Looking overseas for the answers.

by ConditionOakland on Oct 11, 2005 8:57 PM PDT

Hey everyone.

I have been thinking lately.
There have been a number of posts about possible trades, free agent pick ups, etc etc, to help address our problems (mostly our lack of right handed power) and I was wondering...
is anyone on the market worth paying for?
Is anyone on the block worth our young staff?

And I came to the idea that, really, there is a simple answer to this, well, not so simple.

Overseas baseball.
Japan. Korea. Taiwan. (And I still wait for a chinese player... =()

But anyways, I think we touched on this subject before-- how Yabu effectively filled a spot in our lineup without breaking the bank. Any other choice would have been atleast 3 or 4 times more in $$.
It follows the basic $$$ball theory-- tapping an undervalued market.

I just wanted to know what you guys thought about this, and if you think its worth the chance, to sign a developing asian player, or an over the hill player, and throwing them in the starting lineup (or not).

How did you guys feel about Yabu?
He didnt break the bank. He did his job well (well, clean up role...)
He brought a new fan base to the team (AZN pride, well I know mine was, was soaring for awhile).

Look at Taguchi, Otsuka, Iguchi-- these players went under the radar, and for not as much as marqee players, and have put up outstanding numbers. (It should be noted that this market is also very risky, considering KAZMAT, Mac Suzuki, etc).

Anyways, thoughts, please.
I'll try to post some stats of overseas players interested in coming to the US (assuming they have finished their mandatory 8 years in the NPB).

Image hosted by Photobucket.com "And the sun sets at the Oakland Coliseum, as does another season." Sorry... just wanted to add this.

Poll

Would you be willing to risk it?

Yes! Now... who is the DURAZO OF JAPAN!? Let

13 votes

No! Not worth it, in $$$ and time.

2 votes

If it's for the right price.

18 votes

I really don't know. (???)

4 votes

37 votes | Poll has closed

Tweet Comment 24 comments | 0 recs |

Do you like this story?

Comments

One problem is the posting system

The posting system requires teams to dish out a huge amount of money even for negotiating rights, so this often turns out to be an overvalued market instead of an undervalued one - even when the talent coming from Japan, Korea, etc consists of sometimes elite players.

Fearing Mecir since 2000.

by salb918 on Oct 11, 2005 9:18 PM PDT reply actions

The posting system...

I've come to believe does not come into effect after 8 years of service to the NPB.
So either we have to catch them before or after they start and have served.
If there was no posting system...
I think there would be atleast 2 or 3 japanese players per team.

Oakland! Yes!

by ConditionOakland on Oct 11, 2005 9:21 PM PDT up reply actions

Thanks for the correction

Fearing Mecir since 2000.

by salb918 on Oct 11, 2005 9:31 PM PDT up reply actions

I would love to see more foreign players

but i don't know how undervalued they are. Latin players are dominating MLB (not that that's a bad thing so don't mistake me for Kreuger) and all 30 teams have scouts looking for the next Tejada, Guerrero, Santana, etc. Japanese baseball is admittedly having less of impact but they are much harder to convince to come to the US. The Japanese leagues pay reasonably and it is a big transition to the US, which is pretty much the opposite for Latin leagues. Many Japanese players who do want to play major league baseball in the US, want to play for a specific team (Matsui wanted the Yanks, Ichiro the Mariners becausee of Sasaki and the owner was Japanese, even Yabu wanted to come to a team that specifically had no other Japanese players). I agree with the concept of bringing in Asian and Latin players as they are proving themselves in MLB but I'm sure there are major league scouts on every player who could succeed in MLB and wants to come here.

It will be fun to watch the Baseball World Classic this yr. Any predictions? My guess is the US and the DR will be in the finals (but Venezuela, Cuba, and Japan will be very competitive).

"The difference between Jose Canseco and Kobe Bryant is that Kobe doesn't believe in giving his teammates any shots." -Jay Leno

by vignette17 on Oct 11, 2005 9:28 PM PDT reply actions

I'd like to see

more scouting of young Asian players. If we wait until they are superstars, they tend to be overvalued. Ichiro and Matsui have been great--but others (like Kaz and Takatsu) haven't. And only the rich teams can afford them anyway. Yabu was within the A's range--but I'd hesitate to say he was worth $1 million.

At the risk of sounding Ameri-centric (blech), I'm just not sure if the Japanese leagues are really at the level of MLB. Mostly because the talent pool is smaller. If they came over here earlier---would they develop into better players because the competition is stronger? Of course, I've never seen Japanese baseball, so I'm not speaking from a great knowledge base.

by Alien @ Athletics Nation on Oct 11, 2005 9:57 PM PDT reply actions

The Japanese leagues

are pretty much AAA(A) leagues: not quite the majors, about the level of AAA ball, but exceeding it by a bit (I believe)

I believe Ichiro would be a first-ballot HoF-er if he came here after college (or high school?)

