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Around SBN: The Ten Worst Swings Of The 2011 Season

Deal and FA Pick Up

Two moves for the A's.  

  1.  Trade for Shea Hillenbrand.  
  2.  Sign Eddie Guardado.  
The Shea Hillenbrand idea has already been discussed here:  http://www.athleticsnation.com/story/2005/10/26/153045/50.  But, the Guardado move hasn't.  

HILLENBRAND
Is Hillenbrand the "big bat" we need?  Maybe.  He's not the traditional "big bat" that has been talked about on this board (i.e., Adam Dunn, Paul Konerko), but he might be a good bat to complement the other players in the A's lineup.  

The current A's lineup is stacked with high-OBP guys who don't get a lot of hits.  The A's were 6th in the AL in runs this year, 3rd in BB and 10th in hits.  Hillenbrand had 173 hits this year, which would have led the A's in that category (and his BABIP was .310, so his .290 AVG was supported by skills, not luck).  

Seems to me adding a hitter like Hillenbrand, who brings a tempered swing-first attitude to the plate would add something to this offense that it is currently lacking -- a guy who moves guys around the bases two or three at a time, rather than one at a time.  Hillenbrand had 267 total bases last year, which would have put him second on the A's behind Chavez.  This is the kind of hitter we need in our lineup...  We don't have the money for a big bat (unless we want to sacrifice other areas of the team), but we can't afford to try to patch up our glaring offensive weakness (the propensity to leave runners stranded) with another Bobby Kielty or Keith Ginter.  

Anyway, I'm picturing a lineup that looks something like this...  

2b Ellis
cf Kotsay
dh Hillenbrand
3b Chavez
ss Crosby
1b Johnson
lf Payton
rf Swish
c  Kendall (our "2nd leadoff hitter")

GUARDADO
The M's just declined Guardado's team option for 2006, which would have paid him $6.25M.  He has a player option for 2006 for $4.25, but it looks like he'll opt for free agency.  

I'm not sure whether he'd want to come back in a set-up role, but over the last five years you'd be hard-pressed to find a more consistently good relief pitcher.  3:1 K:BB ratio.  Sub-3.00 ERA the last four years.  He has been dominant against lefties over the last three years (.470 OPS) and decent against righties as well (.687 OPS).  I know, we've had our problems with former Seattle southpaws... but Guardado is basically a sure thing when he comes out of the pen, and Arthur Rhodes was clearly having problems before he came to Oakland.  

Of course, we'd have to worry about the Yankees, Red Sox, and every other big market team coming in and swarming over the left-handed RP... but you never know what motivates a guy.  Maybe he wants to stay on the West Coast (he was born in Stockton).  Maybe he doesn't want to play in NY or Boston.  Maybe he wants to help the A's win the World Series.  

The addition of Guardado would make our pen pretty darn nasty:  Street, Guardado, Duke, Calero, Kennedy and Cruz.  That's a good pen, with lots of options and matchup advantages.  

Plus, if we got Hillenbrand (who will probably cost about $5M next year), we'd have enough money to offer Guardado a two-year $10-11M contract (which is probably his approximate market value based on the fact that he's declining a $4.25M option and the M's declined his $6.25M option).  Based on what I've read in other diaries, I think that puts us at about $62-65M total payroll... which is right where we should be.  

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By the way...
... one of the many points raised in the diary that I linked to in my diary is that we could possibly get Hillenbrand on the cheap.  

Toronto has a logjam in the infield (Hinske at 1B, Hudson at 2B, Adams at SS, Koskie at 3B, Hill trying to fit in somehwere).  Therefore, JP Ricci might be willing to deal Hillenbrand for a couple of minor leaguers.  Plus, Hillenbrand becomes a 6-year player after 2006... so he's only restricted for one more season.  

This is a bonus to the Hillenbrand idea, over ideas like Konerko (way to expensive) and Dunn (Reds demanding a major-league starter).  We could probably get him for one AAA player or a couple of AA prospects.  

by Uncle Charlie on Oct 28, 2005 12:48 AM PDT reply actions  

Oops
If he <does Not accidentally hit return> thinks he can get more than that player option, then the A's can't get him (certainly not to set up).  If he did it because he didn't like the direction Sea was headed, then that last sentence can be discounted.

He always says he likes playing in front of family/friends (as you point out, he's a local guy).  Although, the A's have had his number, he wouldn't have to pitch against us if he played for us (but I'd be a little afraid he may have been trained to twitch when taking the Oak. mound given his struggles here).

I just don't think he'd take a reduced role AND a severe pay cut.

