Who would you give for PUJOLS

by peoples27 on Dec 10, 2005 9:57 AM PST Comment 33 comments

I just read an article on fox sports (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5154934) that basically said the cardinals have all these holes they need to fill and that the market is going crazy and they are goinig to have to come up with some ways to fill the holes.

so, maybe their answer is to trade pujols to us. our system is deep at all levels and we can fill not only their holes but whatever holes we create as well.

so, who do you think it would take for us to land pujols from the cardinals.

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Ok...

We all now the chance of this happening, but still, it's fun.

Chavez, Blanton, Pennington, Suzuki.

It's a lot, but he's the best in the game.

Two-thirds of the earth is covered by water, the other third is covered by Kotsay.

by carp on Dec 10, 2005 10:08 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

yes, just fun

i would give zito, kennedy, johnson, and 2 prospects of their choice. maybe putnam and robnett?

Baseball is like life. It's a day-to-day existence, full of ups and downs. You make the most of your opportunities in baseball as you do in life. - E Harwell

by peoples27 on Dec 10, 2005 10:15 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

what would i trade for Albert Pujols?

I would say sometihng like Rich Harden, but since they would trade him to fill a lot of holes, they wouldn't trade him for one player (not that they are trading im for anybody).

But anyways, here goes:

Blanton, Dan Johnson, Mark Ellis and Andre Ethier

RIP Bill King "By the Beard of Zeus!" "I don't know if you heard me counting. I did over a thousand"

by ohad on Dec 10, 2005 10:22 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

His value is HUGE

And the Cardinals won't trade him, period, regardless. Even with all those holes, they STILL can win if they have Pujols. It would be like the Giants trading Barry Bonds (minus 15 years). Him alone will make them a winning team, but if you remove him...

The Cards will fill their holes in FA or via trades, perhaps taking on a big contract. They might be after Abreu, who knows.

They still have:
Mulder
Carp
Izzy
Pujols
Rolen
Edmonds
Eckstien
Marquis

There are only two races in Baseball, Right Handers and Left Handers.

by Zonis on Dec 10, 2005 10:26 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

The A's have already given the Cards enough

They should give us Pujols for nothing.

Maybe then we'd be even with them, after all the players they've gotten from Oakland over the years with not much in return.

by socal on Dec 10, 2005 10:29 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

McGwire true

but Mulder??

That trade may have wrecked the Cardinals long term

oaktoon

by oaktoon on Dec 10, 2005 10:49 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Ehhhh

The Mulder deal isn't as bad as the McSteroid giveaway, that's true. And it will be good if Haren stays healthy and pitches well for the next four years -- but that means at best the A's are getting a cheaper Mulder for four more years.

Calero is good but is too old to be a "prospect" with "potential". Barton is a DH who might play 1B -- he's our next Durazo.

I generally like the Beane philosophy, but it does have limitations, and IMO one of them is this: Good and cheap means exactly that. Good plus cheap does not equal great.

by socal on Dec 10, 2005 11:34 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Barton

has very similar stats to Albert Pujols... I've made the comparisons before, but basically it goes:

Barton -- Better OBP
Pujols -- Better SLG
Pujols -- SLIGHTLY better OPS... something like .005-.01 points or so

Barton is described by BB as the best hitter in the A's organization. Bar none.

Next Durazo, or next in a line of A's superstars???

by Alon on Dec 10, 2005 8:28 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Barton & Pujols shouldn't be mentioned

in the same breath. Sure, Billy Beane ignored this when he said Barton's abilities were "Pujols-like." But he said this just hours after trading Mulder for three guys that most casual baseball fans had never heard of before. He had to sell the trade hard to those casual fans, and that over-exaggeration w.r.t. Barton was part of his sales pitch.

Great, their stats are similar, never mind that one accumulated those stats in the majors, while the other toiled in class A. Every team has prospects that it HOPES have superstar potential. But very few of those prospects become superstars. Hell, a lot of them never even become decent major-leaguers.

In conclusion: if you were the A's GM, and Walt Jocketty called you all high on mushrooms and said "I'll trade you Pujols for Barton," and you said, "Well I have no problem taking advantage of your drug-addled state, but I don't think I want to make that trade ... Barton's younger, cheaper, and just as good," ... well if that were to happen, I'd have to kill you.

by rubin sierra on Dec 11, 2005 12:03 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

LOL

I agree. And if Barton was really the best hitter in the A's organization, he'd be pencilled in to play everyday in 2006.

What Beane meant, even if one agrees with all of the optimism in his original comment, was that Barton had the potential to someday be the best hitter in the organization.

If I had a dollar for every class A player whom some scout or GM compared to a Hall of Famer or future HOFer, I'd have as much money as Bill Gates.

by socal on Dec 11, 2005 11:06 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

why shouldn't they be mentioned

in the same breath?

"Great, their stats are similar, never mind that one accumulated those stats in the majors, while the other toiled in class A."

that's flat out wrong. their stats are similar at the class A level, which is why beane compared the two, not because of a "sales pitch."

yes, very few prospects become superstars. so?

A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Dec 12, 2005 12:41 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Because

I prefer to acknowledge reality as I root for the best. I'm all for optimism, but I prefer plausible optimism, realistic optimism--I don't want to get greedy. Talking about Barton perhaps cracking the major-league roster next year--that's realistically optimistic. Talking about the chances of him being the next Pujols--that to me is greedy. It was so greedy of a remark by Beane that I have to think he was motivated by a need to sell the trade to the fans. Sure, his single-A numbers may have been similar to Pujols', but what possible good did it do when Beane pointed that out? As it turned out, he didn't need to sell that trade--Haren & Calero sold it for him. If it hadn't been for that remark, there would be hardly any expectations on Barton--and whatever he accomplished would be icing on the cake.

by rubin sierra on Dec 13, 2005 12:59 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

If I were GM of Oakland...