Of course, he might STILL be.

*Don't tell the Raiders, either. Just leave Mt Davis at the site, with a note: "We believe this is yours, Al. Enjoy! - AN"* - calgbear

by Jjjsixsix on Oct 11, 2005 10:06 PM PDT up reply actions

actaully...

why wouldn't he?
First japanese position player.
Broke Sisler's record.
200+ 5 straight seasons.
One of the fastest players to reach 1,000.

It would be a shame.
And personally, I think it would be a matter of him not being a pure bred MLB player...

Anyways, that's a different issue.

So... Japanese ball is.... AAAA ball?
I would say also that, yes, of course, NPB isn't the caliber that the MLB is, but then again...
it's not the same game. At all.
The culture, the atmosphere, the tradition, it's so different in so many ways-- why do you think so many MLB players fail in japan?

Japanese teams bunt in the first inning.
Team work ethic is more important than counting your HR count.

But then again, that's why so many players from Japan have trouble adjusting to the MLB lifestyle...

Oakland! Yes!

by ConditionOakland on Oct 11, 2005 10:45 PM PDT up reply actions

Yabu

No he didnt break the bank, but still wasnt what the A's were hoping for. He got paid 1 million this year for work that couldve been done better by someone from the rivercats. He has a 1.5 million team option that I highly doubt the A's will pickup.

I would like to see more scouting done in Asia as well but its a different ballgame than the Dominican Republic and other countries in Latin America. Many of those countries are impoverished and kids flock to the baseball acadamies. Their goal is to play in America and achieve everything that they couldnt in their home country. Japan is completely different especially because they have their own established baseball league in which players can make a substantial living off of.

by pickinmachine on Oct 11, 2005 11:11 PM PDT reply actions

Really....

I don't think the A's gave Yabu anything even CLOSE to a chance to prove himself.
He was stuck in the clean-up role, and after spending his ENTIRE career as a starter (with some relief efforts when he got injured), this was a major transition.
The A's NEVER gave him a chance to start.
Personally, I trusted Yabu WAY MORE than I ever have Kennedy, and I really do think if he would have started, maybe we would have been in a different position than we are now in.

YABU: You're always eating cheese. ...Is cheese good for you? . FISCHER: IT'S BETTER THAN SUSHI!!!

by ConditionOakland on Oct 11, 2005 11:23 PM PDT up reply actions

Oh cmon

You think that Yabu wouldve saved the A's? True he never got a chance to start, but what did he do to prove that he deserved a shot. He has no real future with the A's. Guy is friggin 36-37 yrs old with mediocre numbers even in Japan recently.

I never trusted either of them but at least Kennedy has a lot more going for him and could be packaged in a deal at some point, or could thrive in the A's bullpen next year.

Why should he get a chance, what were you expecting?

by pickinmachine on Oct 11, 2005 11:30 PM PDT up reply actions

I don't think...

Yabu would have saved the A's.
I was ahead of myself on that one.

I just think he was wasted.
The A's just didn't even see how far their $1 mil could go, and ended up just using their investment to its least amount of potential.

YABU: You're always eating cheese. ...Is cheese good for you? . FISCHER: IT'S BETTER THAN SUSHI!!!

by ConditionOakland on Oct 12, 2005 1:25 AM PDT up reply actions

Yabu was given a chance in ST

He had the same oppurtunity as Saarloos. I don't think he would have helped us much though he might have gotten a nod in May over Glynn and Etherton.

"The difference between Jose Canseco and Kobe Bryant is that Kobe doesn't believe in giving his teammates any shots." -Jay Leno

by vignette17 on Oct 11, 2005 11:42 PM PDT up reply actions

Personally...

I feel Yabu would have had to knock the socks off the coachs to be even given a THOUGHT of starting.
I'm not saying he would have been some all-star caliber pitcher, but Sarloos and the others had a HUGE advantage for just being American.
But its plain and simple...
He would have had to prove himself, in a big way.
And he didn't.
I'm just really disapointed that he never got a chance to start-- he was signed with ONLY this year in mind, as a temp player, atleast he could have possibly helped us out now, instead of sending Kennedy out there with the DIVISION on the line, thinking we can trade him next year.

YABU: You're always eating cheese. ...Is cheese good for you? . FISCHER: IT'S BETTER THAN SUSHI!!!

by ConditionOakland on Oct 12, 2005 1:30 AM PDT up reply actions

Leave no stone unturned........

