hope that it's all been completely blown out of proportion and there's not a grain of truth in it anymore because... man. That's the one thing that will absolutely turn me against any player on any team.
"Baseball fans are junkies, and their heroin is the statistic." -Robert S. Wieder

by Kyli on Dec 13, 2005 4:23 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

he had counseling
From the AP story
"He had anger management counseling during the [2004] offseason"

With the Kent thing, I think he shouldn't have said what he said to the press, but it's not like he was out of control.

by TheCatch on Dec 13, 2005 4:40 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The name on the front, 'cotty.
Bradley has obviously had some off-field issues that make it hard to root for him.  I don't like wife-beaters, and neither do you, and neither does any one.  But I can absolutely guarantee that you - and me, and every sports fan - has actively rooted for a player while his unsavory private life is ignored, unknown, or unreported.  Chances are, we have rooted for drug users, wife beaters, and racists without ever knowing about it.  Hell, the athletes we root for today are usually the same jerks who tormented us - me - in junior high and high school.  The same frat boy mentality I rejected when I was in college.

So we either don't let this bother us, or be too paranoid to root for any athletes.  It stinks, but a choice we make as sports fans.

Copernicus felt the same way about the geocentric crew.

by salb918 on Dec 13, 2005 4:51 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

not that simple
I pull for the A's because they are the local team and represent a movement bringing thought and creativity into baseball.

But I think it is hard to avoid engaging personally with the bits you think you know about their personalities and lives. And if there is something very glaring (like Ray Lewis or Canseco/McGwire/Giambi) I think it's very hard to just ignore what you know. I am willing to assume players are passably savory until actual evidence comes out.

And honestly, since I graduated high school, I haven't really adored any sports players in the way I did when I was young. But I don't need to adore a player now; I'll settle for not being disturbed by the thought of them.

by Apricot on Dec 13, 2005 5:17 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

thought and creativity in baseball
that thought and creativity is based on the idea of acquiring players who are undervalued by the rest of baseball, for whatever reason.  

who could possibly be MORE undervalued than a "cancer" like bradley?

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2005 5:25 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

yeah
baseball-wise, it's an incredible trade. I have not much problem with players who are 'bad chemistry' people, and exploiting the overvaluing of 'chemistry'.

But there are limits, and serious off-field stuff does interfere with my ability to pull for a player.  I'm also willing to give people the benefit of the doubt if they recognize they have a problem and are working to deal with it.

by Apricot on Dec 13, 2005 5:45 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Hm
I suppose that means I have to keep going to those Punsters Anonymous meetings, eh?
@('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2005 6:23 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

You're right.
It's not that simple, but my real life is complicated enough.  There are some guys I like to root for because they seem like nice guys: Chipper Jones, Mark Kotsay.  And I like to root against other guys because they seem like jerks: AJ Pierzynski, Roger Clemens.

But which of the good guys will turn into the next Kirby Puckett?  I don't want to have my heart broken any more than it already is every October.

Copernicus felt the same way about the geocentric crew.

by salb918 on Dec 13, 2005 5:44 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

<passes the Paxil>
These should get you through next season.

But seriously, I can't enjoy baseball fully without caring about the players, however superficially.  Knowing the whole backstory of Hatty and K-Rod and THEN to watch Hatty the misfit toy hit the game-winner last spring made it so special. Without that, for me it's just another jock with a bat hitting a ball. It makes the lows lower, but the highs way higher, and if you can let go of the lows and hold on to the highs, it makes it all worthwhile.

by Apricot on Dec 13, 2005 5:50 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

<sniff>
Thanks.  You have a point regarding the high highs and the low lows.  And knowing Hatte's story as a ballplayer makes rooting him for that much special.    And I do take baseball history into context, at least subconsciously, so that rooting for Griffey to make a comeback is fun or wishing Roger Clemens would get beaned makes sense.

But I don't know what these guys do when they go home.  It's that part of the ballplayer I don't know if I can root for or against.  And everybody's different, so I hope you find a way to pull for Bradley in the end.  I'll help if I can: redemption is the best backstory of them all.

Copernicus felt the same way about the geocentric crew.

by salb918 on Dec 13, 2005 5:58 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'll have a beer and a lithium
I read this link on the domestic violence story

http://cbs.sportsline.com/mlb/story/8787339/rss

and when I read it, I just feel sorry for both the wife and the husband.  Sorry for her for obvious reasons, and alarmed for her baby.  And sorry for him because he's so unhappy/angry all the time and clearly there's not enough paxil or prozac in the world to make him better.

I think you have the right idea, sal--root for this guy, and root for him as an underdog--as a guy trying to overcome some serious issues.  What I think Apricot's worried about (legitimately) is that professional baseball players are so constantly surrounded by people telling them they're perfect, they don't have flaws--the better they play, the more they can get away with.  Blech ... too complicated!  Real life is too complicated.

by rubin sierra on Dec 13, 2005 7:35 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm sorry if I'm not convinced he's
a "wife beater" after reading that. The fact that it amounted to him putting his arm across her throat is disturbing and frankly, pathetic. However, they both seem to be at fault...

by SuperDingus on Dec 13, 2005 8:07 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Cross another one off your list
Chipper Jones, lyin' cheatin' husband.
@('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2005 6:24 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

See, there you go.
Copernicus felt the same way about the geocentric crew.

by salb918 on Dec 13, 2005 6:35 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

what about...
Derek Lowe and "Jeff"?
Go A's -- Nebraska

by Ryan Armbrust on Dec 13, 2005 8:12 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

however it started, and whatever happened during,
bradley still should have left the house/situation before he was pushed to elevating the struggle to a physical level.

i'm going to have a hard time rooting for the guy.

"Baseball is 90% mental - the other half is physical." - Yogi Berra

by rockit on Dec 13, 2005 5:05 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

While there's no excuse for domestic violence
There also doesn't appear to be a clear suggestion that Bradley was the aggressor in this case. This troubles me too, though, especially since the incidents with his wife came after his anger management counseling of the previous offseason.