I have little opinion on Hillenbrand (if pressed for a position, I'd say no to getting him).

by StewFan on Oct 28, 2005 3:24 AM PDT reply actions  

Guardado
Beane hasn't exactly made a habit out of overpaying for relievers. I think Guardado may be heading to the Orioles after they lose BJ Ryan to free agency, they've made quite a habit of overpaying for players, relievers or otherwise.
Free Josh Willingham

by beanefan27 on Oct 28, 2005 7:27 AM PDT reply actions  

Not that we will,
but if we ponied up to sign Guardado and Ryan, would we ever lose a game we led after 5?
Nico

by Nico on Oct 28, 2005 8:28 AM PDT reply actions  

Yes ... we'd lose 3 ...
We would go 60-3 in games we led after 5
25-20 in games that were tied
14-40 in games where we were behind ...

Leaving us at 99-63 overall ...

Not that those numbers aren't ridiculous (both in terms of extremes and probability) but there really could be something to that.

Plus, relievers tend not to get as long of deals as other players and, barring serious injury, they would both always be very tradeable ...

Monkeyball Note: if the A's postgame radio host was an evil supervillain, his official Evil Supervillain Laugh would be "Buan-ha-ha-ha-ha!!!")

by devo on Oct 28, 2005 8:56 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'm not so sure
We have the following players under contract for next year already:  

C  Kendall, Melhuse (2)
1B Johnson (1)
2B Ellis, Scutaro (2)
3B Chavez, Ginter (2)
SS Crosby (1)
LF Payton, Kielty (2)
CF Kotsay (1)
RF Swisher, Thomas (2)
DH _____

SP Harden, Zito, Haren, Blanton, Saarloos (5)
RP Street, Duke, Calero, Kennedy, Cruz, ____ (5)

Our total payroll committed to those 23 players is somwhere between $51M and $54M.  

We can get Hillenbrand for around $4.5M - $5.0M for 2006 (he's in his last arbitration year, and he made $3.87M last year, meaning we'd only be committed to him for one year).  

We could sign Guardado to a two-year deal at around $5.0M per year (or we could offer him three years of security at a lower per-year value -- 3-yrs, $12M).  I don't see why Guardado wouldn't accept a reduced roll.  The guy's not in line to break any career saves records.  He's 35 years old, and he's still effective, but he might be looking to pull a Terry Steinbach (i.e., spend the last few years of his career close to home).  And, the reason that people generally shy away from "reduced rolls" is the corresponding reduced paycheck.  Here, we could offer Guardado right around his market value (~$5M per year).  As long as he's not making any less money, what does he care about what roll he's in?  

In all, adding Hillenbrand and Guardado puts us right around $62.0M - $64.0M total payroll.  In other words, I don't think you're right that if Guardado "thinks he can get more than his player option, the A's can't hit him."  We can get him.  

Are these the best players we could possibly get?  No.  Would they help our team?  Yes.  

Look, I'm willing to admit that Hillenbrand is a basically a slightly-better-than-average right-handed hitter.  But, he is extremely consistent.  Over the last five years, his AVG has been between .290 and .310 four times (the only year he was outside of that range was an injury year).  Over that same span, his OPS has been between .778 and .812 all five years.  Last year he had a better-than-.800 OPS with runners on and a .800 OPS with RISP.  His batting average doesn't fluctuate throughout the season.  In other words, he would add something to our lineup that we simply do not have:  A guy who we could put in our 3-6 hole in the lineup who isn't prone to ridiculous streaks like Chavez.  Hillenbrand's not going to hit 30 bombs, I know.  He's also not going to go two months hitting .200 (like some of the clowns we root for right now).  I think people underestimate the value of consistency.  Guys like Dunn and Chavez might put up better year-end stats than Hillenbrand, but those guys also tend to disappear for a month at a time, leaving their teams without their "big bat" for long stretches.  

As for Guardado, I'd argue he's the second-best lefty on the market.  Let the big boys battle over BJ Ryan, they can have him.  I say we make a quick move to grab Guardado... having to face Duke, Guardado and Street in the 8th and 9th innings would be nasty.  

by Uncle Charlie on Oct 28, 2005 9:13 AM PDT reply actions  

One comment
Guardado is not the 2nd best lefty on the market. He may or may not be the 3rd best but he's behind Billy Wagner and BJ Ryan.

by grover on Oct 28, 2005 9:17 AM PDT up reply actions  

Not all of them ...
Ellis, Melhuse, Kielty, Cruz, Kennedy and Calero are arbitration eligible and Calero and Ellis are the only ones who're a lock to be back.

