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What if...? A look back

What if Beane had gone with the "other" approach and kept the Big 3 together?

We'd currently have Harden, Zito, Mulder and Blanton under contract with Hudson hitting free agency. Let's say Lew Wolff opens his wallet and extends Hudson for the 4yrs/$44 million that he got from Atlanta.

RHP T. Hudson $9.5 million (backloaded contract)
RHP Harden $500k
LHP Zito $8.5 million
LHP Mulder $7.5 million
RHP Blanton $300k

Street $300k
Duchscherer $300k
Saarloos $300k
Garcia $300k
Flores $300k
Rheinecker $300k
Another Reliever ???

C Melhuse $750k (would have to dump Kendall's contract, maybe have to eat a few million)
1B Swisher $300k
DH D. Johnson $300k
2B Ellis $1 million
SS Crosby $1 million
3B Chavez $9.5 million (his contract is backloaded as well)
LF Ethier $300k
CF Kotsay $7 million
RF Kielty $1 million

That's only about a $50 million payroll by my count... but there'd be no Barton coming along either.

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That'd be one kick ass staff
but a pretty crappy lineup.  Melhuse and Kielty should not be everyday players on a contending team.    
Bill Stoneman is about to be offered three seasons of a right-handed version of Vladimir Guerrero - Rev Halofan

by pickinmachine on Nov 30, 2005 12:47 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Not to mention Melhuse isn't
an everyday defensive catcher either.
Two-thirds of the earth is covered by water, the other third is covered by Kotsay.

by carp on Nov 30, 2005 3:30 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

There would be some money to spend though
We could sign a free agent DH or LF/RF to bump Kielty from the starting lineup.

Melhuse could catch 100 games a year, his offense is above average for a catcher (look around the league, the level of offense for catchers is pretty pathetic)

by NP15 on Nov 30, 2005 1:19 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

where the heck is byrnes?
if we are KEEPING these traded players?
"Baseball is like church, many attend, few understand" - Leo Durocher

by gWiLiKeRzZz on Nov 30, 2005 1:21 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Where did we get the $$$
to pay for Kotsay's extension along with Chavez and Hudson's backloaded contracts?  Who pitched for us when Hudson and Harden were out for a couple of months?  If we never acquired Kendall, where are Redman, Rhodes, and their salaries?
Copernicus felt the same way about the geocentric crew.

by salb918 on Nov 30, 2005 1:31 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

He's saying we made that trade
and then dumped Kendall ...

but, yeah, the big question is - what happens next year? Zito and Mulder walk and there is no one in line to take their place. The offense continues to suck since most of the money freed up from Zito and Mulder will get eatten up by escalating salaries and ...

by devo on Nov 30, 2005 1:42 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I can't imagine we could
have dumped Kendall without throwing in some $$$
Copernicus felt the same way about the geocentric crew.

by salb918 on Nov 30, 2005 1:44 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

He mentioned that ...
he's forgetting to mention that we have to pay for a bench and when you add that to the $5m we'd have to pay for Kendall to play for someone else, you're left with a pretty crappy team with a damn good rotation, an average bullpen and little offense that is going to fall apart in one year.

by devo on Nov 30, 2005 1:47 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

In my rush to judgement
I didn't read the post carefully.  My apologies to Jay.
Copernicus felt the same way about the geocentric crew.

by salb918 on Nov 30, 2005 1:54 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

future
makes you really appreciate Beane's vision with the A's.
Bill Stoneman is about to be offered three seasons of a right-handed version of Vladimir Guerrero - Rev Halofan

by pickinmachine on Nov 30, 2005 3:30 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Wait,
Do you really think that KenDoll just says, "No, really guys, I'll just settle for - oh, I don't know - say $1 million.  You guys can just keep that other $10 million for this year that you would otherwise owe me and then, while you're at it, just void the rest of the years and the money too." !?!? [double interabang]

by LowcountryJoe on Nov 30, 2005 1:56 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Presumably
Kendall is traded to, oh, the Mets or Astros or whoever for cash and bag of balls.  If that's the case, though, why wouldn't the Pirates have done that originally?  Or, if we're doing it this offseason, why would they even take a chance on Kendall given that Molina and Hernandez are available?

tempting thought, but reality always interabangs, no?

Copernicus felt the same way about the geocentric crew.

by salb918 on Nov 30, 2005 1:59 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

more interrobang for the buck!
Doesn't "interrobang" sound like something reporters should be asking Porter Goss about?
Ginter for hamburger, Kennedy for quarter, Huff for frozen burrito and forty - Uncle Charlie

by monkeyball on Nov 30, 2005 2:08 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

So then,
Which past or present government official should we be asking about regarding the "intern-a-bang"?

by LowcountryJoe on Nov 30, 2005 5:26 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

<snicker>
Nicely done!
Ginter for hamburger, Kennedy for quarter, Huff for frozen burrito and forty - Uncle Charlie

by monkeyball on Nov 30, 2005 5:34 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

"Kiki Either"?
Is that Andre's brother? ;)
Ginter for hamburger, Kennedy for quarter, Huff for frozen burrito and forty - Uncle Charlie

by monkeyball on Nov 30, 2005 2:06 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

my ass has been called many things ...
... but never before "wise" ...
Ginter for hamburger, Kennedy for quarter, Huff for frozen burrito and forty - Uncle Charlie

by monkeyball on Nov 30, 2005 5:33 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

The real comparison here would be
If we hadn't traded huddy- which was perhaps the worst trade (by impact on the 2005 team) BB has made in recent times- and made the same deal for mulder- which was perhaps the best trade BB has made. Haren's performance last year was equal to or better than mulder's, at a fraction of the cost, and  has a much lower injury risk...combine that with calero and barton and I don't see why it's even worth imagining what it'd be like with Mulder still around. For the sake of the big 3 + harden and blanton, though, it is indeed a dominant rotation.

by JCase on Nov 30, 2005 1:59 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

Some notes
-Byrnes was too expensive to keep.