I'm inclined to give him one last chance in my own mind.  But not only will another blowup be the last straw for my opinion of MB, I also agree with OTPower that it will decimate any and all value he gives the A's in trade value.

He's surely not on a Steve Howe/Art Schleister level yet, but he's running out of chances fast.

Beat the Angles (they're obtuse!)

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Dec 13, 2005 7:00 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Front Page Poll
I have a real issue with the front page poll. I think there should be a third option.

Option C) I am not so sure how I feel about it cause I don't think the other shoe has dropped yet.

Or

Option D) I want to wait and see before I decide if I like it or not.

Just a thought.

"Happy Holiday's Billy Beane!" - Mychael Urban

by BobbyCrosbysGirl on Dec 13, 2005 4:17 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Don't be wishy washy...make a choice
I'm just kidding.  

It's funny, every year right around my birthday, Billy seems to do something.  A couple years ago it was Durazo, last year it was the Hudson and Mulder deals and now, Milton Bradley.  Woo hoo!

by Tyler Bleszinski on Dec 13, 2005 4:22 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

HAHA!
I like this one!
"Happy Holiday's Billy Beane!" - Mychael Urban

by BobbyCrosbysGirl on Dec 13, 2005 4:48 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't know what to think
There usually seems to be an A's curse associated with my birthday (perhaps not surprising given that I was born on a Friday)...Foulke signing with the Red Sox, Giambi with the stanks.  Bradley is one of my least favorite players and Andre Ethier one of my most favorite (he's a real nice kid -- I met him and got to chat with him a number of times).

But...at least this year the event is brought about by Billy rather than being perpetrated on the team by a departing player.  So I will have faith in Beane and feverishly hope the curse is broken!

by sarajune13 on Dec 13, 2005 4:22 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

"going for it all in 2006"
Listen to Urban's 2nd piece on MLB.com.
See link above...
"sometimes I can't tell the difference between baseball and magic..." SALB918

by LongTimeFan on Dec 13, 2005 4:24 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Perez
This guy keeps coming up whenever LA and Oakland talk trade, I guess Beane must really like him.

As for Bradley... eh. Don't get me wrong, any trade that makes Payton the 4th OFer is a good trade, but the production everyone is hoping for has never been there.

He has the talent but not the numbers. I hope that changes.

I don't hate, I just respond aggressively to stupidity

by grover on Dec 13, 2005 4:27 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

it's easy to see why
he can play 2b, ss, and 3b, and has a great OBP.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2005 4:28 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Hopefully Perez will improve on D, under Wash
The big knock on him right now is his glove.

He had 9 errors last year in 73 games at 2nd/3rd/SS.

Ellis had 6 errors in 122 games.

"I'm so green and gold that I hang on every pitch, not just every game." - Lew Wolff

by BleacherDrummer on Dec 13, 2005 4:51 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Well,
it could be.  If it was actually made out of stone, whereas Ginter just "looked" like it was stone.
How about a three way? You, me and some of this pork.-Donny Baker

by gatling on Dec 13, 2005 8:30 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yankees have no trade bait
Wang? He's good, but somewhat of an injury risk, and our pitching doesn't need much upgrading. Cano? No thanks.

Only in my dreams do we go after Derrek Lee. The Cubs need OF help, and Dusty Baker was said to have admired Bradley, but I'd try to keep him and get rid of Payton first. Maybe (with '05 VORP totals):

Payton (8.5) + Zito (41.8) + DJ (21.2) [+ b-level prospect, if necessary...Watson?] = Lee (106 - Yes, he led all MLB)

Then sign Thomas with the money saved from Payton (Zito and Lee basically cancel each other out for '06). Our outfield would stay excellent, our rotation would still be good, Lee would be a good defensive upgrade from Johnson, and our line-up could be:

Ellis
Bradley
Chavez
Thomas
Lee
Crosby
Kotsay
Swisher
Kendall

Even if Lee regresses to his career norms, he's still a very good player (and would still likely be at least equal in VORP, though I don't know his previous years' totals). His splits are even (ballpark and pitcher), and in a contract year, he could be motivated to play harder than ever. Plus, I think the dominant personalities of Thomas and Lee would help reign Bradley in and keep him in line. Depends on Jim Hendry, though.

username

by spal on Dec 13, 2005 4:33 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I don't think Beane would do that...
Derrek Lee is a free agent after this year, and he basically has no hope of being able to sign him to an affordable extension.

by SuperDingus on Dec 13, 2005 5:01 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh, and Derrek Lee may be black
but he's not a dominant personality by any means. He's a very quiet, relaxed and easygoing guy from what I've seen, who happens to have a great work ethic.

by SuperDingus on Dec 13, 2005 5:03 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

uh...
so he's one of the "good blacks?"

YIKES!

by kvn on Dec 13, 2005 6:08 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Heh, I didn't mean anything like that.
It's just that people are advocating trying to find black players to try to soothe Bradley, or make him think better of the club.

by SuperDingus on Dec 13, 2005 6:40 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I wasn't calling anyone out
I just noticed the awkward turn the discussion had taken, and of course diffused it with humor. I was a middle child.

by kvn on Dec 13, 2005 6:47 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

2 things
  1. You're right about signing Lee. I hadn't thought of his playing here beyond this year. I'd still do it, then, if it didn't mean giving up DJ, since Zito may be gone after this year, as well, and Payton's expendable regardless.
  2. I hadn't meant to imply that Bradley would behave better only with more black players on the team, though from his previous comments, one can only imagine if that might be true. However, I should have thrown Kotsay and Kendall in there, too. And "dominant" doesn't have to mean "loud", per se, but I admit I don't have much knowledge of Lee as a person. However, I do think that his obvious skill is something that Bradley would respect.
username

by spal on Dec 13, 2005 6:36 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Are you kidding me?
This trade is an absolute fleecing.  Two known quantities for a prospect but an older one at that?  Wow.  I can understand the Dodgers wanting to get rid of Bradley, but they throw in a great utility infielder as well for Ethier?  Not to mention that if Bradley stays healthy, he'd be our best outfielder in terms of production right now, while Ethier.  This team will be DEEP.

by baseb3383 on Dec 13, 2005 4:34 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

That's exactly how I see it
It's amazing how desperation can totally lower a player's value.
"Damn kids" -Ron Flores

by secret ASian man on Dec 13, 2005 4:39 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

This is a brilliant trade...
... if Bradley stays healthy and produces in 2006. I'm not even worried about homers - I want someone getting on base and moving players over. I'm tired of the left on base issues we've consistently had.