Swisher, Thomas, Johnson, Street and Blanton aren't technically under contract either.

Monkeyball Note: if the A's postgame radio host was an evil supervillain, his official Evil Supervillain Laugh would be "Buan-ha-ha-ha-ha!!!")

by devo on Oct 28, 2005 9:35 AM PDT up reply actions  

Ah yes...
... I forgot about Wagner.  You're completely right.  But that's even better for us.  That means less leverage for Guardado and it means that the dogfight over Guardado might be a little less intense (while everyone else fights over Wagner and Ryan, the fight over Guardado might have fewer participants).  

by Uncle Charlie on Oct 28, 2005 9:21 AM PDT reply actions  

Yeah
I think Everyday Eddie would be our best bet because Billy Wagner will go to someone who wants to spend way too much money and B.J. Ryan will be right behind him. I like Guardado and if you take away the fact that the A's have owned him then it all works out. I can see him playing for the A's being a local and all, plus the A's are gonna give him a chance to seriously contend.

Hillenbrand is alright but isn't Reggie Sanders also going to be a free agent this fall? He could be part of our rotating outfield to keep everyone fresh and I have always been a fan of his play.

by mrod on Oct 28, 2005 9:28 AM PDT reply actions  

Yeah
I've always liked Reggie Sanders too.  He's a "gamer."  He always hits for decent power (his SLG over the last five years has been .549/.455/.567/.482/.546).  He's still a great athlete for his age.  

Only issue with Sanders is his injury history.  He's 38 years old next year, and he hasn't played over 140 games in any of the last five years (he only played 93 in 2005).  So, I'd be a little more worried Sanders missing time than I would with Hillenbrand, but I like the idea.  

Sanders also always seems to sign obscenely low-$$$ contracts for the numbers he puts up.  The fact that a guy like Darren Driefort has made $55M over the last five years, and Reggie Sanders has made just over $10M, tells me that there is something very wrong in the world.  

by Uncle Charlie on Oct 28, 2005 9:34 AM PDT reply actions  

Hmm... yeah...
... but it doesn't really matter right?  

If we don't sign or offer arbitration to...
... Melhuse, we'll find another cheap backup catcher.  
... Kielty, we'll bring up a minor-leaguer who has a good spring.  
... Cruz, we'll bring up a minor-leaguer (although I'd be surprised if we let Cruz go -- he only made $0.6M this year and he's not due a big increase since he was in AAA for most of the year).  
... Kennedy, we'll bring up Rheinecker.  

As for Swisher, Thomas, Johnson, Street and Blanton, they're "under contract" for all intents and purposes.  

by Uncle Charlie on Oct 28, 2005 9:49 AM PDT reply actions  

Talent-wise it's not all that big of a deal
Money-wise, Melhuse is liable to cost us an extra 3-500k, Kielty about 750k, Cruz 300-400k, and Kennedy 2m

so, by going with the cheaper alternatives, we'd save $3.5m-$4m ...

And, yes, the rookies aren't going anywhere, they just "technically" are not under contract.

Monkeyball Note: if the A's postgame radio host was an evil supervillain, his official Evil Supervillain Laugh would be "Buan-ha-ha-ha-ha!!!")

by devo on Oct 28, 2005 10:17 AM PDT up reply actions  

I'II repeat it again,
On numerous occasions throughout last year JP raved about Hillenbrand, stated he wouldn't trade him at the deadline or during the off season and wanted to sign him long term.

Therefore, Hillenbrand ain't wearing the G and G next year or for maybe years to come.

End of story.

by bigelephant on Oct 28, 2005 10:05 AM PDT reply actions  

Right...
... because Beane never raved about Tim Hudson.  

by Uncle Charlie on Oct 28, 2005 10:07 AM PDT reply actions  

Not sure what that means, but
JP needs to win NOW in Toronto. Of course any assest is tradable. If hudson can be traded, well... The point is Hillenbrand is relatively cheap and is a good hitter in Toronto (SLG and OPS is higher at home than on RD). So I think you're reaching on this one. Plus, why "Every-Day-Freddy"? Beane isn't going to spend that kind of scratch on a player like Freddy to set-up Street.

Sorry, this whole idea ain't flyin'.

by bigelephant on Oct 28, 2005 10:17 AM PDT reply actions  

Hillenbrand
Maybe JP doesn't want to deal Hillenbrand, but what is he going to do with his infield?  