I'd sell the rights to previously traded-for Billy the Marlin

by Alon on Dec 10, 2005 10:41 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

i would trade

chavez
zito
dj
ellis
crosby
kotsay
kendall
payton
blanton
haren

and... a few others.

I mean what a ridiculous question-- he ain't going anywhere.

oaktoon

by oaktoon on Dec 10, 2005 10:48 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

If I were the Cards

I would demand Chavez, Street, and Harden. Seriously. Bonds aside -- and who knows what kind of player he'll continue to be now -- Pujols is certainly the best hitter in the game, and has been incredibly consistent. The man has now played 5 years in the majors, and has had only one season with an OPS of less than 1.000 (.955 in 2002). His career OPS+ is 169. Take a look at this list to understand how great that is. Oh and in his 5-year career, he's missed a total of 19 games.

It's hard to call a 25 or 26-year old a sure-fire, 1st ballot Hall of Famer, but the only reason to doubt that Pujols will be elected on his first try is what Bill James calls "residual doubt" -- he might quit baseball to become a professional bass fisherman, or decide to move to a hut in the jungle with Angelina Jolie, or get badly injured in a freak cooking accident. Other than that, he's destined to go down as one of the 10 greatest hitters of all time.

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Dec 10, 2005 10:57 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

That's about right

A Beane in the hand is worth $60M in payroll

by jeepers on Dec 12, 2005 1:39 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Two thoughts on this:

The odds of the Cards being open to moving Pujols would be higher if they hadn't traded Daric Barton. It wouldn't look very good to trade "the best hitting prospect in minor league baseball" solely because you had no place to put him, and then create a place to put him!
I wouldn't trade more than Cruz and Kennedy for Pujols, just for the slight chance that St. Louis might trick the A's and send them Luis Pujols.

Nico

by Nico on Dec 10, 2005 11:02 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Albert and Luis

I was just thinking about Luis Pujols. Do you think there's any other pair of identically-named, but not related, players whose careers and talents are less similar? Leave out Jackson and Williams -- over 30 "Jacksons" have played in the majors, I'm sure at least one was a marginal player. But Luis and Albert are the only 2 Pujolses ever to play in the major leagues.

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Dec 10, 2005 11:08 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Hmm...Interesting question...

Let's see...Are there any hall-of-famers named "Snell"?

Nico

by Nico on Dec 10, 2005 11:24 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Or "Hillegas?"

(ew)

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Dec 10, 2005 11:27 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

that would be a good deal for

Luis Polonia

by rubin sierra on Dec 11, 2005 12:06 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

Cruz, Kennedy, and Ginter

If they're all like "Well, I dunno...", I'll throw in Chucky T and seal the deal.

:-P

by OaktownTribesman on Dec 10, 2005 11:04 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Melhuse

Add Melhuse to the ticket and we may just get that deal done after all.

by AlBowe on Dec 10, 2005 11:21 AM PST up reply actions 0 recs

This is a trick question

It doesn't matter what we would give, if they are willing to trade Pujols to the A's you give them ANY three players they want. If they ask for Harden, Street, and Barton ---> DONE!

by LizardKing51 on Dec 10, 2005 11:26 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

Uh, no

I definitely would NOT trade those three for Pujols.

by OaktownTribesman on Dec 10, 2005 4:20 PM PST up reply actions 0 recs

To make it worthwhile:

Zito, Johnson, Either, Kennedy, Saarloos, Rincon, Charles Thomas, Cruz and Ginter.

I think that would be somewhat realistic to both sides too, given what holes they have (don't think they need Chavez if they have Rolen) and given what we would be able to live with dealing to make it work.

And to oaktoon, of course its ridiculous to think they would deal him. Sometimes its ok to have fun thinking "what if" though.

Whatever Jose Canseco says must be true

by WiscoFan on Dec 10, 2005 11:47 AM PST reply actions 0 recs

I think the more appropriate question

judging from these responses is who WOULDN'T we give up to get Pujols.

I think I'm going to go dream about the alternate universe where Albert is on this team. <drool>

by nycfan on Dec 10, 2005 1:58 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

I'd do it for something around this

Zito, Chavez, Street, Johnson, Meyer.

by rickeytime on Dec 10, 2005 5:43 PM PST reply actions 0 recs

Stop Comparing Barton...

To Pujols. Barton is a fine prospect. A guy whose been young for his leagues and has nonetheless shown great command of the strike zone. He's had pretty good doubles power, and is reasonably strong, so there's a solid chance he improves his overall power within the next two or three years; perhaps even significantly. He handled double a at the tender age of 19, and looks like a great bet to be the next John Olerud, perhaps even better.

Comparing him to Albert Pujols is silly. Forget the minor league stat lines, Pujols has had probably the 4th or 5th best start to a major league career in baseball history. Nobody else in the game can consistently come close to posting as many homerun as strikeouts. He's a freak of nature, not of this world, clearly the best hitter in the game. I love Barton, and I think if everthing breaks right, he may even be the next Jason Giambi. I can't wait till he wears an A's uniform. But he will never match Albert Pujos as a hitter.

by Little Rickey on Dec 10, 2005 10:34 PM PST reply actions 0 recs