The minute 'GameBoy' goes out on a three month DL or completely implodes in a fiery ball of vituperation, folks will be saying 'I told you so' and then? Not so brilliant with the trade, there.

Perez? Good move for IF depth and utility. All in all I'll reserve my enthusiasm for this trade until spring training, at the earliest. ;-)

That makes sense. That's why they'll never do it. - Bill King

by alleahna on Dec 13, 2005 5:40 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

And what's with the new FP poll?
The Milton trade: Love it or Hate it?

How about some middle ground? Like "It's a nice deal that will help the club, but it's not a slam dunk that Bradley lives up to his potential and pushes the A's to the Promised Land."

I'd like that option, please.

I don't hate, I just respond aggressively to stupidity

by grover on Dec 13, 2005 4:35 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I don't like it
But I'm apparently not a Baseball Person.

I also think it's naive to believe that the A's clubhouse environment can "positively affect even the most serious misanthrope..."  :\

Won't be boo-ing, but won't be clapping, either.

"Don't go getting all Alexander Haig on me," Beane told Forst.

by Poppy on Dec 13, 2005 4:37 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Me neither...
What's all the hype about?  

The guy has never hit 20 home runs or driven in more than 70 runs.  Who cares if he's a jerk?  Can he actually play a full season?

by Mission1929 on Dec 13, 2005 5:52 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Antonio Perez in for Ellis
I'm not talking about this year, but I think if Ellis has another good year, we probably won't be able to afford him.  Perez would slide right in.  I like the trade a lot.

by RunRickeyRun on Dec 13, 2005 4:38 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Don't let this distract you!!!!
Remember to vote for AN on every computer you have access to!!!!!
Check out some awesome music ...

by devo on Dec 13, 2005 4:44 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

yes
thanks devo, i was going to say so myself.

Current update:
5469-5433, B-G Sky is leading but we're closing in and are 2 hours behind them.

C'Mon AN!!!

"You can't get any more 'Oakland' than the Coliseum. Get any more 'Oakland' and you're in San Leandro!" -Random Drunk Bum at Game

by rungood on Dec 13, 2005 5:05 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

that page
will not let me vote

I just see a big grey box at the top of the screen; this has been going on for a few days now; some damn Fighting Irish bastard is blocking my access somehow!

by rubin sierra on Dec 13, 2005 7:40 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Could Bradley keep an AN membership?
"All members are expected to adhere to our community standards. Treat everyone with respect or face expulsion."

Over/under on number of days he would last as a member?

But still a great trade for BB.

by soxFan on Dec 13, 2005 4:46 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I'll take the over ...
... and I'll take the under on the duration of Kent's membership.

"Yeah, Blez, I, uh, accidentally hit 'send' when I fell off my truck."

@('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2005 4:50 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Maybe there should be a small caveat:
..."All members are expected to adhere to our community standards. Treat everyone with respect or face expulsion."... unless you hit home runs for the Oakland Athletics...Then, we don't care.

by eamb on Dec 13, 2005 4:54 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

KNBR SUCKS
my god. a big trade today for the team across the bay, and all they can talk about is how the frickin' 49'ers could manage to get the number 1 draft pick?

what BS!

Bill King

Governator El-Slime

by greendatitiz on Dec 13, 2005 4:50 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

did any one see
what kotsay and crosby said about the deal and having MB in the clubhouse?
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/12/14/AS.TMP&type=as  also what kotsay said about barry?

by sctr76 on Dec 13, 2005 4:51 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Have I mentioned
I <3 Kotsay!

And of course I <3 Bobby!!!

"Happy Holiday's Billy Beane!" - Mychael Urban

by BobbyCrosbysGirl on Dec 13, 2005 4:58 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Is Milton really
a switch hitter?  I thought he was RH?
"I'm so green and gold that I hang on every pitch, not just every game." - Lew Wolff

by BleacherDrummer on Dec 13, 2005 4:58 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

are you saying
yahoo sports, espn, thebaseballcube... they all have it wrong?
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2005 6:35 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Thanks-I just hope he hits for power on both sides
His splits look ok.

.817 LH SLG
.903 RH SLG

over the last 3 yrs.

"I'm so green and gold that I hang on every pitch, not just every game." - Lew Wolff

by BleacherDrummer on Dec 13, 2005 11:30 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Comments
from Rotoworld:
As things stand now, the A's figure to use Bradley in right field, Nick Swisher at first base and Dan Johnson at DH. However, a trade of Jay Payton or Mark Kotsay can't be ruled out. The Yankees should already be on the phone with GM Billy Beane trying to acquire one of them. Our guess is that the A's will trade Payton and continue to pursue Frank Thomas or another slugger to DH.
The secret of life is honesty and fair dealing. If you can fake that, you've got it made. Groucho Marx

by Steve in Napa on Dec 13, 2005 4:57 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Kotsay has a no trade clause for 2006
unless he agreed to go to the Yanks he's not an option.

The only problem I see with sending Payton to the Yankees is that they're pretty bare of prospects...maybe cash?

by OaklandSi on Dec 13, 2005 5:00 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Mmmm....cash...
That makes sense. That's why they'll never do it. - Bill King

by alleahna on Dec 13, 2005 5:46 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

did anyone else notice
that Urban made no absolutely no mention of JayPay in his discussion of the acquisition of Bradley and how it would play out?