1B:  Hinske is signed through 2007.  
2B:  Hudson is just entering his first year of arbitration (meaning he's there through 2008).  
3B:  Koskie is signed through 2007.
SS:  Adams is just entering his 2nd-year (meaning he's there through 2010).  
PLUS:  He's got Aaron Hill, who's ready to step into the lineup right now.  

He can't deal Hinske or Koskie.  So he's basically stuck with Hillenbrand as a DH.  That might be fine with him, but I can't picture JP saying "no thanks" if we offered him a good enough package, and I certainly can't see a "moneyball" GM signing a DH to a multi-year, $6M+ per year deal.  Does he really want to sign Hillenbrand to a long-term deal worth that much when he already has a 1B and a 3B signed through 2007?  I'm not sure.  

Maybe he was just saying he planned to sign him long-term in order to make him look untouchable, i.e., to see if people would offer a little more for him.  People say all kinds of crazy shit when they are bargaining.  

by Uncle Charlie on Oct 28, 2005 10:18 AM PDT reply actions  

He might trade Hudson
I read that somewhere.  Hudson will get a handsome raise in arbitration, and that would open up the spot for Hill they need.
A Beane in the hand is worth $60M in payroll

by jeepers on Oct 28, 2005 10:46 AM PDT up reply actions  

Big El
You may be right.  Guys who depend on hits and AVG for their production tend to do better on turf (Toronto) than on grass (Oakland), meaning Hillenbrand probably becomes a .280-.290 hitter in Oakland rather than a .290-.310 hitter.  

That said, I still think he brings something to this team that we don't have... an old-fashion hitter.  A guy who hits singles and doubles, moves people around the bases and puts pressure on the pitcher.  I've read "Moneyball," I've seen the way Beane's schemes work, and I think there is value in getting on base.  I also think that depending so heavily on walks for run production is ill-advised.  

First of all, come playoff time, you face better pitchers.  Better pitchers equals better K:BB ratio, fewer mistakes.  We depend on mistakes for runs, which is one reason that fail in the playoffs.  

Second of all, there is something mentally uplifting about getting a hit off a pitcher as opposed to getting on via walk.  You get a hit, you beat that pitcher.  You walk, that pitcher beat himself.  I want a guy on our team who swings the freaking bat...  Payton provided some of that this year, although by the end of the season he was starting to look a little too much like Juan Samuel for my liking (in other words, he was swinging at EVERYTHING).  

by Uncle Charlie on Oct 28, 2005 10:30 AM PDT reply actions  

agreed charlie,
I've always admired Hillenbrands approach at the plate. The player JP would to move is Henski. That was a misstep on JP's part. I think you'II see JP "give away" Henski with cash and move Hillenbrand over to 1st.

by bigelephant on Oct 28, 2005 10:34 AM PDT up reply actions  

You may be right
I'm sure JP would prefer to deal Hinske.  And, he may be willing to, as you say, basically give him away for free (just so that he can move Hillenbrand to 1B).  

But, if he can't move him, we should be prepared to make a move.  

by Uncle Charlie on Oct 28, 2005 10:37 AM PDT reply actions  

re Guardado,
it should be noted that Every Day Eddie was Beane's first choice to replace Foulke when Foulke jilted the A's. Latroy Hawkins was Beane's second choice, and Rhodes his third (and last) choice. Rhodes was only signed because the incumbent, and two preferred back ups, all turned the A's down for greener (but not greener and golder) pastures.

Guardado expressed regret soon after signing with Seattle (I'm not sure exactly why that relationship went sour so fast). The Stockton native grew up an A's fan and it wouldn't be a shock, nor a bad move at all, if Beane pursued him this Winter. Could be a win-win situation for the final good years of Guardado's career.

Nico

by Nico on Oct 28, 2005 5:40 PM PDT reply actions  

Hope the market is right
I believe this would be a significant upgrade for the bullpen.  And he seemed like a nice guy.  Didn't someone post a great post about getting his autograph for her boss at a game this year?
Thomas Walker

by Thomas Walker on Oct 28, 2005 5:55 PM PDT up reply actions  

I think I remember reading somewhere
that Tom Gordon was in that mix too, and the Yankees acquired him specifically to stop him from coming here...

..or maybe that was just one of those crazy Onion articles..

by oblique on Oct 28, 2005 6:45 PM PDT up reply actions  

I hope so
Hillendbrand and Eddie G. seem like longshots but anything can happen.
You tried your best and you failed miserably. The lesson is 'never try'.-Homer Simpson

by doublehustle22 on Oct 28, 2005 6:16 PM PDT reply actions  

Longshots
Guardado's no more of a longshot than any other free agent.  All it takes is Beane opening up Lew Wolff's wallet and saying: "Eddie, here's your chance to play for the team you rooted for growing up."  