-Depending on how they performed, you could re-sign either Zito and Mulder at $11 million/yr, which only represents a slight increase in salary. Guessing they'd let Mulder walk after he posted a 4.00+ ERA (converted for American League from last year).

-Keep in mind that if Wolff raised payroll to, say, $66 million, they could afford a pretty decent bat.

-The offense would be pretty much the same actually, I mean Melhuse is probably better than Kendall offensively over 150 games. The only other change is Ethier instead of Payton.

-The rotation would be absolutely dominant. The bullpen would be ok but very thin.

-We would have been screwed when Harden and Hudson got hurt last year. Shows why Billy is valuing durability and depth in starting pitching this year.

-If we keep Zito and trade Blanton or Kennedy/Cruz/Saarloos, I like the 2006 team better. (And I like the team even more going forward)

-It wouldn't have been a complete disaster to keep those guys; in fact, we could have made a pretty serious championship run in 2005 and again in 2006 if the pitching stayed healthy. However, the variance in wins would be much higher; the roster above with the Big 3 intact has no depth and no insurance for injuries... basically no room for error.

by NP15 on Nov 30, 2005 2:05 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

I meant...
I meant that I like the actual 2006 team better than the fake 2006 team, assuming Zito stays.

I think it makes much more sense to trade Blanton (see today's DLD) or one of the "extra" starters, and head to war with a very motivated Zito in his walk year.

by NP15 on Nov 30, 2005 2:08 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

why the rush?
Hans Blix hasn't finished inspecting Arte Moreno's palaces yet ...
Ginter for hamburger, Kennedy for quarter, Huff for frozen burrito and forty - Uncle Charlie

by monkeyball on Nov 30, 2005 2:09 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

I have very credible evidence
that Arte is trying to obtain weapons of mass (run) production.  I hear that he once made his own people watch Darin Erstad bat for a full-season.
Copernicus felt the same way about the geocentric crew.

by salb918 on Nov 30, 2005 2:21 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Likewise, there is evidence that ...
... Arte Moreno met with Manny Ramirez in Prague in 2001 ...
Ginter for hamburger, Kennedy for quarter, Huff for frozen burrito and forty - Uncle Charlie

by monkeyball on Nov 30, 2005 2:43 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

As far as I knew/know
Blix was in the dark concerning the DLDs at the AN Palace.  Investigate your facts a little better next time befor commenting, Monkey-boy ;).

by LowcountryJoe on Nov 30, 2005 2:50 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

That's because he was ...
... caught up in the UN links-for-food scandal!
Ginter for hamburger, Kennedy for quarter, Huff for frozen burrito and forty - Uncle Charlie

by monkeyball on Nov 30, 2005 3:00 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

2005
The finances would not have worked last year. We can only "afford" them this year because we're taking for granted that Ruby, Dotel, Hatty, Byrnes and Rincon are gone and their combined ~$15m of salary is wiped from the books. That pays for both Zito and Mulder this year. Last year, no such luck.

by devo on Nov 30, 2005 3:28 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Hmm
Call me crazy but I think that if the A's trade Zito, they'll end up being better... simply because Billy always gets more value than he gives up in trades (it's simply way too early to call the Huddy deal bad)
Keeping Zito would be great, but from a practical (and financial) standpoint, I'm not worried about it at all... if BB trades him, he'll land a mother lode of talent.

Yeah, off topic... my mistake

by Alon on Nov 30, 2005 2:49 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

No one makes a good deal every time.
The Huddy deal is a huge dud....but who knows..it can be saved a bit if Meyer is good in a couple years
Bring back Hammer.

by OaktownPower on Nov 30, 2005 3:23 PM PST up reply actions   0 recs

Melhuse....
Is there anything to back up that Melhuse would do good in a starting role? Better than Kendall even? Great backup cathcer, but it's tough to say what his offense would look like playing 100-120 or more games. I am not saying he would suck, I am geniunely curious. Maybe if he went to Colorado with Cruz (or Saarloos or Rhino) for Shealy though....
"Work like you don't need the money, love like you've never been hurt, dance like nobody is watching....." - KW

by PosterNutbag44 on Nov 30, 2005 2:52 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

hudson
you can't just make hudson stay in oakland.  
if he wanted to sign elsewhere (as he indicated in aces) he would, and then the rotation wouldn't look nearly as nice, but the lineup would look worse than it does now.
A's v Giants "is kind of like the difference between going to see the Ramones and going to see the Bee Gees. A's fans will go see the Ramones." -BB 07/27/05

by xbhaskarx on Nov 30, 2005 4:19 PM PST reply actions   0 recs

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