He says this about the outfield:

A natural center fielder, Bradley likely will start in right field with Oakland, but he'll be able to spell starting center fielder Mark Kotsay, who suffers from recurring back spasms. Nick Swisher, who spent much of his rookie season in right field, will be moved to first base, moving Dan Johnson, a unanimous pick to the 2005 Topps All-Rookie team as a first baseman, to designated hitter. Outfielder Bobby Kielty, like Swisher a switch-hitter, also figures to log significant playing time, either in left field, right field or at DH.

Did Urban just forget about Payton? Or what's going on here...is it possible there is more to this than meets the eye?  What if Urban already knows JayPay's off somewhere else and had this written preemptively? </conspiracy theory>

"You can't get any more 'Oakland' than the Coliseum. Get any more 'Oakland' and you're in San Leandro!" -Random Drunk Bum at Game

by rungood on Dec 13, 2005 5:16 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

But if...
he knew that Jay-Pay was moving, why would Swish move to first, and DJ to DH?  That doesn't make sense to me.

by timed exposure on Dec 13, 2005 6:05 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

that's a good point,
and I'm not sure.  I guess Urban must have just forgotten JayPay, but I think it's awfully weird that he didn't mention him.

I was more just piggy-backing on the analysis at rotoworld.com that suggested the A's might try to ship off Kotsay or JayPay (Payton being the more likely in my eyes) to the Yanks in exchange for prospects/cash, and I thought it would be cool if Urban knew something we didn't.  Maybe he does, but likely not.

Regardless, I think we're not done here and I'll be interested to see how the rest of the offseason shakes out, with
a) The Big Hurt
b) The extra OF: JayPay/Kotsay/Kielty
c) The plethora of backup 2nd basemen: Ginter/Scoot

"You can't get any more 'Oakland' than the Coliseum. Get any more 'Oakland' and you're in San Leandro!" -Random Drunk Bum at Game

by rungood on Dec 13, 2005 6:20 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

On MLB Radio,
Urban said Payton would be in left field.
Nobody Girl

by day-to-day on Dec 13, 2005 9:01 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

PHUCKING A !!!
That's all I got to say. =)

by Instant Replay Umpire on Dec 13, 2005 4:59 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

i like this trade
but remember beane's philosophy of getting want you need in the midseason.  we have a lot of chips to play with.
so much on my mind, i just can't recline -respiration

by ucla kid on Dec 13, 2005 5:00 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

He was a lot better this year with his anger.....
Except the Jeff Kent thing.  But a lot of people do not like Jeff Kent.  

Here's an interesting article.

http://apse.dallasnews.com/news/2005/041505gammons3.html

by What Would Rickey Do on Dec 13, 2005 5:01 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

good call
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2005 5:37 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

No joy
You failed to foresee a whole nother person! You lose serious style points for that. :)
I don't hate, I just respond aggressively to stupidity

by grover on Dec 13, 2005 6:39 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Thomas is not coming
the writing is on the wall in the new Urban article quoting Beane. I don't see Thomas being here.

http://oakland.athletics.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20051213&content_id=1281508& ;vkey=news_oak&fext=.jsp&c_id=oak

by oakfan97 on Dec 13, 2005 5:13 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I know it's early...
But if the A's can get Frank Thomas, I'd have to consider them the serious favorites to win the World Series. And that's saying something coming from a G's fan ;)
'It was just another win.' --Billy Beane

by balldood on Dec 13, 2005 5:15 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

woof police
you have been cited.  All mentions of "World Series" must be prohibited until the playoffs; violation of this policy leads to BAD LUCK

by rubin sierra on Dec 13, 2005 7:43 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

One bad apple spoils
the whole bunch.  I don't like this signing.  Thomas I would've welcomed.  Mr. Monopoly just scares me.  The A's clubhouse chemistry is legendary.  Let's just hope this cancer doesn't ruin it for good.

by atomopawn on Dec 13, 2005 5:19 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

question for monkeyball
are you brushing up on your Milton poetry yet?

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2005 5:28 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

first I have to brush ...
... all the burrs out of my coat. Thick underbrush always grows in during the winter months.
@('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2005 5:33 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

To quote the King-
"I am tired of all these nice guys. Give me some S.O.B.s that can hit"

-Bill King- circa mid 1990's

Somewhere up in baseball heaven Bill likes this trade.

2nd favorite team: WHOEVER IS PLAYING THE GIANTS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

by ConcordFanSince1968 on Dec 13, 2005 5:41 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Another Move on the way?
I have it on good confidence that Beane is about to trade for the Parker Brothers.  Also, he's deep in talks to sign the Monopoly Man to a 2-year deal.

Seriously, I think this trade is fair.  I was surprised we had to trade Ethier to get Bradley when he was so unwelcome in LA, but Ethier will likely never be anything more than a 4th outfielder.  And Perez is like a free option.  He's a quality bat and could start at 2B/3B for a number of teams.  I do think another move is in the works with Kennedy/Sar to pick up a LOOGY.      

Signatures? We don't need no stinking signatures.

by jubjub on Dec 13, 2005 5:42 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Or...
Aubrey Huff...
Signatures? We don't need no stinking signatures.

by jubjub on Dec 13, 2005 5:44 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

kennedy and saarloos
are way more valuable than a loogy.

i'm all for the a's moving away from oogies altogether...  

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2005 5:56 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

LOOGY plus ?
I figured they would get us a good LH reliever and maybe an OF prospect.  They may be valuable, but I'm not sure how valuable they are to us.
Signatures? We don't need no stinking signatures.

by jubjub on Dec 13, 2005 6:36 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

valuable to us!
saarloos: long RP, #6 starter
kennedy: blowouts (yabu role), long RP if saarloos ends up in the rotation b/c of injuries, semi-LOOGY
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2005 6:40 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Fun and games
MB:  "Has Billy Beane assembled a team that can contend for a championship?"
Wash:  "He Has,bro"
Beat the Angles (they're obtuse!)