He's 35 or 36 years old already, so it's not like he's going to be asking for a 4- or 5-year deal...  Two or three years at $4-6M per year should get him.  I'm willing to make that kind of commitment to a guy who doesn't depend on a 97-mph fastball to be effective (especially since a lot of our young players' salaries don't get into the escalation stage until 2007 or 2008).  

As for Hillenbrand, that might be a tougher get.  Beane might have to give up a high-level prospect to get him if JP Ricc is a hard-ass.  Of course, Beane could walk away from the table, leaving JP Ricc with six infielders to fill five spots (1B, 2B, SS, 3B, DH), in which case JP might soften his stance.  

With Hillenbrand, it all depends what JP Ricc is asking for...  If it's not going to kill us long-term, I say we get him.  He's a better option than Criag Wilson in my mind because he's consistent.  He's more attainable than Dunn, Konerko or Preston Wilson (Wilson's going to ask for a contract out of our price range, whereas Hillenbrand is still under arbitration for one more year).  I haven't seen a lot of other options out there.  Reggie Sanders might be a possibility, but he's more of a threat to spend time on the DL than Hillenbrand.  The rest of the free-agent pool is drier than the Mojave Desert.  

by Uncle Charlie on Oct 28, 2005 6:34 PM PDT reply actions  

Getting Guardado
The only shot the A's have at signing Eddie is if they go after him hard the first week of free agency. They have to sign him while most teams are chasing Wagner and Ryan, once those two are off the market the teams that missed out will drive up the bidding for Guardado beyond what the A's can afford.

by grover on Oct 28, 2005 11:36 PM PDT up reply actions  

It may be easier than you think
In Eddies contract with Seattle he had a clause which included a limited NTC allowing Guardado to block deals to 10 clubs, including Boston & both New York teams.  You got to like a guy that refuses to play for Boston or NY.  That also means that he would only sign with 20 of the 30 ML teams.  That should increase the odds in our favor.  

That being said, he is probably still too expensive.  

by Hang Man on Oct 29, 2005 11:20 AM PDT up reply actions  

One point
I want to argue is the notion that the A's should get Hillenbrand because they don't have a Hillenbrand type in their lineup, i.e. a guy whose OBP comes largely from hits, etc. Payton is exactly like that, so you would have to want two "low walk, high hit" guys balancing out your take-and-rakers (Johnson, Swisher, etc.). The A's may not want two of those guys dragging down the OBP in the middle of the lineup.
Nico

by Nico on Oct 28, 2005 7:07 PM PDT reply actions  

Kotsay is like that, too
He's swinging the bat first and foremost whenever he goes to the plate.
A Beane in the hand is worth $60M in payroll

by jeepers on Oct 28, 2005 10:24 PM PDT up reply actions  

hillenbrand
if that's the best we can do, then i'm scared, especially in the #3 hole. i wouldn't mind him hitting #7, but he's not a #3 hitter
"You might as well not even look for it because you're not going to hit it." -Alex Rodriguez on Barry Zito's curveball.

by The Game on Oct 28, 2005 10:26 PM PDT reply actions  

I like both ideas
I like the idea of Hillenbrand hitting fifth in that lineup.

Ellis
Kotsay
Crosby
Chavez
Hillenbrand
Johnson
Payton
Swisher
Kendall

RIP Bill King "By the Beard of Zeus!" "I don't know if you heard me counting. I did over a thousand"

by ohad on Oct 29, 2005 4:07 AM PDT reply actions  

Hatte for Hille
So basically that's just getting rid of Hatteberg and replacing him with Hillenbrand.  Given that penciling Haren into the lineup for Hatteberg might actually be an improvement, it's hard to say this lineup would score less than 2005's.  But one way that Hillenbrand would not be an improvement is his GIDP -- he finished one GIDP behind Hatteberg for 6th in the AL last year (22), and is almost guaranteed to ground into 20 DPs a year with regular playing time.

I've never really like Hillenbrand that much -- I'm suspicious of hackers in hitters' parks coming to play in the Coliseum.  But if he's cheap, I could live with it.

"And Julio Franco is batting right-handed!" -- Wayne Hagin, A's radio play-by-play, mid-80s

by Nick on Oct 29, 2005 4:35 AM PDT up reply actions  

But it might be worth
signing him just to be able to call him "Hille!"
Nico

by Nico on Oct 29, 2005 10:43 AM PDT reply actions  

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