I'm sure the A's do actively scout around the world. As for Yabu he brought something to the A's ............ a whole new fan base. Particularly in the early season whole groups of tourists (assuming tourists due to the leader/guide/interpreter with each group) could be seen wondering around the Colesium with full bags of A's gear. How cool was that? New fans who put their money where their mouth was!
In Yabu's playing defense, I suspect his reliable, though not spectacular, career performance was there for insurance if one of the youngsters wasn't ready or the real thing.
Is there another Suzuki in Japan right now? As sure as there is another A-Rod in Jr. High somewhere in the hinterland or another flame throwing lefty who just got his first glove from the only guy on the island who had one to spare. I bet one of them could be had cheap too. The dilegent scout will never be unemployed.

Barry and the "Intangibles"

by Duke of left field on Oct 12, 2005 12:04 AM PDT reply actions

I remember...

My friend bought like 5 Yabu jerseys, some A's pro-fit hats, and some other odds and ends just to send back to japan to his family and friends (It was like, $175+).
Yabu was on the Hanshin Tigers, who are known for their EXTREMELY LOYAL AND INSANE fanbase. I know every Tigers fan was glued to their computer, looking for Yabu news when he came over.

YABU: You're always eating cheese. ...Is cheese good for you? . FISCHER: IT'S BETTER THAN SUSHI!!!

by ConditionOakland on Oct 12, 2005 1:33 AM PDT up reply actions

Ehh

Yabu wasn't particularly effective. The only guys that the A's can afford overseas are players like Yabu... role players, mop-up men, utility men, etc. There's a chance we might be able to find a decent bullpen arm, but neither Otsuka or Takatsu (the main examples) have been able to maintain their performance from last season. Anyone suspected of being able to make any sort of consistent impact (Nomo, Ichiro, Hideki and Kaz Matsui, etc.) is likely to be at the center of a bidding war by the big market clubs.

The only real way to take advantage of the talent overseas is getting the players before they sign with native clubs... and I don't think I've ever heard of a Japanese player doing that (and they clearly have the strongest talent pool). And even then, the three players I can think of in that situation are Chien-Mien Wang, Byung-hyun Kim, Hee-Seop Choi, and that's about it. Not exactly a marquee list.

by dchu on Oct 12, 2005 11:04 AM PDT reply actions

But they are Korean

I'd really like to see some effort to scout young Japanese players

by Alien @ Athletics Nation on Oct 12, 2005 11:06 AM PDT up reply actions

wang is taiwanese...

or republic of china-ese, for those of you who understand. but we're not gunna go into politics of the island of taiwan here.

*Don't tell the Raiders, either. Just leave Mt Davis at the site, with a note: "We believe this is yours, Al. Enjoy! - AN"* - calgbear

by Jjjsixsix on Oct 12, 2005 4:01 PM PDT up reply actions

yeah...

wang (WONG) is taiwanese.
I dont think there has been a Chinese player, EVER, in the MLB.

YABU: You're always eating cheese. ...Is cheese good for you? . FISCHER: IT'S BETTER THAN SUSHI!!!

by ConditionOakland on Oct 12, 2005 8:16 PM PDT up reply actions

fifty years from now

people will find that statement hard to believe...the world is flattening, after all

Rock over London, Rock on Oakland. Wheaties: It's the Breakfast of Champions.

by Cutthemullet on Oct 12, 2005 9:19 PM PDT up reply actions

referring to the absense of Chinese from MLB

not Wang's heritage

Rock over London, Rock on Oakland. Wheaties: It's the Breakfast of Champions.

by Cutthemullet on Oct 12, 2005 9:20 PM PDT up reply actions

*absence

damn, can't even blame that error on having been partaking in one of crazy Yom Kippur parties that somehow are occupying many people I know (all Gentiles, by the way)

Rock over London, Rock on Oakland. Wheaties: It's the Breakfast of Champions.

by Cutthemullet on Oct 12, 2005 9:23 PM PDT up reply actions

China has just now...

started a baseball team.

It's basically been S.Korea, Japan, ROC for the last (long time) (30 years?)

My grandfather tells tales of waking up at 2 to watch the Taiwan LL team in Williamsport... and that's some 20-30 years ago.

*Don't tell the Raiders, either. Just leave Mt Davis at the site, with a note: "We believe this is yours, Al. Enjoy! - AN"* - calgbear

by Jjjsixsix on Oct 13, 2005 9:50 PM PDT up reply actions

here's one...not for the A's

Daisuke Matsuzaka. Lookout Landing, the SportsBlog that is probably most worthy of reading after AN, has been eagerly awaiting the stateside arrival of this Japanese pitcher, sounds like he's going to be the most-hyped Asian pitcher since Nomo-mania. As such, he's not an option for the A's, but could push either the Mariners or the Yankees over the top as the most closely monitored team in Japan.

Rock over London, Rock on Oakland. Wheaties: It's the Breakfast of Champions.

by Cutthemullet on Oct 12, 2005 12:58 PM PDT reply actions