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Dec 13, 2005 6:49 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Now Barton has a distinct position
LF.

He supposedly has a cannon for an arm, and certainly has the stats for a quality LFer.... We keep Bradley through 2006-2007 or so, by which point my already favorite MLB player (Bart-man) will be nice and ripe. Swish returns to RF, DJ to 1b, Barton to LF, someone else (Cliff P?) to DH... OR, Cliff to LF, Barton to DH...

Possibilities down the road are dreamily endless

by Alon on Dec 13, 2005 5:47 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

The way I see it
2007: Bradley-Kotsay-Swisher OF, Barton 1B, DJ DH.

by OaktownTribesman on Dec 13, 2005 6:24 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

a great trade
this is an absolute steal right now. Perez hit almost .300 last year so i think he may end up being the name we remember most for this deal. But the addition of Bradley automatically makes our OF defense the best in the majors.
"Their batters are patient to the point that it's annoying." -Ryan Franklin, Seattle Mariners

by Helloooo 1st on Dec 13, 2005 5:52 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Yes, a great trade!
I think the key to the trade is, in a way, Perez and not Bradley. Because Bradley's a headcase and an arbitration risk, I suspect no one was knocking on L.A.'s door, contrary to rumors. I also suspect (though clearly could be wrong) the Thomas signing is dead. With five players for four spots, and a back-up infielder who can rake, it makes sense that the DH be used as a rotation aid, allowing fragile players like Kotsay and Chavez to get rest from the field, and letting the other regulars play on a daily basis. (And this doesn't even take into account getting at bats for Kielty and Melhuse, or Watson or Ginter, if they ever wind up on the team).

Having said that, I agree that Payton is now trade bait, but I don't think Beane will do it during the off-season. If the A's desperately need a RH power hitter come late May through July, Payton can be traded for a two-month rental, or if they don't, he can be traded to a desperate team for a star prospect.

by richwol on Dec 13, 2005 6:10 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I much prefer using a rotating DH
than a full-time part-time player. And while I can accept a full time DH who still can hit but can't play everyday defense, I really don't like the idea of making a young player into a full-time DH. Call me old-fashioned, I guess, but I like to see  ballplayers play defense as well as hit.

by OaklandSi on Dec 13, 2005 6:20 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

what, you think if we open a new thread
Colletti will throw in a third player?
@('.')@

by monkeyball on Dec 13, 2005 6:26 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

we'll take choi
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2005 6:30 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

hah
i hope it's the good stuff and not the feces-laced stuff...

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/11/13/korea.china.kimchi.reut/

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2005 6:37 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

with 12
kim ng?
Go A's -- Nebraska

by Ryan Armbrust on Dec 13, 2005 8:19 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Thumbs up
I like this trade a lot.  Bradley is extremely talented and gives the A's a fabulous defensive outfield.  Beane had enough after witnessing 450 Marcu Scutaro plate appearances and stole a very productive utility guy.  This move should also push Payton to a 4th Ofer,  in a role he should excel at.  The A's bench was just brutal last year and now it becomes a strength.  Saarloos as a swingman and DL replacement starter should prevent the Ryan Glynn and Joe Kennedy type debacles.  

Apricot noted that she will have a tough time rooting for Bradley given his past problems.  This is a fair point, but I think that the A's had to pull the trigger given the value.  I think Ethier will have a nice career, but this is as good of time as any for the A's to go for it.

by DKNJ on Dec 13, 2005 6:02 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

she
apricot, you write like a girl!
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2005 6:03 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

It's the name
I figured Apricot was a girl until I saw the AN day pics.  
Signatures? We don't need no stinking signatures.

by jubjub on Dec 13, 2005 6:38 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Interesting.
I thought Apricot was a guy until I saw the AN Day pics.
Nico

by Nico on Dec 13, 2005 7:26 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

grrr
May the mold of a thousand fallen apples infest the walls of your apartment.

by Apricot on Dec 13, 2005 8:00 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Now, now, 'Cotty-pie--
You know I only diss the people I love. So don't go all "Bradley" on me, k?

<ducks one apple, gets hit by another, discovers law of gravity>

Nico

by Nico on Dec 13, 2005 8:12 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

revenge anime-style
<speed lines>

ONE THOUSAND YEARS OF MOLD!

<lightning bolts>
<crazy somersault>

<Nico's apartment suddenly gains a permanent mildewy smell>

MOO HA HA!

<brushes off hands>

by Apricot on Dec 13, 2005 8:40 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I hope we don't someday regret losing Ethier
but, I'm too stoked about having bradley to care right now. YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS. BILLY RULEZ!

by kvn on Dec 13, 2005 6:03 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

That's what stinks:
I feel like I have to root against prospects we traded away just to make Beane look smart. :(
Copernicus felt the same way about the geocentric crew.

by salb918 on Dec 13, 2005 6:07 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Hey Sal
How do you like the weather now? No snow... :-/

As for prospects, I always root for them to do well, because a) it reflects well on our farm system and b) it keeps bringing other GMs to the pot, and Billy can take advantage of that. I'll only root against a prospect traded away if said prospect badmouths the A's or lands on a hated rival team.

by OaktownTribesman on Dec 13, 2005 6:29 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Ugh.
I sneezed on the way to work, but all the snot and mucous froze on the way out of my nose.  I had to walk to work with a snotcicle sticking out a foot in front of me.  It was pretty awkward and quite gross.

I'm glad you have a more mature view than I do re: prospects.

Copernicus felt the same way about the geocentric crew.

by salb918 on Dec 13, 2005 6:35 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Freaking Cold
It was ridiculously cold today.  Accuweather claimed the "real feel" was -7 this morning before I left for the Z-Center.  And to think I gave up life in AZ with balmy 75-degree days in December.
Signatures? We don't need no stinking signatures.

by jubjub on Dec 13, 2005 6:41 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Just think:
in a few months, you'll be making a gazillion dollars while I'm still on stipend.  And then I'll get a real job and you'll be making three times my salary.  And then you'll retire and I'll get fired!
Copernicus felt the same way about the geocentric crew.

by salb918 on Dec 13, 2005 6:44 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Money can't buy happiness
But it can buy a fur coat or three to keep warm.  
Signatures? We don't need no stinking signatures.

by jubjub on Dec 13, 2005 6:47 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Money can't buy happiness?
You probably just don't know where the store is.
Copernicus felt the same way about the geocentric crew.

by salb918 on Dec 13, 2005 6:49 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Good news is
I'm leaving for Brazil on Friday... 3-week vacation... :)

by OaktownTribesman on Dec 13, 2005 6:56 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Speedo?
You do realize that full size swim shorts are outlawed in Brazil, right?  
Signatures? We don't need no stinking signatures.

by jubjub on Dec 13, 2005 7:00 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Speedo might be a good look OT
Copernicus felt the same way about the geocentric crew.

by salb918 on Dec 13, 2005 7:04 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Speedos
You do realize that full size swim shorts are outlawed in Brazil, right?

You can't fool me, I've lived there before. I happen to know for a fact that it doesn't matter if something is outlawed in Brazil, since it's basically a lawless country anyway.

Seriously, I was gonna use that same joke on a couple of my American friends who will be joining me on this trip...

by OaktownTribesman on Dec 13, 2005 7:08 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

South America
I've been wanting to go to South America ever since watching Motorcylce Diaries.  I saw it last week.

Next week I'm going to see Memoirs of a Geisha and will likely develop a need to go to Japan.  

Yes, I have an external locus of control.

Signatures? We don't need no stinking signatures.

by jubjub on Dec 13, 2005 7:29 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Doing both
I'll be going to Japan in the summer too.

I also badly want to do the "Motorcycle Diaries" tour... albeit modified since I don't know how to ride a motorcycle.

by OaktownTribesman on Dec 13, 2005 7:34 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I've got the same craving.
Years of taking Spanish, and I've never been able to use it in a practical fashion.

We should do an AN Motorcycle Diaries trip. That's one way to cope with the offseason! :-)

"Baseball fans are junkies, and their heroin is the statistic." -Robert S. Wieder

by Kyli on Dec 13, 2005 9:15 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Where can I send you a video?
I have a neat little mpeg of me in my credit union, making a large deposit into my bank account.  I hope it makes an impression on you.
Beat the Angles (they're obtuse!)

by FreeSeatUpgrade on Dec 13, 2005 7:43 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Not much reason to
I don't think we need to root against prospects, because most of them haven't done well over the course of the Beane years. I don't think that is a bad reflection on our system, but moreso a good reflection on Beane and the rest of the organization's eye for talent. We have kept most of the solid prospects and seen through the mirages like Jose Ortiz and Mario Encarnacion.

Also, if you remember, Beane thought very highly of Bonderman and knew that he could be trading away a future Cy Young award winner. But he did not regret making the trade because at the time it was what he needed to do for the team. It was a calculated risk that he was willing to take, and sometimes you have to do that and just hope for the best.

by timq24 on Dec 13, 2005 9:22 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Heh, bonderman is yet to post
an era+ higher than 93.

by SuperDingus on Dec 14, 2005 7:20 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Payton
If we end up trading Payton to the Yanks, it wouldn't matter who we got. It would be a salary dump. We could pick up some low-level, high-ceiling prospect, and we'd still come out on top because of the $ saved. We could then use that money to entice some Justin Smoak-like low-round draftee to sign, etc.

by OaktownTribesman on Dec 13, 2005 6:27 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Power
There have been a lot of worries about Bradley's power.  I'd advise a look at Baseball Prospectus's DT card for Bradley.  It will show that in '03 and '05, his adjusted slugging percentages were over .500.  That's power.

(Though granted, his power kind of disappeared in '04, so we'll hope he's not on some even-odd kick.)

by doctawojo on Dec 13, 2005 6:35 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

What they're saying
at Lookout Landing is quite flattering:
http://www.lookoutlanding.com/story/2005/12/13/172014/56

The A's add Milton Bradley, and we're talking about Carl Everett and Scott Elarton. If you're going to add a controversial and argumentative player, you might as well make it a good one, I guess.

==============

Bradley would have been light years better than anyone else available in free agency.

===============

This division is getting tougher and we are sitting around ready to get our Everett and Elarton. I wish Billy would take over another team (like in the NL) so I could watch his dastardly dealings from a safe distance.

===============

Great, great trade for the A's.

================

There's still a chance, and I'm going to cling to it, that Bradley still can't stay healthy, and that he gives them 250ABs in 2006, and that Ethier develops into everything we THINK Jeremy Reed will be (with a bit more pop).  Oh, and that Perez continues his remarkably inconsistent career and is dealt back to Tampa Bay for some pine tar.  These are the kinds of things you have to hope for, despite the mountain of precedent, when you play against the As.  

Copernicus felt the same way about the geocentric crew.

by salb918 on Dec 13, 2005 6:40 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Ill take
Beanes ideas on this one, over the nay sayers

Risk

of course its a risk

AA prospect for two useful major league additions yeah I can go for that

If Bradley tears down the podium and f---  offs the media  during fan fest, and never sees the field in green and gold, I say its still was worth the risk

by eastcoaster on Dec 13, 2005 6:52 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Oh and
if there is something that will change a man then this is it...

Bradley became a parent for the first time Sunday, when his wife gave birth to a son, Jeremiah.

by eastcoaster on Dec 13, 2005 7:01 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

No wonder
he choked his pregnant wife.  She obviously had an affair with a bullfrog.
Signatures? We don't need no stinking signatures.

by jubjub on Dec 13, 2005 7:03 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

hey, it's oakland....
If Randy Moss can make it here, so can Milton Bradley, lol.

We'd better get rid of that drunken racist Kerry Collins though; hope Bradley doesn't run into him in town somewhere--then again I do, in hopes that Bradley beats some sense into Kerry's noggin ;)

'It was just another win.' --Billy Beane

by balldood on Dec 13, 2005 7:28 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

drunken racist?
did I miss something? fill me in!

by kvn on Dec 13, 2005 7:31 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

ok ok
That's a hook I can hang my hopes on. Keep your anger on the ballfield and everyone will be happy. Except Plaschke. Heh heh.

by Apricot on Dec 13, 2005 8:03 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

An angle I hadn't thought of
This from Susan Slusser's article:
"Shortstop Bobby Crosby echoed Kotsay's sentiments, saying the Oakland clubhouse can absorb any personality, and, he added with a laugh, 'I've seen Bradley get fired up - I like that. We have a lot of guys who are calm and laid-back -- I'd like to see someone fired up.'"

I'm the quintessential Bay Area laid-back guy, but see that in sports, having some Energy on the team is an essential component. Here's hoping it'll be a productive combination!

Thank You Bill...
Go A's

by NomAd on Dec 13, 2005 7:09 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I like the move
he's shown a lot of growth on the plane flight over.

by opasewq on Dec 13, 2005 7:10 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

could Milton
and Ron Artest be dealt on back to back days?

by opasewq on Dec 13, 2005 7:11 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

A key angle to the offseason moves...
I haven't seen anyone specifically address this, but right now there are two commodities (well, three actually) that are in short supply in MLB.  Good pitching at a reasonable price, centerfielders and closers.  Beane has loaded us up with the first two (and many forget, but if healthy and able to snap his slider, Calero can close).  I think the team is very solid on paper right now, as Billy said... and we still have a lot of talent in minors.  Billy has the chip lead right around now...
The 2005 Oakland A's: Impressively Inept Frustratingly Futile

by shmik on Dec 13, 2005 7:30 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

a 4th to add, catchers
Good post.

Everybody has been talking about how there just are not any decent backup catchers in MLB right now.  I understand that is a big part of why we went for Kendall.  Melhuse would be a great trade chit too, though our AAA catchers are not proven reliable at this point.  

 

by jakarta on Dec 14, 2005 12:46 AM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I am
officially excited! Is it april yet??

I've been an A's fan since 1980 and this team, on paper at least, rates as one of the top teams I have seen here. Definitely one of the deepest.

Now to get a fifth job so I can afford season tickets...

by ChickenStanley on Dec 13, 2005 7:44 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Agreed on CF, RP and SP
BB is cornering the market on viable centerfielders, relief pitchers, and starting pitchers.  If the 2006 A's aren't a viable playoff team late in the year, I wouldn't rule out a trade of Zito, Loaiza, Witasick, Kennedy, Roney, Gaudin, Calero, Karnuth, Garcia, Saarloos, Kotsay, Payton, or Bradley at some point.  These are truly the spots on rosters that are generating the most $$ in free agent speding.  Not surprising that BB has been ahead of the market and has done a solid job of cornering it.  

Think the Yankees might be contacting the A's if the miss out on Johnny Damon, or any team looking for a starting pitcher, or the dozen or so playoff contenders looking for bullpen help??!

Of course, the A's are certainly a viable contenter in 2006, so BB will be dealing from the desirable position of strength.  Regardless, BB has positioned the A's for long-term success.

Hate to fawn, but, quite simply, BB is the master of reading the market and manipulating it.  Is anyone here suprised?  Yeah, didn't think so...  So where are those Billy Beane as Mao t-shirts anyway???

by Cy Norris 1980 on Dec 13, 2005 7:51 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

new rumor...
in a 4 team deal involving Oakland, St Louis, Florida, and New York, BB trades Zito, Loaiza, Witasick, Kennedy, Roney, Gaudin, Calero, Karnuth, Garcia, Saarloos, Kotsay, Payton, and Bradley for Pujols, Cabrera, Willis, and A-Rod. Plus $150 million in cash considerations to Oakland...
Go A's -- Nebraska

by Ryan Armbrust on Dec 13, 2005 8:26 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Glad to see...
a fellow husker/athletic getting into the spirt!

Go Green and Gold, Scarlet and Cream!

by Cy Norris 1980 on Dec 13, 2005 8:39 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

yea
I've been a Husker since birth, an A's fan since I was 5.
Go A's -- Nebraska

by Ryan Armbrust on Dec 14, 2005 12:11 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Live from LA
Big news in LA....

Most think the Dodgers got worked.

"Oakland Athletics, and the art of emotional detachment"

by Force on Dec 13, 2005 7:57 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

nice
Copernicus felt the same way about the geocentric crew.

by salb918 on Dec 13, 2005 8:29 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Comment from Bradley after the trade
"I know I'm going to be successful regardless," he said. "I'm a no-nonsense guy. I laugh and joke with everybody, but when on the field, I'm all about winning. I'm not going out there to just go through the motions and have fun. I'm going out there to win."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/baseball/mlb/12/13/bradley.athletics.ap/index.html

by ChickenStanley on Dec 13, 2005 8:20 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Blimey guvnor! it's all good.
the great playoff miss of 2004 followed by the good try of 2005.

by ak_A on Dec 13, 2005 8:21 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Goodbye
Ronald McDonald. Too many outfeilders. Neither Payton or Bradley will sit without making a huge stink.

by magnantecandunk on Dec 13, 2005 8:27 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

What the Halo fans are saying:
http://www.halosheaven.com/story/2005/12/14/0347/8837

/ In baseball, there is a whole group of guys certain that chemistry in the clubhouse doesn't mean NADA when it comes to the results on the diamond. One of them is, famously, Billy Beane.

Well, he is about to find out. He just traded a prime outfielder prospect for a legendary package of outspoken trouble in the person of Milton Bradley. this is the dude whose widow pinky got a boo-boo swinging the friggin bat and was the disabled list. He is also likely to yell and scream at inconvenient moments.

Unfortunately for the Angels, if he stays healthy and unarrested, the mo-fo can get on base like few in the game.

Part of me thinks the Dodgers did this trade to fuck with us, but if the prospect pans out, then we can in a paranoid reversal blame Billy Beane for screwing with our marketshare mojo.

So this trade is win/win for the conspiracy theorists and a big OH SHIT for all Angel fans who want to think that the team up north (not Team Halloween, their runt Bayside cousins that are the same color as your boogers) just got better.

If Bradley gets injured or everyone whines about losing and blames it on his mouth, the chemistry debate will have been finally settled against the pocket-protector crowd./

Do the SBNation blogs take on the personalities of the teams or is it the other way around?

Copernicus felt the same way about the geocentric crew.

by salb918 on Dec 13, 2005 9:25 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

so that's what
a truly professional blog looks like.  clASS act all the way....
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 13, 2005 9:30 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah.
The Rev is a dick, although I think he's technically a coworker of mine...
Copernicus felt the same way about the geocentric crew.

by salb918 on Dec 13, 2005 9:34 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

wow.
we're snot?

if we're snot, what are they?

by Jjjsixsix on Dec 13, 2005 9:33 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

bloody snot?
I dunno.  I read halosheaven as a way to amuse myself.
Copernicus felt the same way about the geocentric crew.

by salb918 on Dec 13, 2005 9:36 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Does it start with a M...end in stration?
hollowspec: What's your favorite beer? Dan Johnson: Free.

by FireballerHARDEN on Dec 13, 2005 9:52 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah
Masturbation-induced castration... nasty stuff.

by OaktownTribesman on Dec 13, 2005 9:55 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm sorry I ever brought this up.
Copernicus felt the same way about the geocentric crew.

by salb918 on Dec 13, 2005 9:56 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

LOL, oh dude.
Thanks for posting that. Man. I gotta admit, those posts are a hell of a lot funnier during the offseason. Ahh... gotta love the booger-comparison, it's quite an underrated tactic.
"Baseball fans are junkies, and their heroin is the statistic." -Robert S. Wieder

by Kyli on Dec 13, 2005 9:36 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Here's what you're all missing
With the DJ and payton trade talk.

Bradley is not demonstrably superior to Kotsay, swisher, DJ-- maybe even payton-- unless he repeats his career year in Cleveland where he only played 101 games.

What he does do is add even more depth the OF-1B-DH combo in the expected wake of a Thomas acquisition.

So this team is pretty much guaranteed at any given point of having 5 players with an average OPS of around 800 playingin those 5 slots, and occasionally even better with Thomas.

Swish can't hit lefties-- play Payton and/or kielty;

Kotsay needs a rest-- play payton;

Thomas goes down-- play the other 5;

bradley goes down-- play Payton;

Swish needs a rest-- play DJ and payton;

DJ needs a rest-- the reverse.

None of these guys are going to be traded.

oaktoon

by oaktoon on Dec 13, 2005 9:30 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Uh oh
I think this is the first time a thread has hit 350 since the auto-annoy feature goes on at 350 instead of 200.
Copernicus felt the same way about the geocentric crew.

by salb918 on Dec 13, 2005 9:38 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Dang, we've gone threaded.
I had almost forgotten about that whole threaded thing. It's been so long since a thread has gotten up to 350, post-change... ah, for the days of game threads. Who wants to have a (fake) game thread?? (I really don't want to study.)
"A baseball game is simply a nervous breakdown divided into nine innings." -Earl Wilson

by whiteshoes40 on Dec 13, 2005 9:38 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Bradley and Moneyball
We call all discuss his numbers on paper and try to make them fit our system, but let's not forget: in the end, Moneyball isn't necessarily about OBP or anything other number. It is about utilizing players that are undervalued by other teams to the advantage of our Oakland Athletics. Since many teams weren't looking at OBP, that was one of the focal points for Beane.

Bradley is a player who is undervalued and still has great potential, the only problem is he is mostly undervalued because of his personality. The overall character on the A's team over the Beane years has been great, so how he fits in will be a big concern. I think that he may finally be ready to turn a corner here, and I certainly hope he does. However, knowing Billy, if Bradley starts stirring it up he will be gone just as quickly as he came in, spun off to another team for another peice to the puzzle. And that is the comforting fact to me, that we aren't pinning our whole season on him as other teams do with their superstar acquisitions.

Until he proves otherwise though, I will give him a fair shot. So I say... Let there be Games!

by timq24 on Dec 13, 2005 9:39 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

great quote from the M's site
"What a crappy couple days of news. This division is getting tougher and we are sitting around ready to get our Everett and Elarton. I wish Billy would take over another team (like in the NL) so I could watch his dastardly dealings from a safe distance."

HA!   Thats the stuff that makes me one of the luckiest fans in baseball

"No. Well, sometimes I am. But I'm fun crazy." -- White Sox OF Carl Everett when asked if he is crazy in the July issue of Maxim

by haze on Dec 13, 2005 11:18 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

...and they coulda had Terrell Owens.
Many franchises mistakenly thought their collective character could negate one cancerous personality. I hope Billy is right. However, the A's are not exactly a racially balanced club, and Bradley has a history of playing that card (e.g., the Dodgers "didn't know how to relate to African-Americans...").

It'll be interesting to see how the Bradley-Macha relationship transpires.

Perhaps fatherhood has mellowed the guy.

by kimnjerry on Dec 14, 2005 9:09 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

Thomas
What's this mean for Thomas - the kid we got for Hudson?  Is Thomas in the mix at all?

by eajudge on Dec 14, 2005 10:18 AM PST reply actions   0 recs

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